the holy Ghost his set vs downe by that chosen vessell the blessed Apostle who prayeth Christians to walke worthy their calling whereunto they are called with all humblenes of minde meeknes with long suffering supporting one another in loue endeuouring to keepe the vnitie of the Spirite in the bonde of peace There is one bodie and one spirit c. looke the place To discerne and distinguishe therefore thinges aright here needeth the Spirite of the Lorde the spirite of wisedome vnderstanding the spirite of counsaile and strength the spirite of knowledge and of the feare of the Lorde that may make vs prudent in the feare of the Lord c. whereof the Prophet sayth It shoulde rest vpon Christ who receyued the fame for the behoofe of his Churche and vs to be guided by Wee haue receiued sayth Saint Paule not the spirite of the worlde but the spirite which is of God that we may know the things which are giuē vs of God And the Anoynting which yee receiued of him dwelleth in you saith Saint Iohn and Yee neede not that any man teach you but as the same anoynting teacheth you of all things it is true and is not lying and as it taught you yee shall abide in him Agayne our Sauiour Christ It is written in the Prophetes And they shal be all taught of God A good and sure Schoolemaister is this Spirit of truth to lead vs into all trueth to bring into our remembrance whatsoeuer Christ hath tolde vs and to redresse and direct our wayes according to God his holy woorde which is the truth God only vouchsafe to 〈◊〉 our eares and to touche our heartes continually to heare beleeue and obey this truth Thus much in respect of some certaine for their better satisfiyng if it may be This matter beside the scriptures which may and ought to suffise hath 〈◊〉 and is diducted at large by some writers both olde and new as they are called where the same for them that list may be seen namely Augustine in his writings aforetime against the Donatists and such like wadeth herein very godly and wisely in my opinion and such godly men in our time also as write against Anabaptistes and y e like that are infected herein that I neede not to adde there vnto And besides I doe but here touch the same by the way as a caueat to preuent or cut of cauill and quarrelling if it may be hauing rather to occupie meselfe in answering the 〈◊〉 sarie at this time as one that what reason or answere soeuer other may be thought to haue and to make he surely his fellow Romanists haue very litle or none as who may be thought to haue beene in the orders of this Churche sufficiently if not too muche respected and borne with nowe aboue these twentie yeeres whiche may serue with all the worlde to our 〈◊〉 and the States 〈◊〉 here towardes these men And that a through and full reformation of the Church need not be forborne in respect of them I woulde this great and necessarie matter might as easily be obtayned which our sinnes onely let as it is not harde to answere what euer those fellowes can nowe alleadge for them selues Unto the examination therefore of this mans particular Reasons for refusall of comming to Church I nowe turne my selfe THE first Reason why I being a Catholike in minde may not goe to the Churches or seruice of the contrary Religion is because I perswading my selfe their doctrine to be false doctrine and consequently venemous vnto the hearer I may not venture my soule to bee infected with the same So that the firste proposition or grounde of this first reason to make it in forme of argument is this No man that perswadeth himselfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of Englande is false and venemous to the hearer may venture his soule to be infected therewith But euery Romane Catholike is a man that perswadeth him selfe the doctrine nowe professed and taught in the Church of England is false doctrine and venemous to the hearer Therefore no Romane Catholike may venture his soule to be infected therewith First Sir such Catholikes as are of contrary opinion vnto you herein for whose sake you wrote this discourse must you suppose will denie one of your two propositions finde shifts to auoyde all your proofes which will not bee harde to bee done for those of your religion But let them shift with you as they and you can agree I am no patrone of theirs I will speake and answere to the matter Therefore to this first Argument or Reason I answere that it is vayne and naught because it is grounded vpon opinion fancie and ones perswading of him selfe and doing after his perswasion and not vpon the matter and truth Nowe these two matters be diuers and doe differ much I perswade my selfe that such a thing is thus or so And such a thing in deed is thus or so The reason why because one may be and to often is deceiued in perswading himself of things otherwise then they be But the truth is alwaies one and 〈◊〉 not according to our perswasion neither 〈◊〉 thereon What if one perswade himselfe y t he is a Prince or haue a bag of money is he so or hath he it euer the more or euer the sooner for that neuer a whit sure Or if one perswade himself there is a snake in his bed shall he not sleepe neere it or if your fellow perswade himself you go about to deceiue him shall hee not trust you Surely our doing or not doing of thinges euen appertayning to this lyfe to haue the same well done must not depende vpon our own perswasion which is very changeable and vncertayne but our perswasion to doe any thing must depende rather vpon the trueth and goodnesse of the matter that wee minde to doe Otherwise one perswading him selfe that euery man hee shall meete will kil him may not venture to goe abroad about his 〈◊〉 nor come in the companie of any man perswading himselfe that what euer hee eate or drinke poysoneth him hee may not venture to eate nor drinke for being 〈◊〉 And so within a while die like a foole and be guiltie of his owne death because hee will not lay away his owne 〈◊〉 perswasion In religion and matters of 〈◊〉 is this argument much more 〈◊〉 vaine as y t which hath 〈◊〉 and doeth from Gods truth and is the mother and nurse of all superstition and 〈◊〉 So as if this disputer or reasoner will needes grounde this argument or reason vpon his perswasion yet must he giue seaue to 〈◊〉 the grounde of his perswasion whether it bee good or bad true or false And not say as he doth elsewhére that he will not dispute thereof but howe euer that bee the perswasion may not be done against be it true be it false First rather let him prooue the goodnes truth therof
message vttereth it with his owne wordes Wee crye out of the ryot c. Hee may issue from Pope Iohn the three and twentiethes spirit well inough as one of that broode for the agreement that is betweene both As for vs wee may not dislike nor maruel at this choyse of these fathers like Pope like spirite the rather for that wee reade that this foule and vnluckie birde I meane madge Howlet hath aforetime waited vpon the Pope and serued his vnholy holynesse euen in counsell as his familiar spirite whiche is as worshipfull an office I tell you as this carrier and letter bringer serueth in now howeuer the ill fauoured madge Howlet be wondred at among men or other birdes or be taken to be but an vnluckie messenger Let mee bee bolde with thee 〈◊〉 Reader for the satisfaction of some here vpon such resemblance and agreement betweene the parties and other circumstances to set downe the olde storie of the madge Howlet not taken out of newe writers of these dayes which yet haue faithfully and truely deliuered vs the same in wryting as to leaue other those reuerende and learned fathers Maister Iohn Bale in Latine and Maister Iohn Foxe in Englishe our owne Countrey men haue done Neuerthelesse though I agree with them and namely with Maister Foxes storie and allowe the same as fully agreeing heerein with the first Authour and truthe wrangle the aduersarie against those woorthie fathers worthye woorkes as much as he list yet haue I thought good to fetch this nowe out of a worthye Doctour and Archdeacon of our aduersaries owne Church called Nicholas de Clamengiis to whom maister Foxe honestly and truely sendeth vs and with whom also I sawe the booke This Nichol de Clamengiis liuing in the time whē the thing happened wrote the same His booke also was since printed publishd in a Popish time a popish place c. That I say nothing of Orthuinus Gratius cēsure thereon who being a popish priest yet in setting this forth amōg other things denieth not the truth heereof So as the aduersarie cannot easily cauil After this Archdeacon had declared the notoriousnesse of the matter and the good testimonie hee had thereof thus setteth he vs downe the storie aboue eight score yeeres since Balthasar Cossa sayth hee about foure yeeres since called a Councel at Rome c. Nowe at the entrie or before the first session of the 〈◊〉 when Masse for the holy Ghost as the manner is was done and the Councel nowe were set and Balthasar himselfe in a chayre prouided for him on high aboue the rest behold a foule vnluckie Owle which is alwayes a messenger of some corps or other misfortune as they say commeth out of his hole and flickering about with his shreeching noyse stayes himselfe vpon the midle beame of S. Martines temple where they sate in the Councell casting his brode eyes directly vppon Balthasar All there present fel in a wonderment that a night birde which shunneth the light came in the middes of the assembly at brode day light by which wonder and strange sight they did not without cause thinke some mischiefe to bee foreshewed Behold saide they one to another softly the spirit is come in the shape of an Owle And when the rest looking one on an other vpō Balthasar could scarsely forbear laugh ter Balthasar himself vpon whome alone this madge Howlet casting his eyes stedfastly looked did blushe for shame sweate for anger and fretted in his minde and at length not knowing how to helpe otherwise this his so great disgrace breaking vp the councell arose and went his way There followed after another session wherein againe after the same maner the madge Howlet though as I thinke not called failed not to bee present casting still his foule eyes vpon Balthasar which m. Howlet he seeing to be returned was not without iust cause more troubled and striken with shame than afore and not being able to abide the sight of the madge Howlet any longer he commanded him to be beaten away with libbets and clubbes and with crying noyse but M. Howlet neuer a whit disquieted either with their shreeching noyse or other disturbaunce woulde not flie away till with muche cudgeling at him being very sore beaten hee fell downe dead before them all These things saith our Authour learned I of a certaine faithfull and trustie friende who at that time came straight and directly from Rome of whiche I making doubt by reason of the strangenesse thereof my friende being very earnestly sworne Assured me hee told mee that was moste true and added further that all that were present were hereby brought into an vtter contempt disdaine and mocking of that councell and the whole companie by little and little falling away hee affirmed there was nothing at all there doone to any purpose Thus farre Clamengius cited very truely by maister Foxe For the Gentleman the authours worshipfull friende as hee speaketh if there be any suche and he not too farre gone I wish him to bee aduised and take heede what scholemaisters hee betake his conscience to be framed by the matter is of no small importance let him at leastwise without preiudicate opinion heare and reade both sides before hee iudge or thruste himselfe too farre ouer the shoes for our part what euer opinion the aduersaries bee of leauing the rest to hym that is aboue wee desire no more at his handes this is it wee haue from the beginning and many a day sought and requested If hee will heare this counsell hee shall first see that wee drawe him not from the Pope and Popishe religion to carry him to depende vppon any mortall man in the case of religion and conscience bee he neuer so high or mightie but only vppon the true and immortall God of heauen and his sacred mouth Next that wee propounde him not doctrines deuised by mans braine and after recōmended vnder title of the Church to intangle his cōscienee and without eyther grounde or good reason make him perplexed and doubtfull by subtill quidities and questions as these men doe but after we haue brought him to feede in the pleasant and sweete pasture and to drinke of the pure and liuely fountaine of Gods holy woorde which is the trueth hee shall see wee endeuour to vnwrap and vnfoulde his conscience from snares to quiet the same with the true peace of God teaching him to make conscience where God and his woorde woulde and no where els and to looke well to these two points in the case of conscience God may and doth make lawes to bynde conscience withall and onely God may deale therein and no mortall man muche lesse that man of sinne the Pope In summe the more precisely in these matters pertayning to his soules health he shall cleaue to God and his holye truth contayned in the Scriptures renouncing all sectes and partes of whomesoeuer aswell Pope as other the better shall he please I will not say
