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truth_n aaron_n find_v mouth_n 12 3 6.2693 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A12592 A godly treatise containing and deciding certaine questions, mooued of late in London and other places, touching the ministerie, sacraments, and Church Whereunto one proposition more is added. After the ende of this booke you shall finde a defence of such points as M. Penry hath dealt against: and a confutation of many grosse errours broched in M. Penries last treatise. Written by Robert Some Doctor of Diuinitie. Some, Robert, 1542-1609.; Penry, John, 1559-1593. Defence of that which hath bin written in the questions of the ignorant ministerie, and the communicating with them. 1588 (1588) STC 22909; ESTC S117654 118,250 200

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which_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o unpreach_a minister_n i._o penry_n paul_n communicate_v since_o his_o conversion_n with_o those_o priest_n that_o be_v as_o unlearned_a as_o ever_o any_o which_o he_o will_v not_o have_v do_v if_o inability_n to_o teach_v have_v make_v they_o no_o priest_n r._n some_o then_o in_o m._n penryes_n judgement_n the_o holy_a apostle_n be_v not_o pollute_v by_o communicate_v with_o unpreach_v minister_n can_v any_o man_n if_o he_o have_v but_o half_a a_o eye_n suspect_v that_o m._n penry_n dissent_v from_o i_o in_o judgement_n what_o then_o may_v i_o think_v against_o who_o he_o have_v write_v well_o i_o must_v be_v content_a with_o the_o measure_n he_o offer_v i_o my_o comfort_n be_v that_o he_o shall_v gain_v and_o i_o lose_v nothing_o by_o it_o yea_o i_o assure_v myself_o by_o god_n grace_n that_o god_n church_n shall_v gain_v by_o this_o difference_n he_o pretend_v great_a desire_n of_o a_o learned_a ministry_n but_o his_o 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reason_n because_o it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v he_o a_o lawful_a though_o not_o a_o good_a priest_n for_o he_o to_o be_v of_o the_o line_n of_o aaron_n r._n some_o you_o have_v examine_v and_o censure_v my_o reason_n at_o your_o pleasure_n i_o hope_v i_o may_v with_o your_o good_a leave_n look_v a_o little_a upon_o you_o my_o answer_n be_v first_o if_o your_o first_o reason_n be_v good_a than_o they_o which_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n at_o their_o hand_n be_v not_o pollute_v if_o they_o be_v not_o pollute_v what_o say_v you_o to_o these_o argument_n viz._n the_o sacrament_n may_v not_o be_v receive_v at_o his_o hand_n which_o want_v outward_a call_n therefore_o not_o at_o his_o hand_n which_o be_v destitute_a of_o the_o inward_a grace_n i._o pen._n again_o we_o have_v no_o warrant_n to_o receive_v a_o extraordinary_a sacrament_n but_o that_o which_o be_v administer_v by_o ignorant_a minister_n be_v a_o extraordinary_a sacrament_n if_o it_o be_v any_o therefore_o we_o have_v 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that_o place_n of_o the_o act_n the_o meaning_n of_o s._n luke_n be_v this_o the_o apostle_n paul_n be_v account_v by_o the_o jew_n a_o enemy_n of_o moses_n law_n to_o clear_v himself_o of_o this_o he_o enter_v into_o salomon_n temple_n by_o the_o advice_n of_o the_o apostle_n james_n and_o of_o the_o brethren_n in_o jerusalem_n and_o be_v purify_v acts._n 21.26_o your_o last_o reason_n serve_v very_o fit_o for_o my_o purpose_n therefore_o i_o will_v use_v it_o as_o a_o sword_n to_o cut_v in_o piece_n some_o of_o your_o fancy_n paul_n you_o say_v communicate_v after_o his_o conversion_n with_o those_o priest_n that_o be_v as_o unlearned_a as_o ever_o any_o &_o be_v not_o pollute_v of_o this_o i_o conclude_v therefore_o they_o which_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o unpreach_v minister_n be_v not_o pollute_v my_o reason_n be_v the_o ignorant_a levite_n and_o ignorant_a minister_n agree_v in_o eodem_fw-la tertio_fw-la that_o be_v in_o ignorance_n but_o m._n penry_n reply_v that_o a_o argument_n from_o the_o leviticall_a priesthood_n be_v not_o forcible_a for_o unpreach_v minister_n to_o prove_v this_o he_o use_v two_o reason_n the_o first_o be_v our_o reader_n ministry_n be_v not_o a_o leviticall_a ministry_n therefore_o a_o argument_n from_o the_o levitical_a priesthood_n be_v not_o forcible_a for_o unpreach_v minister_n my_o answer_n be_v i_o grant_v that_o no_o ministry_n in_o these_o day_n be_v a_o leviticall_a ministry_n for_o the_o date_n of_o that_o ministry_n be_v out_o long_o ago_o but_o i_o deny_v your_o argument_n my_o reason_n be_v a_o argument_n be_v and_o may_v be_v forcible_o draw_v from_o one_o thing_n to_o another_o which_o be_v unmatchable_a all_o logician_n confess_v that_o similitude_n be_v of_o thing_n which_o differ_v every_o mean_a sophister_n in_o the_o university_n know_v it_o it_o
