naughtinesse of the argument We graunt that to iudge aright of Ecclesiasticall matters is a great gift of God but that the iudgemeÌ„t of ecclesiasticall matters is onelie to be restrained to binding and losing as you here define what you meane by iudging in matters of faith this is a manifest falsehood True it is that binding and losing can not rightly be withoute iudgement nor withoute right iudgement and therefore your Pope and you doe erre so often herein both binding that that should be losed and losing that that should be bound errante claue as ye terme it your key erring and erring also not onely in things to be bounde or losed but in the power it selfe of binding losing too Yet notwithstanding binding and losing and the iudgement requisite in binding and losing are two distinct and seueral things and iudgement reacheth furder to other things also euen in the Priest himselfe besides the Princes iudgement And therefore as this definition of iudgement in matters of faith is preposterously brought in for ye oughte before to haue defined what ye ment by iudgemente so is it false for other matters of faithe require iudgement besides binding and losing Now where you say this power commeth not of the principles of our corrupt nature but of the free mercie of God you say truth But that ye adde the mercie of God is made manifest vnder the time of the newe testament partlye by the law written partly not written is spoken ambiguously For that Princes iudged in matters of faith was also made manifest in the olde Testament but that Princes haue power to binde and lose we graunt is neither manifest nor couert neither in the olde or newe As for the newe lawe to be deuided into written and not written is another error and impertinent to this question Your vnwritten lawe of the new Testament we stand not vpon But to affirme that by neither way written or vnwritten no power is giuen to kings in Ecclesiasticall matters that we denie and your self haue rather confuted it thaÌ„ hither to confirmed it But to confirme it ye bring out this reason Neither were thene at the beginning any Christian Kings to whom Christ shoulde haue committed any power nor the Apostles gaue any rule according where vnto the kings should iudge of Ecclesiasticall causes That there were no Christian kings then is not materiall For by this rule they should be no defenders of the faith neither bicause Princes were not theÌ„ defenders of it But that the Apostles gaue no rule whereby they should iudge is false For whosoeuer should iudge shuld iudge by gods word and this rule Christ and his Apostles gaue in generall But that Princes mighte iudge is both proued from the olde Testament and by the text that M. Saunders himselfe citeth out of the new yea by that he saith immediatly For if any man say kings are appointed iudges in a cause of the faith only bicause by Baptisme they are made spiritual meÌ„ who iudge all things and the spirites do trie those things that are of God this in dede I graunt to be true in the kynde and maner of the priuate but not of the publique iudgement For it is another thing when thou art a member of the Catholike Church nor preferrest thy selfe before thy pastours what is necessarie for thee priuately to Iudge and this the vnction teacheth and another thing to take vpon thee power to teache others and to prescribe to thy Pastors what they ought to do or teache when thou art not called to the publique ministerie of the Church as Aaron was We know there is a difference betwéen priuate and publique Iudgement But that this place of S. Paule The spirituall man Iudgeth all things is only to be vnderstoode of prinate Iudgement is but the priuate iudgement of M. Saunders But it is well that he graunteth priuate iudgement to euery Christian man Neither is it any reason then it shuld be debarred irom any Christian Princes neither is it anye reason that the Prince although in his priuate Iudgement â–ª rightly iudging a matter of faithe to be true shoulde not approue set forth the same publiquely by his princely authoritie And so his priuate Iudgement directs his publique Iudgement For a Prince is not only a priuate man but a publique man also not that he may doe all things of his owne priuate or publique Iudgement nor take vpon him the publique ministerie of the pastour in teaching being not called as Aaron was for this is not ascribed to the Prince bicause he giueth a publique Iudgement in respect he is a publique person but his Iudgement is a publique approbation and establishing of that that is alreadie by others Iudgement â–ª iudged to whome the discussing appertaineth In which discussing althoughe the godly learned clergie being called as Aaron was haue the greatest skill and charge of Iudgement yet the lay men suche as are also learned and godly haue a publique Iudgement too Or else why saith Panormitane we shoulde more beleue a lay man alleaging scripture than the whole councell besides but nowe the truth being once founde out by these learned Iudgements the Princes publique Iudgement as it called them together as it gaue them their charge so it prescribeth what the pastors ought to doe and teache therin without any preiudice to the spirituall pastors Iudgement in the function of his doing and teaching Now hauing thus set downe his owne assertions he will enter on the other part to confute our obiections And first he alleageth this reason of the protestantes In all the olde Testamente we sée gouernors and Kings both to haue prescribed to the priests what they ought to doe in ecclesiasticall matters and also to haue remoued them froÌ„ the ministerie that haue negligently done their dutie To this obiecton M. Saunders answere is this that this reason holdes not from the olde Testament to the new If this came so to passe in the olde Testament saith he yet no reason shuld compell that the same shuld be so in the new Testament sith the reason of the eccl. gouernment is changed And are you changed too M. Saunders that saide before after say make all your booke of it that the ecclesiastical kind of gouernment hath bene alwayes one and that is a viâ—…ble Monarchie euen from Adam to Pope Pius â–ª 5. and said that if the gouernement be changed the Churche must needes be changed tâ—…o and made the gouernement of the olde Testament to be a figure of the new But now that you are beaten with your owne arguments you say they hold not by reason the ecclesiasticall gouernment is changed But I see Maister SauÌ„ders you woulde deale with vs as the riche man dealt with his poore neighbor When the poore maÌ„ complained saying I beseeche your worship be good vnto me for my Cowe hath goared your Bull. What hath he quoth the riche maÌ„
the kings office is a distinct function from the Priests neither impugneth the byshops assertion nor the princes supreme gouernement Conclude this M. Stap. agaynst them that confounde their offices The other parte of your conclusion that the kinges office medleth onely with the common weale by which ye meane onely the ciuill policie and hath nothing to do with any matters perteyning to God or euer ye shall directly proue it on this or any other place in the whole scripture it will finde ye somewhat more to do than ye suppose it will. As for the kinges intermedling with Gods matters your selfe before haue graunted a king may intermedle and be no breaker nor enimie to Gods order And that euen this king Iosaphat vsed a care and diligence about the directing of ecclesiasticall matters that he reformed religion and that godly christian Princes may at this day do the lyke This your selfe haue already graunted And is all this no intermedling dothe it not rather proue he intermedled that as supreme gouernour thereof yea euen ouer the Priestes them selues to whome that charge of doing those matters is committed and yet he neither breaketh the order appoynted by God nor is become an enimie to Gods holy ordinance Ye say it was Gods ordinance and appoyntment what followeth it was not therefore the Princes ordinance and appoyntment also as though these were contrary and coulde not stande togither the one vnder the other the ordinance of God and the ordinance of the king Put case the Priest had ordeined it might it not haue béene Gods ordinance too but the priest ordeined it not but the prince Ergo the Prince immediatly ordeyning it vnder God sheweth that he hath an immediate power vnder him euen aboue the Priests Of whome are these words so precisely spoken he appoynted he commaunded he sayde it shall be so thus shall ye do c was it the Prince or was it the Priest Did Amarias commaunde Iehosaphat or Iehosaphat commaunde Amarias and all the other Priestes and Leuites who is the supreme gouernour of the twaine the commaunder and appointer or he that is commaunded and appoynted Untill therefore that ye can proue that the high Priest Amarias commaunded and appoynted vnto King Iosaphat these things and that the king did not commaund nor appoynt these things to the Priest and Bishop euerie man that hath any vnderstanding will easily perceyue and iudge that the Prince was the Priestes supreme gouernour next vnder God both ouer his person and ouer the thing also wherein he appoynted and commaunded him But sée your constant dealing in this matter â–ª before you made the gouernance of the thing to be more than the gouernance of the person And here as though it were a greater matter to gouerne the person you say If he take vpon him the supreme gouernment thereof euen ouer the Priests themselues to whom the charge is committed Againe before you sayde that Iosaphats dealings were rather with persons than with matters ecclesiasticall But now ye exempt the persons to saying If he take vpon him the supreme gouernment euen ouer the Priests themselues c. he passeth the boundes of his office And thus although for a while ye would shift off the matter by séeming to graunt somwhat to bleare the reader withall yet in the ende contrary to your former graunt ye eaâ—…e your worde and debarre the Prince of all both for matter and persons to But thankes be to God this insample of Iosaphat is so plaine that all these fetches and shiftes that ye are dryuen vnto can so little any way improue his supreme gouernment that euery thing which ye bring agaynst it maketh more and more for it Such is the force of the truth and so doth falsehoode in his owne trippe still ouerturne it selfe The. 16. Diuision THe Bishop alleaging the example of king Ezechias fiâ—…st sheweth what great commendation for his godly gouernment in reforming religion the scripture attributeth vnto him Secondly how he called togither the clergie telleth them their faults declareth to them the wrath of God exhorteth commaundeth them to do their dueties in clensing themselues in making their sacrifices and appointeth their offices prouideth them conuenient portions to liue by and that in all things the clergie and the people obeyed the Kings commaundement which argueth his supreme gouernment ouer all ecclesiasticall persons and causes To this master Stapleton aunswereth first on the olde warrant of his good masters wordes by reiecting all this as insufficient Here is nothing brought in by you sayth he or before by the Apologie as M. Dorman and M. D. Harding do well aunswere that forceth the surmised soueraigntie in King Ezechias but that his power and authoritie was readie and seruiceable as it ought to be in all prynces for the execution of things spirituall before determined not by him as supreme head newly established How well or yll master Stap. your masters haue aunswered this obiection and are aunswered againe is apparant and easie to be iudged by viewing both their answeres Howbeit vnto their wel doings for feare they should not fal out so well as ye pretend you haue done well also to better their answeres with the surplusage of your new stuffe And if it were graunted you M. Stap. that those things which Ezechias did had not bene by him as supreme heade newly established would it folow therevpon that they were not by him as supreme head or gouernour newly reformed neyther hauing bene some of them of olde established before by the priests negligence hauing long time bene corrupted But what letteth why they may not also be sayde to haue bene by him newly established being quite decayed before And so sayth Lyra of the ioy at the great passeouer that long time had ceassed Propter quod quado Ezechias eam renouaeuit fuit maior exultatio quòd noua placent delectant For the which cause wheÌ„ Ezechias renued it there was greater reioising for bicause new things do please and delight So that to them it was a newe establishing But was the brasen serpent pulled downe and destroyed euer before as other Images and hill aulters had béene was the feast of the passeouer euer chaunged before was that order of collations euer ordeyned before was this the Leuites doings of the Priests partes euer done before So that at the least some of these doings were by him newly established and neuer done before but as the necessitie of the time was then so were they commaunded to be done by him and well allowed of God. Yet say you they were not newly established by him as supreme hed but his power authoritâ—…e was ready seruiceable for the execution of things spiritual before determined But if these things were not before determined I pray you master Stapleton whose executioner was he then neither the priests nor the prophets had before determined that he should do or commaund to be done these things
VVorcester 36. b. 37. a An Inuectiue against heresie that it openeth the truth 37. a A comparison of the ignoraunce of thâ—… greatest learned men among the Papists in king Henryes dayes and the cleare knowledge that the Louanists haue nâ—…we 38 a. b. Master Feckenham his repentaunce for confessing the Kings title of supremacie 38. b. A biâ—… quarell at the Bishop for calling this sentence of the Booke of Wisedome In 〈◊〉 ammam non introâ—…it sapientia A sentence of the holy ghost Whervpon he concludeth a discorde in the Protestants writing 39. a. Where he should replie 39. b. 40. a To the Bishops answere he aunswereth not a worde but séeketh starting holes out of another aunswere that he threapeth on the Bishop to haue made before to chalenge him thereby with falshood as being variable in his aunsweres and so aunswering nothing runneth quite from the matter In steade of aunswere in the Bishops argument out of Deut. 13. and. 17. he runneth to a néedelesse proufe that Heresie is a very Idoll And once againe that we haue no warrant by act of Parliament for mariage of ministers for oure doctrine of the Sacrament for our wrytinges and preachings 42. a. When he should aunswere in the ensample of Iosue he is in hand with M. D. Harding and the Apologie with M. Dorman and M. Nowell quarelling for ciphers in misquoting for 〈◊〉 maâ—…er Dâ—…rmans theâ—…tes for laye mens presumption to go before Priestes for altering religion at the conuocation 46. b. Challenging the Bishop for running at randon from the marke and willing the Reader to regarde the marke he setteth vp of purpose ix false markes nothing nere the issue in question betwene the Bishop and M. Feck and vnder pretence of those nine markes runneth himselfe at randon into aboue xix impertinent matters of the Iewes acknowledging one high Priest of altering religion of the auncientnesse of Poperie 53. b. of the Priests othe on their Priesthood of abandoning the Pope and general councels of the authoritie of the Scriptures of the determining heresies by them of foraigne authoritie of bestowing ecclesiastical liuings Of Bishops letters patents of restraining their iurisdiction of inhibiting from preaching of payment of tenthes and first fruites of the priuilege of the heathen priestes of Egypt of writing the Queenes title of Priestes receiuing the othe of exempting the nobilitie of a woman Prince and in the ende of all this of Robin Hood and little Iohn and bicause he shooteth at these markes he sayth he hath shot awrie like a blinde man. 54. a. b. 55. a. Where he shoulde directly aunswere to that wherewith master Feckenham is by the Bishop charged for refusing all the prooues of the olde Testament to play the part of a Donatist Master Stapleton snatcheth herevpon occasion to runne out from his matter and to gather togither first a great rabble partly of heresies partly of no heresies to charge vs withall and then trauayleth to heape vp a number of poynts labouring thereby to proue the Protestants to be Donatists medling by this occasion with euery matter that he thought he might enlarge his booke withall with sectes and diuisions with bragging of multitudes with viciousnesse of life of tying the Church to this or that place of corrupting the fathers of visions and myracles of vaunting of Councels of a generall Apostacie of beginning and continuance of doctrine and Bishops of complayning of good Princes and praysing of ill of defacing the Sacraments and incredible crueltie of the Emperours lawes and the holye Gospels of murthering others and themselues of false martyrs all which sauing his long discourse of thrée or foure pages agaynst master Foxes booke which I remitte to him to be answered is aunswered for his importunitie sake though much of it be more fullie aunswered by others and also quite extrauagant from the matter in hande 57. 58. 59. 60. 61. 62. Fol. 65. He chalengeth vs to be blasphemers he is in hande with contempt of the number of the sacraments with prouinciall and generall Councels with another fling at M. Foxes booke of Martyrs about the articles of Sir Thomas Hitton priest 〈◊〉 Sir Iohn Oldcastle Knight the Lorde of Cobham for putting of heretikes to death for compelling to receyue the fayth for manslaughter 66. a. b. Once againe he is in hande with his olde quarell of Images Idols and the Crosse. 68. b. Where he should aunswere to the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus he letteth them all alone and medleth with other matters nothing to the purpose as with Michael Paleologus Emperour of Greece with thalenging the Grecians for heresies with the heresie of the holy ghost to proceede onely from the father and not from the sonne with the Councell at Lions with the accordment betwene the Grecians and the Latine Church with their reuolt from the same with the spite of the Greeke Bishops From thence he runneth to other matters rayling on the Authour of the Homelie agaynst Idolatrie for calling Michael â–ª Theodorus about his depriuing and funerals that the question of Images was not mooued at the Councell of Lions of the setting vp and continuance of Images in the Greeke Church From hence he runneth to quarelling about the names of Valence and Valentinian and of his and Theodosius his lawe agaynst the picture of the Crosse. Against Bishop Iewel for citing it out of Crinitus simplie as the same Crinitus doth Hereon he entreth into a generall inuectiue agaynst the reading of the Homelies nowe â—…et forth and falleth in praysing of the Homelies in the Popish Church 76. b. 77. a. In steade of aunswering to the Bishops argument out of Saint Paule and Chrysostomes allegation thereon he is in hande againe with master Foxe for setting forth the doyngs of Doctour VVesalian with the Bishop to be but a poore Clearke with the aduauncing of Bishop VVhite and Bishop Gardiner with chalenging the Bishop to be of the Grecians opinion agaynst the proceeding of the holye Ghost from the father and the sonne with the decaye of the Empyre of Greece with a comparison betwéene the decay of Hierusalem besieged at Easter by the Romaynes and the Captiuitie of Constantinople besieged at VVhitsontide by the Turkes with the poynting of Gods â—…ynger wyth the Realmes of Fraunce Scotlande Germanie with the vaunting of his owne plaine and true going to woorke with Michaell and Andronicus once againe and none of all these things eyther aunswering the Bishop or perteyning to the question Last of al where he taketh on him to set downe the state of the question he setteth vp many newe questions neyther in hand betwéene the Bishop and master Feckenham nor any whit defended by vs but méere slaunders of the Papistes of the Princes preaching the woorde of God ministring the Sacraments binding and losing c. Thus handsomely hath he kept himselfe close to the matter and yet euer he crieth haue an eye to the marke and willeth vs still to call for the question and yet himselfe hath thus
chiefly directed to dissuade hir subiects myndes to whome in hucker mucker ye sende these bookes ouer from the acknowledging of the sayde hiâ—… Maiesties supreme authoritie maye it not truly be sayde men maye iustly gather this as youre chiefe ende Is not euery wriâ—…ers chiefe ende to persuade his reader in his principall matter is not this here youre principall matter to improue the taking vpon hir of this authoritie If ye haue any chiefer ende or more principall purpose that is better than this cléere your self and shew it Uerâ—…ly our chiefest end in writing hereof is to persuade hir subiectes that by your deceiuings stand in any mammering to a godly liking of the sayd title as most dâ—…e and lawfull to hir highnesse estate And if yours be not the contrarie hereto let your doings be according and we shal like it the better But see here M. Stapleton how soone ye folter in your numbers and misse in your tale at the fyrste beginning of all ye haue scored vs vp in your marginall score two vntruthes when ye come to counting them twaine afterward in your answere ye recken vs vp thrée saying of the second in your score This is an vntrue and false surmise of Maister Horne as are the other two here also reckning vp that that ye counted for the first And thus wée knowe not whether we haue euen or odde 2. or 3. Wherby all your reckening is marde and false counted Is this your daunce M. Stap. in beginning to trip the round when one lye tumbles out so proprely in the necke of an other But hoysta God blesse them they fallout faire Howbeit as they say it is a good horse that neuer stumbled thoughe it be an euill signe to stumble yea to fall downe right at the first setting out I make proofe by the continuall practise of the Church in like gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir The thirde vntruth you neuer proue the like gouernment namely in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes The truthe or vntruthe of this being referred to the triall in the sayde practise will soone pull backe this thirde dauncer from hopping in your rounde And as for your self ye are a false piper M. Stapleton thus soone vnto your liâ—… to pipe a wrong rounde harping on an other issue than was required of the B. to proue Wherin as your greate falshood â—…hal appeare so your selfe do here halfe graunt this to be no vntruth daring not flatly say the Bishop neuer pro ued the like gouernment which the Bishop only here affirmeth but you denie it in a respect namely say you in al ecclesiasticall things and causes â–ª which the Bishop here affirmeth not nor it is his propre issue in question demaunded of Master Feck and yet he proueth euen that also I haue put into englishe the authors myndes and sentences The fourth vntruth for he wrongfully alleageth both the wordes and meanings of his authours He bringeth no instance at al wherby to proue this that he sayth which til he can do it must go for a lie of his owne making wherby he measureth other mens translations by his owne corrupting his authors wordes sentences mindes and all as is alreadie declared This title is so replenished with vntrue reportes The fyfth vntruth in wrongfully charging M Feckenham for the title of his treatise Whether Master FeckeÌ„hams treatise had a true title or no lette others déeme Maister Feckenham made a treatise entituled by the name of An ansvvere to the Queenes Maiesties Commissioners and the same by writing be deliuered to the Bishop of Winchester and afterwarde sent abroade the sayd Treatise entituled by name The declaration of suche scruples c. as Maister Iohn Feckenham by vvryting did deliuer vnto the Lorde Bishop c. when he neuer deliuered any suche entituled treaâ—…ise vnto him Is this then vntruly or wrongfully donâ—… to charge him of the title of his treatise His sixth and seuenth vntruth trifling denials You. c. not without the helpe of the reste as may be gathered deuised wrote and purposed to deliuer this booke to the Commissioners The eyght vntruth slaunderous Neither doth the Bishop flatly affirme it but only sayth as may be gathered whervpon M. Stapl. can not iustly gather a flat asseueration one way or other â–ª to conclude his vntruth Neither doth M St. improue it any way thoughe â—…e himselfe and that verie often without any coniecturing of the matter and yet can he gather no iust coniecture therof doth boldly charge the Bishop with the helpe of other Which so often as he doth he shoulde remember that this vntruth returneth on himselfe In al which points ye were so answered that ye had nothing to obiecte but seemed resolued and in a manerfully satisfyed The. 9. vntruth M. Feck was neuer so answered And in his couÌ„terblast he saith had not the B. put in these wordes In a maner otherwise it had passed al goodmaner honestie too so vntruly to make report the contrary being so wel known that he neuer yelded vnto you in any one poynt of religion neither in Courte nor yet in mannour nor else where Ye are a mannerly man I perceyue mayster Stapleton and as full of good manners or honestie it appeareth as an egge is full of oatemeale Belike ye haue bene brought vp neyther at courte nor mannour but at Hogges norton as they saye for otherwise what good manner or honestie is this to chalenge youre better of so heynous vntruth and proue nothyng at all agaynste hym but saye the contrarie is well knowne when your selfe knowe it not at al but speake without the booke For shame M. Stapl. learne better maners to referre it to them that were present at the hearing of both parties and then shal ye hazard your honestie and truth a great deale the lesse and shewe your nourture to be the more Wherevpon I made afterwarde relation of good meaning towardes you to certayn honourable persones of the good hope I had conceyued c. The. 10. vntruth incredible VVhat good meaning coulde he haue to him when he would haue him reuolt from the religion by him receiued and professed at Baptisme to reuolt from the faith of Christes catholike churche c. Why Master Stapleton is this incredible that the Bishop hoping of his conformitie in making relation thereof to the honourable might not haue therin a good meaning yea admitte the truth whiche he professeth were as false as you woulde haue it séeme to bée mighte he not for all that haue a good meaning Saule had a good meaning ye wot when he did full ill And how say ye to your Scholemen that speake so muche good of a good meaning yea euen in ill causes But as the Bishop meant wel to him so the cause was good also and your cause naught how well so euer ye meane in an
