of the knowledg to read of an audible voice and the other from the especiall gyftes of interpretatiō of doctrine exhortation giuen by the holy ghost as peculierly for the Church-ministerye Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. Ephes 4. And if he had not forgotten the ancient question after y e reading of Demostenes oration O what if you had heard him selfe speake it He would not haue maruayled y ◠God hath attributed the first fruits or rather first spring of our fayth to y e liuely preaching of the Worde James 1. which in that respect is compared to sowing Mat. 13 to begetting James 1. to grafting 1. Cor. 3. This trueth that all Ministers ought to be apt to teach as it is moste manifest and cleare by the Scriptures so it hath witnesse from the Church euen when it was fallen almost to decay but specially when-soeuer any worthye seruice of God florished as may appeare by their decrees canons sentences following few only of many being sparingly takē for breuities sake Concil Carthag 4. in y e rules of examining a Bish according to the 1. Tim. 3. amongst the other proprieties there mentioned it is required to be sought If he be learned if he be instructed in the law of God If he be Cautus sensibus scripturae warie in the sence of the scriptures si in dogmatibus exercitatus it he be exercised in doctrines opinions or sentences meaning of all sortes that he may be able to put difference And in the Canons of Pope Celestine the 1. Can. reproouing a superstition in Ministers in squaring their outwarde attire to the phrase of certaine places of Scripture We haue learned sayth he that some Priestes or Ministers of God do serue or giue them-selues to a superstitious kinde of seruice rather then to the puritye of the minde and faith who beeing cloked hauing their loynes girt beleeue that they shall embrace the faith of holy Scripture not by the spirit but by the letter And hauing shewed that we must not do the thinges but that which is ment by such speaches he saith further We are to be discerned from the people or others by doctrin not by garments Now when they haue no more soundnes in faith and abilitiy to admonishe then is requyred in Christians how are they discerned from the common people and others by doctrine Concil Toletan 4. Ignorance the mother of all errours is especially to be auoyded in Priestes or Ministers who haue taken on them the dutey of teaching among the people of God For Paul doth commaund Priestes or Ministers to read the Scriptures often saying to Timothy attend to reading exhortation let Priests or Ministers therefore know the holy scriptures and let them meditate the Canons let all their worke consist in diuine preaching and doctrine and let them edifie all as well with the knowledge of faith as with the discipline of works And Chriso 1. Tim 5. 17 For this is much for the edification of the Church and very requisite that the Elders be apt to teach for this cause with the rest with this that they should be giuen to hospitality they shoulde be moderate that they should be vnblameable he also numbreth this saying he must be didacticos apt to teach for this he is sayde to be a Teacher Which testimony declareth euidently that aptnesse to teach is no more an Idaea then all the rest specified by the Apostle So August Homilia de pastor Hauing prooued at large all the dueties of preaching to lye vppon the Pastours of the Church sheweth how by the Apostle they must not only preach but be instant in it saying For here the Apostle sayeth preach the Worde be instant in season and out of season To whom in season To whom out of season In season to those who will out of season to those who will not And thus much for an vnpreaching ministerie Ministers fallen to idolatrie from their Ministerie ought not to be receiued to their ministerie HItherto hath beene handled the principall cause of the Ministery as it were the proper glorye of the man of God that he be apt to teach Now it is meet in the next place to maynetayne also that truth which the aunswerer impugneth that Ministers fallen to idolatry ought not to be admitted vnto the ministerie of the Gospell by anye ordinary authoritie of the Church that so the glorye which God hath appoynted vnto the ministerie might be mayntayned both for sufficiencie and the authoritie which they should gaine by being voyde of all suspicion of inconstancie in that religion which he shoulde deliuer with much full perswasion of the truth to liue and die in the same and to be willing to deale their owne liues for their flocke For notwithstanding it must be true that aboue all thinges the Godly Ministers are to take diligent heede that they doe not in confidence of their strength or with a spice of free-will as Peter did boldly promise such constancie yea when we are by Christe his voyce admonished of our owne frailtie yet in all humblenesse trembling and feare resting vpon God his promise to minister strength to the weake and courage to the faint hearted they ought as the chiefe captaines of the Lordes army and conductors of his host not onely be free from probable suspicion of such foule cowardlinesse yea of execrable high Treason seeing such doe not onely flee before the enimies of God but vnto them and that betray the strong tower of God his pure and holy seruice into the hands of the diuell his sworne enemy but ought also to be examples patterns of al readines to suffer for the truth His wordes for the impugning of this manifest truth are The contrary of this Doctrine of his may bee prooued by the example of Aaron who was an Idolater or an abbettor of idolatry in the golden Calfe and yet was not from his repentance put from his priesthood Likewise by Peter whose reuolt and temporary Apostasy in denying his Master Christe was no lesse heinouse then the sinne of our idolatrouse priests who for the moste part sinned but of ignorance in that generall blindenesse Likewise Augustine afterward a famous Byshoppe was by the space of many yeares a detestable Manachy And after he alleageth many testimonies of the Concil Meldens the glo out of the Nicen and out of Leo. And Augustin that Heretickes as namely Nouatians and Donatistis returning from their Heresies may be receiued And out of Viret that From Popery men maye be receiued to the Gospell Peter Viret in dialog la discipline eccles des eglises reformes du royaulme de Fraunce pag. 128. 129. Now all these allegations although they carrye some shew to him who vnderstandeth not the cause yet to him that shal but once consider of the question as it is before with out ambiguitie set downe it is manifest that his allegations touch not the questions For the examples of Aaron and Peter were without the
¶ A COVNTER-POYSON Modestly written for the time to make aunswere to the obiections and reproches wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract would disgrace the holy Discipline of CHRIST Luke 19. vers 40. ¶ I tell you if those should holde their peace the stones woulde crye AT LONDON Printed by Robert Walde-graue The Authour to the Reader IT is sayde of Solomon who had no small experience in the course of al things that much reading is wearinesse vnto the flesh but it is most true euen in our owne experience that to deale with the vntamed and vntaught reason of man is a vanity vexation of spirit vnto those who loue the truth For what cunning shiftes and exquisite variety of subtleties haue they to decline the mighty strooke of the word of God And it is no maruaile if we poore dullardes be not only made blunt but almost worne awaye with encountring with such tough ware The onely comfort we haue is that when the diuell disputed yea continued disputing so long with the Son of God him self hee was at the length made to retire with those milde and yet most powrefull wordes The Lord rebuke thee Sathan Which most auncient example as it hath greatly sustayned me in this toyle of this tedious time wherein I haue had occasion to goe bare-foote through this quicke-set hedge of thornes which the aunswerer to the Abstract hath set in our way so it doth not a little grieue me that I am iealous ouer my selfe that I haue not followed in such measure as I ought that moderation which the sonne of God The prince of Angels kept when he encountred with the deuil notwithstanding I deale as I hope with a brother My comfort is that it shall be manifest that in steede of taking occasion where it was not