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A02198 An aunsvver to George Giffords pretended defence of read prayers and devised leitourgies with the vngodly cauils and vvicked sclanders comprised in the first part of his book entituled, A short treatise against the Donatists of England. By Iohn Greenwood Christs poore afflicted prisoner in the Fleete at London, for the trueth of the gospel. Greenwood, John, d. 1593.; Johnson, Francis, 1562-1618. 1603 (1603) STC 12340; ESTC S103420 74,892 78

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one against the other For whiles the spirit striueth against sinne and raigneth in vs thoughe the fleshe rebell and cause vs to sinne seauen times a daye yet are we not ouercome of sinne so to remayne in bondage to sinne that it should contynue to reigne in vs as you may see in the same chapter Rom. 7.5.6 Where you alleage then that Paul saw a lawe in his members which did lead him captiue vnto sinne you do falsifie the text for he saith leading me captiue and not did leade etc. for ther was a stronger man or a stronger then man that suffered not the lawe of his members to reigne for saith he I my self in my minde serue the law of God but in the flesh the law of sinne so that the whole man could not be said to serue sinne But say you afterward as concerning then the inner man we may be said to serue the lawe of God and thervpon be called the free seruantes of Christ notwithstanding this corruption of sinne in the flesh So the whole man by reasō of our imperfectnes may be said to be the servants of sinne No yt is not true for the whole man is called after the part thath hat greather rule in vs as if the fleshe rule in vs we are the servaunts of sinne and ledd by Satan at his pleasure but if the Spirit rule in vs we are the seruauntes of God Sonnes of God Sainctes of God Citizens of Ierusalem holie and free people Kinges and Priests not that we are perfect or sinne not but that sinne reygneth not in vs but the spirit wherby we suppresse sinne reprove sinne striue against sinne subdue sinne and though we fall seuen times yet we rise againe by repentance and serue not sinne Rightly therfore did I saye that no man can serve two masters for his servantes we are to whom we gyue ● our selues as seruants to obey whether yt be of sinne vnto death or of obedience vnto righteousnes Rom. 6.16.18 being made free from sinne we are made the servantes of righteousnes So that the regenerat man or he that is by outward profession the servant of Christ cannot be called the servant of sinne by reason of the co●●uption of the old man and dregges of sinne neither can he that standeth in bōdage to anie sinne and giueth himself ouer to yt be called in that estate the servant of Christ till he repent but the servant of sinne 2. Pet. 2.19 Therfore you must recant your false interpretation of Paul in the 7. to the Rom. and cease your blasphemous raylings in calling the trueth of God the rocke of Brownisme And consider the height of your sinne by concluding a bondage vnto sinne of the wholeman for the corruptions of the fleshe which through the worke of the Spirit is daylie subdued though never vtterly rooted out of our earthlie members and from the committing sinne through frayltie an obstinate professed bondage to the false Church false gouernment false ministerie etc. which is plainly the marck of the Beast to whom with outward obedience they bowe downe and stand servants in his kingdome Revel 14.9.11.12 As for the 4. of the Galat. 26. where the Apostle saith Ierusalem which is aboue is free with her Children yo udurst not open yt nor expound yt but blaspheame raile and sclander as though we should pleade for such a freedome as should detract from Magistrates lawfull aucthorities from having Gods ordinances established by commaundement vpon the Church etc. yea that we should hold Anabaptisticall freedome as though we had power not to committ or consent vnto sinne wheras we haue euerie where by practise and protestation by word and writing testified to our Souereigne Prince and to all men the contrary But Satan that old accuser and detracter of Gods children to deceaue the world sendeth out such lyinge spirites to deface the trueth We with all subiection and willinge obedience to our souereigne Prince teach all men their obedience to the higher powers Subiectes to Magistrates Flocke to Ouerseers children to Parētes wines to their husbands servantes to their Masters etc. in all things in the Lorde and if they commaund vs anie thing contrary to the lawe of God we then patientlie suffer without resistance or rebellious thaughtes The freedome then we haue to speake of here which Christ hath purchased for vs is first that triumphe ouer Hell Deathe ād damnatiō through the merites of Christ apprehended by faith wayted for in hope Rom. 8. Secondly that because we were sonnes by election he giueth vs the spirit of adoption and sanctification wherebie we mortifie the fleshe have reigne and dominion ouer sinne that yt shall never reigne in vs more vnto condemnation repenting daylie our trespasses and crauing pardon for our hidden sinnes and secret faultes Thirdly we are throughe the same spirit and worde of trueth deliuered from all subiection of Antichist of the false Church false ministerie false gouernment etc. And. they that haue not this freedome are not by outward profession the seruauntes of Christ. Furder we haue freedome from all traditions of men that seing we are bought with a pryce we are no longer seruants of men to be in bondage to anie beggerly rudimentes or devises of mē but in all peaceable maner to worship and serve God within the limites of our callings according to the word of God as yt is reuealed vnto vs We haue freedome to speake the trueth with all boldnes though all men should inhibite vs we would not haue the doctrine limited stinted bought and sold for Iewishe tythes or mercenarie stipendes We have freedome to seperate from such false Prophetts as your self to come out of Babel etc. And in the true Church to reproue and withstand anie sinne or traditions of mē in due order only to be guided and gouerned by Christes lawes and ordināces In all this I trust you shall not find anie Anabaptistrie in the freedome we professe this is the truth of the Gospell wherbie we are made free Thus then we still affirme that they which stand in open knowen bondage to sinne are the seruants of sinne and not of CHRIST till they repent by outward profession Furder that allwhich stand members of your parish assemblies stand not members of CHRIST by outward profession but in bondage to a false and Antichristian ministery gouernment worship etc. and the bond woeman and her sonne must be cast out Furder for all liturgies and other devises of mē besides the canonicall Scriptures and liuely graces of his Spirit we hold they ought not to be brought into the publique assemblies nor imposed vpon mens consciences But if anie will write such or reade such let yt be for their private vse as all other mens writings we despise not any directions by word or writing that may furder vs anie way to the practize of GODS ordinances yet may they nether be imposed vpon mens consciences not be made a part of GODS worship The Lorde therfore that hath thus far
fall into any sinne except the sinne against the holye GHOST yet bee restored by repentance GODS grace so far abounding alwayes considered as then I noted that obstinacye in anye sinne make them to vs the servants of sinne whiles they so remayned not speaking this to giue leaue or incouragement to presume in the least or first step of sinne lest GOD leaue them to themselves but to giue them hope if they returne that haue so fallen hee excepteth generally against all presumptuous sinne saying of frailty Gods childrē may fall but of presumption hee maketh great doubt for anye so sinning to bee renued by repentance for it is spokē of the Maranatha to bee pronounced in this life to none but that bee in that sinne against the holye Ghost and here to fill his paper as his common shift is when hee can neither affirme nor denye hee putteth me to newe questions You must saith hee declare howe filthye incest is not sinne against the holye GHOST nor if a man kill his Father or Mother or children nor witchcraft nor familiarity with Spirits is not your meaning that the regenerate man may of presumption and obstinacy commit these If Maister Giffard shoulde thus vnderstande the worde may hee is in the same fault to say the regenerate may sinne of frailty And I answere furder hee coulde vnderstand the worde may otherwise if as in all his writinges hee caryed not this minde to take all in euil part to quarrell hee coulde have vnderstood it thus that God suffereth of his elect to fall into such sinne yet hee is able to reduce them by repentance and hath made promise to receive them iff they retourne and not haue cauilled in this maner in such thinges the horrour in the verye naming of which sinnes shaketh the flesh and bones of the godlye to heare or behold so that his drift is but to cast in a litle wormewood to deface the truth deliuered Therefore I will onlye prooue the generall doctrine before affirmed and for these perticulars let him that taketh pleasure in raking in them being sinnes not once to bee named amongst GODS children answere himself And much better might