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state_n	church_n	spirit_n	unity_n	1,402	5	10.2899	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09101	A discouerie of I. Nicols minister, misreported a Iesuite, latelye recanted in the Tower of London Wherin besides the declaration of the man, is contayned a ful answere to his recantation, with a confutation of his slaunders, and proofe of the contraries, in the Pope, cardinals, clergie, students, and priuate men of Rome. There is also added a reproofe of an oratiuon and sermon, falsely presented by the sayd Nicols to be made in Rome, and presented to the Pope in his consistorye. Wherto is annexed a late information from Rome touchng [sic] the aute[n]tical copie of Nicols recantation.	Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.	1581 (1581)	STC 19402; ESTC S120349	83,096	196

fingers toes and eares are not bodies or deuisions of one bodye but partes and ornamentes of the same because they receaue all life norishment spirite from one soule soe diuers orders of religious men and women not differing in faithe but in manner of life in the Catholique Church are partes and ornamētes of the same church according to the propheci of her before made The Queen stood at thy right hand in golden apparel Psal. 45. enuironed with varieties These varieties are the varieties of states degrées professions orders in the Catholique Church which al agréeing in one fountaine of faith and taking norishment life and spirite from that vnitie of faithe as diuers members from one soule do not impaire but bewtifie the vnitie of that body which is the Catholique church and therfore are not to be called sectes as the Lutherans Caluinistes and Puritanes are which differ in matter of beléefe and doctrine For all that hath béene saide therfore or euer can be heerafter I doe not sée why our ●aith and Church is not proued true and ●ur aduersaries false by thes fower markes of Catholicke antiquitie succession and vnitie And if we once gaine this we néede noe longer to dispute of contr●uersies Hauinge ended this firste and chéefest matter of the true and false Church I must confesse vnto the reader that I am vnwyllinge to wade anye further with Iohn Nicolls in contention about particuler controuersies Cau●es whye● Nicolls is noe further answered in particuler controuersies Frste for that all the reste which he hath is oulde broken ware patchte vppe with péeces of soondrye bookes ether aunswered or reiected longe agoe which notwithstandinge is made woorse by his vnorderlye insertinge of it héere without iuste occation and especiallye by his adioynders vnto it of vnséemelye raylinge As after he hath vttered the obiections before mentioned agaynst the true marks of the Church he followethe with full mouth for dyuers leaues togeather agaynst Rome alleaginge Mantuan the Po●t and Budeus with Barnarde of Cluni●● without citinge anye place to proue that Rome had vices in it wherefore he con●●udethe and exhorte●he his bre●hren the preistes and other prisoners in the tower to leaue Rome and cleaue to Englande séeinge the Church of England had not soe many hereticks and churchrobbers in it as the Romane Church hath Secondly he rouethe soe wyde from the point of ech matter that he handleth as he séemeth to be ignorante both what we and his owne fellowes holde For aboute miracles and reuelations he laboureth much to proue that false miracles and reuelations are not to be credited which we graunt vnto him without proofe And touchinge Purgatorie and prayer for the dead and inuocation of Saintes he affirmeth them to be late inuentions of Popes and papists wheras his owne companions In his booke against P●rgatorie Pag. 306. 115.316.320 and against articles pag. 39. namly Fulke in his late answers to Doctor Allen and Doctor Bristoe confesseth that all those thrée erroures weare receaued i● the Church aboue 1200. yeares paste that is in the times of Augustine Ierome Ambrose and vppwarde and that those Fathers with other beléeued them also In oppugninge Images he bringeth a great heape of quotatiōs against idols thinketh that sufficiēt Against the Pope he disputeth not but raileth cōncludeth in the end with an impudent lye out of Phillip of Mornay saying That the Pope hath caused men to dispute that he is not simply a man but a partaker of the diuine nature with Christ. A malitious lye againste the Pope Sée the shamelesse foreheade I praye you of men blinded with malice The very wordes of the decretall alleaged are these talking of seperating of a Bishoppe from a certaine Bishoppricke which he held vnlawfully Not man but God doth seperate whom the Bishop of Rome vicegerent in earth Prope Innocētius de transl cap. quanto not simply of a mā but of him which is also true God doth seperate rather by Godes authoritie then mans vppon consideration ether of the necessitie or vtilitie of Churches Thyrdly he hath a propertie ether of ignorance or malice to tyre his answerer by cyting of things which are not to be found albeit they be such for the most parte as we would graunt without citing As for example he alleageth S. Austen li. 2. ca. 20. de consens euang against séeking of Christ in paynted walles but noe such thinge is founde there nor yet occasion of anye lyke matter He alleageth S. Chrisostome hom 30. in Math. repeting the Pharisées words to Christ which albeit it toucheth not the matter yet noe such thinge is to be séene there He citeth William Nubridge li. 2. ca. 15. 