giuen I haue swallowed downe that as sweet which is most loathsome and bitter I haue also stayd my course within the compasse of the first treatise and the daungerous appendix annexed to the same partly because I suppose he wil not abuse so much the Scripture as to wrest the defence of pluralities of Ciuill offices in Ministers of God his word of sole excommunication which is already handled in this treatise by the scripture and partly because the rest will for the most part pertaine properly to the worthye Lawyer who hath begun this controuersie and shall by the grace of God see a good end of the same The Lord bring vs all to be of one minde and hart in the truth A FAITHFVLL BROTHER to the Christian Reader THE FEAREFVL CONDItion in regard of our sinnes of this our age and in this our Noble Countrie may make thee good Christian reader and all who loue the peace of SION the flowrishing estate of this coÌ„monwealth vvith heauie soule and deepe sighes of heart to bevvaile the horrible wickednes of this land euen yet to this day increasing if thou doe but consider that the hard and stonie hearts being continually vvatered vvith the svveete and heauenly devv of Gods most fatherly admonitions forethreatnings from day to day dropping dovvne by his messingers rising earlye is rather hardened then any whit mollified or humbled So that neither the fearfull signes in heauen and other creatures as it were by the breach of nature weeping ouer vs nor the horrible howling and quaking of the earth trembling and fearing vnder vs hath as yet brought forth anye further sorrowe of our sinnes then that being amazed and astonished at the suddaines woondring at the straungenes and for a time while our heartes did beat lightly sorrowing at the fearfulnes thereof we made a shew as though we would haue turned to the Lord but alas we soone became like the children of Israell vvho beeing put in feare with the greate terrour which God shevved in pronouncing the Lawe in mount Syna did promise to heare obey Moses vvho being but fortie daies and fortie nights absent from them and for them vvith the Lord they fel avvay to their owne imaginations Since this hath the Lorde vvith straunge sicknesses at diuers times diuersly visited vs in our bodies yea our very hearts haue bene smitten vvith the fear of foraine practises yet vvho is it that hath rightly ackovvledged the hand of the Lorde Aboue all other thinges this is to be soberly vvaied with the equall ballaunce of an vpright conscience that euen novv on the one side the common enemy to the state and Church of God among vs hath very villanously and traiterously vovved himselfe to put out the happy light of this most peaceable kingdome euen by desperate and slauishe bloud-suckers allured and besotted vvith the fayre and favvning face of a man hayred like a VVoman of these Locustes the Iesuites who haue stinges in their tailes beeing like vnto Scorpions to take away the precious life of our moste gratious Queene ELIZABETH our most dear soueraigne the ioy and peace of all this Land the Lord for his Sonnes â—ake continue her blessed dayes among vs and coÌ„found al their horrible practizes on the other side like as it was in Hierusalem vvhen Titus besieged it vvhat little faith and true loue euen from the tankard-bearer to men of high degree he that seeth any thing must needes behold and tremble But O that I vvere able to povvre oute my very heart and that riuers of vvaters mighte flovv out of mine eyes that I might sufficiently bevvaile the desolation of Sion among vs yea I coulde vvishe that my life though it vvere by a thousand deaths might redeeme the breaches of the Church of God among vs. VVhose hart doth not bleede to thinke that in so peaceable daies so blessed a time vnder so Godly and religious a Princesse euen when the fire of our neighboures most rufull miseries doth flame about our eares yea and that the Lorde hath almoste drawne out his vvrathfull svvord against vs euery man follovveth the pride couetousnesse vvhoredome drunkennesse and lustes of his own heart and no man remembreth Ioseph The barres are filled vvith pleadinges and the streetes are full of the cries of the poore fulnes of meat and contempt is among vs and vvho considereth Yet if this our sin vvere only against men and not against God there migh be some hope But vvhen the mouth of the blasphemous svvearer is not tied vp the handes of the idolatrous generation of Atheiestes prophane persons be not chained VVhen the moste holye and precious vvorde of God is manifestlye contemned the ioyfull and heauenly tydings of saluation so negligently and vngratefully troden vnder foote the true and faithfull messengers pursued atained and diuers wayes afflicted then if the olde worlde for malitious imaginations Sodom and Gomorrha for pride fulnesse of meate and vnmercifulnesse If IerusaleÌ„ for abusing Gods prophets wilfulnes were wofully distroyed vvhat may wee poore careles people look for if we do not repent but as it is almost vniuersally feared speedy ruine vtter desolation O ye shepherds
of Israel be wise and vnderstand kisse the sonne least he be angry seeke the Lorde whilste he may be founde make attonement with him rest yee on God and follow his wayes For the eyes of the Lord behold all the earth to shew him selfe strong with them that are of perfect hart toward him And you ye reuerend fathers which take vpon you to rule the sterne of God his ship to your consciences be it appealed whether you thrust not out of your brethren faithful skilful marriners nourishing the idle vnfit wherby it is come to passe that thousands of soules are like to be drowned Let be appeled vnto your cōsciēces whether this your dealing be not the only cause that this church of England hath suffred such disquietnes and whether you ar not folowers of such as haue bin disturbers of the churches in other countries cōpare I pray you your cause with their cause and your proceding with their proceeding as namely let the practises of the diuines of PERGA in Germany for the maintaining of the errour of consubstantiation and vbiquity of Christe his bodie be compared with your striuing against the wholesome disciplin of Christ they were few as namely about six one bare the cheefest svvay you are not so many as that for your willes all the Churches should be troubled in England they helde the foundation and so doe you they had to doe with their godly brethren and so haue you they shrowded themselues vnder the shadovve of moste famons men as of Luther and Melancthon and so do you euen of moste blessed martyrs and very learned fathers they hauing tried diuers wayes to establish their errors at length deuised a subscription to a book called Liber concordiae thereby to drawe a secrete allovvance of that which openly they could not so vvel set one foote You after many molestations and vexations of your brethren euen to the turning avvay of many good schollers godly affected from the study of diuinity haue at the lēgth contrary to allavv of God and man offered violence to the consciences of your brethren by a forced subscription they first won the magistrat and made him their pretence vvhere their subtilty vvas espied and I pray God it be not layd to your charge for your like dealing pretences the Magistrates vvere hardly dravvne to like of their purpose maner of proceding so am I perswaded that yours cannot long bee couered they pretended vnity and intituled their subscription a Booke of Concord and by that meanes made great discord and dissention you cry out for conformity and good order and nothing lesse is the issue of your proceedings you cry the peace of the Churche and vvho knovveth not that if you vvoulde be humble to God and louing to your brethren and discharge your duetye to her Maiesty but that these stumbling blocks and meanes of dissention might long ago haue bene remooued For vve are assured that as the Magistrates vvith them did somevvhat staye their fury so if her Highnesse of her Godly disposition and accustomed clemencye vvith her honourable Counsellers had not bene some Bridle to your vnvvise indeuors there vvould hardly haue bin ere this time any peace for a faithfull minister But how proceeded they vvhat did they obtaine Euen by feare and authority they forced some to subscribe some they woone by faire vvords to some they granted in secreat limitatiō which after they in open denied some hauing subsci bed aftervvarde