your grand Reformer Luther lib. de Concilijs part prima sayth that he vnderstands not the Holy Ghost in that Councell For in one Canon it sayth that those who haue gelded themselues are not fit to be made Priests in another it forbids them to haue wiues Hath sayth he the Holy Ghost nothing to doe in Councells but to binde and loade his Ministers which impossblie dangerous and vnnecessary lawes I forbeare to shew that this very Article I confesse one Baptisme for the remission of sinnes wil be vnderstood by Protestants in a farre different sense from Catholiques yea Protestants among themselues doe not agree how Baptisme forgiues sinnes nor what grace it confers Only concerning the Vnity of Baptisme against rebaptization of such as were once baptized which I noted as a point not contained in the Apostles Creed I cannot omit an excellent place of S. Augustine where speaking of the Donatists he hath these words They are so bold as (m) lib. de Haeres in 69. to rebaptize Catholiques wherein they shew themselues to be the greater Heretiques since it hath pleased the vniuersall Catholique Church not to make Baptisme void euen in the very Heretiques thēselues In which few words this holy Father deliuereth agaynst the Donatists these points which doe also make against Protestants That to make an Heresy or an Heretique knowne for such it is sufficient to oppose the definition of Gods Church That a proposition may be Hereticall though it be not repugnant to any Texts of Scripture For S. Augustine teacheth that the doctrine of rebaptization is hereticall and yet acknowledgeth it cannot be cōuinced for such out of Scripture And that neyther the Heresy of rebaptization of those who were baptized by Heretiques nor the contrary Catholique truth being expressed in the Apostles Creed it followeth that it doth not containe all points of fayth necessary to saluation And so we must conclude that to belieue the Creed is not sufficient for Vnity of fayth and Spirit in the same Church vnles there be also a totall agreement both in beliefe of other points of fayth and in externall profession and Communion also wherof we are to speake in the next Chapter according to the saying of S. Augustine You are (n) Aug. ep 48. with vs in Baptisme and in the Creed but in the Spirit of Vnity and bond of peace and lastly in the Catholique Church you are not with vs. CHAP. V. That Luther Caluin their associates and all vvho began or continue the separation from the externall Cōmunion of the Roman Church are guilty of the proper and formall sinne of Schisme THE Searcher of all Hearts is witnesse with how vnwilling mindes we Catholiques are drawne to fasten the denomination of Schismatiques or Heretiques on them for whoses soules if they employed their best bloud they would iudge that it could not be better spent If we reioyce that they are contristated at such titles our ioy riseth not from their trouble or griefe but as that of the Apostles did from the fountaine of Charity because they are contristated to repentance that so after vnpartiall examination they finding themselues to be what we say may by Gods holy grace beginne to dislike what themselues are For our part we must remember that our obligation is to keep within the meane betwixt vncharitable bitternes pernicious flatery not yielding to worldly respects nor offending Christian Modesty but vttering the substance of truth in so Caritable manner that not so much we as Truth and Charity may seeme to speake according to the wholesome aduise of S. Gregory Nazianzen in these diuine words We doe not affect peace with (a) Orat. 32. preiudice of the true doctrine that so we may get a name of being gentle and milde yet we seeke to conserue peace fighting in a lawfull manner and contayning our selues within our compasse and the rule of Spirit And of these thinges my iudgement is and for my part I prescribe the same Law to all that deale with soules and treate of true doctrine that neyther they exasperate mens minds by harshnes nor make thē haughty or insolent by submission but that in the cause of fayth they behaue themselues prudently and aduisedly and doe not in eyther of these things exceed the meane With whome agreeth S. Leo saying It be houeth vs in such causes to be (b) Epist 8. most carefull that without noise of contentions both Charity be conserued and Truth maintayned 2. For better Methode we will handle these points in order First we will set downe the nature and essence or as I may call it the Quality of Schisme In the second place the greatnes grieuousnes or so to terme it the Quantity thereof For the Nature or Quality will tell vs who may without iniury be iudged Schismatiques and by the greatnes or quantity such as find themselues guilty therof will remaine acquainted with the true state of their soule and whether they may conceiue any hope of saluation or no. And because Schisme wil be found to be a diuision from the Church which could not happen vnles there were alwayes a visible Church we wil Thirdly proue or rather take it as a point to be granted by all Christians that in all ages there hath been such a Visible Congregation of Faythfull People Fourthly we will demonstrate that