25. for S. Thomas of Canterburie his wordes to the Bishoppe of Menze against Rome A newe kind● of alleaging● doctou●s but noe such matter appeareth in that place nor any mention of the Bishop of menze He citeth Allen Cope dial 1. pag. 18. for false miracles before Images in our Churches but read the place and you shal sée there noe lyke argument handled He alleageth S. Basil mistrusting his owne workes in psa 32. which although it be not against vs yet must I note that noe such thinge is there to be séene I could geue dyuers other examples but this is sufficient to which do you add that he nameth almost twentie authores without citinge any place and many things without naming any author As for example where he vrgeth his fellow prisoners the priestes that came from Rome with this greate authoritie in latine and after englished One sayethe that whiles the Romishe preistes endeuour as much as they can to preach thinges in shewe agreeable to health of soules then teach they noe few things tending to perpetuall distruction of soules This one that sayeth this is ether Iohn Nicols onely or els some other of lesse credite then himselfe if it be possible to finde a creature of lesse credite And was not this a forcible texte trow you to be recited in latine out of the pulpet and to be translated in english and to be vrged in that audiēce for the stirring of hatred againste those learned and vertuous priestes Fowrthly it is a world to sée what his demeanour is in the places rightlye alleaged Nicols conclusio●s for first of nothing he wil inferr any thing and commonly his consequēt hath noe coherence or affinitie with his antecedēt I haue geuen some examples before as because Iobe sayeth that olde men vnderstand not alwayes iudgemēt therefore antiquitie is no good marke of the true Church Because Christ sayed to his desciples little flocke therefore the lesser congregations amongeste Christians haue alwaies the better fayth in religion I coulde shew you hundredes of these illations through out his booke Secondly if his wit serue him not to draw some false consequente from the place then audacitie supplieth to corrupt it by translation whereof besides that which hath bene

Christians by denyinge so iuste a demaund which in conscience he could not doe séeinge he hath not onely doonne more of him selfe then that commeth too but also procured other Princes to doe the lyke and that without anye letters of soe greate a Potentate as the Turke is namely at my being in Rome I saw a great man of Swetia deliuered from the Inquisition The Popes iustice and clemencie with restitution of his monie which was taken at Millaine and also an Englishe shippe or two deliuered from Naples which had béene seased on there by the Inquisition for their misdemenaur before which all was donne by the Popes request albeit they were taken in other Princes dominions Some also which now lyue in Englande fallinge into the Inquisition in those countries can geue testimonie of the Popes iustice in restoringe them their owne vppon their dimission Finallye the Pope hauinge noe subiectes of his owne dominions in Constantinople as I noted before coulde not hurte Christians there by staying a Turkishe shippe in Ancona for that other Princes hauinge league with the Turke as the French men Uenetians Florentines and other they must haue enioyed their liberties how soeuer the Pope and Turke had disagréeed Bnt now how farre of the Pope is from voluntarye hurtinge of Christians in Constantinople and how carefull to doe them anye good he can especially those which are in seruitude there it may partlye appeare by this which I sawe him doe my selfe at my béeinge in that Citie There passed through Rome towardes Uenice and soe to Constantinople fortie Turkes delyuered from the Gallies in Naples vppon exchaung of soe many Christians to be delyuered from lyke bondage in Constantinople These men béeinge verye poore made supplycation to this Pope for some reléefe Liberal alme● geuen to Turkes whoe gaue them fiue hundred frenche crownes willinge them to procure soe muche courtesie as they might to Christians abydinge in their Emperoures dominions By which it maye appeare howe vniustelye he is slaundered by his malytious and vngratefull scoller The seconde crim obiected The seconde crime wherwith Ihon Nicols chargeth this Pope is That he should put a certaine Countie out of his liuing in Macerata not paying him halfe the valew for the preferring of his sonne Iames to the same But this is more apparently false then the other was before for that the world can witnes that there is noe suche facte done that the Popes sonne Iames hathe noe suche countie Reasone also teacheth vs that it cannot be true for that Macerata being vnder another Prince his dominion to wit vnder the duke of Urbine the Pope hath nothing to doe touching Counties possessions ther to displace them from the same And in places and times when iust occations hath bene geuen of gaining of greter matters thē Ihon Nicols talketh of as of the