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A40689 The sovereigns prerogative and the subjects priviledge discussed betwixt courtiers and patriots in Parliament, the third and fourth yeares of the reign of King Charles : together with the grand mysteries of state then in agitation. England and Wales. Parliament.; Fuller, Thomas, 1608-1661. 1657 (1657) Wing F2467; ESTC R16084 264,989 306

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hereby will and command you out of our Treasury remaining in the receipt of the said Exchequer forthwith to pay or cause to be paid unto Phillip Burlamachi of London Merchant the summ of 30000 l. to be paid by him over by Bill of Exchange unto the Low-Countries and Germany unto our trustie and well be loved Sir William Balfoore Knight and Iohn Dalber Esquire or either of them for levying and providing certain numbers of Horse with Arms for Horse and Foot to be brought over into this Kingdom for our service viz. For the levying and transporting of a 1000 Horse 15000 l. for 5000 Muskets 5000 Corslets 5000 Pikes 10500 l. and for 1000 Curasiers compleat 200 Corslets and 200 Carbines 4500 l. Amounting in the whole to the said summ of 30000 l. And this our Letter shall be your sufficient warrant and discharge in this behalf Given under our privy Seal at our Palace of Westminster 30. of Ianuary in the third year of our raign The Commission to the Lords and others of the privy Councel concerning the present raising of money CHARLES by the grace of God King of England Scotland France and Ireland defender of the faith c. To Sir Thomas Coventry Lord Keeper of the great Seal of England Iames Earl of Marlburgh Lord Treasurer Henry Earl of Manchester Lord President of the Councel Edward Earl of Worcester Lord Keeper of the privy Seal George Duke of Buckingham our high Admiral of England William Earl of Pembroke Lord Steward of our Houshould Phillip Earl of Mongommery Lord Chamberlain of our Houshould Theophilus Earl of Suffolk Edward Earl of Dorcet William Earl of Salisbury Thomas Earl of Exceter Iohn Earl of Bridgwater Iames Earl of Carlile Henry Earl of Holland William Earl of D. George Earl of Totnes Sir George Hay Knight Lord Chaunceller of Scotland William Earl of Morton Thomas Earl of Kelly Thomas Earl of Melros Edward Viscount Conway one of our principall Secritaries of State Edward Viscount Wimbleton Oliver Viscount Grandison Henry Viscount Falkland Lord Deputy of Ireland To the Lord Bishop of Winchester William Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells Fulk Lord Brook Dudly Lord Carleton vice Camberlain of our Houshould Sir Thomas Edmonds Treasurer of our Houshould Sir Iohn Savill Comptroller of our Houshould Sir Robert Nawton Master of our Court of Wards Sir Iohn Cooke one of the principal Secritaries of our State Sir Richard Weston Chancellor and under Treasurer of our Exchequer Sir Iulius Caesar Master of the Roll. Sir Humfry May Knight Chancellor of our Dutchy of Lancaster GREETING WHereas the present Conjuncture of the pressing affairs of Christendom and our own particular interest in giving assistance to our oppressed Allies and for the providing for the defence and safety of our own dominions And people do call upon us to neglect nothing that may conduce to those good ends And because monies the principall sinews of War and one of the first and chiefest in all great preparations and actions necessary to be provided in the first place and we are carefull the same may be raised by such ways as may best stand with the State of our Kingdoms and Subjects and yet may answer the pressing occasions of the present times We therefore out of the experience we have had and for the trust we repose in your wisdoms fidelities and dutifull care of your services and for the experience you have of all great causes concerning us and our State both as they have relation to forraign parts abroad and as to our Common-Wealth and People at home Ye being Persons called by us to be of our privy Councel have thought fit amongst those great and important matters which so much concern us in the first and chiefest place to recommend this to your speciall care and dilligence And we do hereby authorize and appoint and stricktly will and require you speedily and seriously to enter into consideration of all the best and speediest ways and means yee can for raising of money for the most important occasions aforesaid which without extreamest hazard to us our dominions and people and to our friends and Allies can admit of no long delay The same to be done by imposition or otherwise as in your wisdom and best Judgments ye shall finde to be most convenient in a case of this inevitable necessity wherein form and circumstance must be dispensed with rather then the substance be lost or hazarded And herein our will and pleasure is that you or as many of you as from time to time can be spared from attendant upon our Person or other our necessary services do use all dilligence by your frequent meetings and serious consultations and when you have brought any thing to maturity ye make report thereof unto us and advertise us of those things ye shall either resolve upon or thinck fit to represent unto us for the advancement of this great service which with the greatest affection we can we recommend to your best care and Iudgement Whereof you must not fail as you tender our honour and the honour and safety of our Dominions and People and for the