vvith great sorrovve and anguishe relented some they remooued from their charges and some they continued vvith long and variable molestation and finallye this vvas the good they brought to passe that the people were distracted many churches vntaught great broiles confusion in many places So I wold to God that euery of those that I may not say vvorse vvere not too too true in you onely let it be appealed vnto your conscience that you suspended and depriued them whom by lavv you ought to haue first resolued or endeuored your selues to haue so don and that by articles interrogatory you vvēt about indeed intangled some of your brethrē vvith that pretence of law which othervvise seemed to be vvanting And vvas this either charitable to your brethren or agreeable to iustice to your aduersary meete in a Bishop to those of his charge that one should be punished before his cause be equally heard And that hee may not haue a copye of the thinges layde to his charge but be driuen vpon an oth to ansvvere sodainly being depriued in a chamber to be sent avvay vvithout anye certayne knovvledge of the causes of his depriuation Let all men iudge hovv this may beseme Christian Bishops and graue fathers But hovv haue you made vnity conformity euen as one vvould open a doore to al horrible cōfusion vprore if by the merciful prouidence of God it had not beene staid and preuented It is high time therefore for you to repent and to shewe your selues as true Elders casting downe your crovvnes before the Lambe It is hard for you to kicke against the prick Remember vvhat is written If the euill seruant shall say in his hart my Master doth deferre his comming and begin to smite his fellowes and to eate and drinke with the drunken that seruants master will come in a day vvhen he looketh not for him giue him his portion vvith hypocrites there shal be vveeping and gnashing of teeth And all ye the inhabitantes of this lande turne yee to the Lord before it bee too late humble your selues before the throne of his mercye let euerye one chaunge his heart and amend his ovvne vvaies that the Lorde may haue pittye vppon vs and our enimies preuaile not againste vs. Pray yee for the peace of this Lande they that loue the Lorde cease not crying till he haue mercy vppon vs And let the remembraunce of our blessed soueraigne be in all your supplications that by the continuaunce of her happy prosperous reigne his glorious Gospell may shine more and more as in the dayes of king Iosias in brightnesse beauty among vs. And let this little treatise bee vnto thee gentle and Christian reader as a light and profitable glasse from day to day to looke in that it may be a meanes to teach thee and stirre thee vp to praye for and to seeke by all lawfull quiet and Godlye meanes the refourmation of some things in our Church For it is not the purpose thereof as God knoweth to minister matter of ciuill contention or that any man shoulde reioyce in the strife of brethren but with as much care as could be tendring the peace of the church to make apparant simply and briefly the truth of godlinesse in the thinges mentioned in this book according to the worde of God And here vve desire all men and you the reuerende Fathers of this land all godly brethren to whom this may come to iudge charitably of this
contayne And the same authour DE PRESCRIPT ADVERS HERET We may not giue our selfe the liberty to bring in any thing that other men bring of their will we haue the Apostles for Authours which themselues brought nothing of their owne will but the Discipline which they receiued of Christ they deliuered faythfully to the people Which sentences seeing they can not be vnderstoode of the circumstaunces must be taken of the Substantiall poyntes which wee haue declared So the same Authour speaking of the like matter EPISTOLA LIB 1. EPIST 8. It is adulterouse it is wicked it is sacriligious whatsoeuer is ordayned by humaine fury that the diuine disposition shoulde be violated To the lyke effect LIBERIVS the Romane Bishop requyreth of the Emperour To leaue the trueth as it is in this behalfe or else to make all newe THEODORET in the sixeteene Chapiter of the seconde booke of the Ecclesiastical history which their iudgment shall be moste manyfestly auouched in the particular parts of this discipline of God which followe And thus much for the first and moste generall point which giueth both light and strength vnto the rest Now because him selfe willeth the particuler plat to be layed and prooued in the particulers which hath long ago beene done in many bookes and namely in the booke of Ecclesiasticall Discipline which hath receiued no answere as yet as whatsoeuer on their side of any worthinesse hath seene the light hath beene aunswered it shal be very profitable both to aunswere him and to maintaine the trueth in those particulers wherein hee seeketh to vndermine the same and first of the generall property of the Offices and then of the Offices themselues Of Election with consent of the people COncerning Election the wordes of this answerer be these Pag. 83. I doe thinke verily that in no Church the whole number of the people are permitted to haue a free Election of their Pastor c. Pag. 88. Also her Maiestie being the head member of this church whether she shall be alowed a voice by her highnes proctor among the people of one parish alone or in al parishes in the realm in chosing their minister what voice whether a negatiue coūtermāding al others or no or whether her highnes shal haue no suffrage therein at all Both which if they be not to the derogation of her highnesse prerogatiue royall let indifferent and wise men iudge And a little before in the same page I will only put this great canonist in minde of the 13. chap. of the counsell of Laodicea which doth forbid these elections by the multitude or people which as Origin sayth is pricked forwarde or caried away with clamors fauour or rewarde And to the same effect page 97. Item page 99. he obiecteth thus So that by this reckoning men women and children for all the faithfull bee interested shall haue voyces in election of their Ministers If any dissent all must be dashed if we followe that rule Againe page 100. For his flocke is but an handfull in comparison of hypocrites and many are called but few are chosen neither are al true beleeuers always indowed with such measure of wisedome and discretion as that they are able to sounde the aptnesse of a man in learning for the ministery nor yet haue all so profited in true mortification as that they can weane them-selues from those disordered affections which cleaue fast to euery one of vs either more or lesse so long as we remaine in this world and therefore in such cases the mo that do deal in any actiō the more disorderly troublesome for the most part it falleth out to be To the seconde I say it contayneth a promise of such quietnesse and peaceable issues of this populer election as if you turne ouer ecclesiasticall hystories neuer or seldome hath happened but the clean contrary And a little after Now it had beene very requisite that our Authour for the appointing of these democratical elections the better vnto vs should with proofe out of scripture for euery particuler haue shewed whether Women or children of some reasonable discretion shoulde haue voyces in the election of their Minister whether he should be chosen by all by the greater part or by the better part Whether the wiues voyce shoulde bee accounted seuerall or but one with her husbande or whether shee mght discent from her husband or the father from the sonne Whether the Patron not dwelling in the Parish shall haue a voyce or dwelling there but a single voyce Whether the greater number of voyces shall bee accounted in respect of all the Electors or onely in respect of him which is to bee chosen hauing more voyces then anye other hathe Whether all absent shall bee accounted to discent or to assent Whether sicke men or other necessarily imployde that would come and cannot maye sende the Proctor beeing no Paryshioner or compromit their voyce to a Parishioner Item Page 94. Discoursing largely about the places of Scripture alleadged to this purpose He sayth that course of election mentioned in the Actes was not vndertaken for satisfying anye expresse commaundement by Christ but vpon an especiall occasion of the mutiny of the Greeks against the Hebrewes Againe in that page 94. that of the Actes