Heretikes and sectaries as you here report What fauour I praie you deserueth it at y t Queene of Englands hands if this bee true to haue filled her realme with 〈◊〉 and sectaries You plaine next of the good and wholsome lawes here made against poperie and of the execution thereof great cause I trowe if that were true ye falsly and sclanderously say more too Hereto you adioine for proofe certaine particular matters auowing the Loyaltie and obedience of you Catholikes towardes ciuill Princes and sharplie yea leawdlie by sclander charging other w t disobedience This is the some of that you write for the most part in eight of your next leaues A worthie matter to be treated of before her Maiestie when all is well waied But I must somewhat examine there is no remedie what you say a part and in order First you compare diuers religiōs together and shewe that poperie fareth hardely and the woorst Hardly sure can there be founde a worse religion and more contrarie to the sincere Gospell of Christ here professed or that so much troubleth the good and quiet estate of Christs Church in this lande and Realme and therefore needeth most looking too 3 THere are at this day in this your Maiesties Realme foure knowne religions and the professours thereof distinct both in name spirite and doctrine that is to say the Catholikes the Protestants the Puritanes and the housholders of loue Besides all other petie sects newly borne and yet groueling on the ground Of these foure sortes of men as the Catholikes are the first the auncientest the more in number and the most beneficiall to all the rest hauing begotten and bred vp the other and deliuered to them this Realme conserned by Catholike religion these thousand yeres and more so did they alwaies hope to receiue more fauour then the rest or at leastwise equall tolleration with other religions disalowed by the state But God knoweth it hath fallen out quite contrary For other religions haue been permitted to put out their heades to growe to aduaunce themselues in common speech to mount to pulpits with litle or no controulement But the Catholik religion hath been so beaten in with the terrour of lawes and the rigorous execution of the same as the very suspition thereof hath not escaped vnpunished FIrst let mee aske M. Howlet where you were when you wrote thus to her Maiestie you say in the beginning of these wordes in this your Maiesties Realme and in the latter ende againe this Realme Were you at Doway printing your book or occupied in Londō or els where in England about it the booke possible might be sēt to Doway or you bee printing it there another time shift it ouer I pray you Heere your wordes importe you were in Englande when you wrote this preface elsewhere in the same preface they import you were beyond Sea Alyar had neede haue a good memory sauing that you Catholiks can worke wonders and by coniuring make one and the same humane body to bee in many and diuers places at one time A man might make a doubt of this question but let y t passe When you would perticularly reckō vp y e seueral knowne religiōs not all approued nor allowed nay all disallowed condemned sauing that only one which is Iesus Christes but being onely in this Realme ye bring them into foure heads as for the petie sects that you are so priuie of as birds of your own hatching till they be fledge and come abroad that we may knowe them we can say little But your Popish religion M. Howlet were lesse vnhappie and both we the world should be lesse troubled with you nowe a daies if to speake but of religious men besides seculer priests among regulars it had but foure distinct religions and orders of beggerly fryers euery one stoutly standing against other in defence of his Patron and order of religion These be to to many and yet is the worlde troubled with a great many moe for besids the great swarines of these Locustes there be I wot not how many sectes or religions crept in so as the Popes them selues haue bin faine to restraine frō rashnes in instituting mo or newe religions for bringing in confusion And yet obserue gentle reader that the Pope hath authoritie to institute newe 〈◊〉 and none without his authoritie may doe the same obserue also that there be in Poperie old religions and newe religions c. It were 〈◊〉 long to speake of Canonists Schoolemen Thomists Scotistes and such other and the seuerall different opinions they holde but in the late dayes of Poperie here were there not sir as many religions and moe to besides your owne sectes Arrians Anabaptistes Libertines c. Though none in effect were persecuted but the poore Protestantes as ye call them These mens peculiar heresies in examinatiōs were commonly neuer touched peruse the recordes of these there was little or no accompt made in those dayes of ignorance and darkenes while men slept the enemy was busie in sowing his tares As you 〈◊〉 giue here names of sects to bring these times into hatred so all ambiguitie spitefulnes laid aside first take to your selues your religion some fitter name for true Catholiks we btterly denie you to be All are not Catholiks that take the name of Catholikes for so should the Arrians and other herettques in their time haue been Catholikes true Catholikes heretiques sectaries as antiquitie reporteth Under the name of Protestants ye comprehende all those y t forsaking the Pope Popish religion haue betaken thēselues to Christ and his holy Gospel grounding their religion vpō Gods word his heauenly truth comprised in the Canonical scriptures of the old newe Testament written by the Prophets Apostles and thereuppon are called in these tyntes Gospellers a fitter naine than that you call them by Protestants Of which religion and number wee acknowledge our selues to bee and thanke God for the same Cathari or Puritan heretiques I knowe none heere God bee thanked but I ghesse whome you meane Your Authour 〈◊〉 the whotter sorte of Protestants are called Puritans Nowe supposing their religion that you call the Protestants to bee the trueth of God as it is indeede and that you that will bee called Catholikes like not but condemne colde Catholikes as badde ones and require zeale and feruentnesse I pray you tel vs euen in your consciēce if Protestants bee to bee allowed whether sorte of 〈◊〉 are to be liked the whotter or the colder yet such still that ye abuse not your self as with their zeale carry ioine godly knowledge It is good to bee zealous in a good thing alwaies saith the holy Ghost And you wot what is said to them of Laodicea in the Reuelat. for that they were luke warme neither cold nor whot that they shoulde bee spued out We hope that if you whot Catholikes wil allow any Protestāts y e poore
with victorie the ambitious with honor the couetous with monie c. scripture diuines to agree with this hellike doctrine God forbidde Wee haue better Schoole maisters then so thankes bee to God Euery good giuing and euery perfect gift is from aboue and commeth downe from the Father of lyghts c. euen to this father of glory must we pray for this gyft of wisedome and reuelation through the knowledge of him that the eyes of our vnderstanding may bee lightened that wee may knowe what the hope is of his calling c. It is a seconde grace and gyfte that I may so speake aboue and beyonde nature and the lyght thereof or eche mans vnderstandyng Your Saint Thomas if you woulde haue consulted but with him would haue tolde you as muche Searche the Scriptures Are yee not therefore deceyued because ye knowe not the Scriptures c. sayth our Sauiour Christ heare him As all poyntes of Diuinitie and Religion woulde bee grounded on Gods booke and the Scriptures not vpon the Philosophers and Rhetorique so especially when there is question of conscience or of doing or not doing thereafter in matters of religion shoulde wee haue recourse vnto that heauenlye 〈◊〉 but yee say The Scripture and Diuines agree to this sentence of the Philosopher when they say That we shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie our of conscience Make this sentence playner and expound it not by the first least both fall out to be very false very pernitious the better of the two make of it what you can is very perplexed darke and doubtfull at least as you set it downe and followe it This may be propounded in lecture among you by him that is your publike reader in the cases of conscience but wee haue seene to muche of your Schoole diuinitie and diuelishe doctrine in conscience to haunte your Romishe lectures or receiue that is therein taught and professed Our senses are better acquainted with the phrases of the Scriptures If this latter sentence be all one with the other and first cited out of Aristotle thē might you haue spared your Philosophers Rhetoricall sentence and rested vpon this whiche yee pretende to take out of the Scripture and Diuines The heauenly Scripture hath no neede of mans wisedome to bee vnderstood sayth one but 〈◊〉 y t reuelation of y t spirit but first I tel you I find not y t words ye set vs downe in those Scriptures whiche yee quote vs in the margin yee tell vs of beeing iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience yee sende vs to 2. Cor. 1. and to 1. Iohn 3. The Apostle in the place ye poynt vs speaketh more particularly of the testimony of a good conscience onely and of his owne that hee had in this worlde his wordes bee these Our reioycing is this the testimony of our conscience that in simplicitie and godly purenes not by fleshly wisedome but by the grace of God we haue had our conuersation in the worlde c. Marke here that Saint Paul had his conuersation in the worlde not directed by his owne vnderstanding As your Philosophical sentence pretendeth not by fleshly wisdome but by the grace of God in simplicitie and godly purenes The testimonie of suche a conscience is a goodly matter and to bee reioyced in in deede let it bee if you will a 〈◊〉 feast c. And this is the oddes here betweene