that was shed upon the Cross doth Justifie and Sanctifie G. W. Is that Blood still in being yea or nay J. I. Wee 'l pass by that Question it may be it was left behind Answer to the Body that was Crucified whether it be in Heaven yea or nay G. VV. Is it in Heaven without the Blood in it Mat. Caff The Blood is in it or with him in Heaven he entered into the Holy Place with Blood G. VV. Is it that Blood that was shed outwardly in his Body M. C. Yes by the Almighty Power of God he could take it up again G. VV. Where provest thou that he did take it up again Others deny the Blood to be in the Body in Heaven But of this Point we could have no proof And further take notice of some Passages and Contradictions of one Tho. Brown a Baptist of Worplesdon contending with some of our Friends in the Marshalsey Prison about the Blood that was shed c. as the others before G. VVhitehead asked him What became of the Blood that was shed is it in being yea or nay Bapt. Nay it sank into the ground G. VV. Then M. Caffin and thou are of two contrary minds for he said It is in being with Christ in Heaven he having power to take it up again Bapt. Then M. Caffin is able to demonstrat what he has affirmed as touching it G. VV. Now it appears thou wilt contradict thy own belief and be of M. Caffin's Faith whereas thou shouldst have some Faith of thy own and not pin thy Faith on M. Caffin's sleeve nor be of such an implicit Faith There are many things in Will. Burnets Book which I could enlarge upon and shew his ignorance in and several of his Arguments and Opinions concerning the Resurrection which I shall not here contend with him about though he has argued very weakly and shallowly and wrested Scripture as I can manifest But I recommend the Reader to that part of the Dispute that was with M. Caffin about that Subject wherein both he and W. B. are answered without further collecting his impertinences therein who appears ignorant of the Mysteries of Truth and Salvation and goes to assert matters beyond his understanding like an intruder into things he has not seen But the Resurrection according to the Scriptures of Truth and Testimonies of Christ and the Apostles we do believe and own as recorded in John 5.21 24 25 28 29. chap. 11.25 Mat. 22.30 31 32. 1 Cor. 15.34 35 36 37 38 and so on 2 Cor. 5.1 many other places might be cited And as for W.B. his silly Rhimes and Jiggs in the end of his matter they are so frivolous and several of them so gross and false that they are not worth inserting again part of them depending on that saying in his Book pag. 20. where he saith viz. Let me perswade every sincere hearted Soul to keep to the Scriptures that they may be made to participate of all the good held forth by and in the Promises of God Which is like those Jews thinking to have eternal Life in the Scriptures who would not come to Christ that they might have Life yet they searched them to partake of the good which they fell short of therein John 5.39 40. But W. B. in pag. 21. hath again contradicted himself in confessing That the Reception of the Spirit is the onely means to put a man into a capacity for and give him right to obedience There is nothing that gives a Soul right to Gospel-Ordinances but the gift of Christ to us and his being revealed in us by his Spirit Thus far W. B. to his own confutation has confessed to the Reception of the Spirit and the Gift of Christ and his being revealed in us by his Spirit whereby he has overthrown much of his work Here follows some Heads of the Dispute with Matthew Caffin about the RESURRECTION M. C. I Do affirm That the same Bodies of flesh blood and bones that are buried in the Graves shall be raised from 1 Cor. 15. John 1.19 26 27. What say you to the Question do you deny it G. W. Some man will say How are the dead raised and with what Bodies come they forth 1 Cor. 15. O Fool that which thou sowest is not quickned except it die and thou sowest not that Body that shall be but bare Grain it may chance of Wheat or some other c. M. C. My Question is not with what Body but if the same that is laid in the Earth shall rise G. W. The Question How are the Dead raised and with what Bodies come they forth which was asked by some whom the Apostle reprehends as Fools comprehends thy Question Whether the same Body or another shall be raised and therefore the Apostles answer in the case might satisfie thee if thou wert reasonable I do certainly believe M. C. It is sown a natural Body it is raised a spiritual Body the same that is sown is it that is raised G. W. Is that Body of flesh blood and bones thou speaks of the Seed to which God giveth a Body as it pleaseth him and so to every Seed it s own Body yea or nay But no direct Answer would M. Caffin give to it though many times urged M. C. I appeal to the Husbandmen and Farmers who sowe Wheat Rie Pease c. How the same Grain or sort and Grain that they sow doth arise and grow up again G. W. I do appeal to the Husbandmen whether the same Corn that is in the Ear of Wheat Rie c. be the same that was sown in the ground or whether that Body or Ear of Corn being come to maturity so to a body be the very same that was sown Surely they may easily see M. Caffin's error herein for the Wheat or other Grain that falls into the Earth dies as to the substantial part of it but if that which comes forth were but the same that is sown there were no encrease then Husbandmen would soon be a weary of tilling the ground and sowing And if that Body of flesh blood and bones be the Seed to which God giveth a body as it pleaseth him and which shall be raised as he saith then from hence every man must come forth with two bodies which is monstrous to this M. C. could not reply nor clear himself And further there is a Natural Body and there is a Spiritual Body as there are Bodies Coelestial and Bodies Terrestrial The Sun Moon Stars are the Coelestial Bodies but Birds Beasts and Fishes are the Terrestrial Now you might reckon him a very blind and ignorant man that should put no difference between those Bodies Coelestial and these that are Terrestrial or that should reckon the bodies of Sun Moon and Stars and the bodies of Birds Beasts and Fishes to be all one in matter and substance as M. Caffin hath done concerning Natural and Spiritual Bodies M. C. The Resurrection of the Bodies I affirm