speaketh of Deacons onely and is not read elsewhere in all poynts to haue been obserued either in chosing of an Apostle Act. 1. of Ministers Acts. 2. or of Bish Titus 1. There also the whole multitude made choise without the Apostles who mēt therby to auoid al suspicion of corrupt dealing Which two circumstaunces no man will I hope require in the chosing eyther of a Bishop or a Minister especially that the Bishop and other of the Cleargie shall bee debarred from any stroke in that action seeing therein there cannot be the lyke cause of suspicion Also the Apostle calleth them togeather and prescribed vnto them what they shoulde doe in that poynt of externall policie and that according to the present occasion offered without any prescript worde but onely by the instinct of Gods spirite Further that the Apostles set out the qualitie of the men to be chosen but tied them to no certayne forme of election to be obserued neither doe we reade what forme of election they then vsed Againe that the Disciples were to looke out and chose such as they thought fitte to be trusted with the Church-stocke but the Apostles reserued to them-selues the appoynting of them to their office if they should be founde to be such as were described Moreouer that the Deacons were appoynted for the further ease of the Apostles in some part of their function Lastly that the disciples presented them to the Apostles censures who by imposition of handes did as it were consecrate and authorize them to the function of Deaconship Now if by this act our authour mind so hard to curbe vp al churches as that he will accuse thē to giue a counterbuff to the holy ghost which in their ordinations
doe not agree herewith in all circumstaunces or that he will tell vs that something extraordinary was here in this action not to bee followed then must hee shewe by direct Scripture what was ordinary and what was extraordinary and must reconcile other places of Scripture concerning like action which doe not agree in all poyntes with this In the first of the Actes two were presented one is chosen by lot and no imposition of handes heere seuen are chosen the manner not set downe by the multitude and being presented to the Apostles they all appoynt them and lay their handes on them In the 14. of Actes Paule and Barnabas are sayde Chirotonesasthai autois presbuterois and to haue fasted but no mention is made of imposion of handes heere all the Apostles did appoynt thē Hous katastesomen In the first to Titus he onely is willed to appoint priestes Hina catasteses presbuterous according as Paule prescribed vnto him Nay let him shewe vnto me any two refourmed Churches of diuers nations iumpe in all circumstaunces heereaboutes or anye one of them which permitteth this action without intermedling of the cheefe Pastours vnto all the Disciples or multitude of beleeuers in the sayde Church which yet haue an interest in hauing a good Minister but as I take it the cheefe swaye and moderating of such actions are in all other refourmed Churches in suche men to whome this trust is especially recommended And hath not likewise for auoyding of sundry inconueniences the whole Churche and Realme of Englande by Parliament whereunto euery man in the eye of the law is saide to haue consented reposed this trust in a fewe chosen men of ecclesiastical functiō Euen M. Beza him selfe concerning the place of the Actes doth say There is no cause why hereof anye man shoulde prescribe anye speciall rule but if the conscience be vpright it will be easie to set downe what is expedient according to the circumstaunces of tyme and places The reply vnto the former words Although the aunswerer in this large and tediouse discourse hath brought no new matter in substance which hath not alreadie beene sufficiently refelled so as no new encounter by publike writing as a supply hath beene made against the same yet shall it not be without fruite to the reader First to note out his tumultuous and insincere dealing his contrarietie with him selfe his agreement with the Papistes and then hauing particulerly layd◠open the nakednesse of his seuerall obiections briefly as before to set downe the plaine simple trueth out of the Scripture His tumultuous and insincere dealing appeareth in that pretending to haue greatlye sifted the wrytinges of this controuersie and to haue exact knowledge of the orders of reformed Churches in this behalfe hee is not ashamed in stead of incountringe with the truth to frame him selfe an vnknowne aduersary that is in steed of ouerthrowing the consent of people in Church-elections to make warre against a meere populer Election not gouerned with the fore-direction of the Elders which hath no ground in the scriptures and was neuer maintained as him selfe confesseth but by Anabaptistes and in steede of manly buckling with the substantiall pointes of Church-election with the foreleading of the Presbytery with the due consent of the people cowardly to betake himself vnto the changeable circumstances of the same as who should present the Elders or the people howe the people shoulde signify their consent by lifting vp their handes or otherwise by themselues or by proctors and diuers such other Which in the particuler answere following shall be declared howe according to the word of God they may vpon diuers circumstances be diuersly carried His contrariety to him felfe is apparant by these three partie-coloured assertions First that the people did chose without the Apostles Secondly they were to choose but the Apostles reserued to themselues the appointing of thē to their office if they shold be found to be such as were described Thirdly that the people presented them to the Apostles censures For that hee sayth they chose without the Apostles is directly contrary to that he sayth they presented them to the Apostles Censures so that their Election was to be disanulled and made none vnlesse by the examination of the Apostles they were founde aunswerable to their description His agreement with the papists and namely with the Romish Remists Testament doth notably appeare in that they appoynting as he doth the fift verse of the 1. of Titus to the consent of the people in the Election of their Minister they doe more breefly but as fully and plainly and with more curtesy to the trueth set downe both his assertions reasons and auncient Testimonies in these fewe words following And here it seemeth that he did not only consecrate them whom the people had elected before but him selfe also made choyse of the persons no mention being heere made of any other election populer which though it vvere long vsed in the primitiue Church yet for diuers causes and specially for continuall tumults partialities and disorders which Saint Augustine much complaineth of in his time was iustly taken away and other better meanes of their designement appointed See concil Laodic cap. 12. 13. So much the Papists Again how he iumpeth with the spirite of these Jesuites sauing that still they yeelde more to the trueth then he in saying That the Apostles shewed the people what to do without any prescript worde but onely by the instinct of Gods spirite may appeare by their words which they vse vpon the like occasion of Peter in their annotation on the 15. verse of the 1. Chapter of the Actes Which Peter saie they did not vpon cōmaundement of Christe written but by suggestion of God his spirit and by vnderstanding of the Scriptures of the old Testamēt to that purpose So far the papists And thus much generallye of his discourse Now of his particuler obiections the first is that he thincketh in no Church the whole number of people to haue free election of their Pastor If by free election he meane the due consent of the people either he speaketh against his knowledge or he knoweth not that he pretendeth seeing their confessions other their writinges and practize do in the knowledge of all those which know any thing in this matter euidently conuince him as may appeare by the quotations in the margent If he meane that the people should beare the whole swaye without the gouernment and direction of the Elders hee misseth the marke whereat hee aymeth Concerning the Queenes Maiesties prerogatiue royall which he would gladly oppone against the cōsent of the people in Church-elections First he could not be ignorant but that all acknowlege that the Christian magistrat as a principal member of y e congregatiō where he is ought to haue an interest in y e election answerable to his place aswel for aduise as consent Secondly the supreme magistrate according to the high authority which God hath committed vnto him ouer all
