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A17036 An ansvvere to Master Cartvvright his letter for ioyning with the English Churches: whereunto the true copie of his sayde letter is annexed. Browne, Robert, ca. 1550-1633.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603.; Harrison, Robert, d. 1585?, attributed name. 1585 (1585) STC 3909; ESTC S109433 77,571 102

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baptised of him yea among the Pharisces there were those that touching the righteousnesse which is in the lawe were vnrebukeable They were as it appeareth most of them Leuites openly called and authorised to preach by the Elders aud people in the Synagognes And surely that it is but a vaine exception which Master Cartwright maketh of the high Priest That he was made a yeerely officer and came in by Simonie into his office For Eleazar was made high priest while Aaron the high Priest yet liued And Zadok was made high Priest and Abiathar and his sonnes put from the priesthoode when as yet the couenant of the priesthoode pertained by the lawe vnto Abiathar and his house But necessities and iust occasions did oftentimes make change of the ceremoniall lawes and yet no corruption nor abuse came thereby Wherefore for aunswere I say that the priesthoode was not made a yeerely office but that by course euery yeere two priestes did execute the office And this seemed to be tollerable by the Lawe seeing that if one priest shoulde be sicke or letted by some greater occafions the other might be in his steade As wee shewed before that Eeleazar was chosen high Priest while Aaron yet liued and Zadok in Abiathars steade and yet were there not two high Priestes in the office at once but onely one at once was to execute the office Also there seemed to be much doubt and controuersie to which of the p●iestes the priesthoode did belong as also we may reade in Iosephus And therefore two chiefely standing for it there were two chosen to it And because the lawe of God did not suffer two at once to bee in the office they did succeede one another in the execution of the office Againe seeing they were of the sonnes of Aaron and called after the order of Aaron no doubt their calling was lawfull and good Otherwise if any at that time had bene lawfull high Priestes and yet not lawfully called as was Aaron then the Apostle woulde not haue set downe this for a generall trueth That no man taketh this honour vnto him selfe but he that is called of God as was Aaron Neither let him here shift off our answere by his fonde distinction of the essence of a priest and of a lawfull priest which before is refuted As for Symonie wherewith he chargeth the high Priestes hee can not prooue it against them For if the Romanes ouerruling them did grieuously exact their tributes and paiments both of Christ himselfe as we may reade in Matth and of the high priestes it was no more Symonie in the priestes then it was in Christ to pay them their exactions For the priesthoode was their right seeing it pertained vnto them being the sonnes of Aaron yet can not Master Cartwright prooue that they payed any monie when they tooke their right or if they did that they thereby bought their right and not rather payed an exaction which the Romanes demanded when they tooke their right But suppose that secretly they gaue bribes to the Romanes delt by Symonie yet that being hidden and not manifest to the people they were to be taken of men as lawfully called to that office For if the Lawe and common tribute exacted monie of them they might pay it as well as Christ. If the officers did exact any besides lawe they did it secretely lest they them selues should be condemned by lawe and so it is manifest that no symonie could be laid to their charge And therefore no maruaile though Christ bad the man shewe him selfe to the high Priest For before the high priestes became open persecuters there was a lawfull communion to be had with them But this communion was afterward broken and made vnlawfull through their open wickednesse Also it is false which Master Cartwright saith that Christ did reuerence the high Priest and gaue him accountes of his doctrine For he gaue him no accountes and answered him so roundly that one of the officers whiche stoode by smote him with a rodde Also his aunswere is false cōcerning that place in Hoshea that the Lord would refuse the priestes for being any more his priestes seeing they were without knowledge of which wordes he sayeth that the prophet rather giueth a rule to be followed in their election or deposition then howe farre they may be vsed Nay the Prophet there speaketh nothing of electing them or deposing them by men but rather of the plague or destruction that shoulde come vpon them yea hee sheweth that through the ignorance of the priestes all wickednesse and idolatrie reigned and therefore he saith that there shal be like people like Priest meaning that they shall haue a like destruction Now Master Cartwright dare not say that all abominable wickednes and Idolatrie reigning and the priests them selues being wicked