be in their hearts to which God expects obedience Surely that which teacheth men to love the Lord God with all their hearts and souls teacheth them the substance of true Worship and the Law of the Lord is pure converting the soul yet it 's probable many that have a sense of this Law of God within and his Worship may not be in the form of these Baptists nor come under their form of Water-Baptism which such a great stress they lay upon and yet be accepted of God and saved notwithstanding being baptized by the Spirit Bapt. There is that light and understanding still left in nature that there is a God that there is worship due to him but the Light in man leaves him short of what the true God is and what worship is due to him Answ. The Light that God hath given in man doth not only shew that there is a God and a Worship due but also leads him to know the true God and his Worship where it is obeyed as it did to those Gentiles spoken of in Rom. 1.19 20 21. when that which might be known of God was manifest in them which was the ground of their discerning the invisible things of God even his Eternal Power and Godhead from the visible Creation so as they were left without excuse when they turned from it and liked not to retain God in their knowledg viz. which disobedience and abuse caused their Reprobation and further Apostacy and Idolatry Rom. 1.27 28. surely it would be improper to say they liked not to retain God in their knowledge if they had a knowledge of God Bapt. How uncertain a rule or guide is the Light within or the checks of Conscience for a man to build his Hope or Faith upon Ans. Not uncertain to them that have tryed it and beleived in it as Christ exhorted The Spirit that God hath given is certain the Law of God in every man is certain the substance of the ten Commandments within as is confessed is certain Conscience when acted by the Light and Law of God within is not uncertain in it's checks against sin Bapt. For if that Light that is in man be darkness or vailed with gross erorrs and so the soul run into strange enormities how sad will it be for that soul that gives up himself to follow it this is the Quakers Principle not only to look for Salvation from it but to be led by it Answ. Surely this is a very sad conclusion against the Light within and very false for he hath confounded erring conscience light and darkness together as not making a difference here in the end of his work for first a Light that convinceth and reproves the wicked of sin is confessed to be in them 2ly A knowledge of God left in man 3ly The substance or body of the ten Commandments 4thly Consciences conviction which the Law of God in the heart is the ground of none of which can truly be deemed darkness though some put light for darkness and darkness for light as this our opposer hath done Also to tell of the light in man being darkness or vailed with gross errors are two different things for the Light being vailed in some doth not change it from being light in its own essence And now it wil not be sad for that soul that gives up himself to follow the Light within which convinces and reproves for sin and teaches truly to love the Lord God and to do righteously justly before all men which answers and fulfils the substance of the moral Law which is confessed to be within men even in the very heathen as in p. 17. So that the truth of our Principle touching the Light within is evidently verified and proved both from the Scriptures of truth as also from our adversaries own confession therefore the rest of our Principles which depend upon it must needs be true the Light of Christ within being the fundamental or most binding as W.B. has confest so the less need be said to his frivolous objections against us in other particulars howbeit some things may be observed touching several passages following Bapt. Those that have not the Spirit to lead them if the Scriptures be the Rule what Rule have they Answ. Without the guidance of the Spirit the right use and end of the Scriptures cannot be known they are as a Book sealed only by the Spirit truly opened as to their not having the Spirit to lead them that 's but a begging the Question and contradicts much of what he hath said before for how are any said not to have it but in that they walk not in its way nor follow its leadings but rebell against the Spirit grieve and vex the Holy Spirit such are not without it as to its conviction and reproofs though not having it as to the true sense and apprehension of it guidances life virtue and glory of its ministration they being in that which is sensual and devilish Bapt. God never designed the Spirit to be man's Rule but to be mans assistant and helper to walk and build by the rule the Scripture doth direct him to his duty pag. 19. Answ. And are not the directions of the Spirit according to the Scriptures did not God ever design the