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A20775 A discourse of the state ecclesiasticall of this kingdome, in relation to the civill Considered vnder three conclusions. With a digression discussing some ordinary exceptions against ecclesiasticall officers. By C.D. Downing, Calubyte, 1606-1644. 1632 (1632) STC 7156; ESTC S109839 68,091 106

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support it selfe being thus abandoned all lawes did free them from duty and dependance Baron nal 4 But to make these generall grants the stronger they pretend particular grants from our owne Kings as from Ina King of the West Saxons that was indeed religious and from King Iohn that was impious as well sans foye as his title was sans terre as the King of France Math 1216. Philip the second said Iohannes nunquam fuit verus Rex neither of these binde our State for ●he Peter-pence contributed to Rome by Ina are called in the lawes of Conatus Larga Regis benignitas and in the abstract which is the best of the confessours and conquerours decrees Regis Eleemosynae which imports not due nor duty but charity and the Popes to be his beads-man not the King to be his homager There were many manifest nullities in King Iohns grant for he had no right to hold the Kingdome and if he had held it by right yet he could not grant any thing in prejudice of the whole State without the consent Regni vniversitatis as Mathew Paris tearmeth the Parliament and a third mullitie is in the force of the grant where whatsoever is passed in the body of the grant is resumed by this proviso in the conclusion Math. ibidem Salvis nobis haeredibus nostris Iustitiis liberalitatibus regalibus nostris which being luckily inserted salues all and makes it absolutely voyd But the maine grant which Baronius relies vpon is a donation from Ethelulphus King of the West Saxons which seemes very lawfull if it were as he saith salubri consilio Episcoporum Principum Baron Annal. Anno. 854. but yet that deed if wee free it from being forged was voyd if you doe but consider amongst many other things the incompetencie and incapacitie of the person to whom the deed was made Now Baronius is peremptory that it was made to the immediate successour of Leo the fourth which according to all the truest writers of the Popes liues was Iohn the eight which they conclude was a woman fu vna donna natio de Inghilterra che vacata là sede Apostolica Petro de Mexia della silva cap 9. per la morte di Leon quarto fu eletta per sonno Pontifice di Roma as Petro de Mexia and Boccacio de las mugeres illustres the King might perhaps haue done much for his country woman if he had knowne it but shee was not capable to receiue such a deed to her vse and therefore the Iurists haue reason to make this question Hottoman quaest illust 17. Vtrum acta Iohannis octavi in papatu rata esse debent And if what shee did was voyd what was done for her i● not firme being it was given supposing shee was capable So it is plaine that this engine is not able to vphold this claime being so loose and hanging together in the joynts like sick mens dreames shewing their inconsiderate inconstant humours their proofes being as weake as their imagination is strong all standing vpon slender supposals particular interest making partiall But they haue another ground for a presumption of their right because some poore oppressed Princes haue desired to hold their kingdomes from them as some vsurpers sought to obtaine dominions by their gift who depose Kings that they may dispose of their kingdomes But this is nothing and they stand not vpon it but when they haue nothing else to say I doe not by this goe about to deny that our Kings haue beene bountifull Benefactors to the Roman Clergie but this onely I stand vpon that they haue no reason to continue so still since they were never lawfully bound to it Neither doe I deny that any Prince should conferre favours vpon some forraine Ecclesiasticall State with this caution that he be not prejudiced by the kindnes may haue so good vse of their thankefulnesse As suppose any Prince should be called into Germany or Italy Dies nu● transit 〈◊〉 aliquod p● fecerit s● vt Aera● non eve● vt de Se● Lampr. or any other kingdom by an oppressed State Ecclesiasticall that Prince may doe royally to invest them into their former spirituall possessions and yet never impoverish or inslaue his owne kingdome to them and also binde them to him for protection Thus did Pipine Charles the great Lodovicus pius they releeved the Roman Clergie and bestowed very much vpon them in large territories but they gaue them nothing in France but onely what they recovered for them in Italy it is then evident Guicc li hist Ita● that our King hath no reason to bestow honour or power revenues or priviledges vpon any forraine State Ecclesiasticall and it is as plaine that he hath the greatest reason of any Prince in Christendome to bestow them all vpon his owne domestick Clergie § 6. The Nobility and the Clergie are the prime pillars of a Monarchie and the Communaltie is the ground whereon they stand And this they well know that intend the ruine of it for