a heathen and a Christian life yet doth not the Apostle in this place saye generally that wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience neither yet of him selfe sayth hee so muche speaking of the testimonie of his own conscience Though I deuy not but y t faithful being receiued 〈◊〉 by gods mercy ingraffed into Christ by faith shall haue matter of 〈◊〉 in a good conscience in wel doing euen at the last day But you carry it further The Apostle in another place speaking of his fidelitie in his Ministerie and of a better conscience still then you seeme hereto note sheweth yet a higher Iudge rather and more sharper of sight who will iudge him more thoroughly then according to his owne vnderstanding and conscience Nay as one that durste not iustifie him selfe though his conscience charged him with nothing in his function hee reiecteth that iudgement from himselfe and from all men also as vnfitte and vnsufficient vnto the Lorde himselfe who at his comming will lighten thinges that are hidde in darkenesse and make the counsailes of the hearts manifest The other place yee cite to shewe wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to our conscience is out of Saint Iohns Epistle where thus it is written I must ghesse because yee neyther set downe the wordes nor the verse For thereby that is by louing in deede and truth wee knowe that we are of the truth and shall before him assure our heartes For if our heart condemne vs God is greater then our heart and knoweth all things Beloued if our heart condemne vs not then haue wee boldnesse towarde GOD. Here the Apostle speaketh of that boldnesse and enterance with confidence that the faithfull here haue towardes God by Christ Iesus and by fayth in him of the benefite thereof whiche as by a certaine marke is expressed by true and vnfaygned loue and of the lacke of this full perswasion againe what a losse it is here is nothing spoken of our being iudged at the last day according to our conscience And this is all I finde of this matter in the places of Scripture here alleadged For the Diuines that ye talke of because yee quote vs Augustin alone for all sende vs to two places 〈◊〉 him and the matter is not great what is there saide I referre it to the learned Readers iudgment that is disposed to examine the places You report heere bring in Austin for proofe that wee shall bee iudged at the last day according to the testimonie of our conscience Where Austin speaketh not of the iudgement of the last day in neither of both the Chapters Consult therefore with them from whome ye tooke these places that they may appoint you fitter for the purpose or you better followe the simplicitie and sinceritie of the sacred Scriptures If yee say Austin name conscience or speake a worde thereof in both the Chapters I graunt you 〈◊〉 you must remember with all that euery thing may not be gathered of euery worde The two places much agree the first yee recite hath relatiō to the latter hee saith not that whiche you speake heere Againe speaking very briefly as for a conclusion of his first booke of Christian doctrine Of this sentence of S. Paul The end of the commaundement is loue out of a pure hearte and of a good conscience and of faith vnfained hee sheweth wherefore the Apostle put in that
to recouer it Notwithstanding any prohibition of her maiesties by proclamation c yee can and doe write print publishe and scatter your bookes and sedicious libels still although with little vantage and I hope shall with lesse still euery day then other for now you beginne to take in hand not so much to improue our religion or to proue your owne as to inueigh against the ciuill state to confute her Maiesties lawes Actes of Parliament proclamations c. These be fit argumēts for your wise politike head to treate of Such is the respect ye haue to her maiesty y e state your dutie of obedience herein Thinke not M Howlet they be afrayde of you without all cause nowe that when the time was if euer offered your side disputation which your men then refused as I sayde howe and vpon what occasion not they onely but her Maiestie the state and honorable here can very well tell the thing was not done in hucker mucker It seemeth now aboue twentie yeres after that time out of season to craue disputation yet tel me I pray you M. Howlet one thing whether if your request and your fellowes were graunted of Disputation before her Maiestie or such as her highnes should please to appointe thereto if it should so fall out by Gods prouidence that yee should take a fayre fall in the wrestle at your aduersaries hands her maiestie or the other appointed geuing sentence against you would yee acknowledge yee had a fall no nor yet that yee were foyled would yee yeelde and geue ouer your romish profession it is no parte of your meaning I feare me you would plaine of disorder and want of indifferencie and competent iudges c. Some thing or other you would finde to shift of the matter as yee did in the former conference would yee or would yee not What gayned you by that you say You knowe you cannot bee vanquished herein you make no doubt but that Gods truth is clere on your side Indeede there is the matter it is easier to cast you downe than to stop your mouthes If yee cannot dispute yet can you braule and wrangle that is not harde to be done it is an arte easily learned among you For disputation sirs to leaue the disputation in the happie dayes of her maiesties raigne and other long ago to note onely one time were they not of our side that in conuocation in queen Maries dayes disputed with the greatest clarkes of your side when your men ruffled and ruled the rost was not the like agayne done at Oxenford by those reuerende fathers of our side which neuer came thence after but sealed in your vniuersitie after disputation that truth with their bloodes which they had before preached and taught why set you vs not out these disputations truely that the worlde maye see them You are ashamed as seemeth Seeing you write and printe dayly If Gods truth be so clere on your side Why haue ye not al this while set it vs downe in steed of your seditious pāphlets Or why doe ye not yet set it vs downe in your books ye sēd so fast ouer amōg vs cōtaining in maner now a daies nothing but braules grēning groining snarring against the state and her 〈◊〉 wholesome lawes proclamations c for repressing of poperie superstition sedicious and rebellious vsage and dealing that we might haue some fit matter for our profession to answeare more than hath beene alreadie seene wayed and answered furbushing nowe and then vp as hādsomely as you can your rusty stuffe you geue vs but woordes onely without matter your coine that carrieth the Popes marke being brought to the touch and waightes is by long and often triall found to bee a counterfaited coine in steede of good siluer it is knowne to be baser than copper when we waigh and trie by Gods truth that you would haue vs takefor good gold in al the offers yee make vs we finde nothing but drosse Let vs not bring guilefull ballances sayth your cannon Lawe out of Ierome where to weigh that we wil after our owne pleasure saying this is heauie this is light but let vs bring gods ballance of holy scriptures as out of the Lordes treasures and let vs therein weigh what is heauier c. Your reasons in sumine thus waied are nothing but colourable wordes and shewe which in this cleere light of the Gospell wil not satisfie nor serue In vaine therefore seemeth to be your petition your replication explanation supplication your earnest vrging by frendship by request by letters to diuers preachers c. which I thinke is as false as that you report here of the dealing therin with the Byshop of London and thereupon you did well to put it in that parenthesis Ifye be not deceiued As in little or nothing yee be otherwise You forget greatly M. Howlet with whom you deale and to whome you write You make great vauntes and in words offer much you perfourme in deed nothing In your margin is quoted An humble demande of disputation You bring vs that foorth often we know this geare so well at the first sight now as we cannot easily be deceiued It is not the setting on of a fayre glosse or glosing the matter that will nowe serue Is the trueth cleere on your side Why call you it in controuersie then why so earnestly demand and seeke you for disputation for resolution of mens doubtes c. If yee demand conference for your satisfaction or to resolue your doubtes you haue not beene refused nay you haue beene and are still offred it yee are sought vpon and the best of your side here refuse it That may be priuately done if that be your end and some good come thereof But ye demaunde publike disputation yee are earnest therein ye demaunde it againe and againe what is the reason Why woulde you so faine haue publike disputation There must be some honest and necessary end alleadged there must be also by her 〈◊〉 appointmente some Moderators and some order lawefully to proceede therein First haue you talked with the rest of your side are yee all ageed vpon the sute to her Maiestie humbly to desire publike disputations Next if this bee the ende of disputation as you say for the tryall of Gods truth that mens doubtes may bee resolued most necessary for you all to your eternall saluation Will ye then being required yeelde to Gods truth when your doubtes shall bee resolued and sufficiently resolued by the Scriptures and y t in the iudgement of her 〈◊〉 who by Gods appointment hath the moderating of the whole in this realme And in the iudgement of the State here wil you of that side not stand any longer obstinat in your former opinions but giue ouer as Gods faithfull seruants to his truth become professors of the Gospell of Christ abiuring all erroneous and Popish fancies Rearing your religion out of Gods holy booke the sacred
