argument is nothing worth nunquà m licet saith Zuinglius nequè in diuinis nequé in Zainglius profanis à facto ad ius argumentari it is neuer lawful neither in diuine nor in prophane matters to argue * à facto ad ius Neyther is the text as you report it for the words do not Of a deede or example to make a lawe signify that Paule would not haue takē him with him vnlesse they had al giuen such testimonie of him neither can there be any such sense truly gathered out of that place And it is manifest that the Apostles receiued Paule into their company at the testimonie and commendation of Barnabas only Act. 9. Chapter 1. the. 11. Diuision Ansvvere of the Admonition Pag. 38. Sect. 1. You say that there be admitted into the ministerie of the basest sort of the people I know not what you mean by the basest sort this I am sure of that the ministerie is not now bound to any one tribe as it was to the tribe of Leui in Ieroboams time now none is secluded from that function of any degree state or calling so that those qualities be founde in him whiche in that office are to be required T. C. Page 26. Lin 14. You know they meant by the basest of the people such as gaue but one leape out of the shop into the Church as sodainly are changed out of a seruing mans coate into a ministers cloake making for the most part the ministerie their last refuge c. And seeing that besides the words be playne the dayly experience teacheth it you neede not make it so straunge as though you knew not what they meant Io. Whitgifte I heare you say so but why did they then quote the. 1. Reg. 1 〈◊〉 3 that manifestly proueth the same sense that I haue gathered of their words and that text onely occasioned me so to do Chap. 1. the. 12. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 38. Sect. 2. 3. 4. I maruell to what purpose the twelfth chapiter of the first booke of kings is here quoted for Ieroboam is there reproued bycause hee tooke the priesthoode from the tribe of Leui to the which only it dyd apperteyne The Papists neuer tooke so great occasion of slaundring the Gospell Offences gyuen to the Pa pists by their contentions at the ignorance of the ministers for they haue of themselues those that be as ignorant and more as they do at your schismes and fond opinions wherwith you disquiet the peace of the Churche and lay stumbling blocks before the weake for the which God will surely call you to accoumpt The second chapter to the Romaynes is here quoted only to painte the margent Io. Whitgifte All this is passed ouer in silence VVhether Idolatrous sacrificers and Massemongers may aftervvard be ministers of the Gospell Chapter second the first Diuision Admonition The seconde In those days o 〈◊〉 5. 4. 〈◊〉 ▪ 44. 10. 12. 13. Ierem. 23. no Idolatrous sacrificers of Heathenish priests wer appointed to be Preachers of the Gospell but we allow and like well of Popish massemongers me for all seasons King Henries priestes king Edwards Priests Queene Maries Priests who of a truth if Gods word were precisely followed should from the same be vtterly remoued Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 38. Sect. vlt. The place in the fifth chapter of the Hebrues quoted in the margent speaketh nothing of Idolatrous sacrificers or heathenishe Priestes but onely by the example of Aaron proueth that no man ought to intrude himselfe into the office of a Bishop or Priest except he be called of God Lord how dare these men thus wring the scriptures In the 23. of the Prophet Ieremy there is much spokē against false prophets but not one word for any thing that I see to proue that idolatrous sacrificers maye not be admitted to preache the Gospell Io. Whitgifte To this is nothing answered Chap. 2. the second Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 39. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. Pag. 40. Sect. 1. The places of the 44. of Ezechiell haue some shew in them for there the Lord commaundeth the Leuites which had committed Idolatrie to be put from their dignitie and not to be receiued into the priestes office but to serue in inferioure ministeries I thinke you will not make this a generall rule to debarre suche from preaching of the Gospell as haue through infirmitie fallen be now with hartie repentance retourned We haue many examples to the contrary Peter forswore his master Christ which was as euill Peters forswearing as sacrificing to Idolls and yet he was not put from his Apostleship We haue diuers examples in the Primitiue Church of suche as by feare being compelled to sacrifice to strange gods after repented and kepte still the office of preaching the Gospell and did moste constantly die in the same T. C. Page 26. Sect. 1. What ought to be generall if this ought not to put the minister that hath bin an Idolater from his ministerie is it not a commaundemente of God and giuen not of one Leuite or two but of all 2. Cha. 23. those that went backe not at one time but at others