sauing Priests of the Seigniory would be the the first weary of it For if I knowe their disposition they are as vnpatient as any men to bee at controlment and moste of all by a poore Minister It hath alwaies bene the practise of y e subtile Serpent who that hee might vndermine the authorye of Gods Embassadours and bring the Messengers of the most highest vnto disgrace to lift vppe some who neglectinge the moste essentiall duetyes of a Pastoure and Elder in feeding the flockes and being a Pattern in their whole life and example vnto them are wont to climbe into the ambitious throne of exercising a vsurped ecclesiasticall Dominion and a Lordship ouer their fellow-ministers that whilste by their place and pompe they might amaze the people as beeing men of great learning and wisedome and might also by their authority make the poore Ministers as the aunswearer sayth Priuat Ministers to speake when they wil wryte to what they list and to be their Commissaries cryer y t is their mās man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure hee might also bring to passe that which the Prophet Jeremy complayneth of in both The Prophets prophesie for reward and the Priestes exercise dominion * by their meanes and my people loue it so and what will they doe in the ende Which we see hath not onely won much vnto the cause of Sathan in popery but also it keepeth much power vnto him amongest those who do professe the Gospell For by this meanes it commeth to passe that they will goe 5. mile to heare a Lord preach when they will hardly come to Church to heare their owne Pastour By this meanes they becomme so irreuerent or rather sawcie with their Pastour that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke then for the bleating of a sheepe by this meanes they maye call him before a Commissarye a lay-man as he speaketh they may fetch out Excommunications thicke and three-folde if hee appeare not and so not only not haue him not to exercise dominion ouer them which Peter forbiddeth but also be Lordes ouer their Pastour beeing but priuate personnes which the lawe of reason disaloweth Which pollicy of Sathan although it become odious in the sight almost of all men but especially of true and louing subiects who are greeued that some not onelye exercise Lordship ouer theire fellow-ministers but also pearche so high as they pray vpon the right of princes whilste they forsoothe may not eate flesh in Lent or on a Fryday but by a Byshoypes lycense yet this man who hath giuen his tong leaue to reuile the Ministers with diuers slaunders reproches cannot content himselfe with that but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christe In which respect wee account our selues bounde by the Canonicall obedience which we owe vnto y e Archbishop of our soules Jesus Christ according to y e Canons which he hath made in his worde first to shew how this man disordereth y e questiō according to his maner voweth consent as it seemeth with the Jesuits in these his assertions proofs and then hauing discussed his allegations to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture and worthy witnes of ancient times In the entrance therfore the Answerer is not content only to fly from y e issue whether according to the word of God the minister shold exercise the censures of the Church according to y ◠word of God which with vs is executed by Commissaries meere lay-men vnto another thing namely what inconueniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring but also to set vpon a matter neuer affirmed by vs that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing His agreement with the Papists may appeare manifestly by their Annotation the 4. ver of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their wordes are these Though he commanded the Acte shoulde be done in the face of the Church as such sentences and censures bee at this day executed also yet the iudgement and authority of giuing sentence was in himselfe and not in the whol multitude as the Protestants and populer sects affirm Wherfore seeing his cause is that which is betweene the sworne enimies of GOD and his Church we are not to fear but the truth which hath preuayled so often against them shall also carry the Garland from this newe Wrestler His first reasons are drawne from the inconueniences which hee thinketh will come vnto the Church by this means as requiring rather like a Ciuilian not a diuine what is safe then what is according to God his wil Amongst which he demaundeth whether the Authour had not rather be vnder the forme that nowe is then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister which I aunswere by another Question why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equall authority of an Eldership vpon causes determined by God his worde in a small volume be more infinite then y e Commissaries who cannot but proccede according to the infinite and contradictorye Canons of their Law who can excommunicate vpon non apparaunce for a matter of 12 pence Is it liker that one Minister shal haue many elders more tied to his wil pleasure then one Commissary his own affections Againe may not their appeale from one Eldership to a Conference or assemblie of many Ministers and Elderships be as safe as from the Commissary to another Byshop And if it were granted that the Byshop should haue authoritye in euerye particuler Churche yet with the Ministers consent vnlesse he will iustle one lawe against another why were it not more reasonable safe then as it is nowe in the Byshoppe alone Seeing then the Minister might haue more particuler knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Byshop and yet if hee were rash the Byshops wisedome might stay him And if the Byshoppe shoulde suspende the Minister vppon abuse of his authoritye yet hee were not at the same poynt he was before because then they which did not abuse their authoritye mighte exercise it still And if the Byshoppe dwell in the Parish and had preheminence yet hee shoulde not draw the execution of Discipline to himselfe onely but to holde it in common with him But what doe I answering his cauelles agayuste the Lawe seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soone aunswere his cauill in this behalf For the fountayns which are in his Booke already are not yet dammed vp by the answerer Wherefore I passe to his incōuenience which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in y ◠Minister which is What if hee vpon want of discretion doe excommunicate some greate peere of his Parish vppon some surmized cause whose indignation may turne the whole church to great mischeefe To this I answere that vnlesse the Byshops seat aboue a Pastors be so sanctified as Hierome sayth by humain constitutions as that it can alwaies proceede with
e Church of France is ridiculous For thogh they say that Ministers Elders and Deacons are for Church discipline whereby discipline they mean y e order of y e Church generally yet in the gouernment of the Presbytery they ioyne onely the Elders with the Ministers and to the Deacons they giue nothing but the care for the poore and to giue aduise as the French Churches say is not onely graunted to Deacons but vnto all as â—uâ—re occasion shall serue Concerning the difference of widowes T. C. saith Where the conditions fall out which are set downe in 1. Tim. â— there they ought according to that rule to be established Wherin he agreeth with Daneus and the booke of Discipline doth not deny but that where there are such women and causes they maye and ought to bee so founde of the Church and are to serue the Church in such seruice as they shall put them to onelye he findeth no one peculier and proper seruice wherevnto they are tyed but are to bee imployed by the Deacons vnder whom they are contayned and in all this there is no difference worth the speaking of much lesse contradiction In the next y e question is only of a circumstance how long they shold continue wherein if Berna differ somewhat from vs what is that vnto the matter in hand what hurt to the substaunce of the cause The next obiection doth aunswere it selfe that as they vsed them then in some respects as the Deacon to Catechise and such like which they