scriptures directing ruling your consciences thereby On the other side againe wyll you as honest dutifull Subiects renouncing all forraigne power of Prelate Prince or Potentate whatsoeuer betake your selues hence forwarde to bee gouerned by her Maiestie and the temporall lawes of this lande and such Statutes as for the good and peaceable guiding thereof be by her Maiestie the State made agreed vpon in the high court of 〈◊〉 according to the order of this Realme What say you to this condition I aske you because I am in doubt whether you will in the ende stand to the resolution and iudgement of her Maiestie the State herein Nor to any in deed but vnto your Pope your selues and yet had yee neede I tell you resolue be resolued in this point before you make sute to her maiestie so earnest sute to haue publike disputation as wherevpon your eternall saluation dependeth c. And to this point answere hardly in your next writing for in this Epistle DEDICATORIE your wordes hetherto seeme to imploy som cōtradictiō in this matter or els your sute seemeth yf not hollowly yet cunningly made to your vantage but preiudiciall and perillous to this quiet and peaceable state setled nowe aboue these xxii yeeres together in this kind of gouernement of reiecting the authoritie of the Pope of Rome and Popish religion and receiuing the profession of the Gospel and acknowledging her Maiesties Royall soueraigntie ouer all States and degrees All which is wel and sufficiently warranted and maintained by the expresse testimonie of Gods holy worde and the wholesome lawes of this Realme as hath beene and is still both for the one the other by proofe published to the viewe of all the worlde You M. Howlet and your late start vp Iesuites and other English Romanistes or Rhemistes to be plaine with you are too weake in the shoulders God haue the glory to take in hande by disputation or otherwise to vndermine or shake this Godly State or to prooue your owne cause good Yee are but princockes and babes for the most part in comparison of those of your side aforetime that stoode in the front of the battaile whose force yet God be thanked haue beene well tryed and met with all It is vnto you a harde 〈◊〉 of the decay and vtter ruine shortly to fall vpon your huge Antichristian kingdome as that was an after demonstration in the Poet Naeuius that Tullie mencioneth when newe Oratours foolish young men arise and take in hande the administration of the common wealth who were wont so to bragge of gray haires olde men c. Yea 〈◊〉 is that that hath alreadie beene a great part of the vndoing ofit on your behalfes Young men I speake not to reproch age nor to touche towardly youth may haue good heades fresh memorie quicke sight sharpe wit ioly art and prompt and readie tongues and wordes at will which thinges if they bee well applyed wherein is all haue their commendation as in young men But in heauenly matters Gods truth reuealed in his written worde his feare a setled vnderstanding and iudgement framed by Gods holy spirite ioyned with simplicitie and sinceritie in Christes religion and a reuerent humble minde to Godwarde directed alwayes by the sacred Scriptures in young or olde are a great deale more worth and yet by your vaunt you seeme to trust much to the other and thereupon are you so earnest for disputation Of your vaine Scholasticall disputations and arguments pro contra that can make quidlibet ex quolibet or as wee speake Make men beleeue that the Moone is made of greene cheese or that the Crowe is white by your sophistrie The Churche of God to the hurt thereof hath had too great experience afore time and the faithfull at this day see but too muche of this stuffe in your subtill Doctor Scotus your Angelicall Doctors Quodlibetal questions and in numbers of bookes of that stampe We haue beene faithfully warned by the holy ghost to take heed of admitting that kind of dealing a great while since namely in Saint Paules Epistles to Timothie And in deed by tryall we find dayly that by wrangling iangling and vaine disputiug the truth commonly goeth to wracke and is lost besides other inconueniences that arise thereby There be other meanes to try out the truth by then this This kinde of exercise vnlesse it bee very soberly kept and vsed with great moderation is very dangerous in matters of diuinitie And yet God be thanked for his gifts you may be and are euen in this exercise matcheable and to bee matched if neede were with your equals heere at home You that make these great bragges were but yesterday to talke of in Oxeford you haue left your fellowes and your betters too behind you in Oxeford Cābrige abrod also if you will giue other besides your selues leaue to iudge but let vs heare what you tell vs more of y e particulars for you offer also of your liberalitie two other wayes of dealing besides publike disputation These are your wordes 15 ANd as for the particulars wee shall easily agree with them For wee offer all these three wayes both iointly and seuerally that is either by trying out the truthe by briefe scholasticall arguments or by continuall speeche for a certaine space to be allotted out the other part presently or vpon studie to answere the same or finally by preaching before your Maiestie or where els your Maiestie shall appoint And for our safeties we aske nothing els but only your Maiesties worde set downe vnto vs in no ampler maner then the Councell of Trent made the safe conduct to our aduersaries which they notwithstanding refused to accept But I hope they shall see that wee will not refuse or mistrust your Maiesties worde if we may once see it set downe by proclamation or otherwise by letters pattents for our safetie but that within 80. dayes after by the grace of God wee shall appeare before your highnesse with what danger soeuer to our liues otherwise for the try all of Gods truth which we make no doubt but to be cleare on our side 16 If our aduersaries refuse this offer they shall shewe too muche distrust in their owne case for it is with great labour perill and disaduantage on our partes and on their sides nothing at all I woulde they durst make but halfe the like offer for their comming hyther on this side the Seas it shoulde bee most thankefully taken and they with great safetie and all gentle intreatie disputed withall aud made to see as I presume their owne weakenesse But seeing this is not to bee hoped for wee relye vpon the other beseeching your Maiestie most humbly instantly that our iust demaund may be graunted for the tryall of Gods truth most necessary for vs all too our eternall saluation YEE talke vnto vs of three wayes of conference both ioyntly and seuerally as yee speake but all must
Rome and Romane which be particular wordes restraining the word Catholike wee are content to call it with your fellowe M. Howlet in his EPISTLE DEDICATORIE the Christian Catholike Religion or the holy catholike and Apostolike Religion of the first Instrumentes and Planters thereof as wee see set vs downe in their writinges or such like speech for the knowledge distinction and triall of our religion we refuse not We are not wedded to one forme of words in that that may be diuersely expressed as in time and with time tearmes and speeches that for a time serue men varie but we woulde auoide cloudie ambiguitie in speech if this I haue now spoken of be the true religion ye receiue embrace and beeleeue we doe so with you and you with vs that is wee agree But vnderstand withall that hereby we ouerthrowe all Poperie and Popish religion as we doe Anabaptistrie and all other false religions whatsoeuer deuised and erected by men not warranted by Gods holy written worde call ye the same Romane Italian Germane French Spanish English Scottish or what else you will where and of whome soeuer it be professed all is one either it is that I haue here shortly described or els it is false and naught The true and Christian catholike religion is not tyed to any certaine place person or time but belongeth indifferently to all the Faithful in al ages and in all places eyther therfore tel vs whether you meane by the catho like Romane religion that Religion which the faithful people dwelling at Rome helde in the time of the Apostles To whom S. Paule the Apostle of vs Gentiles and so of the Romanes wrote the epistle extant and entituled to the Romanes as he did diuers other to particular churches of y e Gentiles as y t thē was hauing yet beleeuing Iewes among them Or if you take it other wise make y e religiō you meane first agree with that religion which those Romanes then helde and were instructed in which was all one with that of the Ephesians Phillipians Thessalonians and other Churches planted by the Apostles and with ours now or ours rather is one with theirs the which is expressed vnto vs in their writinges whereto we sticke and not to the places and people or persons that haue succeeded which all haue greatly swarued since frō y t they then were Or else if you like not to call your religion to this triall keepe your supposition to your selfe as false til you haue prooued the matter for we cannot to be plain w t you nor we may not receiue the Romane religion as it is at this day and hath beene now some hundreths of yeres for the Truth much lesse for y e only truth vnlesse we mind withal to quite abandō God his eternal Truth expressed vnto vs as his reuealed will that is in the canonicall Scriptures of the olde and newe Testament which is commonly called The holy byble as directly contrary to your Romane and Popish religion at this day as white is to black Truth to Falshood Christ to Antichrist God to the Diuell wherof let that booke be the iudge betweene vs. Looke whose religion that booke will iustifie looke whose it will condemne that doe we likewise iustifie or condemne by what name soeuer it be called what coulour or shewe soeuer bee set vppon it wee must bring it to that triall It is not the name of traditions It is not vnwritten verities It is not multitude c which be the props and pillers of your Romane church and religion that can call vs from the infallible written Truth of God howeuer therefore your glosed and false supposition maye satisfie your side or serue a glosed and false religion it cannot serue this church and state you may not looke to haue it by and by receiued of the Queenes most excellent maiestie of the honourable Lordes of her priuie counsaile and other the godly learned wise of englād You might think y t could not nor would not perswade so godly and honourable personages that is meeter for the ignorant sort and fooles you must lay a better foundatiō you must bring better euidence before your Reasons can conuince Suppositions shoulde be certaine principles and euident truthes not so manifest falshoode as this is to be receiued without proofe wee can not suppose at least we cannot knowe that is not I wishe therefore ye had trauailed in proouing this captious and false supposition that after your reasons might haue come the better to their effect end of cōuincing or we seen your feeble weakenes in your cause But that you were not able to perfourme you thought best to suppose and occupie your selfe in flourishing with shew of 〈◊〉 reasons groūded on false principles rather then forciblye to prooue or to reason soundly But Aristotle could haue tolde you that in Art of reasoning thus to doe is to make a Paralogisme or in plainer english to speake it is a kinde of iugling and of false and naughtie dealing Suppose not that the Romane religion as it is at this day is the onely old religion and all other newe The religion we professe is as truer so older than your newe Romane religion As Christ his Apostles and their writings are before those vpon whom and whose writings you would haue vs to depend It may bee in some kinde that your olde vesselles be not fit to receiue this newe 〈◊〉 If the vessels breake though the wine be spilt yet the vessels perish I counsaile you therefore to bring newe vessels and newe heartes that the newe wine beeing put into newe vessels both may be preserued rather then that you abhorre and reiect the newe wine because it agreeth not with your olde leaking vessels An olde ragged coate An olde rotten tree An old decayed house c. If you will needs sticke vpon old and newe are not the best and moste to bee commended you knowe Please not your selfe therefore so much in these tearmes But leaue them and goe to the matter Let Gods booke still I say be iudge betweene vs for the thinges you bring foorth and the thinges we bring and there an end Wee purpose and hope for religion to liue and dye with that booke For your Catholikes you say there are two sortes and yet if I can iudge ought yee make three first you tell vs of such as be so wicked and their case so damnable as yee minde not to intreate of them then you tell vs of another sort of Catholikes for whome this Treatise was made to reforme their persuasion builded as you say only vppon their owne fantasie Yee might as well haue vsed your owne phrase of Conscience if it had pleased you though indeede for abusing the good worde of conscience false persuasiō or fancy were euerie where fitter for you all in your profession Thirdly you make yet an other sort of catholikes besides these two and them you call the onely true Catholikes which
