Gentry a learned Clergy and an understanding worthy People but yet we cannot think of England as we ought without reflecting on the condition thereof They are under the same Prince and the influence of the same Favâ—…urites and Councils When they are hardly dealt with can we that are Richer expect better usage For 't is certain that in all absolute Governments the poorest Countries are always most favourably dealt with When the ancient Nobility there cannot enjoy their Royalties their Shrievaldoms and their Stewardies which they and their Ancestors have possessed for several hundreds of years but that now they are enjoin'd by the Lords of the Council to make deputations of their Authorities to such as are their known Enemies can we expect to enjoy our Magna Charta long under the same persons and Administration of Affairs If the Council-Table there can imprison any Nobleman or Gentleman for several years without bringing him to Trial or giving the beast Reason for what they do can we expect the same Men will preserve the Liberty of the Subject here My Lords I will confess that I am not very well vers'd in the particular Laws of Scotland but this I do know that all the Northern Countries have by their Laws an undoubted and inviolable Right to their Liberties and Properties yet Scotland hath out-done all the Eastern and Southern Countries in having their Lives Liberties and Estates subjected to the Arbitrary Will and Pleasure of those that govern They have lately plundered and harased the richest and wealthiest Countries of that Kingdom and brought down the barbarous Highlanders to devour them and all this almost without a colourable pretence to do it Nor can there be found a Reason of State for what they have done but that those wicked Ministers designed to procure a Rebellion at any rate which as they managed was only prevented by the miraculous hand of God or otherwise all the Papists in England would have been armed and the fairest opportunity given in the just time for the execution of that wicked and bloody design the Papists had and it is not possible for any man that duly considers it to think other but that those Ministers that acted that were as guilty of the Plot as any of the Lords that are now in question for it My Lords I am forced to speak this the plainer because till the pressure be fully and clearly taken off from Scotland 't is not possible for me or any thinking man to believe that good is meant us here We must still be upon our guard apprehending that the Principle is not changed at Court that those men that are still in place and Authority have that influence upon the mind of our excellent Prince that he is not nor cannot be that to us that his own Nature and Goodness would incline him to I know your Lordships can order nothing in this but there are those that hear me can put a perfect cure to it until that be done the Scottish Weed is like death in the pot Mors in Olla But there is somthing too now I consider that most immediately concerns us their Act of Twenty two thousand men to be ready to invade us upon all occasions This I hear that the Lords of the Council there have treated as they do all other Laws and expounded it into a standing Army of Six Thousand Men. I am sure we have Reason and Right to beseech the King that that Act may be better considered in the next Parliament there I shall say no more for Scotland at this time I am afraid your Lordships will think I have said too much having no concern there but if a French NobleMan should come to dwell in my House and Family I should think it concerned me to ask what he did in France for if he were there a Felon a Rogue a Plunderer I should desire him to live elsewhere and I hope your Lordships will do the same thing for the Nation if you find Cause My Lords Give me leave to speak two or three words concerning our other Sister Ireland Thither I hear is sent Douglas's Regiment to secure us against the French Besides I am credibly informed that the Papists have their Arms restor'd and the Protestants are not many of them yet recovered from being the suspected Party The Sea-Towns as well as the In-land are full of Papists That Kingdom cannot long continue in the English hands if some better care be not taken of it This is in your Power and there is nothing there but is under your Laws Therefore I beg that this Kingdom at least may be taken into consideration together with the State of England for I am sure there can be no safety here if these Doors are not shut up and made sure Some few daies after this Speech the King was pleased to make a great Alteration in his Council and to appoint the Right Honourable Anthony Earl of Shaftesbury President thereof About the 18th of April 1679. His Majesty was pleased to declare the Dissolution of the Late Privy Council and for Constituting a New one The Lords of the Council not to exceed Thirty besides the Princes of the Blood which His Majesty may at any time call to the Board being at Court and the President and Secretary of Scotland which are uncertain The Names of that most Honourable Council were His Highness Prince Rupert William Lord A. B. of Canterbury Heneage Lord Finch L. Chancellor Anthony Earl of Shaftesbury Lord President of the Council Arthur Earl of Anglesey Lord Privy Seal Christopher Duke of Albermarle James Duke of Monmouth Master of the Horse Henry Duke of Newcastle John Duke of Lauderdale Principal Secretary of Scotland James Duke of Ormond L. Steward of the Houshold Charles Lord Marquess of Winchester Henry Earl of Arlington L. Chamberlain