idolaters I say he dare not affirme that they helde the couenant or were the people or church of God For before he hath said the contrary And howe then dare he say that such priestes were yet priestes vnto God and were not deposed from their priesthoode when as their owne wickednes and idolatrie did depose them For that whole chapter of Hoshea is altogether against their wickednesse and idolatrie And let M. C. knowe that our open grosse sinnes abuses being not curable by the discipline of the Church are as euill as Idolatrie as Samuel the Prophet doeth witnes saying that rebellion is as the sinne of witchcraft and transgression he meaneth trāsgression which is stoode in and wil not be mended is wickednes idolatry But this matter is made manifest before Now followeth the last part of his letter the last matter in controuersie as whether by communicating with a reading minister we do communicate with their impietie establish their ministerie M. C. herein doth more shamefully erre then if he should with the bishops altogether iustifie such reading ministers For he might better say they were lawfull ministers and that their ministerie were lawfull then that he should confesse them to be vnlawfull ministers yet iustifie that we may receiue them as hauing the essence and substance of ministers and partake in their wicked ministerie without impietie or establishing their But he may playnly see except his eies of vnderstanding be vtterly darkened that if any do vsurpe as traitors against her maiesty then they also that come vnder their vsurped rule and gouernment being once free from it are also trayters together with them So likewise those men vsurping a ministery which Christ neuer gaue them neyther sanctified to be in his Church both they doe wickedly and they also that wil come vnder theyr ministery doe establish theyr wicked ministery and partake with them in theyr impiety If a man of the winde sayth the prophet and false fellowe doe he saying I will prophecie vnto you of wine and of strong drinke he shall euen be the prophet of this people Yea why not
the name of God figured the visible Church of god so that this matter toucheth M. C. very neerely For if it be true that as all sacrifices then so all sacraments now are rebellion against the Lord being ministred without the visible Church of God then that sinne which he calleth a fault shalbe found to be more then a fault euen rebellion falling away from the Lord. And this is a sinne of execration euen abomination in the eies of the Lord to measure the visible church of god by a compasse of ground by a nūber of housholdes by slint of tythes tenthes as we see in our parishes For the place maketh not the church neither is the church or true religiō to be measured by the place as Christ him selfe teacheth vs for neither in the mountaine where the father worshipped neither yet at Ierusale the citie of god was God any more to be worshipped but the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit truth By which words Christ meaneth thus much first that the spirit trueth being shewed by the outward good profession declare the outwarde Church of God and not the places neither temples nor cities nor parishes For in whome we see the spirit that is the graces of the spitit by their outward good works and the trueth that is the lawes and word of Christ which is true to be kept obserued them only we must call the Church of God And therefore in Isaiah it was shewed before● that with those only which turne from iniquitie in Iacob will the Lord make his couenant euen his spirite which is vpon them and his words which he hath put in their mouth Secondly by those wordes Christ teacheth that al the Iewish ceremonies shuld be abolished because the chiefest euen Ierusalem and the Temple should be no more For the temple at Ierusalem circumcision were the chiefest How great the citie and the Temple were it appeareth by that prayer of Salomon 1. Kinges 8. 29. And by sundry other places Deuteronom 12. 11. Ierem. 3. 17. Ezek. 43. 7. c. And of circumcision Paul reasoneth with the Galatians That if they be circumcised they are bounde to keepe the whole ceremoniall lawe for it being one of the chiefest ceremonies if they still obserued it they should also obserue all the rest but if they reiected the chiefest they should also reiect all the rest And to that ende Christ reasoneth that seeing all things are nowe to be verified in spirit and trueth therefore all ceremoniall and superstitious worship shoulde cease As also Paul reasoneth That if they be led by the spirit they are not vnder the ceremonies of the lawe So then it appeareth that tithings because they were ceremonies belong not to the Church And because such abomination is committed by them namely the due planting and gathering of the church is hindred and the libertie of the Church for remouing euil ministers stopped they are euen the execrable things which Achan did steale For if the common wealth as it ought had long agoe taken from the ministerie those tenthes and Popish liuings then Iericho being once destroyed