Truth against the Soul-destroying Errors of Quakerism I am perswaded if the Principles of those Men were but truly understood and the consequence that necessarily flow from them known to you you would with as much Satisfaction chuse to dye a Martyr in opposition to that Error as the Christians of Queen Mary's Dayes did against Romish Idolitry give me leave to say plainly a Quaker cannot be a Christian I mean a Quaker that knoweth and defendeth the Principles of that party and I can confirm it as strongly as I assert it plainly and will do it for your sake by this Argument every part and Branch whereof I am fully satisfied in If Quakerism Subvert the Fundamental and Essential Articles of the Christian Religion then no Quaker that understands and professeth the Principles of Quakerism can be a Christian But it doth so as will presently appear For 1. They Deny the Existance of the Human Nature and Satisfaction of the Blood of Christ. 2. They Deny the Imputed Righteousness of Christ as the matter of our Justification 3. They Deny the Resurrection of the Body and its Partisipation of Glory with the Soul 4. They lead Men to the Covenant of Works and Obedience to the Light within for Salvation All these are there real Opinions let them dissemble and hide themselves never so Cunningly I can prove it out of their own wicked Pamphlets I have had it from there own Mouths and that often and to satisfie you of the truth of what I charge them if you will but conseal the Paper from them and ask any of their Leaders your self so as they apprehend not your design these Questions you shall find the Charge Just and Real against them take a fit Season and Demand thus 1. Are we Justified and Saved by that very Blood of Christ that was shed at Jerusalem or by some other means then by the Blood of the Man Christ Jesus 2. Is Jesus Christ now in Heaven in a true and real Body of Flesh and Blood Or is he not 3. Is the Active and Passive Obedience which Christ performed here on Earth in the dayes of his Flesh the matter of our Righteousness before God Or is it something in our selves 4. Shall these very Bodys of Flesh and Blood rise again at the last Day and be glorified with the Souls and remain Human Bodys still for Substance though glorified Bodys for qualities Or what shall become of them 5. Must we expect Salvation by believing in Christ for Righteousness and applying his Righteousness to our Souls by Faith or must we expect it by Obedience to the Light within us This being done discretly so as that they see you do for Satisfaction and not to intangle them I am confident you will find to your Sorrow that I have too Justly charged them with those Damnable Errors and then the Snare is broken and your Soul escaped But you must have a care of there deceitful Answers and hold them close to the words of each Question else they will hide the hook in general and plausable answers But it were better for you to converse on these points with sound and sollid Christians that know their Principles then trust your self amongst them but if you must I doubt not but by a discreet management you may have it from the Mouthes of their chief Leaders the Lord keep your Soul in his Truth remember there are damnable Errors 2 Peter 2. 5. as well as Practices Give me a few Lines that may rejoyce and comfort my Heart concerning you for my love to you makes me Jealous over you I Remain yours in Jesus Christ our Hope John Flavell Clement Lakes Answer to the foregoing Letter I Have considered thy Letter and the high Charges in it and to begin with the first First That they deny the Existans of the Humane Nature I shall as I said answer in Scripture Language and shall take heed of Philosophical words because I do not profess my self to be one I look on it as a Just and reasonable thing due from all men that all proposals of Questions to others about there Faith and Believe of the Scriptures should be in Scripture Language I do not remember that ever I read of the word Existaens or Humane in all the Scriptures of Truth I shall take heed according to the Apostle's advice of vain Philosophy and shall ground my Faith according to the Scriptures of Truth in all the matters on which my Salvation dependeth I believe that Christ is glorified with the Father with the same Glory he had before the World was according to John 17. 5. and 1 Tim. 3. 16. He is received up to Glory and that he shall come again in the Glory of his Father with his Angels Math. 16. 27. And that he is sitting on the right hand of Power Mark 14. 62. And that he ascended up far above all Heavens And that he is gone into Heaven and is on the Right Hand of God and that it is a Glorious Body Phil. 3. 