thought the straightes of the Church draue them vnto â—o otherwise for their office we do see they do in their confession acknowledge That the church must he gouerned with the policie which Christ hath ordayned that the offices of elders and Deacons are part of that policie Also y t it is a part of his Gospel is confirmed to be perpetuall to haue such a gouerment in their publike writing to y â— ende As fond is the next out of Daneus which declareth that although the Churches after the Apostles chose the Elders and Deacons to be perpetuall yet it also sayeth there is no such thing defined of in the Scriptures which proueth that it is a circumstaunce which may be altered according to the estate of the Church In the next he quoteth Bucer as repugnaunt to T. C. but nameth no place where we shall finde it Daneus doth not contrarie him but acknowledging it the order of God doth onely shew what was done in smal churches adioyned to the great and populous there beeing sufficient persons in the one which were not at the first in the other notwithstanding the Apostles ordayned it Church by Church Actes 14. And euery Church muste haue them to send for Jam. 5. and the causes of them which are to be assistaunt to the Pastor to administer the ecclesiastical censures to watch ouer the people and admonishe them are a like euery where Now if the Churches be too little the bodyes of seuerall congregations ought so to be ordred as they may haue all the members which Christ hath set for the perfection and beauty af his body vpon all the wals of Hierusalem there must be watch-men and vpon Euery habitation of mount Syon vppon her meetinges and Congregations there must be this presence of God as a cloude by day and a fire by night For looke what places they can bring for the perpetuity and for the right of euerye Church for a Pastour The same or lyke may be brought for the Elder Whereof it commeth that Ignatius sayde as he is alleadged before No Church can stande without her Eldership And Iustinus made his apologie wherein this Eldership is mentioned for all Churches Wherefore whatsoeuer Daneus graunt was done for a tyme till the Churches might conuenientlye bee brought to a conuenient stature neither beeing too high nor too short and to be beautifull bodyes neyther wanting a member nor hauing one too much that muste not preiudice the institution of Christ which Daneus confesseth When he sayth they must looke to the Church house by house and publikely also to the whole and to the sicke Of two Consistories in a city it may be he hath reade of but in one particular Church of two Ecclesiasticall Senates I will then beleeue it when he bringeth vs a more certaine direction then yet hee hath done to finde it and if they did seeing the inconueniences as he sayeth bring it to the right order what preiudise is that to the trueth In the next poynt of counsels there is no contrarietie betweene the admonition and the French Churches order For they say they may definitiuely define causes in a prouintiall Synode although I can not find those wordes by his quotation And the admonition saythe so except there be a generall counsell and they will haue it there For there is no reason if they will order it fitly at hoam to carry it to a generall counsell And I pray are these two so contrary They may ende it and they may ende it except they thinke it better to referre it to a generall counsel In passing from this difference to the next he setteth peremptorilie that it is manyfest that there is no certayne forme of electing Ecclesiasticall officers vsed by the Apostles but reason he sheweth none whereby it maye appeare So that if his Doctorship saye it we muste take it from him as vndoubtedly as if he had it by reuelation For confutation of which folly we may say thus much That seeing in the Ministers examination is to be had of knowledge of doctrine of ripe nesse to expound the Scriptures and in a worde of aptnes to teach it is manyfest that as the gouerning of this action belongeth to the Eldership and is to be done with publike prayers that besides the gouerning Elders there must be ministers who maye be able throughly to iudge and examine to conceiue publike prayer and to deliuer to the Church by doctrine exhortation whatsoeuer is expedient in this case Which thing is euident not onely by the perpetuall reason of it but also by the constant and vnchaungeable practise of the Apostles in the first of the Actes in the sixth of the Acts in the 14. in the 1. Tim. 3. of Tit. 1. Onely it is to be noted that it is not committed to one no not so much as to ordayne much lesse to elect but the ordination is by the Eldership And Timothy could not carry the matter away but had a charge for his owne part To keepe him-selfe pure and not to communicate with other mens sinnes whatsoeuer other Elders did in this case Now as this order is certayne and vnuariable both in the reason and practise of it so the circumstaunces whether it shall be by 6. or by 7. Ministers by a conference only or by a synode sauing where it may be the more the better is left to the disposition of the church Wherefore it is
in Fraunce the substaunce of Discipline shall be out of the worde confirmed and the controuersies betweene vs equally and orderly decided We will also be bounde to subscribe as they are His first quotation out of the Adm. doth set down that in a different letter which is not there to be found Which practize is done onely to disgrace vs vniusâ—ly with the Magistrate The other two sentences though we iudge them somewhat hardly set downe yet they must be charitably interpreted according to the course of their Booke the first of the trueth of Discipline not of doctrine the other of Ministers so called and inabled as God his worde doth allowe The rest is worth no aunswere the matter beeing handled before and Gualter being a party with you against M. Iewell and M. Nowel in that point though againste you in the question of Church election Now in stead of this heape of disagreementes which are at one with them selues let him accorde these following drawne from the wryters who are of his iudgement No man for any crime is to be secluded from any law fall vocation if he repent him and become a new man and there be no generall commaundements contrary herevnto But this doctrine is consonant to the whole course of the Gospell Yet we all hold that Traytours are not to be admitted Byshops or of the Queenes Guarde They maintain this speach of Ambrose on the 4. of the Ephes In the beginning it was permitted to euery one to preach the Gospel baptize and expound the Scriptures but when the Churche was enlarged certain Parishioners were appoynted and goucrnors and other officers ordayned in the Church Yet now Ministers maye not preach without a lisence It is defended by the former Booke that The worde of God is as effectuall when it is read as when it is preached and reading is preaching yet the Booke of Common-prayer preferreth Preaching before Homilies And himselfe sayth that Preaching is the most excellent meanes to ingender fayth This man condemneth and reiecteth Doctours as new yet the former booke Page 425. sayth that by auncient wryters A Catechistes office was necessarie in the Church and distinct from the Pastour The same booke fol. 700. in the marginall note hath Nothing ought to be reade vnder the name of Scripture but the Canonicall Contrary to the booke of Common prayer which appoynteth the Apocripha to be reade vnder the name of holy scripture Iewel saith that for one bishop to haue authority ouer an other is neyther by Christ Peter nor Paule nor by any right of God his word Yet they do by preaching and wryting still maintaine it by the examples of Peter Timothy and Titus In the aunswere to the authority of Peter Martyr it is sayde that in our Church religion is onely reformed to the quicke But the examiner sayth they see weightyer things in the Church wherat they may be greeued as other good men are Now we come to his questions which althogh they he captious and therefore by lawe they are not to bee aunsweared yet to shewe our sincerity in that which we holde we will make him an aunswere To the first we saye Discipline touching the substaunce is fully described out of the worde of God in the booke of discipline the treatise of ecclesiastical gouernment and in the most of the soundest writers of our time The second is answered partly by the