Spirit to lead into all Truth and if the Spirit doth principle a Soul for his duty as this our Opposer confesseth then the Spirit is sufficient to guide order and be a rule to him in his duty so that in denying the Spirits sufficiency he hath denyed Scripture which testifies of the Spirit which many may be led by that cannot read the Scriptures and to his confessing That every Believer is as a wise builder that hath his judgment and skil principled within By what is the true Believer so principled if not by the Spirit or Light of Truth within Is it not the Spirit that doth so principle a man for his work both in praying hearing and obedience yea it is confest in the same page that it is the Spirit and doth it follow that the Spirit of God is not a rule sufficient or that the Light within must be excluded from trying Doctrines because the Bereans did search the Scriptures to see whether these things were so whereas they received the Word with all readiness of mind which implies that in the main they were satisfied in that they received the Word with such readiness and they searched the Scriptures which if in any particular thing this may be said to imply a doubting on their parts their doubt cannot be any Argument to detract from the Spirits sufficiency both to inform satisfie and guide them into the Truth declared of in the Scriptures So that to say It was by the Scripture without and not by the Light within This shews great ignorance thus to exclude the Light whereas he should rather have said as his former words intimate That it was by the Spirit or Light within together with the Scriptures that
this for it is a truth that he does not answer but scornfully sayes p. 5. viz. You may see the Quakers Christ is manifest to be in the World in the Heart in that sence they preach that he is come in the flesh but not that he was flesh or that the flesh taken in the Womb of the Virgin was Christ but that Christ was in that body or in the World Rep. 1. As to man's coming to walke with God we know it is by the Light of Christ within for if we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth 1 Joh. 1.6 therefore it is by walking in the Light that fellowship with God is attained to And as to Christ's coming in the flesh we do confess according to the Scriptures and even in that particular body prepared for him in the Womb of the Virgin which we do not find that you Baptists do clearly confess to whilst you oppose us for confessing his coming in the flesh or for not saying with you that the flesh and body Christ took upon him was Christ which is all one as to say that Christ took upon him Christ which were to make two Christs whereas every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God but is the spirit of Antichrist 1 Joh. 4. It is not Jesus Christ come in Jesus Christ. Thus you make your selves ridiculous by carping at the Truth and cavalling against Christ's Light which the Quakers own And as to our laying the stress of Salvation upon our obedience to the Light within Answ. Christ is the Author of Salvation to as many as obey him who is the true Light that enlightens every man and in his Light he is to be followed and obeyed and therein we lay the stress of mans duty in obeying the Light of Christ within and his Salvation in the Light or Grace which appears to all men And as to Christ's coming in the Clouds of Heaven his coming W. B. represents as the lightening out of the East to the West that he is sure a man may see without turning his eye within himself he saith Answ. His coming will be terrible to you that deny his Light within yet we confess the coming of Christ is in the Clouds and is as the Lightning though he is yet clouded from many As the Cloud at his Assention received him out of their sight who stood gazing so all the gazers abroad from the Light within may read their figure even the Cloud But Steven when he was full of the Holy Ghost saw Heaven open and the Son of man on the right Hand of God This Holy Ghost was the ground of his so seeing the Son of Man surely he did not see God nor his right Hand with Carnal Eyes And Christ said There are those that stand by that shall not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom or the Kingdom of God come with Power Mat. 16.28 Mark 9.1 Neither Christ nor the Holy Men of God said as this Baptist doth That neither God Christ or the Spirit or any thing capable to save is to be found in any unregenerate man to which he may turn for Salvation How false and gross is this Is God to be confined or the holy One to be limited whose presence fills Heaven and Earth and who filleth all things And did not Christ direct to the Kingdom of Heaven within Luke 17. and to believe in the Light that they might be made the Children of the Light So that they had the Light before they were born of it and it shone in their hearts but and if not any unregenerate man hath any thing in him that 's saving by this not any of Gods Children till they were his Children had the Light in them How came they then to be convinced and begotten to God Where was the Light in the Order of Gods Work in the Soul before it was effected if not at work in them But to his own Contradiction p. 8. he confesses That the Law was accompanied with the Spirit in that regenerating Work Then it was in man And as to that Story and Accusation against Ja. Naylor we never understood that he professed himself to be Christ neither in his examination before the Magistrates nor before but that Christ was in him so that he in the Story is wronged therein which savours of meer malice and envy in