disliked by godly and learned men so the generall given for direction in such cases be observed 3 We hold it unlawfull outwardly and but in appearance to joyne with Idolaters in their Idolatry Many words in this matter might well bee spared But wee desire to see your commandement why for every particular act that in a large sense is Idolatrous adjoyned to the true worship of God Calfeb against Mar. art 10. p. 185 186. we should forbeare our presence at the worship it selfe or be said to communicate in the sinne there committed For then no man might present himselfe with good conscience at any publike worship of GOD wherein any thing is done amisse for matter or manner which is in effect to say hee cannot bee present at any at all 4 To communicate in the ordinances of God with the Ministers of the Church of England is not to like approve or reverence the institutions of men in the exercises of religion nor to communicate with the Teacher in his sin nor in ought else that is amisse For the worship is of God both for matter and manner And put case the Minister bee disorderly chosen enter not as he ought be Symoniacall covetous froward corrupt idle scandalous doe the people partake in his sin in that they make use of his Ministery No Scripture teacheth any such thing no reason doth confirm it noe approved authors ever said it That which you alledge for proofe falleth utterly short It appertaineth to the vertue of truth Dav. determ 7. p. 40. that as a man sheweth himselfe by externall signes so he is indeed to be esteemed And such as frequent or repair unto unlawfull assemblies for the publike worship of God by their being there are to be reputed of the same religion or else dissemblers as it were to have no care of religion knowing God Dovvay annot in 4. King 5.19 p. 778. but not glorifying him as God But herein you have misrelated the Doway translators for their words are But in a Christian countrey where all beare the name of Christians especially where men are at controversie about the true Christian Religion all that frequent or repaire unto the same assemblies for publike service of God are to be reputed of the same religion or else dissemblers Bodily presence at false worship by which they shew a liking unto it is unlawfull To eate of meates sacrificed unto Idols in the Idoll Temple Your condemning the worship of God performed in our assemblies as pernicious idolatry vvherein is it a lesser sinne han the Popes prohibition of publike prayer and restraint of the Word and Sacraments throughout the Realm you can neither shevv us warrant for it an the Scriptures nor example of it in the Church of God You that so teach and censure stand guiltie of great impietie and they that hearken unto your persvvasions are partakers of your iniquity in some sort of the vvrong imaginations of Christians Aug. in Tract â—o 19. saith Quae omnia idola cordis sunt T. Caepl 1. art 3. pag. 4. is to communicate with Idolaters These things are evident and freely granted But the Assemblie met to call upon God in the mediation of Jesus Christ alone to heare the doctrine of salvation soundly and purely preached to receive the Sacrament rightly administred is not a false idolatrous assemblie they that repaire unto it be not Idolatrous â—â—false worshippers If you esteem of them as they shew themselves by out ward signes you must esteem them to be of the true religion and the true worshippers of God according to his will The ministerie in that assembly to be true sound and faithfull and of God of substance In this lieth the point of the controversie which you are contented to passe by in silence without any proofe at all But if any humane frailtie or infirmitie cleave to the ministerie or congregation in respect of doctrine manners lawes government or order which concernes not the life and soul but only the safety of the Church or wellfare of Religion In these a Christian doth not partake by his presence at the ordinances as the Scripture reason and the approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church do plentifully witnesse This is the judgement and practice of the Nonconformists and therefore they professe they praise God for this reformation so farre forth as it is agreeable to the Word of God they are glad the Word of God is preached that the Sacraments are administred that which is wanting they desire to be added that which is overmuch cut off But that a Christian must separate from the Word and Sacrament by reason of some superfluities or defects is no responsive conclusion that can be gathered soundly from their writings CAN Stay Sect. 5. pag. 66. In preaching of the truths of the Gospell by a false Minister an Idolatrous act is performed For Divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing howbeit in it selfe good but as the essentiall parts belonging thereto whether they are persons or things are kept and observed The Church of Rome in Baptisme useth water and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and wine otherwhile too doth this cleare their administrations of Idolatry I think all men doe thinke that Vzziah committed an Idolatrous act 2 Chron. 26.16 when he invaded the Priests office But what made it so tooke he unlawfull incense no. Vsed he strange fire no. Offered hee prohibited Sacrifice or upon a wrong Altar No Where then lay the fault the Scripture telleth us Verse 18. it pertained not to him to burne incense unto the Lord but to the sons of Aaron To apply this if his act were Idolatrous because he wanted a calling howbeit observed many truths of the law By the same reason the Church acts of Artichristian Ministers are Idolatrous yea and as for the truths which they preach this cleares their acts no more from Idolatry than Vzziahs true Incense and the Altar quitted him from transgression ANSWER Your great words are of small force CAN. Stag. §. 3. p. 56. for should I speake my conscience it is your phrase They are words without weight of reason For still you presuppose the Ministerie of the Church of England to bee false and idolatrous which is to beg not to conclude the question But that being presupposed let us see how you goe forward In preaching the truth of the Gospell by a false Minister an Idolatrous act is performed you say But doth the Scripture say so Do you read it in the Law or in the Prophets in the Apostles or in the Evangelists The Scribes and Pharisees were false Ministers but it was not an Idolatrous worke in them to expound the Law of Moses or dispence other Church ordinances at that time commanded The popish Priests and Bishops are false Prophets but the simple administration of Baptisme by them is not an idolatrous act The Minister that is prophane and
not beene noted for noveltie singularitie and division is to bee received as the undoubted truth of God If these assertions be true then is this condemnatorie sentence most unjust and untrue For not only all old writers generally but the most learned of later times yea and all sects and sorts of people professing Christianitie themselves excepted are against it Therefore did they consider the terrour of the Lord CAN stay sect 1 p. 8. and that great day in which the Lord Iesus shall appeare in the brightnesse of his Father to avenge the quarrell of his least Commandement and to judge the wrongs Gregorie to John the Bishop of Constantinople saith thus Tu qâ—â—â— Christo universali ecclesic capiti in extrâ—mi judicii dâ—cturus es examine qui cuactacjus membra tibimet conarts universalis appellatione supponere CAN stay against straying sect 1. p. 8 Parker of the crosse part 2. c. 9. sect 2. I may well compare some of unbridled spirits to the Flaccians whose intemperate furie made Ernestus to deale the more hardly with the Protestants out of a fear they were all of the same spirit and would in the end procure like mischiefe Am. Polan in Dan. c. 9. injuries and reproaches which are cast upon his Church and Saints ordinances and worship they would not speake evill of what they know not revile his heritage despise his worship condemn the righteous vilifie the ordinances of grace abuse Scriptures misalledge Authors cause divisions and schismes in the Churches of God distract the minaes of some obstinate others and expose religion it selfe to contempt Let mee speake to them as the great est zealot in that cause at this day speaketh to his opposite in a cause of lesse importance When God ariseth up what will they answer him what will they say when hee shall not onely charge them that they have made a rent in the Church brought an evill report upon his ordinances spoken contemptuously of that which he approved yea commanded and perverted his word for that end and purpose But also that they have laboured with might and maine to draw others into the same transgression by meanes whereof his name is blasphemed the weake scandalized the godly made sad and that which was halting quite turned aside If it be sure that a more grievous punishment is reserved for them that cause others to offend than for them which doe such things themselves let the adviser weigh seriously whether it doth not concerne himselfe as much as any other to tremble and stand in awe It is a vaine boast that at this day there are few CAN say Episâ— to the Reader The judgment and practice of some men of speciall account in the Church of God have to this day held this impression in me that I esteem the Captaines and Ancient-bearers of this schisme unworthy the honour of any set conflict and publike confutation S. B. the raising of the foundation of Browne Ep. to the Christian Reader CAN Neces of separa Epist to the Reader Galschill to Martial Epist Omnia invalida nihilo sunt aequiâ—â— paranda if any except Formalists and Familists and men of corrupt mindes who suppose that gaine is Godlines that will appeare in defence of our parish Churches Ministerie and Worship For the professors as he is pleased to stile them are of the same judgement touching those things that formerly they have beene of and stand ready by the Scriptures to prove their godly congregations to be the true Churches of Iesus Christ and their worship to be of his holy institution If of later times they have beene silent in these matters it is not because they are better informed or that they see and acknowledge their worship and Ministery to be fals and idolatrous but they would not spend good houres in vaine seeing what soever was written in this kinde had beene learnedly and sufficiently answered not with reproaches taunts and boastings as is suggested but with solid proofe out of the booke of God Christian Religion teacheth men to occupie themselves otherwise than to mispend their time in answering that which in the eares of all indifferent men carryeth a sufficient confutation with it or is sufficiently confuted already specially when experience had lessoned them that they must deale with such as will overcome by peremptory censuring when weight of reason is wanting to them Neverthelesse If not reply if they please and when they will CAN stay Epist When the undertakers have finished their answer and â—ast Dav. published his many things that he hath to say against it Id sect 4. p. 36. least overmuch silence should be interpreted consent or beget too great confidence in men of the goodnesse of their cause and others should stumble at their vaunts as if none durst because they doe not undertake their answer I am purposed by the grace of God to examine the grounds and arguments whereby they would perswade the Necessitie of Separation from our Assemblies and from the worship of God performed amongst us Sundry things M. Canne requesteth of him that shall undertake to read and answer his bookes CAN stay epistle to the Reader 1 That when he setteth himselfe to read hee should set himself as in Gods presence and look on with a single and unpartiall eye 2 That he live by his owne faith and build not upon another mans fancie 3. That he denie himself and be contented to be guided by God alone 4. That for a particular faile hee doe not condemne the whole 5. That hee change not the state of the Question 6. That he may finde plaine dealing Id. Stay sect 1. p. 2.4.5 Sanctis Scripturis non loquentibus quis loquitur Amb. de vocat Gent. tom 2. l. 2. c. 3. Omne quod loquimur debemus â—ffi mare de Scripturis sanctis Hier. in Psal 98. tom 8. Nihil ultra quamsacris literis proditum est definiendum Erasm in Hilar. Solum Dei verbum certum caetera falsa si dâ—ssentiant Fer. ad Rom. c. 3. p. 303. CAN stay sect 4. p. 32. sect 1. p. 44. and what is brought against him be read out of the Prophets or Psalmes the Law or Gospell Whether these conditions be observed by the Author himselfe in his writings let the indifferent judge as namely whether passages of Scripture be truly alledged Authors rightly quoted arguments plainly propounded conclusions soundly drawne his adversaries ingenuously dealt withall Whether in writing he set himselfe in the presence of God and weigh in the Ballance of the Sanctuarie what he commendeth unto his Reader Whether he censure not before he make proofe by Scripture and rather insult over his adversaries with insolent and reproachfull tearmes than confute their grounds with substantiall reasons and whiles he commendeth plaine dealing simplicitie and integritie he doe not play the jugler who pretends plainnesse that he might beguile and deceive the sooner For when he makes semblance of zeale for the puritie of religion
CAN stay Epist to the Reader CAN Neces of separation Epist to the Reader wisheth tendernesse of conscience to his Reader ever and anon objecteth to his â—pposites what abominations and vile corruptions they labour to justifie which formerly they condemned beareth in hand that the Scriptures speak expresly for him and the learned of all sorts ancient and moderne who would not expect faire cariage and honest dealing whereas let the whole frame of his writings be looked into with a single heart and unpartiall eye and it will be found wery corrupt loose deceitfull for the matter and stuffed with scorne reproach slander insolency and falsifications for the manner Herein whether I speake the words of truth and sobernesse let the Reader search and then give sentence But for mine owne part I desire to answer in the feare of God and not to strive with him in the like measure of sinning A good cause needs no such tricks of wit but as it is of God so it is able to maintaine and defend it self and the more sincerely it is propounded the more it will prevaile In controversies if men will keepe a good conscience their zeale must be tempered with wisedome truth and meeknesse of spirit they must speake as in Gods presence give the right sense of Scripture and make fit application of it seeke the truth in love and that victorie alone which truth will carrie According to the measure of grace received from God I shall desire to walke within these bounds and with this resolution I come to compare cause with cause and reason with reason Let the Scriptures be the only judge betweene us upon which all a Aug. Epist 48. Audi quid dicit Dominus non quid dicit Donatus c. Et de Pastor ca. 4. Ego vocem Pastoris requirâ— lege de Psalmo c. Hieron in Mat. 23. Quod ex Scriptura non habet authoritatem c. Basil de vera fide Nos omnem a Dominica doctrina alienam vocem sententiam fugiamus Chr. in 2 Cor. hom 13. Obsecro oro omnes vos ut relinquatis quid huic vel illi videatur de his scripturis haec omnia inquirite Ambr. tom 3. lib. 5. epist 31. Caeli mysterium doceat me Deus ipse non homo qui seipsum ignoravit Petrus de Aliaco praec Gerson Nullum principis edictum aut ecclesiae decretum est justum nisi sit Divinae legi consonum Novum Testamentum est malleus qui universas haereses interimit est velut lucerna lumen exhibens recurrendum est ad folas Scripturas ut aeteâ—nam salutem adipiscamur conclusions in Divinitie if sound are grounded whereby all distinctions if true are warranted After the voice of God in Scripture the determinations and practices of our Guides who are no b Mat. 11.8 Luc. 7.14 1 Reg. 14.15 sc calamus arundincus non aromaticus sâ—â— mensorius CAN stay answ sect 1. p. 47. Howsoever we must live by our owne faith notwithstanding wee are not lightly to esteeme of the determinations and practices of our Guides specially when we know they are no reedes but men stable and unchangeable in the truth Bilson Christian subject part 2. pag. 351. Many Bishops have taught lyes and and seduced Princes in the Church of God and therfore not their dignitie but their doctrine is it that princes must regard for neither prince nor people stand bound to the persons of men but unto the truth of God and unto their teachers so long as they swerve not from the truth Id. Absolute judge of truth neither prince nor priest may challenge to be for God is truth and of God I trust no man may bee judge The sonne of God saith of himselfe I am truth c. Angust de nuptiis ad Valentin l. 2. cap. 33. Optat. lib. 5. ad Parmenian And page 351. Only God is to limit and appoint by his word what shalt stand for truth and what for errour c. And as Bishops ought to discerne which is the truth before they teach so must the people discerne who teacheth right before they believe Idem page 355. As the pastors have authoritie from Christ to preach the truth and woe be to them that resist the preachers of truth so have all hearers both libertie to discerne and a charge to beware of seducers given them by the same Lord and woe be to them that doe it not reeds but men stable in the truth shall be produced for they are not lightly to be esteemed though their consent cannot bee the ground of Divine faith and assurance The Lord in mercie give us to know the things which concerne our peace comfort and salvation and make us wise to walke in all pleasing before him CHAP. I. THe Question betwixt us is Whether by the Scriptures and principles of the Nonconformists The state of the Question Separation from the Church of England be necessary or lawfull Those that hold it lawfull to be present at the preaching of the Word but not to partake in the prayers of the Congregations nor to be present at the Sacraments there administred I leave to their owne defence The necessity or lawfullnesse of Separation is that which I deny Neither is it here questioned CAN. Necessit of Separ Epist to the Reader Whether the principles of the Nonconformists be true and justifiable but whether the necessity or lawfulnesse of separation can truly and justly be inferred and concluded from them This Position therefore I lay downe as directly contrary to the other That separation from the prayers Sacraments and preaching of the Word of God in the congregations and assemblies of the Church of England is unlawful by the Scriptures that whatsoever complaints whether just or unjust the Nonconformists judicious learned and holy have made of the corruptions in our Church government Ministerie Worship Prayers Administration of the Sacrament and people received or permitted as externall members they doe not inferre either in their judgements or in truth a necessitie or lawfulnesse of Separation from our Churches as no true Churches of Christ our Ministerie as false and Antichristian our Worship as Idolatry And therefore I shall shall hope such as have separated unadvisedly if men of tender hearts they will repent of their rashnesse seeing the grounds where upon they build are rotten the building ruinous and the practice directly tending to the scandall of Religion and discomfort of their soules And now I proceed in the feare of God by the beames of Truth to try and examine what is objected to shew the necessitie of Separation from the Nonconformists principles SEC I. TO Communicate in a false Ministerie CAN. Neces of Separat ca. 1. S. 3 pag. 26 27. The Church acts of Antichristian Ministers are Idolatious Id. Stay sect 1. pag. 5. s 4. p. 28. Id. Stay Answ s 5 pag. 66. Mat. 24.5.24 Hos 4 17. See Jun. on the the place See