21. And if this make me an Heretick for believing as the Scripture hath said I shall willingly bare thy Judgment For the Second part of it That they deny the Satisfaction of the Blood of Christ. This is a false Lying Slanderous Charge charge it who will for my part according to what I have heard and seen since acquainted with them of all the sorts of Professors that I have been conversant with I have not known any to have a greater Esteem for and put a greater value on the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ then those do that are thus charged and indeed it is no wonder that they thus value it seeing a remnant have experienced such unexpressable vertue from it and benefit by it As for my part I believe Salvation in no other and out of him there is none and I believe and know it is the Faith of those with whom I walk according to Acts 4. 12. And he is the Propitiation for our Sins 1 John 2. 2. And he hath purchased us with his own Blood Acts 20. 28. and Rom. 3. 25. and by him we have Remission of Sin and we are Justified by his Blood Rom. 5. 9. And by it we have Eternal Redemption Heb. 9. 12. 1 Pet. 1. 2. And if we walk in the Light as he is in the Light we have fellowship one with another and the Blood of Christ cleanseth us from all Sin And what the difference is between the walking in the Light that is so much derided and walking in Christ I know not but if we walk in him the Blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse us from all Sin John 7. 9. And I believe not only from the guilt but from the filth also verse 9. And I believe that Sanctification and Justification are inseparable I see but little mention made in thy Letter of the cleansing vertue of Christ's Blood or the work of Regeneration that must be wrought in man or the new Birth that
giveth in those sweet and blessed Comforts to his People And is it not there he poureth out his Wrath on the Wicked And is it not in the Heart that he is striving with the Children of Men to reclaim them by his motions And Mens Disobedience to it is a grieving of him and rebelling against him 1. Thes. 5. 19. And it seemeth to me that any man that hath Reason or Religion should be satisfied with this account unless those that will Unchristian others that they might be thought the best Christians themselves and bespatter others that themselves might shine And So I have answered the first four Charges and if I am besides the Truth I desire it may be manifested to me in a few Lines I look on it as a Just and Reasonable thing that before any Man Unchristian another that first they prove there own Position to be according to Truth And Secondly that they prove those Persons guilty of denying those Truths for which they Unchristian them which neither is done in thy Letter but by a bare say so as if it must be true because it is said and said by such a one but it is no new thing such there were in the dayes of old Rev. 2. 9. But he that hath the Key of David hath opened a Door to us that no man can shut and by this little strength we have kept his word and have not denyed his Name Rev. 3. 8 9. For which the People are angry that we do not as they have done And nothing less then to Unchristian us will serve But what if the day should come that you should acknowledge the Lord hath loved us sure it would be a great change I shall not inlarg any furher to speak of the five last things but may refer them until I have the answer from them from whom it is expected and as I have said formerly wherein I am beside the Truth in what I have written let it be signified to me in a few lines who am a well-wisher to the prosperity of Sion and desire the Good of all men Clement Lake We are not the People we are reported to be for we are falsely represented to the World by those who have made Lyes there refuge Esa. â—8 15. And under falshood have hid themseves But Judgment the Lord will lay to the Line and Righteousness to the Plumet and the Haile shall sweep away the refuge of Lyes verse 17. A Second Letter sent to me from John Flavell which is an Answer to my former Letter the seventh of the eight Month 1687. Clement Lake I Received lately an Answer to my Letter written many Years since to preserve you from Quakerism whether this Answer were made by you or others I examine not for it is nothing to the purpose our point is not what you believe But what is the known published Doctrine of the Quakers from which my care was to preserve you I told you that a Quaker owning the professed Principles of Quakerism cannot be a Christian and instanced in several Fundamental Points of Christian Doctrine denyed by them to all of which you gave me your own private Judgment in Scripture terms which seemeth generally sound as I hope you still remain in your own Principles But what is this to the Doctrine of that People with whom you now walk forsaking those Assemblies where first you found Christ if ever you found him I am only concerned to prove my Assertions that