false Knowledge therfore is not alwayes taken so precisely to be onely of true things but graunting you this precisenesse that knowledge is only taken to be true thingâ—… yet you do yll herein bicause ye take after your ordinarie custome Pro concesso controuersum that to be graunted that is in question whether your or our part be true or false héerin Yea why maye not we saye and that wyth greater reason that you take the truthe for falsehoode and falsehoode for truthe And so you nor any of your syde notwithstanding all youre great bragges and thys your clearkly booke haue anye true knowledge VVell maye ye saye as ye doo moste falsly and to youre poore wretched soule as well in this as in other poyntes moste dangerously beleue the contrarie but know it yee can not vnlesse it were true for knowledge is only of true things and as the Philosopher sayth Scire est per causas cognoscere Do ye know whose words al these be and yet ye sée how they serue our turne far better than yours M. Sta. bycause our cause resteth on the truth which is the infallible worde of God Deus est verax God is true yours is grounded on the doctrines of men Omnis auteÌ„ homo mendax but euery man is a lier And therfore is it lesse maruel sith ignorance and falsehood knowledge truth are al one that ye account somuch of ignorance make it to be the mother of deuotion that ye kepe down the people in ignoraÌ„ce which conspireth with falshood cannot abide knowledge that is linked with truth as ye haue loÌ„g kept the truth vnder a bushel so yet you caÌ„not abide that it shuld come to the knowlege of the people perceiuing the sith knowledge hath begon to spring in the world our cause withal as the truth hath florished yours hath drouped as that falshod wherfore your freÌ„â—… haue cried out vpoÌ„ al good letters séeing that their cause hathe had no greater enimie than knowledge is no greater maynteyner than ignoraunce Qui male agit odit lucem nec venit ad lucem ne opera eius arguantur He that doth euill sayth Christ hateth the lighte nor commeth to the light lest his workes should be reproued Next vnto this you note a rabblement of vntruthes but ye neither number them in youre Calendar but onely marke them with a starre in the forbead nor in youre replie say any more vnto them than this I will not nor tyme will serue to discusse them but why woulde youre will and your time serue you to chalenge them for vntruths and not serue you to discharge your chalenge and your owne truth in prouing them so to be but go to I see there is no remedie wée must tarie your leysure vntil that youre will come on you and that your tyme will serue you Many horrible erroures and superstitions of Monkerie The. 29. vntruth reprochefull and slaunderous This was so vntrue that all the world rang of it and the Papists themselues cried out theron Although ye were in the Tower in king Edwardes tyme that was not for any doubte of the supremacie for that ye still agnised but for other poynts of religion touching the ministration of the sacraments The. 30. vntruth This was not the cause of his imprisonment as shall appeare Here in his beadroll thoughe ye sée he denyeth it â—…latly yet in his counterblast where he toucheth the same he dare not be so impudent But saith as I vnderstande so that if hée be chalenged of rash dealing to affirme that for an vntruth that he stammereth in no will he saye looke my beadroll and ye shall fynde that I denyed it flatly and boldly withoute any stammering at the matter If againe this bolde flatnesse be proued a â—…atte lie â—…ushe will he saiâ—… I referred it in saying it shoulde appeare to my counterblast where I declare no further than I vnderstode by my freendes let it light on them if it be a lie thus cunningly Maister Stapleton hath handled the matter But a manifeste lye it is that he maketh howsoeuer he auonch or mollifie the same For this was a special cause of his imprisonment as those can tell that be yet liuing who were sente to him and to others to persuade them therein And by whome soeuer hée vnderstoode it it is but M. Stapletons and his misseinformers lye And where he would excuse the matter bicause he was examined in the matter of Iustification doth it follow therfore he was not in also for the matter of the sacrament being principally then in controuersie The Bishop only said be was in for other pointes of religion and namely touching the Sacrament but sée howe pretily M. Stapl. would bleare the readers eyes with quarelling at this half point of the sentence least the reader shoulde marke wherin the Bishop principally charged M. Feckenham that hee had confessed this article of supremacie all King Edwardes dayes and so knewe and acknowledged it then contrarie to his pretence of ignorance nowe therin And this digresseth not from the matter in hand But from this M. Stapleton slippeth in great silence and sayeth not a word therto but dalieth about other matters to finde the readers play And so by his owne rule confesseth by not denying the verye poynt in hande that M. Feckenham all king Edwards time though he were in the Tower yet euer hee agnized this title then that he refuseth nowe Wherevnto also you agreed and promised to professe and preache the same in open auditorie wheresoeuer you should be appoynted Wherevpon a right worshipfull Gentleman procured your deliuerance The. 31. vntruth slanderous He was not deliuered vpon any promise of recantation but to bee disputed withall Here M. Stapl. maketh muche adoe to conuince the Bishop of an vntruth and to make it seeme more probable he citeth diuers honourable and worshipfull to witnesse and al nothing to the purpose in hand excusing M. Feckenham of that wherwith no bodie charged him and answering nothyng but by silence consessing that that he was charged withal The bishop made no mention of any conference or disputation had with M. Feckenham after his departure oute of the tower but of that conference whiche was with him maister Moreman and maister Crispine whyle they were in the Tower. When at their owne suite to the councell they desired to haue some learned men with whom to conferre especially about the sacrifice of the Masse the ministration vnder bothe kyndes and the ministration vpon a table and not an altare And at this their sute Master Storie the Bishop then of Chichester and Maister Roberte Horne then parson of All Hallows in Breadsteat now bishop of Winchester were appointed by the honourable counsel to deals with them which they did by the space of a moneth at sundry tymes till that Master Feckenham did â–ª consent with them in all these thrée poyntes and so by maister Hobbies
vnderstande it for I thinke ye vnderstoode not the Byshops wordes your selfe which if ye had done ye wold neuer haue quoted it for an vnâ—…th for shame Ye knowe the Byshop before hauing for the vnderstanding of saint Paules wordes for the Princes ministerie alleaged the ensample of Constantine to shewe that his best ministerie consisteth in his carefull zeale direction of Gods glorie and truth and other matters of religion wherein Eusebius commendeth him being a famous ecclestastical writer and allowed amongst you sythe also Nycephorus another your late famous ecclesiasticall writer coÌ„parâ—…th moste expresly herein the Emperour of his time to Constantine the great what vntruth hath the Byshop committed to say For this cause Nycephorus compareth the one to the other for that he did so neerely imitate his duetifulnesse in ruling procuring and reforming religion to the purenesse thereof If Nycephorus haue not thus in these poynts compared them then a Gods name blame the Byshop that sayde for this cause alâ—…o Nicephorus c. but if Nicephorus haue so done then is the Bishop cleâ—…red of this vntruâ—… that said â—…e did so And if ye haue any quarrel to picke go picke it against Nicephorus that so did and not againste the Byshop that only sayde he did so Nowe whither Nicephorus haue done as the Byshop sayde 〈◊〉 did or no let the reader be vâ—…per The words of Nicephorus are long notwithstanding I will set downe some of them writing to the Emperoure he sayth thus Verily one shall suffice me as I mighte â—…aye for all with whome also perchaunce for that kinred and likelyhood whiche is betweene you and him you will gladly suffer your selfe to be compared and is this any other than that ConstaÌ„tine the great valoure and name among all men Constantine whose memorie ought to be as it were a certaine sprite in all menne VVho helped â—…s in oure moste necessitie and so mightely Constantine the greate in suche artes as belong to an Emperour in prudence incomparable but in feruencie towardes God and in great actes atchieued and contentions susteyned for the true godlynesse he is aboue all euen as the Sun is shining aboue the starres And art not thou O most excellent Prince the verie certain image of him here 〈◊〉 noteth in the margent coÌ„paratur c. The Emperor is coÌ„pared to Constantin the great and is conferred with him verily eueÌ„ so doth the glasse render the right shape of the Image as thou expressest the diuine shewe of his mynde and glisterest again being very like vnto him none otherwise than euen the naturall sonne doth represent his father and although I know well thou wilt disalowe my boldnesse which art chiefly wont to auoyde and beware of such prayses notwithstanding I will not doubte to saye this thing whiche I beeseech thee â—…o suffer me and consider my reason sith I chiefly knowe that thou art the sonne of God by grace and the Lords anointed aboue the reste that thou art the Image of him in all poyntes alyke which manifestly hast obtained the very godly form of him and the force and impression eyther of his liuing or imperial substance c. And so he runneth into particular poyntes wherin he compareth them togâ—…ther Is not all this enough master Sta. to proue the Bishops saying true for this cauâ—…e alâ—…o Nicephorus â–ª c. compareth these two Emperours togither but you 〈◊〉 this and shewing no cause in the world why ye chalenge the Bishop therefore runne to an other quarell about the Emperours name bycause the B. sayde as followeth For this cause also Nicephorus in his Preface before his ecclesiasticall hystorie dothe compare Emanuell Paleologus the Emperoure to Constantine The. 64. vntruth In putting Emanuel for Andronicus Ye are aunswered to this at large in the replye to your Counterblasting theron What soeuer his name were as it is called in question so the Byshop is cleared thereof following your owne principall auâ—…ors doctors that translâ—…ting and setting out this story named him euen as the 〈◊〉 â—…oth Emanuel Paleologus not once nâ—…r twice neyther â—…s the blinde man castes his â—…affe but as they say theÌ„selues on good considerations among them therevnâ—…o And so rehearsetâ—… his noble vertues The. 65. vntruth For this Emperour wâ—… a starke heretike So say you M. Stapleton and so ye reuile him in your Counterblaste for a wretched heretike also and a wicked dooer But your ecclesiasticall writer Nicephorus saith not so of him he reciteth 〈◊〉 many vertue â–ª and also 〈◊〉 and excellent vertues of this Emperour If he were not suche a one or had not such vâ—…rtues as Nicephorus rehearâ—…eth him to haue what is that to the Byshop who only sayth Nicephorus reciteth his noble vertues And to proue this true the whole preface of Nicephorus is manifest beeing for the most part nothing but the Princes coÌ„mendation of such noble vertues as Nicephorus sheweth he was endewed withall He calleth him principâ—…n omniuÌ„ Christi aâ—…antissimo atque humanissimo qui prorsus omnes virtutes complexus nihil rerum pulcâ—…errimarum excellentissimaâ—…um pretermisisti The Emperor most louing of Christ and most â—…teous who hauing throughly aâ—…tained all vertues haste let slip nothing that is moâ—…e faire and excellent It were tedious to râ—…cite al or the quarter of that he citeth in the prayse of this Emperours vertues The preface throughout is manyfest the Byshops allegations that ye can not denie the comparison aforesaide betweene him and Constantine do declare yea your self confesse that Nicephorus doth highly aduance and exâ—… this Emperour But as Nicephorus saith if wée may beléeue him on his credite beeing called of all your side scriptor per onmia verè catholicus a verye catholike writer in all poynts he flattreth him not nor forgeth but speaketh the truth in praysing of him al which dothe sufficiently acquite the Byshoppe for saying that Nicephorus rehearâ—…eth his noble vertues The Princes supremacie in repairing religion decayed The. 66. vntruth Fonde and foolishe as shall appeare This is onely a marginal note that the Bishop prâ—…fireth to all the allegations that he citeth out of Nicephorus to any one sentence of which allegations M. Stapleton answereth nothing But thus iustleth at the marginall note and sendeth vs to his Counterblaste thereon where it shall appeare how vntrue howe fonde and foolishe it is Which the reader shall iudge when he hath read his Counterblaste the answere thereto That by their rule ministerie and seruice not onely peace and tranquillitie but also godlynesse and religion should be furdered and continued amongst men The. 67. vntruth No such wordes in S. Paule Ye doe the Byshoppe manifest iniury M. Stapleton neyther haue ye any vauntage to pretende any of your former quarels at the printe of the letters it is euident the Byshop setteth not down those words as the bare words of the tâ—…rt of S. Paule whiche he cited the line before adverbum
to forsake this religion In the first parte he sheweth that Master Fekenham could not answere the B. him selfe but he sheweth no other reason thereof than this seing his state is such Secondly that the cause why he more than any other of his complices tooke vpon him to answere this least it should appeare to come of his owne ambitious busiositie was only at the request of some of his friends he will not tell of whom for so perhaps be might detect him selfe to be a disciple of BalaaÌ„s marke hyred for lucre to curse with his cursed and blackmouthed Rhetorike the Churche and truth of god And bicause hereby be would haue the reader couertly to vnderstande what kinne a great clerke he is of what terrour to his enemies and estimation among his friendes to entreate him more than any of all the rest to atchieue this enterprise he telleth vs he was not very willing therto bicause forsooth he purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially M. Ievvell for a season to rest and stande to his owne defence if any would charge him Wherein he would not haue ye forget what a lustie prouoker of sharpe aduersaries he is And although for two causes he was lothe to medle therewith first for that many things in this booke pertaine to certaine priuate doinges betwixt M. Feckenham and M. Horne of the vvhich saith he I had no skill secondly for that a number of such priuate matters touching the state of the realme occurred as to them vvithout farder aduice I could not throughly shape any ansvvere yet notwithstaÌ„ding all these thinges that neyther touched M. Stapleton nor he had any skill of them nor could shape any ansvvere to them he must néedes intrude and busie him self to shape some mishapen ansvvere his fingers itched since none of al his sharpe aduersaries would once deigne to answere him to prouoke the B. in these things and where his skill should faile rather than his will should faile he would furnish out his answere with his foresaide common places in which he hath a very good skill and grace As for the residue of his wantes aftervvarde it so hapned saith he that by suche as I haue good cause to credite there came to my knovvledge such instructions as vvell for the one as for the other that I vvas better vvilling to employ some paines and studie in this behalfe How these instructions hapned to him we must not vnderstande all for feare it fall out as they say that asking his felow if he be a theeâ—… two false companions néede no broker As it will I feare me fall out Master Stapleton in the scanning of your false informations whereof your selfe were vnskilfull ye saye but ye haue good cause to credite them were the more vvilling to employ your paines and studie therein and good reason ye should credite them that make any thing for you For why they be credible men of your owne partie be it true or false they tell you recke not you let them beare the blame if they lie you did but tell it for them Why should ye not therefore employ your paines and studie to painte it out that the more willingly since they do paie well for it Now M Stapleton being wel instructed though he promise to take the vvillinger paines and studie in this behalf yet must ye not presuppose that he taketh this vpoÌ„ him for that saith he I thinke my selfe better able than other but for that I vvould not it should seeme there lacked any good vvill in me either to satisfie the honest desire of my friendes or to helpe and releue such as by suche kinde of bookes are already pitifully inuegled and deceaued or to stay other yet standing that this booke be not at any time for lacke of good aduertisement a stumbling stocke vnto them What soeuer here M. Sta. ye pretende of your forward good will who so coÌ„ferreth here with your CoÌ„mon place of boastings crakes may easily returne your own saying on your selfe that these are but vvordes of course to saue your poore honestie least men should sée detest your ambitious vaine glory herein Neyther doth your preposterous zeale couer it any whit except this be to helpe relieue a stuÌ„bler where scarce a straw laye in his waye before to tumble a stocke into his path to make him fall downe right Now that M. St. hath shewed the occasions that pricked him forward to set on the B. He secondly sheweth the manner of his answere Wherein first after his ordinarie crakings of his poore labour of his diligence of his vvhole and full replie he excuseth his long tediouse babling vvherein I rather feare saith he I haue saide to much than to litle which in déede he hath good cause to feare as his Common places do shal declare And yet would he haue euery word put in replied vnto him selfe in his owne coÌ„science hauing sayd to much alreadie But to excuse this faulte he hath a sufficient reason at hande that tediousnes is good to make al perfect and therefore he had rather be tediouse than shorte Thus hauing handsomly excused the matter he secondly sheweth the order of the Bishops booke M. Hornes ansvvere as he calleth it resteth in tvvo partes Why M. St. how call you it may it not thinke you be called an answere that answereth the demaunde or request of an other but as you wrangle péeuishly about the name so that curiouse fine pate of yours disdeyneth the playnâ—… and simple name of an answere or replie or any other vsuall worde as ye pretende to auoyde confusion but in déede to shew some singuler conceite and excelleÌ„cie of your booke which so finely ye Entitle A counterblaste to say the truth a blast not worth a counter to counterblowe and all to blast the Bishops answers with all The two partes that he deuides the Bishops booke into are these In the first saith he and chiefest he playeth the opponent laying forth out of the holy Scriptures both Olde and Nevve out of Councels both generall and nationall out of Histories Chronicles of all couÌ„tries running his race froÌ„ Constantine the great dovvne to Maximilian great grandfather to the Emperour that novv liueth taking by the vvay the Kings of France of Spaigne and of our owne countrie of England since the conquest all that euer he coulde finde by his ovvne studie and helpe of his friendes partly for profe of the like gouernmeÌ„t of Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes as the oth attributeth novv to the crovvne of Englande partely for the disproofe of the Popes supremacie vvhich the othe also principally extendeth to exclude In the secoÌ„d and later parte he playeth the defendaÌ„t taking vpon him to ansvvere and to satisfie certaine of M. Feck â–ª argumeÌ„ts and scruples of coÌ„scieÌ„ce vvherby he is moued not to take the othe Hovv vvell he hath played both his partes â–ª the perusall of this