the ordinances of prescribed Worship though they must take heed to their soules Mâ—â— 15.16 Mâ—â— 5.20 that they be not deceived by them The Scribes and Pharisees were blinde guides who did neither teach the way of life nor walke therein and yet our Saviour forbad not the faithfull to heare or communicate with them in the Worship of God He charged his Disciples to beware of their leaven Mâ—â—th 16.12 23.16 Luk. 12.1 Amsw in Song cap. 1. v. 6. and let them alone because they were blinde leaders of the blinde but so long as they preached the truth and woshipped God aright he never prohibited them to heare and communicate in the ordinances To beware of false Prophets then is not evermore in body to separate from them A Deo â—ocati itque constitutt sunt ut legâ—â—n Moses in Syâ—â—gugis populo praeâ—â—gant c. Quale â—unque 〈◊〉 sunt 〈◊〉 est reciplâ—â—aâ— si veâ—o 〈…〉 consâ—n aâ—â—â— iâ—â—â—â—lenda 〈…〉 Pise it in Matth. 23.2 3. Aug. in Ioh. 〈◊〉 46. 〈…〉 â—â—crâ— nolite audâ—â—c â—olite faecâ—e spanâ— que 〈…〉 Visin de Lâ—â—â— Baptarg desen pag. 1691. Pâ—â—â— 5.3.7 Aug. cp 2â—◠〈…〉 voâ—abub 〈◊〉 disternâ—t quotidiana 〈…〉 quodest inimicumnom ni Christi 〈…〉 consâ—â—cure Lyâ—â— expounds this place of the false Church Tâ—nt 2. p. 314. CAN Sâ—y §. 4. p. 61. but not to receive their doctrine or hearken to the devises of their owne hearts For of false prophets that teach corrupt things and mangle the Word of life some have standing in the house of God and doe performe the office of teachers and dispencers of holy mysteries whose devises we must so reject as that we depart not from the ordinances nor cast off that which is of God Others set up a strange worship which is not of God teach their owne dreames and not the Truth of God be set apart for reall idolatry or have no standing at all in the Church of God and with these we are not to communicate because these things are not of God nor to be performed by any calling or authoritie from God whatsoever But whiles you speake of false Prophets without any distinction you faine a new forme of speech and bring in a new doctrine Solomon exhorteth to attend unto wisedome and keep understanding because otherwise he may be deceived by the lips of the a dulterous woman which drop as the hony combe But with what face or conscience can this be applyed to them who preach the faith of Christ intirely and administer the seale of the Covenant for substance according to the pleasure of the Institutor Or to them that be not rightly qualified who yet are set apart to teach the truth read the Scriptures dispence the Sacraments in societies professing the true faith and doctrine of salvation It will be said False teachers are Adulteresses In some resemblance and similitude they may be so called but Metaphoricall speeches must not be over-retched And who are those false Teachers Not every man who is not rightly qualified for the Ministery enters disorderly Ainsw in Sâ—ng c. 2.15 The taking of these Foxes is the discovering and refuting of â—â—eir errours â—â—e judging censuring and câ—sting them out of the Church 1 Tim. 1.3.18 19 20. or wording them if thâ— be none of the Church 2 Ioh. 10. Qui 〈…〉 deâ—que improvatâ— atque dammatâ— â—â—â—coqucâ—â— posti 〈…〉 est Rolioc in 1 Theol. 5.21 Câ—fehill â—reâ—t of one Crossâ— pag. 25. Stay against Sect. 1. p. 2. Pl. pag. 22. Hen. Amsw First Ansvv c p. 26. Now seeing such vveeds flourished shortly after in the garden of thâ— Lord is it not more Life for us thinke you to keep that foundation of the Apostles and Prophets on which Christs Church is builded thâ—n to build upon the boggs 〈…〉 executeth his office remissely nor every one that now and then mingles his owne devises with the Truth of God For any one or all these may be found in him who supplieth the place and standeth in the roome of a true Teacher with whom the people of God may and ought to communicate not in his sin but in the true Worship of God Sufficient hath been said of this matter before from the example of the Priests Scribes and Pharisees To which this one thing may be added That if all must goe for such false Prophets and Adulteresses with whom it is not lawfull to communicate against whom any exception may be taken in respect of entrance execution doctrine and administration I feare there will scarce be found a Church or Ministerie since the Apostles times wherewith the Faithfull might lawfully hold Communion It is well knowne many errours and superstitions crept into the Church immediately after the Apostles death and the Pastors had their hands deep in the maintenance of them What one saith of Chrysostome as you cite him may be said of others before and after him He was not without his faults His golden mouth wherein he passed others sometime had leaden words which yeelded to the errour and abuse of others I am not ignorant that in his daies many evill customes were crept into the Church which in his workes he reproveth not And so much the aforesaid Author had expressed a little before There is not any of them saith hee that the world doth most wonder at but have had their affections nor I thinke that you adversaries to us and to the Truth will in every respect admit all that any one of the Fathers wrote My selfe were able from the very first after the Apostles times to run them over all and straitly examining their words and assertions finde imperfections in all and thus farre the Authour What then must the Faithfull disclaime them all as false Prophets and Adulteresses and shun all Communion and fellowship with them in the worship of God If boysterous zeal did not blinde mens eyes I should wonder if you be not astonished at your abuse of Scripture in this matter And when you cite Scripture allegorically in this manner you may doe well to call to remembrance what your selfe have noted out of Mr. CAN. Stay §. 15. p. 135. Knewstubs against the Heresies of N. N. pag. 61. To uphold the heresies of N. N. this is one speciall and principall practice that the historie and native sense of the Word of God is altogether neglected of him and in stead thereof is entertained an allegoricall and bastardly construction foolish and fond distinctions which thing utterly defaceth the certaintie of the sacred Scripture and maketh no other thing of it than a nose of waxe The Apostle giveth charge to beware of dogs Phil 32. Deodat Ital. Bible That is profane and impure thus he calleth false Prophets who taught that the righteousnesse and salvation of man did consist in part in the works of the Law and imposed a necessiâ—â—e to observe the Mosaicall ceremonies Act. 15.1 Zanch. in Ph. 3.2 Sect. de Caâ—eâ—dis falsis Doctor Bern. sup Cant. serm
a malo est facimus nihilt Calvinus autem eo in loâ—o agit de rutibus adventitiis solum non de ordinatione tota simpliciter Imposition of hands whereby the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit were given unto Beleevers was peculiar to the Apostles Act. 8.14 15.19.6 vide Beza annot major in Act. 19. Synops purior Theol. disput 24. §. 32.33 Jus Pastores â—â—gendâ— est penes Ecclesiam ac â—oâ—inde pâ—bi convenit cum Presbyteris Ius eos ordinandi solis Presbyteris est propriâ— CAN. Neces of sep c. 1. p. 8. Jun. animad in Bell. cont 5. l. 1. ca. 3. not 9 10. Bell. de Cler. l. 1. ca. 3. §. Accedat If an unmeet Minister be set in office by whomsoever the election is made he is of men or humane but forthwith there followeth not a nullitie of his Ministerie If a fit Minister be chosen disorderly in that choice there is somewhat humane but the Office or Ministerie is of God In the body we can distinguish between the substance and the sicknesse which cleaveth unto it betwixt the substance of some member and a bunch or swelling which is a deformitie but destroyeth not the nature taketh not away the use of that part or member But what answere can be given to the argument drawn from their grounds which Proposition in the syllogisme propounded can they denie seeing they are both theirs If both be theirs they cannot denie them but he that hath seen you by your writings only knoweth by experience if he hath made any tryall it is not safe to trust your bare saying or confident Assertion The Nonconformists disclaime the Major as none of theirs and the Assumption so farre as it is true makes nothing against them First the Nonconformists never held Ordination by the people where he is to administer to be necessarie or essentiall in the calling of a Minister For in their opinion ordination belongeth not to the communitie of the Faithfull but to the Presbyterie or Colledge Ecclesiasticall and may and ought to be performed by the Presbyters of neighbouring Congregations if they have none of their owne or not a competent number Thus you your selfe relate their Position Moreover every officer in the Church must be ordained by imposition of hands of the Eldership the whole Church joyning with them in fasting and prayer Secondly They give not the sole power of Election to the communitie of the Faithfull but require their consent in the election by the guidance and direction of their Governors See Calvin Epist 131. Instit l. 4. cap. 3. §. 15. T. C. repl 2. pag. 1. 196.197 Iun. Eccles 3. p. 1. Non solus judicat sed praeeunte moderante Clero Presbyterio soret enim proclive labi in illud incommodum si populus solus eligerit Non est autem ab â—o tantum periculum ubi conjunctus est Clerus actioncan dirigit Presbyterium praesertim consilio auctoritate vicinorum Episcoporum ecclesiarumque accedente Iun. contr 5. l. 1. ca. 7. not 24. Aurcolus in 4. Sent. dist 24. art 2. ra 3. ea quae sunt ordi num omnes recipiunt immediate a Christo Horb Irenic l. 2. cap. 11. prop. 13. pag. 179. Itaque potest cuiquam c. Fr. de Victor in rel de potest eccle Q 2. W E. The Church plea. §. 8. pag. 78. A dispute par 3. cap. 8. pag. 167. Of him who is obtruded and thrust upon a people without their owne election it is vvell said by Zanchius That he can neither exercise his Ministerie with a good conscience nor yet be profitable to the people See Fulk in Rhem. in Ephe. 4.13 As some people be of that disposition that they know better to be governed than to governe Grat. de jure belli lib. 1. c. 3. pag. 49. so it fareth with some Christians that it is better they should be provided for than left to provide for themselves and the Ecclesiasticall Colledge to whom the Government of the Church is committed They allow not that every small companie should doe as they please or stand upon their owne bottome But as the Church is to be governed by common counsell and consent of the Ecclesiasticall Colledge so the election and choice of the Pastor or Teacher is to be made by the direction and counsell of the Senate A Pastor should not be thrust upon the people without their knowledge and approbation neither should the people proceed therein without direction of the Governours Thirdly The Minister doth not derive his power or authoritie either vertually or formally from the people but immediately from Christ whose servant he is for the Churches use and benefit in whose name he must execute his office whose message he must deliver whose seales he must dispence and to whom he must give account This is that which Franciscus de Victoria the master of Canus affirmeth though his words be ignorantly drawne to another purpose I suppose you know by whom That all Bishops doe derive Iurisdiction and power immediately from God Fourthly If the people have given away their power of election or be not fit to chuse through their ignorance or simplicitie or that libertie be taken from them they conceive it to be a maime or defect in the calling of the Minister but this defect doth not make a nullitie of the office or acts done by vertue of that calling which he hath For in every true Church where the Word of God is intirely Preached and received and the Sacraments for substance rightly administred there is a true Ministerie and a true calling to the Ministerie though in some things maimed and faultie In the Church of God and no where else all sound and saving truth is to be found for the Church is the pillar and ground of Truth and where the profession of all saving Truth with the right administration of the Sacraments is found there is the Church which ordinarily cannot be had maintained or continued without a true Ministerie nor that without a true calling The saving truth of God Gratian. Decret dist 63. cap. 22 23. and a true Ministerie are essentiall to the true Church consisting of all it parts and partaker of the Ordinances of grace Something of the se remaine in every complete societie Platima in vita Benedict 2. In the Primitive Church the people which were Lay-men chose their Pastors and for a long time the Bishops of Rome themselves were not chosen without the consent of the Princes c. and the Emperors were possessed of it as their right ever since the daies of Châ—rles Bilson Christ Subject part 3. pag. 168. Sol. Iarchi 2 Mac. 4.7 8 26 27. Ioseph Antiq lib. 20. cap. 18. l. 18. cap. 4. Ctrnel Bertram de pol. Iudaic. cap. 18. Concil Laed c. cap. 13. Non est permittendum turbis c. Iun. animadv in Blâ— contr 5. lib. 1. ca 7 not 16.17 which hath any thing of the Church and for
substance and essence they are true in every true and lawfull complete societie But as the profession of the truth may be found in all fundamentall points though mixed with many errours so for Truth and existence the Ministerie may be lawfull though in many particulars delinquent and deficient In the true Church then there is a true Ministerie But the true Church hath continued there by the blessing of God where the Election of Ministers hath been given away by the people or taken from them In later times the High Priesthood was bought and sold for monie and somtimes it was made annuall that every yeere new Priests were created as those Governours whom Kings change every yeere that as every man would lay out more or lesse monie he should obtaine or lose the Priesthood Which may be seen in the examples of Iason and Menelaus Neverthelesse so long as the Church of the Jewes continued the Church of God the Priesthood continued also In the Primitive Churches when the people had a voice in the choice of their Teachers oftentimes there were factions in the Church the people stood against their Guides and the Guides against their people and the people were divided one against another And sometimes either through sloth or for peace the Pastors left the election of Officers to the people Ruffin lib. 11. c. 10.11 Theod. hist lib. 4. ca. 6. August Epist 110. 225. Socrat. hist lib. 7. ca. 34 35. 39. Concil Antioch cap. 18. Sozom. hist l. 2. ca. 18 19. Naziatrz in Epit. patris Euagr. l. 2. cap. 5.8 Theodor. l. 5. ca. 23. Gratian. dist 63. ca. 11 12. Cypr. l. 3. epist 14. 10. W.B. The Church plea. §. 8. pag. 90. T.C. repl 2. par 1. p. 212. Cypr. l. 2. epist 5. l. 4. Epist 5. l. 3. epist 22. and the like he did for Optatus Satuus Caesernius Numidicus Calv. Inst l 4. c. 4. §. 10. August epist 223. Theod. l. 1. ca. 23. Socrat. hist. l. 2. ca. 19. Sozom. l. 3. c. 20. Socrat. hist. lib. 7. ca. 28. W.B. The Church plea. § 8. pag. 80. Centur. 1. ca. 4. Centur. 6 7. col 591. Centur. 2. c. 7. p. 134. 135. and the people challenged it unto themselves and sometimes againe they took it from their people and challenged it to themselves But in the mids of these broyles he was accounted a true Minister who was elected whether by the Guides or by the people or by the Emperour so he taught the doctrine of Salvation truely And if this be not admitted what shall be done when the people and their Elders be divided in the choice of a fit Officer or Guide If the people prevaile against their Elders he whom they chuse is no Minister to them because not chosen by their Suffrages if the Elders against the people he whom they approve is no Minister because he wants the peoples voice And if the people dissent they must separate and excommunicate one another because to the one part he is no Minister whom the other approve Though Cyprian teach That Ministers should be chosen by the people yet this forme of Election was not in some Churches in Cyprians time who were esteemed true Churches and true Ministers And Cyprian himselfe appointed Aurelius a Reader without advice of the Church by the authoritie of his fellow-Ministers then present Pinianus was ordained of the people Elder of the Church against Augustines minde and will Athanasius made Frumentius Bishop and sent him to the Indies he created Presbyters in other Churches and when he came into Egypt as many as he knew addicted to the Arian haeresie hee put them out of their place and whose Faith he tryed and approved to them he committed the Churches The Church of Cyzicena gave this honor to Atticus that without his consent it could not chuse a Bishop You will not denie but the Ministerie of the Church for the first second and third and fourth hundred yeeres after Christ was true and might be joyned withall For thus writeth a friend of yours and as it is supposed by your aide It is affirmed by the Centuries of Magdenburg that from Christs ascension unto Trajans time which is about an hundred yeers every particular Church was governed by the Bishops Elders and Deacons and describing the state of Christian Churches from Trajans reigne unto Severus that is from the yeere of Christ 100 to 195 thus they write The order of Government was popular for all Churches had equall power of teaching purely the Word of God administration of the Sacraments excommunication of hereticks and wicked persons loosing the penitent the election and ordination of Ministers and the deposition of them againe for just cause And even unto Constantines time The Primitive purity of Church Government was not yet defloured with the dregges of mans invention â—igâ—em in Apoc. 12. pag. 505. 506. Neither had Satan brought in Prelaticall pride into the sheepfold of the Lord but Pastors looked every one to the health of his owne flock And a litle after he citeth Epiphanius â— â— Ibid. pag. 90. Hierome Ambrose Cyrill Hilarie and Gregorie Nazianzene as making for him in the matter of chusing Ministers But most certaine it is within this space of time many things were done in the election and ordination of Ministers which are directly crosse to that which you require as essentiall in his calling See Iun. eccl l. 3. cap. 1. See Sâ—crat l. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 21. Grâ—e 16 17. c. 35. Gr. lat 29. ca. 36. Gr. ca. 30. lat Sozom. l. 6. ca. 18.20 Evagr. p. 2. c. 8. Socr. hist 13. l. 4. c. 10.33 Theo. l. 4. c. 6. Ambr. offic l. 1. Bils Christian Sub. part 2. pag. 28 2. Sozom. l. 7. cap. 8. Socrat. hâ—st l. 5. ca. 8. Iust in Novel Inst 223. cap. 28.9 Concil Toâ—â—â—an ca. 2â— Greg. epist. lâ—b 40. ca. 78. To Constantia the Empresse The Bishop of Salona was ordered neither â— nor any responsarie witting thereof which thing was never attempted under any of the Princes your predecessors c. Yet I obeying their graces Precepts did from my heart remit unto the said Maximus this his presumption as freely as if he had been ordered by my self c. Concil tom 2. Concil Parisien can 8. if at any time you can prove that all things were observed which I doe not beleeve Ambrose himselfe was chosen Bishop when he was onely Catechumenus before he was baptized so that he was constrained to teach that which himselfe had not learned yesterday catechised to day a Bishop The Election in all things not to be approved as consonant to the rule for the Canons were strong against it and Saint Paul seemeth not willing that a novice should be a Bishop but never thought or esteemed to be none at all Of the election of Nectarius see Sozomene and Socrates Iustinian ordained If any man build a Church or house of prayer and would have Clerkes
inficiari quin prius in Christum creded runt quam fecerunt a nobis divortium unde haec fides Annon ex praedicatione in nostra Ecclesia Numquid ergo praedicare quis potest nisi mittatur Rom. 10.13 c. Quid ergo verbum propter labem aliquam externae vocationis tam perverse respuunt cujus vim divinam in cordibus sentiunt Etiamsi fructus ipse non magis culpâ liberat depravationes nostras quam vera proles adulterium Nec igitur nobis in iis acquiescendum est nec iis a nobis propter aliquos naevos deficiendum Quamobrem redite ad unitatem Ecclesiae quae vos genuit aluit Si fugiatis hunc Christum qui cum electis in nostris caetibus caenat ac eos vicissim excipit profectò nusquam invenietis Interim cogitemus etiam nos quantum nobis ipsis malum accersimus qui mordicùs retinendo superstitiones nostras fratres in tantum periculum coniicimus Certe si quid momenti habet quod olim confirmavit ipsa veritas praestaret hujusmodi hominibus suspensa mola asinaria in collis demergi in profundo maris Matth. 18.6 Vtrisque sanitatem mentis precor Here wee see the Non-conformists agreeable to the Scripture sound reason the consent of all Antiquitie and their own Principles doe plainely distinguish betwixt a maime or defect in the calling of a Minister and no calling at all that it is great ignorance or to speak most favourably inconsideratenesse to charge them as if they went against their own Principles in holding Communion with the Churches of England in the ordinances of Gods worship And if haste had not blinded Robinson against Bern. reasons discuss p. 285. this you might have observed out of the Separatists themselves There is saith one speaking of Baptisme in this point a further consideration to be had unto which both the Scriptures and our owne experience doe lead us namely that as the Lord hath his people in Babylon his I meane both in respect of election and of personall sanctification so hath he for their sakes there preserved notwithstanding all the Apostasie and confusion which is found in it sundry his holy truths and ordinances amongst which Baptisme is one But if his ordinances be preserved or any one of them true for substance of necessity some truth of Ministerie whereby those ordinances be administred must bee preserved also It is an injurie to the people as the Non-conformists hold Whitak de pont Rom. contr 4. qu. 1. cap. 1. Si velimus Christum ipsum respicere fuit semper ecclesiae regimen monarchicum si ecclesiae Praebyteros qui in doctrina disciplina suas partes agebant Arâ—stocraticum si totum corpus ecclesiae quatenus in electione episcoporum presbyterorum suffragia serâ—bat ita tamen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 semper Praesbyteris servaretur Democraticum Dan. in 1 Tim. 5. pag. 352. that a Minister should be thrust upon them against their wills or whom they never saw nor heard of But if the people be few simple apt to be deceived unable to judge of the fitnesse of a Minister they stand in need of direction not onely from their owne Elders but from other Churches The practice of the Apostles will confirme this for sometimes men were propounded unto the Church to be chosen and sometimes the choice was wholly left unto them And was not this for our direction that more libertie may be given where the danger is lesse and more caution and restraint used where the danger is apparant that if they be left unto themselves either an ill or an unfit choice shall be made In reason it is evident for the childs consent is required in marriage and the more able he is to chuse for himselfe the more liberty may Parents grant him in his choice but if he be not able or lesse able the more watchfull must they be over him and so in this matter The Presbyters are to goe before the people in the examination Heb. 18.7 Tert. in â—pol c. 39. approbation and designement of a man fit for the Ministerie for they are guides to whom the chiefe care and direction of things Ecclesiasticall doth belong As for the people it is not their office and for the most part they are unable to judge of those things To the people therefore it pertaineth onely to give their consent to him that is chosen or to shew their reasons why they cannot approve of him who is propounded but no testimonie of Scripture no example no reason teacheth Kuclin Catech. Hollant de legit â—ocat Minist Th. 10. Plebâ—damus pâ—testatem propanendi si quas habetâ—e usaâ—ionâ—s caâ—sas that the whole businesse should be committed to the desires and requests of the whole and sole multitude The consent of the people is not required to the common election whereby a good godly learned fit Man was chosen to the Ministerie but to the singular election of a Minister whereby he is chosen to be set over this or that congregation Or if that expression be lyable to some exception Ion. animadâ— in Bell coâ—â— 5. l. 1. ca. 3. not 3. ca. 7 â—ot 7. Ibid. not 24.26 The consent of the people is not required in this Whether such a man be fit for the Ministerie and meet to be set apart for the worke of the Lord but whether he be fit or meet to be their Minister by whom they may be edified and builded up in Faith and holinesse Of the former they have no calling or right to judge but in the latter they have great interest Brotherly societie requireth that we mutually admonish exhort reprove and comfort each other as occasion is offered and when need requireth it is the duty of neighbour-Churches to lend helpe to their brethren in the choice and election of their Minister Iun Eccles l. 3. ca. 〈◊〉 For if Churches have not fit men amongst them for the Ministerie nor able men to make choice for themselves they are to be holpen in love without prejudice to their libertie and not to be discarded and cast off as unworthy the name of a Church When the Scripture willeth that one should admonish another it is not only a coÌ„mandement to every singular man towards his fellow Heb. 3.13 Rom. 15.14 Rom. 12.12 Carâ—w repl 2. par 1. p. 23 1. but also to one whol company towards another society St. Paul when he teacheth that all the faithful are meÌ„bers of one mysticall body of Christ who ought to have a mutual care one of another laid the foundation of this policie Bellar asketh Quo jure unus populus episcopum alterius populi eligere potest Junius answereth Bellar. de Clâ—r l. 1. c. 7. Iun. Ibid. cap 7. not 13. eccld 3. c. 1. Not 24. Certè charitatis jure communionis sanctorum nam populus infidelis ipse non potest eligere utpote nondum vocatus sed postea vocandus ad