also when the like occasion was giuen as appeareth in the booke of the kings where all the priests of the Lord that had sacrificed in the high places were not suffered to come to the altar in Ierusalem Doth not S. Paule make smaller 1. Tim. 3. causes of deposing from the ministerie than Idolatrie For after he hath described what maner of men the ministers should be and Deacons he addeth And being tried (a) S Paule his words and meaning falsisyed let them execute theyr functions as long as they remayne blamelesse I thinke if so be a man had bin knowne to be an adulterer although he repented him yet none that is well aduised would take him into the ministerie for if S. Paule reiect him that had ij wiues at once which was a thing that the Iewes and Gentiles thought lawfull and that was common amongst them and had preuayled throughout all the world how much lesse would he suffer any to be admitted to the ministerie which should be an adulterer and haue another mans wife which is condemned of all that professe the name of Christ and which is not so general a mischiefe as that was and suffer him to abide in the ministerie which should committe such wickednesse during his function and likewise of a murtherer now the sinne of Idolatrie is greater and more detestable than any of them in as much as perteyning to the first table it immediatly stayneth Gods honoure and breaketh duetie to him vnto whome we more owe it without all comparison than to any mortall man And if S. Paule in the choise of the widowe to attend vpon the sicke of the Churche which was the lowest office in the Churche requireth not only such a one as is at the time of the choise honest and holy
writing than you vse throughout your whole booke and truly if you had not these two letters T. C. for your name yet coulde I haue easily coniectured by the haughtinesse of the stile and contemptuous speaches who had bene the authour of the booke so well am I acquainted with your modestie and suche experience haue I of your myldnesse But it is well for nowe such as before haue thought that you had bene sine felle without gall and that butter would not melt in your mouth may perceyue that all is not vntrue that hath ben reported of you But what woulde they farther thinke if they shoulde compare you béeing that T. C. that I take you to be your othe which you once tooke when you were admitted fellowe into T. C. Item me buic Collegio fidelem beneuolum The othe which the fellowes of Tri. Col. in Cambridge do take at their 〈◊〉 futurum ei omnibus socijs ac discipulis atque etiam magistro eiusdem non solum dum in eo vixero sed etiam postea pro virili cum opus sit beneuolentiam opem praestiturū c. with this your good will vttered throughout your whole booke verily you might haue answered as well as you haue doon and had better regard both to your othe and to your brethren But to let that passe I doubte whether you meane good faith or no when you would make vs beléeue that you take vs for brethren for surely that doth not appeare either by the firste or Admonition or by this your booke if a man consider the fiercenesse and firie heat almost in euery lyne of them vttered against vs. In the second Admonition fol. 35. speaking of the Bishops which be nowe their confederates as you cal them these words in most spiteful maner be vttered And take them for better 2. Admo ▪ fo 35 who shall they are no other but a remnant of Antichristes broode and God amend and forgiue them for else they bid battell to Christ and his Church and it must bid defiance to them till they yeeld And I protest before the eternall God I take them so and thereafter will vse my selfe in my vocation and many moe too no doubt which be carefull of God his glory and the Churches liberty will vse them selues against them as the professed enimies of the Church of Christ if they proceede in this course and thus persecute as they do And therefore these be but wordes of dalyance when you saye that you cannot tell howe it commeth to passe that the name of a brother s aketh that courage and abateth that carefulnesse whiche should be bestowed in the defence of the truth In déede it ought to haue abated your outrageous and disdayneful speaches if olde rancour and desire of reuengement had not gotten in you the vpper hande For whether you deale with me lyke a brother or like an vtter enimie lette the indifferent Reader iudge What truth you haue on your side and how it is oppugned and slandered by such as you meane shall I trust appeare when your Replie is diligently compared with my Answere If you had ment the truth in good earnest you woulde haue delt more paynly in replying than you haue doone you would haue set downe my booke as I haue done the Admonition that the Reader mighte haue compared bothe together and not haue mangled it depraued it falsified it and vntruly collected of it as you haue done and almost nothing else as God willing shall appeare God