they_o receive_v true_a baptism_n the_o argument_n follow_v for_o baptism_n be_v a_o engraff_n into_o the_o true_a christ_n rom._n chap._n 6.3_o the_o antecedent_n be_v manifest_a in_o m._n penries_n judgement_n for_o he_o will_v not_o have_v they_o to_o offer_v themselves_o again_o to_o baptism_n therefore_o he_o be_v either_o a_o catabaptist_n or_o else_o there_o be_v and_o be_v even_o in_o his_o judgement_n true_a baptism_n in_o the_o popish_a church_n 2_o they_o which_o be_v circumcise_v in_o the_o time_n of_o jeroboam_fw-la and_o caiphas_n be_v account_v true_a circumcise_a person_n although_o at_o that_o time_n the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n be_v almost_o altogether_o pervert_v and_o corrupt_v therefore_o such_o as_o be_v and_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o popish_a church_n etc._n etc._n this_o argument_n be_v use_v of_o the_o great_a learned_a man_n of_o the_o religion_n and_o be_v allow_v of_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n 3_o caluine_n and_o beza_n be_v resolute_a for_o this_o calu._n jon_n chap_n 1._o v._n 16._o ezech_v 16._o v._n 20._o epist_n 103._o and_o 104._o beza_n confess_v chap._n 4._o art_n 49._o and_o chap_n 7._o art_n 11._o epist_n 10._o and_o 81._o viretus_fw-la have_v these_o word_n baptismum_fw-la qui_fw-la à_fw-la sacerdotibus_fw-la papisticis_fw-la collatus_fw-la est_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v we_o do_v allow_v popish_a baptism_n albeit_o we_o condemn_v the_o vain_a and_o superstitious_a ceremony_n which_o be_v use_v in_o it_o tract_n de_fw-fr commun_fw-fr fid_fw-we cum_fw-la papist_n cer_n pag._n 64._o of_o this_o judgement_n be_v all_o learned_a man_n and_o all_o reform_a church_n none_o dissent_n but_o catabaptist_n anabaptist_n m._n penry_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o fantastical_a order_n chap._n 21_o there_o have_v be_v and_o may_v be_v true_a baptism_n out_o of_o the_o church_n the_o donatist_n thought_n otherwise_o in_o augustine_n time_n but_o they_o be_v notable_o confute_v by_o augustine_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr baptis_fw-la contra_fw-la don._n 2_o true_a circumcision_n be_v among_o the_o edomite_n 3_o they_o which_o be_v baptize_v out_o of_o the_o church_n by_o heretic_n neither_o be_v nor_o may_v be_v rebaptise_v therefore_o they_o receive_v true_a baptism_n the_o antecedent_n be_v manifest_a for_o it_o be_v a_o rule_n in_o divinity_n and_o receive_v of_o all_o learned_a man_n baptizati_fw-la ab_fw-la haereticis_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la rebaptizandi_fw-la that_o be_v they_o which_o be_v baptize_v of_o heretic_n be_v not_o to_o be_v rebaptise_v the_o reason_n be_v where_o the_o essential_a form_n of_o baptism_n be_v observe_v non_fw-la haereticus_fw-la sed_fw-la haeretici_fw-la manu_fw-la christus_fw-la baptizat_fw-la that_o be_v not_o the_o heretic_n but_o christ_n do_v baptize_v by_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o heretic_n aug._n passim_fw-la de_fw-mi bapt_v count_v don._n it_o be_v not_o the_o baptism_n of_o heretic_n or_o schismatics_n but_o of_o god_n &_o the_o church_n wheresoever_o it_o be_v find_v and_o whithersoever_o translate_v aug._n the_o bapt_a contra_fw-la don._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 14._o the_o heresy_n be_v they_o the_o error_n be_v they_o etc._n etc._n but_o baptism_n which_o be_v christ_n must_v not_o be_v account_v they_o aug._n de_fw-fr baptis_fw-la contra_fw-la don._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 11._o cyprian_n be_v of_o a_o other_o judgement_n in_o the_o church_n of_o carthage_n but_o he_o be_v condemn_v for_o that_o error_n by_o the_o best_a church_n in_o that_o age_n 4._o the_o ark_n of_o the_o testament_n which_o be_v take_v of_o the_o philistines_n lose_v not_o the_o virtue_n of_o sanctification_n 1._o sam._n 4._o dagon_n can_v teach_v we_o that_o 5_o si_fw-la foris_fw-la nemo_fw-la potest_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o no_o man_n can_v have_v any_o thing_n which_o be_v christ_n out_o of_o the_o church_n neither_o can_v any_o man_n have_v any_o thing_n which_o be_v the_o devil_n within_o the_o church_n aug._n the_o bapt_a contr_n don._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o 6_o non_fw-la itaque_fw-la ideo_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la sacramenta_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o ecclesiae_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v they_o be_v not_o therefore_o not_o the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o church_n because_o heretic_n and_o wicked_a man_n do_v unlawful_o use_v they_o they_o that_o be_v the_o heretic_n etc._n etc._n be_v to_o be_v amend_v or_o punish_v but_o the_o sacrament_n be_v to_o be_v acknowledge_v and_o