same I leave it to your conscience to judge This is sure neither Scripture nor Author cited doth speake with you in that matter but plainly professe that it was unlawfull because it was expresly forbidden That exercise saith Zanchie did seeme praise-worthy to the Israelites and yet it is to play the harlot Why because it is sacriledge to depart from the Word of the Lord. But the Word of the Lord had commanded that they should worship the Lord only at Ierusalem and by such rites as hee had instituted The Kings who are commended in Scripture who yet tooke not away the high places as Asa Jehosaphat Amasias Azarias and Jothian they were not commended for suffering the high places but that they were constant in faith and religion although they fell into some peculiar sins But withall the abuse of the high places in the worship of God was no light sin but very grievous because it was properly and expresly against the divine law and precept As for the ten Tribes who departed from the house of David they shined grievously in that they worshipped the Calves and that in a place of worship elected of themselves contrary to the word of God leaving and forsaking that place which the Lord bad chosen to himselfe They professed the true God and turned not aside to the gods of the Heathen and in that respect are called the house and family of the Lord 2 King 10.16.31 Hos 9 15. 1 King 12.31 Lev. 17.7 Hebr. Sep. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iun. demonibus Deu. 32.17 1 Cor. 10.10 Ex. 32.1.8 Acts 7.41 1 Cor. 10.7 1 King 12.28 and 14.9 2 Chron. 11.15 Heb. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 See Ainsw Annot. in Lev. 17.7 et Iun. ibid. Rainold de Idolola l. 2. c. 3. Isa 44. Qu. Co. pag. 61. CAN Sta. §. 3 pag. 18. Babingt in Lev. 17. See Iun. in Lev. 17.3 4 11. But as they sacrificed at Bethel and committed Idolatry in worshipping the Calves so their service was abominable and their Priesthood appointed for that service a meer nullitie and humane device Thus all the Jewes and Gentiles are said to sacrifice unto Divels who sacrificed in such sort and place as God had forbidden especially it they sacrificed unto Idols though in them they sacrificed unto the true God in their imagination as the Israelites had done when they made the golden Calse and sacrificed unto it and Ieroboams Idols are called Divels and he is said to make Priests for the high places and for Divels Further this Ordinance of God was typicall and did shadow forth Christ as the learned do observe and not without ground and warrant All Altars Sacrifices Priests and the Temple it selfe where the Altar stood were but types and shadowes of Christ You your selfe cite out of Bishop Babington that hereby was signified that only in the Church by faith in the chiefe high Priest Christ Jesus sacrifice and service accepted of God is and can be offered and done and no where els By the erudiments saith another Christ was shadowed among the Jewes and expiation made on the crosse by his blood From hence briefly let these things be observed 1 That the Jewes sinned by facrificing in the high places and the Israelites at Dan and Bethel because God had forbidden it expresly but against communicating in our assemblies no such prohibition can be brought forth which haply might bee the reason why you had rather say because they had no divine precept for it than because it was forbidden which yet you know to bee most certaine 2 Though it bee not lawfull to communicate with the people of God in their sins yet wee may partake in the ordinances of worship with such as offend grievously in the worship of God as the Prophets and faithfull communicated in the ordinances of God at Jerusalem with them that sacrificed upon the high places 3. That in Idolatrous and false Churches that which is meerely of men is vaine and fruitlesse and a meere nullitie but if among them something which is of God remaine it is not to bee esteemed a thing of nought 4 Wee must neither forsake all societies wherein wee espie many things repugnant to the Word of God nor cast off every thing in those societies wherewith we must not hold communion as false vaine and ineffectuall In Idolatrous societies Cyp. lib. 1. c. 4. The people must not partake with the sacrifice of a sacrilegious Priest there may be some truth which I must not cast away though I must not hold society in their Idolatry In the true Churches of Christ there may be diverse errors and abuses wherewith I must not communicate though I must live and hold fellowship in the society I am bound to keepe the unity of that living body S. B. Second ansvver pag. 20. whereof I am a member even with some inconvenience of sickenesse and unsound parts but I must not joyne my selfe to a strange body and so become a member of Satan 5. They that communicate in the Worship of God in our Assemblies doe neither bring a strange oblation nor goe to a place forbidden for the worship is of God and the Congregation assembled in his Name and he is there present to feast them that draw nigh unto him in truth of heart Can. Stay Sect. 3. Pag. 19. Ought we not to beleeve that as God had commanded us to worship Him that is to heare his Word receive the Sacraments and to use other His Ordinances so Hee hath also called and separated unto himselfe a Church a Communion of Saints and holy ones in and amongst whom these holy things are to be used and that we are to looke in what fellowship wee receive the holy things of God as what the things are we doe receive In a word ought we not to be perswaded that as the legall Sacrifices out of the Tabernacle or Temple within whose circle they were prescribed by the mouth of God were unlawfully offered so all the Ordinances and exercises of the Church under the Gospell done out of a true constituted Church are altogether and every way sinfull Deut. 12.5 6 7. ANSWER God hath separated unto himselfe a Church and amongst them hee is to bee worshipped according to his owne appointment But this Church is of larger extent than that which you call a true constituted Church wee reade that the Lord did chuse a certaine place for sacrifices Deut. 12.5 6 7. after which it was unlawfull to sacrifice in any other and so we read also that the remaindes of the Paschall Lamb was to be burnt and the flesh of the Ramme of Consecration with the bread that remained unto the morning Exod. 12.10 Exod. 29.34 Levit. 15.19 I yeeld the Scripture a witnesse of my sense and my exposition without the Scripture let it bee of no credit Orig. Hom. 9 in Jer. CAN. Necess of separ pag. 2 11. Can. Stay Epistle to the Reader Iohn 2.19 21. 2 Cor. 6.16 So
If the Church of Rome were not a Church in some respects but a meere Idoll the Pope could not be that Antichrist a principall rebell a notorious traitor against Christ If we speak absolutely or compare Rome with Churches truly Christian it is no true Church but the Synagogue of Satan But if we speake of it in opposition to the Jewes of Turkes or other professed Infidels it hath so much of a visible Church as a man cannot say it is no Church at all so much true doctrine is in it as sufficeth to support the title of Antichrist and some ordinances are so administred as that it cannot be said they are meer nullities In the true Church many wicked ones are found that are no lesse prophane sacrilegious enemies to peace the vassals of Satan possessed by the Divell dead in sin and accursed of God than heretiks or schismatiks who yet for that they have that order office or degree of ministerie which is holy doe no lesse nor with lesse effect administer the holy sacraments than those who are the samplars of all pietie and vertue The faithfull and holy Ministers administer and receive the Sacraments with good profit and benefit to themselves and others The hypocriticall with benefit to others not to themselves The prophane being not put from their places doe officiate with hurt to themselves scandall to others but to the everlasting comfort of them that partake worthily The hereticall and idolatrous administer the Sacraments that are holy and in their owne nature the meanes pledges and assurances of salvation but without benefit to themselves and others that continue in sin Thus the Prophets Apostles Martyrs and faithfull have held communion in the Ordinances of grace with such whose calling and conversation was not approved of God You say the Martyrs first and last would not receive this distinction lest to save their lives they should lose their soules and you reckon up many who as you write would rather give their bodies to the fire than heare or receive the Sacrament in false Churches or Societies But in this you lavish as in every thing else and hide the truth under the ambiguitie of the phrase The Martyrs laid downe their lives rather than they would defile themselves with idolatry bee present at the Masse or joyne themselves as members of that Antichristian Synagogue in all which they did as becommeth the faithfull servants of Jesus Christ But you cannot produce one Martyr of your opinion who denyed that any thing of God was to be found in those Assemblies or that refused to joyne in the pure ordinances of God with Societies separated from spirituall Babylon because of some defect or may me in their Church constitution In the whole Catalogue of Martyrs try if you can bring forth one who in these things was of your minde And what a vaine thing is it to pretend the example of all the Martyrs when there is not one among them that doth approve your cause If the example of the Martyrs be of any weight with you as here you beare the Reader in hand CAN Neces of separation p. 190 191 192. of necessitie you must condemne your rash and presumptuous censuring your unadvised sinfull separation from the worship and ministerie in our Church as Antichristian and Idolatrous For certaine it is the Martyrs stood members of our Societies and dyed in the defence of that doctrine and worship which we professe and practise Many words you spend in answer to this reason and reproaches you cast upon your adversarie but one word is not to be found that makes directly to take away the force of the Argument It was the answer of Frederick Duke of Saxonie who being prisoner to Charles the fifth and promised releasement if hee would goe to the Masse Summum in terris Dominum agnosco Caesarem in coclis Christum The like did the Prince of Condee but neither of them did refuse to joyne with the reformed Churches because they deemed their Church constitution defective or erroneous in this or that particular To pretend the consent of popish and protestant Divines in this matter is egregious ignorance or impudency for it is well knowne they are all generally of another minde Your instance from a City or Towne Similitudes bee no syllogismes Earthly similitudes of your making may not controll the heavenly precepts of Gods owne giving Bilson Christ part 4. pag. 322. Have you no surer ground of your catholike doctrine for adoring Images than a single similitude taken from the civill and externall reverence that is yeelded to Princes seates and seales Id p. 329. if the Civill power be usurped is not to the purpose nor true in all respects Not to the purpose because what is of God in these Societies is not done by power meerely usurped but by power and vertue from God though in the ministration that which is evill be not approved of God for wheresoever any supernaturall truth of Christian Religion is taught and any ordinances of grace dispensed truly for substance there is some truth of ministery though many wayes polluted And where the intire faith is professed and received and the ordinances of grace administred truly there is a true ministery for substance ordained of God what other defects or maimes soever it may labour under Not true because in the Civill estate That which is done by power usurped and unlawfull in some cases is a nullitie but in other some it is available and stands in force For it is a rule in the Civill law That it is one thing to be a true Magistrate another to bee in the Magistracy or to execute the Magistrates office From which distinction is gathered this generall ruled case or sentence That the acts of him that was a false or unlawfull Magistrate may be lawfull and just And the same may bee said and was ever held in the Church of God of corrupt and ungodly Ministers though they bee not true Ministers that is approved fit and rightly qualified yet so long as they be in the place of Ministers the acts of their ministery be good that is effectuall and of force if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by Christ CAN Stay Sect. 15. pag 133. The Lord hath not promised to them his blessing and acceptance what the Lord may accept or will we dispute not only this I say whosoever heareth in a false Church cannot by any promise that he hath in the word of God expect Gods blessing on that which he doth the reason is because a true constitution of a true Church that is where men are gathered according to the Gospell of Christ is that only lawfull religious societie or communion of Saints wherein God will be honoured whereby hee will bee served and whereto hee hath promised his presence and acceptance so then howsoever we are not bound unto hearing in a true Church necessitate medii as if Gods grace were tyed to the meanes this way
are notes and markes of a true and sound Church though somewhat crased in health and soundnesse by errors in doctrine corruptions in the worship of God and evils in life and manners A false Church is that which holds neither the truth of faith intirely nor the integrity of divine worship nor comely order which God hath appointed for the government of his house nor holinesse of conversation But addeth to the Articles of faith to that which is worshipped and to the substantiall means wherby God is worshipped and to the holy Commandements which God hath given for the direction of his people or detracteth and perverteth the right sense of faith not considering that which is worshipped as is meete mangling the Ordinances of God and transforming the lawfull manner of worship into another forme and inverteth the holy Commandement by corrupt glosses and sinister interpretations which destroyeth the life and power of godlinesse One false Church may bee more corrupt and rotten than another as being more deepely tainted in matters of higher importance and more generally than another as some may bee corrupt in matters of faith others in doctrine and worship both Ier. 2.11 13. 2 Reg. 16.3 1 Reg. 18.21 Ezek. 16.20 and some in all the particulars mentioned Thus Israel worshipped God and the Calves yea the Lord and Baal And as one false Church may be more corrupt than another Hen. Ains 2. part page 62. Did not the Priests rulers and people condemne the Prophets of God sent in all ages and vvas not Ierusalem the holy City seate of the Priest-hood guilty of their bloud Luke 13.33 34. vvas not vile and grosse Idolatry practised often in Judah and Jerusalem by the Priests and Princes Ezek. 23.11 Did not Iuda forsake the Lord and turne their faces from his Tabernacle shut the doores of his house quench his Lamps and neither burn Incense nor offer burnt offering in the Sanctuary unto the God of Jsrael 2 Chro. 29.6 7. Vriah the Priest made an Altar Idolatrous like that in Damascus and polluted Gods Worship in the Temple 2 Reg. 16.10 11 12 16. Pashur the sonne of Immer the Priest being Governour in the House of the Lord persecuted Ieremie for preaching the truth Jer. 20.1 2. and himselfe prophesied lyes ve 6. See Ier. 32.31 32 33 34 35 36. Mic. 3.11 Mal. 2.8 9. or at one time than another so one false Church may have more of God in it than another and at another time For the lesse grievous the errors are which the false Church holdeth or the lesse abominable the idolatry which it maintaineth the more divine truth it embraceth the more effectuall is that worship of God which it retaineth The true Church of God which is comparatively pure may be called false though improperly in respect of that corruption in doctrine and manners errours schismes divisions superstition or prophanenes which through humane frailty and negligence cleaveth unto it And a false Church may comparatively be called a Church true or pure in respect of them that be more grossely defiled as it hath more truth and purity in it Also the true Churches of God have sometimes bin distinct visible societies from the false Churches and by many degrees in themselves more pure from tincture and infection than at other times and some others have beene As in the dayes of Abiah Iudah was by many degrees more free from pollution than afterwards In Pauls time the integrity of Rome was famous Corinth many wayes reproved They of Galatia much more out of square But the true and Orthodox Church hath sometimes beene so mixed with others in outward society that it hath beene hard to find in the whole world a distinct Congregation of sound and intire professors of all supernaturall truths who joyned in the use of Gods Holy Ordinances but the members of the true visible Church were dispersed and scattered and mingled with false Christians or false worshippers in society and the true Church lay hid in the false Now to apply these things 1. If by a false Church you understand a Church erring in points of faith exceeding dangerous and corrupting the pure worship of God with reall Idolatry with whom the faithfull may not lawfully hold Communion yet then that which they have of God amongst them though not rightly administred is effectuall by the blessing of GOD according to promise As Baptisme administred by the Heretikes holding the forme of Baptisme and of Popish Priests is true Baptisme and not to be reiterated For one and the same society may in one sense have somewhat of the true Church and in another bee the Synagogue of Satan and their Ministers exercise the Ministery and service of Christ when they themselves bee the bond-slaves of Satan It is true God threatens to destroy such societies and is highly displeased with the service that is done there as such because it is not done as it ought but as he is pleased to continue his Ordinance so he is pleased to give it force and validity according to his institution And it is not strange that God should bee displeased with a thing not done according to his institution when the institution it selfe hee doth approve and blesse to some according to his free covenant 2. If by a false Church you understand a Church maimed and corrupt with errors in doctrin and manners neglect of discipline disorders in Ministers and people then as occasion may bee offered Christ hath bound the faithfull to bee present at his ordinances in such Assemblies and promised to blesse them that draw nigh unto him therein In the Church of Corinth there were Divisions Sects Emulations 1 Cor. 3.3 1 Cor. 6.1 2. 2 Cor. 10.10 1 Cor. 15.12 1 Cor. 5.1 1 Cor. 11.19 20. contentions and quarrels going to Law one with another for every trifle and that under Infidels Pauls name and credit was despitefully called into question there the resurrection of the dead was denyed by some that wickednesse was there wincked at which was not heard of among the heathen the Lords Supper was horribly profaned things indifferent used with offence 2 Cor. 12.20 21. Ambr. in 1 Cor. 11 They stood striving for their oblations Hier. in 1 Cor. 11. In Ecclesia convenientes oblationes suas separatius offerebant Apoc. 2.4 5 6. Apoc. 3.20 21. Fornication not repented of and idolatry practised in eating meats sacrificed to Idols in the Idoll Temple And all this notwithstanding the assemblies were kept the faithfull frequented the Ordinances and God did blesse them according to promise Ephesus was extreamly decayed in her first love and though threatned to have her candlesticke removed unlesse she repent Christ doth never lay his charge upon the faithful to depart from his Ordinances Of Laodicea it is said that she was neither hot nor cold and then we may easily conceive she was overgrown with corruptions the proper fruits of negligence security selfe conceitednesse c. For which unlesse she