doing hereof these presents shall be to you and every of you a sufficient warrant In witness whereof we have caused these our Letters to be made Letters Patents Witnes our selfe at Westminster the last day of February in the third yeare of our Raigne Per ipsum Regem Articles to be propounded to the Captains and Masters as well English as French touching the service in hand at ROCHEL 4. May 1628. the ships rideing before the Town 1. WHether in your opnion and judgments by the means and strength we have the Floates and Pallizadoes may be forced and the entrance into the Town may be thereby made for the victuallers 2. If you shall think it fit what in your opinions will be the best and readiest way to open the same 3. Whether you hold it fit to send in the victuallers at the same instant together with the fire ships and barks considering that if it should not take effect instead of relieving the Town we relieve the Enemy 4. If in this attempt part shall get through and the greater part be taken by the Enemies whether the service or dishonour will be greater 5. If in case you think it fit to give the attempt whether you hold it likewise necessary that the Merchant ships should second or follow them and how far you hold it safe for them to go 6. Whether the more to countenance the service you hold it fit for the Kings ships to put themselves under sail being they are to be exposed to shallow water and a narrow Channel and to lye under command of many of the Enemies Forts where by an unlucky accident many of them may be brought on ground and miscarry 7. You are here to deliver your opinions upon your allegiance the rather because the onely service the Kings ships there can do is to cause the Enemies Fleet which rides
the Secretarie Super totam maternam It is evident that the Colledge at Clarkenwell is a Colledge of Iesuits holden under a Forreign Supream power Sir Francis Seymour taxeth Mr. Attorneys affection and judgement in this and also declareth continual Letters from Mr. Attorney in stay of proceedings against Recusants You see in this how slightly Mr. Attorney hath put over a business of this weight to Mr. Long. Cross the Pursevant saith there was an Eleventh man in the New Prison and the Keeper of that Prison said he was delivered by Warrant from the Councel-board Sir Iohn Elliot No man could find a way on which to vent his malice so much to this Church and State as by protecting these men That this may be fixed home on that great Lord of Dorset that I fear hath defiled his fingers too far in this business and on Mr. Attorney whom I am sorrie I have occasion to nominate so often in this matter of Religion in stopping of proceedings against Recusants Mr. Recorder is ordered to be sent for and to be examined in this rather than to be sent for having had the Honor formerly to sit in the Chair Secretarie Cook saith we shall find that the King being mercifull in case of shedding bloud gave direction for the repriving of those Priests Sir Iohn Elliot I doubt not when we shall declare the depth of this to his Majestie but he will render them to judgement that gave him advice herein Sir Nath. Ritch These Iesuits are bound by Sureties to answer further at the Councel-board I wish these Bonds would produce these Men that by examination of them we may find out the whole pack of their Benefactors and Countenancers Mr. Long saith that he offering at Session the Evidence by order from M. Attorney the Lord Chief Justice Richardson interrupted him and told him he must speak to the point in issue whether Priests or no Priests and hereupon the Judges consulted amongst themselves Mr. Selden saith he was present at the Sessions and plain Treason was proved and nothing done in it The further examination of this is referred to a select Committee Munday 16. A Petition of Complaint against Sir Henry Martin for disposing of the goods of one Brown who died intestate to his own private use Sir Henry Martin If I prove not my self as clear of this as St. Iohn Baptist let me be reckoned to be a Jew Referred to the Committee for course of Justice At the Committee for Religion MAster Stroud That the Lord Chief Justice may be called to give an account of his stay of Justice in the execution of the condemned Priests which he ought not to have done though his Majestie signified his pleasure to the contrarie Chancellor of the Dutchie That was a thing ordinarie for a Chief Justice to do in Queen Elisabeths and King Iames times as also a Declaration in the Star-chamber that all condemned Priests should be sent to the Castle of Wisbitch and from hence though the King had given no order for the replevie he might have taken his Warrant for his proceedings Mr. Selden reporteth from the Committee for the further examination of Mr. Long concerning the proceeding at Newgate against the Iesuits whereby plainly appeareth that the evidence tendered in the Court at Newgate did plainly testifie these men to be Priests yet the Lord Chief Justice Richardson did reject the same against the sence of the rest of the Judges and Justices present whereby it is plain he dealt under-hand to some of the Iesuites Ordered That two Members shall be sent to each Judge that were present at the Sessions at Newgate who were said to be the Lord Chief Justice of the Kings Bench the Chief Justice of the Common-pleas Justice Whitlock Justice Iones and Justice Crook Tuseday 17. MAster Chambers preferreth another Petition in