former partly by this treatise In steed of this we aske him what be y â— writings which haue coÌ„futed by the scripture all those foresayd godly learned writings To the third we aunswere it is no sounde diuinity to exclude Christian Princes from their gouerment in Church-matters Concerning Excommunication he hath his answere before To the two other clawses let the Papists answere for they are malitiously imputed vnto vs. And we demaund of him whether it be sound diuinity that when the Prince will eate flesh in Lent or do such like shee must haue a Dispensation from an Archbyshop And that the writes of his Courts euen in causes ciuill and matters of instaunce should be in his owne name and not in the name of her most excelleÌ„t Maiesty The fourth is aunswered in the Treatise of the Eldership And we aske of him what pregnant proofe he hath either from scripture or Father that Ecclesiasticall Gouernment shoulde be exercised in a wholle Diocesse by a Chancelor or Commissarye beeing a meere lay-man To the 5. and 6. both wee aunswere That rebaptization is condemned by the Worde of God and that those hee speaketh of be maried folkes And wee require him to prooue by the Worde of God that in case of the necessity which they pretend a Woman may baptize And to prooue by the same that men may be forbidden to mary in Lent or such like times The seuenth is aunswered in that to the 5. and 6. And we demaunde of him how they can prooue it lawfull to admit a Popish priest fallen from the Gospell and still vnapt to teach To the eyght we aunswere there is the like reason of the Supper and of Baptisme And we require him to prooue by the Worde of God that a Deacon may baptize and when he hath proued that let him proue why hee may not minister the Supper also To the ninth we answere that to the Ministers there may be diuersity of rewardes giuen so long as none haue to little nor any too much And we require him to prooue by the Word of God that a Minister of the Gospell may carry the pompe of men of estate To the tenth we aunswere as is set downe in the Treatise that a Minister should be apt to teach We would haue him proue that any other may preache who is not apt to teach To the Eleuenth we answere affirmatiuely and require him to prooue by the Scriptures that an Archbyshop may put Preachers to silence for not subscribing to that which is not required by the lawe To the twelfth we aunswere it is not lawfull for one to be thrust out of his Ministery for shewing modestly in his sermons the inconuenience of vnleauened breade in the Lords Supper that all vsury as wee speake it whither biting or nibbling is vnlawfull And we require of him to prooue by the Worde of God that it is tollerable to suffer Drunkardes whoremongers ignoraunt men of occupation in the Ministry and for not subscribing where Law doth not enforce it or for the not vsing of some ceremonie to turne out godly learned Ministers And make a pitifull seperation of the Pastor and the flocke The Lorde giue vs to be of one minde and wherein we agree let vs proceede by the rule of loue FINIS Eccles 12. Iud. 9. Psalme 2. 2. Chro 16. 9 See admon ad lib. concord de mod agend Mat. 24. 48 Beza praefat before the new Testament Hermonia confess page 53. gal confess art 29. Genes 2.
woorke vvhich tendeth to no other end but that the truth being found we might al ioin togeather in godly peace an holy vnion to serue him ioifully together froÌ„ generation to generation The reasons which specially did cause this mater to be taken in hand are either in respect of the substaunce of seuerall points in question or of the time wherin they are brought in question For first considering that the question is not as the aunswerer would beare the world in haÌ„d as in publike sermons it is euery day vncharitably vpbraided about trifles things of no vvaight as of variable ceremonies matters of circumstances which yet are to be squared by the sacred Canons of holy Scripture but about matters of no small importance euen of the great and waighty cause of Christes kingdome by vvhat lavves and offices his heritage is to be gouerned protected that is of the whole Discipline of the Church of Christ whether it be to be ordered by the vncertayne and deceiueable waights of humane constitutions or by the infallible Oracles of Gods most holy testimonies And that the aunswerer doth very confidentlye challenge as thogh not only by vs but byal churches reformed in manye writinges verye well knowne he vvere not already aunsvvered that by the worde of God vve vvoulde prooue a certaine gouernement of the Church vnder the time of the Gospell and that this he doth very closlye and colourablie at his pleasure adding to and detracting from the question as in the treatise shall appeare and vvith smooth vvordes and artificial euasions though sometimes vvith more gaule then comelynes and more scoffing then substaunce labouring to cast a myst before the eyes of the Reader and to beare dovvn the cause with svvelling vvordes of vain ostentation And concerning the time seeing that novv by the meanes of the vnaduised stirre vvhich by the reuerende Fathers is made in this Church of England al the faythfull seruauntes of Christe Iesus are in some sort called to beare vvitnesse vnto the truth and that vvithout verye good grounde it vvere not meet that any reasonable thing shoulde be refused of such men as vve be not onely to satisfie the expectation of all men desirous to knovve the truth but also to discharge our dutie to our Lord and Master Iesus Christ and to her gracious maiesty and all her good subiectes vve coulde not keep the pen from paper but vvere as it were inforced to beare this necessary vvitnes to a truth not so much by the reason of man impugned and resisted as by manifest and plaine places of scripture to be approoued and confirmed and for the dayly profite of the Church most behoosefull of euery man to be rightly vnderstood and in euery Congregation vvith all reuerence and diligence to be practised and religiously obserued For what man indovved vvith the feare of God and a reuerent loue of his Prince continually beholding the diligent hand of the seditious papists to waxe stronger and stronger through the stopping of the mouths of the sincere ministers and so many I might say innumerable soules for whome Christe Iesus shed his moste precious bloude to remaine in miserable captiuity and bondage of blindnesse and ignoraunce the very chaine of darknesse and iniquity for lacke of teaching and instruction and these non-residents and blinde guides which in some sort make a pray of God his heritage to bee so cunningly vnder-propped and maintained and so many thinges of so euil nature in themselues so pernicious to the church of God so dangerous to the state of this commoÌ„ wealth so offensiue and burdenous to all people of any conscience and knowledge to be so mightily backed and defended what man I say hearing and seeing the daily and pitiful complaints of the poore people for lack of good pastors and of the reioycings of vvicked euill men in the trouble of the faithfull Ministers to the great dishonour of almighty God and contempt of many most wholsome Lawes by her most excellent Maiesty set foorth and established can be so carelesse and vndutifull as not to applye him-selfe in some sort or other that these great enormities may be detected and remooued Accept therfore gentle reader the godly labours which were employed in setting foorth this little Treatise thinke it not straunge that it commeth foorth so soone or so sodenly but take it as a stay an help vnto thee till some more larger discourse shalbe adueÌ„tured wherin the holy scripture is made the onely iudge of this coÌ„trouersy so much as coÌ„cerneth the reasons of the lavves of this land is nothing at al touched as wel because the purpose of this reply vvas to instruct the coÌ„science by the proper means thervnto ordayned of God as because the shortnes of time could not suffer any more the pen vvhich vvrote this is of an other profession vveigh vvell and examine the reasons here inserted vvith the iust and euen ballaunce of God his holy sanctuary and let thine eye be single in iudging and no doubt but thorovv God his grace though peraduenture the stile may be somevvhat harsh and euery point not so finely adorned with the flovvers of mans eloquence yet the plaine simple euidence of the truth euen in her nakednesse and proper beauty