of the Houshold James Earl of Salisbury John Earl of Bridgwater Robert Earl of Sunderland one of His Majesties Principal Secretaries of State Arthur Earl of Essex first L. Commissioner of the Treasury James Earl of Bath Groom of the Stable Thomas Lord Viscount Falconberg George Lord Viscount Hallifax John Lord Bishop of London Daniel Lord Roberts Henry Lord Hollis William Lord Russel William Lord Cavendish Henry Coventry Esq one of His Majesties Principal Secretaries of State Sir Francis North Knight L. Chief Justice of the Common Pleas. Sir Henry Capell Knight of the Bath first Commissioner of the Admiralty Sir John Ernby Knight Chancellor of the Exchequer Sir Thomas Chicheley Knight Master of the Ordnance Sir William Temple Baronet Edward Seymour Esquire Henry Powle Esquire This great Change put men upon various Discourses and Apprehensions suitable to their respective Dispositions and Inclinations but the most sober both of the Parliament and others hoped now to see the Popish Plot wholly Eradicated especially considering the daily fresh Discoveries that were brought before the Council and Parliament the last of which was of no long continuance for about June 1679.
Shaftesbury and of any Design against His Majesty he gave the same Answer to them as he had done to the former Attackers that he knew nothing great Arguments were used but he could give no satisfactory Answer as he conceived was expected In a little time His Majesty came into the Office and was pleased to say to the Captain that His Majesty knew him well that the Captain had served his Father and His Majesty faithfully and he hoped the Captain would not decline his Obedience To which the Captain answered that he never deserved to be suspected His Majesty was pleased further to tell him he had not had the opportunity to serve his Friends but hoped he might His Majesty was pleased to promise to consider him for his sufferings Then after an excellent Exhortation in which His Majesty told him that the kindness was intended was not with design to speak a word but Truth it self and if he knew the Captain or any other person did he would never endure them His Majesty demanded what he knew of a Design against his Person and Government he answered he knew nothing of any Design against His Majesties Person or Government that he admired why one that had so faithfully served His Majesty and Royal Father both in England and beyond Sea and was so Instrumental to His Majesties Restauration should be suspected But some persons had possessed His Majesty that the Captain was deep in some Design against the Government and knew much of my Lord Shaftesbury At length after much pressing His Majesty told him if he would say As he hoped to be saved he knew nothing of any Design against his Person that then His Majesty would believe him which the Captain having said in the very words His Majesty seemed to be much surprized at it and left him to the management of the Secrery who used such Arguments as he thought fit At last the Captain declared that he knew his Duty to his Soveraign and would never draw his Sword against him but could freely do it against some of the Court who were Enemies both to His Majesty and his Friends So he was taken into another Room where were His Majesty Lord Chancellor Lord Hallifax Lord Hide two Secretaries of State and Lord Chief Justice Pemberton Mr. Graham Booth and Baines were present My Lord Chancellor would not believe but that he must be guilty of knowing great things against the Lord Shaftesbury he told them if he could not be believed on his word there if they pleased to bring my Lord Shaftesbury to his Tryal he should declare in open Court upon his Oath what his knowledge was without any hopes of gain or Advancement the Lord Chancellor wittily replied there were two sorts of Advancements and he was like to come to his own Tryal first before the Lord Shaftesbury My Lord Chancellor demanded if he had no Commission for this New Service against His Majesty to which the Captain answered No. Then the Chancellor told him he was to have a Troop to consist of Fifty Men the Capt. said that was a small Troop he hoped if ever he had Command of a Troop it should be a better than that But the Captain desired to know who gave that Information The Lord Chancellor told him Mr. Booth who was by and Listed under him Captain Wilkinson desired Booth to tell him whether he had given this Information upon Oath Booth answered Yes and it was true At all this the Captain was not concerned so much doth glorious Innocence triumph over the Forgeries and Impious Designs of Evil men and out-braves them even in Death it self That which is very observable in Captain Wilkinsons Information is That at that very time when Booth had sworn he was to have commanded a party of Horse at Oxford his whole Family Wife Children and Servants making about the number of 37 persons were all on Board his Ship bound for Carolina and all lying at his proper charge but when he thought himself most in readiness for his intended Voyage he found himself strangely entangled that he could not stir some Debts he was bound for for others and more of his own fell upon him and he was committed to the Kings-Bench which put a stop to the designed Voyage and he hath often since concluded there was a Divine hand in it I have thought it proper to insert in this place the Testimony of Major Jervas James whose Loyalty and Integrity to his Majesty hath been sufficiently known having most faithfully and as a true Subject served His Majesty both beyond the Sea and