they will be sure to strike at these two props knowing that then it will fall and the ground and foundation remaine to them to erect a-new as Ball a Masse-Priest Chaplain to Wat Tyler advised his chieftane to destroy all the Clergie and Nobility so Garnet did the Traytors in the powder-plot as the Earle of Northampton well observeth and therefore Philip the second of Spaine who was seldome in an errour about the vpholding or inlarging a Monarchie advises his sonne Philip the third to stick fast to the Clergie los Clerigos amigo as I haue beene but yet so as you disregard not the Nobility otherwise they will hate you and envie them and ruine all Now if the Kings of Spaine haue reason so highly to favour their Clergie as to feare least their kindnesse to them should kindle indignation in the Nobility surely our Prince hath more reason so highly to succour his Clergie as that it may not be the object of the contempt of the vulgar For the Clergie of Spaine and all the Romish faction are not simply subject to them but deny Civill obedience alwayes to their Prince where Canonicall obedience commands the contrary or priviledges aboue it when as our Clergie are as true subjects as any State renounce all obedience to any other Potentate So that this hearty adherence to his Majestie is one reason yea they bestow all their labours in Gods service onely in dominions expect favour from none but his highnesse and they are more beneficiall to their King than any Clergie in Christendome to his natiue Prince or any State in this kingdome to the Crowne For though the revenues of other Clergies as of Spaine be infinitely aboue ours Nicholaus Ol●ev●● de regno Hispaniae as one of their Historians Opes Ecclesiasticorum paenè aequales sunt secularium vnà cum Regis Yet they are not so constantly beneficiall to the King but to the
for him to get began to practise the like domineering humour upon the other Potentates of Christendome sending his letters of claime to the Kings of France England Scotland Denmarke Poland Hungarie But being opposed by Philip le Beau King of France hee did flie backe to the Emperour for succour who then was Albertus the first Emperour of the house of Austria for though his father was Emperour yet hee was not of the house of Austria neither of the old Marquesses nor late Dukes but Earle of Hansburg who had conquered the Dukedome of Austria for his sonne This Boniface the Spaniard first began the faction betwixt the Kingdome of France and the house of Austria by giving the Kingdome of France to Albertus These two better agreed then any because the Pope had taken off the Emperour from seeking his owne right in Italie by imploying him as his champion to enlarge his dominion in other Kingdomes and partly because the Emperour had good hope to continue the Empire in his familie as it hath neere foure hundred yeares From which time the Emperours and Popes disagreements were not so frequent but onely when some French favourers were Popes and they sate at Avinion as Clement the fifth with Henry the seaventh and during the times of the Councels of Constance and Basill But by reason of the schismes in the Roman See they did one another neither much good nor harme vntill the time of Alexander the sixth a Spaniard who was exactly ambitious a great lover of his countrie and one that did much for it Anonymus Hisp in vita Alex. For hee joyned with Ferdinand the first Catholick King helping him to subdue Spaine and therefore first brought in the Inquisition Contra los Iudios y mores que le aviantornado Christianos which Caranza Arch-bishop of Toledo saith Ferdinand conceived himselfe bound in conscience to vse by vertue of an oath taken with an imprecation by one of his predecessours in the fourth Councell of Toledo Baronius Annal An. 637. which Baronius so much commends This Pope also bestowed vpon him the then discovered Indies with many other favours and for his sake and in opposition to the French hee was as fast a friend to the House of Austria as his deepe dissimulation would suffer him Philip. Cominoeus lib. 8. and the rather because they had lately matched with the House of Burgundie which much weakned the French force and strengthned their factions Thuanus hist. lib. 4. But then most when Philip the heire of the House of Austria and Burgundie incorporated himselfe with Spaine So that I will conclude these things considered that this forme is onely safe and convenient for those kingdomes that propose conquests and can rule it as the protectors of it § 5. So then seeing this Clergie is not for vs I will consider of the other which for distinct proceeding we may call Democraticall When the three Prime Potentates of Christendome were Charles the fifth Henry the eighth Francis the first such as deserved and desired to haue all the soveraigne power that could of right belong vnto them and yet were contrariwise vsurped vpon and deprived of all their eminent supremacie in those things that most concerned them perceiving some beginning to question the Pope a course of relieving themselues they began to vrge a Councell for reformation not onely in doctrine and