this Baptist to render us odious and obnoxious in the sight of our Enemies howbeit wherein J. N's weakness was either in suffering or not reproving the madness of those that were with him in Prison therein we never justified him nor them but testified against them and when he became sensible of his loss it became matter of great trouble and sorrow to him and he openly judged himself and through repentance found mercy by all which the truth and uprightness of our way so much villified and struck at by this Baptist was justified and he found to be unjust in upbraiding us with that which we never owned and in that hath done as neither he nor his Brethren would be done by neither is it reasonable to judge and condemn Principles either from the defect or abuse of any persons professing them But to the matter before it 's confessed from Rom. 7. That the Commandment being brought home with Authority and accompanied with the Spirit and he seeing himself a dead man he was forced to fly from his legal Obedience to the Righteousness of Christ therefore the Spirit is alive because of Righteousness c. By all which 't is confessed 1. That it 's the Spirit of Christ manifested within makes the Law of force 2. Which brings a man to see himself and his own works 3. Brings him to Christs Righteousness for refuge And this Spirit is that which the Quakers direct to that people may begin in it and live in it to see the work of Regeneration and of Righteousness thereby wrought in them and this is that Spirit which reproves the World of sin even the unbelieving World for their unbelief in Christ So that here our Opposer to his own confutation hath confessed to the Quakers Christ as in scorn he often terms him as he without whom neither true Conviction nor Regeneration is wrought nor yet Christ's Righteousness received for a refuge but what he means by that Righteousness will further appear And now this Baptist having undertaken to shew what that Light is in every man that convinces of sin unto which the Quakers exhort men to turn by which he hath confessed a convincing Light in every man but saith It 's neither God Christ nor the Spirit His proof is Ephes. 2.11 12. touching the Gentiles being Aliens Strangers without God in the World c. Reply He was in the World and the World was made by him and the World knew him not John 1.10 These being Aliens and
in darkness and is there to be turned to within and taken heed unto till the day dawn So to say they have none shining nor hid in them is a contradiction to the former saying that every man hath a Light convincing of sin and the substance or body of the moral Law in him which enjoyns truely to love the Lord God c. and the Law within is Light Again to that of Joh. 14.17 The world not receiving the Comforter or their rejecting the Spirit is no reason to prove they are not enlightened by it but reather the contrary for the Spirit reproves the world of sin and to them that resisted and acted despite against the holy Spirit it was given and did check them or else how could they be said to resist it and that the Spirit shall not alwaies strive with man Bapt. Again In answer to that of Joh. 1.9 That was the true Light that lightens every man that cometh into the world the Baptist gives this meaning viz. that it was the Word before he took flesh which was God and this Word Co-Creator with the Father so he was the Light of the World and lighteth every man for the Light of Reason and the Light of Nature P. 10. Answ. First It is to be noted that a Light of Reason c. is hence confessed to be in every man which still contradicts his saying before of some having not any Light in them and nothing but darkness in them 2. If as God he lighteth every man this Light is spiritual for he is a Spirit who doth enlighten every man In him was Life and the Life was the Light of men Joh. 1.4 so that 't is as absurd to say that God's Light that immediatly shines from him is natural or created as to say the light of the natural Sun is spiritual and increated for it 's said of the Word That was the true Light that enlightens every man coming into the World which he might as well say is natural in the fountain as in the stream 3. To tell of the word God Co-Creator with the Father is all one as to tell of God being Co-Creator with God if the Father be God and this is to make two Gods two Creators c. for God Co-creator with the Father plainly implyes two Thus Nonsence Confusion and Blasphemy is heapt up against the Light within to lessen misrepresent and undervalue it and the Doctrine of it so truely held forth by us How greatly are the Baptists herein repugnant to the Testimony of John Baptist and the Apostle John touching Christ the Light Bapt. The spirit in man and obedience to it is not the cause of mans union with God But the reception of the spirit and obedience the effects of mans union Answ. Which is all one as to say that a man hath union with God before he either receives or obeyes his Spirit which is whilst he walks in darkness which he that so sayes doth lie 1 Joh. 1.6 And then what is the ground and cause of mans union with God if obedience and reception of the Spirit be not the cause but the effect of that union is not the true begining in the Spirit and is there not obedience to it in beleiving in it before man's new creation in Christ be effected the spiritually minded do know Again If the Kingdom of God was in the Pharisees Luk. 17. as is granted they being wicked it 's in every man in some degree contrary to his assertion P. 12. But he tels us these words within you may be read in the midst