else must he heare from vs that whiche the Galatians 〈◊〉 themselues amisse sometimes 〈◊〉 from S. Paule This perswasion is not of him that calleth you c. Or to shewe the vanitie of the reason in an example of his owne alleadged here Let vs propounde that If dame Eue saith hee had not presumed to heare the serpent talke shee had not beene beguiled But if shee say I delighting in the tree forbidden to satisfie her eye and desire had not perswaded her selfe that the Serpentes talke had beene the trueth and so perswading her husbande also to leaue the truth of Gods worde to beleeue fansie and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lie brought him to obey her voice as shee did the Serpents they had not eaten of the fruite for bidden and so had not wrapped themselues and vs in miserie Then the neerer cause and Reason whereby both Adam and Eue were beguiled and the more proper that we neede not run farre off was the false perswasion they had and admitted vpon the Serpents talke against Gods expressed woorde and commandement whiche to make like your reason thus I 〈◊〉 Dame Eue perswading her selfe the tree was good for meate and to be desired to get knowledge and her husbande by her meanes the like might not venture to lacke lease so great a good benefite or might not venture 〈◊〉 do the contrary which shee he perswaded themselues was euill to them Adde you the rest if ye like to make this a good Reason for I answer you that it is very like to yours and all one in effect which is grounded likewise vpon 〈◊〉 and that a false vaine and dangerous 〈◊〉 contrary to the truth the scriptures phrase 〈◊〉 this case is good I am perswaded through the Lord c. In religion let vs learne to speake religiously with this religious Apostle c. Remember I pray you that I am the answerer and if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yee can proue no better then thus I suppose ye knowe the order of the Schooles you may be 〈◊〉 answered for all the great bragges bee made of your dexteritie and skill in briefe scholasticall arguments Because you are such a Reasoner to conuince and so great bragges is made of this Treatise besides you say your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 desire 〈◊〉 is onely to giue some 〈◊〉 to them in Englande especially to her Maiestie the right honourable her counsel the learned and wise in Englande c. I aske of you ouer and aboue that I haue sayde to M. Howlet your fellow when you will make this a good syllogisme or Reason you know what I meane to conuince or to satisfie any y t is of a contrary iudgemēt vnto you I say not her highnes her graue and honorable wise coūsellers which are not so easily led as you in your muses and studdes imagin but any meane learned man of a contrary religion vnlesse one will suppose and imagine your propositions to be principles as your 〈◊〉 doth so doubte of nothing ye say or let your proofe bee an asking of the principle which is Sophistrie and no good Logique Let your compagnions and fellowes tell you what they will or let this argument and reason serue those that are already perswaded in your false religion and so neede no Reasons to conuince them Summe bragge or crowe like a Cocke vpon your owne dunghill as much as ye will I that 〈◊〉 but a simple rude man not many a day of any Uniuersitie and so not comparable with the learned and freshe Uniuersitie disputers will yet boldely heere make you this offer that keeping your propositions if you make not an Elench or fallacion of this I may say the like in the rest that is a starke naughtie Reason or a badde Syllogisiue consisting onely of particulars or of foure termes as they speake c. Briefely if you make in good mode and figure to prooue and conuince by not faultie in matter or fourme or in both let me be the answerer and I will yeelde you the whole cause You heare a playne mans offer Buckle your selfe to it take the vantage but it wil make you sweat ere you come to the end or can perfourme it you must seeke a newe midle terme as they speake in Schooles and newe propositions to confirme and proue your 〈◊〉 or else 〈◊〉 with your owne fellowes onely and stay 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 supposition but howe euer they easily yeelde to false propositions and 〈◊〉 wee can not suppose falshod to bee Truth and 〈◊〉 falshod And sure then can not 〈◊〉 proceede in reasoning against vs to conclude that you woulde haue false propositions wee can not nor will not admit True will not serue your turne you knowe the Logique rule Truth can not proue falshod wee can defende easily enough against all Sophistrie in the worlde that the Crowe is blacke and not white And thankes bee vnto God for his vnspeakeable gyft as it is harde for you to proue Poperie to be the truth and Popishe religion to bee the true Catholique religion So is it on the other side easie for vs to mayntayne and cleare the truth and the profession of the Gospel against all your cauilling Reasons So as one might 〈◊〉 at your impudencie and with what faces you dare presume to make your great bragges and chalenges in these learned dayes But you are knowne well enough you dare doe what you 〈◊〉 to doe and pretend one thing and meane another I am the bolder at the entrance here to mention this that the reader may knowe what he shall 〈◊〉 if hee list to enter into examination of your 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 we see the foundation of your first Reason howe darkely it is layed vpon a false perswasion whereof if the reader list to heare farder what I say he must haue 〈◊〉 to that I haue written ther of against M. Howlet before and you all touching erronious conscience and the bonde thereof Though the foundation of this Reason thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it may bee seene that it can not 〈◊〉 yet let 〈◊〉 heare what this Reasoner sayth therof further Hauing 〈◊〉 himselfe our doctrine to bee false and consequently venemous to the hearer and so may not venture his soule to be infected He rendreth a reason to conuince and proue I trowe For saith hee as it is damnable for a man to kil himselfe and consequently deadly 〈◊〉 without iust cause to put his body in 〈◊〉 danger of death so is it much more offensiue to God to put my soule ten thousande times of more value then my body in danger to the deadly stroke of false 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Note this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He doth wel to set his marginal note to expresse his meaning we might else by his much more haue iudged it to haue beene a comparison and so taken from another place in Logique whereby thinges greater lesse or equall bee compared together But let that goe for the forme and kinde of
many waies Examine the doctrine of those ye name and ye shall finde it was in the world before Luther was borne Then maye you not say they al sprung of that first sect of Lutherans and they of Luther So as if Luther had not beene heard there had not beene now in the world any of them c. Consult but with N. Sanders and tell vs from him whether Adamians and Adamites Trinitaries c. were not their doctrine professed in the worlde before Luther was borne how then sprung they all thence how know you their would not be at this day one in the world of them if Luther had not beene hearde M. Howlet sayth Wickliffe was one of the progenetours of some of these yee heere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hee was many and many dayes beefore Luther was borne How then is that true you heere affirme Heere is a large fielde to walke in but let vs passe ouer it If in England at this day her Maiestie and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 higher for their profession and religion then Luther I 〈◊〉 you will shut all them out of this heape of 〈◊〉 not charge them to haue had the beginning of Luther sprung thence otherwise you doe them wrong But 〈◊〉 doe so that is 〈◊〉 higher leaue therefore charging with these names 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 deuised and called 〈◊〉 by you You playe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 heede of 〈◊〉 spirite that saide he woulde be a lying spirite in the mouth of the Prophets Ye take vpon you to tell not onely what had beene in the worlde nowe if Luther had not beene hearde a great while since But as though you were yet nearer and more 〈◊〉 of Gods councell ye wrap men in eternall damnation yet aliue and presume to tell what sentence shall bee giuen vpon these and these men at the day of iudgement Great and rash is your audacitie in this behalfe It is happie Sir you haue not euerlasting fier at commaundement to flashe and fling amongst vs at your pleasure nor a throne yet set you to giue sentence like a iudge in this case You will needes be a Prophet and you tell vs what you haue persuaded your selfe but we tell you againe many a man persuades himselfe in his dreame of many thinges 〈◊〉 when he awaketh he findeth to be false and vaine we y t stand by seeing you in a dreame iog you as hard as we can wee put you in remembrance what he saith Awake thou that sleepest stand vp 〈◊〉 the dead and Christ shal giue thee 〈◊〉 If that will not serue to doe you good then for the 〈◊〉 of others we say The Prophet that hath 〈◊〉 dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath my word let him speake my worde faithfully what is the chaffe to the wheate saith the Lorde But Syr if the talke of our side be so greatly to be auoyded and it be so dangerous for you your fellowes and such 〈◊〉 to giue our side the hearing whence commeth it ye so earnestly now seeme to sue to her Maiestie that you may heare vs talke and reason the matter with vs for otherwise we cannot Preache answere or vse 〈◊〉 a certaine space continuall speech whervnto M. Howlet in all your names prouoketh To conclude this part we may iustly say to you herein if none had giuen eare to the Serpentes talke in your Antichristian 〈◊〉 if the Church 〈◊〉 a virgin had not been presented to an other to be corrupted but kept pure to her one and owne husbande Christe as the holy Ghost by the Apostle witnesseth shee shoulde be as for whom alone she is prepared and 〈◊〉 if an other then Christes Gospell had not beene preached and receiued Popery had not now been in the worlde nor yet should the same be troubled with papists as it nowe is c. Let the Reader consider that whiche the Apostle writeth to the Corinthians And let them that haue any zeale to Christes Churche here shew and vse the same in cleering it from Popish corruptions and restoring it to the simplicitie that is in Christe In the next and second Reason you are muche in Scandale I wel wote not why ye so purposedly leaue here that english worde of offence but let that goe Here you exaggerate here you amplifie here you set out the sinne of scandale like an Oratour In a thing not doubtfull you spend vnnecessary florishes of proofes you paint and set out your iudgement to the ix degree And all of your scandale and scandalizing vsing the same in some textes where you finde it not such loue are ye in w t this new English worde scandale And thus you reason All scandale is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c A 〈◊〉 going to our 〈◊〉 is scandale 〈◊〉 to be 〈◊〉 c. As in the former reason so here is it not hard to turne this in truth vpon you and your religion goe you vpon persuasion and supposition as much and as long as you will The thing is 〈◊〉 and well done by the sacred scriptures of those of our 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 it vnlawfull