complaint of a Warrant newly proceeding from the Councel-board for the stay of the Merchants goods unless they payed the duties that were due in King Iames his time Sir Iohn Elliot You see as by the last answer from the Exchequer the Merchants were bounded within the Court to sue for their own so they are now debarred from all means of coming by their own It is Ordered that the Customers shall attend the House on Thurseday next In the mean time it is referred to the former Committee Ordered a Committee of six to Collect and take all the names at the Fast and to meet at eight of the Clock in the Morning Ordered That a Committee shall consider of a speedie way to put the Merchants in Possession of their goods without which it is warned we sit here in vain Sir Thomas Hobbie Reported from my Lord Chief Justice Hide that he doth not remember any Papers tendred by Mr. Long were rejected or that he affirmed they were dangerous persons and a Colledge of Iesuits but howsoever Mr. Long tendred nothing to prove them so but that he had diverse papers in his hand Mr. Wansford Reported from the Lord Chief Justice Richardson who saith that Mr. Long did discourse of the place and house but did not press the reading of any papers neither doth he know what was in the papers neither knew he any thing to prove the persons Priests Sir Thomas Barrington delivereth the answer of Justice Iones who saith the same papers were offered by Mr. Long but he knoweth not the Contents thereof nor the reason why they were refused but he came late for want of his health and the second day was not there at all The like was Reported by Sir Will. Constable from Justice Crook Sir Thomas Barrington saith Although that Justice Iones did not write the name of my Lord Chief Justice Richardson yet in discourse named him to be the man that said The point in proof is not whether they be Priests or no Priests Sir Nath. Ritch Here is a charge of a high nature on the Judges by Mr. Long. That Mr. Long now may make good his Charge or suffer for it for there were witnesses enough in the Court. Ordered Mr. Long to be here on Thurseday Morning Ordered That the Justices about this time shall be required to deliver in the names of all Recusants remaining about the Town and their conditions and what Countrey they be It is Moved That the Gentlemen of the Inns of Court and of the Chancerie may give in their knowledge what Recusants are there Sir Iohn Stanhope That the Court may give in the names of Recusants there likewise by what Warrant these be about the Town and what publick charge of Office any of these persons have also what Priests and Iesuites are in any prison in London for they have libertie sometimes to go five miles to say Mass. Wednesday 18. A Publick Fast was kept by this House in Westminster where were three Sermons Thursday 19. MAster Dawes one of the Customers called in to answer the point of Priviledge in taking Mr. Rolles his goods being a Member of this
vouchsafe us your noble Company in this Petition without surcharging it with this addition A tempore Our next argument is drawn a tempore from the unseasonableness of the time The wise man saith there is a time for all things under the Sun tempus suum And if in the wise mans Judgement a word spoken in its due time be precious as Gold and Silver then an unseasonable time detracts as much from the thing or word done or spoken We hold under your favours that the time is not seasonable now for this addition It is true that of it self Soveraign power is a thing alwayes so sacred that to handle it otherwise then tenderly is a kinde of sacriledge and to speak of it otherwise then reverently is a kinde of blasphemy but every vulgar capacity is not so affected the most part of men nay almost all men judge and esteem all things not according to their own intrinsick virtue and quality but according to their immediate effects and operations which the same things have upon them Hence it is that Religion it self receiveth more or less credit and approbation as the Teachers and Professors are worser or better Yea if God himself send a very wet Harvest or Seed-time men are apt enough to censure Divine power The Soveraign power hath not now for the present the ancient amiable aspect in respect of some late sad influences but by Gods grace it will soon recover To intermix with this Petition any mention of Soveraign power rebus sic stantibus when angry men say Soveraign power hath been abused and the most moderate wish it had not been so used we hold it not seasonable under your Lordships correction A loco Our next argument is drawn a loco we think the place where your Lordships would have this addition inserted viz. in the Petition no convenient or seasonable place Your Lordships will easily believe that this Petition will run through many hands every man will be desirous to see and to read what their Knights and their Burgesses have done in Parliament upon their complaints what they have brought home for their 5. Subsedies If in perusing of this Petition they fall upon the mention of Soveraign power they presently fall to arguing reasoning and discanting what Soveraign power is what is the Latitude whence the Original and where the bounds with many such curious and captious questions by which course Soveraign power is little advanced or advantaged For I have ever been of opinion that it is then best with Soveraign power when it is had in tacite venerationem not when it