at home and declares is still ready with all chearfulness when his Majesty shall please to command him to serve him to the last drop of his Blood He acknowledgeth himself a Son of the Church of England as is it by Law established and hath without scruple taken the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy He stiles the acquaintance he hath with so deserving a person as Captain Wilkinson a great Happiness and acknowledgeth himself obliged to him for so timely entrusting him with so notable a secret being a stranger to the said Captain which trust Major James lookt upon as a great Adventure and the Discovery to endanger the Lives both of the Earl of Shaftesbury and Captain Wilkinson He likewise declares before God and Man that he believes all the Captains Information to contain nothing but the truth of what he had from Booth Bains and Mr. Graham For he lent him the convenience of his Chamber to write the whole business and saw him write it with his own Hand as may also be witnessed by Mr. Robert Bennet who is an Officer in Leaden-Hall-Market and transcribed it for the Captain He hopes his Majesty is and will be well satisfied that those who faithfully and truly serve His Majesty and his Subjects are the persons both to be believed and relied upon and desires that this may have credit according to its Truth and Reality both in the heart of his Majesty and all his loyal Subjects The Information of Jervas James Gentleman I Jervais James Gentleman do declare that the above named Captain Henry Wilkinson came to me upon Tuesday the 11th of Octob. 1681. in the Evening and did then and likewise every day from time to time afterwards make me acquainted with the several Treaties and Transactions between him the said Captain Henry Wilkinson and Mr. Booth Mr. Bains and Mr. Graham and the several other Persons in this his Information mentioned and that they were the very same in substance with what he hath herein set forth declared for at his Request for my own satisfaction I kept a daily Journal during the time of their Treating All which shall be attested upon Oath when required This forementioned Information was published by Captain Henry Wilkinson during the time of my Lord Shaftesbury's confinement in the Tower and was of very great use to satisfie all loyal and honest minded men of the base
Shaftesbury answered to this Effect My Lords I have presumed to present two Petitions to this Honourable House the first your Lordship mentions I do again here personally renew humbly desiring that I may be admitted to make that Submission and Acknowledgement your Lordships were pleased to Order And that after a Twelve-months close Imprisonment to a man of my Age and Infirmities your Lordships would pardon the folly or unadvisedness of any of my words or actions And as to my second Petition I most humbly thank your Lordships for acquainting me with the Resolution and Declaration in that point and though Liberty be in it self very desirable and as my Physician a very Learned man thought absolutely necessary to the preservation of my Life Yet I do profess to your Lordships upon my Honour that I would have perisht rather than have brought my Habeas Corpus had I then apprehended or been informed that it had been a breach of the Priviledge of this Honourable House It is my Duty it is my Interest to support your Priviledges I shall never oppose them My Lords I do fully acquiesce in the Resolution and Declaration of this honourable House I go not about to justifie my self but cast my self at your Lordships Feet acknowledg my Errour and humbly beg your pardon not only for having brought my Habeas Corpus but for all other my VVords and Actions that vvere in pursuance thereof and proceeding from the same Errour and Mistake One Blany was then called into the House who had delivered a paper to the Lord Treasurer Danby pretending to give a relation of some words spoken by the E. of Shaftesbury in the Court of Kings-Bench at the time when he moved for his Habeas Corpus but though this whole Transaction were no longer since than the last Trinity Term yet the said Mr. Blany could not affirm that what was written in the said paper was in part or whole really spoken by the Earl of Shaftesbury so that the Lord Treasurer being able to make nothing of Mr. Blany's paper which was a hard case the House of Lords proceeded to a Resolution in what form the Earl of Shaftesbury should make his submission and acknowledgment which being drawn up in words importing much the same with what the Earl had before declared which being read to him by the Lord Chancellor the Earl of Shaftesbury repeated the same at the Bar of the House and then his Lordship withdrew The House then ordered that the Lords with white staves should wait upon His Majesty to give His Majesty Account that the House had received satisfaction from the Earl of Shaftesbury in the matter of the Habeas Corpus and the other contempt for which he stood committed and are humble Suitors to his Majesty that he would be pleased to discharge him from his Imprisonment And that their Lordships do acquaint the House to morrow what they have done in this matter Die Martis 26 Feb. 1677. The Lord Treasurer reported to the House That the Lords with white slaves had waited on his Majesty according to the Order of this House To which His Majesty was pleased to give this answer That he will give Order for the Earl of Shaftesburys discharge Thus was this great heat whereby some of this worthy Peers Enemies thought then to blast his Loyalty and Integrity and endeavoured