thought not so and yet bothe of them politike stout and prosperous Princes But whereto doth M. St. thus colourably so highly extoll the vertuous quiet prosperouse most honorable and most victorious estate of those noble wise stoute and coragious princes that he saith neuer heretofore dreamed of this kinde of supremacie can he dreame out this so drylie against his most gratious soueraigne the Q. Maiestie now that not only of right claymeth but most godly directeth this supremacie to blemish her highnesse with her noble auncesters and thinketh he this his byiouse nippe could not easily be espied Yes M. Stapleton it is easie to sée your good harte and what opinion ye haue of her highnesse But albeit comparisons be odious chiefly of the liuing with the dead De quibus nil nisi bonum whom we ought to speake reuerently vpon yet notwithstanding thus muche may I say without derogating from them or â—…lattrie of her for he flattreth not that saith that which eche true man findeth true her highnesse in no point that you recken is inferiour to any her royall progenitors in many farre greater pointes that ye recken not doth farre surmount them all Which I speake not to boast of but that God whose giftes they are make her thankful for them vs thankful for her And therefore go the matter by wisedome fortitude quietnes vertue honorable prosperous and victorious raigne her Maiestie that claymeth this title her Brother and Father before her also haue as good plea for them as any other princes of England can haue that neuer claymed the same And therefore leaue this crake M. St. of vpbrayding to her highnesse the good giftes of her predecessours for thankes be to God that hath giueÌ„ hir all the same or more hir grace hath had hitherto a most quiet prosperous and victoriouse raigne and yet hath claymed and enioyed this supreme gouernment withall yea the one hath strengthned the other And God for his mercy coÌ„tinue prosper hir maiestie long therein And in déede this is that ye whine at that God stil so prospereth the successe of his Gospell by her 〈◊〉 so God hath promised Q â—…cunque honori ficauerit me â–ª glorificabo eum thus he glorified Salomon when he sought the wisedome truth of God before the riches might of worldly Princes so hath God blessed her Highnesse aboue many Christian princes for that she directeth all her gouernment to the setting forth of his glory Peccator videbit irascetur all you Popish enimies beholding and gnashing your téeth thereat But who would thinke M. Stapl. were one or the Papists any they haue of him so swéete and fine a proctor with so fayre wordes to couer so foule disobedience And albeit saith he the Catholikes wishe to the Q. Maiestie as quiet as prosperous as loÌ„g â–ª as honorable an Empire to the glory of God as euer had Prince in the world are as wel affected to her highnes as euer were good subiectes to their noble Princes aforesaide Ye recken not vp so many times as as as as as as as as he were a very asse that would beleue you for all your goodly wishes and painted affections such faire wordes may make fooles faine and beleue that all is golde that glistreth But what in harte you wishe and in déede you attempt her grace hath tried throughly all men well perceyue But God sendeth a curst cow short hornes God sende her Maiestie long safetie froÌ„ the fained teares of such wel wishing Crocodiles And theÌ„ with the grace of God she shall do wel inough maugre all hollow harted Papists But go to now tell on M. Stap. if ye wish her highnes thus wel as ye wold séeme why refuse ye your duetiful obedieÌ„ce Albeit say you the catholikes wishe thus yet can they not finde in their harts to take the Othe not for any sinister affectioÌ„ c. but onely for conscience sake grouÌ„ded vpon the Canons and lawes of the holy church and the continuall practise of all christian and Catholike realmes finally vpon holy Scripture namely that saying of S. Peter O portet obedire Deo magis quà m hominibus God must be obeyed more than men Is not here a fayre cloke to couer the Papists disobedieÌ„ce to their Prince withall all whose open stubbornesie and priuie practises against their Prince countrie are not forsooth of any sinister affection but euen for conscience sake But what manner a conscience is this that ye do it for M. Stapl. is it not such an other conscience as Sir Thomas More telleth the Wolfe had to whom when the Foxe his ghostly father enioyned him penance for his rauening that he should neuer after deuoure any thing that he thought in his conscience was aboue the value of sixe pence the penitent Wolfe afterward seing a fat cow with her calfe feeding in a medow being hungrie and gréedie of his pray yet durst he not breake his ghostly fathers rule till he had examined in his conscience the price of them On my conscience ê™ the Wolfe this cowe is but worth a groate and then of conscience can her Calie be hardly worth halfe as muche Now if you M. Stapl. and your fellowes haue this woluish conscience to deuoure the shéepe of Christ the cow and calfe and all to burne the people of God to persecute his truth to betray your countrie to strangers to disobey your naturall Prince and so can set your conscience that all is done for conscience then as many haue to little consciences so you haue a great deale to much And such large consciences God defend vs froÌ„ But to shew that your conscience is no better I pray ye whereon is it grounded Grounded vpon the Canons lawes of the holy Church and the coÌ„tinual practise of all Christian and catholike realmes Do ye ground your consciences vpon the Canons lawes of the church that is vpoÌ„ the practise of man this is but a sandie grouÌ„d M. St. for a christian coÌ„science in a matter of religioÌ„ that ye say is the waightiest of all points in controuersie the fountaine of al other to be builded founded vpon And yet the one of these groundes is a manifest lying crake of the continuall practise of all Christen realmes which ye haue not yet proued crake of it and grounde your conscience on it when ye haue proued it for before ye do but set your conscience on the tenterhookes to presume of that ye haue not proued The other is euen the wolues conscience vp and downe that grounded his conscience of his owne gréedie desire so you grounde your conscience on the canons and lawes of the holy Church And what is the holy Church with you on your conscience Forsooth on our conscience holy Church is our selues that be the Bishops Monkes Friers and priestes We say you are the holy Churche and our owne lavves and canons are the lawes and canons
of holy Church and all that is giuen to vs is giuen to holy Churche And so ye grounde your consciences after your owne lawes and Cannons as the wolfe did after his Are not these good woluishe consciences But haue ye no better grounde of your conscience than these two yes say you finally we ground our consciences vpon holy Scripture namely that saying of S. Peter oporteâ—… obedire deo magis quam hominibus God must be obeyed more than men In déede M. St. if ye can make this a grounde it is a much surer grounde than the other twayne the sacred worde of God and the obedience that ye owe to god Howbeit sithe euery pretence of obedience to God and euery wresting of Gods worde is no good grounde of conscience neither the worde of God nor the obedience to God taketh away the obedience that is due to the Prince Howe do ye frame your argument from S. Peters saying God muste be obeyed more than man Ergo the Q. Maiestie can not be obeyed for supreme gouernour vnder God in all ecclesiasticall causes within hir dominions This argument is so fonde it might serue any traytor or any other to disobey his Prince vnder pretence of conscience and therefore can not cleare you from the sighes and grones that ye make for your foresayde change where with the Bishop rightly chalengeth M. Feckenham These arguments nowe pretending conscience béeing not sufficient to discharge the Papistes of disobedience M. St. addeth to them two more the one by obiecting the like to vs that we sighe and grone for the change of other princes nor affected in religion as we be And so he thinketh to put away this reason from them selues that the B. maketh agaynst them The Papistes do not obey but impugne the Q. Maiesties authoritie Ergo they wishe and looke with diepe sighes and groanes for a change therof The other argument that M. St. maketh agaynst this he frameth thus diuers papists haue lost their goods and are ready to lese their life Ergo they wishe not for this change This argument as it serueth no more their cause than any other heretikes so it followeth not but rather the contrarie that the more they léese the more they wishe the change And to shew this as one that had forgotten himselfe whyle he craketh what witte body and lyfe he would employ for his prince and countrey adding withall this exception if the case so require he bursteth out into a diepe sighe and groane for a change saying And for my parte I pray God hartily the tryall once woulde come What case is this ye speake off so doubtfully master St. if it be not a change that leauing your argumente ye fall thus deuoutly to your beades pray so hartily promising to employ your pregnant witte your proper body yea venture your life and all that once it might come if it be not a change if ye meane well why be you not at home and in your natiue countrey employ your witte body like a good subiect as ye ought to do but subtract your bodie and bende your witte your body and all your endeuour by all malicious practises agaynst hir Malesties authoritie herein â–ª abusing dayly not onely by suche your inuectiue Pamphlets dispearsed abroade in hucker mucker hir Maiesties subiectes here quiet at home to make them mislike hir Highnesse regiment but also to slaunder hir abroade to other Nations besides your continuall whisperers whom ye sende aboute instilling into the peoples heades a hope or feare of a chaunge to come bearing the people in hand euen from hir Maiesties first raigne that the nexte Easter the nexte Midsomer the nexte Michelmas the nexte Christmas the nexte quarter the nexte halfe yeare the nexte yeare we shall haue a chaunge And thus from yere to yeare ye fode them on with vayne hope nourishing priuie rebellion in their hearts or at least to make the people to faynt and murmure as the searchers of the lande of promise did to the children of Israell But God be blessed that hitherto hath defeated all your blinde prophesies He will confounde the hypocrites hope and establishe his truthe for euer Nowe to put away this cryme from the Papists and to charge vs therewith he alledgeth first the practise of the Paynims and Ievves and Heretikes The effecte of hys argument is this Diuers Heretykes vsed greate cruelties and seditions for that they misliked the contrarie religion to theirs Ergo the Papistes misliking the Quéenes maiesties authoritie and wishing a chaunge thereof make not in so dooing a preparation to sedition but we that acknowledge the same do make it I answere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est A false Papiste is a perillous beast And if hotte burnyng cruell handeling trayterous poysoning pitifull murdering horrible tragedies tragicall enormities priuie and great conspiracies all which he obiecteth to vs in the sustian fumes of his boystrous Rhetorike be arguments of Paynims Iewes or Heretikes then â—…one better than the Papistes haue deserued those titles And here as he thinketh béeing gotten into a plentyfull â—…ayne he runneth into Germanie Denmarke Swethlande Englande Fraunce and Scotlande froÌ„ these to the low countreys of Brabant Hollande Flaunders and Lukelande from thence to Monster then to the Duke of Saxonie and the Lantgraue of Hesse agayne to Denmarke and Swethlande and for his witnesse he bringeth in one as good as him selfe Frederike Staphilus From thence sodenly to Charing crosse and to Towre hill then haue ouer the water agayne to Fraunce Piemont Geneua Gascoigne Rhone Orleance Lions skipping in and out and it were a Iacke of Bedlam raking euery corner to picke quarels and deuise lyes by the Protestants And what proofe of all this alledgeth he forsooth I referre you M. Horne to an oration made of this matter expressely and pronounced here in Louayne and translated eloquently and printed in our Englishe tongue Naye then it must néedes be true M. St. who dare gainesay it if suche a man of credence as you will referre all these discourses vnto that oration yea and that it was pronounced among you in Louayne where God wot neuer lye is pronounced yea and besides all this it is translated eloquently in our Englishe tongue and printed too these are sore arguments I promise you as euer I heard so wise a man make to proue the truth of all thâ—…se accusations that ye lay to the protestants charge But M. Stap. and ye would follow my councell ye should let all these by quarels go and referre your selfe to your matter But ye wil first make an other vagarie and sée the countreys once agayne so may ye write vs ouer lies â—…owe by authoritie as ye do full handsomly for after ye haue bene at Scotlande and are returned to your lovve countreys of Flaunders we haue fiue leaues togither entituled the rebellion of Flaunders with a swarme of reprocheful staunders to deface the Gospell with sedition hurliâ—… bâ—…rlies and
other I build this argument euen according to your owne definition of a supreme gouernour and master Feckenhams offer A supreme gouernour is he say you that hath the chiefe gouernment of the thing gouerned in those actions that belong to the ende wherevnto the gouernor tendeth But the actions of Ecclesiasticall persons ouer whome the Prince is supreme gouernour as master Feckenham hath graunted doe belong properly to the ende wherevnto the Prince tendeth to wete not onelye to mainteyne the common peace and tranquilitie but also to sée that Gods religion and seruice be purely and syncerely had and kept amongst the subiects Ergo In these actions the prince is supreme gouernour and so by consequence in all causes and actions ecclesiasticall To proue the minor first that all the trauayle of all godly Preachers in the worlde is to this ende is playne and manifest That this is also the chiefe ende of the Princes gouernement both your selfe master Stapleten at length haue confessed centrarie to your former heathen limitation and also the verye heathen and prophane wryters themselues so well as Christian haue acknowledged Wherein master Stapleton both sheweth his great follie in reasoning that heathen Princes did not regarde religion Ergo they ought not especially to haue regarded it and also bewrayed his ignorance in the antecedent of this his vaine reason for the heathen though they erred in mistaking religion yet they knewe and taught that it was an especiall care and ende of the Princes gouernment I speake not howe Plato in his bookes de rep legib reckoneth the care of Religion to be a chiefe ende of theyr authoritie And yet will I note two sentences out of Aristotle whome to denie your Sorbonistes make more than petit heresie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sayth he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other Cityes the sacryfices are left onely to the Kinges And agayne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the Capitaine was â—…oth King and Iudge and Lorde of the deuine matters And to proue this by the storyes of heathen Princes Numa Pompilius hath his chiefest commendation not so muche for making ciuill lawes and pollicies to the Romaynes as for his lawes about theyr religion theyr Priestes theyr Nunnes theyr Sacrifices The Magistrates of Athens did sitte in iudgement and condemned Socrates when Anitus and Melitus accused him for false religion The Romaine Princes them selues woulde labour principally for the office of the chiefe Bishoppe whiche terme Pontifex Maximâ—… the Bishoppe of Rome nowe chalengeth Tiberius promoted to the Senate of Rome as to those that had the care and gouernement of theyr religion that Christ might be accounted among theyr Gods. Yea in the Scripture is declared that Nabuchaâ—…nezar the King of Babylon an Heathen Prince and vtterly destitute of the truthe before God gaue him some sparâ—…kes thereof yet made hée a lawe of worshipping hys owne Image And King Darius of Persia made a decrée that none shoulde worship God in certayne dayes In all which matters although these heathen Princes crred from the truth yet they thought that religion which they mistooke for truth to be a principall part belonging to their gouernment Although therefore master Stapleton ye doe great iniurie to Christian Princes to make their state common with the Paganes yet do you more iniurie herein to them than the heathen did to their heathen princes Was it lawfull for them in their heathen gouernment to haue so especiall a care aboute their heathen and false religion and is it not lawfull for godly Christian Princes to haue the like or more aboute Chrystes true Religion Is the ende of their gouernment common to both alyke as ye say and yet the Heathens stretched further than doeth the Christian Princes Iohannes de Parisus affirmeth that this is a false supposition of yours Master Stapleton Quod potest as regalâ—… c. That the kingly power is corporall and not spirituall That the Kingly power hath the cure of the bodie and and not of the soules Sithe it was ordeyned to the common profite of the Citizens not euery profite but that profite which is to liue according to vertue Herevpon sayth the Philosopher in the Ethikes that the intention of the lawmaker is to make men good and to enduce them to vertue And also in the Politykes he sayth that as the soule is better than the bodie so a lawmaker is better than a Physition bicause the lawmaker hath care for the soules and a Physition for the bodie Nowe as the Philosophers ascribed this ende in the Heathens false religion in vertues of lyfe and care of the soule to the gouernement of Heathen Princes Doth not Saint Paule shewe as muche and more trowe you for the ende of Christian Princes gouernement in these thinges Ut 〈◊〉 tranquillam vitam degamus in omni pietate honestate That we may leade sayth he a quiet and peaceable life in al godlinesse and honestie Was this no further master Stapleton than safetie quietnesse worldly wealth aboundance and prosperous maintenance Did the great Constantine stretche the ende of his gouernment no further when he sayde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 debere ante omnta scopum esse â—…udicaus c. I iudged that this oughte before all other thinges to be my scope that among the most holye multitudes of the Catholike Churche one fayth and syncere charitie and godlinesse agreeing togither towardes almightie God might be conserued Did the whole assemblye of Byshoppes in the first generall Councell at Constantinople limitte no further the endes of Theodosius gouernment when they confessed that God instituit imperiuâ—… Theodosâ—… ad communempacem ecclesiarum sanae fidâ—… confirmationem God did orday ne the gouernement of Theodosius for the common peace of the Churches and the confirmation of the sounde fayth Did Saint Augustine beléeue that Princes gouernement reached no further when he sayde Reges in terris seruiunt Christo faciendo legeâ—… pro Christo Kinges in the earth doe serue Christe in making lawes for Christe Did Iustinian suppose hys authoritie tended no further when he wrote Legum Authoritas diuinas humanas res bene disposuit The authoritie of the lawes hath well disposed both the deuine and humaine matters Did the mâ—…ste Christian King of Spaine Richaredus thinke that the ende of hys gouernement stretched no further when he sayde openly in the thirde Councell at Tolet before all the Bishoppes there assembled Quanto subditorum gloria Regali extolliâ—…r tanto prouidi esse debemus in his quae ad Deum sunt c Howe muche more we bee exalted in royall glorie ouer our subieâ—…es so muche more ought wee to bee carefull in those matters that appertayne to God eyther to augment our owne hope or else to looke to the profite of the people committed to vs of god And as ye see me in verie deede inslamed wyth the feruencie of fayth God hath styrred mee vp to this ende that the obstinacie of
ought to counte the Canonicall scriptures in so much that I might not their honour which is due to those men saued improue or refuse any thing in their writinges â–ª c. And writing to Paulina of the credite to be giuen to the Scripture Alijs vero testibus c. As for any other witnesses saith he or testimonies whereby thou arte moued to beleue ought to be it is lawfull for thee to beleeue it or not to beleeue it And so saith S. Herome Quod scripturae sacrâ—… authoritatem non habet eadem facilitate contemnitur qua recipitur That that hath not authoritie of the holy Scripture is as easily dispised as receyued So saith Chrysostome Nullis omnino credendum nisi dicant vel faciant quae conuenientia sunt scripturis sanctis Thou must beleue none without they say or do those things that are agreeable to the Scriptures And againe Si quid absque scriptura dicitur c. If any thing be spoken without the Scripture the knowledge of the hearers halteth nowe graunting now staggering now and then detesting the talke as vayne now and then as probable receyuing it But wheras the scripture is there the testimonie of Gods voice commeth forth both confirming the talke of the speaker and confirming the minde of the hearer So S. Cyprian Legat hic vnum verbum c. Let him reade the onely woorde and on this commaundement let the christian religion meditate and out of this scripture he shall finde the rules of all doctrine to flowe and to spring from hence and hither to returne what soeuer the Churches discipline doth conteyne So saith Cyrill Necessarium nobis est diuinas sequi liter as in nullo ab earum prascripto discodere It is necessâ—…rie for vs to follow the diuine writinges and to swerue in nothing from their prescript rule And 〈◊〉 these Fathers so all the Doctours be plaine not to allow much lesse to determine any doctrine not onely contrarie but also besides the worde of God. Nor the Auncient doctours onely but also diuerse of the popish writers affirme that neither the Churche the Bishops the Pope nor any prouincial or generall couÌ„cel hath powre to determine any doctrine to be true or false otherwise than onely by the authoritie of the Scriptures to declare them so to be So saith Thomas of Aquine In doctrina Christs Apostolorum c. In the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles all truth of faith is sufficiently layde forth Howbeit to beat downe the errours of heretikes and of peruerse men certaine opinions of faith ought many times to be declared And of the same minde also is your great captaine Frier Alphonsus de Castro who attributing farre more to the popish Church and the Pope than he ought to do yet in this point after long disputation and argumentes on the matter he concludeth Nullo ergo modo c. It can by no meanes therefore be that the church may make any new article of faith but that the which before was the true faith and yet was hidde from vs the churche by hir censure maketh that it may be knowne vnto vs Whereuppon appeareth that my Lord Abbate did miserably erre who expounding the chapter that beginneth Câ—…m Christus which is had in the booke of the Decretall epistles in the title de Hereticis saith that the Pope can make a newe article of the faithe But he must be borne withall being ignorant nor well weighing of what thing he spake this onely I see must be laide in his dish that he Iudged beyond the slipper for it is not the office of Canonistes to Iudge of heresie or of faith but the office of Diuines to whom Gods lawe is committed The Canonistes partes are to descant of the Popes lawe Looke they to it therefore least while they couet to sit on both stooles the taile come to grounde as is the Prouerbe Thus sharpely concludeth Alphonsus against my Lord Abbate and all popish Canonistes that would intermedle with writing in Diuinitie I knowe not whether you Master Stapleton were any such or nâ—… but many of your site are euen such as he speaketh of that woulde studie bothe the Popes lawes and Gods lawes togither and so lay them both in the duste For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christi Behal VVhat felowship is there betwene Christ and Belial Thus writeth he that neither the Pope nor his 〈◊〉 nor the Church can determine faith or hereâ—…ie without the worde of God. And so saith Ferus Cum contâ—…leris falsaâ—… doctrinâ—…m c. When you shall conferre the false doctrine ye shall finde out the errour For the onely holy Scripture is the rule of the truthe from the which whatsoeuer differeth or doth contrarie it is darnell and errour in what countenaunce soeuer outwarde it come forthe For he that is not with me is against me saith Christe Herevppon the Apostles and Disciples in the primitiue Churche did dayly search the Scriptures whether they were so or no. For oft time it commeth to passe that that is iudged errour which is not errour and contrarie wise Here therefore the Scripture iudgeth So Christe was Iudged a transgressour of the lawe but if ye conferre him with the Scripture you shall see he agreeth best therewith On the contrary the traditions of the Phariseys seemed good which not withstaÌ„ding Christ conferring with the Scripture plainly sheweth they are contrarie to the Scripture And therefore Dauid in all that octonarie desireth nothing els but to be directed by the worde of God. And the same Ferus in the eleuenth chap. of Matthew Baculus arundâ—…neus est quicquid extra verbum des traditur c. VVhat soeuer is giuen without the worde of God is a rodde of a reede For it is al onely the worde of God which we may safely leane vppon in so much that from hence thou mayst see what frowarde deceyuers they be that for the worde of God would onely set foorth vnto vs their dreames that is a rodde of a reede Hereuppon the true Apostles gloried most of all on this that they deliuered nothing but the woord of God so saith Peter Not following vnlearned â—…bles we make knowne to you the powre and presence of our Lord Iesus Christe so Paule doth glory that he receyued not the Gospell of men but by the reuelation of Iesus Christe Whereon he inferreth if therefore any preache any other thing let him be accursed As though he shoulde say â–ª we haue preached the woorde of God whereto ye may safely leane â–ª accursed therefore be he that for the certayne worde of God bringeth a rodde of a reede that is to say mannes feigninges Thus hitherto agrée euen these Papists with the auncient Fathers that nothing may be decided to be true or false neither by Church Councell Pope or any Man nor any Angell with out the authoritie of Gods worde so to iudge and confirme the same But say you by this rule it