dist 93 ca 24 dist 95 can 5. Gratian par 2 c 9 qu 2 c. Lugdunens Calvin Justit l 4 c 2 s 11. Chamier panstr Tom 2 l 16 cap. 4 S. 9. Iun animad in Bel de cleric c 14 not 2 c 3 not 59 Chamier Ibid c. 6 s 11. Sed Catholici negaut consquentiā sciunt posse illa omnia extare in media haeresi inter Apostatas Quod si nostri negari incipient Apostatae cur Fararius cur ejus Mecaenas Jacobus Davius nunc Cardinalis non renunciarunt Baptismo apud nos quos ille disputat apostasiam fecisse recepto non jusserunt se denuo ting Author imperfect oper in Mat. hom 49. Omnia haes quae sunt proprie Christi inberitate habent haereses illae inschismate similiter Ecclesias similiter ipsas Scripturas Diviras similiter Episcopos caterosque ordines Clericorum similiter Eucharistiam caetera omnia c. And hereof the grounds and reasons are evident For on the one side it appeareth the Ancient Church did not hold her Constitutions to be absolutely essentiall to the calling of a Minister or to the semper esse thereof as if the omission or non-observation thereof did make them no Ministers Bishops by the Ancient Constitutions of the Church were to be ordained by three other Bishops neere adjoyning But instances there be manefest that the Church hath dispensed with these Canons Pelagius the first as Anastasius writeth in vitâ Pelagij was consecrated of two Bishops only Iohannes de Perusio Bomu de Ferentino Anareas Presbyter de Ostio Evagrius Bishop was consecrated of Paulinus onely Moses refusing to bee ordained of Lucius was created Bishop of them who were banished into the mountaines The Bishops of France only Dionysius ordained It is an humane constitution saith Iohannes Major that a Bishop should be ordayned of three invented for solemnity not as absolutely necessary Presbyters or Elders were ordained by the Bishop The rest of the Presbyters then present laying on their hands But seeing Bishops were greater than Presbyters rather by the Custome of the Church than by divine institution this was not simply required to the essence of ordination but according to the Custome and Ecclesiasticall Ordinances The Chorepiscopi also who were nothing but Presbyters were allowed to ordaine by the leave of the Bishop And on the other side if they bee not lawfull Ministers who receive their Ordination from Bishops the Churches of God throughout the world have beene destitute of lawfull Ministers for the space of this foureteene or fifteene hundred yeares which the Non-conformists will never affirme As Rome it selfe is a Church as the Church is opposed to Turkes and Infidels and as Heretickes specially they whose opinions are not in specie as they say pernicious CAN Stay § 2. pag. 11. are the Church So in Rome and amongst Heretickes so much truth of Ministery is found as the acts they doe are not voyd altogether and of none effect The doctrine of the Nicolaitaus which was that adultery and fornication were no sinnes and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their Idol Temples Iren. l. 1. c. 27. Epiphan 1. Tom. 1. Was not you say in the judgment of the Churches at Pergamus Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be born withal If Pergamus and Thyatyra so grievously corrupted were true Churches The receiving of Ordination from the hands of a Bishop doth not so leaven the Ministery as to make a nullity thereof or make it unlawfull for others to joyn therewith in the worship of God A Bishop ordained per saltum P. Aureolus in 4. Sent. dist 24 art 2 Capreolus dist 25 art 2. Cusan concord cathol lib. 1. cap 4. Membrum suo officio non contentum sed cupicus prae ripere alienum conturbat corporis ordinem totum c. sic singulorum ornamenta non sunt alijs congrua sed unumquodque requirit sua abijcit aliena Gratian. dist 89 cap. 1. They that hold the Office of Bishops to be of GOD do hold that the Church ceaseth not to be a Church in which this degree is not to be found that never had the Ordination of a Presbyter can neither consecrate and administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper nor ordaine a Presbyter himselfe being none nor doe any act peculiarly appertaining to Presbyters Ordination therefore is reserved to the Bishop not in respect of superiority in degree of ministery above his brethren for if he be no Presbyter he cannot make Presbyters but for order sake and to prevent Schism and division being for substance of the same order and Consecration with them If one member in the body challenge to it selfe that office which belongeth to many it breeds some disorder and confusion but makes not a nullity of that which is done Succession in the Apostles Doctrine is an essentiall and unchangeable note of the Church which wheresoever it is found doth argue truth of ministery in that society for the Preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments to draw men to internall Communion For that particular Church is the true Church of Christ which retayneth unity with the Catholickes sc the unity of the head the unity of the body the unity of Doctrine and unity of the Spirit Iohan. Major l. 2. hist de gest Scotor cap. 2. scribit Scotos per sacerdotes Monachos sine Episcopis in fide eruditos esse usque ad An. Dom. 429. adeo ut Ecclesia scotitae plusquam 230 annos floruerit absque regimine Episcopali Nam Religionem Christianam suscepit Scotiae An. Dom. 203. ficu◠consentiunt Historic◠omnes Ames Bel enerv tom 2. de Eccles Forb Iren. lib 2. cap. 11 prop. 10. Bilson perpetuall Church Government Epistle to the Reader I have alwayes had before mine eyes the most of them are Brethren for the truths sake c A. W. Ansvver to late popish Articles page 73. Iun animadv in Bel cont 5 l. 1. cap. 3. The right and povver of giving Ordination to the Ministers of the Church belongeth primarily vvholly to Christ vvho communicateth the same vvith his Bride the Church Both the Bridegroome for his part and the Bride for her part have delivered this povver of Ordination to the Presbytery jure divino afterward the Presbytery conferred jure humano this power upon them who were specially called Bishops c. Aerius was called an Heretike in the time of Epiphanius not for his opinion but for his separation which he made together with it For so the Fathers of the first Constantinopolitane Councell Can. 6. which in the booke of Canons is 169. Haereticos autem dicimus eos qui olim ab Ecclesia abdicati sunt qui postea a nobis anathemati 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praeter hos autem qui se sanam quidem fidem profiteri 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 subassumunt segregaverunt autem sese
any spirituall communion with it Truely it would make a man admire if he should understandingly compare together the writings of these two companies touching a Church ministery For in their opinious about it they are as contrary each to other as light to darkenesse Christ to Belial righteousnesse to unrighteousnesse notwithstanding though so different in judgement yea they will communicate together in one ministery but one of these against knowledge offend surely let them look well to it For to him that knoweth to doe good and doth it not to him it is sinne that is his fault is so much the more and propertionably his condemnation shall be without repentance ANSWER Instead of sound arguments wee have here your rash and unadvised censure the one of these you say against knowledge offend surely But what evidence can you bring to justifie this condemnatorie sentence or how can you reconcile your selfe unto your selfe herein CAN Necess of separat page 30. August de civ Dei lib. 5. c. 17. Nihil est loquacius vanitate quae non ideo potest quod van tas quia si volue it plus etiam clamare potest quam veretas Here you tell us the Conformists many of them at least offend not against their Conscience and formerlie you expresse your Charitie to the Non-conformists that although their practice is not strictsie answerable to their profession and therefore doe give just occasion to the Prelates to insinnate against them hypocriticall ends yet you for your part are other wise minded than the Bishops in this thing and doe thinke that they doe of Conscience condemne the state of that Church but doe not maturely consider the responsive conclusions which follow upon their principles These were your thoughts then and what should occasion this sudden change And if you will weigh what you have written of necessity you must accuse your selfe of grosse inconsideratenesse in saying you know not what and perverting mens words of all sorts or of sinne against Conscience if you write what you know to be false Considering how you deale in both your bookes throughout I scarce know an Author who hath more need to look home than your selfe It is true the Conformists and Non-conformists have written on both sides one against the other in matters of Church Government and Ceremonies and perhaps with bitternesse more than beseemeth wherein alwayes the forwardest men have not been of the greatest judgment or best moderation And therefore every thing that is written must not be interprered as the judgment of all or most of either side but as the private opinion of the pen-man which falleth out in all controversies amongst all sorts But whatsoever outcry you make of contrarieties there is no point of that weight and moment controverted betwixt them as might justly hinder communion together in the Ordinances of Religion If their contention had broken forth to such an head they might have beene answered more justly the one or both sides to offend of furie if not against conscience The Conformists you say keepe much better to their grounds than the other doe Calfeh against Mar. cap. 1. pag. 21. b. Somebuild timber and hey and stubble yet must vvee not take the hope of Gods mercy from such evill car penters as lay so rotten a covering upon so sure a building whereas othervvise they offending in tristes be sound enough in other matters and stick to Christ the only substantiall and true foundation for they consesse down right that their Ministerie is from the Church of Rome It seemeth you did neither much care nor enquire what they professe else you might have seene they say and professe in this point as the others doe The Conformists I use that word because you are pleased so to speake maintaine against the Papists that the first Bishops who laboured reformation in this kingdome did receive their ordination from Romish Bishops and had such calling as was to be found in that Church But doe they only acknowledge so much was not this evermore received for a truth in the ancient Church that ordination received from heretikes not erring in the maine fundamentall truths directly was true and effectuall Doe not all reformed Churches which have separated from the abominations of Rome professe that the first reformers amongst them received some ordinary calling in the Church of Rome which remained in that time of the visible Church corrupted For some of them were Bishops some Priests and Doctors approved of the Vniversities and ordinarie Churches many of them preached the Gospell and administred the Sacraments before excommunication or persecution raised by the Adverfaries in that they were sent unto or set over severall Churches or congregations in which they ought to execute their office or ministration therein they received commandement to preach the Gospel If men that sent them did mix anything else to their calling they must be obedient to divine institution not to humane addition So being after an ordinary manner sent of God singularly they were extraordinarily stirred up of him to promote and set forward his kingdome Rivet Cathol Orthe tract 2. q 8. s 3 Belthaz Lydias no. in disp Tabari c. 11. Whit de ecc q. 5. c. 6. Bucer Siquid boni fuit in successione vocatione ordinatione Ecclesia jum cum primos nostros doctores Deminus excitavit id totum in illis si fuisse dixerimus quid cantra obycient poâ—lificit Num exim cedo vel Judaei vel Turcae vel Barbari ac prophans homines de reformanda Ecclesia prim verba facere ac non potius viri gravissimi doctissimi que Ecclesia passoris Thus Luther Hus Wickliffe and others were called both ordinarilie and extraordinarilie an ordinary calling they received in a corrupt Church and extraordinarily they were stirred up to fulfill the Ministerie they had received according to the commandement of God and not after the traditions of men It is generally received for a truth at this day that Baptisme administred by heretikes who erre not in the maine fundamentall truths of Baptisme In the ordination of bishops it is said Interrogamus te si omnem prudentiam tuam quantum tua capax est natura divinae scripturae sensibus accommoder evolueris vis ea quae ex divinis scripturis intelligis plebem cui ordinanduses verbis docere exemplis Accipe Euangesiâ— vade praedica populo tibi commâ—sso or deny not the essentiall forme of Baptisme is true for substance And if Baptisme be true and must bee reverenced as Gods ordinance deserveth there is some truth of Ministerie amongst them They that thinke the basest of Rome will acknowledge the Baptisme administred by Priests and Jesuites to bee true for substance And if the Baptisme of God may bee received or derived from their Ministerie it is no absurditie to affirme that the first seekers of reformation derived authoritie from God to preach the Word and administer the Sacraments by their Ministerie
hateth to be reformed is a false Minister and hath nothing to doe to take the covenant of God into his mouth but the Word preached by a treacherous Judas proud Diotrephes covetous Demas or one that envieth the prosperitie of Saints and peace of Ierusalem is not an Idolatrous act If it be Idolatrous in him that performeth it yet it doth not follow that it is idolatrous in them that joyne in the ordinance Let it bee idolatrous in the priests who despise knowledge and live prophanely put case Elies sons to offer sacrifice it is idolatrous likewise for the people to appeare before God in his holy Temple That Vzziah committed a grievous offence when he invaded the Priests office all men thinke In what respect all men conceive it to be an idolatrous act I cannot say but all false Ministers do not usurpe the Priests office as Vzziah nor all things done by false Prophets Ex. 30.7 8. Psal 141.2 Apoc. 8 3. Moller in Ps 141.2 Heris ibid. Deod Bibâ— Ital. annot in Psa 141.2 Apoc. 8.3 Oriin Ios hom 17. tom 1. Est in coelis all re Paschal Rhadbert in Lam. Ier. l. 2. Biblioth pat tom 9. paâ—t 1. Christus altare â—â—edi uâ— esse hostia sacrifiâ—ium pont fex sacerdos Ambr. Enar. in Ps 118. Greg. Magan Psa 7 paenit Altare Domini Christus An. Ex of Dâ—â— censure art 15 p. 19. to be matched with Vzziahs offering incense For the offering of Incense was typicall and might be a shadow of Christs intercession and so the act of Vzziah might be Idolatrous and in that particular directly crosse to the institution of God But many Church actions typifie no such thing Vzziah had no calling to offer incense but some false Ministers may have some calling to administer the things of God though they be not approved of God Vzziah could not offer incense in any respect by authoritie from God but a false Minister in one respect may be called of God in some other to doe an act ministeriall that is by authoritie from God hee may doe some acts for substance lawfull and effectuall though the Minister himselfe be not approved Thus the Nonconformists upon whose grounds you pretend to build your conclusions let it be as the censure reporteth that his words are of a Minister which cannot preach Doth he doubt whether he be in any respect a a Minister or no because he saith if I may so call him Indeed this manner of speaking declareth that he judgeth him that cannot preach a man unworthy to bee a Minister but he doth not deny him altogether But in your esteeme all Ministers not called and ordained of that particular Church whereunto they doe administer and performing their authoritie by vertue and authoritie derived from them are false Ministers because all other administer by power usurped and Antichristian which is with one breath to blast all the worship and service which hath beene done unto God in the congregations of his Saints for this fourteene or fifteene hundred yeares or more CAN. Stay Sec. 5. pag. 76. It is very true said of one Lavater In Iosh 22 hom 63. we ought not to conclude of an action that it is good because it hath in it something which in it selfe is so and this is true as in things divine Omne totum suis partibus ordinatur mensuratur determinatur so in humane too For it is a knowne tenent of Philosophers The whole is composed measured and determined of all the parts ANSWER It is true an action is not good Aqu. 1.2 qu. 8. art 3. Cameron pralâ—ct Tom. 2. p. 49. Amb Catharin in the Councell of Trent l. 2. p. 224. CAN. Stay Sect. 6 page 85. Rutgers instit Metaphys l. 2. cap. de Bon. Quemadmodum convenientia ad rationalem Naturam â—â—ve dictamen rectae rationis consurgit in actu honesto ex bonitate objecti finis aliarum circumstantiarum ita contraria disconvenientia seu defectus in malo culpae consurgit ex defectu illorum in actione ita ut si vel minimum contrariuÌ„ desit actus exeostatim reddatur culpabilis five pectaminosus Dionys dixit Bonum est ex integra causa malum autem ex quolibet defectu Revet in Hosea 4.14 p. 152. Iob 14 4. Hag. 2 12 13. See Iun. iâ— loe unlesse all circumstances required to the doing of a good act be observed but the act good in it-selfe is evill in the doer if one circumstance bee evill For every thing that is morally good must be conformable to the rule which that which is defective in any part required cannot be But how shall this bee applyed to the purpose Is every deficient act forthwith Idolatrous Or that which is by circumstance unlawfull in the doer because of his failing unlawfull to every one that doth communicate with him in the Ordinance but not in the defect If a Minister preach Christ of envie doe they sinne that heare sincerely and receive the truth in love If a man give almes in vaine-glory doth the poore man sinne who receives it in humilitie and thanksgiving An action done in one forme and manner may be sinne which in another forme and manner is the true worship of God which may be observed of him that is present in our Assemblies CAN. Ibid. As Iob saith who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane Not one But the false office is uncleane as is acknowledged And this further may bee amplified by that passage of the Prophet where it is shewed That holy things are polluted by touching things which are uncleane ANSWER That which is uncleane cannot causally univocallie and properlie bring forth that which is cleane but instrumentally it may A profane Minister may be the instrument of God to convert a sinner from the errour of his way and indispensation of the Sacrament seale to the worthy receiver the pardon of his sinne though he himselfe reape no profit or benefit thereby For herein the good that is wrought is not effected by any vertue or power in the Minister who is the Lords Officer or instrument but by the power of Gods Spirit and his free grace who knoweth how to use and blesse evill instruments for his owne purpose An uncleane Officer or person pollutes the holy things of God to himselfe but not to others who use them in faith according to the Lords appointment Why you should referre us to Iunius annotations I see not unlesse it be to shew us your forwardnesse to quote Authors which make nothing to your purpose For all that Iunius observeth is this That the Iewes being impure and polluted in heart did receive no sanctitie from the touch of Temple or Altar CAN. IBID. If in preaching the truth no Idolatrous act is performed then it will follow Ibid. Sect. 11. p. 116 They need not by his vvriting leave their unblessed standing For so they preach the truths of the Gospell they sinne not And then
of God 2. Their qualification for this office their care in execution and other accessories which may be added of man If for substance of office their calling be of God wee are bound to hold communion with them though in the qualification execution and other adhering circumstances some things bee amisse which it is not in our power to redresse This our Saviour Christ hath expressely taught and made knowne unto uâ— both by his Doctrine and example as hath beene shewed already Hereunto this one thing may be added that many Pastors and teachers in the Church of England be called qualified and doe carry themselves in their charges and places according to the direction of IESVS CHRIST the chiefe shepheard of his sheepe and other for substance of Ministery are Pastors and Teachers CAN Stay Sect. 6. pag 79. If to heare Antichristian Ministers bee to serve God in and by an Ordinance If in preaching the truths of the Gospel in a false Church no Idolatry bee done then may a man vvorship God in a vvay of his ovvne devising blamelesse Id. §. 5. page 77. way or institution devised by Idolaters and with Idolaters then it is unlawfull But the first is true Therefore the second The proposition is undeniable by the Treatisers owne confession you should have said the assumption for if the Treatisers words prove ought they must be applyed thereunto As for the proposition they speake not to it at all But forwardnesse here and in many other places hath made you forget your tearmes of Art He that heares the Ministers of the Bishops sending and of the Parishes sent to he heares in the sense of the Scripturs false Prophets Id page 81. Such as hearken to Antichrists Ministers do therein approve of Antichrists unlavvfull povver over the false Church and the Divels donation or his putting of that povver into his eldest sonâ— hâ—nd Id. §. 6. p. 84. But it is not lawfull to heare false Prophets The Major is proved clearly in defencâ— of our twelfth objection The Minor is certaine by these reasons 1. The hearing of false Prophets is forbidden in the word of God c. ANSWER You busie your selfe to weave the Spiders web which is good for little long in weaving but soone swept downe Our Ministers be not Antichristian Ministers nor false Prophets in the Scriptures sense because they preach the whole counsell of God in all points necessary to salvation and rightly dispense the seales of the Covenant by authoritie derived from Jesus Christ the Lord and King oâ— his Church the great Shepheard of his Sheep At least they are set apart to this office which was never deemed Antichristian in the Church of Christ But if we take these words Antichristian Ministers and false Prophets in your sense for you use them in a peculiar dialect then it is not only lawfull but necessary to heare such as you call Antichristian Ministers For it is commanded in the word and acceptable service unto God the meanes to build up the Church It is to hold communion with God to reverence his name to lay hold upon Christ and lodge him in our bosome It sheweth that a man is one of Christs sheep because hee heareth his voice and a member of his sheepfold the servant of the most high God it manifesteth love and zeale to God and is ordinarily blessed to the soul and conscience of the dutifull hearer And in that which you alledge to the contrary you misalledge Scripture speak evill of the truth revile the heritage of the Lord and grievously wound your owne conscience The religion professed and worship performed in our assemblies is true not only in respect of the object but of nature use and end and whatsoever circumstances are necessarilie required to lawfull worship And the false Prophets mentioned in Scripture are of one sort yours of an other even the true Ministers of Jesus Christ But let us turne over to the twelvth objection to heare the cleare proofe of that which here you affirme for thither you send us CAN Stay §. 12. p. 116 117. The Treatiser as you call him propounding this objection of yours that the Scriptures of the old and new Testament warne Gods people of false prophets which the Ministers of that Church are having an unlawfull calling maketh answer 1 By denying that the Scriptures warn men simply not to hear false Prophets i.e. any false prophet whatsoever And then propounds a distinction of fals Prophets that some fals Prophets were in the Church of God and these might be heard as they had place in the Church till they were orderly repressed or at least discovered others were not in the Church but simply without and these were not to be heard This is the plaine and direct answer of the Treatiser as every man may perceive that is not grosly ignorant or wilfully blind But see how you jest and dally with it unconscionably when you had nothing to answer 1. You say he peremptorily denyeth the whole objection and so consequently affirmes that all false Prophets may be heard But what new Logicke is this whereby we may learne to draw such consequences In former times it hath beene thought reasonable to deny an universall negative or affirmative proposition when they hold not true in all Individuals No false prophet is to be heard This proposition may justly be benyed if any false Prophet may be heard though all might not 2 You adde presently and with the same breath He unsaith what hee said before But this is a palpable and grosse calumny For he said not that all false Prophets might be heard by all nor denyeth what hee granted at the first that some may be heard but plainly implyeth a distinction of false Prophets which I can hardly thinke you did not perceive though you be pleased so to pervert his words If there appeare any deep and inextricable riddle in the words you may fitly apply to your selfe what in this very place you report of Marcus Antonius's souldiers who unawares fell upon an hearb that greatly distempered their heads You tell us Id pag. 116. The Treatiser since he lighted upon his Gourd he is not like himselfe in his other writings and I can easily believe it for in his other writings for separation he is insolent censorious scornfull and slighty In this mild Christian and for the most part more substantiall As you deale with your Treatiser to scorne what you cannot answer so you doe with others in this very argument and that much more absurdlie Master Br. in maintenance of the Ministerie of the Church of England The unreasonab of separation p. 2 3 4 7. as it is established by Law distinguisheth betweene the substance of the Ministerie and the execution thereof the essentiall parts of the Ministery and some accidentall circumstances adhering unto them by man For substance saith he the present Ministerie of our Church assemblies is the very Ministerie which Christ hath set in