dukedoms of Ferrara Urbine them selues which for wante of ishew were like to turn again vnto the Church from whence first they were geuen this Pope hath well shewed how farr of he is from all extortions séeing he hath confirmed again to the former families in respect of their vertues the sayde states and dukedomes which lawfullye he mighte haue taken And as for his sonne Iames whome Ihon Nicols saith He hath raysed from a begger to a marques able to spend thirtie thowsand crownes by the yeare True it is The Popes sonne that this young gentleman is well able to liue partly by his owne friends before the presente dignitye of his father being of a worshipfull and welthie familie and espetiallye by the Kinge of Spaine whome he serueth and from whome he hath receaued diuers good prefermentes It was reported also that the howse of Sforza in which he is matched by mariage had some talke with the King about exchanging or buying a certaine state for his children in the Kingdome of Naples But yet nothing is done soe that bothe are false that he was a begger before or that he is a Marques now Nether could Ihon Nicols vnderstand of these matters but only by the seruants of the Romaine Colledg whose lippes are larger commonly in suche reportes then their knowledge certaine as also we maye sée in Ihon Nicols him selfe whoe pretendeth noe small priuitie to this mans coffers and abilitie which notwithstanding he could not learne but by them onlye which knew it least For albeit this man be the Popes only sonn begotten in matrimonie before his fathers Priesthode yet his fathers moderation is such towardes him as also towardes the rest of his kinne and carnall frendes as his verie enemies can not reprehend it and good men are maruailousllye edified by it The third crime obiected The thirde accusation wherwith Iohn Nicols presseth his benifactor the Pope is For taking from a moncke two pretious stones worth a hundreth thowsande crownes whiche he had broughte from India and presented to this Pope which he acepting of in stead of rewarde put the monke in prison for departinge his Abby without licence And this is accounted a great point of iniquitie which is maruelous the partie wronged being a monke from whome to take not onlye moueable goodes but also his Abbye and lyfe too had bene noe offence in a protestant Prince by the cannons of new diuinitie Marye in the Pope all thinges must be haynous But yet before indifferent iudges I might aske this question If the matter had bene true and if the Pope had taken these iewels from the monke as from his subiect not capable or fitt for soe great riches and had also punished him for leauing his cloister without order what lawe or reason maketh this matter so haynous as is obiected but I am perswaded that all this whole tale is ether false or mistaken For diuers which were in Rome since and before Iohn Nicols doe reporte no suche thing to haue happened in their time but onlye that a Spanishe marchant which dwelleth at the foote of Trinitie hill towardes Porta del populo Iohn Nico● changinge a marchant to a moncke brought a Iewel not longe since from India of some good valew and being accused by the letters of certaine Bishopes of India that he had gotten the saide Iewell wrongefullye was put in prisone by the Pope vntill he had layde the same in safetie to abide the trial of lawe which thing happening at Iohn Nicols being in Rome mighte geue him occasion to erre in his reporte and to turne that to a moncke which hapned in a marchante Especiallye his capacitie being not of the cléerest cléerest to distinguishe matters and his intelligence of affayres comming vnto him from such obscure parsons as easily might huddle vpp chalke for chéese And in very déede it séemeth not a matter probable that a pore monke should light vppon Iewels of so great value and be suffered to wander the countrie with them as Iohn Nicols reportethe This then is all wherwith Iohn Nicols chargeth the Pope which notwithstanding may

for monye was geuen in such plentie that yeare as a great man of Germanie saide that he thought that more almes was geuen in ready mony in Rome then in al the prouinces of his countrie Laste of al I wil ad one thing in testimonie of the Romanes pietie deuotion The order of the Romans in taking vo●unta●ie discip●ine for th●ir offences in the holy weeke which many in Englād wil rather laugh at thē imitate which is that vppō maundie thursday before easter they vse to goe to S. Péeters church late in the night whipping thē selues vntill the blood streame frō their bodies They goe their faces al couered except only ij holes to looke out vpon their bodies they haue only a shirte of sak●cloth cutt soe behinde that their shoulders appéere naked where with whipcorde they beate thē selues for more then the space of one hower together They goe commonly aboue 600 in a companye The Societies of the Trinitie S. Marcellus and of the Confalons are chéefest in this matter And they are eche of them a hundred commonly euery yeare Nowe the beaters goe in order two and two and betwene euery two beaters goe two other with torches To sée only this spectacle were a matter to moue anye man whatsoeuer Besides these Societies many privat men do punish them selues very