that said there was no difference betweene Priest and Bishop betweene him that fasted and that did not fast and that the sacrifice for the dead was fruitlesse Howe say you to Iouinian that denied virginitie to haue any excellencie aboue Matrimonie or any speciall rewarde at Gods handes to the Arians that denied the miracles done at Saints tombes to be true Miracles and that the Martyres can not cast out the Diuels and relieue them that be possessed To the Bogomiles that said the Diuels sate at the Saints tombes and did wonders there to illude and deceyue the people to cause the people to worship them To Berengarius condemned in diuerse Councels first for denying of the Real presence in the Sacrament of the Altare and then for denying the Transubstantiation To the Paulicians that said these woordes of Christ take eate this is my bodie are not to be vnderstanded of his bodie or the bread and wine vsed at the celebration of our Lordes maundie but of the holy Scriptures â–ª which the priestes should take at Christes hande and deliuer and distribute to the people To Claudius and Vigilantius that denied the inuocation of Saintes and enueighed against the blessed reliques and the vse of lightes and other ceremonies of the Church To the Massilians and other heretikes saying that concupiscence as a sinne remaineth in vs after holy baptisine And bicause ye shall not say I suppresse conceale or obscure the chiefe and most notable persons of your auncestrie how say ye to the Emperours Philippicus Leo Constantinus condemned with their adherentes by the seuenth general Councel at Nice that villayned by defacing breaking and burning the images of all the holy hallowes of Christ and Christes to to whome for your more honour and glorie I adioyne the Emperour Iulianus the Apostata VVho as ye do in your bookes and pulpits cried out vppon the Christians O ye wretched men that worship the wood of the Crosse setting vp the signe of it vppon your foreheads and dores you therefore that are of the wisest sorte are worthy to be hated and the residue to be pitied that treading after your steppes come to such a kinde of wretchednesse To the Pelagians affirming that children not Baptised shal be saued and yet are your Maisters in this point worse than the Pelagians aswell for that some of them haue saide that some infantes though vnbaptized shal be damned and some other though vnbaptized shal be saued And some of them especially Caluine and other Sacramentaries say that they shall come without Baptisme to the kingdome of heauen which the Pelagians durst not say but that they should haue the life euerlasting putting a difference but peeuishlie betwixt these two And if ye thinke the race of your worthie generation is not fetched high inough we wil mount higher and as high as may be euen to Simon Magus him selfe Of whome Marcion and Manicheus and after long and honorable succession your Patriarches Luther and Caluine haue learned their goodly doctrine against free will. Yea to touche the very fundation and wellspring of this your new Gospell which altogether is grouÌ„ded vpon Iustification without good works in that also ye draw very nigh to the said Simon Magus In all this here is nothing els but the heaping vp of an impertinent sâ—…launderous and maliciouse rable partely of Heretikes partely of no Heretikes some of them falsely belied most of them falsely applied eyther they defending no such things or some of these us Heresies nor any of their Heresies mainteyned of vs. First for the Arianisme of Aerius with whom M. Stapleton beginneth would God the Papistes had not as much defaced the glory of Christ as did the Ariaus but he findeth no faulte with them therefore He vpbraydeth to vs thrée other pointes First that Aerius said there was no difference betweene Priest and Bishop and ye aâ—…e M. Stapleton how say we to him What soeuer we say to him we haue first to say to you that sauing the reuerence of your Priesthood there is no difference betweene you and a lier to obiect Aerius herein to vs Whereas ye know well inough our Church doth acknowledge in the ministerie a difference of Deacon and Elder from a Bishop although not according to your Popish orders For as neyther Epiphanius nor yet Augugustine quoted by you speaketh there of any sacrificing Priest so he neuer knewe any such Pontificall prelates as your Popishe Churche bréedeth And yet of those that were euen then in Epiphanius time and of their difference from the Elders or Priestes if ye know not how it came Hierome that liued in the same age will tell you or if ye haue not redde him your owne Canons will tell ye what he saithe I dem est ergo Presbyter qui Episcopus antequam Diabols studia c. An Elder or Priest therefore is the same that a Bishop and before that the studies of the Diuell were made in Religion and that the people saide I holde of Paule I of Apollo I of Cephas the Churches were gouerned by the common Counsell of the Elders but after that euery one did accompt those to be his and not to be Christes whome he had Baptized in all the worlde it was decreed that one of the Elders being chosen should be placed aboue the rest to whom all the care or charge of the Church should belong and the seede of scismes be taken away And a litle after Sicut ergo Presbyteri as therefore the Elders know that they by the custome of the church are subiect to him that is set ouer them so let the Bishops know that they more by custome than by the truth of the Lordes dispeÌ„sation are greater than the Elders This was the iudgement of the auncient Fathers yet were they no Arians nor Aerians therefore Yea Peter Lombarde the maister of the sentences citing also Isidorus to witnesse saith Apud vetereâ—… idem Episcopi Presbyterâ—… fuerunt Among the auncient Fathers Bishops and Elders were all one And againe alleaging the Apostle S. Paule he saith Qualis autem â–ª c. But what manner an Elder ought to be chosen the Apostle writing to Timothie declareth where by the name of Bishop he signifieth an Elder And anon after Cumque omnes and when all of them he meaneth his false seueÌ„ orders are spirituall and holy yet the Canons account only two orders to be excelling holie that is to say Deaconship and Eldership Bicause the primitiue Churche is redde to haue these alone and we haue the Apostles commaundement of these alone for the Apostles in euery Citie ordeined Bishops and Elders Neyther the Master only writeth thus but almost all your schoolemen yea though they be them selues of the contrarie opinion yet they write this was the auncient opinion And so Durandus though he make a difference betwéene the power of Iurisdiction the power of order yet he sheweth that
so saith an other church we haue it Nay sayth the thirde neither of ye both haue it but we Héere the one partie or the other say not true yet al work miracles after their miraculous maner But will ye know the truth they were false harlots al deceiued the séely soules that now God be praysed vnderstaÌ„d the knacks of S. Wenefrids néedle the renewing of the bloud of Nayles the filth of S. FraÌ„cis bréeches c. These were your blessed Reliques They were so blessed that as your great champion frier Alfonsus sayth where he defendeth them your blessed couÌ„cell of Laterane vnder your blessep Pope Innocent the thirde was fayne to make this prouiso for them that is put in your decrées Cum ex eo c. Seeing that the Christian religion is defaced and may be defaced in time to come vpon this that certayne do set out to sale the Saints Reliques and euery where shew them foorth we haue ordeined by this present decree that froÌ„ hence foorth the olde Reliques shal in no case be shewed without a cause that is to say without a péece of money to sée them nor shall be set foorth to sale and that suche as shall be found out of newe no man presume to worshippe them till they shall be allowed by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome that is to say till they haue payed their fées to him for before they be so litle blessed that they be not worshipfull and as for Prelates they shall not suffer those that come for to worship at their Churches to be deceyued by sundry feigned forgeries and false teachings as for lucre sake it is accustomed to be done in most places This decréed your Pope and your Councell M. Stapl. against your blessed reliques Were not here your Pope and his whole Councell heretikes also you were best to say so For this saying proueth your Prelates Priests Pardoners to haue bene false teachers and deceyuers of the people for Lucre and the people hauing bene deceyued by them to haue committed Idolatrie and the Reliques that we were borne in hand were blessed things as ye call them to haue bene faigned forgeries and false teachings not in one place or in some places but in most places that is all ouer your Churche and that not once or twise by a scape but of custome which how long time it prescribeth search you This was the generall state of your vniuersall Church for vniuersall comprehendeth the most parte concerning your blessed reliques euen by the Popes owne definitiue sentence and all his councell which oft times you boast can not erre But though the Pope coÌ„fesse thus much as â—…e could not for shame denie so manifest a matter yet he knew what he did wel inough when he made this statute For what losses so euer other poore Priests and Pardoners should féele he made sure for him selfe to get thereby not so much by retayning the old reliques in estimation that then as stale and common began to decaie as to relieue the Churches hutch whereof he saith he is the coaferer by authorising newe blessed reliques But though he gayned much by this deuice yet much water goeth by the mill that the miller knoweth not of And many miriades of blessed reliques more more encreased and neuer fette the Popes blessing from Rome for their warrant so blessedly they multiplied but had this Popes decrie bene plainly ment or truly kept bothe old and new and all your blessed reliques had bene banished from all blessednesse and worship long agoe as nothing but lies and forgeries inuented to enrich your selues with the spoyle of the peoples Idolatrie I graunt ye haue some antiquitie to pretende for Reliques not onely of S. Hieromes time but somewhat before also that with greate reuerence conserued the bodies of the glorious Martyrs But trowe you they worshipped knéeled crept and offred to them and yet some might yea some did ouershoote themselues herein euen then But did the learned Fathers allow it Doth not euen S. Hierom of whome Alphonsus saithe Qui duriuâ—… 〈◊〉 pugnare solet that was wonte to fight more harde and bitterly say to Uigilantius Quis enim O insanum caput aliquando martyres adorauit For who O thou frantike head hath at any time worshipped the Martyres He telleth how they translated them honorably as noble martyres but they worshipped them not And where other began to attribute an opinion of vertue to their vestiments Chrysestome if the worke be his greatly blameth them Alij autem qui sanctiores c. Other there be saith he that would shew them selues to men to be more holy and tie and hang about them a parte of their hem or heares O wickednesse they would shew a greater holinesse in their garmeÌ„ts than in the body of christ He which is not healed feeding on his bodie would be saued by the holinesse of his garment In so much that he trusteth in the vestiment of man which despayreth in Gods mercie Yea what did Paule did not he giue his napkins that the sicke might be helped yes before those men had the knowlege of God and the reason was that by those mens health the power of God might be knowne But now it were madnesse For after we haue knowne the power of God whereto is it necessarie that we should know the power of man No saith he as I shewed before Neattendaâ—… cinerem c. Regarde not the asshes of the saincts bodies nor the Imbers of the Reliques of the flesh and all their boanes that in time are consumed Yea your owne feigned Epistle in the name of Clement saith Nothing is more wicked and vnthankefull than to receyue a benefite of God and to giue thankes to stockes and stones S. Augustine telleth of Hypocrites in his dayes that caried about with them Reliques for sale Alij membra ossa martyrum c. Other fell the members and bones of Martyrs if yet they be Martyrs other extoll their hems and gardes c. Thus there is some antiquitie to be pretended for Reliques and that they were worshipped also but not of the godly and learned Fathers but of wicked and supersticious hypocrites Against whome they cried out but what would they haue saide had they séene the playne Idolatrie to your forged Reliques Of the which euen the defenders of them haue cried out and coÌ„fessed their abhominations For besides your Pope your Councell of Coleyn euen in defending them saith Hiâ—… tamen c. Notwithstanding here which we can not denie the gouernours of the Churche did after a meruailous fashion sleepe out the matter And anon after Sed nostro saculo c. But in our age and that through the slouth of the parishe Priestes we can not denie it but that we erred And againe Expositae sunt passim c. Reliques are euery where set forth for gaine and those vncertayne Reliques and perhaps herevppon occasion
greatest reasons M. St. for your ceremonies Here if ye say for all this proportion betwéene your doings and theirs yet are not we so straightly bounde from the fathers traditions as they bicause the Iewes otherwise had ynowe commaunded them and verie fewe in the newe Testament are left to vs Christians Chriso stome telleth you that Christes Disciples ought to keepe the doctrine of God not of men For otherwise Christ blaming the Pharisers for kéeping the doctrine of men if he had suffered his Disciples to kéepe any doctrine of men they woulde haue replyed that wherein he reprehended them hée himselfe was culpable If nowe the Disciples bée bounde to this rule are not your Priestes also Yea are not all Christians bound thereto not to worship God with doctrines of men As for the doctrine of Christ to be euen as full yea and much fuller than was theirs for all it hath not your ceremonies Chrisostome sayth Omnia enim Euangelium continet c. For the Gospell conteyneth all things both present and to come the honor of God godlinesse faith yea al things are shutte vp togither in the worde of Preaching c. For euen as the cryer proclaymeth to all that be at the assemblie euen so sayeth hée doe wee publikely preache After this sorte that we adde nothing but preach onely those things whiche wee haue hearde for that is the vertue of the cryer to prosecute all things truely that he is trusted with not to put to nor alter nor take away anie thing Whiche is so haynous a faulte that from hence as Saint Ambrose sayeth the Deuill gat the first holde when our first mother Eue did but a little alter in telling the wordes of God to the serpent Whervpon we learne sayth he that we ought to ioyne nothing to the commaundement no not to make vs the more warie For if thou puttest too or drawest away any thing it appeareth to be a kinde of transgression of the commaundement And that the pure and simple forme of the commaundement is to be kepte vve muste followe the fashion of witnesse bearing Commonly a witnesse while he putteth too some thing of his owne de uising to the manner of the deedes doing he stayneth with a peece of a lie the whole credite of the witnesse For heere at the first shewe what offence hath it that the woman added Nor ye shall touche any whitte of it for God had not sayde ye shall not touche but ye shall not eate But for all that heereon came the beginning of the fall For the wordes that shee added eyther shee added them as superfluous or adding them of hir owne shee thought that the commandement of God was but halfe perfecte as you speake of Gods worde and the infancie of Christes Churche in the primitiue state therof while it was yet without your additions The treatise therfore of this present lecture teacheth vs that we ought not to withdraw any thing from the commaundements of God nor adde thereto For if Iohn gaue iudgement on this writing If any sayth he shal adde to these things God shall adde to him the plagues that are written in this booke and if any man shall minishe of the wordes of this booke of this prophesie God shall take away his parte out of the booke of life howe muche more muste no man withdrawe from Gods commaundements This sayth S. Ambrose to all your vnwritten verities and loades of ceremonies all beyonde and many agaynst the worde and commaundement of god Therefore I may safely for al doctrine say with S. Aug. if it be his senteÌ„ce VVhatsoeuer ye heere alleaged out of the scriptures let that sauour well vnto you whatsoeuer is besides the scripture flye it least ye wander in a cloude Lâ—…t vs not make saythe he religion of oure owne fantasies for what truth soeuer it be it is better than all that we can deuise after our will who soeuer be the deuyser howe wyse howe holye howe greate soeuer he were We muste despise him as S. Augustine saythe on this versicle Effusus est contemptus super principes c. VVhye were they contemned bicause they declared an other thing who are contemned those that are accursed For whosoeuer shall declare any other thing than that ye haue receyued let him be accursed c. Are they Princes are they learned are they great are they precious stones VVhat wilte thou call them more are they Angels and yet if it were an Angel from heauen that should declare ought vnto you besides that ye haue receyued let hym be accursed And are your Priests or Pope more priuileged héerein than are the heauenly Angels if he be a Prince as he pretendeth by his crownes if he be learned as he sayth his brest is the closet of all learning thoughe indéede many Popes haue béene as simple Clerkes as euen the simplest minister in all Englande whose lacke of learning so often ye rayle vpoÌ„ if he were neuer so great as he calleth him selfe Pontificem maximum the greatest Byshop were he a precious stone him selfe as in his Pontificalibâ—…s he is all to be dashte with precious stones Yea were he an angell that came from heauen as he is but a man that came from earth yet for all this if your Pope make ceremonies and establish them for necessary doctrine of religion besides the word of God then is euen he all you that so maynteyne them before God accursed and so to be counted as accursed howe faste soeuer wyth Booke Bell and Candle he curse other that forsake him and his accursed ceremonies And haue not we then good cause to refuse them séeme they ueuer so plausible But as S. Augustine sayth of mans doctrine The saying of man seemeth to haue reason for it as the Papistes alleage many goodly reasons for them tyll it be layde to the diuine knowledge but when the lye that is mans doctrine omnis homâ—… mendax euery man is alyer shall approche to the truthe it is deuoured and perisheth euen as towe layde to the fyre And all the opinions of falshoode which now are called Idols bycause they be feigned and forged shall be vtterly wasted away And this is their verye destruction that as Gamaliell sayde they be not of God Demaunde of them this question for their doctrines An ex Deo sint an ex hominibus whether they be of God or of men and ye shall pose them as Chryst posed the Phariseis For euen as Ise melteth at the rayes of the cleare sunne so these ceremonies waste away and léese their estimation whersoeuer the word of God beginneth to take place and are maynteyned onely where the worde of God is kepte in hucker mucker and the people in ignoraunce beléeuing these ceremonies to be of as muche yea of muche more force than the worde of god And therfore as Eckius Piggiâ—…s Câ—…ingius Peresâ—…us Canus Fisher Petruâ—… a Sâ—… Cocleuâ—… Catharinus Hosius Alphonsus