of you in the Margent of the Bible So here we must be accused from the margent as being in error for holding what is in the chapter which is truth according to other Scriptures Besides his telling of Christ and the Gospel being taken out of them implyeth they were sometimes in them and as to receiving the Kingdom as a little Child from whence he denies it to be in every man that is no good consequence for the Pharisees were neither converted nor yet in the state of a little child when Christ said the Kingdom of God is within you Luke 17.21 for it may be in men though but as a grain of Mustard seed when they are not in it Bapt. Though Christ be in his Saints he is not there as a Saviour Answ. That 's false doctrine for he saves them from sin and is manifest in them for that end to destroy the Devil's work and elsewhere it 's confessed that if Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin But farther he adds as followeth Bapt. Or a Light to be turned to for to guide them in their obedience God-wards without the Scriptures But as a Comforter by the application of his promise Answ. Herein is the sufficiency of Christ and his Light to guide opposed and denyed without the Scriptures by this our opposer as if the Scriptures must needs help Christ the Light or Spirit and as if the guidance of the Spirit now were not to be esteemed of as Scripture inspired as well as the Scriptures were when given by inspiration to the men of God of old Or when it 's confessed that Christ within is the Comforter he means by the application of promises without which is still to detract and diminish from the Spirits sufficiency both in guiding and comforting though it leads into all truth and brings to know the right use of the Scriptures which we do own in preferring the Spirit and owning its guidance to lead into the knowledge of the truths in Scripture Bapt. As to the essence or being of Christ it is at the Right hand of God in the Heavens which must retain him nay which must receive him Acts 3.21 22. But this the Quakers scoff at a Christ above the Clouds or at a distance from them Answ. What does this talk and reflection upon us tend to but to exclude both the being of Christ and the Heavenly state out of his people and to confine both God Christ Gods right hand of power and being all remote from his people and then how is their conversation in Heaven how are they in the Fathers right hand and what Heaven is it and where are the heavenly places the Saints were in which Christ and the Son of man was in when upon earth was it a natural Heaven or a spiritual and is not that the Heaven of Heavens or the chief Heaven which is most near to God most spiritual But unto whom shall I speak wisdom or utter knowledge they that shut their eyes in prejudice will not be made to see or understand We know and confess that Christ ascended far above all Heavens and yet fills all things and Gods presence fills Heaven and Earth But in answer to the question How then is Christ in his people Bapt. 1. By the beams of his light 2 dly by his holy Spirit Rep. Then by this the holy Spirit in his people is
they were assisted holpen principled and directed But now it is the man of God who is led by the Spirit that knows the true use and profit of the Scriptures 2 Tim. 3.16 where it is said All Scripture is given by inspiration which should be read All Scripture given by inspiration is being added Now he that receives Scripture by inspiration knows the right use and profit of it thereby all which shews the sufficiency of the Spirit or inspiration of the Almighty which both gave Scripture and understanding And as for his pretending to square his work by the Scriptures he would make people believe he were very exact in the Scriptures but we find the contrary both in his medly confusion and darkness brought forth against the Light within as also in several things hereafter as in his saying Paul when he reasoned with the unbelieving Jews about Christ was so far from turning them to the Light within that he proves his Doctrine wholly by the Scriptures without p. 20. Answ. If he were far from turning them to the Light within this would make him oppose his own Commission which was to turn men to the Light within which his proving his Doctrine by the Scripture is no reason against for he was a Minister of the Spirit and his Ministry tended to bring to the Spirit in reasoning out of the Scriptures he reasoned for Christ the Light and in proving Christs Suffering and Resurrection he witnessed unto the Power by which he was raised and the love and good will of God in sending his Son But this W. B. in contradiction to himself sayes That the Letter of it is written with Ink and Paper is dead but the matter contained is spiritual and powerful when carried home by the Spirit By which he hath here confessed to the Spirit or Light within without which the Letter is but dead Again it is objected That Daniel understood by Books that the captivity of Babylon was near at an end and not by the Light within Dan. 9. Answ. This was a particular case touching the number of the years of the desolation of Jerusalem and not a matter of Salvation though the knowledge thereof was given to Jeremiah by the Word of the Lord that came to him Jer. 25.12 And neither Jeremiah nor Daniel did thus exclude the Light within from their understandings as here it is slighted But W. B. does not tell us how God gave Daniel knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom and that Daniel had understanding in all Visions and Dreams Dan. 1.17 Nay in his thus slighting the Light within he hath shewed himself worse than the very Heathen who did confess that an excellent Spirit was in Daniel and that Light and Understanding and Wisdom like the wisdom of the Gods was found in him Dan. 4 8 9. 