his Church howsoever it may in some particular parts of the execution happily bee defective in some places The ordinarie ministerie of our Church is the ordinarie and perpetuall Ministerie given by Christ to his Church Id pag. 10. and such as the Princes of the earth are bound by Gods law to protect and maintaine And if there be any corruption in and about the same which they ought to abolish it is accidental or personall Page 8. and not essentiall to destroy the true nature of the ministerie of God And though it should be granted that our people stand under some kinde of observances and offices which in their own nature and first originall are in some kind Antichristian yet such a manner of standing cannot be said to overthrow though it somewhat staine the Ministery of Christ Thus is the substance of the answer throughout the booke CAN Neces of Separ p. 216 217. But how doe you confute or take away this distinction or weaken the force of this answer That you doe not once assay by Scripture or sound reason but you cry out of shifts and trifling and contradictions beggerly I sayâ—s or ifs base maintenance of the vilest abominations and justification of corruptions generally condemned by the same carnall and corrupt reasons which the Prelates use to doe That it serves to strengthen the hands of the wicked Id. pag. 220. grieve the hearts of the righteous and to discover his owne vile halting and double dealing The dumb dogs caterpillars and idle bellies never had a better proctor than this man to pleade for their unlawfull standing For he saith The Magistrate is bound to protect their Ministerie But how can wee believe him seeing the Nonconformists teach otherwise The rest of your answer is of the same marke which for shame I will not stand to confute You say any one may see by his worke Page 22â— that he meant not to tye his conscience short but would make a little bold with it or the present and so he might fetch over a sure blow upon us He cared not though with every stroke hee made wounds through the sides of his brethren But if you be able bring forth one sentence wherein the indifferent may see that hee hath made bold with his conscience or made the least wound in the side of any brother wherein he hath contradicted himselfe or the nonconformists justified any abomination pleaded for any corruption or spoken one word in defence of dumbe dogs caterpillars or idle bellies And if you cannot do this let the indifferent judge whether you have not offered violence to your conscience and made bold to wound your soule that you might defame the Ministerie of the Gospell and slander the gifts of God in his servants This practice is Antichristian borrowed from the vilest bondslaves of that man of sinne if not from Satan himselfe But I will not defend the Treatisers opinion nor trouble my selfe further to examine your answer to Master Br. That which I am to enquire into is How you prove all the Ministers of the Church of England in respect of their office and standing to be false Prophets or Antichristian If ought can be found to this purpose bare words excepted CAN Stay sect 12 pag. 119 120. If an unlawfull outward calling make an unlawfull Minister then it makes a false Prophet For according to the Scriptures it is all one thing only expressed in divers terms c. We know no meane betweene true Prophets and false for whosoever is not a true Prophet is a false Prophet Id. p. 121. and whosoever is a false Prophet cannot be a true Prophet of God He that is of God is a true Prophet he that is of the Devill is a false Prophet neither doth the deliverie and utterance of some truths make him a true Prophet for then the Devill should be a true Prophet who sometimes speakes the truth albeit to a sinister end Balaam was a very witch a wizard a false Prophet a true sorcerer famous or rather infamous for his Divellish magick which he practised among the wicked idolatrous nation So Attersol and many others so too as Junius Simpson Ferus Canutus and before them Origen Greg. Nazianzene Basil ANSWER As for Balaam whether he were a Witch Wizard or Magician it is not materiall to the point in hand If the Treatiser did put that instance amisse it will not follow that you have truly proved the Ministers of the Church of England to be false Prophets or soundly confuted what hee answered for himselfe And if the Treatisers friends be of your disposition you may soone heare from them that you have answered nothing for you have brought the sayings and opinions of men but reason out of the Scripture you have alledged none to prove him simply a Witch and a false Prophet And if the opinions and sayings of men will serve the turne there bee some that have thought Balaam to be a Prophet of God Tertul. cont Marc. lib. 4. Numb 22.19 2â— 7 Iosh 13.22 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Trem. Iun Divinum id est qui divinat and that for reasons not to be disregarded Tertullian amongst others thought Balaam to be a true Prophet and such a Prophet as should be numbred among the servants of God because he professeth that he would aske counsell of God and that he would speake nothing but what God should say unto him And he doth not only say so but indeed he propoundeth those things which he had received of God and which consent with truth and pietie In Scripture he is called a Diviner which word is sometimes used in a good sense to note one that doth prophesie true things or wisely and truly divine things to come Prov. 16.10 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In. Sagac Pisc Divinatio i.e. quasi divinaâ—io hoc est sogatitas qualis est divinantium Mercer in Prov. 16.10 Isaia 3.3 Iun. Sagacem Pisc Heb. Divinatorem sed hic accipitur in bonam parâ—em Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Conjectorem Hieron ariolum Dovvay Southsayer Moller 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est quâ—d hoc loco in bonampartem accipitur Car. in Prov. 16.10 quidem frequentissimè in Scriptura usu patur in malam partem pro his qui artibus Diaboâ—iâ—is abdita rimantur sed aliquando etiam ut Isa 13. Ezek. 13.6 usurpatur in bonam partem pro his qui aliquid aâ—cani proponunt quod legitimè vel revelatione divinâ vel solerti mvestigatione assequuti sunt Divination or a wise sentence is in the lips of Kings The Judge and the Prophet the Diviner and the old Man The Prophets divine for silver Mic. 3.11 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Num. 27.7 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Vulg. precium divinationis 2 Per. 2.15 Numb 23.27 See Rainold censur praelect 201 B. Hieron alibi nullam illustriorem de adventâ—â— Domini extare prophetiam dicit sci
quam Bileami Qui inter quaestiones Christianorum hanc fuisse docet cur Balaam tam manifesta de Christo praedixisset Quem ipse ad Iob 32. de cognitione Abrahan ifuâ—sse docet D. Heins exâ—rcit sacr in Mat. 2. which is spoken of the Prophets in Judah Neverthelesse seeing he is called a Diviner as they are said to take divinations in their hands scil the wages of iniquitie and as there is no divination against Israel that is magicall incantations cannot availe against Jsrael whom God doth protect with his presence I doe rather subscribe to them who conceive that he was a Witch or Wizard than the prophet of God Neither doth the deliverie and utterance of some truth make a true prophet for the Heathen Witches and Wizards nay the Divel himselfe hath spoken some truth that he might the better deceive But as the possession of all supernaturall truth necessarie to salvation is proper to the Church so to preach the whole counsell of God unto his people is the speciall badge of a true Prophet and the fruit whereby hee is knowne Marke this well for to use your owne phrase it sheweth all your answer to be coecum insomnium a vain dream and nothing else It is the note of a false Prophet to run when God doth not send him But can it be shewed that ever Minister did teach the whole counsell of God unto his flocke â—er 14.14 23.21 27.15 Vnreasonabl of separation p. 6. Though it be no new thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in divers things bring the truth with them yet this is a new thing and never heard of before That the Ministers of Antichrist should teach the whole truth of Iesus Christ for the substance therof That they should oppose directly and zealously against the maine and fundamentall doctrines of Antichrist c. 〈◊〉 42.19 who was not sent of God The places cited make it evident that they whom God did not send they taught false things in his name as they run when he sent them not so they prophesied when he spake not unto them In some cases it is true the Church for a time may bee without Ministers as when the pastor is taken away by death or the Church dispersed by persecution or the people negligent to procure teachers and the like But ordinarily the Church is not destitute of true Ministers nor is there a true ministerie to be found but in the Church And therefore seeing the societie professing the true faith intirely and holding the communion of Saints is the true Church the Ministers teaching sound doctrine in those societies and maintaining the unitie of the Spirit must of necessitie be true Ministers But every unlawfull Minister say you is a false Prophet for these two are all one This is spoken ambiguously and must be distinguished before any direct judgement can bee passed upon it What then doe you understand by unlawfull Minister Is he an unlawfull Minister who is not approved of God designed by Christ qualified as he ought chosen orderly but out of favour partialitie faction or schisme Or is he an unlawfull Minister who teacheth corruptly seeketh not that which was lost bindeth not up that which was broken puts not the weake into his bosome grieveth the godly strengtheneth the hands of the wicked and walketh prophanely Is he an unlawfull Minister who being a secret heretike CAN Necess of Separation page 237. If one bee ordained a Pastor according to Christs institution hee hath certainly lawfull ministerie howsoever things shall afterward fall out yeâ— though hee should sing Masse and Mattens as hee speaketh But hee asketh if any that is in his wits will say so yes and prove it also and if hee himselfe had not wanted some wit in this point he would not thus have confounded one thing so absurâ—ly with another for as a person may bee a servant or subject truly and fully and yet doe afterwards the actions of thieves rebels traitors so a man may take a true Ministerie by ordination and yet in his life and doctrine doe wickedly and â—â—serve justly to be deposed is chosen and ordained by the communitie where hee is to administer without due tryall and examination or being rashly and unadvisedly elected doth after neglect his dutie altogether teach perverse things administer coruptly sing Masse and Mattens If none of these be unlawfull Ministers in your esteeme it will be no losse to us if we grant the proposition for we may boldly affirme if you search our Ministerie with a candle and lanthorn it will bee found true and of God If you take a false prophet and unlawfull Minister in that strict sense as to exclude all the former there is not one Minister a member of our Church that can be a false Prophet If you take all these for unlawfull ministers then all unlawfull Ministers are not false prophets in your account Or else it is lawfull to hold communion with some false prophets which you peremptorily would seeme to deny The want of an outward calling you say makes a man an unlawfull minister and so you might say Ier. 2.8 Ter. de praescript advers Haeret. c. 36. Vnde autem extranâ—i inimici Apostoâ—iâ— haeretici nisiâ—ex diversitate doctrinae quam unusquisque de suo arbitrio adversus Apostolos aut protulit aut recepit doth the want of right qualification and conscionable discharge of his duty for God hath threatned both the one and the other that they shall be no priests unto him both the one and the other are idols in phrase of Scripture But he can not be a minister in a societie of Christians professing the true and intire faith and enjoying the blessing of the Sacraments who is utterly destitute of an outward calling In some Churches the calling is more compleat and exact than in others and at some times things have beene more orderly handled than at others but in all Churches there is an outward calling and effectuall to the truth of the ministerie Long since it was objected against the Nonconformists that they say the Gospell is not truly preached in England because there is no lawfull calling to the ministerie whereunto they have returned this answer We do not say that there is no lawfull or no ordinarie calling in England for we doe not deny but that he may be lawfully called which is not ordinarily as Luther Melancthon Zuinglius and there bee places in England where the Ministers are called by their parishes in such sort as the examples of Scripture doe shew to have been done before the Eldership and government of the Church was established T.C. repl 1. answ to the exhor p. 3. I know not any that saith the Gospell is not truly preached in England and by those that are not of the same judgement that the admonition to the Parliament is of CAN. Necess of Separ pag. 55. The Ministery of England as it is established by law doth
or standing of honour in the house of GOD have they cause to aske pardon of this also if they shall thinke their ministerie may be effectuall to the faithfull A Minister lawfully called say you according to Christs institution is incontinently upon his outward lawfull calling a true Minister let his practices afterward be good or bad Put case then the Church should accuse such a Minister utterly neglecting his charge or inclining to say Masse and Mattens or loose and scandalous in behaviour as unworthie his place and office have they just cause to crave pardon of him because they acknowledged him to be a Minister but unworthily Many abuses not to be tolerated may cleave to the Ministery when the ministerie it selfe is not to be cast off as altogether ineffectuall SECTION 9. CAN Necess of Separ pag. 27.28 The Learned generally affirme Rhem. annoâ— in Iâ— 10. anno 1. and in 1. Cor. 10. Sect. 22. that it is unlawfull to communicate in a false ministery Par. Com. in Matth. 7.15 All those without doubt are to bee taken for deceivers who take upon them the office of teaching without a true calling and a little after he saith That so much being discouered 〈◊〉 Christian must 〈◊〉 hid â—are against them Dow. in a Reg. 5. v. 19. and Psal 15. p. 56. Admon 1. to the Parliament p. 27. T. C. reply 1. pag. 83.155 CAN. Stay p. 5.62 63 71 113 118 119 c. and flye from them as from Wolves Musculâ—â— in Matth. 7.15 saith the like Cope in Prov. 10.20 speaketh as much and giveth this reason for it because they destroy both bodies and soules of aâ— many as eâ—t her beâ—eeve or reverence them Zanch in Phil. 3.2 Ralloc com in 1 Thes 5.11 page 228. Riv. in Psal 16. page 52.53 Oecolamp in Isa â—â—2 fol. 20. Cal. in Psal 16. Fen. in Song 1.6.7 Cornel. a Lapid Com. in Iohn Ep. 2. page 505. saith False Ministers are favoured and approved in their unlawfull way when they are boundâ— Par. in Hosea 13.2 Sedul in 2 Reg. 5. Mâ—â—ty loc comâ—p 119 Virels Grounds in lib. 2. p. 103. Zanch in â—rac 3. p. 534. ANSWER Blaming your Treatiser that he comes so naked into the field CAN Stay Sect. 12. p. 119. you say I never saw in my life an error held by a man of Learning that hath lesse brought to countenance it than this For whereas others doe commonly quote Scriptures albeit mis-applyed and alledge for themselves the judgements of other men Hieron in Psalm 5. Omnâ— qui maâ—è intillig it Scripturas in via Dei corruit He goeth not this way to worke And better it is to goe plainely and simply to worke in the defence of his cause than to wrest Scripture mis-alledge Authors and abuse a show of Learning to seduce and beguile the simple But you have made choyse of the more common though the most sinfull course You pretend Scriptures but handle them amisse Quote Authors but chop and change their words force them to speake what they never meant and when all is done they will bee found to make nothing for but direct against you Ambr. Intus in animo perdant modo victores abscedant CAN. Necess of Separ p. 227. Tertul. de Virgi veland If Christ wâ—re ever afore all the truth is as ancieâ—â— and everlsting You make use of Logicall Maximes and Theologicall Principles but your mistakes are grosse and palpable in the application of them Some men you say in matters of controversie care not though they lose the peace of Conscience so they may gaine their supposed victory And if you have not offered violence to your Conscience in those writings you have not advisedly considered what you have done To make this manifest in some particulars not formerly mentioned It is an infallible Maâ—ime you say as Doctor Vsher and others observe out of Tertulliâ—n Whatsoever is first that is truest and what comes after is adulterate CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 14. Vsher de Christ Eceles success stat c. 1. p. 19 Field of the Ch. lib. 2. c. 5. page 49. CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 11. For with reverence to the phrase From the beginning it was not so Basil ep 79. Non est aequum ut quae apud ipsos obtinuit consuetudo pro lege canone habeatur rectae doct inae Henry Answ first ans p. 31. I grant your Church is ancient but I deny it to be most ancient seeing then the most ancient by your own grant is most true c. CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 27. T. C. repl 1. p. 79. D. T. W. The Doctors of the Synod 5.6 Warres are judged by their causes and not by their consequences Bilson Christian subject part 3. page 201. The first in any kind or sort of things is truest and best so Field This is spoken of the prime first originall being of each thing which is a sure proofe of goodnesse and perfection For all defects found in things are swarvings declinings and departures from their originall and first estate For truth is before false-hood and good before evill and habite before privation But you miserably apply that Rule to the first judgment of the separated Church in London concerning the hearing of the Word preached in our English Assemblies as if it must bee truest because it was first and their after judgement adulterate because it followed You distinguish not betwixt the effect and the event which I will not say was done ignorantly or unadvisedly To reason from the effect of things you say is unsound and unconcludable by the Scriptures This is as if a man would say the Midwives which lyed to Pharoah did much good to the Israelites c. And then you goe forward to produce testimonies that things are to be esteemed by their causes and not by the event and that things are not true because usefull But your Pistoler argueth from the effect not from the event from the proper effect not the effect by accident as you might easily perceive but that you tooke liberty to deride what you could not answer Thus he argueth The Doctrine taught in the Church of England is the sound and true doctrine of salvation profitable to beget faith and to build men forward unto life eternall not by accident but of it selfe and is ordinarily blessed of God to that end and purpose Therefore it is not unlawfull to heare the word preached in their assemblies What you talke of Caines murder Iudas his Treachery the good that comes by Schismes and Heresies is only to please your selfe with by-matters for the argument is drawne from the proper effect in respect of meanes instituted appointed and blessed of God This Canon is true if truly applyed and rightly limited CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 20. and sect 10. p. 111. parium par ratio est contrariorum eadem est ratio But as you apply it no good Logician would acknowledge it For though the