is prophaned by publick hearings or examinations Our last argument is drawn from our duty and Loyalty to his Majesty in consideration whereof we are fearfull at this time to take this addition into our Petition least we should do his Majesty herein some disservice With your Lordships we make the great Councel of the King and Kingdom And though your Lordships having the happiness to be near his Majesty know other things better yet certainly the state and condition of the several parts for which we serve their dispositions and inclinations their apprehensions their fears and jealousies are best known unto us And here I pray your Lordships to give me leave to use the figure called Reticentia that is to insinuate and intimate more then I mean to speak Our chief and principal end in this Parliament is to make up all rents or breaches between the King and his Subjects to draw them and knit them together from that distance whereof the world abroad takes too much notice to work a perfect union and reconciliation how improperly and unapt at this time this addition would be in respect of this end we cannot but foresee and therefore shun it and do resolve that it is neither agreeable to the Persons of such Councellors whom we are nor answerable to that love and duty which we owe to his Majesty to hazard an end of such unspeakable consequence upon the admittance of this addition into our Petition whereof as we have shewed the omission at this time can by no means harm the Kings Prerogative the expression may produce manifold inconveniences and therefore since the admittance of your Lordships addition into our Petition is incoherent and incompatible with the body of the same since there is no necessary use of it for the saving of the Kings rerogative since the moderation of our Petition deserveth your Lordships cheerfull conjunction with us since this addition is unseasonable for the time and inconvenient in respect of the place where your Lordships would have it inserted and lastly may prove a disservice to his Majesty I conclude with a most affectionate prayer to your Lordships to joyn with the House of Commons in presenting this Petition unto his sacred Majesty as it is without this addition The KINGS speech in the Higher House at the meeting of both Houses 2. June 1628. Gentlemen I Am come hither to perform my duty and I think no man will think it long since I have not taken so many dayes in answering of the Petition as you have spent weeks in framing it and I am come hither to shew you that as well in formall things as in essential I desire to give you as much content as in me lies The Lord KEEPER in explanation of the same MY Lords and you the Knights Cittizens and Burgesses of the House of Commons his Majesty hath commanded me to say unto you that he takes it in good part that in consideration how to settle your own Liberty you have generally professed in both Houses that you have no intention for to lessen or diminish his Majesties Prerogative wherein as you have cleared your own intentions so his Majesty now comes to clear his and to strike a firm league with his people which is ever decreed to be most constant and perpetual when the conditions are equal and known to be so These cannot be in a more happy estate then when your Liberties shall be an ornament and strength to his Majesties Prerogative and his Prerogative a defence to your Liberties In this his Majesty doubts not but both you and he shall take a mutual comfort hereafter and for his part he is resolved to give an example in so using of his power as hereafter you shall have no cause to complain This is the summe of that which I am to say to you Here read your own Petition and his Majesties gracious answer The KINGS answer to the Petition of Right 2. June by the Lord KEEPER THe King willeth that Right be done according to the Laws and Customes of the Realm and that the Statutes be put in due execution that the Subject may have no cause to complain of any wrong or oppression contrary to their just Rights and Liberties to the preservation whereof he holds himself in conscience as well obliged as of his Prerogative Sir JOHN ELLIOTS Speech 3. June Mr. Speaker WE sit here
as the great Councel of the King and in that capacitie it is our duty to take into consideration the State and affairs of the Kingdom and where there is occasion to give them in a true representation by way of council and advice with what we conceive necessary or expedient for them In this consideration I confess many a sadd thought hath affrighted me and that not onely in respect of our dangers from abroad which yet I know are great as they have been often in this place prest and dilated to us but in respect of our disorders here at home we do inforce those dangers and by which they are occasioned For I believe I shall make clear unto you that both at first the cause of these dangers were disorders and our disorders now are yet our greatest dangers and not so much the potency of our enemies as the weakness of our selves do threaten us and that saying of the Father may be assumed by us Non tam potentia sua quam negligentia nostra Our want of true devotion to heaven our insincerity and doubling in Religion our want of Councels our precipitate actions the sufficiency or unfaithfulness of our Generals abroad the corruptions of our Ministers at home the impoverishing of the Soveraign the oppression and depression the exhausting of our treasures