to foment the disgusts of the House against him at last extinguished and the Earl a little after saw this Parliament first prorogued and soon after dissolved Now was that Diabolical Plot of the Jesuits and Papists discovered by the great care and fidelity of Dr. Titus Oats which convinced both the King Lords and Commons and all the Nation in General of a damnable treasonable popish design to murther our Protestant King with the chiefest of the Nobility and Gentry and to reduce a Protestant Church to Romish Idolatry and the State to a Catholick slavery The seventh of March 1678. A Parliament met at Westminster and chose the Honourable Edward Seymour Esq their Speaker who had been Speaker of the last long Parliament This Parliament did like noble English Patriots endeavour to give check to the bloody popish Designs on foot and passed many excellent Votes for that purpose many Members acquitting themselves in their Speeches like Men of high sense of the Miserie 's the Nation was like to be involved in This House carried up the Impeachment to the House of Lords against William Earl of Powis William Viscount Stafford Henry Lord Arundel of Wandour William Lord Peters and John Lord Bellasis for High Treason and other high crimes and misdemeanours But this having been at large published to the World in divers other prints with divers Instances how this Noble Peer was personally struck at in that hellish Design I shall refer the Reader for more full satisfaction to the several Narratives and Discoveries of the popish Plot printed by Authority And shall now come to give you an Account of a Speech said to be delivered by this Honourable person in the House of Lords on the 25th of the Instant March Anno 1679. You are appointing of the consideration of the State of England to be taken up in a Committee of the whole House some day the next vveek I do not know how well what I have to say may be received for I never study either to make my Court vvell or to be popular I always speak what I am commanded by the dictates of the Spirit vvithin me There are some other considerations that concern England so nearly that vvithout them you vvill come far short of Safety and Quiet at home VVe have a little Sister and she hath no Breasts vvhat shall vve do for our Sister in the day vvhen she shall be spoken for If she be a VVall vve vvill build on her a Palace of Silver if she be a Door vve vvill inclose her vvith Boards of Cedar VVe have several little Sisters vvithout Breasts the French Protestant Churches the tvvo Kingdoms of Ireland and Scotland the foreign Protestants are a VVall the only VVall and Defence to England upon it you may build Pallaces of Silver glorious Pallaces The protection of the Protestants abroad is the greatest povver and security the Crovvn of England can attain to and vvhich can only help us to give check to the grovving Greatness of France Scotland and Ireland are two doors either to let in good or mischief upon us they are much weakned by the Artifice of our cunning Enemies and we ought to enclose them with Boards of Cedar Popery and Slavery like two Sisters goe hand in hand somtimes the one goes first somtimes the other in a doors but the other is always following close at hand In England Popery was to have brought in Slavery in Scotland Slavery went before and Popery was to follow I do not think your Lordships or the Parliament have Jurisdiction there It is a Noble and Ancient Kingdom they have an Illustrious Nobility a Gallant
to the Tryal of the said Earl and shall therefore now hasten to the Meeting of the Parliament at Oxford where Business of as high nature was agitated as ever came before the consideration of a Parliament no less than the preservation of the King's Majesty the Protestant Religion and the good people of England all which were now as much as ever Invaded by the Bloody Designs of the Papists This Parliament met the 21th of March 1681. in the Convocation-House at Oxford The House of Lords Sare in the Geometry School where was a Throne and State Erected for His Majesty in which His Majesty being Seated in His Royal Robes declared himself to both Houses to the Effect following That the unwarrantable Proceedings of the last House of Commons were the reason of his parting with them for that he who would never use Arbitrary Government himself would not suffer it in Others That whoever calmly considered the Assurances he had renewed to that last Parliament and what he had Recommended to them His Forein Alliances the Examination of the Plot and the Preservation of Tangier and reflect upon their unsuitable Returns might rather wonder at his Patience than that he grew weary of their Proceedings that it was his Interest and should be his Cause as much as Theirs to Preserve the Liberty of the Subject the Crown not being safe when that is in danger That by Calling this Parliament so soon he let them see that no Irregularities of Parliament should make him out of love with them by which means he gave them another opportunity to provide for the Publick Security and had given one Evidence more that he had not neglected his part That he hoped the ill Success of former Heats would dispose them to a better Temper That as for the further prosecution of the Plot Trial of the Lords c. he omitted to press them as being obvious to consideration and so necessary for the Publick Safety But desired them not to lay so much weight upon any One Expedient against Popery as to determine that all other were ineffectual That what he had so often declared touching the Succession