staggerings and grosse delusions in others CAN. Necess of Separ p. 39. 48. c. Bilson Christ Subject part â— page 406. would have occasioned out-cries to raise the Countrey As for that which you alledge against ignorant idle profane Ministers it is not to the purpose for that respects not the office it selfe but the men in the office who may enter unlawfully and continue in the execution of their office The Church of Corinth had then as al other Churches now have or should have both praying preaching annexed and adjoyned to the ministration of the Lords Supper Both these yet are and ever were the meanes which God ordained to prepare us to be fit guests for that Table Bishop Iewel his Sermon on Iosh 6.1 2 3. This care must shew it selfe in removing blinde watch-men which have no knowledge who are but dumbe dogges that cannot bark c. Nonresidence and absence from their cure is a fault that would be amended CAN. Necess of Separ page 44. 45. Admonit 1. page 15. 16. Sold. Barw in the shep-heards of the Lords flocke Though they be never so able to instruct and therefore vvorthy to have roomes in the Church yet if they have not a desire to doe good c. CAN. Necess of Separ page 216. Another fault no lesse hurtfull to the Church of God is the suffering of pluralities when one taketh the profit of two or more Benefices c. when the Ministery it selfe for substance and that which is done by Ministers unlawfully executing their place is not to be condemned as a nullitie It is one thing to justifie an ignorant or idle ministerie another to make use of that which hee doth to our edification according to the Ordinance of God They are not approved of God in their ministration but what they doe administer is effectuall and God approveth that his people when they cannot remove them should make use of their Ministerie This the Non-conformists hold agreeable to their owne principles as hath been shewed at large Parsons Vicars Stipendaries Parish Priests Chapleines are but various Titles given to the same kinde of Ministerie in divers persons which is Evangelicall instituted of Christ and to be exercised and maintained in the Church untill the comming of Christ to judgment You affirm with great confidence that the Non-conformists condemn both their names and offices as wholly from that Roman Antichrist These be your words If you will know say the Non-conformists whence all these came wee can easily answer you that they came from the Pope as out of the Trojan horses belly to the destruction of Gods kingdome It is certaine that their name and office is wholly from that Roman Antichrist never instituted either by Christ or his Apostles For the Church of God never knew them neither doth any reformed Church in the world know them These are cloudes without raine trees without fruit painted Sepulchers full of dead bones fatted in all abundance of iniquity such as seeke not the Lord Iesus but their owne bellies Againe touching their Parsons Vicars Stipendaries Chapleines c. we have proved from their writings that these names and offices came wholly from the Divell and Antichrist and therefore his pleading for Baal is altogether here unusefull as to say All is one kinde of Ministerie and in this respect they are Parsons and in that respect Vicars c. For as much may a Papist say of their Parsons Vicars c. We strive not with you for names and words but about the substance of the Office and Ministery Non enim in nominibus sed in rebus sita est nostra religio ut rectè monet Gregorius Theologus in Orat. quam habuit coram 150. Episcopis in Concil secundo Constantino anno 382. Nihil apud me distat in verbo quod non distat in sensu Ambr. com in Luc. lib. 2. Every godly and learned Minister Pastor of the Church hath more interest right in respect of his office c. for as much as he hath an ordinary calling of God and function appointed in Scriptures which he exerciseth T. C. rep 1. pag. 21. It is observed by the Learned that this hath been not the least of Satans sleights in conveying Popery from step to step and point to point to keep the speech change the sense of the Learned and Ancient Fathers As the Papists deale with the Fathers so doe you with the Nonconformists and as true too If therefore he would have justified those men he should first have manifested that his Brethren have notoriously sâ—andred their ministery and so have quite taken away their reasons better by shewing better c. But we have learned to try before we trust To contend about the bare names and Titles of Parson is vain and frivolous but if we speake of their office and ministery as it is exercised by the godly learned and painefull Ministers in the Church of England for the substance thereof it is instituted of Christ acknowledged by all true Churches in the world ever since the first plantation of the Christian Church knowne by all reformed Churches at this day blessed of God abundantly and so maintained by the Non-conformists Against the Name it may bee some have taken exception and against the pride idlenesse covetousnesse c. of some much hath bin written but that the office it selfe of Parson or Vicar as they preach the Gospell of Iesus Christ or administer the Sacraments according to the Institution and watch over the flock of Christ committed to their charge that this office I say for substance should bee condemned as Anticâ—ristian by the Non-conformists is notoriously false and the contrary is apparently known unto your selfe For many of them have publikely maintained the truth of their ministery in writing others have publikely professed they acknowledge the Church and ministery to bee true and of God and diverse have exercised the functions of Vicars and Parsons in our Assemblies And whether it be probable that so many seeking for reformation would publikely condemne that office as altogether Antichristian which they exercised in the Church let your Conscience judge In that which you alledge out of the admonition to this purpose you grossely play the juggler For it speakes not of the office of Parsons and Vicars at all much lesse of them all Their words let them bee compared with that which you write in their name are these wee should be too long to tell your honours of Cathed Churches the Dens aforesaid of all lovtering lâ—bbeâ—s where M. Deane M Vice-Deane M. Canons or Prebendaries the greater Mr. Pettie Canons or Canons the lesser Mr. Chancellour of the Church M. Treasurer otherwise called Iudas the Pursebearer the chiefe Chaunter Singing men speciall favourers of Religion Squealing Choristers Organ-Players Gospellers Pistelers Pensioners Readers Vergerers c. live in great idlenesse and have their abiding If you would know whence all these came we can easily answer you that they
the word and elements Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 356. To the Papists objecting that as Magistrates Parents have part of Gods externall honour because they present his person in judging and blessing so many Images have part of his externall though not of his internall honour Answer is truly returned It is not in your hands to make allowance of Gods honour to whom you list and againe God himselfe hath made a plaine prohibition in this case that Images shall have no part of his externall honour The words are as cleare as day light Thou shalt no bow downe to them Tho Beacon Catech in his workes in fol. printed at London Ann. 1562. f. 484. Fox in Osor lib. 3. pag. 27. The Booke of Common-prayer before the Communion Cypr. Ep. 63. ad Caecisiâ—m Justin Martyr in Apol. 2 Iren. lib. 4. cap. 34 lib. 5. cap. 4. Gratian. Decret part 3. de Conseâ—r dist 2. cap. 10.12 18.36 Durand rational divin offic lib. 4. cap. 5â— how comes it to have those things which are so directly contrary to the Masse that both cannot possibly stand together In our booke of Common-prayer we pray to God onely in the mediation of Jesus Christ and in a knowne language We professe that Christ by one oblation of himselfe once for all hath made a full perfect and sufficient satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world that he hath commanded a perpetuall remembrance of his death and passion in that his ordinance of the Supper and that the Sacrament is to be administred in both kinds the Minister and the people communicating together were these things taken out of the Masse-booke The Church of Rome joyneth the two first Commandements in one or taketh away the second thereby to cloake their Idolatry in the worshipping of Images But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England divideth them into two therein following two of the Fathers at most excepted all Antiquitie and fetteth downe the words of the second Commandement at large The Church of Rome teacheth that in the Sacrament of the Eucharist the body and bloud of Christ is received and eaten carnally that as much is received in one kinde as in both and that in the Masse Christ is offered 〈…〉 a propitiatory unblouddy Sacrifice for the sinnes of 〈◊〉 and dead But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England in the forme of administring that Sacrament teacheth expresly That spiritually by faith wee feed on him in our hearts eating and drinking in remembrance that Christ dyed and shed his bloud for us In the Masse the Priest receiveth alone the people standing by gazing on but the Minister and people are appointed with us to communicate together according to the institution of Christ and practice of the primitive Church We make the communion of the Eucharist properly a Sacrament They a Sacrament and a Sacrifice propitiatory They celebrate at an Altar wee at a Table according to the example of our Saviour Christ his Apostles and the primitive Church in the purest times Wee pray for the living They for the living and dead And if these be not points directly and expresly contrary to the Romane service Rome is much departed from her selfe Carriers pretence in that particular is a meere jugling trick that he might insinuate a change of Religion might be made among us without any great alteration which is as likely as the light should be turned into darknesse and not espied If many points of Popery be not condemned expresly in the Catechisme or Service-booke which are for the instruction of the simple in the grounds of Religion and the administration of the holy things of God and not to shew what is condemned in Religion yet so many points are there taught directly coÌ„trary to the foundation of Popery that it is not possible Popery should stand if they take place And whereas Antichristianisme standeth in ungodly superstructions and additions to the truth and worship of God both matter and object if the Catechisme and Service-booke have not enough in them in his sense of necessitie they contradict the whole bulke of Popery which confisteth in abhominable superfluities or impious inventions of their owne It is mone proper to say the Masse was added to our common-prayer than that our common-prayer was taken out of the Masse-booke For most things in our common-prayer were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church long before the Masse whereof wee speake was heard of in the world And the Masse was patched up by degrees and added to the Liturgie of the Church now one peice then another so that the ancient truths and holy Liturgies were at last stained with the Idoll of the Masse Bishop Jewel Ser. on Josh 6.1 2 3. The things that may bee reserved viz. in the destruction of Hiericho must not bee dust or chasse or hay or stubble But gold silver iron and brasse I meane they may not be things meet to furnish maintaine superstition but such things as be strong and may serve either directly to serve God or els for comelinesse and good order which was sacrilegiously thrust into them But the prayers and truths of God taught in that Booke pertained to the Church as her prerogative the Masse and the abhominations thereof belonged into the man of sinne And if a true man may challenge his goods which the theese hath drawne into his denne the Church of God may lawfully make claime unto those holy things which Antichrist hath unjustly usurped That answer which is returned to the accusation makes against them that sue for discipline viz. That a great part of their discipline is borrowed from the Anabaptists will serve as a buckler in this case And it is this which I doubt not you will approve Whatsoever is proper either to the heresie of Papists and Anabaptists Donatists or Puritanes that wee utterly condemne to the pit of hell But if amongst the filth of their heresies there may be found any good thing as it were a graine of good corne in a great deale of Darnell that we willingly receive not as theirs but as the Jewes did the holy Arke from the Philistins T. C. repl 2. par 1. Epistle to the Chh of England whereof they were unjust owners For herein that is true that is said The sheepe must not lay downe her fell because shee seeth the Wolfe sometimes cloathed with it August lib. 2. Serm. de Monte yea it may come to passe that the Synagogue of Satan may have some one thing at one time with more convenience than the true and catholique Church of Christ Bishop Jewel Ser. in Iosh 6.1.2.3 In religion no part is to be called little A haire is but little yet it hath a shadow If our Booke please the Papists it is but in some things wherein in reverence to Antiquitie we come too nigh them in some rites and ceremonies but with the substance of the ministration it selfe they cannot be pleased unlesse they be
no this is evident your inferences in this point are not correspondent to their Principles nor can be deduced from them as in the beginning you promised And then upon what bottome doth this reason stand or by what prop is it underset but your own bare affirmation which is much too weake to beare so great a weight Whosoever meanes z Can. Neces of Separat pag. 210. you say to settle well the conscience especially in a maine point of faith and Religion ought necessarily to bring good proofes from Scripture for the things whereof he speaketh For otherwise men must give no trust unto his words or if they doe it must be unadvisedly And what thinke you then if men upon your bare word give credit unto this argument is it not unadvised You bid a Bilson difference part 1. pag. 20. What we say without proofe reject you without answer If that rule may stand we need no further confutation of the rest of your Apologie for there besides taunts termes I see nothing prove the contrary if any man be able But that is not to ground the conscience upon Gods truth If your assertion be not taught in holy Scripture it is an unwritten tradition an humane invention a dreame of your owne in your conceit false worship and flat Idolatry though your opposites be able to say nothing against it but this that it is not taught of God What the Nonconformists will say to this argument you know not but hitherto they have said nothing or as good as nothing It is well you say not both Propositions are theirs as you doe in the former with as little truth as if you had said it here But if you had perused their writings against Separation as you have observed what sharp words they let fall against the corruptions in our Church and Liturgie you might have knowne that they say somewhat and somewhat to the purpose not worthy your answer but what can never be truly answered First Discipline they say is taken two wayes First Largely for the whole order pertaining to the gathering and governing of a Church the ordering of divine worship and manner of men And in this sense b Bilson perpet Ch. govern cap. 1. pag. 3. Order and Discipline the very nurse and mother of all peace and quietnesse as well in divine as in humane Societies assemblies though it be not the life or spirit that quickneth the Church yet doth it fasten and knit the members thereof as joynts and sinewes do the parts of our bodies Id. ca. 9. The Gospell must be preached the Sacramēts must be frequented for which purpose some must be taken to the publique service and ministery of the Church c. Neither onely the lack of the Word and Sacraments but the prophanation and abuse of either how greatly doth it endanger the state and welfare of the whole Church of Christ yea the casting of holy things to dogs and of pearles before swine how dreadfull a judgement doth it procure as well to the consenters as presumers A little Leaven sowreth the whole masse So that power to send Labourers into Gods harvest and to separate prophane persons for defiling the mysteries and assemblies of the faithfull must be retained and used in the Church of Christ unlesse we will turne the house of God into a den of theeves c. Act. 2.41 42.44 45 46 47. 11.20 21.26 13.43.48 14.1.21 22 23. Discipline is neither the matter nor forme of the Church but an inseparable propertie and so there can be no Church without some Discripline Secondly It is taken strictly for the administration of the censures in which sense it is not absolutely necessary to the being but to the well-being and safetie of the Church Secondly They answer that by divine right the power of the keyes is given to every compleat Apostolicall Church but the execution of this power may be wanting either through their negligence or because they are hindred as in Sardis Thyatira Ephesus c. And this is to the purpose for the Question is of the power to execute the Discipline of Christ and not of the simple right to execute it And in your opinion the execution of Discipline is absolutely necessary to the being of the Church without which it can neither be gathered nor subsist Take your owne comparison unlesse the body doe both receive food and purge out excrements it is not possible it should subsist and live If therefore Sardis Pergamus Thyatira c. continued the true Churches of Christ when the greater sort would not and the better could not purge out excrements or all were grossely negligent it followeth that the execution of discipline or power to execute discipline is not absolutely necessary to the being of the Church Thirdly The Church of England wanteth not the discipline of Christ for substance either in respect of right or execution though it be not administred as it ought These are the Answers which they give and they are too heavie to be spurned away with scorne when ever you shall try their weight Thus I might dismisse your first band as being put to flight already But I will spend a little time to examine both propositions And for the first it is to be noted that the word Church to let passe other significations is taken First For the communitie of the faithfull few or many two three or more men or women without guides or officers for beleevers dispersed and scattered by persecution spoyled of their guides or such as being newly called never had guides set over them are yet the true Church of Christ Secondly The societie of the faithfull joyning together in the ordinances of worship under a lawfull Pastour is a true Church though defective in many officers and ordinances required to the perfection of the Church Thirdly A c Bilson ibid. ca. 1. The internall regiment that God hath by his Spirit and truth in the hearts of the faithfull is the true kingdom of christ cannot be varied is not questioned in the Church of England But there is a necessitie also of externall goverment which respecteth the appointing of meete men and repelling of unmeete to be trusted with the heavenly treasures of the Word and Sacraments As also the good using and right dividing of so precious Iewells committed to their charge competent number of faithfull people joyned in societie under lawfull Pastours Teachers and Elders to watch over rule feed and guide them in the waies of God are a true and compleat constituted Church of Jesus Christ The word Discipline also is used two wayes as hath been said First In a larger sense as comprehending all order and behaviour concerning a Church in outward duties and so among the rest the daily planting and building by the calling and offering of the Word by the Ministers and the hearing receiving and obeying by the people As military discipline is put for the whole art or manner of