Luther Caluin and the rest did separate themselues from the Communion of that alwayes visible Church of Christ and therfore were guilty of Schisme And fifthly we will make it euident that the visible true Church of Christ out of which Luther and his followers departed was no other but the Roman Church consequently that both they and all others who persist in the same diuision are Schismatiques by reason of their separation from the Church of Rome 3. For the first point touching the Nature 1. Point or Quality of Schisme as the naturall perfection of man consists in his being the image of God his Creator by the powers of his soule so his supernaturall perfection is placed in similitude with God as his last End and Felicity The nature of Schisme and by hauing the said spirituall faculties his Vnderstanding and Will linked to him His Vnderstanding is vnited to God by Fayth his Will by Charity The former relies vpon his infallible Truth The latter carrieth vs to his infinite Goodnes Fayth hath a deadly opposite Heresy Contrary to the Vnion or Vnity of Charity is Separation and Diuision Charity is twofold As it respects God his Opposite Vice is Hatred against God as it vniteth vs to our Neighbour his contrary is Separation or diuision of affections and will from our Neighbour Our Neighbour may be considered either as one priuate person hath a single relation to another or as all concur to make one Company or Congregation which we call the Church and this is the most principall reference and Vnion of one man with another because the chiefest Vnity is that
of eternall damnation to be belieued and obeyed in some things wherin confessedly she is endewed with infallibility I cannot in wisdome suspect her credit in matters of lesse moment For who would trust another in matters of highest consequence and be afraid to rely on him in things of lesse moment Thirdly since as I said we are vndoubtedly obliged not to forsake her in the chiefest or fundamentall points and that there is no Rule to know precisely what and how many those fundamentall points be I cannot without hazard of my soule leaue her in any one point lest perhaps that point or points wherin I forsake her proue indeed to be fundamentall and necessary to saluation Fourthly that visible Church which can not erre in points fundamentall doth without distinction propound all her Definitions concerning matters of faith to be belieued vnder Anathema's or Curses esteeming all those who resist to be deseruedly cast out of her Communion and holding it as a point necessary to saluation that we belieue she cannot erre wherin if she speake true then to deny any one point in particuler which she defineth or to affirme in generall that she may erre puts a man into state of damnation Wheras to belieue her in such points as are not necessary to saluation can not endanger saluation as likewise to remaine in her Communion can bring no great harme because she cannot maintaine any damnable error or practise but to be deuided frō her she being Christs Catholique Church is most certainely damnable Fifthly the true Church being in lawfull and certaine possession of Superiority and Power to command require Obedience from all Christians in some things I cannot without grieuous sinne withdraw my obedience in any one vnles I euidently know that the thing commanded comes not within the compasse of those things to which her Power extendeth And who can better informe me how far God's Church can proceed then God's Church herselfe Or to what Doctor can the Children and Schoollers with greater reason and more security fly for direction then to the Mother and appointed Teacher of all Christians In following her I shall sooner be excused then in cleauing to any particuler Sect or Person teaching or applying Scriptures against her doctrine or interpretation Sixtly the fearefull examples of innumerable persons who forsaking the Church vpon pretence of her errours haue failed euen in fundamentall points and suffered ship wracke of their Saluation ought to deter all Christians from opposing her in any one doctrine or practise as to omit other both ancient and moderne heresies we see that diuers chiefe Protestants pretending to reforme the corruptions of the Church are come to affirme that for many Ages she erred to death and wholy perished which D. Potter cannot deny to be a fundamentall Errour against that Article of our Creed I belieue the Catholike Church as he affirmeth it of the Donatists because they confined the vniuersall Church within Afirica or some other small tract of soile Least therefore I may fall into some fundamentall errour it is most safe for me to belieue al the Decrees of that Church which cānot erre fundamentally especially if we add That according to the Doctrine of Catholique Deuines one errour in fayth whether it be for the matter if selfe great or small destroyes fayth as is hewed in Charity Mistaken and cōsequently to accuse the Church of any one Errour is to affirme that the lost all fayth and erred damnably which very saying is damnable because at leaues Christ no visible Church on earth 21. To all these arguments I add this demōstration D. Potter teacheth that there