he should not recede from But that to remove all reasonable fears that might arise touching the possibility of a ` Popish Successor if means could be found out that in such a case the Administration should remain in Protestant hands he should be ready to hearken to any such Expedient by which Religion might be secured and Monarchy not destroyed Lastly He advised them to make the known and Establisht Laws of the Land the Rule and Measure of their Votes The 22th the Commons having chosen their Speaker presented him to His Majesty in the Lords House Little beside was done until the 25. when the House considered an Act for Repeal of the Act 35 Eliz. which had passed both Houses in the last Parliament but had not been tendered to His Majesty for his Royal Assent A conference was desired with the Lords as to matters relating to the constitution of Parliaments in passing of Bills Another Message was ordered to be sent to the Lords to put them in mind that the Commons had formâ—…ly by their Speaker demanded Judgment of High Treason at their Bar against the Earl of Danby and therefore to desire their Lordships to appoint a day to give Judgment against him the said Earl upon the said Impeachment The same day the Examination of Edward Fitz-Harris relating to the popish Plot was read in the House upon which the said Examination was ordered to be Printed the said Fitz-Harris to be impeached at the Lords Bar and a Committee appointed to draw up Articles against him But the House of Lords rejected the Impeachment of Mr. Fitz-Harris whereby a stop was put to their proceedings And on the 28th in the morning the Commons were sent for to the House of Lords where His Majesty told them That their Beginnings had been such that he could expect no good success of this Parliament and therefore His Majesty thought fit to dissolve them And my Lord Chancellor having declared them dissolved His Majesty came the same night to White-Hall I must beg the Readers pardon if he think I have in this Relation deviated from my Theam which was the Earl of Shafton but nothing of a popish Plot hath been yet brought upon the stage wherein he hath not been level'd at he certainly knowing how destructive the Interest of the Papists is to the Government and People of England hath set himself to the hazard of his Life and Family to oppose them The next thing that appeared on the Booksellers stalls was a paper with this Title The Protestation of the Lords Upon rejecting the Impeachment of Mr. Fitz-Harris giving for Reasons why it was the undoubted Right of the Commons so to do because great Offences that influence the Parliament were most effectually determined in Parliament nor could the complaint be determined any where else For that if the party should be indicted in the Kings-Bench or any other inferiour Court for the same offence yet it were not the same suit an Impeachment being at the suit of the People but an Indictment at the suit of the King Besides that they conceived it to be a denial of Justice in regard that the House of Peers as to Impeachments proceeding by vertue of their Judicial not their Legislative Power could not deny any suitor but more especially the Commons of England no more than the Courts of Westminster or any other inferiour Courts could legally deny any suit or criminal cause regularly brought before them Signed according to the Printed Copy by the following Peers Monmouth Kent Huntingdon Bedford Salisbury Clare Stamford Sunderland Essex Shaftesbury Maclefield Mordant Wharton Paget Grey of Wark Herbert of Cherbury Cornwallis Lovelace Crew Finding the Earl of Shaftesburys Name amongst the other Noble Peers and Patriots I thought it not improper to insert the copy in this place it being the last Act of that great Man upon the publick stage For since that time he hath rather been passive as will further appear by the remaining Discourse We shall only remember that at his return from Oxford the Earl left a massy piece of Plate as a Gift to Baliol Colledg as also did that Heroick Prince James Duke of Monmouth which will be to posterity a Testimony of their Magnificence and Bounty And now to return to what remains for the finishing this Tragical story I shall mention only what is already printed either in Captain Wilkinson's Information Colledg's Trial or else is matter of Fact or set forth in the Trial of this great Peer himself Only I cannot omit that on the 15th of Aug. 1681. Mrs. Fitz-Harris gave a deposition upon Oath that her Husband a little before his Execution not only told her what great offers he had made him if he would at first have charged that Infamous and Treasonable Libel for which he was after executed on this worthy Peer
after my Lords Commitment and when he was challenged and told he was to be a Witness against him whether he did not then say as he was alive he knew no such thing Mr. Attor Gen. told my Lord this was not to be allowed this was private Instruction which the Juâ—… was not to take The Foreman replied no it was no private Instruction but asked Turbervill whether he had not spoke such words to Mr. Herbert Then the L. C. J. asked whether they had any Information touching that to Mr. Herbert the Foreman said he had a long time ago that the person told him so set down the day and was very angry with Turbervill for it The L. C. J. told them that discourses taken up at random at Coffee-houses were not fit to be brought in when Treason was in question against the King's Life that it was not ground to cavil at persons because they heard such discourse at a Coffee-house