manners but also in point of Ecclesiasticall government But it was so long vrged by them to no purpose that Henry the eigth advisedly wrote to the other That seeing the Pope had so long put it off Histo Trid. and now intended to hold it within his owne territories it were the best course for every one to reforme his owne Kingdome and he did so with the advise consent and desire of the Church and Stat● representatiue No sooner was a reformation in any degree setled but presently it was excepted against by some that favoured the Church of Geneva as not fully reformed because not agreeing with their new neat platforme that was vrged vpō vs as the only Apostolical government of the Church But I marvell how such an exact government should be so suddenly framed or else which is more strange that they could so conceale their happy invention as that Francis the first a King of France that searched into his government as much as any should not know of it For I am very much deceived if hee had not beene much mistaken knowing of this project to desire the Councell might be held at Geneva being it was Diametrically opposite to the Romane But our State had no reason to receiue it Hist Trid. For though it was necessary not onely in reason of State but also out of conscience that after we perceived the indisposition of the Romane Clergie to reforme themselues which they seem to hold impossible For though every Cardinall takes an oath in the vacancie yet it cannot binde him when he is Pope wee should then performe our duty especially seeing it stood with the publick good Yet neither of these considerations did engage vs to accept of such a forme of Clergie as seemed to runne a cleane contrary course seeing we propounded not an innovation but a reformatioa that being as dangerous as this was necessary it could not here be entertained without an vniversall innovation Now all stirring changes are dangerous especially when the body of the common-wealth is full of diseased discontented humours Because all alteration sets the humours a working and one humour being a-foote stirs vp all the rest either alluring by sympathie or provoking by antipathy and when they are once a-foote it is to be feared that they will not onely disburthen the body of malignant oppressing cru●●ties but weaken it in the most principall parts causing it to receiue a disposition to the like distemper vpon every small distaste But it is most dangerous to innovate in that part of a common-wealth that is most essentially actiue and hath beene lately recovered especially if the matter proposed doe minister any cause of relapse Both which seem too true in this new discipline which gaue an occasion to the Clergie to revolt in the denying the supremacie which they lately acknowledged And being a forraine French devise might seeme to come within the compasse of a praemunire for intrusion as well as that of the Church of Rome for vsurpation But this was only propounded not brought in and that by men who were by some beleeved to be faithfull to our State And it may be they had no dangerous aime in it yet it would haue beene very dangerous for our kingdome since it did necessarily induce an alteration in the profession and practise of the lawes which by reason of their long vse are as it were naturalized into the manners and disposition of our nation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Arist Rhetor. l. 2. cap 11. It must necessarily haue conferred ruines vpon our schooles of learning and hospitals
the power and honour of the Clergie are inseparablie derived from the supreame Soveraigne then in being and not communicable to any other state so the particular powers and regalities by which they are more especially conveyed are inseparably and incommunicably appropriated to his royall person As for instance the power of the state of the Clergie is originally derived from his Ecclesiasticall supremacie the honours from his lawes and royall prerogatiue All Kings I confesse haue not Ecclesiasticall government and that because many giue up their right some know it not as many of our Kings for many yeares were bereaved of it in whole or in some principall parts by giving and granting to the Pope an inch in breadth with them and he taking an ell in height aboue them But when the first defender of the faith Henry the eighth was weary of the weight of that intollerable vsurpation especially when he perceived that the Popes ambition soared vpon the wings and winde of the spirituall supremacie to a temporall superioritie The King like Iulius Caesar that he might fully recover into his power the temporalitie potestatem Pontificiam Iacob origi● §. 