reverent_o esteem_v of_o etc._n etc._n question_n how_o do_v heretic_n possess_v baptism_n answer_n baptismum_fw-la legitimum_fw-la habent_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la legitimè_fw-la habent_fw-la that_o be_v heretic_n have_v lawful_a baptism_n but_o they_o have_v it_o not_o lawful_o aug._n de_fw-fr bapt._n cont_n don._n lib._n 5._o cap._n 7._o neque_fw-la licitè_fw-fr foris_fw-la habetur_fw-la &_o tamen_fw-la habetur_fw-la sic_fw-la illicitè_fw-fr for_o be_v datur_fw-la sed_fw-la tamen_fw-la datur_fw-la that_o be_v baptism_n be_v not_o have_v lawful_o out_o of_o the_o church_n notwithstanding_o it_o be_v have_v in_o like_a sort_n it_o be_v give_v out_o of_o the_o church_n unlawful_o notwithstanding_o it_o be_v give_v aug._n de_fw-fr bap._n contra_fw-la don._n lib._n 6._o ca._n 15._o if_o any_o shall_v ask_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o offer_v our_o infant_n to_o baptism_n out_o of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n because_o all_o learned_a man_n except_o the_o donatist_n etc._n etc._n in_o augustine_n time_n and_o m._n penry_n and_o his_o worthy_a disciple_n in_o our_o time_n have_v and_o do_v affirm_v that_o true_a baptism_n have_v be_v and_o may_v be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n my_o answer_n be_v negative_a as_o augustine_n be_v i_o refer_v the_o learned_a reader_n to_o his_o writing_n contra_fw-la cresc_n gram_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 23._o and_o de_fw-mi bapt._n contra_fw-la don._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 4._o chap._n 22._o i._o penry_n that_o no_o popish_a priest_n be_v a_o minister_n every_o minister_n must_v be_v at_o the_o least_o by_o profession_n a_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n no_o popish_a priest_n be_v by_o profession_n a_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n therefore_o no_o popish_a priest_n be_v a_o minister_n every_o minister_n have_v a_o office_n within_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n no_o popish_a priest_n have_v a_o office_n within_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o no_o popish_a priest_n be_v a_o minister_n the_o proposition_n or_o first_o part_n of_o both_o these_o reason_n be_v set_v down_o evident_o and_o plain_o by_o the_o wisdom_n of_o god_n in_o these_o word_n for_o as_o we_o have_v many_o member_n in_o one_o body_n and_o all_o member_n have_v not_o one_o office_n so_o we_o be_v many_o be_v one_o body_n in_o christ_n and_o every_o one_o another_o member_n see_v then_o that_o we_o have_v gift_n that_o be_v diverse_a etc._n etc._n the_o place_n show_v clear_o that_o whosoever_o be_v not_o a_o member_n be_v not_o of_o the_o body_n if_o not_o of_o the_o body_n than_o no_o minister_n again_o whosoever_o be_v no_o member_n he_o have_v no_o office_n in_o the_o body_n if_o no_o office_n no_o minister_n he_o that_o shall_v object_v that_o in_o this_o place_n be_v mean_v a_o member_n of_o the_o body_n by_o election_n in_o the_o secret_a counsel_n of_o god_n and_o not_o in_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o the_o church_n by_o profession_n will_v not_o deserve_v the_o answer_n because_o it_o be_v vocation_n and_o not_o election_n that_o make_v such_o a_o member_n in_o the_o church_n as_o may_v have_v a_o office_n therein_o of_o which_o sort_n the_o apostle_n speak_v in_o this_o place_n by_o vocation_n i_o mean_v that_o whereof_o the_o holy_a ghost_n speak_v where_o it_o be_v say_v many_o be_v call_v but_o few_o be_v choose_v neither_o can_v any_o man_n deny_v he_o to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n which_o by_o outward_a profession_n submit_v himself_o unto_o true_a religion_n and_o such_o be_v the_o member_n whereof_o the_o apostle_n speak_v namely_o such_o as_o be_v member_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n judas_n be_v a_o member_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n though_o not_o belong_v to_o election_n a_o further_a proof_n of_o the_o proposition_n you_o shall_v find_v 1._o cor._n 12.26.28_o he_o be_v no_o priest_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n that_o be_v not_o a_o jew_n by_o profession_n yea_o and_o of_o the_o line_n of_o aaron_n too_o and_o shall_v he_o be_v account_v a_o minister_n among_o we_o that_o be_v a_o stranger_n from_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o a_o profess_a idolater_n ishmael_n and_o esau_n be_v circumcise_v and_o the_o son_n of_o those_o father_n unto_o who_o the_o covenant_n be_v make_v even_o i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o thy_o seed_n they_o and_o their_o posterity_n fall_v from_o true_a religion_n well_o admit_v that_o the_o profanation_n of_o circumcision_n have_v still_o continue_v in_o their_o house_n yet_o a_o man_n supply_v