all in you that he confessed to be so great and grieuous a sinne in him Now and there were no other place in the scripture to proue it sinne but euen this were not this plaine ynough that the Apostle sayth NesctebaÌ„ concupiscentiam esse peccatiâ—… nisi lex dixisset non concupisces I had not knowne coÌ„cupiscence to be sinne but that the law said thou shalt not lust Wherin he nameth it not onely sinne for that ye count no sufficient argument but say it is so named for that it commes of sinne and disposeth and inclines to sinne therefore is called improperly by the name of sin but the Apostle addeth a strong reason to proue it sinne in very déed bicause by the flat commaundement of God it is forbidden therefore it is a transgâ—…ession of Gods commaundement and displeasing God for otherwise God would not by his law forbid it Which expresse law against concupiscence when S. Paule regarded better than it appeareth you dothe then coÌ„fessed it to be sin which before he knew not by ignorance of the law Although your ignorance be of wilfull malice that will neither know Gods law nor your owne transgression of it nor all these euident confessions of the Apostle obiect S. Aug. against the Messalians to vs and yet are you both agreeing with the Messalians and flat agaynst S. August your selues For what could Saint August write more plaine than this Sicut coecitas cordis c. EueÌ„ as the blindnesse of tâ—…e hart is both sinne wherewith we beleue not in God and the punishment of sinne wherwith a prowde heaâ—…t is punished with worthie correction the cause of sinne when ought is committed by the errour of a blinde heart so concupiscence of the flesh against the which the good spirite doth lust is both sin bicause there is in it a disobedience against the rule of the mind and the punishment of sinne bicause it is giuen for the deseruings of the disobeyer and the cause of sinne by the defection of the consenter or the contagion of him that is borne In which wordes as he plainely speaketh both of the state of the birth before baptisme and of the consent defection and deseruings after baptisme so he maketh concupiscence not to be sinne it selfe onely but also the punishment and the cause of sinne Neither is S. August alone herein for S. Hierom doth not onely call it sinne but least ye shoulde dally about the name he sayth Habitans in sua carne peccatum hoc est vitia corporis desideria voluptatis c. But if my outwarde man do that he would not and worke that whiche he hateth hee sheweth the commaundement to bee good and that he worketh not that which is euill but sinne inhabiting in his flesh that is the vices of the bodie and desires of pleasure the whiche for the posteritie and ofspring is euen grafted in mennes bodyes Thus maketh he concupiscence not sinne inhabiting onely but euen verye vice it selfe engrafted in vs speaking not onely on himselfe but euen on Saint Paule also And are you better â—…ordâ—… all these What procéedeth this vpon but plaine arrogancie ioyned with obstinacy to conceale your shame and flatter your selues in your sinfull burning lusts which rather than ye would with humilitie acknowledge and confesse ye spare not so to exalt your selues that ye deface the glorie of God so to vaunte your pâ—…ra naturalia your frée will and merits that ye quite take away euen the death of Iesus Christ and to establishe your owne righteousnesse ye disdaine to be subiect to the righteousnesse of God and making vs beleue we had no sin at all while we were infants newly regenerate to deceyue our selues and to haue no more truth in vs than is in you Go now Master Stapleton and boast that we be Messalians or rather clere your selues of their Heresies besides that ye be not onely Messalians but Missalians or Massalians which is a great deale worser Heresie Your next obiection is of Images And bicause say you ye shall not say I suppresse conceale or obscure the chiefe and most notable persons of your auncestrie how say ye to the Emperors Philippicus Leo CoÌ„stantinus coÌ„demned with their adherents by the 7. generall CouÌ„cell at Nice that villained by defacing breaking and burning the Images of all the holy Hallowes of Christ Christs too If your guiltie conscience M. Stap. do misgiue you that ye haue hitherto charged vs falsly and haue suppressed concealed and obscured our true auncestours and in stead therof haue obiected Heretikes it were some token of grace and repentance in you that ye say yet now at the length ye will not suppresse conceale or obscure the chiefe and notable persons of our auncestrie Where ye aske vs what we say to these thrée Emperors Philippicus Leo Constantinus that ye say villained Images whatsoeuer we say to them Master Stapelton some good fellowe perhaps will say this to you that if they bée suche most notable persons ye might haue spared such villainous language except it be naturall to you to vse villaynes Rhetoricke on chiefe Princes and most notable personages But I will not meddle with your well nurtured termes onely I desire you as ye pretend not â—…o suppresie conceale nor obscure indeede the chiefe and most notable persons of our auncestrie whereby ye meane the auncient Emperors If ye will not in very déed how chaunce ye name but these thrée for taking away of Images why suppresse ye the names of the Emperors Ualens Theodosius that made a plaine decrée agaynst all maner of Imagâ—…rie of all the holy Hallowes of Christ as ye call them Christes to and yet your seuenth generall Councell condemned theÌ„ not yea your selfe as after shal appéere do highly coÌ„mend them What ment ye to suppresse the name of Carolus Magnus commended likewise highly euen by your selfe and yet he abolished all Images also Why name ye Philippicus Leo Constantinus onely and tell not of all the other Emperors before these after these euen til the time of Theodorus Lascaris that yelded to your Pope herein at Lions Councell therfore the Gréekes depriued and expelled him for his labour Syth then so many chief and most notable persons of the auncient Emperors of which your self graunt some to be as godly as notable being before that CouÌ„cell were not condemned by it being as ye say our auÌ„cestors herein are altogither quite suppressed concealed obscured is not this very partiall and vnfaithfull dealing in reiecting our honourable pedegree M. St But I see you will neuer leaue your lying Nowe where ye say these thrée Emperors were condemned by the seuenth generall Councell at Nice True in déede they were so euen as you condemned all Godly Princes at your last Trident Councell that abolishe your Idolatrie What maner a Councell it was and what maner of reasons they haue in it for the
Pu and the Image of Christ embraced the boye and saide Pu pu pe noli flere post triduâ—…m mecum papabis Whine not and three daies hence thou shalt eat pappe with me Another time how the Image of Christ came down out his mothers armes playde with an abbots childe Another time when the arme of his Image of stone was broken how bloud gushed out and the stone Image of his Mother seing the bloud rent hir garmentes and ornamentes of stone about hir rente the Iuels about hir necke and made naked hir brest vnto the pappes for the reproch and iniurie that was done to hir babie Another time when Auinion was besieged they got hir Image vpon the gate putting their confidence in hir and when one standing behind hir was shot at Imago genu erexit c. The Image lift vp hir knee and receyued the stroke of the arrow c. and it sticketh yet in hir thigh Ye tell vs how on a time Quidam pictor Diabolum cum cornibus c. A certaine painter painted the diuel with hornes and other members so vgglie as he could but the Image of the Virgin Marie he painted so faire as he could whereat the Diuell being angrie brake the scaffold while he was painting hir Image Mox Imago pussimae virginis pictori manuuÌ„ porrexit eum ne caderet firmiter retinuit sicque eum à daemone custodiuit VVith that the Image of the most godly Virgin caught the painter by the hande and helde him fast from falling and so it saued him from the Diuell Ye tell vs of a Churche set on fyre by lightning but when it came néere to the Image Quasi expauescens omnino intactam reliquit c. The fyre as afrayde of it lefte it vntouched yea a bunche of Pecocks fethers leaning to the Image of wood escaped vnburnt also And this miracle sayth he was done to shewe quòd sibi seruâ—…entes ab igne aeterno liberare faciliter possit That she can easily deliuer from hell fyre those that serue hir Howebeit at Wilsdean hir picture escaped not the fyre so scotte free but that the one halfe was burned euen with the negligeÌ„ce of the candles that were set about hir But to salue thys blemishe the remnaunt of the blocke wrought as greate miracles as any of the other For when the Priest had sent to London the residue of the Image that was saued from the fire to be peeced out by the Caruer after he coulde not make the olde and the newe to frame well togither he cast the olde picture behinde the stall and made another lyke it The Priest when he came to sée the picture where is my wife quothe he to whome the Paynter shewed the picture that he had newe made lyke the other No quothe the Priest thou lyest this is an other this is not my wife That it is quoth the Paynter No no husbande quoth the olde Image that is not I I am héere hidden and caste behinde the stall This was a famous miracle and his wife deserued to be caried home agayne with solemne processioÌ„ It were infinite to tell the tales of your Roodes that spake that nodded that sweatte that bledde that embraced and kissed those that came to them with a number of such like forgeries to make the people beléeue not onely the Saincts but euen the very pictures of them had a force and influence of grace and helpe in them And so the Roode of grace our Lady of grace our Lady of pitie c. had their names I omitte your other Saincts pictures yea some of those whome ye worshipped that God knowes were séely Sainctes and your selues doubte whether euer they were honest men and women or no. Yea of those that were neither men nor women I meane not Angels whom ye honored in pictures of winged and fethered men but of S. Sunday of S. Sauiour of S. Crosses c. Neither God nor Angell nor man nor woman of whome ye might say as the Priest sayde when he byd his beades on Sunday Good friends ye shall haue this wéeke the feast of S. Epiphanie but whether it be hee Sainct or shée sainct I can not tell Of these Saincts you had pictures you had Churches ye had Pilgrimages ye had offringes and yet were there no suche persons at all but as the heathen had the pictures of Iustice other vertues worshipping them also as Lactantius vpbraydeth to them Quid nobis inaâ—…em Iustitiam depingiâ—… VVhy paynte ye out vnto vs bare Iustice can ye excuse this also of manyfest Idolatrie Thinke you that your seconde Nicen councell woulde not lykewyse haue condemned you euen for very shame as tootoo grosse Idolaters What sayth Alfonsus your owne champion writing of purpose in the defence of Images in handling the fact of king Ezechias for destroying the Brasen Serpent â—…f the Christian people sayth he were nowe as prone to Idolatrie as the people of Israell were then nor coulde be called otherwise from theyr errour Then if Images were broken in peeces I would beleeue that they ought wo thily to be broken This is the iudgement of Alfonsus vpon all your Alhallowes Images and Christes too But heereto adioyning this false assumption But the Christian people are not nowe so prone to Idolatrie as were the Iewes he concludeth there is no suche vrgent cause why Images oughte to be broken as there was then But if he had acknowledged the manyfest truth and had looked no further than in his owne countrey of S. Iames picture of Compostella that as they say can moue and stirre his head by frowning or looking cheerefully and other proper knackes and had he séene the great Idolatrie committed therto and how the people flocked troÌ„ al parts thither he should then haue seene as great if not a great deale greater idolatrie among those that professe the name of christianitie than euer was to the Brasen Serpent among the Iewes and that as he would excuse the Popishe idolatrie it was not one or two deceyued by a certayne simplicitie but that it was more than an hundreth yea than an huÌ„dreth thousand that were so deceyued by a certayne fraude of your priestes that no preaching or teaching coulde serue to remoue their Idolatrie so long as ye let the Images stande Which not onely ye did but teached and preached suche fables as more encreased your gaynes and the simple peoples Idolatrie And therfore euen by AlphoÌ„sus reason your Alhallowes Images are worthy to be defaced broken in fitters by Christian Princes as by Ezechias the Brasen Serpent was Nowe to the further improofe of Alphonsus his false assumption that Christians are not so prone to Idolatrie as the Iewes I wil not presse ye with Erasmus testimonies nor yet with Sir Thomas More but euen as I did before with your owne councell of Colleyns complaynts of the wickednesse vsed about your Images Verum cum multus
same booke on these verses Lanceâ—… Crux claus tua pertuls corde 〈◊〉 c is this Quicunque arma Domini c. VVho soeuer shall looke deuoutly vpon the weapons of our Lord Iesus Christ and shall deuoutly say this prayer he shall haue of his sinnes beyng truly confessed and repenting of them sixe thousand seuen hundred and fiue yeeres of pardons of S. Peter the Apostle graunted him and graunted of 30. Popes after him How agreeth this with the former M. Stapleton or did S. Peter giue this pardon twisâ—… and augment the summe bicause of the excellencie of those verses But these are trifles to the thirde that followeth Crux coronae spinae flagellis clauis lanciae marcellae spongae laqueae columpilae vesti purpuriae aâ—…undinae honorem impendamus This is good Latine I warrant ye and as good as the matter euery whit and so good that saith the Rubrike ouer it VVho soeuer say this Orison here following shall haue great grace of almighty God and sixe thousand thousande and threescore and ten yeeres of very pardon This was lustely multiplied Sitte downe Master Stapleton sith ye pretende to be so perfect an Arithmetrician and cast your accountes and ye shall sée a fayre muster of pardons to comforte your sprites with all Feare not man the Diuell so long as these last and many thousandes more there are besides but these are easily gotten euen for worshipping the Iewes Ropes Halters Hammers Râ—…iues Swordes their Fistes yea their spettle and all But if ye be ashamed and thinke scorne to worship these thinges as in déede ye may well be ashamed of them yet I haue suche holy Reliques for you to worship that ye can hardely finde any higher But I tell ye you must take vp your hand and blisse you at the sight of them and so they worke meruailes as your holy bookes recorde And that not for the Images of all Hallowes but of Christes Image or rather of him selfe that ye should know euen the iuste length of him as they pretende Among the good prayers aforesaide is this Rubrike Qui cupit cognoscere longitudinem c. He that desireth to know the length of Christ being God let him take this line here drawne forth twoo and thirtie times measured which line was brought out of the Citie of Constantinople in a certaine Grosse of Golde VVhiche line who soeuer in the day doth deuoutly looke vppon and say the Antiphona with a Collect and shall signe him thrise with the signe of the holy Crosse he shall not that daye die any suddayne death nor be vexed with Diuell nor with any tempest nor any euill nor any Creature shall hurte him And this line was brought by an Angell to King Charles the great This is a fayre grace M. Stapl. for looking vppon and worshipping a line of the length of Christ. But I haue another length and Rubrike that hath more Iolie promises to stirre vs vp to worship it Which sayeth This Crosse fiftene times measured is the length of our Lorde Iesu Christe and that day ye looke thereon blesse ye therewith There shall no wicked spirite haue power to hurt you nor thunder ne lightning sleeping ne waking shall not hurt you nor winde nor blasting on lande nor on water shall not hurt you nor in battayle ye shall not be ouercome with your enimies bodely ne ghostly nor die no shamefull death nor suddayne death nor of the pestilence nor in water be drowned nor in fire be brente and if yee be in deadly sinne ye shall not die therein and you shall increase in worldly goodes nor ye shall not die of woundes nor of stroake nor without confession nor ye shal not be combred with no fiendes and if a woman haue this Crosse and lay it on hir woÌ„be when she traueleth with childe she shall soone be deliuered and the childe shall haue Christendome and the mother purification of holy Church S. Ciriake and S. Iulite desired this gifte of almightie God and he graunted them as it is registred in Rome at S. Iohn Lateranence Here are many moe fayre graces if all were true But some of them your Papistes them selues haue â—…ounde starke lies And some of them as that he shall not be combred with no fiende c. I thinke may well be true as you will graunt I dare say resoluing them by your Equipollences on which ye stande so much in your fourth booke As for the assurance of the truth of these lengthes that I remit to you M. St. to reconcile them togither how the one came froÌ„ Constantinople the other froÌ„ Rome how the one was grauÌ„ted of God to S. Ciriake and S. Iulite the other brought by an Angell to king Charles the great and yet as appeareth by the prayer it came first to S. Ciriake and S. Iulite too With other such circumstances as arise in the conference of them Onely I note the lengths them selues and I pray you M. St. if ye haue as good skill in Geometrie as in Arithmetike to measure these two lengths the one xxxij the other xv times as they require and see how properly they will agree I thinke ye shall finde them differing little lacking the length of both Crosses ioyned togither So that the one light on which it shall must needes be a very lie and haue no vertue in it at all but those that worship it be Idolaters worshipping a false thing If ye replie an inche breakes no square although it breake no square yet it breakes leÌ„gth M. St. neither ought ye to misse one inche in this matter wherein ye pretende is such vertues and so exactly take vpon ye to describe euen the iumpe length and say it came from God and his Angell brought it knew not the Angell the iumpe length or would he not giue it truly and would haue it so precisely worshipped surely then he was no good Angell But the difference is more thaÌ„ an inch M. St. or 6. or 7. inches either And would ye haue Christ cut shorter by the head to make your leÌ„gths euen were it not better that a great many such liers as you hopâ—…â—…edlesse before which of these two shall we beléeue M. Stapleton or is it not best by your counsell to let them both goe in the â—…irrops name and all their forged vertues with them than for gréedinesse of their gaye promises endanger to lose bodie and soule by worshipping a lie and committing foule Idolatrie Well let them goe for me if ye he agreed thereto M. Stapâ—… But yet ye haue one excuse as ye thinke to mitigate the matter that how soeuer they missed in the Figure eyther of the Crosse or the Crucifixe of the which some was long some was shorte this hindred not the peoples deuoute meditation thereon Although M. Stapleton this nothing excuse the former manifest lie where ye misse of the leÌ„gth that so iustly ye pretende to set out and yet ascribe the vertue to
Deuill afrayde of them the Diuell he is as soone M. Stapl. No no he delighteth in Idolatrie Excuse this Idolatrie that I haue shewed was committed to them and then tell vs he feareth them Which except ye caÌ„ do euen as he ruled the HeatheÌ„ Idols so that he ruled yours his very practises declared He feareth not deceipt iuggling knackes craftie coÌ„ueighaÌ„ces forgeries feigned miracles but rather is the ruler of them But many of your Images yea the most famous Images that could sweat frowne smile nod moue goe speake c. were wrought by such craftie legerdemaines as the vices and deuices of them haue since bene openly séene at the pulling downe of theÌ„ Which argueth that the Diuell feared them not but ruled them as he did the Heathens Idols Ninthly The Diuels mainteyned their Idols the same couet to throw downe our Images I answere this is in effect all one with the other For Quem â—…etuuni oderunt queÌ„ oderunt perisse expetunt VVhom they feare they hate whome they hate they wishe to perish But as is shewed he feared them not but delighted in theÌ„ Ergo he hated them not nor coneted to throw them downe but mainteyneth them with all his might and mayne with all his crafte and illusions and maketh such sturre against the worde of God and the setters forth thereof for them that neither the Priests of Baal made the like against the Prophets nor Alexander the Coppersmith against Paule and other Heathen Idolaters against the Christian martyrs as your Pope and you his Priests do against the Gaspel and the Protestants to mainteyne the worship of your Images And to say the truth ye haue greater losse by the decay of the worship of them than euer the Coppersmith which had gaines for making the Images of Diana had losse by S. Paule for speaking against them Infinite was the gaines that came toombling in by your Images And all this fat is in the fire by throwing them downe If then Images mainteyned such filthie lucre their maintenance must néedes be of the Diuell And God by his worde is the very ouerthrowe of them as he was before of the Heathen Idols Tenthly to be shorte their Idols were dedicated by Infidels to an Heathenish purpose our Images be dedicated to a verteouse intent Therefore our Images being so farre different from the heathenish Idols are iniuriously called Idols I answere First this common argument of good or verteouse intent is not sufficient for to make a difference herein Especially the Heathen euen in worshipping their Idols hauing likewise as good an intent and verteouse as téemed vnto them as your good verteouse intent séemeth vnto you They thought they did well and so do you this verteouse intent as it serueth you both so it serueth all Idolaters But you ought to make a distinctioÌ„ of good in déede good in apparance els ye are more vnskilfull than the Heathen that made a difference betwéene Reuera bonum that quod videtur bonum That that is good in deede and that that seemeth good This distinction herein ought you to haue made not stande on the intent which was in theÌ„ as good as yours as they thought for they purposed not to do ill but good though they did ill and not good And why bicause they did not order their purpose by Gods purpose yea by Gods commaundement not onely in the worship of Images which he statly forbiddeth but euen in the worship of God himselfe We must not doe that which séemeth good in our owne eyes but that which God hath commaunded wée shoulde do and in no poynt swarue therefrom If we doe swarue the heathens good intent will no more beare vs out than it did the heathen no more than it did Saule or Uza no more than it shal do those that Christ saith shall kil the Prophetes of God and thinke they do God good seruice All these are a like in good intent and vertuons purpose but not in good matter nor vertuous cause Wherein you fayling togither with them your intent maketh so little difference of your Images froÌ„ their Idols that it maketh them more alike And therefore the conclusion for any of these tenne poynts alleaged may well be inferred your Images are not iniuriously called Idols Thus much to answere one of your muttring Libels that ye scatter among the simple people whining that we slaunder you with the terme of Idols for Images By this little let them iudge whether we slaunder you or no for Idolaters and whether they be Idols or no and howe faint and faigned shiftes ye make to finde out difference betwene their Images and yours Wherein also ye would bleare the simple for who denieth but that there is a difference of the one from the other but not such as may make eyther the one or the other no Idoll If they were no such Idols they were as yll if not worse but were they not so yll yet yée proue not them no Idols for all this Well you haue spoken of the difference and nowe might I if I had not béene ouerlong already requite your tenne differences more than with twice tenne likenesses of your Images and theirs to proue them Idols both But you will say all this is an outroad neither properly your matter Be it so for once if you will although in déede it be not but is directly to your quarrell of Images Yet to draw nearer to your charge of Iulianus the Apostata for the Crosse. If ye affirme that in Iulianus time the Christians worshipped the Crosse then as he slaundered those Christians so doe you slaunder them Helene that ye say founde out the Crosse worshipped it not Epiphanius that saw the picture of Christ in a place proue to be worshipped rent it in péeces Cyrillus that aunswereth this slaunder of Iulianus obiecting to them that they worshipped the Crosse doth he graunt that they worshipped it He sayth no suche thing he onely mencioneth how they had it as a memoriall of Christs death and to moue them to thinke of mortifying themselues And where had they it in their Churches had they Roodlofts to set it in set they it on an aultar had it any sensing to it créeping knéeling capping crouching praying offering to it if there had bene any such matters we should by some of your side haue heard of it ere nowe No M. St. there was no such Idolatrie then as your Romish Church hath nowe farre passing the Idolatrie euen of the Emperor Iulianus He was an open enimie to Christ for his sake to his Crosse to all that was his but you are priuie enimies and hypocrites that vnder the pretence of friendship and honour as it were with Herodes pretensed worship Iudas kisse salute Christ his Crosse rob him of the price that he paid vpon the Crosse spoyle him of his glorie bereue him of his people Thus do you that