9. cum Caesaria potentia coniunxit hee resumed the Ecclesiasticall power finding that it was impossible in the course of the moderne policie of the Popes to bee supreame agent in temporall affaires while they were the highest in spirituall government especially since these powers cannot rest really divided in a Monarchie though they bee really distinct in a Monarch being a mixt person So that the statutes in the vicesimo quintò of Henry the eighth and primo of Elizabeth which determinately set downe this power of supremacy are not lawes inductory of a new but declaratorie of the ancient authoritie of our Prince with the solemne signification of their reas-sumption And our sacred Soveraigne doth not alone take this power for his right but many other Potentates in Christendome that haue not so much reason As the Kings of France Spaine Thesaurus Polit Apoteles 50. Guiceiardino hist lib. 4. Denmarke Poland Hungarie and Sicily which three last states haue more nearer dependance upon the Pope then any in Europe for Sicily hath beene held of him as a spirituall feud as Poland and Hungarie were both in one Popes dayes Benedict the seaventh converted from Paganisme Herbert histor Poloniae lib. 2. cap. 7. and one would thinke and so it seemes wholly at the Popes disposall especially in spirituall affaires Yet in Sicily the Kings of Spaine doe not onely claime supremacie of over-seeing but also superintendencie in doing in Ecclesiasticall employments Baron Anal. Anno 1209. and the Kings of Poland whose power is moderated by the limits and conditions of an election Thuanus hist lib. 56. Archiepiscopos Episcopos coenobiarchas dicunt suoque arbitrio eligunt and the Kings of Hungarie doe vse the same power and with as much reason in a Canonists opinion as we doe for though they cannot de iure yet Reges Angliae Hungariae conferunt beneficia privilegi● Papae Guymer Comment prag sanct tit de Innatis The Kings of France haue alwayes beene at defiance with the Pope for this power renewing continually pragmaticall sanctions in defence of it especially in the time of Charles the seaventh therefore called Carolina sanctio Duarenus pro libertate Eccles Gallicanae §. 4. which was of that force by vertue of that approbation of the free Councell of Basile that it curbed and casheered the Popes power causing them to impeach it by appealing from it almost in all causes which Pius the second perceiving sollicited Lewis the eleventh the sonne of Charles to abolish and repeale that sanction Concordat Galliae Leonina Constit being enacted in a seditious schismaticall conventicle which he well approved for a generall Councell when hee was a private Aeneus Sylvius Secretarie to Fredericke the third The King for the present called it in but his wisdome presently found the mischiefe and rewarded Cardinall Balve very well for vrging him to it as the Popes Legat Prot● gis ad cil 〈◊〉 apud histor Phili lib. 9 Conc● Guic● hist 〈◊〉 Rex Cardinalem Balvam in carcerem detrusit ob detrimentum consilio suo emergens and with so much displeasure that Philip de Comynes saith Cardinalis Balvensis carcerem horrendum excogitavit in quem inclusus primùm erat quatuordecem annos detentus non obstante Pontifice Romano The Kings of France were ever after stout in the defence of that sanction till Francis the first in his interview with Leo the tenth did remit the force of it in the Concordata Galliae which made his serious Secretarie Budaeus say Palladium Galliae proditum esse Budae lib. 5 The Kings of Spaine in Casteile haue some limited spirituall power by a late priviledge of Adrian the sixth granted to Charles the fifth but when they see their time Mar● della they take so much as shall serue their turne as Philip the second seised vpon the temporalls of the Archbishoprick of Tolledo the Bishop Caranza being apprehended for suspicion of new heresie and when Sixtus Quintus sent to him to vndertake a warre against England and told him that he would remit to him all the revenewes that arose of that Bishopricke sede vacante prudentissimus princeps respondet se nil de suo Pontifici largiri Thu● lib. 7 though at home his power is but what hee pleases to take yet in other of his territories it is lawfully as large as another Princes as in Burgundy and Belgia he hath the same right the King of France once had as Charles the fifth made a statute of Mortmanie Nullis personis Ecclesiasticis vel locis sacris licet vllam rem immohilem Thes lit 4 absque principis licentia acceptare vel habere And Philip the second his sonne publishing the Councell of Trent in the Low-Countries did not let it passe in all points with the full strength of an Ecclesiasticall law but restrained it with an expresse clause of speciall privision that it should in no wise prejudice or diminish any priviledge the King enjoyed touching possessary judgements or Ecclesiasticall livings or concerning nomination therevnto Boter Heroic quast lib. 1. But I will not now enquire whether our Prince hath such a supreame power iure positivo Pontificio I am sure it is iure divino Apostolico and supposing such a power I will for more distinct proceeding consider the severall streames and strings of this Ecclesiasticall power and how they flow and are fastned to the head and top of Soveraigntie paralleling them in the severall parts and points of this honour discovering how they are annexed to these powers and how they arise are raised and stand by his Maiesties lawes and Regall prerogatiue § 5 All power Ecclesiasticall is either power of order or of jurisdiction Durandus de origine jure Civ conclus 2. and both these