I meane the Antichristian churches once put downe had not so soone bene built againe but nowe such tythings benefices and Bishoprickes remaining they haue builded by them an other Iericho in steade of the first in deede somewhat differing from the first but as contrary to Gods church and holy citie as was the first yea and Master Cartwright also wil iustifie that execrable stealth of Achan and call Iericho I meane those woefull assemblies and Parishes the visible church and citie of God But cursed be the man before the Lord saith Ioshua that riseth vp and buildeth againe this citie Iericho he shall lay the foundation thereof in his eldest sonne in his yongest sonne shall he set vp the gates of it Satan is that enuious and malitious man which hath builded againe this citie his eldest sonnes were the first beginners of this lamentable state whome God did afterwarde scourge and cal to repentance in the time of Queene Marie and brake their enterprise and his youngest sonnes are these latter reformers whome God also will certainely plague except they repēt But to come againe to Master Cartwrights proofe let him not say that we count any assembly whether they haue a dumbe minister o● haue none to be the outwarde Churches of God except they keepe the couenant by the outwarde discipline and gouernement of the Church Further Master Cartwright saith that in such assemblyes the dumbe minister is not chiefe but Christ and that wee make nothing of the dumbe minister and yet will needes haue him to be the head of those Churches Indeede we make nothing of him concerning any goodnes that is by him for he helpeth nothing thereto but concerning the mischiefe and hurt which he doeth or the sinne that is by him let him not say wee make nothing of it For if they be beastes as it is written so that by their want of vnderstanding and conscience the flockes of the pastour be scattered and perish shall we say it is nothing If they be those foolish shepheardes whome the Lorde saith by Zecharie he will raise vp in iudgement to sell and to slay the sheepe to eate the flesh of the fat and to teare them in pieces which also shall not looke for them that are lost nor seeke the tender lambes nor heale that is hurt nor feede them but rather feede them selues vpon their flesh shall we make nothing of such ministers But go to he sayeth that Christ is the head of those assemblyes and not the dumbe ministers That Christ is their head or foūdation he can not prooue as was shewed before wherefore for any thing he can prooue the dumbe ministers in the absence of the Bishops and their officers are the chiefe and heades ouer them That they are alwayes chiefe we saide it not for when the Bishoppes which are greater vsurpers are present then they are heades and both the dumbe ministers and hireling preachers may serue well ynough to bee the tayle For Satan hath all wayes by such as by the taile of the dragon drawing the third part of the starres of heauen and cast them to the earth What shall we vnderstande by heauen but the shewe of the church as it were set in heauen by the starres but the children of the church falling to wickednes and loosing their light Such are the people of those assemblies whom Satan hath cast vpon the earth as starres ●out light He bringeth another proofe by Corah and his company For they saith he were not cast foorth of the lords host by Moses therefore should not these assemblyes also which haue a dumbe minister thrust vpon them be reputed for runnegates from the Lorde well let vs see was not in deede Corah with those that claue to him put apart from the hoste
with it All which indgements doe teach the Church at this day true iudgement namely to set it selfe both against small against great companyes if they withstande or refuse the true discipline of the church For Ieremie saith of him selfe that he was as a contentious man and a man that did striue with the whole earth euery one did curse him his owne familiars watched for his halting as he saith in another place he was in derision daily and euery one mocked him for he called thē al an assembly of rebels priuate famillar felloshippe he brake off with them as was shewed before and openly he came not amongest them but only to proclaime their sinnes and preach vengeance against them If it bee then asked whether Ieremie did condemne them al as none of the church and people of God let Ieremie him selfe answere it for indeede by their vsuall and common profession and trade of life they shewed not them selues to be the people and Church of god For as it is written both the great men and rulers and also the inferiour and poorer people had all together broken the yoke and burst the bandes In the streetes of Ierusalem and in the open places there could not a man be fonnde that did execute iudgement and sought the trueth that the Lord might spare the citie And he sayeth in another place They are all rebellious traytours they are brasse and yron they are all destroyers they shall call them reprobate siluer because the Lorde hath reiected them From the least of them euen to