their charge than ye haue or possibly can do to M. Feckenham or any other Catholike whereof I dare make any indifferent reader Iudge True indéede M. Stapl. without supposall ye hâ—…ue an head as it were a counting house full of pregnant matter such as these your viâ—… and crakes with other your common places of sclaunderouse raylingâ—…are wherein ye excell all your comâ—… 〈◊〉 wherein for my parte I will not contende with you but onely sette it 〈◊〉 that as ye say euery indifferent reader whom you dare make your Iudge may beholde Iudge and coâ—…d your pregnancie therein And if ye haue any pregnant matter tâ—… charge vs as ye vaunt it shall suffiâ—… me aftâ—…r my hâ—…y manner not contending who hath more pregnant matter wherein ye graunt ye may be charged by vs in some pregnant matter to discharge our selues of the charge if we can and againe if we can also to returne the charge on your neckes or els let it stande for me indifferent to whome the readers indifferent iudgement shall awarde it whether you haue more pregnant matter to charge vs or we haue more and more true matters to recharge you and discharge our selues in this heresie of the Donatistes They were all ye say called first Donatistes but as they firstâ—… fell from the Church Catholike so fell they afterwarde from their own Church and maister into an horrible diuision of the Maximianists Circumcellions Rogatists Circenses others A liuely paterne of the sectes sprong from your Apostle Luther as in their pedegree in the Apologie of Staphilus euery man may see Euery man may see M. St. that he is a good cocksâ—…re witnesse of your side and therefore it is pregnantly done of you to sende vs to him but sauing your reuerence M. Stapleton I haue heard say ere this that two false harlots neede no broker Your argument is vicious diuerse waies but chiefly it standeth of your common fallacion A non causa vt causa so doth the most of this your pregnant matter For els by the like argument yè might make another liuely paterne from Christes own wordes Necesse est vt Scandala veniant It is necessarie that offences come And Christ him selfe as Simeon saide of him is Positus multis in ruinaâ—… Placed to many to their ruine And so he calleth him selfe a stombling stone and his ghospell as saith S. Paule is to the Iewes an offence and follie to the Gentiles What a number of Heresies sprang vp euen in the Apostles time through false Apostles of whom saith S. Ihon They went out from vs but of vs they were not Doth not S. Augustine describing the Church of Christ confesse Hâ—…reses 〈◊〉 de illa exiâ—…runt tanquam sarmenta inutilia de vitè precisa ipsa autem manet in radice sua All Heresies went out of the Church as vnprofitable boughs cut of from the vine but it selfe remayneth still in the roote thereof Ye should discerne betwene the sower of the wheate and the sower of the darnell M. St. and then your argument were aunswered Although it be also a sclanderous lie to Father those sectes on the gospell or from Luther that are rather deriued from Popish errours with which they more agrée as sprong out of suche superstitions and ignorance as you had noseled them withall But if ye will fetch in this point an argument from the 〈◊〉 how forgatte you the plentifull sectes of your false Friers all sprange first from Francis and Dominike but what swarmes full not of the Friers onely who as Chaâ—…er telleth came driuinge like bées out of Sathanas tayle but of the diuerse sectes of them that haue sprougâ—… out since the one no more like the other then an Apple is like an Oyster and all agreing togither like cattâ—… in a â—…tter Ye might haue tolde vs of Peter Lombarde of Thomas of Scotus c. And of the sectes sprong out of their loynes deuided so bitterly among them selues with great 〈◊〉 and â—…artakinges and that in no small pointeâ—… of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ye might haue made a fitter comparisâ—…n to the 〈◊〉 Suche pregnant 〈◊〉 aâ—… your first charge is such is your second charge The Donatistes say you would sometime crake bragge of their multitude and bring it as an argument that the truth was on their side as doth your Apologie â–ª which being restrained by the Emperours lawes and dayly diminishing â–ª theÌ„ they cried the truth resteth with the few elected and chosen persons then cried they O little flocke feare not as ye did when ye were as yet but in corners rotten barnes and luskie lanes If these be good arguments M. Stapl â–ª to prâ—…ue a Donatist to crake and bragge of multitude to bring it as an argument that the truth is on their side then are all Papistes Donatistes and we 〈◊〉 For it is your crake almost your onely vauÌ„t of 〈◊〉 of greatest multitudes of people asking vs in coÌ„tempt where our Church was when for the most parte ye saide all is â—…urs as the Diuell saide when he looked in at the Câ—… 〈◊〉 as telleth the olde by worde And if nowe it hath 〈◊〉 Goâ—… by the preaching of his â—…lessed â–ª wordâ—… 〈◊〉 he proâ—…ed after tâ—… generall defection so to detect the man of sinne and to chaine vp SathaÌ„ that he should not so much dectine the world but that we may 〈◊〉 and eâ—…race the glad and true tidinges of our saluation we do not crake nor bragge thereof Reioyse in the Lord we may praysing God that he hath reuealed these things to the simple and to lifte vp our heads Christ biddeth vs when the haruest waxeth ripe and great praying him to sende more workemen into his haruest to reape the sheaneâ—… with ioy the seede whereof we sowed before in teares This we may do be I trust no Donatists As for craking of multitudes it is proper to your Churche M. St. we make no argument to or fro thereon And if on the other parte in the time of persecution wheÌ„ iniquitie had the vpper hand we comforted our selues with this consolation of Christ Feare not O little flocke and the truth resteth with the feâ—…e eleâ—…ed and chosen persons If ye scoffe at these wordes and heâ—…vpon inferre vs to be Donatistes bicause they saide the same by this argument ye wil â—…oue the author of them Iesus Christ him self to be a Donatist to The wordes are godly true who soeuer vse theÌ„ Only ye should haue proued that we applied them falsely as the Donatistes did or elsye proue nothing Ye say we criâ—…d thus when we were as yet but in corners rotten barnes lusky lanes Were you neuer in corners rotten barnes luskie lanes M. Stapl I will not say for what purposes but God forgiue ye and I do but I thinke ye werenot there for Religion And though it seemeth by these your lusty crakes where ye are
it may rather confounde for they confounde their offices turning Bishops not as it were into lay men but into lay men in deede What the Bishops wordes do meane is most playne to a man of meane witte that list not to Iangle about nothing neither the wordes importe any such meaning nor this is any thing in question the ministeriall office but the supreme gouernment which are two farre different things But since that to no purpose ye chalenge the B. for curtalling Eusebius words let vs behold how you do set them downe For thus say you he saith to the Bishops Vos quidem eorum quae intus sunt in Ecclesia agenda ego vero eorum qua extra sunt Episcopus à Deo sum constitutuâ—… You are Bishops saith he of those thinges that are to be done within the Church I am Bishop of outwarde thinges which answere of his may satisfie any reasonable man for all that ye bring in here of Constantine or all that ye shall afterwarde bring in which declareth him no supreme Iudge or chiefe determiner of causes Ecclesiasticall but rather the contrarie and that he was the ouerseer in ciuill matters And the most that may be enferred hereof is that he had the procuration and execution of Churche matters which I am assured all Catholikes will graunt Ye would faine I sée M. Stapl. reuoke your graunt and it could be cleanly conueyde or so to limite it that it might not appéere ye haue granted that that all your fellowes denie But this reuocation is to late Neuerthelesse fuli pretely ye compasse the matter to defeate all these most plaine not wordes but doings of Constantine by shoouing at this name B. shop in the Emperour which in any case ye caÌ„ not abide And therefore as who though B. went aboute to confounde the offices of a Bishop and of a Prince and thereto had concealed Eusebius words ye solemnly take on yâ—…n to set them out both in Latine and in English. But tell me by that false faith of yours M. Stapleton why ye haue not translated the wordes aright in English that ye haue set downe in Latine did ye sée in déede they made nothing for you but rather much against you is the English of intus in Ecclesia within the Church And the English of eorum quae extra Outward ciuill things or matters or Ego vero c. Episcopus à ' Deo sum constitutâ—… I am a Bishop what is manifest corruption of plaine wordes and euident sense if this be not this is past cutting of the tayle M. St. or slitting his nose and paring his eares to dresse it like a perfect curtall but euen to cutte both buttockes and heade away and make it a carrion karkasse this translating is trans I ordanem in déede But the wordes of Constantine the sense are plaine You saith he speaking to the spirituall pastours are Bishops of those thinges that in the Churche are to be done within or inwardly But I am appointed of God a Bishop of those things that are forthout or outwardly As who should say your Bishoply office in Gods Churche is in the ministeris of those things that worke inwardly that perce the heart enter into the soule cleaue the thoughtes in sunder and properly belong to the inwarde man the liuely worde of god My Bishoply office in Gods Churche is distinguished from this and is in things without that is in the outwarde setting forth and publique direction of Gods worde to be duly taught by you Thus both their offices were in Gods Church the matter and groundworke of both their Bishoprikes was Gods true religion But the doing of the one was pertayning to the inwarde man the doing of the other to the outwarde man. And this is the very distinctioÌ„ that Constantine maketh which being not falsely translated as you do and so misunderstoode may satisfie as ye say any reasonable man But your vnderstanding is very vnreasonable to vnderstand by inward things things ecclesiasticall and by outward things only ciuill things in déede they be out and quite out of the consideration of the Churche But wherefore then called he him selfe a Bishop also with them yea an vniuersall Bishop as Eusebius termeth him but to declare that his ouersighte was in the same matter that was theirs the matter was Gods truth and Religion in bothe the manner was outwarde or inwarde as eithers Bishoprike required Otherwise if he had meant onely of ciuill matters as you expounde he had bene no more a Bishop thereby than the very Soldane or great Turke or any other Heathen Prince that ouersee their ciuill matters very circumspectly And so as ye did in your fourth Chapter ye make Constantine for all these notable things in him that your selfe before haue graunted no better than an infidell Prince in this behalfe For by outward ye say is meant ciuill matters But the ciuill gouernement ye say also reacheth no furder than the peoples quietnesse wealth abundance and prosperouse maintenance that these thinges are common as well to the heathen as to the Christian gouernment Thinke ye M. Stapleton these Fathers meant no furder gouernment nor in other matters than these when they called Constantine an vniuersall Bishop and that Constantine measured his office no furder when he called him selfe by the name of a Bishop â–ª for shame M. Stapleton deface not to Christian a Prince after so Turkish a manner nor thereto so manifestly falsifie your authour nor abuse your reader with such a shamelesse impudence Well say you And the moste that may be inferred thereof is that he had the procuration and execution of Churche matters which I am assured all Catholikes will graunt May we be assured M. Stapleton on your worde that all your popish Catholikes will graunt euen thus much For I verily feare they will graunt it no furder than it pleaseth them And where ye are so readie to assure vs of others graunts what assurance haue we had alreadie of all your owne liberall graunts when ye were disposed to wrangle as now againe ye do for how agreeth this euen with your former graunt that Princes might make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion that Princes might take some regiment vppon them in Ecclesiasticall causes yea might do as much as all these ensamples specifie and that now ye make the most to be but the procuration and execution of Church matters Although what ye meane by these wordes ye tell not would ye haue them onely the Churches that is as you meane by the Churche onely the Priests proctours and executioners now truly ye limite them a full faire office But thinke ye the name of B. and vniuersall B. did importe nothing els was that the most that may be inferred thereof and yet that is more than onely to be their executioner as ye said before to be as ye adde here to it their proctour also Yea it is
of God you translate it neither appoint any worshipping of God. As though they might not appoint that true worship of God that God hath appointed him selfe to be worshipped by Where Melancthon speaketh only of appointing other new deuised worships such as the Popish worships are Likewise speaking of the functions ye clappe in of your owne these wordes of bothe Magistrates calling the ministers magistrates whiche wordes Melancthon hath not And thus ye loue alâ—…e to tell your fale falsly And as you thus deale with Melancthon so froÌ„ him ye runne to M. Nowell and say Yea M. Nowell him selfe with a great stomacke biddeth vs shew where they denie that godly and learned Priestes might iudge according to the sinceritie of doctrine As though wheÌ„ the Prince and his successours are made supreme gouernours without any limitacion it fall not often out that the Bishop be he neuer so learned or godly shall not once be admitted to iudge of true doctrine except the doctrine please the Prince Ye will neuer leaue your falsehood M. Stap. wâ—… sayth that Princes made supreme gouernours without any limitation Who saith the Bishop be he neuer so godly or learned shall not once be admitted to iudge of true doctrine except the doctrine please the Prince Iâ—… there any that saith so or doth so except your Popâ—…e He in déed chalengeth a supreme gouernaunce without limits in as large and â—…ple 〈◊〉 as belongeth vnto christ He will suffer no doctrine but that which pleaseth him and he will be the onely chiefe Iudge thereof This is not the gouernance that we ascribe to Princes but such as is limitted by Gods worde such as stretcheth not further thaâ—… the 〈◊〉 of their dominions suche as suffreth godly and learned Priestes according to Gods worde to iudge of the synceritie of doctrine for this you confesse that master Nowell sayth and therefore ye confesse your selfe to be a 〈◊〉 lyer and to speake contrariâ—… when ye bring in thâ—… the Protestants to acknowledge a limitation and â—…t 〈◊〉 say we make a gouernement without any lymitation Neither is 〈◊〉 any contradiction in master Nowels saying to be anie more gathered than of Melancthonâ—… wordes Princes are supreme gouernours Ergo Prelates may not iudge of true doctrine Which is as wiâ—…e a sequele as the other agaynst Melancthon Ye might wel conclude it against your Pope that chalengeth such as absolute 〈◊〉 that all the iudgement of doctrine shoulde 〈◊〉 to him to iudge according as he please botâ—… quite besides and quite contrarie to Gods worde As though say you there had not bene a statute made declaring and enacting the Queenes maiestie yea hir highnesse successours without exception or limitation of godly and vngâ—…dly and yet I trowe no Bishops to be the supreme gouernour in all things and causes as well spirituall as temporall As though M. St. this were a good argument The statute declareth hir highnesse supreme gouernment â–ª without limiting it vnder the Bishops gouernment Ergo the Bishops can not iudge of true doctrine and the Princes gouernment is without all limitation As though their were no difference betwéene supreme gouernment and euery other gouernment or betwéene gouernment and iudgement And as though the statute ex 〈…〉 not it selfe what kinde of supreme gouernment is yâ—â—lded in all things and causes Ecclesiasticall nothing debarring the Bishops and ministers of their iudgement and ministerie but rather ouerséeing them to giue their iudgement and administration rightly As though you master Horne say you had not written that in both tables the Prince hath authoritie to erect â–ª and correct to farther and restraine to allow and punish the vertue and vices thereto apperteyning As though your selfe M. Stapl. had not written also and graunted the same euen right now and that not for your selfe onely but for all your followes besides to agree with Melancthon and Caluin therein Or as though say you the gouernour in all causes is not also a iudge in all causes â–ª Or as though M. St. his gouernment or iudgment were any preiudice to the gouernment or iudgement that belongeth to the Pastours office Or as though say you it were not commonly so taken and vnderstanded of a thousand in England which haue taken the othe to their great domnaâ—…ion but if they repent Or as though not rather on the contrarie it were not your so wilfull and malitious mistaking of it with a peuish obstinacie to withstande the manifest truth that refuse the othe of your dutifull obedience to your great damnation in deede but if yee repent betymes And thus still aunswering your As though with another as though ye can finde no contradiction nor absurditie neyther in Melancthon Caluin Master Nowell nor the Bishops sayings herein As though â–ª your selfe iâ—… the meane time were clere aboorde and not in euery one of your quarels either mâ—…st fonde and absurde or quite contrarie to your owne sayings and graunts made so late before The conclusion of this your second part is this You therefore master Horne â–ª which talke so confusely and generally of the Princes authoritie in both tables do yet say nothing nor proue nothing this generall and absolute authoritie in all things and causes as lustily without exception the othe expresseth and therefore ye bring indeed nothing to proue your principall purpose to the which all your proues shoulde be directed For generall and confuse talke of the princes authoritie you belie the Bishop master Stap. he made so plaine and flatte a limitation that you coulde not abide it â–ª it is your Pope that chalengeth such a general and absolute authoritie and your selfe that talke of the Princes authoritie confusely to deface Princes as confounding and intermedling â–ª in the office and authoritie pâ—…rteyning to the clergie whiche the othe requireth not further than such supreme authoritie as ouerseâ—…th careth prouideth for directeth and gouerneth all matter persons Ecclesiasticall and temporal so well in matters of the first table as in the seconde that is to say so well in all spirituall or ecclesiasticall matters as temporall Quod ad externam disciplinam Quod externoâ—… mores attinet So farre as perteynes to externall discipline and belongs to externall behauiour And this is not onely the issue in question but also as is proued compreheÌ„deth the othe and principall purpose whervpon ye call so fast to haue all the proues directed therto as the Bishop here hath done and your selfe hath graunted the same Your third part is a quarelling at the sentence of s. Paule cited by the B. Tim. 2. that kings and rulers are ordeyned of God for these two purposes that their people mighte liue a peaceable lyfe throughe their gouernment both in godlinesse and in honestie comprehending in these two wordes whatsoeuer is commaunded in the first or second table Here as ye sée hath the Bishop cited once againe another sentence oute of the new testament how fitly to the matter how
Apologie All whiche though it be a plaine digression from the Bishoppes aunswere and the issue in question beeing aboute Images and Idolatrie yet such is his importunitie we muste followe master Stapleton not whether the cause requireth but whether hys ydle brayne pleaseth to runne at randon Otherwise the principall parte of this Counterblast beeing reiected to hys common place of other impertineÌ„t bibblebables he would crie oute that hée were not aunswered in suche a weightie matter And yet when all is done as it is nothing to the present purpose so is it to no effect in any other matter at all For all his quarrell consisteth in these two poyntes The one that the Homelie wrongfully named Theodorus Lascaris for Michaell Paleologus The other for a decree of Ualence and 〈◊〉 agaynst Images For the former what Authours the Authour of that Homilie followed I knowe not howe be it he nameth not Theodorus Lascaris as you say master Stapleton but onely Theodorus neyther this missing of the Emperours name to him that woulde haue regarded the matter conteyned in the Homelie mighte bee thought worthie so great an outcrye excepte it were to you master Stapleton that still vse to stumble at a sirawe and leape ouer a blocke lyke to the Phareseys that Excolantes culicem Camelum glutiebant VVere stiffled with a gâ—…atte and yet swallowed a Camell Neyther was this so great an ouersight sythe Theodorus and Michaell were both of one tyme The one expelled the other and both still reteyned the name of Emperour For as Uolaterane sayeth Michaeligitur Paleologus c. Michaell Paleologus therefore at the same tyme inuaded the Empyre whiche two moste noble houses of Constantinople that is to saye the house of the Lascarie and the house of the Paleologie the one decayed the other lyfte vppe hir heade Theodorus Lascaris being thus expelled from the Citie of Constantinople yet raigned he still at Adrianople as the Emperour of Gréece And it is not vnlikely the occasion of his exile to haue bene about Images so well as other matters Syth the Gréeke and Latine Church haue stryued aboute the controuersie of Images nothing more and none so hotte For which matter chiefely the Pope rebelled from his alleageance and raysed all the diuision of the Empire in the Church of Christ that hath bene the chiefe decay and ruine thereof which onely sprang of the question of Images And yet sayth master Stapleton giuing vs no other warrantiss thereof than this his bare worde for Images VVhich had customably continued in the Greeke Church many hundreth yeares before and so reuerently afterwardes continued euen till Constantinople was taken by the great Turke and yet this good Antiquarie and Chronographer will needes haue the Grâ—…cians aboue seuen hundreth yeares togyther to haue beene Iconomachees that is Image breakers Are ye not ashamed master Stapleton to speake suche vntruthes euen where your selfe chalenge other of lyes For the authour of the Homelies noteth not here nor herevpon the dealing against Images all that space nor nameth any Iconomachees nor medleth any thing there with those 700. yeares that customably continued till Constantinople was taken by the Turke But onely of those yeares that customably continued from the primitiue Church till the time of the Empresse Irene The wordes of the Homelie are these These things were done in the Church about the yeare of our Lorde 760. Note here I pray you in this processe of the storie that in the Churches of Asia and Grece there were no Images publikely by the space of 700. yeares and there is no doubt but the primitiue Churche next the Apostles tymes was most pure Now where the words and meaning of the Homilie are most plaine and so true withal that ye could not gainsay it nor your Maister D. Harding coulde improue any point of B. Iewels chalenge about the same article ye wittingly wrest the wordes of the Homilie to the. 700. yeares preceding the taking of Constantinople by the great Turke chalenging the Homilie to alleage the Gretians to haue bene Iconomaches all that while thinking to fasten as ye call it a notorious lie on the Homilie But the Homilies truth is manifest and the lye lighteth on your selfe besides your rashnes to affirme without the booke on your owne fingers that for many hundreth yeres before Images customably continued in the Greke Church and so reuerently afterwardes continued euen till Constantinople was taken by the great Turke For the which though it would go harde with you to put you to your profe and to let it hang in suspence of a lye till ye haus confirmed it yet letting it passe I onely demaunde that if your Images haue such great force as your Legendes pretende howe chaunce they kept the Citie and their worshippers no better from the Turkes can they do no morethan the dumbe Idols that the Prophet speaketh of Habent gladium securim in manu se autem de bello latroâ—…ibus non liberant they haue a sword and an axe in their hand but they deliuer not themselues from warre and from theues Or rather if it be as ye say were the Grecians not deliuered ouer to those enimies as for their other vices so chiefly for that their Idolatrie as the children of Israell for the like were ledde captiue into Babylon The other thing that Maister Stapleton noteth in the Homelie is this Many other shamefull lies are there saith he to disgrace deface and destroy the Images of Christ his Saintes especially one wheras he sayth that the Emperor Valence and Theodosius made a proclamation that no man shoulde paint or carue the crosse of christ And thervpon gaily and iolily triuÌ„pheth vpon the catholiks VVheras the Proclamation neither is nor was to restrayne all vse of the crosse but that it should not be painted or carued vpon the grouÌ„d VVhich these good Emperours not Valens for he was the valiant captaine and defendâ—…r of the Arians but Valentinianus and Theodosius did of great godly reucreÌ„ce that they had to the crosse enact And yet as grosse as soul as loud a lying fetch as this is M. Iewell walketh euen in the verye same steppes putting Valens for Valentinian and alleaging this edict as general against al Images of the crosse You take vpon you lustily M. Stapl. to chalenge in your brode language both the Homilie the B. of Sarum â–ª But it is your maner there is no shift ye must be borne withall chiefly in this your extrauagant by quarrel Otherwise if ye had coÌ„sidered more indifferently the homilies the B. allegatioÌ„ no doubt you would haue tempered your pen with more sobrietie ye chalenge either of them for two lies in this allegation the one for putting the name of Valens for Valentinian the other for citing that simply that was conditionall which though it were as ye pretend yet neither of these the B. or the Homilies author are to be