hee have put his question thus Whither wilfullye committing of sacriledge and presumptuous continuing to enchant in a false ministery with Iannes and Iambres resistinge the truth persecutinge the light against their knowledge bee not within the compasse of that sinne against the holye Ghost That GODS elect after regeneration doe fall into presumptuous sinne and for a time persist in obstinate sinne and may bee restored by repentance I thus prooue Manie of GODS children may bee excommunicat and vpon the repentance bee receiued againe as the incestuous person 1. Cor. 5. therefore do for a time remayne in obstinate sinne Againe euerie sinne is to bee prayed for but that one sinne against the holye Ghost 1. Iohn 5.16 Therfore presumptuous sinne is committed of GODS elect after regeneration That all presumptuous sinne is not sinne against the holy GHOST wee shall see by the discription of that sinne Hebr. 6. and 10. where there is dispyting of the Spirit accompting the blood of IESUS an vnholy thinge persecuting the light they haue sometimes tasted of and such like notes which are degrees further then presumption for there is presumption of ignorance of rashnes of hope of mercy and many times do the Prophets charge the people with rebellion against GOD so that all presumption cannot have the curse maranatha pronounced vpon it or the persons not to bee prayed for But sure I grant that presumption is neere to that sinne and there cannot bee that high sinue without presumption But now if all sinne but sinne of frayltie were vnpardonable your Clergie were in a wofull case that thus maynely resist the truth and persecute GODS servants Neither is this doctrine anye way contrarie to that I delyvered namelye that the regenerat man cannot bee said to stande in bondage to sinne after regeneration and the servant of GOD at the same time by outwarde profession for none are in bondage to sinne after their calling to the faith to our iudgment but suche as contynue obstinate in their open knowne sinne after due admonition that such stande not by outwarde profession the servants off CHRIST but of sinne and are to bee excommunicate hee willingly granteth and herevpon merueileth how I shoulde gather that obstinat grosse sinners shoulde not bee excommunicat which hee might playnlye perceiue if hee had eyes for if al the regenerat bee in bondage to sinne and so the servants of sinne and of Sathan howe should they cast out an other for bondage out of their fellowship by the power of CHRIST If Maister Giffard say because the obstinate is in greater bondage then the other this proueth not that the bond can cast out the bond by the power of Christ. Againe if all bee in bondage then none can bee houlden without for being in bondage to sinne so that none shoulde be excommunicat none without the worlde and the CHURCH light and darknes CHRIST and BELIALL should bee mingled together To all which hee hath made no answere but demandeth certeine questions and maketh such a formall conclusion as if all were in bondage vnto sinne His questions I grant all affirmantiuely yet denye his consequence Let him plainely proue therfore by euidence of SCRIPTURE that all that do sinne are bondslaues of sinne and when hee hath so done I shall therevpon conclude him a flat Anabaptist in the cheif ground of their profession Verye gladlye therefore woulde hee leave out the worde bondage and falslye accuseth and sclandereth mee in saying I holde that men can not outwardly appeare sinners and stand the servants of CHRIST both at a time which is an open vntruth Yt is hee that cannot put difference betwene sinning and bondage vnto sinne so that in one worde all his questions are answered If anie bee in bondage to sinne hee standeth a seruant thereof Now for the 7. to the Romanes the APOSTLE setting forth the strift betwene the flesh and the Spirit speaketh somtimes in the person of the one if I may so speake and somtimes of the other somtimes of the newe man or regenerat part or of himself so far as hee is regenerat somtimes of the olde man which is not wholly slayne but ful of rebellion striueth for maisterie Nowe I must demand of him whether of these two haue the preheminence dominion and rule in the regenerat the graces of the Spirit or the rebellions of the flesh The same APOSTLE saith the SPIRIT and that part off the man renewed there with which wee call the inner man In the 8. Cap. he maketh it playne The lawe of the spirit of life in CHRIST hath freed mee from the lawe of sinne and of death What is the lawe of the Spirit but the powre rule and dominion of the Spirit of GOD in vs And what is the lawe of sinne but the powre of sinne and bondage wherewith