neyther was (c) pag. 75. nor can be any iust cause to depart frō the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe But if the Church of Christ can erre in some points of fayth men not only may but must forsake her in those vnles D. Potter will haue them to belieue one thing and professe another and if such errours and corruptions should fall out to be about the Churches Liturgy publique Seruice administration of Sacraments the like they who perceiue such errours must of necessity leaue her externall Cōmunion And therefore if once we grant the Church may erre it followeth that men may and ought to forsake her which is against D. Potters owne wordes or else they are inexcusable who left the Communion of the Roman Church vnder pretence of Errors which they grant not to be fundamentall And if D. Potter thinke good to answere this argument he must remember his owne doctrine to be that euen the Catholique Church may erre in points not fundamentall 22. An other argument for the vniuersall infallibility of the Church I take out of D. Potters owne words If sayth he we (d) pag. 97. did not dissent in some opinions from the present Roman Church we could not agree with the Church truly Catholique These words cannot be true vnlesse he presuppose that the Church truly Catholique cannot erre in points not fundamentall For if she may erre in such points the Roman Church which he affirmeth to erre only in points not fundamentall may agree with the Church truly Catholique if she likewise may erre in points not fundamentall Therfore either he must acknowledge a plaine contradiction in his owne words or else must grant that the Church truly Catholique cannot erre in points not fundamentall which is what we intended to proue 23. If Words cannot perswade you that in all Controuersies you must rely vpon the infallibility of the Church at least yield your assent to Deeds Hither to I haue produced Arguments drawne as it were ex naturâ rei from the Wisdome and Goodnes of God who cannot faile to haue left some infallible meanes to determine Controuersies which as we haue proued can be no other except a Visible Church infallible in all her Definitions But because both Catholiques and Protestants receiue holy Scripture we may thence also proue the infallibility of the Church in all matters which concerne Faith and Religion Our Sauiour speaketh cleerely The gates of Hell (e) Matt. 16. shall not preuaile against her And I will aske my (f) Ioan. 14. Father and he will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for euer the Spirit of truth And But when he the Spirit of (g) Ioan. 16. truth cometh he shall teach you all truth The Apostle sayth that the Church is the Pillar and ground (h) 1. Tim. cap. 3. of Truth And He gaue some Apostles and some Prophets and other some Euangelists and other some Pastors and Doctors to the consummation of the Saints vnto the worke of the Ministery vnto the edifying of the body of Christ vntill we meete all into the vnity of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God into a perfect man into the measure of the age of the fulnes of Christ that now we be not Children wauering and carried about with euery wind of dectrine
for the same reason one cannot auoide the company of a sinner and at the same time be really present with that man who is a sinner And this is our case and in this our Aduersaries are egregiously and many of them affectedly mistaken For one may in some points belieue as the Church belieueth and disagree from her in other One may loue the truth which she holds and detest her pretended corruptions But it is impossible that a man should really separate himselfe from her externall Communion as she is corrupted and be really within the same externall Communion as she is sound because she is the selfe same Church which is supposed to be sound in some things and to erre in others Now our question for the present doth concerne only this point of externall Communion because Schisme as it is distinguâ—â—hed from Heresy is committed when one diuides himselfe from the Externall Communion of that Church with which he agrees in Fayth Wheras Heresy doth necessarily imply a difference in matter of Fayth and beliefe and therfore to say that they left not the visible Church but her errors can only excuse them from Heresy which shall be tried in the next Chapter but not from Schisme as long as they are really druided from the Externall Communion of the selfe same visible Church which notwithstanding those errors wherin they do in iudgment dissent from her doth still remaine the true Catholique Church of Christ and therfore while they forsake the corrupted Church they forsake the Catholique Church Thus then it remaineth cleere that their chiefest Answere changeth the very state of the Question confoundeth internall acts of the Vnderstanding with externall Deeds doth not distinguish between Schisme and Heresy and leaues this demonstrated against them That they diuided themselues from the Communion of the visible Catholique Church because they conceaued that she needed Reformation But whether this pretence of Reformation will acquit them of Schisme I refer to the vnpartiall Iudges heretofore (n) Num. 8. alledged as to S. Irenaeus who plainely sayth They cannot make any so important REFORMATION as the Euill of the Schisme is pernicious To S. Denis of Alexandria saying Certainely all things should be indured rather then to consent to the diuision of the Church of God those Martyrs being no lesse glorious that expose themselues to hinder the dismembring of the Church then those that suffer rather then they will offer sacrifice to Idols To S. Augustine who tels vs That not to heare the Church is a more grieuous thing then if he were striken with the sword consumed with flames exposed to wild beasts And to conclude all in few wordes he giueth this generall prescription There is no iust necessity to diuide Vnity And D. Potter may remember his owne words There neither was (s) pag. 75. nor can be any iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe But I haue shewed that Luther and the rest departed from the Church of Christ if Christ had any Church vpon earth Therfore there could be no iust cause of Reformation or what else soeuer to do as they did and therfore they must be contented to be held for Schismatiques 18 Moreouer I demaund whether those corruptions which moued them to forsake the Communion of the visible Church were in manners or doctrine Corruption in manners yields no sufficient cause to leaue the Church otherwise men must go not onely out of the Church but out of the world as the Apostle (t) 1. Cor. 5.10 sayth Our blessed Sauiour foretold that there would be in the Church tares with choice corne sinners with iust men If then Protestants waxe zealous with the Seruants to plucke vp the weeds let them first harken to the wisdome of the Maister Let both grow vp And they ought to imitate them who as S. Augustine saith tolerate for the (u) Ep. 162. good of Vnity that which they detest for the good of equity And to whome the more frequent and foule such scandals are by so much the more is the merit of their perseuerance in the Communion of the Church and the Martyrdome of their patience as the same Saint cals it If they were offended with the life of some Ecclesiasticall persons must they therefore deny obedience to their Pastours and finally breake with Gods Church The Pastour of Pastours teacheth vs another lesson Vpon the Chaire of Moyses (w) Mat. 33. haue sitten the Scribes Pharises All thinges therefore whatsoeuer they shall say to you obserue yee doe yee but according to their workes do yee not Must people except agaynst lawes and reuolt from Magistrates because some are negligent or corrupt in the execution of the same lawes and performance of their office If they intended Reformation of manners they vsed a strange meanes for the achieuing of such an end by denying the necessity of Confession laughing at austerity of pennance condemning the vowes of Chastity pouerty obedience breaking fasts c. And no lesse vnfit were the Men then the Meanes I loue not recrimination But it is well knowne to how great crimes Luther Caluin Zwinglius Beza and other of the prime Reformers were notorioussy obnoxious as might be easily demonstrated by the only transcribing of what others haue deliuered vpon that subiect whereby it would appeare that they were very farre from being any such Apostolicall men as God is wont to vse in so great a worke And whereas they were wont especially in the beginning of their reuolt maliciously to exaggerate the faults of some Clergy men Erasmus said well Epist ad fratres inferioris Germaniae Let the riot lust ambition auarice of Priests and whatsoeuer other crimes be gathered together Heresy alone doth exceed all this filthy lake of vices Besides nothing at all was omitted by the sacred Councell of Trent which might tend to reformation of manners And finally the vices of others are not hurtfull to any but such as imitate and consent to them according to the saying of S. Augustine We conserue (y) De vnit Eccles c. 2â— innocency not by knowing the ill deeds of men but by not yielding consent to such as we know and by not iudging rashly of such faults as we know not If you answere that not corruption in manners but the approbation of them doth yield sufficient cause to leaue the Church I reply with S. Augustine That the Church doth as the pretended Reformers ought to haue done tolerate or beare with scandals and corruptions but neither doth nor can approue them The Church sayth he being placed (z) Ep. 116. betwixt much chaffe and cockle doth beare with many things but doth not approue nor dissemble nor act those things which are against fayth and good life But because to approue corruption in manners as lawfull were an errour against Fayth it belongs to corruption in doctrine which was the second part of my demaund 19. Now then that