ought to be not what it is of whom it doth consist as prime chiefe principall members partakers of all the Royalties and priviledges thereof and not who are tolerated and suffered there as members in an inferiour degree or as maimes and blemishes And then you must lie under the just imputation of abusing this instance to another purpose not agreeable to the truth Can. Neces of Separat pag. 195. It will not be found that ever wee have denied but many hypocrites may be in the true church yea of open and vile transgressors but here lyeth the point If any man shall affirme that the same may be first gathered of knowne lewd and unconverted men that indeed we deny utterly c. When you are pressed with the examples where wicked and ungodly men were tolerated in the Church and did beare chiefe sway and possessed the greatest places and office in the Church you fly to this that you plead against the first building of a Church of such wicked and ungodly men and here you say He that will build a spirituall house to the Lord and the orderly gathering and planting of the members of them were all holy But if this reason be of any force it concludes for the coÌ„tinuance of the Church as well as the first planting or gathering that the members thereof must be truly holy And if this be not more cunning than beseemeth the sincere handler of Gods Word in a matter of such importance let the indifferent consider SECT III. THe reasons upon which our proposition is grounded are these Neces of Separat pag. 176 177. Psal 50.16 Isa 35.8 Zach. 14.21 Rev. 21. ult first All wicked men are forbidden expresly by the Word of God for medling with his ordinance or covenant Now if men to escape temporall punishment are afraid to transgresse against the Lawes of worldly Princes much more fearefull should they be to breake his who is the King of Kings and will inflict for it upon their soules and bodies torments eternally 2. That which destroyeth a Church and makes it either to become a false Church or no Church at all cannot be a true Church or be true matter whereof it is made But men visibly wicked and prophane make the Church a Synagogue of Satan Babylon Sodome Aegypt and so be spied out and removed 3. It is against sense and common reason that a Church should be constituted of unholy people For as in a materiall house the wood and stone must be first prepared and then laid orderly in the building So in the spirituall men and women by the word of God must necessarily be first reformed before they are any way fit to have any place therein 4. They which have no right to the holy things of God in the Church are not to be admitted into it neither is that Church which is so gathered rightly constituted Matth. 7.6 But men of wicked conversation have no right to the holy things of God in the Church And therefore that Church which is gathered of such is not rightly constituted 5. They cannot performe the services and duties of members Eph. 2.1 for they are spiritually dead If a Master will who covenant with one to be his servant which hath in him no naturall life much lesse c. 6. They have not Christ for their head and therefore cannot be of his body For as in the naturall body there must first be a naturall 〈◊〉 of the parts with the head before there can be day action of naturall conjunction Ioh. 15.2.4 Rom. 8. betweene the head and the members and one member and another so in the spirituall body the members must be first united with Christ the head and became one with him before they can any way partake in his benefits Rom. 7.2 Hosâ—a 2.19 20. or have communion one with another as members of the sâ—me body 〈◊〉 him the head 7. They are altogether uncapable of this covenant For as a woman which hath beene once a wife cannot marry againe with another man untill her first husband be deceased or shee from him lawfully divorced So neither can these be married to the 〈◊〉 till they have mortified their corruptions and put the world and Satan away unto which they were before as it were married 8. The godly and wicked are contraries guided and lead by different causes Now true contraries are not capable of one and the same forme ANSVVER THe best way to be secure from the force of your darts is to run unto the marke For here we have reasons numbred up which have weight in them for some purpose some of them at the least but direct them to your marke and they recoyle backe upon your selfe When you have reckoned up first second and third c. the conclusion is ever wanting and not so much as one premise which lookes to the right conclusion to be confirmed The thing to be proved is this that it is no true Church of God which is not planted gathered or built of Saints onely but that consequence will never follow from those premisses For every thing in those Reasons must as well be applied to the continuance of the church as to the first gathering and planting of it The wicked are expresly forbidden to meddle with the covenant or ordinances of God men visibly wicked make the church a Synagogue of Satan Men must be hewen and reformed before they are fit to have any place in the Church of God Men of wicked conversation have no right to the holy things of God Bilson perpet govern ca. 10. p. 147. With open reproving by the Word excluding from the SacrameÌ„ts such as notoriously sinned Pastours and Prophets might intermeddle the people might not It was no part of their charge but in banishing of malefactors from all fellowship and company both civill sacred with the faithfull Pastours were to direct the people to assist and execute that judgement The Apostles doe not leave it to the peoples liking as a matter indifferet till they have coÌ„sented but enjoyneth it as a necessary duty and coÌ„maÌ„deth them in the nameÌ„ of Christ Iesus to withdraw themselves from every brother that walketh inordinately c. Where there wanteth à beleeving Magistrate the Pastour shall not doe wisely to proceed to any such rigour against wilfull and obstinate sinners without the knowledge and consent of the people Euseb hist lib. 6. cap. 34. Theodoret. lib. 5. cap. 17. Bilson Christian subject part 3. pag. 81 82 83 86. The Question is not whether Bishops shall receive Kings with open and obstinate vices to the Lords Table but whether they shall chase them from their Kingdomes or no we mislike not repentance in Princes but resistance in subjects c. But marke what care Augustine will have observed how and when discipline should be administred They cannot performe the duties of members they have nor Christ for their head they are uncapable of the covenant
with the triumphant church And not by all sorts as in outward societie and profession are linked together who yet are not excluded from the societie in respect of profession nor denied to be members of the Church in their kinde or in a sort such as are called onely by externall vocation are members in their kinde of that company called or externally selected but not true members of the Church militant nor militant members of the Church catholique whereof Christ is the head And thus the church is a company of faithfull people sincere upright walking with God which is mixed with hypocrites and wicked livers not as living members of Jesus Christ but as members in a sort of the visible societie as members in the church by outward profession but not of the true militant church SECT V. BEfore I end this point Neces of Separat p. 179 180 181. Babel no Bethel pag. 108. Chall ca. 1. pag 33 34. I will here lay downe some few Syllogismes intirely made up between the Inconformists and Conformists all concluding the forenamed position That Church which hath not a lawfull Ministery is not a true visible Church But the Church of England hath not a true lawfull Ministery Ergo The Church of England is not a true visible Church The proposition is affirmed of the Conformists Sutcl Chal. pa. 40. and answ to the except pag. 65. as Burton Sutcliffe The Assumption is granted by the Nonconformists as we have in the first chapter largely shewed The true visible Church of Christ is a societie of beleeving and faithfull people and a communion of Saints so say the Conformists But the Church of England is not a societie of beleeving and faithfull people a communion of Saints thus write the Nonconformists see page 169. Ergo the Church of England is not the true visible Church The true Church is the Kings daughter described in Psalme 45. But the Church of England is not the Kings daughter so described Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ Burton answer to Hicholia pag. 100. The proposition is laid downe by the Conformists whereby they prove Rome a false Church The Assumption is the Nonconformists For if they say the truth their members have not those qualities belonging to the Kings daughter neither the Priest nor people See pag. 15.16 39.137 â—â— 69.170 The true Church of Christ is the flocke of Christ 〈◊〉 the Church of England is not the true flock of Christ therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. The proposition say the Conformists is undeniable BurtoÌ„ in the same Booke pag. 99. Song 1.6 7 Act 20.28 Joh 10.16 Theâ—e Assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles compared with Joh. 10.3 4.27 Christs flocke heare his voice and live it and follow it But the Church of England submitting to aâ— unlawfull Minisstery worship and discipline heare not Christs voice nor know nor acknowledge nor follow it but the voyce of Antichrist The Church of God doth keepe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration or corruption thus the Conformists Sutcl Chal. cap. 1. pag. 6. arg 9. But the Church of England keepes not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration and corruption say the Nonconformists Sec pag 108 Ergo shee is not the Church of God No societie can be tearmed Gods Church which retaineth not Gods true worship this the Conformists But the Church of England doth not retaire Gods true worship say the Nonconformists See pag. 78 to the 213. Ergo The same Booke pag. 13. arg 19. shee cannot be tearmed Gods church The true Church consisteth not of fierce Lyons Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beasts But of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble gentle c. So say the Conformists But the English Church doth consist of Lyons Id. pag. 27. arg 〈◊〉 Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beast's and not of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble and gentle c. Thus the Nonconformists see pag. 31. c. 145.169 Therefore it is not the true Church Here the Reader seeth cleerely how the Conformists Majors and the Nonconformists Minors make up intire Syllogismes of Separation And how they will be able to loose these knots I know not except by revoking utterly their own grounds which if either of them doe yet I doubt not but we shall be well enough able to maintaine them against men ANSVVER YOu please your selfe with the same Song which here we have over againe and againe tuned with the same art But that which you talke of the Conformists Majors and the Inconformists Minors your slanders set aside is idle and toyish For in that matter there is no difference betwixt the Conformists and the Inconsormists The Conformists Majors as they are truely meant the Inconformists doe assent unto And the abuse of ignorance idlenesse prophanenesse both of Ministers people whereof the Nonconformists complaine the Conformists doe acknowledge and bewaile And your selfe a little after in a matter of the same nature affirme that herein you say no more than what in effect is fully acknowledged Can. Neces of Separat pag. 193. by the Nonconformists Conformists the Church of England the learned generally and all the reformed Churches upon earth and for proofe you quote the same Authors you here all edge And why then doe you trifle thus with the Conformists Major and Inconformists Minor Did the sound of those words please you so well But let the Majors and Minors be whose they will no intire or perfect Syllogismes of Separatisme can be made up of them but such as ignorance in not understanding or an evill conscience in perverting or falsifying their sayings doth conclude They may well stand to their grounds and unloose those knots and if they understand their owne principles they cannot but untie them But how you can free your selfe from the guilt of an evill conscience unlesse you recant what you have written repent of your Separation and acknowledg the wrong you have done to the Nonconformists by misreporting perverting and falsifying their principles as you call them I leave to your serious consideration and the reexamination of what you have done For the right understanding of the Conformists propositions Iâ— speake in your phrase against the Church of Rome we must note That the Romanists hold the Church of Rome to be the catholique Church of Christ here on earth under the Pope the Head in which sense their propositions are to be understood For the true catholique militant Church is a faithfull people a communion of Saints the flocke of Christ that heareth his voyce keepeth the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles without addition or alteration and worshippeth God truly according to his will And there is truly and properly no member of the militant Church catholique which doth not
this sincerely in truth and measure But they never thought nor taught that every member in a sort of the visible Churches were holy and sincere the true sheepe of Christ faithfull and effectually called much lesse that it was no Church of Christ wherein abuses were to be found or ungodly prophane men were tolerated The q Bils The difference between christium subject par 1. pag. 92. These se the Church militant triumphāt be not two but one Church Jerusalem which is above is the mother of us all Gal. 4. Yee be now saith Paul no more strangers and forreiners but Citizens with the Saints and of the houshold of God Eph. 2. For you be come to the Citie of the living God and Heb. 12. where you see the Saints in heaven be not removed from the Church of God but be received to their fellowship Id. part 2. p. 230. The Church in heaven is it another Church from this on earth or the same Certainly Christ hath but one body which it his Church and of that body seeing the Saints sc in heaven be the greater and worthier part they must be counted the same church with us Church militant and triumphant are not two Kingdomes but two degrees of one Kingdome The Church visible and invisible are not two Churches but distinct considerations of the same Church If then we speake of true sound living chiefe principle members of the militant Church such as partake in all the royalties and priviledges of members every member of the Church militant is a true branch in the Vine knit firmely unto Christ quickned by the Spirit and shall be an inheriter of eternall glory But if we speake of members in a sort of visible societies so hypocrites may be members and ungodly men as they are tolerated in the societie when the better part cannot reforme or amend them But to the Arguments in order First The Church may be true though the Ministery be deficient in the order of calling qualification of persons and execution of their office But that Church is false whose Ministery is altogether false for substance of their office that is the doctrine which they teach Sacraments which they administer and functions whereunto they are set apart Thus the Conformists and Inconformists both Now if we speake of the Ministery of the Church of England indefinitly both Conformists and Inconformists will confesse some things to be faulty both in the entrance and execution of their callings as that some are ignorant proud covetous carelesse corrupt not watching over the flocke But absolutely that their Ministery is false in respect of the substance of their office that was never said by either of them as you doe or might well know The knot to be unloosed now remaineth in your conscience in that either you aequivocate in your Major or against knowledge charge the Nonconformists in your Minor with that which they never said Secondly The true Church of Christ that is the true and lively members of the militant church and militant members of the catholique church is a company of r The true Church is an universall cōgregation or fellowship of Gods faithfull and elect people built upon the foundations of the Prophets and Apostles Christ Iesus himselfe being the head corner stone And it hath alwayes three notes or markes whereby it is knowne pure and sound doctrine the Sacraments ministred according to Christs holy institution and the right use of Ecclesiasticall discipline Hom. 2. booke hom for Whites 2. part The Church consisteth not of men but of faithfull men and they be the Church not in respect of flesh and bloud which came from earth but of truth and grace which came from Heaven Bilson Christ Subject part 2. pag. 231. faithfull people a communion of Saints the true flock of Christ which heare know acknowledge beleeve and obey the voyce of Christ the kings daughter which is all glorious within knit to Christ and married unto him But in this societie there are mixed not onely secret hypocrites but fierce Lyons Tigres Wolves Beares wicked Teachers and ungodly livers Thus the Conformists and Inconformists And in this sense the Church of England is a societie of faithfull and beleeving people the flocke of Christ the Kings daughter quickned by the Spirit enriched with grace decked with Gods ordinances walking in sincere constant conscionable obedience though in outward societie and profession mixed with many ignorant vaine prophane persons who have received the presse-money of Christ but indeed fight under the Devils banner as doe all hypocrites and ungodly wretches that is in the Church of England there be some truely of the Church which heare the voyce of Christ mixed with those which in words professe Christ but in their deeds deny him Thus the Conformists and Nonconformists The knot here lyeth onely in an aequivocation or grosse abuse of the word Church which sometimes notes the whole visible societie linked in an externall profession and sometimes the true and living members of Jesus Christ against which the gates of hell shall not prevaile Thirdly The s Deo dat Ital. Ioh. 10.1 The sheepe are the true faithfull endued with spirituall light and discretion sheepe of Christ doe heare his voyce but what sheepe not all that be sheepe in profession but all that be sheepe indeed and truth effectually called and gathered into Christ◠sheep-fold They heare that is acknowledge beleeve and obey Christs voyce sincerely but not perfectly fully and compleatly for the faithfull may erre of frailtie and infirmitie both in faith and manners sometimes they are mislead through ignorance drawne aside by passions foiled by temptations Christs sheepe doe obey his voyce but t Bils Christ. subject part 2. pa. 233. The Church is not simply a number of men for Infidels heretickes and hypocrites are not the Church but men regenerate by the Word Sacraments truely serving God according to the Gospell of his Sonne and sealed by the Spirit of grace against the day of Redemption all that are linked with them in outward societie doe not sincerely obey not yet in conversation fashion themselves to the direction and commandement of Jesus Christ And thus the Church of England that is the true and faithfull people in those societies doe heare and obey the voyce of Christ in truth others mixed with them doe heare and professe but not obey If the Church doe erre it is of ignorance nor of wilfulnesse or stubbornnesse In matters of lesse importance not fundamentall or bordering thereupon It is the errour of some onely add not of the whole Church which errours u Gratian. decret par 2. ca. 24. qu. 1. cap. 9. A rectae in Gloss Novitatibus Ipsa congregatio fidelium hic dicitur Ecclesia 〈◊〉 Ecclesia non potest nonesse cannot make that shee is not the flocke of Christ The knot here to be unloosed is your sinne in charging that upon the Nonconformists the contrary whereto they have ever
maintained Fourthly In the true Church of Christ the true doctrine of Jesus Christ the Prophets and Apostles in matters fundamentall is kept but so as the living members may erre both in doctrine and manners and others in societie with them may erre grossely impenitently finally And thus the Church of England doth keepe the doctrine of w Chaloner Credo Sanct. 2 part subject The church in respect of its outward part as it enters the Creed is not onely an outward profession of a doctrine or discipline but a profession of the same under the notion of truth And that the Church in this sense is invisible Gregory de Valent. confes in his third Tom. upō Thomas disp 1 qu. 1. pag. 7. sect 16. and Bellarm in his third Book de Eccles ca. 15. Bilson Christ subject par 3. pag. 305. The visible Church consisting of good and bad elect reprobate hath no such promise but shee may erre only the chosen of christ which are the true members of his body properly called his Church they shall not erre unto perdition c. Christ the Prophets and Apostles intirely without addition or alteration though in the government and administration there be many things amisse though in the societie there be many who be not qualified as sheepe humble and meeke but fierce and cruell Fifthly No societie is the Church of Christ which retaineth not the true worship of God but in the true Church of God his pure worship may be stained with rites and ceremonies which might well be spared and are justly disliked Thus both Conformists and Nonconformists and all other sorts and sects of men And thus in the Church of England the true worship of God is for substance rightly maintained though the Nonconformists dislike and the Conformists groane under some ceremonies not abandoned The onely knot here to be unloosed againe is your slander against the Nonconformists in that you charge them to say that the Church of England doth not retaine the true worship of God And now I shall desire you calmely to consider how according to your principles you can untie a knot or two if they should be knit for you in this wise First He is no true Pastor of Jesus Christ who grossely perverteth the Scripture falsifieth Authors deceiveth with aequivocations condemneth the true worship of God as pernicious idolatrie and the x Jewell upon the first to the Thes chap. 1. v. 1. The Church of God is in God the Father and in the Lord Iesus Christ it is the company of the faithfull whom God hath gathered together in Christ by his Word and by the holy Ghost to honour him as he himselfe hath appointed This Church heareth the voyce of the Shepheard It will not follow a stranger but flyeth from him Of this Church Hieron in Mic. lib. 1. cap. 1. saith Ecclesia Christi in toto orbe Ecclesias possidens c. societies of Saints as idolatrous and Antichristian Assemblies and laboureth to draw Christians from the communion of Saints which ought to be kept and maintained Examine your writings in the feare of God and adde the proposition wanting Secondly He is no true Minister who derives his authoritie from them that are not able to give it But he that derives his authoritie from the people derives it from them that have no authoritie to give it You know the conclusion and where it will light Thirdly The true Church of God is the true flock of Christ the Kings Daughter quickened by the Spirit married unto Christ gentle meeke humble retaining the true worship of God without addition or alteration and keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace But the societie of Separatists is not the true flocke of Christ quickned by the Spirit humble meeke gentle keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace These properties doe not agree to all and every one in that societie in truth according as in the former propositions you say they belong to the true Church of God If you shall be able to maintaine the former propositions against men as you vaunt I doe not beleeve you shall be able to unloose these few knots CHAP. V. SECT I. IT may be some will expect that I should write something of their Lecturers Can. Neces of Separat pag. 49 50. and the rather because they in the judgement of many are thought to be the best Ministers Of their life and doctrine I say nothing But as for their Ministery surely it is new and strange For the Originall of their name manner of entrance and Administration is unknowne wholly to the Scriptures and I thinke never before heard of till in these latter broken and confused times Therefore it is no marvell when the Question hath beene propounded to some of them as it was by the Pharisees to John Who art thou That they have not been able for their life to answer to answer the point Neither could agree among themselves what kinde of Ministery it is that they have taken up And being hard pressed for resolution they have ingenuously confessed that unlesse they be Evangelists they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament This I write upon my owne certain knowledge the persons I thinke are yet living whose names for some reason I forbeare to expresse Howbeit I can and will doe it if I see there be a just and necessary occasion I doe not thinke it strange that they should thus speake for indeed I know not what they can say better in defence of their standing Pastours I am sure they will not say they are For First They doe not take any particular charge of a flocke upon them Secondly They performe not the office thereof for they agree with the people onely to preach and not to administer either the seales or censures to them Thirdly Their comming unto the people is in a strange sort for they make a covenant each with other for some certaine yeares and when that time is out both parties are free and so may leave one the other and doe many times but a true Pastour may not doe so For if he should he were worse than an hireling which leaves not the sheepe till he see the Wolfe comming But many of these when they see a richer Lectureship comming towards them Fourthly He that is a Parson or Vicar is taken generally for the Minister of the place And truely howsoever their calling be false and Anttchristian as the Nonconformists say yet in many respects they doe better resemble a true Minister than any Lecturer whatsoever Therefore not without just cause Neces of Discipl pag. 74. doe the Reformists utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers And affirme that they are neither Pastours nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of ANSVVER THis point concerning Lecturers I have purposely deferred unto this place because it is distinct from the former in your apprehension