facit hypocritam For the sinnes of the people God maketh the hypocrite to reigne â–ª So that nothing is impossible Our sinnes are such as may deserue or Gods trial may be suche as he may proue vs with affliction vnder a Turke or heretike or any other tyrant or vsurper But what is all this to the purpose Shal not lawfull and godlie Christian Princes as Gods blessed name be praysed therefore he hath so blessed Englande presently with suche a moste happie Princesse for all his moste gracious and rare gifts shyning in hir that we maye iustly saye Non talâ—…er fecâ—… omni nationi he hath doone the lyke in our dayes to no christian nation I speak it not to flatter hir or to blemish any other estate but to glorifie God for hir to confirme vs iâ—… our allegiance and to confounde your disobedience to hiâ—… highnesse shal not I say such Godly princes vnite maâ—… sure to them and their heires all such lawfull authoritie as belongeth vnto their estate bicause it may be abused by other Princes hereafter If ye saye it is not their lawfull authoritie nor belongeth vnto them of ryghte That woulde beproued fyrst Maister Stapleton for otherwyse thys youre presupposall toucheth as well their authoritie ouer temporall matters as ouer spirituall If the one may be vnited bycause it is ryghte why maye not the other béeyng ryghte alsâ—… be lykewyse vnited withoute thys vayne castyng beyonde the Mâ—…Wue to let goe a certentie of present righte for feare of an vncertayne daunger of some inconuenience to come And yet if any suche chauÌ„ce should come ye should alwaies consider a difference betwéene a Princes authoritie and a Princes tyrannie betwéene his duetie and hys doing whether he be Turke Iewe Heretike Heathen or whatsoeuer he be or whatsoeuer he do he oughte to be a faithfull Christian Prince and he ought to do nothing but that a christian Prince may lawfully do Neither do any godly lawes giue the Prince that nowe is or euer shall be any other authoritie than lawfull authoritie And as for this clause of the statute euen your selfe do confesse that it giueth none other superioritie to be vnited to the crowne of the Prince whatsoeuer the Prince be or shall be or may be but to do that that is lawfull and that that he oughte to do For the words which ye cite are these That all maner superiorities that haue or may lawfully be exercised for the visitation of persons ecclesiasticall And correcting all maner of errours heresies and offences shall be foreuer vnited to the Crowne of the Realme of Englande These wordes ye sée vnite no other authoritie but suche as may lawfully be exercised and so lawfully it vniteth to the Crowne the correction of errours heresies and offences not the maintenaunce of errours heresies and offences Nowe if ye thinke the Turke would thus do ye thinke better of him than I can conceiue and make me to thinke worsse of you than I thought If ye thinke the Turke as is moste likely would not do these things that the statute yéeldeth to the Prince that is to say he would vsurpe that superioritie that may not be lawfully â–ª exercised he woulde mainteine errours heresies and offences he would set out the Alcaron and worship of Mahomet and suppresse and beate downe the Testament and worship of Iesu Christ thâ—… the statute toucheth him not nor he the statute noâ—… any othe is héere required and your inconuenient presupposall is put foorth in vayne For the statute yéeldeth not all correction simply but correction of errours heresies and off ences that he exercise it lawfully which the Turke will not do nor can do béeing an opeÌ„ enimie to Christes true religioÌ„ And therfore where ye say on this clause of the statute wherin is implied that if a Turke or any heretike whatsoeuer should come to the Crowne of Englande by vertue of this statute and of the othe all maner superioritie in visiting and correcting eccl. persons in all maner matters shoulde be vnited vnto him This is your excéeding falshod to the truthe and too much iniurie to the statute and playne trechery to the crowne to say that the statute implieth this doing of the Turke or this swearing and beleeuing so in him For the statute implieth nothing but that belongeth to a very christian Prince The statute implyeth no suche absolute superioritie of correcting ecclesiastical persons in al maner matters This is to borrowe a worde of your owne rhethorike too too Turkishly and spitefully put in of you to make it appeare â—… great inconuenience Where the wordes that ye cite of the statute speake of correcting all maner of errours heresies and offences And is there no differeÌ„ce trow you betwéene the correcting of all maner of errours heresies and offences the correcting al maner matters The one no maÌ„ wil denie to be godly to punish the euil The other is so large in deede that if a Turk or an heretike had the doing therof he might punish vertues in stéede of vices truth in place of falshood and say that he punished some maner matters except truth and vertue be no matter with you as it appeareth by this your presuppesall and your false implying on the statute that ye make it no great matter either what become of Gods true religion or of the Crowne of Englande It séemeth ye care not greatle whether a Turke or any heretike whatsoeuer had the Crowne of Englande or the Crowne of any other Realme so that your Pope might kéepe his triple Crowne and you the dignitie of your shauen Crowne Which to mainteine in honor what daunger heretofore ye haue brought the Realme in other can tell and Englande hath felt the popish practises to bring this Realme in bondage the crowne therof to strangers And on condition that this clause of superioritie were annexed not to the Prince but to the pope M. St. could like it wel and would spende to haue it so the best peny in his pouch Although a more perilous enimie to Christ and Christes church than is the pope is neither Turke or any other heretike or arch-heretike whatsoeuer that would not care if the moâ—…t royal crowne of Englande and most christian Realme were on a fishpoole bicause it hath reiected his superioritie and to shew his good will thertâ—… he hath abandoned it with his great curse to any that will come Christian Heathen Turke Iewe heretike or whatsoeuer he be that will either destroy it or reduce it to his captiuitie farre more dangerous to the soule than is the Grecians bodily slauery to the Turke But all this M. Stap. will vtterly denie that there were any suche boâ—…dage if that this clause were vnited to the Popes triple Crowne Go to M. St. were this also graunted you will not your owne deuised inconuenience as well come to passe the pope hauing it for euâ—…r vnited vnto him as if the
to make an ende of questioning This in the statute by master Hornes silence is not comprised True in déede M. Stapl. this kinde of iudgement is not mentioned by the Bishop â–ª but it is moste falsly mentioned by you For where ye say this in the statute moste maliciously ye slaunder the statute for this in the statute is neither named comprised or can be gathered thereon Neither the Quéenes Maiestie claymeth or taketh on hir this kinde of iudgement It is due onely to Gods worde and your Pope and popishe Churche violently snatcheth it from Gods worde chalenging it to them selues euen aboue Gods worde it selfe although they agrée not héerein togither For the popishe Churche will be aboue the Pope in thys poynt of iudgement maugre his bearde and yet they graunt the Pope to be their supreme gouernour ecclesiasticall Though they will not relent to him this supreme iudgement but giue it to the Churches iudgement And therefore they be of a contrarie iudgement to you that say this poynt is moste necessarie meete and conuenient for a supreme gouernour ecclesiastical By which poynt you wil make your Pope either no supreme gouernour eccl ouer you or spoyle him of a most necessarie meete and couenient poynt of the supreme gouernment that ye giue him but these are your iarres agrée as ye wil like cats in a glitter about theÌ„ This popish churches or papall iudgement the Q. Maiestie taketh not vpon hir nor the statute ascribeth it vnto hir and therefore the B. had nought to do therewith Yet haue we one thing more which after a couple of your slauÌ„ders that I answere not but referre to your common place thereon ye charge the Bishop once more for this omission Agayne say you preaching the worde administration of the sacraments bynding and loosing â–ª are they not things and causes eccl How then are they heere omitted by you master Horne or how make you the supreme gouernment in all causes to rest vpon the Queenes Maiestie if these causes haue no place there What should a man vse many words with suche a brabler who though he haue nought to say yet will neuer lâ—…e saying of that which is nought to purpose Ye have beene often inough and fully inoughe answered to this master St. if the Quéenes Maiestie taketh not these thinges vpon hir then the B. omitteth not any thing that hir highnesse taketh on hir in omitting these things Neither doth the â–ª sratute yéelde vnto hir the doing of them It is but your slaunderous obtruding of the statute It giueth a supreme gouernmeÌ„t in al these things to the Q. Maiestie And so these causes haue place there so farre as is néedful to a supreme gouernour But from a supreme gouernour which consisteth in caring for ordering directing prouiding guyding maynteining setting foorth to the executing doing preaching and administring of those things is as farre from any good conclusion as you your matter are farre from truthe and honestie Neuerthelesse such is your great coÌ„fidence in this your Counterblast as though ye had so puft vp the falshood therof that no man could espie it ye lustely blowe vp the last blast of this your first booke saying VVhich is nowe better I appeale to all good consciences playnly to maynteine the truthe than dissemblingly to vphold a falsshod playnly to refuse the othe so generally conceiued than generally to sweare to it beeing not generally meaned â–ª But nowe let vs see how M. Horne wyll direct his proufes to the scope appoynted Why may not you appeale to all good consciences M. Stap. as well as that mayden Priest of yours that mighte bidde his maydenhead Goodmorrowe and haue as good a conscience for your owne parte as he for his parte had a maydenhead And to shew your good conscience for a farewell while ye shake handes at the very parting ye lash â–ª out a couple of slaunderous vntruthes togither Ye haue not many words to speake and therfore ye huddle them vp You say the othe is conceiued so generally that it giueth to the Prince your foresayde absolute power of determining all doubts and controuersies of preaching the worde administration of the sacraments bynding and loosing This lie to lappe vp all in the ende was worthe a whetstone M. Stapl. and his fellowe that iutteth with him chéeke by chéeke is as good as he That the othe generally conceyued is not generally meaned But set aside your malitious meaning to wrest the othe and the othe is playne and all one bothe in wordes and meaning But howe soeuer the othe were not so generally conceiued your meaning is playnely to refuse the othe And therefore héere in the ende for a remembraunce to all the rest you must néedes strike vp the stroke with ala lia and desperatly without al dissembling for the matter vpholde a falshoode with falshoodes euen to the laste breathe Et fiunt nouissima illius hominis peiora prioris And the latter ende of that man is worsse than the beginning ¶ The answere to foure Chapters in Doctor Saunders seconde booke of the visible Monarchie of the Churche concerning the question here in hande of a Christian Princes supreme gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes First of the difference of both povvers the ciuill and Ecclesiastical in the original in the vse and in the end of eyther Secondly vvhether the Prince be the Supreme gouernour immediatly vnder Christ. Thirdly vvhether the Prince may iudge and define of ecclesiasticall matters Fourthly whether Bishops maye depose Princes from their estate and take from the realme their povver of electing their Prince if they differ in religion from their Bishops VVhich foure chapters I thought good here to answere vnto both bicause he is the last writer and chiefest novve of accompte among the aduersaries And these chapters aboue al other in his volume both draw neerest to the question of the Princes estate and shew vvithall the full drift of the Papists not only striuing agaynst the Princes supremacie but into vvhat extreme slauerie they vvould reduce all Christian Kinges and kingdomes The argument of the fyrst Chapter of the difference betweene the Ciuile and Ecclesiasticall Magistrate in the originall in the vse and in the ende of bothe MAster Saunders firste beginning with the original lconfesseth that both powers are of God but not both immediatly from God the ciuile power he granteth to be of God but by the lawe of Nations or the consent of people and other meanes of mans wit put betweene But streight he correcteth himselfe that some thing in the ciuill authoritie was reuealed immediatly from God yea Per multa in lege Mosaica diuinitus instituta suerunt verie manie things pertaining to the ciuill power were in Moses law ordeyned of God. And thus at the fyrst he speaketh contraries Herevpon he concludeth thus I thinke therfore it is agreed vpon among all men that the royal imperial power which at this day is exercised in
doo Will ye haue a woman weare a mans apparell it is flat forbidden by Gods worde Will ye haue a Quéene fight hir self in a battaile and breake a speare as a king may do In déed some mannish women as the Quéene of Amazons Thomyris Semiramis and other haue so doone but it is not sitting And by your owne reason the imbecillitie of theyr kynde doth cléere them And a number of such other things may be reckoned vp Shall we now saye the Quéene is not supreme gouernour ouer these persons and causes bicause hir selfe can not doe them Likewyse for a king that is a chylde you know he can not fight in battell himselfe neyther can he himselfe sit in iudgement and debate rights and wrongs in ciuil doubtes manie mo things can he himselfe not doe euen bicause as ye say he hath a defect in iudgemeÌ„t Hath he therfore in these ciuill and temporall thyngs no supreme gouernment Thus ye sée still your examples faile yea they make cleane agaynst you for as a supreme gouernor may wel be a supreme gouernor in those things that he himself can not do so a christeÌ„ princes supreme gouernmeÌ„t ouer al ecclesiastical persons in al ecclesiastical causes is nowhit hindred although the prince he or she yong or old can not do the functions ecclesiastical nor be an ecclesiast person The second argument is that he so often and al the Papists vse of the excellencie of the minister in his ministration aboue the Prince To this he citeth the saying of Saint Paule Let men â—…o esteeme vs as ministers of Christ and dispensers of his mysteries To whiche ministerie kings are not called And here is againe alledged the storie of â—…ziae that presumed to offer incense and was punished with â—…eaprie The effect of all the argument he knitteth vp thus Siergo minister c. If therfore the minister of the Church of Christ exercise a greater and more diuine ministerie than the king or any other prince howe is the king the Supreme heade of that churche wherein he seeth certaine ministers greater than himselfe I answere this is a fallation secundum quid ad simpliciter We graunt in the respect of his ministerie the minister is aboue all Princes But this pertayneth to the actions and function of the minister and not to the ouersight and direction that all those actions and functions be orderly done Nowe this béeing but a common argument Master Saunders vrgeth it further by comparison of eyther estate the Prince and the Priest from the olde Testament to the newe saying Ac nimirum illud c. And thys namely I seeme to take by my right the authoritie of any Christian king in his christian kingdom is not greater than was in tymes paste the authoritie of any Iewishe kyng among the people of the Iewes for if the Citie of God to whyche Chryste of his owne name hathe giuen a newe name maye verily bee the more woorthie but can not be inferiour to the Churche of the Iewes â–ª Surely then it followeth that a christian king ouer his christian kingdome can not obtaine more power than a kyng of the Hebrue nation did obteyne among the Hebrâ—…wes For howe muche the more any Common weale is subiecte too their earthly Kyng the authoritie of that common weaâ—…e is so muche the lesse But the authoritie of the Churche of Christe is not lesse than the authoritie of the Synagoge of the Iewes bycause in the churche of Christe those thinges were fulfilled to the verie image of the things whiche in the Synagoge of the Iewes were scarce figured by the naked shadowes As the truthe in deede in greater than the image so againe the image is greater than the shadowe but this is euident that the authoritie in times past of the only king is lesser than the authoritie of his christian kingdome or of hys Bishops But if it be so then the christian king which is both lesse than the church and the bishops of his kingdom cannot be immediatly vnder Christ the head of the churche This argument is intricate and full of many inuersed cringle crangles to shewe a face of déepe and subtill knowledge beyonde the simple mans capacitie whyche kynd of reasonyng is more suspicious than to edifying The effecte of the argument standeth all on this The greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the Priestes and the churche But the priestes and the churche haue not lesse authoritie but aboue a christian king Ergo the king hath not supreme authoritie To the Maior that the greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the priests and the churche he sayeth nothing And yet some what is to be sayde thereto it is not so cléere as he makes it For sith eyther of these thrée haue their authorities in dyuers considerations the Priests authoritie may be greater than the kings authoritie in one respecte that is of his diuine actions and ministerie and yet in an other of the gouernement and publike direction the kinges authoritie is greater than his And so althoughe the Churches authoritie in one respecte be greater than bothe the Kings and the Priestes as they are bothe but membres and children of the Churche yet in regarde that the one is a Pastour and the other a gouernour and both of them Fathers and guyders as it were vnto the church their authorities againe are greater than the Churches And this also sheweth the falshood of the Minor that the Priestes and the Churche haue not lesse authoritie but are aboue the prince Which is not true but in suche respectes as nothing hinder the supreme gouernement that we giue the prince But Maister Saunders to confirme this to bée simply true the prince to be inferior to the Priests and people will proue it by his comparison of the state of the olde and newe Testament And first he will haue the state of the olde Testament in the Churches gouernement to be a figure of the newe But in the estate of the old Testament the Prince was vnder the priest and the people Ergo it must be so in the new To the maior we graunte him the gouernment of the Church in the old testament to be a figure of the churches gouernment in the new testameÌ„t And remember this well that here M. Saunders buyldes vpon For if he himselfe shal be found to swarue from it afterwarde when he findeth it shall make agaynst hym then let him blame himselfe and let vs note bothe inconstancie and cantradiction in him who playeth the snayle puttyng in and out his hornes and will say and eate his worde as he thinketh best to his aduantage And this is the fashions of them all in the examples of the old testament as we haue séene the practise of M. Feckenham M. Stapleton which is a subtile false and vnstedfast kind of dealing But go to we denie the minor that in the state of the