to goe to your abhominable Masse and Idolatrous and superstitious Latine Seruice I haue heere to answere your argument in explanation and proofe of your first proposition you are busily occupied and deuide scandale into three partes The first is by 〈◊〉 any to 〈◊〉 by doing or saying that which is naught The second by doing a thing in it selfe lawefull the thirde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the enimie The whole is doone neither scholastically 〈◊〉 nor plainely but let vs admit this your diuision and that you say of scandale in generall Let vs examine your Hypothesis or second or next proposition and the application of the whole particularly wherein I tell you you fault and faile And I say your second and middle proposition ACatholikes going to our church is scandale is false and you shall neuer be able to prooue it For this Reason there fore bend your self to doe that or els you doe nothing That you nowe say doth it not We graunt that for the first point to giue offence by euill doing or speaking in life or doctrine c is a heynous sinne ye might haue spared your trauel in that point we admit your examples one and other here because they beset vs in the Canonicall Scriptures and agreeable to that heauenly doctrine Your application is naught It wyll be very right well when you apply all to your side and corrupt religion You are like 〈◊〉 Priestes in the olde law like the Moabites you are Prophets like Balaam and very like to Ieroboam that ye cite out of the Scriptures in inducing to sinne to Idolatrie and superstition which is easily followed and craftily vnder couert of wordes by you broched couloured The example ye bryng out of 〈◊〉 no lesse perteineth to you Cyprians very wordes well considered will prooue it who in Christendome bring vp their youth in ignorance more then you Who persuade there the
Councell No verily Let matter with matter saith he cause with cause Reason with reason pleade by the authorities of the scriptures not proper witnesses of euery bodie but common to both c. This am I the bolder with the Reader to set downe that we may see your skill and trust in citing the fathers If one should followe all he should make great volumes which I doubt whether for your pleasures it bee necessarie For the diuels talke with Christ how I pray you did our 〈◊〉 confute him was it not by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 afore I sayde Augustine did the heretike Yes yes still and all by the scriptures so necessary and profitable 〈◊〉 are they say or thinke you what you will Though we finde not for that which followeth the wordes in Hierome where ye sende vs to seeke them yet because it may be the fault of the Printer I presse it not you shoulde haue prooued and shewed vs to be heretikes before ye should haue applied that to our seruice supposition is a bare proofe and serueth not The strange howling as of wolues and bellowing noyse of mad Bullockes that in your Synagogues you make by your piping and singing in a strange tongue in that you call your diuine seruice seemeth to bee liuely expressed by Hierome both in this sentence and elsewhere also when vppon these wordes of the Prophet Amos Take from me the confused noyse of thy Hymnes I will not heare the musicke of thy Organes that worde doeth Hierome set downe according to the Septuagints translation The Prayer sayth he of the Iewes and the Psalmes whiche they sing in their Synagogues and the heretikes curious and set hymne or prayer as one would say artificially done with descant and quauering is a trouble vnto the Lord that I may so speake it is the grunting of a hog and the braying of Asses c And in the new Testament vpon these wordes of the Apostle Singing and making melodie vnto the Lord Let them heare saith Hierome whose office it is to sing in the Church that God is to bee sung to not with voice but with heart and that their throate and iawes are not to be annointed and cleered with oyntmēts like players that measure and stagelike noise and songues maye by hearde in the Churche but in feare in deede in knowledge of the scriptures although there be some man as they are wonte to speake of an euell brest or voyce If hee haue good woorkes hee is a sweete singer with God Let the seruant of Christ so sing that not the voyce of the singer but the wordes that are read may delight and please c. Thus much out of Hierome whome ye cite vpon occasion of wolues howling and the bellowing noise of mad bullockes that the reader may see whether the same and the like agree better with your curious pricksong and descant in your latin seruice or with our moderate and plain singing of Dauid his Psalines in the mother tongue Hee that is desirous to see more how fitly your wanton and fleshly melodie or roring rather in your Popish Churches is represented by Hierom. Let him looke vpon Cornelius Agrippa Erasmus Polidore Virgil and such like who euen in our time so great plained of y t vnreasonable brutishe disorder in your popish Churches and namely heere in England for that is by expresse wordes noted of Erasmus Yee cite Augustin here twise together and still of the Donatist Heretikes it was the first place ye cited in the entrance of your discourse how litle to purpose we there examined wee tel you againe again we are neither donatists nor other heretikes that shoulde you haue bent your selfe first to haue prooued that these testimonies might haue seemed to haue beene 〈◊〉 applied as that vnprooued and so is like to remaine they iustly maye nowe bee applyed to you Betweene your two places here alleadged out of Augustine the same Augustine vpon the words of Dauid I cryed vnto the Lorde sayeth well and that to the Donatiste Crye you to the Lorde not to Donatus So say we to you popishe Heretikes Crye to the Lorde not to this Patrone and that which you haue made to your selues not to this canonized Saint of your Popes nor to that whereof some like ynough are farre from heauen and so from helping of you Take the lustie prelate of Englande Your S. Thomas Becket for example if ye will or some such like Saint of your making wee say as Augustine sayde in his dayes according to the perpetual doctrine of the sacred scriptures Crie vnto the Lorde not to any creature wee adde furder with him euen in this place Let no man be thy Lorde for the Lorde hee meaneth in steade of the true Lorde of heauen which vnder the Lorde woulde not bee thy fellowe seruaunt Whether it bee in heauen Let God in prayer be 〈◊〉 per se A as they say Or vppon earth to shut out your Lorde god the Pope and to bring him to bee but a fellowe seruaunt with other Let that God of heauen keep his prerogatiue or else bee you in exalting and setting vp that man of sinne Heretikes with the Donatistes Briefly to shut vp this place finde no fault with our seruice for that it hath the scriptures and put a difference between the Iewes Heretiks and the diuelishe peruerting and abusing the same and the right vse thereof with reuerence to our instruction and learning that through pacience and comfort we may haue hope which is an ende the Apostles setteth vs down the same to be written for Let it in all things be A lanterne to our feete and a light to our path as holy Dauid speaketh For which causes also the same is nowe published and made common vnto vs by her Maiestie and the State Marke the great benefite the Churche of God here hath reaped thereby and still doth and yee shall shewe your selfe besides your impietie to Gods worde very vncharitable and enuious to grudge vs the Scriptures or to reproche the same vnto vs. Nowe whether wee be Heretikes that sticke to the scriptures and to the sincere plaine and sure interpretation therof by themselues that one place may sufficiently expounde another that wee neede not run to men to haue the true sense but to let the holy 〈◊〉 euer expounde himselfe Or you that cannot nor will not bee content with this but call for this doctours exposition that doctours sense and so foorth rouing and running at randon if the worlde may not be iudge yet I pray you let your owne Cannon Lawe be iudge betweene vs Wee must take the sense and meaning of the Truth out of the scriptures themselues sayth Gratian out of Pope Clement And yet furder out of Hierome Whosoeuer otherwise vnderstandeth the scripture then the sense and meaning of the holy Ghost by whom it was written requireth Although he be not departed
and gone out of the Churche yet may hee bee called an Heretike and it is among the workes of the fleshe chosen those things that are the worse c. Wee knowe the Queenes coyne by the stampe by the Image by the inscription if it carry not that marke wee may lawfully refuse it euen so in the matters and truth of God c. But it is time to proceede with you After you haue thus declamed agaynst the Scriptures in our seruice you goe about to recken vp all the faultes ye can imagine to bee therein which in a bedroll yee recken vs vp to be in all about sixe whereof you make two heads one the thinges that be in it the other the thinges it wanteth It is happie yee can spie no moe faultes in particular but sixe Surely your Latine seruice were lesse daungerous and hurtfull if a man coulde in the whole finde but halfe so many good thinges amongst an infinite number of faultes nay the whole must needes bee not in part altered but quite vndone reiected and newe begunne againe or els wil there bee no Gods his seruice among you at all For our seruice it may haue some faultes wee denie not As it commeth to passe in things that goe through mens hands wee accompt not our bookes of seruice a Byble wee make it not equall with G O D his Booke But this wee hold what imperfections so euer there may be therein yet all layed together will be no sufficient Reason for you or anye man els to abstaine from Churche assemblies here which is the ende of this your Reason and that it driueth vnto You say our seruice is so naught as it may not be haunted we denie it Let vs see howe you proue it first in particular you say it is deuised by our selues different frō your Romish Catholike seruice through Christendome so I take your words and meaning As this is no warrant for the goodnesse of our seruice so is it not hereby prooued to bee naught so that yee vnderstande the same to bee so deuised by vs as it haue a farder warrant then mans head and fancy as being grounded and directed by Gods holy word The summe the grounde the substance Gods the 〈◊〉 forme and manner or order done by godly men There is in deede no Lyturgie or outwarde forme of 〈◊〉 Prayer for euery congregation set downe and particularly described in God his worde it had been a matter endelesse and needelesse to haue prescribed euery particular thing beongling to seruerall Church assemblies The substaunce and generall direction is to bee had in the worde of God and thence to be taken and thereby in euery particular circumstance to be ordred for diuers and seuerall congregations dispersed in many Countreys The rest is the Application is to bee perfourmed by the Churches for their necessitie and vse accordingly and so may be lawful for 〈◊〉 Church to doe the like without your checke and controlement Yee hearde before of the diuers and sundrye orders and manners of Masses in your Romaine Church as yee call it in Italie France Englande and so forth And your S. Gregorie as is recorded by Bede willed Augustine the Monke to take that frō other Churches here and there for this Englishe Churchs seruice that shoulde bee most conuentent Is it not knowne to all the worlde that your Mattens Euensong Complyn Dirige