5.11 12 14. 6.3 And so however though they mentioned their Gods yet herein the excellency of the Spirit Light Understanding and Wisdom that was in Daniel they did confess to and highly esteem more than W.B. hath done Again in his 21 page touching the Reception of the Spirit acquitting a man from his obedience to the Scripture I ask who affirms that it doth herein he hath but beaten the Air for we affirm that the Spirit brings to the fulfilling of the Scriptures and doth not destroy the Truth contained in them but whereas he tells of the Scripture being a Rule and a Weapon to be made use of at all times against Satan of such as had the same Spirit in as great a measure as the Pen-men of the Scriptures and to prove it saith our dear Lord was fill'd with the Spirit above measure yet he had an eye in all his obedience to the Scriptures Answ. What then was the rule to those Pen-men of the Scriptures in this writing them What was the Rule before they writ them and their Weapon and Defence against Satan Was it not the Spirit the Sword of the Spirit the Shield of Faith the Armour of Light c. whereby they were defended And did our Lord eye the Scriptures for his Rule in his obedience that here he is made the proof who had the Spirit above measure Has not this our opposer both undervalued the Light the Guidance of the Spirit and Christ himself As if they could not square their work right without going out to the Scriptures whereas Christ ought to be preferred and in all things to have the preheminence as is confessed pag. 21. That the reception of the Spirit is the only means to put a man into a capacity for obedience and that there is nothing that gives a Soul right to Gospel Ordinances but the gift of Christ to us and his being revealed in us by his Spirit Thus far W. B. in confutation of himself and as one bafled and confounded in his work is made to confess to the Quakers Principle contrary to his own intention And what were these Gospel-Ordinances and Gods Commands that he sayes Paul preached and practised in all his life Did he practise Water-Baptism all his life time Or did he pretend Scripture or command for it when Christ sent him not to it Was the Scripture herein his Rule or the Spirit which he was a Minister of Or was the Scripture the Apostles Rule for denying and opposing Circumcision or the guidance of the Holy Ghost to which it seemed good and unto them that no such yoak should lie on the Disciples necks Acts 15. And now W. B. to prove his false accusation against us of falling under strong delusions so as to believe a lie he asks or else what makes them to appoint their silent meetings and to run several miles to them and sit hours together without speaking a word Answ. What proof is this of delusion or believing a lie when nothing is spoken but this telling that we appoint silent Meetings Herein is his mistake for we do not appoint any meetings intentionally to limit them to silence but singly to wait upon God either to learn of our High Priest Christ Jesus or to speak or exhort as he requires which was the practice of many of Gods People who knew a time of silence and a waiting in silence before they went forth to preach and did know the teaching of God within to direct them both in silence and in speaking Isa. 41.1 Jer. 8.14 Ezek. 3.15 16. Eccles. 2.7 Job 2.13 Luke 24.49 Acts 1.4 and this we are witnesses of who are come to know a subjection to the Power of God and may not run nor preach nor pray in mens will nor act in a voluntary and feigned humility like such will-worshippers as can put one another on to praying and preaching and say Brother will you pray Brother will you perform the Duty And Brother I pray do you pray you are more able and worthy than I c. Again we have born a testimony for God in our meeting together both when we have ministred and when we
cause of Salvation but the effects And by what rule doth W. B. thus essay to correct the Scriptures which he counts his rule or thus detect the sayings of Chiist as being so improper as giving that to one thing which belongs to another in such a high concernment And has not he herein in effect accused the Scriptures and God with the same thing or as great offence as he has accused us withal as giving that to one thing which belongs to another as our attributing Salvation and Justification to God or Christ as the Eternal Word which he would lay all upon the Off-spring of man or upon the Body of Christ that suffered death upon the Cross and sometimes upon the shedding the Blood out of it denying Christ as the Word and Son of God to be the Saviour contrary to plain Scriptures as before is shewn Bapt. Christs ascribing and attributing that to the God-head that properly refers to the manhood is a stumbling-stone to this poor people pag. 35. Answ. What is this but to charge Christ with improper Doctrine or impertinent speaking wherein W. B. makes himself wiser than Christ and a Corrector of Christ's sayings 'T is no marvel that he hath so much accused us feignedly calling us poor People when he hath done no less to Christ as one not consenting to the wholesom words or sayings of Christ but in effect denies them improper in the case mentioned and then makes that the cause of our stumbling both which are false and wherein we are either accused for saying That God saveth Justifieth or the Eternal Word Redeems Saves c. and that God