StapletoÌ„ and al the residue But howsoeuer they dodge out with it it wil not serue M. SauÌ„ders at this time For although it be true that Salomon had also the gift of prophesie yet Salomon did not this as Prophet but as king And in his blessing expressely prayeth for the raigne of his posteritie Neither neede M. Saunders run to this shift for euen Lyra saith et Benedixit c. and he blessed al the congregation not with that blessing that pertained to the priestly office but by wishing good things vnto the people and rendring thanks to God for his good gifts receaued saying blessed be the Lord god c. And in the ende of the Chapter the people blesse him also but this declareth not their superioritie although the kings solemne action declares him their better in his royall office for the establishing whereof he prayeth The like shifte ye make for Moyses and Dauid that they were also prophetes But what say ye to Saule that blessed Dauid 1. Reg. 26. he was in dede Dauids superior and he had béen among the prophetes too whereof the prouerbe arose num et Saul inter Prophetas is Saule also among the Prophetes But trow ye he blessed him as a Prophete and yet in blessing him although he himselfe were accursed he foretold the truth that Dauid shoulde doe great things What saye ye to Iosue that blessed Caleb Iosue 14. yea he blessed two tribes and a halfe of RubeÌ„ Gad and Manasses If ye except that he was a prophete too what say ye to Iehu that blessed Iehonadab and yet no prophet to Raguel that blessed Tobias and yet no prophete to Ozias the gouernour of Lethulia and Achior the Ammanite that blessed Iudith and yet no Prophetes nor all of them superiors and therefore this argumente serueth not to inferre gouernement neither alwayes to inferre superioritie neither is this shifte alwayes true that all the blesse are priests or prophetes Althoughe in priests whome Saint Paule speaketh of it argue a superioritie of their function as before is graunted But Maister Saunders hauing gotten hold on this word blessing as though he had founde a newe vaine procéedeth saying And truely when God had rather haue had his people to haue bene blessed of the priests of the Leuiticall kinde and of the prophetes than to haue bene gouerned of a king yet the people asked a King against the will of God which petition God in dede permitted to be fulfilled howbeit he sawe it dyd tend to the contempt of his name whervpoÌ„ he said to Samuel they haue not cast thee away but me that I should not raigne ouer them For although God raigned ouer his people euen when the kings gouerned them yet he had seemed to raigne in better signification and plainer if the people had obeyed any prophet or priest or Leuite Now that Maister Saunders former proues will fadge no better he séeketh oute all the wayes he can to deface the royall estate of a Kyngs authoritie in comparison of his Priests gouernment He sayth God had rather haue had his people ben blessed of the priests and the prophets thaÌ„ gouerned of kings dispitefully making these two to be meÌ„braopposita contraries the one to other The gouernment of kings â–ª and the blessing of Priestes and Prophets As though the people were berefte of the Priestes and Prophetes blessings bicause not they but kings did gouerne them But if the people had still the Priestes and Prophets blessings when Kings gouerned them so well as before then is this opposition no lesse false than malicious And that they had stil the Priests and Prophets blessing is apparant But what meanes M. Saunders to name onely their blessings â–ª did the Priestes and Prophetes nought but blesse would he by so swéete a name reuoke vs to the Popes blessings but he telleth vs else where that the Pope hath cur â–ª sed vs and no maruell for the chiefest parte of his power lyeth in cursing But he loueth cursing and his cursing shall light vpon himselfe and God dothe turne his cursings into blessings But troweth he the Priests Prophets then did curse and ban as the Pope dothe nowe by cause the kings were the supreme gouernours â–ª or that the supreme gouernment belonged first to them and from them was translated to the Kings Howbeit M. Saunders sayth not so but the the priestes and prophets blessed the people But what is that to gouernement the controuersie is of the priestes gouernement and the question here is driuen to this whether God had rather haue hadde the priestes and the prophetes to gouerne the Israelites than the kings Nowe M. Saunders although this be his onely meaning dothe not put nor dare put the question thus as in plain speach he ought to do For knowing that the state then of the Churches gouernement was not so much of the priestes and prophetes as of other ciuil Magistrates called the Iudges it had theÌ„ appeared he had said little to his purpose But as though all the state before of the kings had ben of the priestes and prophets he couereth his falsehoode with this fairâ—… mantell of the priests and prophets Blessinges and mentioneth not their gouernemente whyche is the thing hee shooteth at â–ª Whereas all that time from Iosue the firste Iudge to Saule the fyrste King among so many Iudges we reade but of one Prieste whiche was Helie of one Prophete which was Samuel that gouerned the Church of God And yet these neither gouerned it in respect of priesthood or prophecying or blessing but in respecte of that ciuill authoritie whereby they were called Iudges Thus that estate that he pretendes maketh the more for him maketh as much against him as the state of Kings that followed For whether God had rather haue had the one or the other it still proueth God had rather haue had the ciuil Magistrate were he iudge or king to be the supreme gouernor although at that time the supreme gouernment hapned whiche it seldome dyd to a person ecclesiasticall But God altered this estate and brought it to Kings Neyther dare I saye as Master Saunders very boldly saythe that God had rather haue had the other estate For if he wold he myght haue kepte it still Voluntati eius quis resistit who resisteth his will but it pleased God the state should bée altered and so it was Master Saunders vrgeth this that God was muche offended I graunt he was vnderstanding it not so grossely as Master Saunders séemes to doe but like a Diuine so as we admit in God no perturbation nor change of mynde for God had purposed the chaunge before and liked well of his forepurpose But his displeasure was agaynste the sinne of the people who distrusting of Gods sufficient helpe in the former estate inordinately dyd craue a King and not that hée eyther mislyked the estate of a King or thoughte it the worsser
spiritual sacrifices we haue and therefore the other outvvarde of the Iewes are gone as those that were vnperfect and with the outwarde sacrifices is the outward priesthood gone also But still blundring on with your false principles you goe forward to proue that you haue taken the best left the worâ—… in the priesthoode and sacrifices of the Iewes saying For the high B. in the state of the Gospell is not borne after the propagation of the fleshe but is elected according to the giftes of spirituall grace And our sacrifices consist not in shedding of the bloud of beastes but in remeÌ„bring the bloud of the immaculate Lambe and in dayly setting forth after an vnbloudie manner the substance of the Lambe And so that which was spiritual perfecte in the lavv vve haue not lost â–ª but that vvhich was vnperfect and carnal we haue not kept You coine Maximies M. Sanders speake as one thâ—… might kéepe and leaue what he liste standing still on youâ—… former presupposall that to haue one visible Byshop ouerall Gods people is a pointe of perfection and to haue outwarde sacrifices is also a point of perfection But neither of these iâ—… yet proued which shâ—…uld haue firste bene done and then yâ—… might haue entred your comparison whether those or theâ—… were better You preferre your Pope bycause he hath 〈◊〉 high Byshoprike as you cal it not by byrth but by election according to the giftes of spirituall grace but as the election of the Pope verie often hath falne out with so small giftes of spiritual grace that al y grace was either in the gifts of brybiâ—… money of canuased factions or of geuing cufâ—…es and dealing of harde blowes for it so the obtayning the highe Byshoprike of the Iewes that descended by byrth was manyâ—… times farre the better As for sacrifices where you saye yours consist not in shedding the bloude of beastes whaâ—… auayleth it hauing imbrued your mouthes with the bloudâ—… of Christ for if as you pretende you drinke his very bloude â—…owe are you not bloudsuckers and your sacrifice worsse than was the Iewes Besides the cruell sacrifices that you dayly make in shedding the bloude of men and Saintes of God a farre worsse sacrifice than shedding the bloude of beastes For of that for the time God was the appointer but of this the Deuill is the authour that was an homicide from the beginning But you say your sacrifice of Chryste is not bloudie If it be of bloude howe is it not bloudie if it be not bloudie â—…owe is it of bloude It is say you in a remembrance of the â—…mmaculate Lambe Woulde you stande to this Maister Saunders then indéede it were not bloudie for the rememâ—…rance of bloud is not bloud it selfe But straight ways you â—…onfute your selfe and come in with setting forthe the substance of the Lambe Whereas Chryste sayde not his Disâ—…iples shoulde sette forthe his substance but they shoulde â—…et forth his death But the death of Chryste is one thing â—…nd the substance of Christe another thing Neither dothe Christe make the Sacrament of his bodie a sacrifice of his â—…odie muche lesse maketh he two sacrifices of himselfe the â—…ne done once for all the other dayly done the one for himselfe to exhibite the other for them to exhibite the â—…ne bloudie the other vnbloudie These are the sacrifices of â—…our Popes making prophaning derogaâ—…ing from the saâ—…ifice of Iesus Christe and therfore worsse than the Iewes â—…crifices that were the figure of it and for the time were â—…ood Now such as is your sacrifice suche muste needes your â—…crificing priesthoode be You haue not therefore as you â—…ake for your sacrifice and Priesthoode retained the betâ—…r but haue deuised the worsse and suche as are starke â—…aught As for the other part of the minor for the estate of Princes 〈◊〉 â—…aue bene imperfecte and therfore abolished you labour 〈◊〉 proue two wayes The one admitting the Prince 〈◊〉 haue bene greater than the Prieste in procuring ecclesiasticall matters what a great imperfection for diuerâ—… causes it had bene the other by flat denyall that the Princes were the greater in administring those thinges that pertained to ecâ—…l matters These are subtill spéeches M. Saunders and maye be doubtfully vnderstoode As thoughe we ment the Prince were a more principall executer or doer of those thinges Whereas we plainely affirme that in the Ministeriall procuration the Priest was the highest But in respect of ouerseeing that euen the highest Priest shoulde doe his duetie therein we say the Prince was greater than he And that is proued by the first obiection that your self M. Saunders propounde of the Protesâ—…ntes neyther doe you denie the truth of the obiection but shake it of in saying the gouernement now is changed that it was then vnperfect Else why do you accuse it of imperfection if it were then as you wold haue it nowe the Prieste to be greater than the Prince and so in chalenging it of imperfection you grauÌ„t the thing Neyther do we deny that the state of those Princes was not in all things perfect Althoughe your selfe haue graunted the state of a Monarchie to be a perfect state but yet the state thereof was in his kinde more perfecte than was the Priesthoode both bycause it was ouer the Priesthoode as is obiected and you haue graunted and bycause that the Princes estate althoughe it be taken from Iewes yet it remayneth still entier with vs whiche the Priesthoode doth not nor can do But let vs sée your Reasons First esay you bycause Priesthoode was more auncient than the kingly right For the receiuing of Priests was partly receiued from the beginning vnder the lawe naturall yea before the floude when as yet there were no kings partely it had the superioritie certaine ages after Moses according to the lawe giuen by him when as yet among Gods people no king was extant but howe much more auncient a thing is in religion it is worthily counted so much more the worthier This argumente standeth on Antiquitie whiche beyng drawne from the word of God and truely applied maketh a good argumeÌ„t And would to God you would alwayes make gods word the ground of your Antiquitie which would sone decipher manie Popishe errors pretending great Antiquitie to be but late vpstarts But to reason from Antiquitie in things that are antiquate and outgrowne to retaine them still being lawfully displaced and that more is to reason from Antiquitie to worthinesse maye be an anciente but not ouerworthie reason For by this râ—…le an olde caste coate may be better than a new And although you restraine your selfe vnto antiquitie in ReligioÌ„ what helpeth this sith the bloodie sacrifice of a shéepe as pleading Antiquitie from Abel might by this reason become a more worthie worship of God than Baptisme or the Lords Supper Yea circumcision and the Passouer should haue bene better Sacramentes than ours bicause they wore
earthly in this respect as M. Saunders him selfe confesseth neither bathe he the gouernement of the Churche which is dispersed in many kingdomes but is a gouernour of a parte therof or of some particular Churche Nowe when M. Saunders hath thus proued as he thinketh the imperfection of the olde lawe saying And thuâ—… should these thinges be if in the olde time the kinges of the Iewes had exercised any chiefe power in ecclesiasticall matters and ouer the Bishops He turneth him selfe on the other side to the flat deniall of this which in the answere to our first obiection he flatly graunted and fled then to thyâ—… shifte that the case was altered But nowe sayth he neither is it true that the Kinges of the Iewes were counted greater than the Priestes of the Leuiticall kinde in administring those thinges that pertayned to ecclesiasticall matters whiche by peece meale I will not be greeâ—…ed to shewe It will not greeue you to tell a lye M. Saunders but to tell the truthe it woulde be a greefe vnto you Where dyd we say that the Kings of the Iewes were counted greater than the Priests in administring those thinges that pertayned to ecclesiasticall matters But go too let vs sée what peecemeale proues you bring And firste saye you Moyses commaunded that after the King was sette in the seate of hys kingdome hee shoulde wryte oute for him selfe in a volume another copâ—…e of this lawe â–ª taking the copie of the Priestes of the â—…euiticall Tribe But if not onely other but the king also him selfe muste go to the Priests for writing out of the lawe how was the king the prince in interpreting the lawe the copie whereof he was compelled to craue of other was he not herein admonished that he should remember that the priests were his superiours in those things that pertayned to the law for as euery Magistrate crauing the sworde of the king receiuing it doth in so doing declare the king in the right of the sword to be greater than him selfe after the same sorte is it when the king receyueth of the Pristes the copie of the diuine law Is this the copie of your piece meale proues M. Sand he that should take a copie of your argumentes might per haps haue néede but God wot shoulde finde full slender stuffe in them This argument is copied out of Stapleton and your other collectors and is already answered Which if it were good bycause the Prince taketh the copie of the lawe from the Priest therefore in the gouernment of matters pertayning to the lawe the Priest is aboue the Prince then is the Register aboue the Chauncelor the Bishop then is the Clarke aboue the Stewarde and the Prince bicause he hath the kéeping of the recordes And this is a more like example than that you bring in of a Magistrate crauing and receyuing the sworde of the king for in this example the King hath not onely the kéeping of the sworde but al the authoritie of and lawfull exercise of the sworde vnder God dependeth on him and suche as he will giue it vnto Wherfore he acknowleageth rightly the King to be his greater But in the lawe of God where the kinges gouernement is appoynted to him and by that appoyntment of God he hath interest in matters of the lawe of God by his kingly office and therefore must haue the lawe of God about him to directe his giuerment and hath not this interest authorie giuen him of the Priest as the subiect hathe the authoritie and exercise of the sworde giuen him of the king doth this argue a like that the Priest is superiour bicause he muste haue the kéeping of the lawe and the king that he may be sure he hath a true copie of Gods lawe muste haue it of the Priest Dothe the keeping argue the greater authoritie â–ª The king must haue the crowne of the kéeper of the crowne and the seale of the keeper of the seale is the keeper therefore the greater Nay it rather argueth althoughe in looking too that those thinges be well kepte and truely declared they haue a more especiall charge in their offices yet are they rather inferiours in that they haue for the kings behoofe the kéeping and deliuery of them And so the priest hathe an especiall charge of keeping and deliuering to the Prince the lawe of God bicause of his especiall vocation in the studie profession and administration of it Whiche argueth more cunning and learning of duetie to be looked for at his handes than at the Princes And therefore we ascribe not as you saye greater principalitie to Princes in the interpreting of the lawe of God. Princes commit that to the interpreters But to the Prince is committed a superiour charge of gouerning all persons to ouersee that the lawe of God be rightly interpreted and administred And for this cause the Prince oughte to haue the copie of the lawe not him selfe to interprete it and whereto then to lye idly by him no to gouerne him selfe and all his subiectes by the prescription of it After this he alleageth the examples of Moyses Samuell Iosue Dauid Salomon Constantius and Theodosius In Moyses and Samuell he hathe nothing that is not common To Iosue Dauid and Salomon he vseth Stapletons answeres and there is answered The examples of Constantius and Theodosius are somewhat already answered and shall be further God willing when we come to the practise And likewise to the Councels that he citeth The argument of the fourth Chapter That Christian Princes may be deposed from their estates by the Bishops and their kingdomes giuen to other when their gouernment hurteth the truth of the faith and the soules health whereto they are ordayned IN this 4 Chapter M. SauÌ„ders kepeth no perfect method and therfore we must follow him as he procéedeth First he maketh two kinds of men the earthly man and the heauenly man and so likewise two kingdoms the one earthly the other heauenly The earthly kingdome choseth their king by humaine consent as Nimrod c. Of the heauenly kingdom that Christ hath in the earth Christ is the king Who although by the worthinesse of his nature he be king of all men yet is he called onely the king of the faithfull Who comming into the world as he hath not taken away the former nature of maÌ„ but renued it so hath he not destroyed the earthly kingdome but amended it Here vpon he concludeth that earthly kings may be made Citizens of gods Church and vse all their olde right and most free gouernement in all those causes that diâ—…ishe not the faith and Religion of christ They may make whome they will fit Ciuil magistrates They maye appoint at their pleasure lawfull punishments for malefactors and freely do al other thing that by the law Naturall Nationall Ciuil or Mâ—…nicipall shall be allowed To all this as we agree with M. Saunders and therfore I gather bâ—…t a briefe coÌ„tâ—…ct
that the Kyng should be obedient to the disposition of the humaine minister of Christ which is the question nowe in hande And yet whether it signifie this mysterie that you say it onely doth or no may be called into question For if it hath such a significatiō it is a very darke mysterie And me thinks it might more easilye signifie other things For oyle sometimes signifieth mercie sometimes plentie sometimes remedie against poyson sometimes it is referred to the Priesthoode sometimes to the kingdome of Christ somtimes to the mysticall members of Christ as they are Kings Priests with him so that the anoynting with oyle which espetially was vsed to Priests and Kings who therefore are called the sons of oyle is applyed to sundry significations and not onely to the incarnation and humaine nature of Christe And yet is there no suche necessitie of anoynting Christian Kings as was of the Iewishe Kings For they had commaundement so to doe and it was a ceremoniall figure of diuerse things in christ Which commaundement and ceremonies Christian Princes are not bound vnto It is cropen vp of a custome I cānot tel how to imitate the Iewes herein But as for the nature of a Kings estate he is neuer a whit the lesse King if he wante the anoynting with oyle and as the Papistes superstitiouslie doe vse it it were muche better away But the Papistes make a great matter of anoynting Kings with oyle yea sayth Maister Saunders they were wont to be annoynted no otherwise than were the Prophetes and Priestes as thoughe they shoulde be so anoynted still And true it is in one sense that they shoulde no other wise be so annoynted still that is to say neyther of them shoulde be anoynted No say you should not the Priestes be annoynted ▪ We are In deede you be Maister Saunders and all your order But the Apostles and Disciples of Christe were not and therefore your order is differing from theirs and all godly ministers should differ from yours be ye shorne or be ye anoynted But if it be true that you say kings should be no otherwise anoynted than you howe chaunce then ye are anoynted otherwise than kings as your glosse doth reason that vpon the King is powred oile but vpon the Bishop is powred Chrisme Kings are anoynted on the righte shoulder but Byshops and Priestes are annoynted vpon their heads but the heade is better than the shoulder and Chrisme is better than oyle Ergo Bishops and Priests are superior vnto Kings Were not they which anoynted their pamphlets with such greasie argumentes to perch vp their balde crownes aboue the imperiall crownes of their natural Soueraignes worthy by the Princes commaundemente to be well anoynted with vnguentum baculinum to make them acknowledge their due subiection if they rather deserue not sharper instice but let vs procéede vnto M. Saunders other arguments Let vs put the case that Christ himselfe is at this day conuersant in the earth as he was conuersant in times paste Can any man doubt but in that he is man al Christian kings ought to be vnder his gouernment both in all eccl. and in those secular causes that may promote the cause of the Chruche for he shall raigne in the house of Iacob for euer and there shal be no ende of his kingdomes If therefore earthly Kings are parte of the house of Iacob Christ shall raigne ouer them and shall subdue their Kingdomes to hys spirituall Kingdome But whatsoeuer power was necessarye vnto Christe to eternall saluation he transformed the externall and and visible ministerie thereof vnto the Apostles when he said as my father hath sent me so I send you The Apostles therefore and their successors doe no lesse rule in spiritual causes ouer Christian Kings so far as the visible Ministerie than Christ himselfe is in truth ouer them so farre as the holy power of his humaine nature VVherevpon sayth Epiphanius Christ hath giuen a kingdome to those that are placed vnder him that it should not be sayde he proceedeth from little things to greater The throne of Christ abideth and of his kingdome there is no ende and he sitteth vpon the throne of Dauid so that he hath translated the kingdome of Dauid together with the Bishoprike and hath giuen it vnto his seruaunts that is to the Bishops of the Catholike Church Beholde so well the priestly as the Kingly power is communicated to the pastors of the Churche of Christe that by that meanes Christ shoulde be declared to raigne for euer yea euen as a spirituall and heauenly man And this truelye dothe that annoynting testifie that the Kings receyue of Priests The argument is thus If Christ himselfe were conuersant in earth in his humaine nature as he hath bene he shoulde haue ouer all Christian kings all eccl. and secular power in those things that might promote the Church But Christ hath giuen to his ministers in the visible ministerie all the power necessarie to saluation ouer Christian kings that belongeth to himselfe in his humaine nature Ergo he hath giuen his Ministers in the visible ministerie all ecclesiasticall and secular power in those things that maye promote the Church First this argument standeth vpon another presupposal which as it is no lesse false than the other so is it more impossible being flat contrarie to the worte of God and to the will of christ He puttes a case that Christ woulde come againe and in his humaine nature be conuersant vpon the earth as he was from his natiuitie till his death Good Lord M. Saūders is your cause so bad and false that you are still driuen to these shiftes to put the cases of false and forged presupposals if your cause were good it woulde stand of it selfe you might go plainely to worke and neuer reason vpon suche deuised cases as you knowe and beleue shall neuer be true except you be a Millenarie indéede as you gaue before a shrewde suspition of that heresie to think Christ shall come againe and here for a thousand yeares in all worldly might and glorie raigne in the earth and then go dwell in heauen But perhaps you wil say what wil you let me to put what case I lyft when the sky falles they say we shal haue Larkes True M. Saunders we can not let you to put what case you lyst be it neuer so absurde and repugnant to the truth But is this the rediest way to boult out the truth to put the case of an euident vntruth and to imagine that to come that neuer shall be to inferre that vsurpation of your Priestes that is and ought not to be But sée howe sone your argument is ouerturned For if your case be not admitted then is all your labour loste and you haue wonne nothing for your Priestes But the Scripture is manifest that this shall neuer come to passe And that the heauens containe Christ til the day of Iudgement he is neither here