The Foreman said he never was in a Coffee-house with Mr. Herbert in his life but had the discourse of him some months ago The L. C. J. asked whether they thought that groundenough against the Witness Mr. Papillion replied they only asked the question whether he had not contradicted or said the contrary to any body Turbervill said he did not remember he had said any thing to Mr. Herbert in his life and that at that time he was discarded by all persons of my Lord's Interest and if he would then have given under his hand that he knew nothing against him he believed he might have been in their favour as before He was asked whether he was not one of them that petitioned the Common Council and declared that he was tempted to witness against his Conscience Turbervill said he did but that he believed he never read the Petition but was drawn to it by the order of Mr. Colledge by a Scriviner about Guild-Hall That his design in it was that the City should take care of him that he was not very poor nor over full of money some Members of the House of Commons had told them that the City should advance money for the support of the Witnesses and that they were to Petition that they would answer the design of the Parliament being asked what Members they were he said it was a Member of the House of Commons that told him so he would assure them he said what he spoke was voluntarily that he knew nothing more than what he had here declared he supposed his Deposition was given in after the Commitment of my L. Shaftesbu Smith being asked whether he had not used to go by the name of Barry said he had gone by several names as all Popish Priests do he said he had given in his Information to Secretary Jenkins he thought a little after my L. was committed but had given notice long before of what he intended to do to other persons But the Questions put to him being not very material and his Answers of little moment for want of room must be waved and we come to Bryan Haines who in answer to divers Questions put to him by the Jury said That he gave in his Information against my L. Shaftesbury the day that he the said Bryan was taken by a Messenger that he had before given in another account to Sir G. Treby of a design against the L. Shaftesbury about March last which was That Fitz-Girald had told him that he had given it under his Hand to the King that the E. of Shaftesbury did resolve to set the Crown on his own Head or turn the Kingdom to a Common-wealth that he had discourse with my Ld. at several times sometimes at his own House somtimes in Ironmonger-Lane that there Hains had proposed a Rebellion in Ireland that the Earl said that was not the best way they had other means to take and so the Discourse was waved being asked whether ever he had bin a Witness for or against the Lady Windham he said she arested him because he had said he lay with her John Macknamara answered to several questions put to him that he had discourse with the Lord Shaftesbury in March and April that he could not tell exactly when he gave in his Information but that it was to Secretary Jenkins that Ivey was by when they had the discourse That he signed the Petition to the Common Council but did not see it till 't was brought him to sign that he did not read it nor knew the Contents of it Then Mr. Papillion told the Court that in that Petition they say they were tempted to swear against their Consciences and that some of the Witnesses had made Shipwrack of their Consciences but if we should ask them who tempted them and who those Witnesses were that made shipwrack of their Consciences it would signifie nothing for since they do not know what was in the Petition it is in vain to ask them any more J. Macknamara said he heard Mr. Colledg that was executed at Oxford was concerned in promoting the Petition by my L. Shaftsburys Advice The Answer of Dennis Macknamara to divers questions put by the Jury was to this purpose That he was introduced to my Lord by his Brother in March or April last he knows not which that none but Ivey was by that he gave in his Information to the Secretary of State long before the Earl was committed Then Mr. Papillion proposed to the Court whether they might not ask if he had a Pardon for it would be satisfaction to them Ld. Ch. Just. North answered it might be proper when the Prisoner made Exceptions to the Witnesses but that there were no Exceptions to the Witnesses Mr. Papillion said they made no exceptions but they must satisfie their Consciences and that was very much as they found the credibility of the Witnesses My L. Ch. J. North asked what he should have a Pardon for Mr. Papillion answered for Crimes My L. C. J. North said They must not ask him to accuse himself Mr. Papillion said if he had a pardon he was in Statu quo suppose my Ld. some of them have been guilty of Poisoning some of Felony some of Robbing on the High way they did but ask them if they were pardoned L. C. J. North answered a Man must not be impeached but where he may answer for it Mr. Papillion said My Lord if you do not give leave we must for bear then L. C. J. N. said he did not think it proper Edward Ivey gave in answer to several questions demanded of him That the discourse he had with my Lord was some time after the sitting of the Parliament at Oxford about the latter end of March or beginning of April that he could not be positive when he made his Information but it was given to the Secretary of State that he thinks the two Macknamara's were by no body else he is sure one of them was That he gave his Information as soon as he