You say that it is comfort inough for the Church that the Lord in merey will secure her from all capitall dangers but she may not hope to triumph ouer all sinne and errour till she be in heauen Now if it be comfort inough to be secured from all capital daÌ„gers which can arise only from errour in fundamentall points why were not your first Reformers content with Inough but would needs dismeÌ„ber the Church out of a pernicious greedines of more then Inough For this Inough which according to you is attained by not erring in points not fundameÌ„tal was enioyed before Luthers reformation vnlesse you will now against your selfe affirme that loÌ„g before Luther there was no Church free from errour in fundamental points Moreouer if as you say no Church may hope to triumph ouer all errour till she be in heauâ—n You must eyther grant that errours not fundamentall cannot yield sufficieÌ„t cause to forsake the Church or els you must affirme that all Communities may ought to be forsaken so there wil be no end of Schismes or rather indeed there can be no such thinge as Schisme because according to you all Communities are subiect to errours not fundamentall for which if they may be lawfully forsaken it followeth cleerely that it is not Schisme to forsake them Lastly since it is not lawfull to leaue the Communion of the Church for abuses in life and manners because such miseries cannot be auoided in this world of temptation and since according to your Assertion no Church may hope to triumph oner all sinne and errour You must grant that as she ought not to be left by reason of sinne so neyther by reason of errours not fundamental because both sinne errour are according to you impossible to be auoided til she be in heaueÌ„ 23. Furthermore I aske whether it be the Quantity or Number or Quality and Greatnes of doctrinall errours that may yield sufficient cause to relinquish the Churches Communion I proue that neyther Not the Quality which is supposed to be beneath the degree of points fundamentall or necessary to saluation Not the Quantity or Number For the foundation is strong inough to support all such vnnecessary additions as you terme them And if they once weighed so heauy as to ouerthrow the foundation they should grow to fundamentall errors into which your selfe teach the Church cannot fall Hay and stubble say you and such (g) pag. 153. vnprofitable stuff laid on the roofe destroies not the howse whilest the maine pillars are standing on the foundation And tell vs I pray you the precise number of errors which cannot be tolerated I know you cannot do it and therfore being vncertaine whether or no you haue cause to leaue the Church you are certainely obliged not to forsake her Our blessed Sauiour hath declared his will that we forgiue a priuate offender seauenty seauen times that is without limitation of quantity of time or quality of trespasses and why then dare you alledge his commaund that you must not pardon his Church for errors acknowledged to be not fundamentall What excuse can you faigne to your selues who for points not necessary to saluation haue been occasions causes and authors of so many mischiefes as could not but vnaucydably accompany so huge a breach in kingdomes in Common wealths in priuate persons in publique Magistrates in body in soule in goods in lise in Church in the state by Schismes by rebellions by war by famine by plague by bloudshed by all sorts of imaginable calamities vpon the whole face of the Earth wherin as in a map of Desolation the heauines of your crime appeares vnder which the world doth pant 24. To say for your excuse that you left not the Church but her errors doth not extenuate but aggrauate your sinne For by this deuise you sow seeds of endles Schismes put into the mouth of all Separatists a ready answere how to auoide the note of Schisme from your Protestant Church of England or from any other Church whatsoeuer They will I say answere as you do prompt that your Church may be forsaken if she fall into errors though they be not fundamentall And further that no Church must hope to be free from such errors which two grounds being once laid it will not be hard to infer the consequence that she may be forsaken 25. From some other words of D. Potter I like wise proue that for Errors not fundamentall the Church ought not to be forsaken There neither was sayth he nor can be (h) Pag. 5. any iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe To depart from a particular Church namely from the Church of Rome in some doctrines and practises there might be iust and necessary cause though the Church of Rome wanted nothing necessary to saluation Marke his doctrine that there can be no iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ and yet he teacheth that the Church of Christ may erre in points not fundamentall Therfore say I we cannot forsake the Roman Church for points not fundamental for then we might also forsake the Church of Christ which your selfe deny and I pray you consider whether you do not plainely contradict your selfe while in the words aboue recited you say there can be no iust cause to forsake the Catholique Church and yet that there may be necessary cause to depart from the Church of Rome since you grant that the Church of Christ may erre in points not fundamentall that the Roman Church hath erred only in such points as by and by we shall see more in particular And thus much be said to disproue their chiefest Answere that they left not the Church but her Corruptions 26. Another euasion D. Potter bringeth to auoid the imputation of Schisme and it is because they still acknowledge the Church of Rome to be