Masse and so foorth was of diuers Byshops of Romes patching c. And a long time a doyng before it was in that order you nowe vse it Did not your Trent meeting of late agree and appoint your Church seruice shoulde bee reformed did not your Pope according to that decree euen of late yeres reforme your breuiary and Missall ywis sir wee giue no such scope of reformation in our Gospelling Churches but teach and holde that all shoulde be doen by and according to the rule of God his booke and holy Scriptures as in matters appertayning to his Maiestie with all godly reuerence and humblenesse of minde You say it is altogether different from your seruice so woulde wee haue it to bee for that Poperie is too bad a paterne to reforme Christes Churche by It is euen as vnfit to bee an example for a reformed Church to followe as a fylthy hogstie is to frame and build a Princes Palace by and more vnfitte too The freer our Churches and assemblies be from Popishe corruptions the more happie be they a great deale You knowe in that olde and vnhappie controuersie about keeping of Easter in the 〈◊〉 Church home the fathers 〈◊〉 it vnmeete to followe the wicked Iewes who had crucifted Christ in obseruing their Easter on the foureteenth day of the first moneth as Constantine then emperour wryteth And y e gospel I am sure no better but a great deale woorse agreeth w t poperie our christiā religiō w t your romish seruice 〈◊〉 we easily admit that it is false that our seruice differeth in nothing from yours but that it is now in English which was then in latin so were our English seruice too too bad We would haue you and all the worlde thinke otherwise of the matter and we wishe you take no occasion thereat to thinke so wee are content to ease you of the paine to compare or prooue that point You say the hotter sort of protestants called Puritanes condemne the seruice of the protestants here and refraine from it as much as Catholikes doe Though there be that wish a more full reformation of the whole Churche and religion yet knowe I none of the godly learned that say with you it is vnlawfull to come at Church assemblish heere nor themselues refraine frō them There may bee some fewe simple vnlearned folke that of hatred to your superstitious and intollerable bloodie dealings afore time wherewith by their wills they would haue no communion or fellowship that may make some scruple therin for that they of zeale defie y e remnants steps traces ceremonies and all affinitie and likelihood with Poperie but howe agree they with you and you with them euen as as dogge and cat as they say so little vauntage haue you by them Your mindes and purposes beeing so contrarie the one to the other I minde not to bee a Patrone of euery bodies cause yee haue heard what I said before of that matter whither I here referre you till I heare your answere Such godly moderation woulde I haue kept in this matter as I trust can and will offende none that are godly Wisedome may not quenche zeale zeale may not destroy wisedome godly zeale and godly wisdome may stande together and goe together and so must doe and in Gods matters the worde of God must direct and order both Let mee I pray you aske of you whether they of your side that wished and sought for reformation of your Popishe seruice at Trent meeting condemned the same refrained from resorting to your Popishe Churche and seruice
as much as Protestants or no I weene you will answere me no. Then let that serue to answere you in this point heere You say the Scriptures are read among vs in false and shamelesse translations c. This is the next particular fault you find And this were to be hearkened vnto if it werē true as it is most impudent and false still you goe about to bereaue vs of the Scriptures which I would haue the Reader mark it is your olde practise Yee say this hath beene shewed in particular by many learned men ye say so onely and there you leaue them and that they haue saide And vntill you particular out of your learned men wee can say nothing but that they haue carried shame for their malicious lying and slaundering Yee threaten wee shalbe iolily quayled in this matter shortly and by whome I prap you Forsooth one of your coat telleth vs by Gregory Martin Alas poore man hee is but one and farre inferiour and too weake to deale with those and so many graue learned and godly fathers that haue to God his glory the Churches inestimable benefite and their owne singular commendation trauelled in translating the English Bible But let him goe and your bragge and threate till wee see more and heare furder from him It may bee wee shall receiue some profite and benefite by him to amend some little faultes that may haue escaped men aforetime You know howe harde a thing it is to doe such a work so absolutely as nothing may be missing or wanting therein Though he bee an enimie yet wee will not refuse to bee admonished by him wee will maintaine no faulte as you doe wee will stande in no errour Let it bee shewed and prooued a faulte and it will be mended with all thankefulnesse to the admonisher But I am afraide all will bee but poore spight and this maketh mee the rather to thinke so because your faultes heere set downe are no better you are pickling and carping at our English translation of the Bible You cannot tarry tyll your friendes booke come foorth I remember what was said in Queene Maries dayes when yee burned the English Bibles to excuse so horrible a fact withall ye said the Bible was naughtily translated and being demaunded a better by the people that were loth to forgoe that till they had a better yee promised they shoulde haue it better translated that promise since that time you haue forgotten at least you haue not vntill this day perfourmed the same possible you will better thinke thereof nowe and yet I hardly beleeue that But let vs heare howe clarkely and woorthily you handle your selfe to shewe manifest and wilful corruptions in our translations to drawe the Scripture to our owne purposes Throughout the scripture where Idols are forbidden they translate it Images say you Howe can this be better checked and prooued a plaine lye and a slaunder then in looking vpon our Bibles which in the old Testament and the newe also vse the worde of Idols and Idolatrie Wee neither refuse in time and place as occasion serueth to set downe y t name of Idols nor yet are we in fond loue with the name of Images Let the Christian Reader try herein this discoursers trustie truth by looking into the English Byble heere authorised and vsed in Churche assemblies vnder her Maiestie Yee say throughout the scripture where Idols are forbidden wee translate it Images If this be an impudent vntruth and no better but a lewde rayling against our godly translations of the Bible then who may trust you in other matters Howe shall wee thinke ye deale honestly and plainely in this cause And that it is no better will I vndertake briefly to shewe to giue the Reader herein also a taste of your hollowe double dealing though I be 〈◊〉 in following you it commeth so often First in our Scripture seruice then in some Chapters of the Bible in the old and newe Testament besides let the Reader looke in the 115. Psalme the 4. verse there shall hee finde that thus it is Monethly read in our Churches on the three twentieth day of the moneth at Euening prayer Their Idols are siluer and golde euen the work of mens hands c. Is not heere the worde Idols and Images In the Epistle read on Easter day taken out of the 3. Chapter to the Collossians Couetousnesse which is worshipping of Idols Heere is againe read Idols not Images in our trāslation Then are your wordes of vs vntrue a slaunder of our English translation of the Bible Aboue these 40. yeeres hath it beene thus translated in our English Bibles Lying it seemeth cost you no money But how is it in your Romish translation in both places Images thē condemne you that and yet me doe not so for that nor in that respect wee say all commeth to one in both places howe say you But let vs leaue your translation answere for our owne You say throughout the scripture where Idols are forbidden wee translate it Images This is your example to shewe our translations in Englishe to be naught let mee reprooue this your saying by contrary examples taken out of our English trāslations yet will I alleadge no other translation herein then y t which is aboue fortie yeres olde The other yee haue lesse to complaine of that haue beene since translated And yet I diminish nothing of the fidelitie and 〈◊〉 of that translation in King Henrie the eight his dayes which it wel deserueth among al y e godly If any bee well translated in Englishe Allowe English Churche that Bibles some bee faultlesse euen in these places for that you carpe other for at least before you burned all you should haue giuen vs a better of your owne translating which you will neuer doe vnlesse you woulde be accounted enimies rather to the Bible and matter it self then to the translation But I will proceede with the word and name of Idols which yee say wee throughout the scriptures translate Images take vpon you to shewe why wee doe so full Clarkelye Besides that I haue alredie sayd and that the diligent reader may obserue and gather of himselfe let among other these places be read in the Bybles translated in our noble King Henry his dayes her maiesties worthie Father to shew the 〈◊〉 cauilling and lying vanitie first in the Law and the Prophets that is the olde Testament then in the newe Genes 31. 35. Thus readeth the English Byble So searched he but found not those Idols Leuit 19. 4. Ye shal not turn vnto Idols 4. Kings 17. 12. They serued most vile Idols For the Prophets looke Esay 42. 17. and 44. thrise verse 〈◊〉 17. 19. A God and an Idol an abhominable Idol c and 45. 20. Haue they any vnderstanding that set vp the stockes of their Idols pray vnto a God that cannot helpe them c. Ezek 8. 〈◊〉 and the 6. foure times verse 4. 9. 13. twise