waste of our provisions Consumption of our Ships destructon of Men This makes the advantage to our enemies not the reputation of their Arms. And if in these there be not reformation we need no Foes abroad time it self will ruine us To shew this more fully as I believe you will all hold it necessary that there seem not an aspertion on the State or imputation on the Government as I have known such mentions misinterpreted which far it is from me to propose that have none but clear thoughts of the Excellency of his Majestie nor can have other ends but the advancement of his glory I shall desire a little of your patience extraordinarily to open the particulars which I shall do with what brevity I may answerable to the importance of the cause and the necessity now upon us yet with such respect and observation to the time as I hope it shall not be troublesome For the first then our insincerity and dubling in Religon the greatest and most dangerous disordor of all others which hath never been unpunished and of which we have so many strong examples of all States and in all times to awe us What testimony doth it want will you have Authority of bookes look on the collection of the Committee for Religion there is too clear an evidence will you have Recors see then the Commission procured for composition with the Papists in the North Mark the proceedings thereupon you will finde them to little less amounting then a tolleration in effect thought upon some slight payments and the easiness in them will likewise shew the favour that 's intended Will you have proofs of men witness the hopes witness the presumptions witness the reports of all the Papists generally observe the dispositions of Commanders the trust of Officers the confidence of secrecies of imployments in this Kingdom in Ireland and elsewhere they all will shew it hath too great a certainty and unto this add but the incontrolable evidence of that all-powerfull hand which we have felt so sorely that gave it full assurance for as the Heavens oppose themselves to us for our impiety so it is we that first oppose the Heavens For the second our want of Councels that great disorder in State with which there cannot be stability if effects may shew their causes as they are after a perfect demonstration of them our misfortunes our disasters serve to prove it and the consequence they draw with them If reason be allowed in this dark age the judgment of dependencies and foresight of contingencies in affairs confirm it For if we view our selves at home are we in strength are we in reputation equall to our Ancestors if we view our selves abroad are our Friends as many as our Enemies Nay more do our friends retain their safety and possessions do our Enemies enlarge themselves and gain for them and us what Councel to the loss of the Pallatinate sacrificed we our honour and our men sent thither stopping those greater powers appointed for that service by which it might have been defencible what Councel gave direction to the late action whose wounds are yet a bleeding I mean the expedition to Rhee of which there is yet so sadd a memorie in all men what design for us or advantage to our State could that import you know the wisdom of our Ancestors the practice of their times how they preserved their safeties we all know and have as much cause to doubt as they had the greatness and ambition of that Kingdom which the Old world could not satisfie against this greatness and ambition we likewise know the proceedings of that Princess that never to be forgotten Excellency of Queen Elizabeth whose name without admiration falls not into mention with her Enemies you know how she advanced her self how she advanced this Kingdom how she advanced this Nation in glorie and in state how she depressed her Enemies how she upheld her Friends how she enjoyed a full security and made them then our scorn whom now are made our terror Some of the principals she built on were these and if I mistake let reason and our Statesmen contradict me First to maintain in what she might a unity in France that that Kingdom being at peace within it self might be a Bulwark to keep back the power of Spain by land Next to preserve an amity and league between the States and us that so we might come in aid of the low Countries and by that means receive their Ships and help by sea This treable-cord so working between France the States and us might enable us as occasion should require to give assistance unto others and by this means the experience of that time doth tell us that we were not onely free from those fears that now possess and trouble us but then our Names were fearfull to our enemies See now what correspondency or actions had with this square it by these rules that it induce a necessary consequence of the division of France between the Protestants and their King of which there is too wofull and lamentable experience It hath made an absolute breach between that State and us and so entertained us against France France in preparation against us that we have nothing to promise our neighbours hardly for our selves Nay but observe the time in which it was attempted and you shall finde it not onely varying from those principals but directly contrary and opposite ex diametro to those ends and such as from the issue and success rather might be through a conception of Spain then begotten here with us Here there was an interruption made by S r. HUMFRY MAY expressing a dislike but