Quakerism overthroweth Christianity and this is plain by what followeth which I take not up upon Reports at Random but give it you out of their own printed Discourses First He cannot be a Christian that rejects the Scripture as a Rule But so do the Quakers Toldervy in his Book page 6. saith That searching the Scriptures is not the way to find out the mind of Christ but the turning of the mind to within One Mason in his defence of Cravon page 12. saith Did Paul or any of the Apostles walk by any letteral rule or was not their rules a measure of the Spirit of God committed to every one of them Nayler in his Book against â—ohn Rayner speaks thus of us who differ from him Their Law is without their Light without their Church without all which we witness to be within Farwell then say I to the written word Secondly He cannot be a Christian that affirmeth Perfection and Freedom from Sin on this side Heaven 1 John 1. 8. This hath been often asserted in my hearing by the Quakers and is Printed by Mason in page 3. of his Book quoted from Ephes. 4. 12. Concluding thus Were England's Blind Watch-men Commissioned from Christ they would not thus prate against Perfection Thirdly He cannot be a Christian that maketh no distiction between the Godly and the Ungodly but doth affirm that Christ enlightens every man that cometh into the World with a saving Light but so did John Stubs George Fox and many others affirm it and defend it in a set dispute with Mr. Wiggon in the Printed dispute Page 13. Labouring to prove that every man in the World hath the Spirit of Christ savingly in him from 1 Cor. 12. 7. If so we must alter the whole frame of cripture and Christian Religion And as to Christ's imputed Righteousness how slighting doth Nayler speak of it as a Doctrine of ours Page 20. of his Book but I need go no farther I could instance in many great points more as that of the Resurrection of the Body which hath been once and again denyed by the Quakers to my Face and that with scorne and contempt of my ignorance for affirming it so that I speak not uncharitably or untruly when I said what I did of their Opinions It may be you will say these were But perticular Persons and you reject there mistakes I say they were the leading men of your party and how shall we know your Opinions but from there Books as for you I pray the Lord would preserve you sound in the faith and return you to your first Love to his Saints and Ordinances I am full of compassion for your Soul and remain your Friend John Flavell An Answer to John Flavell's Second Letter sent 1687 to him from Clement Lake of Crediton in Devonshire I Received thy Letter and by it understand that thou hast received mine which thou dost question whether made by me or others I assure thee that no other but my self did indite or write one Line or passage of that or this thou tellst me again that a man owning the professed Principles of Quakers can not be a Christian and that thou didst instance in several Fundamental Points denyed by them to which I replyed they were false Charges and to all of them I should give my reply as my own private Judgment which was seemingly sound This is another abuse seeing I said it was the Faith of those called Quakers also and the Faith of those with whom I walked But it seems
tho my Answer were sound yet not very Acceptable for it was in Scripture terms It is true I am utterly against it that Scripture should bow to vain Philosophy and to be wise above what is written and also it seems one thing not liked my forsakeing those People with whom I have walked it is true while they walked I walked with them but when they grew weary and sat down must I be blamed for not doing as they did because I walked still and that by the Footsteeps of the Flock according to there own adivce and cannot set down or turn back There is one thing that I have observed of the like nature and is counted rather a Vertue then a Vice in others which is this in the time when the Sheepherds fled and the People scattered the Cross of Christ appearing the People crept in under the Wing of the Church of England for shelter I do not say to avoid the Cross of Christ look they to that sheltered they were and fed too with such food as they had to give them if not wholsome why did they use it What made them there Why did their Stewards permit it if they found the Bread of Life there Why are they drawn off again was not this permitted by thee and others if not approved and why was it to keep the Children quiet that they might not Cry for Bread when the Stewards would not give them any for the Lyon was in the way was it good Bread then and is it Husks now Now they will feed these People themselves or rather these People must feed them for their Bread now yeildeth a good rate and if they will not come up to the price we will go to