was in Christ reconciling the World If our Adversary should say this is improper and that it 's an error to ascribe that to God the Eternal Word or to Christ as the Eternal Son of God that properly belongeth to his Manhood as the Son of Mary not as the Son of God c. Has not he accused Christ to the very same purpose with speaking improperly What can we expect from such a one but the like reproaches and contradictions of sinners that Christ Jesus the Captain of our Salvation underwent and yet this proud presumptuous Opposer of Truth will pretend the Scriptures or sayings of Christ to be his Rule but when they please him not hee 'l assay to correct them by his dark confused meanings and corrupt interpretations Who further adds to his corrupt Doctrine as followeth Bapt. But as he was God without being Man or the Root and not the Off-spring he could not save Man for God was the Offended and Man the Offender and it was impossible for the Offended to acquit and clear the Guilty and to discharge the Debt and to imbrace the Offender for no man out of Christ can see God's face and live Answ. Here it appears what he means by saving Man and clearing the Guilty onely a pacifying of God and an acquitting Man from the penalty as he imagines which as he sayes God could not do but something that was not God but the Off-spring of Man as he saith So by this he doth not mean Salvation to be a work wrought in man as a saving and delivering from sin or the offence within but a satisfaction made to God that he may imbrace the Offender and yet he must be in Christ that sees God's face What gross contradiction is this and what falshood blasphemy is it to say God could not save or that it was impossible for him to discharge the debt Where first observe that if Salvation consist in pacifying or satisfying God without any inward work wrought by him in man which were a gross error so to say this is all one to say God cannot please himself but some other must do it and this is to deny that God had infinite love good will and favour in himself as the real cause of his sending his Son into the World And then I ask Who is he that satisfies and appeaseth God dischargeth the Guilty and payes the Debt Bapt. It is the Man Christ Jesus Quest. Whence came he Answ. God gave him Quest. And what is this Man Christ Jesus who can satisfie pacifie an Infinite God Bapt. He is God-man born of a Virgin Rep. How then doth it hold that God could not save and how would this divide God and set him at a distance from himself if that which satisfies be of infinite worth then whence came all these distinctions tending to make a variableness in God whose love is infinite and whose wayes are wayes of Truth and Righteousness Or is it good Doctrine to say That God pacified God when he saw himself angry For sayes the Baptist It was God-man that did it Which is all one as to say God corrected himself and not Man while perfection and freedom from sin is denyed in this life by Baptists and others and then he was Mediator to himself and so a Mediator of One whereas a Mediator is not a Mediator of One but God is One Gal. 3.20 and the cause of his displeasure and of the Law and sentence of death being added was sin which Christ comes to destroy and to put an end to that the Creature may be in him in whom the Face of God is seen in whom there is no sin and in him God is well-pleased and thus we know a Mediator is not a Mediator of One but we have a Mediator betwixt God and Man even the Man Christ Jesus We have an Advocate with the Father Mark we have an Advocate and we have life through the Son of God we know that the Righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in every one that walks after the Spirit And so we can rejoyce in God our Saviour and testifie against all such antichristian spirits as deny his Power and say He could not save as God whereas his Divine Power worketh mightily in the true Believers unto their salvation for he hath wrought all our works in us and it is his Divine Power that giveth unto us all things pertaining to Life and Godliness 2 Pet. 1.2 And how is Redemption purchased by the Son of God if he doth not save as he is the Word seeing it 's confessed he most properly was the Son of God from the dayes of Eternity pag. 34. And how hath he wrought off man's disobedience by his suffering is it wrought off whilest man lives in it and denyes Perfection and Freedom from sin tearm of life and how then doth the Seed of the Woman bruise the Serpents head if the Serpent must have a place and sway in man by leading him into sin the dayes of mans life must not the Serpent's head be bruised within and the Seed be known within which bruiseth it and hath not he that is born of God the Seed in him and is not this Seed Spritual But what is the price so much talk'd on that both satisfies God and saves man Bapt. The sufferings and blood sheding of Christ had in it