the greatest of them euery one is giuen vnto couetousnesse and from the Prophet euen vnto the Priest they all deale falsely They are all vnto me saith the Lorde againe as Sodome and the inhabitants thereof as the people of Gomorrah yet I doe not doubt but that there was the Church and children of God amongest them For Ieremie him selfe and Barucke was with them for Isaiah witnesseth that when iudgement was turned backewarde and iustice stoode a farre off so that all trueth and equitie failed yet I say there were some that refrained from euill and were made a pray to the rest In deede openly there was none to reforme the church of all his children there was none that tooke her by the hande to bring her into the way For the Lorde sought for a man among them that shoulde make the hedge and stande in the gappe before him for the land that he should not destroy it but he found none Yet there were those that had a marke on their foreheades as mourning and crying for all the abominations that were committed And if it be asked whether these were a visible church of God it is answered by Ezekiel in another place that among the heathen and in the countreyes where the Lorde did scattere them he was as a litle Sanctuarie vnto them whereby is meant that though they wanted the visible signe of the tēple and Sanctuarie at Ierusalem yet their holy conuersation shoulde shewe the Lord to be among them and that the Lorde would iudge betweene sheepe and sheepe betweene the rammes and the goates It is manifest that the Synagogogues of the Iewes in Antiochia and Ephesus were the churches of God yet when Christ was preached vnto thē and they withstoode Paul and Barnabas did Paul or Barnabas stay for the consent of the most part to cast them off Did they not foorthwith separate the disciples and gather the church apart from thē yea will M C. say for they were worthy to be cast off seeing they refused Christ. Then belike it is true that one man or a fewe persons may cast off whole churches for some greater sinnes and offences How then is it true which M. C. saith that one man being founde iudged to deserue separation should not be separate except the most part do consent He wil say peraduēture that he excepteth idolaters apostates frō the Lord. why then did he giue a generall rule without naming such exceptiōs yet Christ for all disobedience in refusing any message of God doth giue cōmandement euen to all and euery one of his messengers to cast off whole cities and churches as being in a worse case then Sodome and Gomorrha For if they receiue you not sayeth he nor heare your wordes when ye depart out of that house or that citie shake off the dust of your feete against them He will answere that their sinne also of not receiuing the messengers of Christ was the sinne of Apostacie And is not this a message from Christ when one or a fewe persons doe iustly rebuke the congregation for ouerthrowing the Lordes discipline and treading his scepter vnder foote and is not his scepter cast downe and his kingdome polluted when he which is manifestly knowen and prooued to deserue separation can not be cast out But againe he will say that those cities and churches were not cast off for refusing the Lordes messengers but for refusing such a message as they brought namely that the Christ and Messiah was nowe come in the flesh Surely til after the death of Christ they had no such message For Christ straightly charged his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Iesus the Christ meaning that till his death and rising againe it is not meete that that doctrine shoulde be blased abroade but it was sufficient for that time if they generally beleeued in the Messiah as the Iewes also did and refused him not when he shoulde be preached more clearely yet long before his death was the commandement giuen concerning those houses or cities which shoulde refuse his messengers yet in deede it is true that they which refuse his discipline and gouernement do also refuse Christ him selfe and so it is the sinne of apostacie For so it is written Those mine enemies which woulde not that I shoulde reigne oner them bring hither and slay them before me But hereto they will answere that yet till iudgement was executed by the Lorde him selfe they were called his Citizens for so the text sayeth that his Citizens hated him and sent an ambassage after him saying we wil not haue this man to reigne ouer vs. But doe they not knowe that they are called his Citizens because they should haue bene so and were not but became his enemies Indeede they were Citizens in name only but not in deed So Ierusalem in name was called the citie of God yet in deede it became that great Citie as it is written which spiritually is called Sodome and Aegypt where our Lorde also was crucified The Iewes were planted a noble vine as Ieremie witnesseth and Isaiah sayeth that the vineyard of the Lorde of Hostes was the house of Israel and the men of Iudah were sometymes his pleasant plant but nowe they are turned vnto me sayeth the Lorde into the plantes of a strange vine yea that we be