a Member of the body of Christ and not cut off from the hope of saluation And this sayth he cleares vs from (i) pag. 76. the imputation of Schisme whose property it is to cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of saluation the Church from which it separates 27. This is an Answere which perhaps you may get some one to approue if first you can put him out of his wits For what prodigious doctrines are these Those Protestants who belieue that the Church erred in points necessary to saluation and for that cause left her cannot be excused from damnable Schisme But others who belieued that she had no damnable errors did very well yea were obliged to forsake her and which is more miraculous or rather monstrous they did well to forsake her formally and precisely because they iudged that she retained all meanes necessary to saluation I say because they so iudged For the very reason for which he acquitteth himselfe and condemneth those others as Schismatiques is because he holdeth that the Church which both of them forsooke is
the soule depends And now because he shall not taxe me with being like those men in the Gospell whom our blessed Lord and Sauiour charged with laying heauy burdens vpon other mens shoulders who yet would not touch them with their finger I oblige my selfe to answere vpon any demaund of his both to all these Questions if he find that I haue not done it already and to any other concerning matter of faith that he shall aske And I will tell him very plainly what is Catholique doctrine and what is not that is what is defined or what is not defined and rests but in discussion among Deuines 22. And it will be heere expected that he performe these things as a man who professeth learning should doe not flying from questions which concerne things as they are considered in their owne nature to accidentall or rare circumstances of ignorance incapacity want of meanes to be instructed erroneous cōscience and the like which being very various and different cannot be well comprehended vnder any generall Rule But in deliuering generall doctrines we must consider things as they be ex naturarei or per se loquendo as Deuines speake that is according to their natures if all circumstances concurre proportionable thereunto As for example some may for a time haue inuincible ignorance euen of some fundamentall article of fayth through want of capacity instruction or the like and so not offend eyther in such ignorance or errour and yet we must absolutely say that errour in any one fundamentall point is damnable because so it is if we consider things in themselues abstracting from accidentall circumstances in particuler persons as contrarily if some man iudge some act of vertue or some indifferent action to be a sinne in him it is a sinne indeed by reason of his erroneous conscience and yet we ought not to say absolutely that vertuous or indifferent actions are sinnes and in all sciences we must distinguish the generall Rules from their particuler Exceptions And therefore when for example he answers to our demand whether he hold that Catholiques may be saued or whether their pretended errours be fundamentall and damnable he is not to change the state of the question and haue recourse to Ignorance and the like but to answere concerning the errours being considered what they are apt to be in themselues and as they are neyther increased nor diminished by accidentall circumstances 23. And the like I say of all the other points to which I once againe desire an answere without any of these or the like ambiguous termes in some sort in some sease in some degree which may be explicated afterward as strictly or largely as may best serue his turne but let him tell vs roundly and particulerly in what sort in what sense in what degree he vnderstands those the like obscure mincing phrases If he proceed solidly after this manner and not by way of meere words more like a Preacher to a vulgar Auditour then like a learned man with a pen in his hand thy patience shall be the lesse abused and truth will also receiue more right And since we haue already layed the grounds of the question much may be sayd heereafter in few words if as I sayd he keep close to the reall point of euery difficulty without wandring into impertinent disputes multiplying vulgar and threed-bare obiections and arguments or labouring to proue what no mā denies or making a vaine ostentation by citing a number of Schoolemen which euery Puny brought vp in Schooles is able to doe and if he cite his Authours with such sincerity as no time need be spent in opening his corruptions and finally if he set himselfe a worke with this consideration that we are to giue a most strict accompt to a most iust and vnpartiall Iudge of euery period line and word that passeth vnder our pen. For if at the later day we shall be arraigned for euery idle word which is spoken so much more will that be done for euery idle word which is written as the deliberation wherwith it passeth makes a man guilty of more malice and as the importance of the matter which is treated of in bookes concerning true fayth and religion without which no Soule can be saued makes a mans Errours more materiall