contradiction he saith Christ hath redeemed man by his death and blood shedding at his death he should have said It was shed after his death and then Let every ones expectation be from that Christ c Indeed our expectation is from no other Christ for two Christs we do not preach But mark how one while W.B. makes that blood and the shedding of it his Justifier Redeemer c. which he has confessed is not in being Another while People must seek their Saviour above the Clouds and Firmament pag. 33. contrary to the Righteousness of Faith Rom. 10.6 Another while they must look to Jerusalem for Justification to the blood that was there shed pag. 24. contrary to Deut. 30.13 14. and Rom. 10. And if men should look to Jerusalem for that blood it is not there to be found for it 's not in being sayes W. B. What confusion what a Laborynth and uncertainty is he in and does he bring his Hearers into But as to these things sufficient is said before and the Mystery of Christ's sufferings and blood as revealed by his Spirit owned by us according to the Scriptures of Truth Their vain Confusions they shall die and cease But Light and Truth within they shall increase Some Heads of the Controversies and Disputes that were between Geo. Whitehead and the Baptists at Chertsey and Horn in Surry on the 16 th and 17 th dayes of the fourth month 1668. THat one of you Quakers hath writ that Christ was never seen with a carnal eye which we can prove he was G. W. Christ said unto Philip He that seeth me seeth my Father also which could not be with a carnal eye And was not he the true Christ a Saviour that said Before Abraham was I am and it 's said he took part of the same that the Children had to wit flesh and blood was not that he the true Christ W. B. That Body of Christ that suffered on the Cross and was buried in the Sepulchre was Christ the Saviour of the World G. W. That Body was called the Body of Jesus when Joseph of Arimathea begged it of Pilate for that Body was prepared for Jesus it is not said He begged the Jesus of Jesus but the Body of Jesus Jer. Jves That Body without the Spirit when it was dead was but an empty Trunk G. W. But so is not Christ the Saviour of the World who was before Abraham was W. B. Christ as he was God before he assumed the Body that suffered could not break the Serpents head nor was he capable of being a Saviour without a Body because he had nothing to offer as he was God c. G. W. Herein Will. Burnet hath denied the power of God and its sufficiency and hath spoken no less than blasphemy to say God could not break the Serpents Head whereas God is often said to be a Saviour as in Hosea I am God a Saviour besides me there is none other c. with many other places J. J. W.B. Is the same Body of Christ that suffered on the Cross in Heaven yea or nay G.W. The Body of Christ in Heaven is not Carnal but Spiritual J. J. W. B. But what became of that Body that suffered is it in Heaven yea or nay G. W. I do not read that he is in Heaven with a Body of Flesh Blood and Bones it was changed Jer. Ives As for the question of the Blood wee 'l pass that by Is the same Body of flesh and bones in Heaven G. W. Would you have me answer your Question herein when you dare not assert it to be the same in all the Ingredients to wit as having the Blood in it What say you to it Is it in Heaven without the Blood in it Christ after his Resurrection appeared in divers Forms as one while his appearance to Thomas was to be touched at another time he said Touch me not I am not yet ascended and he appeared among them the Doors being shut and once also he vanished out of their sight Mark he vanished out of their sight and in what manner his Body was changed or what trasmutation it had I shall not go about to demonstrate for I would not go about to make my self wise above what is written in this matter Jer. Ives What change or alteration Christs Body might have we cannot determine nor what glory he is in for to inquire with what Body the the dead are raised is absurd and that which should not be G. W. Why then do you obtrude a Question upon me which you dare not plainly assert or which you are unlearned in your selves W. B. You deny the shedding of the Blood upon the Cross that was let out by vertue of the Spear being thrust into his side to be meritorious or the meritorious cause of mans Justification This W. B. held in the Affirmative G. W. The shedding of that Blood let out by the Spear was an act of a wicked man and the Spear an instrument of cruelty which to lay the meritorious cause or stress of Justification upon is false Doctrine for there is a great difference between Christ's offering up himself by the Eternal Spirit a Lamb without spot to God and the acts of wicked men inflicted upon him as it 's said by wicked hands they put him to death Jer. Ives You must not stand upon the Grammatical sence of his words but take his meaning my brother Burnet meant Christs Passion and not the Act of wicked men or not the Souldiers act of shedding Christs Blood Brother Burnet was not that your meaning W. B. Yes brother yet it is proper to say It was Christs Act to shed his blood as it was Sauls Act to kill himself when he bid his Armour-bearer thrust him through G. W. This is a gross Instance and Comparison thus to instance a murderer in this case of Christs suffering thus to bring a murderer to prove it Christs Act to shed his Blood when he suffered neither doth it hold parallel for Christ did not bid the Souldier thrust his Spear into his side it was done after he was Crucified and put to death Jer. Ives But whether or no that Blood that was shed upon the Cross was a meritorious cause of Justification I am justified and purged by it G. W. Whether or no that Blood which purgeth cleanseth and justifieth is still in being seeing it is the Blood of Christ that cleanseth them from all sin who walk in the Light as God is in the Light and that there are three that bear Record in the Earth the Spirit the Water and the Blood and these three agree in one But to this Question Whether the blood that cleanseth beareth Record in the Earth be still in being no answer they gave Now the Principal Heads of the Controversie were more briefly collected as followeth Together with Matt. Caffin's Contradictions against them Jer. Ives THE Blood