that cause that is for your abominable masse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 take it your popish priestes and all and away with the same out of Christes church to the Diuell if yee will 〈◊〉 it first came amōg vs. Your doctors c. haue 〈◊〉 are so answered as I neede not stand therein vpon this occasion If yee take that or any other matter in hande yee cannot goe vnanswered God be thanked for his giftes I list not now to repeate that is and hath beene so often well and truely tolde you heerein The like to this I tell you of your popish and apish ceremonies Wee liue not in a ceremoniall time nor in a ceremoniall Churche to heape vp the number of them nowe Wee are content you be the fathers and fosterers of your superstitious and vnnecessary ceremonies of your seuen sacraments yea seuen hundred if you wil for your priest in his pontificalibus and massing apparell is compounded I trow of nothing if we will beleeue you but of misteries and so of sacraments all your religion is ceremoniall and mysticall but all of your owne deuising Wee as those that are called to worship God in spirite and truth that is after a more spirituall and heauenly maner inwardly in a seruice more agreeable to Gods nature then that which is shadowed by Ceremonies content our selues heerein with Gods wisedome desire to keepe sobrietie and following the rule of the Scriptures referre all heerin to order comelinesse and edification especially But not such as is fleshly and agreeable to fleshly men minds but suche as is correspondent and agreeable with the crucifides kingdome and the preaching of the Crosse. Our sacraments we confesse are not ashamed in this time of y t Gospell vnder Christ to cōfesse thē being in number most fewe in obseruation most easie and yet in signification most heauenly When you can prooue that ye heere only say that wee either haue not most fewe that is two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lordes Supper according to our Sauiour Christes holy institution or are bounde to haue moe you shall heare what wee haue further to answere and say vnto you If y t which haue beene alreadie saide content you not as it may doe any reasonable men that wilfully 〈◊〉 not themselues Our Communion can bee no Sacrament you say yet you cannot bee ignorant that the word and matter are taken out of the Scripture much lesse then can your priuate Sacrifice and Action that is secrete coniuring sole receauing c. bee a Sacrament Houseling and being houseled once a yeere which is a halfe receiuing of I wote not what not of a Sacramente sure where you haue left no Element is suche a prophanation and contempt of Christes Sacrament as hardly can there bee a greater Let not vs then among 〈◊〉 the Communion of the body and blood of Christe is celebrated monethly or quarterly at least of euery one bee called contemners of Christes Sacramentes and charged with Sacriledge and you Papistes bee let goe scotfree who in steede of ofte receiuing content your selues with gasing crouching kneeling c. The like I tell you of prayer for the dead of our prayers c. in the mother tongue You are alwayes so like your selfe as yee can hardely deceiue any that once knowe you or will knowe you THE eight Reason is grounded vpon the losse of the benefite of the Romish Catholik religion If they goe to Churche heere which is made a great matter a waightie Before wee enter into that is particularly saide heereof let vs examine this generall grounde Heere is no more alleadged for the Papistes refraining from our assemblies then may bee alleadged by the Iewe the Turke or any Heathen by the Arrian Anabaptist or any Heretike who in communicating with an other religion leeseth the benefite of his owne And therefore as we may answere the one so may wee doe the other that is that it is no losse at al to forgoe that which is not beneficiall to any but hurtfull to all yea as some losse is a gaine so is it a great gaine not only to forgoe so Diuelishe and poysonfull a religion but with all to gaine the truth by the profession of the Gospell How beneficiall soeuer a man haue esteemed and founde a 〈◊〉 and lying aforetime to bee yet hath he loste nothing thereby that leaueth that custome and vseth himselfe to the telling of the truth yea hee hath gayned greatly by that change To haue mens eyes opened by the ministerie and preaching of the Gospell that they may turne from darkenesse to light and from the power of Satan vnto God that they may receiue forgiuenesse of sinnes and inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in Christ c is no losse but an incomparable gayne And this is your very case to the worlde warde more gaine and benefite many wayes by your voluntarie religion then by the sincere profession of the holy Gospell of Christe Iesus I graunt to the soule and Godwarde no profite but vnspeakeable hurt gotten by the profession of Poperie Where vpon I counsel all to leaue those filthy puddles of Poperie and to drinke of this pure fountayne of the water of life that is to leaue that god the Pope his lawe and traditions his idolatrous Religion and superstitions and to betake them selues to the true God of heauen to Iesus Christ his holy Scriptures and worde to be guided by contayned in the Byble and booke of God That which this discourser calleth a losse that let them count an inestimable benefite And what euer these men slander vs withall yet wee protest it before the eternall God that our meaning is not to drawe any from Poperie to any Religion deuised by men howe wise or mightie soeuer they bee but to the true Religion of Iesus Christ set vs downe in Gods booke Let them betake themselues to that let them professe the gospel of christ Iesus they shal go long enough vnblamed for their profession by vs let them answere their profession and liue according thereunto as is set downe in the same booke of GOD they shall please vs marueilously wel it is all wee require at their hands wee wil wishe peace vnto them and to the Israel of God Though then wee wishe men to depart frō that whoorishe Babylon of Rome though wee 〈◊〉 them saue them selues from this frowarde generation c. Yet wishe wee them well to marke whether we cal them we leaue them not at randon we call them not to followe our Religion framed at our pleasure much lesse call wee them to Atheisme but we call them from that vsurper and woolfe to Christ Jesus the Prince of Pastours our onely high Priest and the Byshop of our soules Reade the 1. Peter 2. if but onely the last verse of the Chapter and see whither and to whome S. Peter himselfe called men euen the Church Let his successour as he falsely pretendeth doe the like at least if he call
It wil make you sweate and your shoulders ake too before you will be able to remoue these two blockes If you possible stumble at them and breake your shinnes thanke your selfe of your hurt who are more busie with them then you neede be Obedience yea and protestation of obedience to her Maiestie and her wholesome lawes in this behalfe aggrawateth the sinne rather then diminisheth it you say although I thinke there bee none that hath so little regarde to his Soules health as to goe to Church ouelie for obedience sake and not of a religious minde also He that thinketh it is naught to speake against the Pope at Paules Crosse which is your example though you call it rayling thinketh therein amisse and therefore being commanded if occasion serue therto shall do well to obey and doe it redressing his former foolish thinking which too absurdly still you make conscience when it is indeede but a fancie and a dreame tel vs it is Pilats case as much as lōg as you wil we wil 〈◊〉 bid you prooue it Your pope is not Christ fir nor the clearing or condemning of him the like doing to Pilats with Christ there is great oddes in the case Of pretended conscience c. I think I haue said enough and of the foolish and wicked band of a naughtie and erroneous conscience whereof you talke Prooue stil I bid you or hold your peace that haunting our churches is naught though you suppose it that is imagin and dreame so We that by experience finde and knowe the contrary can not graunt it you Obedience to her maiestie and protestation thereof in haunting holie church assemblies here authorised by law maketh the sinne greater Disobedience to her maiestie her godly lawes herein disloyalty rebelliō treason c. not onely diminish the subiectes faulte towardes their prince but is a vertue with you it is a confession of your popish catholike faith Obediēce to your pope to a prelate in a naughtie thing to your church euē against cōscience excuseth I haue giuē exāples a tast before this is your religiō cōscience After this fighting as you do stil w t your own shadow you make an obiection of your owne and answere it at pleasure And because you like not to single the matter it is your own word you huddle you shuffle double iūbling vp thinges full euell fauouredly together For reckoning how manie thinges are conteined in going to Church you bring us forth some that we acknowledge but diuers and very manie of your owne deuising which we iustlie reiect and 〈◊〉 as our answere before doth sufficiently declare Single things therfore I pray you seuer distinguish betweene good and bad one and the other better then you here doe or else keepe your annexes as you call them to sporte your selfe withall defend your obstinacie by word by writinges by imprisonment or as you will make al the world know your sturres and gaze vpon you to please your selues therein as much as lyketh you yet shall it be obstinacie stil say and doe what you can the more the matter commeth into trial the lesse credit and vauntage hath it of your side The conscience of the Catholike that thinketh he doth naught in haunting our Church assemblies is diuelish and dangerous as we haue seene the explanation of the church as you call it that is of the popish route and antichristian stuagogue is like to y t imagined conscience you labour hard to bring the church assemblies here into discredit You tel vs of the holding vp of a finger onely How vnlawfull it were in this case you adde such is your modestie a similitude of lifting vp but of a straw to the diuell in token of obedience which you say is as much as if one did word by word deny his creed But I weene not there is a differēce in the greatnes betweene sinne and sinne all sinnes are not equall Afterward of courtesie and grace you make vs foure qualificatiōs as you term thē which may make going to church lawful by the iudgement of your diuines meere particular knowne temporall busines How gingerly and nicely you walke in the matter These conditions added to going to church make it al one you say as not to go to church at al. You so prophane it as it is no better in your opinion then 〈◊〉 of the market or some like worldly busines which exercise is good enough for those of your religiō if you leaue but such a going to church as is al one with not going at al then may I shortly answer you as good neuer a whit as neuer the better In that which followeth in this third conclusion of Naaman the Sirian you so handle the matter as I know not whether you make his fact sinne or no if he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what needed he to seeke pardon at God his hande purchasing the same frō the prophet to be obtained by his praier If he sinned what tolleration could the prophet giue him therin For our case there is no difficultie therefore I omit it without further discussion your expositiō of y e whole In the fourth and last conclusion that you gather supposing lalfhood still you shewe your self very precise against our God his seruice for you say a man may not yeeld in any one little point therein which you would further ground vpon an other conclusion also If all be not lawfull then no part of it is lawful which groūd of yours how you can proue better then y t rest if you be put therto I wote not but I think hardly enough Neuerthelesse I now put you not vnto that labour you haue enough to doe alreadie and more then will euer be well done or cleared we must admit supposition for any thing you haue yet sayd I see not why our exercises in 〈◊〉 may not be thought lawful cōmēdable godly also For the general doctrine you here deliuer vs that God accepteth no particion no mayme in our seruice but eyther al or none must be his that we must walke with an vpright heart before him in roundnes of conscience without limitation dissimulatiō or haulting sticking precisely 〈◊〉 his holy law and commandements it is most true and as a heauenlye trueth so wee receiue it But the whole is verye badlye applied to your popish diuels seruice The textes of scripture that you cite talke of the sinceritie of God his seruice of his law and of his commandements c. Holde you there keepe to his holy word and we shall agree but you doe not you will not you may not you can not your false suppositiō deceiueth you there is a way saith the wife man that seemeth right to a man but the yssues therof are the wayes of death O y t the word of y t Lord in religion in life in gods matters in ours euery where euery way might be a lātern to our feet to be cōtinually caried