another Flock Well now these People must leave those with whom they have walked and be blamless but blamed if they will not leave them surely I must needs say that they all dealt very disingenously with the Church of England to leave them now they have most need of them as I have told many to there Faees and not only so but rejoyce in there Ruin which is an ill requital for there former kindness but enough of that In thy former Letter thy Charges were drawn and in thy last Letter I expected proof of what was then Charged but I have failed of my Expectation and of fare dealing too for the first Bill is lost and a new Indictment is drawn up which is not fare it yet lieth on thee to prove it or bare thy shame In thy first Letter we were Unchristianed by thy false Accusation and lying Slanders no small Evil for a Minister of Christ to be found guilty of to unchristian such a body of People with a bare say so it is a Spot but not of God's Children they are Children that will not lye and it hath caused my Heart to grieve that such a one as thy self should be the author and spreader of them so that many in this place who have had thy Person in admiration have been doing the same evil Work having an Implicet Faith much like a Generation of men who believe as the Church believeth and it is true because the Church saith it and so they did believe it and spread it because thou said'st it But now the Refuge of Lyes is sweeping away People having had oppertunity of hearing Friends and Conversing with them in this place thy Folly now appeareth and thy Assertions are found to be Lyes tho' John Flavell have said it Hicks Faldoe and others for the Earth is lightned with the Glory of the Lord and we would that all men knew us as we are and then let them judge for we are not ashamed of our Principles But to leave the first and come to the Second Charge or Indictment He cannot be a Christian that rejects the Scripture as a Rule But what I have yet found I may say to thee as Nathan to David Thou art the Man for by what Rule are we thus falsely accused and abominably slandered And it is a rare thing this day to find many such as thy self to Slander us Ignorantly and not Malitiously But to the matter of Fact what was Abel's and Noah's and Enoch's Rule Leader or Guide before the Scriptures were written was it not the Spirit of God and the same Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures in time and moved the holy men of Old who spake as the Spirit gave them utterance even the same Spirit of Truth that Christ promised should be given to his Disciples and remain with them and lead them into all Truth John 14. 16 17. chap. 16. 13. We own and honour the Scriptures above all other Writings in the World and they are profitable for Doctrine for Reproof and for Correction and Instruction in Righteousness 2 Tim. 16. We own we are not of the same mind with an Assembly once gathered that the Scriptures are the only Rule then â—arwell to the Spirit of God say I We do believe that it is not in the Power of men to deprive the Saints of their Rule Leader or Guide which iâ— the Spirit of the Lord But if the Scriptures be the only Rule then it is possible that men may be deprived of their Rule by their Enemies Matth. 11. 17. No man knoweth the Father but the Son and he to whom the Son shall reveal him And now I will appeal to all the Faithful in those late Years when their Teachers fled from them when trouble came and Preaching and Hearing became expensive had not a Remnant been taught of God had they not had the Spirit of the Lord to lead and guide and instruct them what had become of them Had there not been Springs in the Desert and Rivers in the Wilderness streaming from the Lord to refresh those distressed Souls what had become of them 3dly He cannot be a Christian that affirmeth Perfection or freedom from Sin on this side Heaven How is the Scripture rejected here and made to bow down to the experience of men who are taught by their Teachers that it is impossible to have the Works of the Devil destroyed and so make void Christ's Coming when something there is that cannot be parted with and therefore a Cry is made damnable Doctrine to have Sin destroyed I shall first lay down that God hath commanded it Gen. 17. 7. Walk before me and be thou perfect Matth. 19. 24. If thou wilt be perfect sell all All must go if God call for it or no Perfection he had done many things and that from his Youth up and many Sins doubtless were slain and the man dead to them A brave Professor for our days but one thing must be kept a Wedge of Gold a Babylonish Garment he had great Possessions and that he could not part with for Treasure in Heaven the pretiousness of which he had not the Experience of by Faith and this made him go away sorrowful doubtless he liked not the Doctrine of Perfection like the