graunt that it be not layde to your charge that you haue hindred Truth slaundered it and giuen the common aduersaries occasion to speake euill of it T. C. And as vnto other partes of the Gospell so soone as the Lorde openeth a doore for them to enter in there is for the most parte great resistance So in this part concerning the gouernment and discipline of the Church which is the order which God hath left as well to make the doctrine most effectual and to giue as it were a sharper edge vnto the preaching of the word as also to be a wall to keepe it and make it continue amongst vs I see there bee sundrie lettes which doe as it were with weapons stande vp to stoppe the passage and to hinder that it shoulde not be settled amongste vs. Io. Whitgifte It is true that there is greate resistance so soone as the Lorde openeth any dore to his Gospell and that by sundrie meanes and diuers kindes of men as the stories of the Churche from tyme to tyme declare and dayly experience teacheth it is also true that many vnder this pretence of right gonernment and restoring of discipline haue and doe disturbe the Churches wherin the Gospel is sincerely preached and the Sacraments rightly ministred for further proufe wherof and auoyding of tediousnesse I referre you to maister Bullinger Lib. 6. cap. 10. aduersus Anabaptist To Maister Caluine aduersus Anabaptist To Maister Gualter in his Epistle dedicatorie before his The pretence of restoring the right gouernment but a cloake for farther mischiefe commentarie vpon the first to the Corinthes Therfore this pretence of restoring the right gouernment of the Churche with so great disquietnesse of the same is but a couer to hyde the further purposes of Satan the enimie of the peace and quietnesse of the Churche T. C. With the whiche albeeit I wrestle hand to hande in this booke yet forasmuche as we haue all drunke so deepe of the cup of vntruth that we do not only stumble at blockes which other men laye in our way but oftentimes we gather lettes vnto our selues in framing a preiudice against the truth I thought good to note shortly what those stumbling blockes are and although I cannot remoue them yet to giue warning of them and to lende my hande to the weaker and simpler sorte to helpe to ouerstride them Io. Whitgifte What these stumbling blockes are and howe you will helpe the weaker and simpler sorte to ouerstride them we shall sée in the discourse that foloweth The Epist. of T. C. Sect. 2. The offences which are taken herein be either in respecte of the cause or in respect of those whiche seeke to defende and promote the cause The cause is charged fyrste with newnesse and strangenesse then as author of confusion and of disorder and laste of all as enimie to Princes magistrates and common wealthes For the fyrst besydes that it is no sufficient chalenge to say it is new and strange there is no cause why it should be counted newe which is confessed of those whiche myslyke it to haue bin for the most part vsed in the Apostles tymes nor why it should be esteemed strange which is vsed now farre and neere of this that syde the sea and of ne straungers but of those which are of the houshold of fayth And it shal more largely appeare in this boke that this is no innouation but a renouation and the doctrine
as you are not able to proue that it is yet muste it receiue the same answer with the former argumente being of the same nature vnlesse you will say that we must not come néere vnto our riendes graue or place where he is buried we must not weare any of his apparell come in or neare the place where he dyed beholde any thing that may put vs in mynde of hym with an infinite suche like thinges bycause all these moue affections in a kynde harte and prouoke it to wéeping But i is the affection of the mynde that is to be moderated and brideled and not the lawfull vse of decent and ciuill orders to be condemnad ▪ For if we admit such causes and excuses I sée not how any orders eyther ecclesiasticall or cy ill especially in indifferent things can be mainteined If any man weare such apparell There is both a lawfull and an vnl w full vse of mour ing apparell of purpose to prouoke sorrow he is not to be excused if for order and ciuilitie he is to be commended And surely I sée not why the wearing of mourning apparell should not be profitable to put a man in minde of his owne mortalitie seeing it carieth a remembrance of death with it and I thinke it rather woorketh this effecte in the wearer than the other that you speake of The antiquitie of this apparell appeareth in this that by your owne confession it was in Cyprians time as it appeareth in that 4. ser. demortalitate where he dothe not so much speake against the mourning apparell as he dothe againste mourning immoderatly and surely if the thing had bin so greatly to be misliked it shoulde not still haue had continuance in the Church as it had for Augustine likewise speaketh of it serm 2. de consolat mort to the same effect that Cyprian doth But there is no suche immoderate mourning for the dead in these dayes the contrary rather appeareth Chap. 6. the. 5. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 200. Sect. 1. 2. But wherein haue funerall sermons offended you or with what Funerall sermons face of brasse dare you liken them to trentalls what similitude is there betwixt a godly sermon and the wicked Masse In what one Sermons most nece sary at 〈◊〉 poynt are they like or how dare you condemne such sermons being then most necessary and most profitable what is there a more fitte time to entreate of the mortalitie of man and shortnesse of his days of the vanitie of this worlde of the vncertaintie of iches of the resurrection of the iudgemente to come of eternall life and of euerlasting deathe and of infinite other most necessary poyntes than that wherin we haue a present example before our eyes when is ther a more meete time to beate downe trentalls sacrificing for the dead prayers for the dead Purga orie and suche like than that wherein they were accustomed to be most vsed Su ely there is as much difference Sermons wickedly compared to trentalls betwixt our funerall sermons and the papisticall masses and trentalls as there is betwixt cold and hote blacke and white light and darknesse truth and lies Heauen and Hell But belike there is some other priuate cause that maketh you to reiecte funerall sermons You saye that in the best refourmed churches they are remoued I Funerall sermons allowed of M. Caluine thinke you saye not truly and I am sure that M. Caluine dothe very well like and allow of them as appeareth in the forme of common prayers vsed of the English Church in Geneua by him allowed But if it be so I tell you plainly for my parte I like not that reformation excepte there be weightier reasons than eyther you vse or I can perceiue I am sure that in auncient churches of long time they haue bin vsed and the same you may see in the moste aunciente and best learned fathers T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 1. Now touching the funerall sermons M. Doctor taketh on and triumpheth maruellously as though he had already gotten y e victory but he that girdeth his harnesse should not boast as he that putteth it of Ther is more matter than peraduenture M. Doctor is aware of and that which is set downe he answereth not as that it nourisheth an opinion that y e dead are the better for it which doth appeare in that ther are none more desirous of funeral sermōs than y e Papists which although they cannot abide the doctrine whiche is preached yet they will haue suche sermons and those which will very seldome or not at all be at other sermons will not commonly misse one of these Furthermore for so much as the minister is driuē oftentimes by this meanes to preach vpō a suddeyne the worde of God thereby is negligently handled especially of those whose giftes are not so gre t as that they can prouide in so sma l time and by this negligent handling of the worde of God it is brought into contempte Io. Whitgifte Surely M. Doctor may well triumphe that so good a cause hath no stronger aduersaries Funerall sermons nourish not an opinion that the dead are the better for them Your argumentes are too too slender and in déede very friuolous The first is this that they nourishe an opinion that the dead are better for them of the which argumente bicause you are ashamed your selfe you father it vpon the Admonition wherin there is not one worde spoken of any such reason But why doth a funerall sermon nourish that opiniō forsooth bicause the Papistes be most desirous of them First it is very strange to say that sermons nourishe an opinion y t the dead are the better for them when it is well knowen that both he that preacheth thinketh otherwise the ende of preaching is to roote out of mens heartes such persuasions which kinde of sermōs be most mete at that time to be vsed when such especial occasiōs be offered Secōdly it is as strange to thinke that Papistes should for any such cause desire them who are persuaded the doctrine that is taught to be flat heresie and the preacher to be none of the church and surely it is a strange fansie that can imagine a Papiste to thinke that sermon to helpe the dead which condemneth prayer for the dead Purgatorie Masses Diriges Merites and such like Popish trashe wherein the Papistes place all their hope of helpe for the dead Wherfore if Papistes be so desirous of these sermons which I can not beleue and in many of them it is indéede vntrue it is rather to auoyde the suspition of Papistrie than to procure any helpe to the dead The seconde argument you will haue this The minister is driuen by this meanes to T. C. forgetteth him selfe preache of a suddeyne and thereby the worde of God is negligently handled c. and is this so good a reason Do you remember what you answered before for the defense of preaching twyse in a