large and particular animadversions to himselfe in private The Almighty speedily cast out of his Church all causes of offence cleare up doubtfull truths unto the hearts of his people Compound all differences amongst Brethren make us all of one minde heart and way in his worship that our divisions may no longer dishonour the Gospell distract the weak conscience disinable us to do that good we desire or put weapons into the hands of then who oppose that reformation the perfecting whereof our soules long for through JESUS CHRIST THOMAS LANGLEY WILLIAM RATHBAND SIMEON ASH FRANCIS WOODCOCK GEORGE CROSSE An Advertisement to the READER THis Booke was divided and sent unto severall Presses that it might the sooner come abroad yet by reason of the multitude of Pamphlets which it met with daily it hath beene thrusting through the throng for the space of halfe a yeare at least before it could see the light In which regard also it pleades excuse if in the printing it be not found every way so punctuall as might be desired Farewell THE ANSWERS TO THE EPISTLES BLessed be the Lord 2 Thes 2.8 We see now in good measure that accomplished which the Apostle foretold touching the revelation of the man of sinne and heartily beg the full consuming of him by the brightnesse of Christs comming But the discoverie of that mysterie of iniquitie and consuming of that monster of abominations standeth not in separation from Christian societies intirely professing the true faith worshipping the Lord with that pure worship which he hath appointed and holding communion in those ordinances which God hath blessed to the comfort of thousands and ten thousands even their soules who with most bitternesse oppose those congregations if ever they felt sound comfort indeed Separation from the true Churches of Christ his Ministery and worship of which sort I shall prove that to be by the Word of God for which I plead tendeth not to the overthrow of Antichrist but to the renting of the Church the disgrace of Religion the advancement of pride schisme contention the offence of the weak the griefe of the godly who be better setled the hardening of the wicked and the recoverie or rising againe of Antichristianisme They that condemne our Assemblies Ministerie and Worship and voluntarily separate from the preaching of the Word Prayers and Sacraments as Antichristian if in words they doe not maintaine Antichrist really they doe him more credit than his chiefe upholders For of necessitie they must confesse that in Antichristian Churches the intire faith may be purely professed the doctrine of salvation plentifully preached Ambr. in Luc. l. 6. c. 9. tom 5. Petra tua Christus est fundamentum Ecclesia fides est Si in Petra fueris in Ecclestaeris Pâ—ra est Ch istus Hieron in Psa 133. Ecclesia ibi est â—bi fides vera est Ecclesia autem vera illic erat vbi fides vera eral cum haeretici omnes bas ecclesias possidebant Aug in epâ—st Ich. tract 3. Estautem mater ecclesia uberaejus â—uo Testamenta divinarum Sâ—r. hinc sugatur lac omnium Sacrameatorum pro aeterna salute nostra gestorum Eâ—â—n Psalm 21. Vbicunque timetur Deus laudatur ibi est ecclesia Parker Ep. published in the prophane Schisme of the Brownists CAN A stay against straying answ § .. 1. p. 44. Mediam tennâ—â—e beati The true and pure worship of God is called grosse idolatry CAN stay §. 4. p. 32. Filthy superstition Id. sect 1. p. 49. Our assemblies the harlots house Id. sect 4. p. 61. The best Preachers are the worst Id. sect 5. p. 76. In Scriptures are said to be Robbers and Thievs yea spirituall sorcerie is charged upon them Id. se 8. p. 87. the seales of the covenant for substance rightly administred and by the blessing of God upon his owne meanes Christian soules ordinarily converted and nourished unto life eternall which is much more than all the factors for Antichrist shall ever bee able to make good and if true nothing could be 〈…〉 to the praise of Antichristianisme In effect 〈…〉 they lesse than even persecute the Lord Iesus in his hadst which they revile in his ordinances which they dishonour and in his servants whose footsteps they slander whose 〈◊〉 they desolse whose office they trample upon with 〈…〉 Which if the forward abettors and promoters of this separation did advisedly consider and take the Lord before them they would not furiously brand and abandone that worship and ministerie which hath the approbation and carrieth the seale of God As it is unlawfull to approve that thing which ought to be condemned so to condemne what is to bee justified much more to cast off and reject those godly assemblies which Christ hath and doth grace with the presence of his grace as false and that worship which is tendered to God alone in the mediation of Iesus Christ according to his will as idolatry and that Ministerie which God hath and daily doth blesse to the gaining and edifying of soules unto life everlasting as Antichristian Humble mindes are afraid of novelties CAN stay sect 1. p. 48. But this is the greatest noveltie that ever was heard of in the Churches of the Saints All that we speak we should affirm out of the holy Scriptures soundly interpreted and rightly applyed But this judgement is not of God is not taught in Scripture CAN stay sect 11 p. 112. In corde animáque credentium ponitur idolum quando novuÌ„ dogma constituitur Hier. in Jer. 32. Omne dogma contrarium veritati adorat epera manuum suaruÌ„ constituit idola in terrá suâ Hier. in Isa 2. Ne sitâ—s mulâ—e Magistri dissentiâ—ntes a doctrinâ uniâ—â— Magistri Christi August l. 1. Retract A Stay sect 1. pag. 47. Quicquid pariter omnes uno eodemque consensu c. Vincent Lyrinen cont proph haeret c 4. Field of the Ch. l. 3 〈◊〉 43. p. 175. is not consonant to the doctrine of Christ our only Master as in the examination of particulars shall be shewed If it bee a great sinne to be rash and adventurous upon opinions in matters of Religion where men are not first well informed in judgement by true grounds of knowledge What is it to condemne the Churches Ministery Worship and Servants of the Lord Iesus against the expresse Sentence of our heavenly Master and Teacher If an Idoll be set up in the Church when a new Opinion is broached as some cite it out of Hierom they of the Separation upon tryall will be found the strangest Idoll makers in the world because they have broached the strangest noveltie that ever was maintained in the Church Such as lay downe rules saith the author of the Stay to find out the truth by write thus What the Fathers all with one consent have held and written is a necessarie token to know the truth by And whatsoever hath been holden at all times and in all places by all Christians that have
vvhat need is there to lay dovvne their false office I cannot say of this mans Logicke as Aristotle did of Theodorus his making Epithites It is his vvhole art CAN. Stay p. 27. that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time provided hee onely teach the truths of the Gospell Our reason is for in this if he doe no idolatrous act then hee sinneth not and so consequently no just cause of his comming out from among them ANSWER Ill might you twit your adversarie with his little skill in Logicke unlesse it was done in policie to hide your own loosenes in this and the like arguments For though it be not an Idolatrous act to preach the truth of the Gospell in a false Church in other respects it may be sinne to continue a member in that societie and so also to teach the Gospels Truths As it may be scandalous and offencive an appearance of evill A man may doe that whereunto he is not called from an evill mind Also it may bee sinne to continue in a false Church though a man teach nothing but the truth of the Gospell because he cannot professe all maine and fundamentall truths or that border thereupon nor testifie against all corruptions grosse haereticall reallie Idolatrous which in Conscience cannot bee tolerated or borne withall without grosse hypocrisie or dissimulation or hee cannot keep himselfe from the tincture of Idolatrie in practicâ— As for example though it be not an Idolatrous act for a Popish Priest to preach the Gospell or administer the Sacraments of Baptisme yet it is not lawfull for a Christian to remaine as a member in that society because he cannot partake with them in the Ordinances but he shall commit reall Idolatrie or must dissemble many grievous and hatefull abominations which cannot bee dissembled and shall bee thought to bee of the same Religion with them or of no Religion c. The multitude of Authors which you quote against hearing false Prophets or continuing in false Churches doe they not give other reasons why wee ought to separate from them or doth any one ever lay this down as a truth or foundation of separation In the page following you alledge sixe reasons which you say may bee applyed against the going with others to an Idol ministerie Church or worship c. But if they bee of any strength this reason whereof now wee speake is nought worth for they are directly crosse Here you say If in preaching the truth of the Gospell he doe no Idolatrous act he sinneth not but there you say he sinneth many other wayes But in all this you take that for granted which we confidently denie sc That our Churches worship or Ministerie is false and Idolatrous And therefore taking the proposition in your sense we say It is not only lawfull but necessary to remaine Ministers or members of some Churches which lye under your censure as false and Idolatrous but indeed are the true Ministers and Churches of Iesus Christ graced with his presence covered with his banner and beautified with his Ordinances and tokens of love And that which you call an unblessed standing wee make no question but it is approved and blessed of Christ and therefore regard your reviling the lesse Can. Stay Sect. 5. Pag. 73. If a man performe an action in a state and of publike nature he is to be considered in respect of himselfe as is that state and according to the publike Ordinances For if the state be false and the officer unlawfull it is familisme for him to say I know this state is set up against the Lord Iesus Christ and every commer here to worship according to the constitution is an Idolater but I will have in my selfe a secret meaning from the rest Id. page 77. Seeing false Churches and false Ministers are reall Idols set up by earthly Princes c. Whosoever comes and bovves before those Idols cannot escape the just blame of Idolatry Id. pag. 73. This is a sure thing and let it bee noted No administration performed in a state and by a power and constituted office can be sought desired and received but in so doing the doer ipso facto really approves of that state power and office bee the same lawfull or unlawfull And as for any mans saying to the contrary it is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne Head and will prove as good as the miracles which Iannes and Iambres wrought even meanes to harden his owne heart and some others as they did Pharaohs by doing them ANSWER You say it is an easie thing to Conquer CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 66. Wee are no such Children as to give the cause so avvay CAN. Necess of sep p. 226. But this vvee cannot give him though hee begge it shamefully because the thing is othervvise as their ovvne vvritings manifest CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 74. Calfeh against Mart art 3. page 86. if begging might procure it and if confident assertions will carrie a matter you will not goe without it But we must not be driven from the Church the Ordinances and worship of God communion with Christ and societie of Saints by an emptie blast of words No though you shamefully boast you have proved it by our owne writings Doe you thinke your bold impudent asseveration that any mans saying to the contrarie is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne head will make us by and by yeeld to your definitive sentence for which you can produce neither Scripture nor reason nor authoritie but your owne as if your ipse dixit Pope-like were to be rested in Wee are no such Children We are not to be feared with rattles You must bring better matter than your vaine fictions and sounder proofe than vaine repetitions of the same things over and over or else you must expect small credit to bee given unto your words They that joyn together in the worship of God Ambr. in Luk. 6. c. 9. Fides Ecclesiae imprimis quaerenda in quâ si Christus habitator sit haud dubiè legenda c. sed siqua est Ecclesia quae fidem respuat nec Apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat ne quam labem perfidiae posâ—it aspergere deserenda est Sadeel de legit Minist vocat p. 6. Aug. Ex. 166. Our heavenly Master gave us vvarning before hand to make the people secure touching evill overseers lest for their sakes the chaire of vvholesome doctrine should be forsaken And Tract in Ioh. 46. The Lords fold hath some overseers that bee Children some that be hirelings ordinances of Religion they approve the faith protessed in points fundamentall the worship performed for the substance Ordinances administred and the truth of Ministerie for substance whereby these things are dispensed For of necessitie if the doctrine of salvation be restored the lawful use of the ministery is restored also Where God is truelie called upon in the Congregation and the Sacraments
rightlie dispensed there is a true ministerie whereby these offices are rightlie exercised But the particular Lawes manner of Government and orders in the Church the qualifications or qualities of the Minister or Communicants their disorders carelesnesse or other miscarriage in the administration he doth not approve reallie or interpretatively by his presence at the Ordinances If the Ministers be carelesse proud covetous superstitious enemies to true godlinesse friends to profanenesse if they aspire after dignitie love preheminence prate against the brethren they that communicate with them in the Ordinances of Religion doe neither in so doing countenance them in sinne nor approve their doiâ—gs If the Communicants be ignorant earthlie minded disobedient prophane scandalous they that communicate with them in the true worship of God and therein hold externall societie because they have not libertie to depart themselves nor power to cast the others out they are not defiled with their sinne nor partakers in their transgression And the same may be said of orders and rites established by the constitution of men presence at the ordinance doth not enwrape a Christian within the guilt thereof nor was it ever the pubâ—lke intention of the state that all present should approve every particular institution or order It sufficeth if they approve the faith professed and worship performed which are of God It is true that by words works example silence men may become guiltie of others sins and that some kind of dissimulation is a denying of Christ But it is true withall that presence at Gods Ordinances is no dissimulation nor participation in the sinnes of others by word example silence or other waies If a man doe one thing and pretend another and hope to save himselfe by his secret meaning you may rebuke his hypocrisie as the cause requireth But we say in reparing to the Ordinances of God our heart and actions goe together and both are allowed and approved of God And here consider whether you doe not directly confute your selfe by the Engine of your owne acknowledgment as you phrase it For here you say CAN. Stay Sect. 6. p. 78. no administration performed in a state and by power and constituted office can be sought desired and received And in your Margin There is a maine difference betweene a mans bare presence in a constituted state as being there unawares unwillinglie or by compulsion and presence there Jd. page 75. of purpose to partake of the administrations And a little before you argue thus whosoever takes to himselfe a practice which is not grounded on Gods Word and therein is strict he is just overmuch Id. page 74. 122 And many times you inculcate that you are to bee understood of hearing in a Church way and of Church officers Now if you deale plainely herein let the indifferent judge whether you doe not more than insinuate that all hearing in our assemblies is not absolutelie to be condemned but that wherein a man is strict that which is sought and desired And how then can it be esteemed an act of Idolatrie or compared to bowing downe before an Image For the worship of an Image though occasionally done and that but once with what intent or purpose soever you wil acknowledge to bee sin and if hearing the Word preached in our assemblies occasionallie be not a sin you have sinned grievously in matching it with Idolatrie of the most hainous kind and abused both Scripture and learned Authors to countenance your impietie SECTION 8. CAN. STAY against Sect. 5. Pag. 74. 75. If to heare in a false Church bee any lawfull ordinary meanes of edification which Christ the onely Teacher of his Church hath appointed then it is set downe by the Apostle in Eph. 4 11 12 13. The reason is because Paul there mentioneth all ministeriall meanes for the perfect and compleat building of the Church from the first to the last And if Christ who in those last dayes speakes evidently by his Gospell and Spirit Id. Sect. 12. p. 117 had judged it fit that his children should goe unto false Churches hee would certainely have made knowne the same unto them ANSWER The Apostle in the place alledged describes what officers Christ hath given to and doth approve in his Church for the ministerie of the word and dispensation of the heavenly mysteries The Papists alledg this Text of the Apostle to prove that in the Church there hath ever bin a visible succession of Pastors or Teachers See Rhem annot in Eph. 4 13 And the Ansvver vvhich is returned to them by our Divines vvill serve in this case See Fulk ansvver to the Rhem Ibid. Carâ—w Ibid. Cameron Myroth in Eph. 4.11 Non sequitur tamen inde Pastores istos fuisse ejusmodi qui oves conduxerint in ea pas cua quibus cicuta aconitum nascatur satis est ut duxerint in ea pascua quibus etsi insit virus tamen in est unde oves pascantur and intimateth also how they should be qualified and behave themselves in the execution of their Office But the Apostle saith not that the Church hath or shall evermore injoy such officers both for substance of their office qualification of gifts and manner of dispensation as are there commended Nor yet that the Church is onely to heare such as be rightly qualified and doe faithfully execute their office It derogates nothing from the glory of Christs wisdome and faithfulnesse in providing for the full and perfect instruction of the Church that such Pastors be sometimes wanting and cannot bee had for he never promised to provide otherwise for them in all ages of the Church but told them of the scarcitie which might come before and in wisdome saw iâ—to be most for his owne glory Christ never laid this charge upon the faithfull to separate from those teachers which preached truely the doctrine of salvation if any exception could bee taken against their calling qualification manner of life or execution of their office The Pastors of the Church should be wise vigilant holy examples to the flock both in doctrine and conversation not seeking their owne but that which is Jesus Christs And after they be chosen they should execute their office with al diligence But if they be carelesse covetous pompous intangling themselves in things of this world scandalous yet if they preach Christ and be not or cannot be removed the faithfull are bound to heare them The Primitive Bishops and Martyrs were neither Pastors nor Doctors according to every circumstance which your will require in a Pastor or Teacher but the faithfull in those times held communion with and heard them as they preached Christ and him crucified and that by the commandement and approbation of Christ Himselfe what was of God they were obliged to submit unto wisely distinguishing it from that which is annexed of man In the Officers of the Church two things are to bee considered 1. The substance of their calling which is to seed the flock