shal so shine and cast her bright beames into thy conscience that if thou reape not so much profite as vvere to be vvished at the least vvyse this cause may receiue more fauourable interpretation and be esteemed as a thing vvorthy of due consideration Thus hoping of the blessing of God tovvardes thee and of thy charitable receiuing of the labours vvhich were enterprised to do thee good I cease anye further to hold thine eyes from the vvorke it selfe moste humbly beseeching God euen the father of our Lord â—esus Christ to be mercifull vnto this land to giue vs speedy and vnfayned repentaunce to turne his plagues from vs to ouerturne and confound the diuilish and blouddy treacheries of all seditious popish and other traiterous vndermyners of the state to plant true and godly loue among vs and to set vp the kingdome of his sonne according to his vvorde to the prosperous continuance of the most honourable and peaceable estate of the Queenes highnes to the reioycing of all faithfull and true hearted subiectes and to the glorie of his moste holye name for euer Amen Faults escaped Page 32. line 12. for Nicodemia read Nicomedia pa. 43. lin 5. for would read should pa. 56. lin 6. for rotted read rotten pa. 80. l. 11. for from read after p. 91. l. 11. for by read of pa. 92. li. 1. after God read doth pa. 120. li. 7. for he read they pa. 105. li. 6. after vpon read vs. pa. 128 line 10. read exercise ceasing pa. 131. li. 20. for commit read commute pa. 133. li. 3. for railing read calling pa. 146. li. 1. for hast read his own heart pag. 157 li. 13. for trueth read fruite ⧠Of the certaine
forme of Ecclesiasticall Gouernment prescribed by the Word of God and perpetuall for all ages FOR as much as the purpose of this treatise is with all modesty and peace to giue cleare euidence to the trueth it was thought fittest for the cause and most profitable for the Christian Reader to set downe vnder certaine heades the seuerall assertions and reasons which are here and there scatteringly inforced by the answere to the Abstract against the seuerall braunches of the holye gouernement which Christ Jesus hath asigned for the ordinarie policie of his Church Amongest which that requireth the firste place which is the grounde of all the rest concerning the certaine forme of gouernement which he hath prescribed for his Church His wordes be these I doe therefore say and offer in the name of the learned to him or other to consider of that it is taken by vs for an vndoubted trueth the contrary whereof by no proofe we doe assure our selues can bee shewed that there are not set downe in perticuler by Scripture or by necessarie collection to be gathered all circumstaunces of pollicie gouernement Discipline and ceremonies necessary and vniformally to bee vsed in euery seuerall Church and that the Christian Magistrates and gouernours are not in the sayd former points wherof somthing is touched in Scripture of necessitie tyed to that precise forme that is there set downe but to the generall Doctrine concerning them to wit that al be done to edifying orderlye comely and such like page 33. And againe asking whether all reformed Churches are disciplinated alike he sayth Nay they neyther are can be nor yet neede so to be seeing it cannot be prooued that any set exact perticuler forme thereof is recommended to vs by the Worde of God pag. 58. And againe pag. 60. To the former assertion he addeth this reason For else how could the Primitiue Church without any prescript word I doe not onely say haue brought in a newe ceremonie but haue altered the Sabboth day by God appoynted at the first and being our Satterday to the first day of the week in the Scripture twise or thrise called the Lordes day and with vs Sunday or yet the time of receiuing the Sacrament of the Eucharist being according to the institution vsually receiued after Supper to haue it receiued as it is in the morning fasting In which assertions there is so little plaine dealing and so much vntruth as of y ◠one side they sauour of subtletie so on the other side they haue very smale taste of sound diuinitie For first when as the Question was of Discipline to be administred as the Lorde commaunded that is of the substantiall forme of Christes gouernement he carieth it to the ceremonies and circumstances of Discipline as if when the Apostle commaundeth to keepe the forme of wholesome doctrine one should aunswere it is not certaine because the circumstances rites times of it are variable Which also casteth a strong sent of the Romishe practize who to make a way to their additions and detractions in the matter of the Sacrament and otherwise flie vnto the circumstances of time number persons and such like Test Rem in annot John 6. verse 58. the which they say the Church may alter and chaunge The second subtletie is that when the state of the question is propoūded as that which is the difference betweene vs the verye poynt of it is so obscurely and doubtfully set down as one can hardly attaine vnto his meaning For when he saith the Magistrates are not in y e sayde former points tyed to the precise forme c. He leaueth it doubtfull whether by points are ment the particular circumstaunces of policy gouernment discipline and ceremonies which if they be he commeth no nearer the questions then thinges variable to thinges certaine and vnchangeable or whether he meaneth the thinges themselues to wit policie gouernment discipline which if he do then he is become an ouerturner of all the assertions of former diuines whatsoeuer For then if the Magistrate think it for order and comelines Ecclesiasticall censure shall be administred by ciuill persons layemen as he speaketh men may be excommunicated before they be summoned in a priuate corner not in the Congregation then the Magistrat may cause the Deacons forme to become the forme of the Bishop and the Biships forme the form of a Deacon Finally then the seuerall members of Christes bodye their formes and specificall differences maye be altered and changed as seemeth good vnto men then Princes maye ordayne Bishops as Bishoppes sometimes annoynt Princes Finally then the soueraigne Magistrates may them selues become Ecclesiasticall officers and Church-ministers which at once vndermineth not onelye the Church-discipline of God which we require to bee exact according to God his worde but also euen the formall destinction of offices censures and matters Ecclesiasticall which all other Churches and euen ours haue established are made arbitrarie and changeable seeing they are not tyed to the precise forme of these things It is palpable darknesse also which hee sayth that all Churches are not disciplinated alike because anye set and exact particuler forme thereof is not commended vnto vs in God his worde Which if he meane of the set forme of ecclesiastical gouernment all reformed churches acknowledge it either haue it or seek it and distinguish it in al their writings from the variable ceremonies or circumstances of the same as appeareth by y e places quoted in the margent if he meane it of circūstances of places times numbers and such like he calleth that to question which none euer made doubt of Nowe besides this confusion in propounding the Question the reasons of the assertion are full of vntrueth First the allegation of y e alteration of y ◠Saboth borowed from y ◠Jesuits annot Apo. 1. 10 sauing y ◠thei haue for shame limitted that which he left at large saying they did it w tout al cōmā-dement of Christ which they read of is not as he setteth downe iustifiable by y e Scriptures namely y ◠they did it without prescript cōmandement frō Christ For seeing the Apostles hauing by God his commaundement kept the Jewes Saboth for the weeke gone afore when the time of the alteration of the ceremony of that particuler day was come did for obseruation of the morall commaundement of celebrating one day in seuen ordaine and keepe the next day for the weeke following calling it and making it the Lordes day as the other was the Lordes Saboth it is manifest that when this cannot be altered without breache of the morall proportion of one in seuen that therein they had direction from Christe according to those words Teaching them to keepe what soeuer I commaund you Mat. 28. 20. If it be asked where in the Gospell this is commanded and prescribed of Christ let him shew the like of those which the Apostle speaketh of 1. Cor. 11 2. cap. 14. 37. Concerning the