gréeuously in this holye weeke for their offences past Who couering their faces in suche sorte as they maye not be knowen they goe to all the churches of the cittie or the moste parte beatinge them selues pittifullye vntill the bloode doe runne from them in great quantitie All which maye suffice for an aunswere to Ihon Nicols touchinge this seconde parte Spilling of Controuersies IN THIS third parte The third part I must for two causes be very short The one for that more hath bene spoken in the seconde parte before vppon vrgent occations of Nicols his slaunders thē was meant at the first vnto the whole booke The other is for that to dispute with Ihon Nicols in Controuersies that is with a grammarian in groundes of deuinitie is as lost laboure as to argue with Pedlers in pointes of Poetrie or with a Colliar in cunning of Chiualrie He vnderstandeth not the state of that which is in question nor conceaueth the meaning of ether parte aright The authors which he citeth he neuer read but tooke them vp at second hand in Englishe bookes where he fell vppon them namely in those of Hanmer of Philip of Mornay whence often he boroweth whole pages together Héerof it commeth that his allegations doe passe from him muche mangled and peruerted with euidēt testimonie of the mās insufficiencie Ihon Nicols insufficience For some times he mistaketh his authore some times he nameth him not at all often he alleagethe some ●t randome without citing any booke or place other times he coteth but with error And yet soe litle s●kil as hee hathe hee knowethe to falsifye a place for his purpose or to corrupt it by translation if that wil not serue yet to fil vp the page with stuffe impertinente or against him selfe For which cause I haue named his do●inges in this parte Spilling of Controuersies The matters offered at by Nicols in his booke are diuers as of the Church of miracles and reuelations of Images of Purgatorie of Prayer for dead of prayer to Saintes of good woorkes of the Sacrament of the aulter of the Supremacie and of the Pope But all is done according to their fashion without order or methode beginning or ending by iumping in only vpon certaine quillotes of controuersies and by s●karring at th●m with certaine broken shaftes of oth●r mēs quiuers shiuered in péeces long a goe and beaten backe vppon his cōpagn●ons But the groūdes of thes matters are nether touched nor conceaued by him much lesse the pith of any one point discussed as shall appeare in parte by this bréefe aun●ere albeit I can not stande to d●sclose the whole Towching the church Of the Church Ihon Nicols letting passe al declaration of the state of the question other groondes of more intelligence is content only according to his sckil to obiect against certaine markes of the Church set downe by Catholiques to distinguish the true Cōgregation church of Christ from al Congregations in the world For better vnderstāding wherof of this whole Controuersie most n●edful of all other to be rightly vnderstood I think it not amisse in most bréefe māner to lay forth some few groūdes of the same Not so much for the aunswering of Ihon Nicols obiectiōs which are of no importance as for the better cōceauing of whatsoeur is in question betwéen vs our aduersaries in this matter of the Church What the Churche is First therfore we doe al agrée Math. 16. Acte 5. Rō 16. 1. Cor. 6. Act. 20. Eph. 3. 2. Tim. 2. 1. Tim. 3. Math. 13. Exod. 19. Cant. 1. 4. that the true holy church of Christ is a Cōgregation of Christiās professing his faith dedicated to his seruice so highly respected by him as being boughte with his blood linked by the bonde of his eternal ●oue is become his owne house his kingdome his peculier possession his darling ●is spowse and his owne bodye To To which Church of his 1. Cor. 11. Ephe. 5. Ephe. 1. 1. Cor. 12. No saluation out of the Churche Aug. Ep. 50 1●2● li. de vnit● eccle cap. 4. 16. li. 4 de sim. cap 10. Cypriā li. 1. ep 1. li. 4. ep 2. trac de simpli prel Iren. li. 4. cō here cap. 13. Chris. ho●●1 in ep ad eph F●lgēt li de fide ca. 37. 38● 39. Paciā ep 2. ad ●●m Greg● li. ●4 cap. 2. ●or A●e●● 204 ●● psa 82● ser. 181. de ●ē all his promises are meante all his giftes geuen all his blessinges directed al his graces powred out all his loue assured S●condly we also agree that séeinge this is soe that is seeing this congregation is the only howse of God no man can looke for wages at Godes handes as his seruant e●cepte he be one of this houshould or familie And seeinge this Churche is the onlye spowse of Christe no man maye haue him for his father whoe hathe not this Church for his mother And seeinge this Churche is Christes owne bodye whero● himselfe is heade no man can be a member of Christ or receaue anye influence of grace or lyfe from him except he be a member of this Church Wherof hath folowed that common sentence of holy● Fathers against heretiques and ●chismatiques o● ther times ●hat out of the Church is noe saluation That is doe a man what he can out of the vnitie of this Congregation yea although it wer to suffer death for Godes cause yet cannot ●e escape damnation Thirdly Catholiques doe deduce of these premises that se●ing this Churche or Congregation is soe necessarie to be knowen and repayred to of all men