then they would be if question were but of toyes A TABLE OF THE Chapters and Contents of this ensuing First Part of Reply CHAP. I. THE true state of the Question VVith a Summary of the Reasons for vvhich amongst men of different Religions one side only can be saued CHAP. II. VVhat is that meanes vvherby the reuealed truths of God are conueyed to our Vnderstanding and vvhich must determine Controuersies in Fayth and Religion CHAP. III. That the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall is neither pertinent nor true in our present Controuersy And that the Catholique visible Church cannot erre in eyther kind of the sayd points CHAP. IIII. To say that the Creed containes all points necessarily to be belieued is neyther pertinent to the Question in hand nor in it selfe true CHAP. V. That Luther Caluin their associates and all vvho began or continue the separation from the externall Communion of the Roman Church are guilty of the proper and formall sinne of Schisme CHAP. VI. That Luther and therest of Protestants haue added Heresy to Schisme CHAP. VII In regard of the Precept of Charity tovvards ones selfe Protestants are in state of Sinne as long as they remaine separated from the Roman Church THE FIRST PART The State of the Question vvith a Summary of the reasons for vvhich amongst men of different Religions one side onely can be saued CHAP. I. NEVER is Malice more indiscreet then when it chargeth others with imputation of that to which it selfe becoms more liable euen by that very act of accusing others For though guiltines be the effect of some errour yet vsually it begets a kind of Moderation so far forth as not to let men cast such aspersions vpon others as must apparantly reflect vpon themselues Thus cannot the Poet endure Quis tulerit Gracchum c. that Gracchus who was a factious and vnquiet man should be inueighing against Sedition and the Roman Oratour rebukes Philosophers who to wax glorious superscribed their Names vpon those very Bookes which they entitled Of the contempt of glory What then shall we say of D. Potter who in the Title and Text of his whole Booke doth so tragically charge Want of Charity on all such Romanists as dare affirme that Protestancy destroyeth Saluation while he himselfe is in act of pronouncing the like heauy doome against Roman Catholiques For not satisfied with much vnciuil language in affirming the Roman Church many (a) Pag. 11. wayes to haue played the Harlot and in that regard deserued a bill of diuorce from Christ and detestation of Christians in stiling her that proud (b) Ibid. and curst Dame of Rome which takes vpon her to reuell in
matters of faith great or small few or many the one cannot be saued without repentance vnles Ignorance accidentally may in some particuler person plead excuse For in that case of coÌ„trary beliefe one must of necessity be held to oppose Gods word or Reuelation sufficiently represented to his vnderstaÌ„ding by an infallible Propounder which oppositioÌ„ to the Testimony of God is vndoutedly a damnable sin whether otherwise the thing so testifyed be in it selfe great or small And thus we haue already made good what was promised in the argument of this Chapter that amongst men of different Religions one is only capable of being saued 9. Neuertheles to the end that men may know in particular what is the sayd infallible meanes vpon which we are to rely in all things concerning Fayth and accordingly may be able to iudge in what safety or danger more or lesse they liue and because D. Potter descendeth to diuers particulers about Scriptures and the Church c. we will go forward proue that although Scripture be in it selfe most sacred infallible diuine yet it alone cannot be to vs a Rule or Iudge fit and able to end all doubts and debates emergent in matters of Religion but that there must be some externall visible publique liuing Iudge to whome all sorts of persons both lâ—aâ—ned vnlearned may without danger of â—â—â—our haue recourse and in whose Iudgment they may rest for the interpreting and propounding of Gods Word or Reuclation And this liuing Iudge we will most euidently proue to be no other but that Holy Catholique Apostolique and Visible Church which our Sauiour purchased with the effusion of his most precious bloud 10. If once therefore it be granted that the Church is that means which God hath left for deciding all CoÌ„trouersies in faith it manifestly will follow that she must be infallible in all her determinations whether the matters of theÌ„selues be great or small because as we sayd aboue it must be agreed on all sides that if that meanes which God hath left to determine Controuersies were not infallible in all things proposed by it as truths reuealed by Almighty God it could not settle in our minds a firme and infallible beliefe of any one 11. From this Vniuersall Infallibility of God's Church it followeth that whosoeuer wittingly denieth any one point proposed by her as reuealed by God is iniurious to his diuine Maiesty as if he could either deceiue or be deceiued in what he testifieth The auerring whereof were not only a fundamentall error but would ouerthrow the very foundation of all fundamentall points and therefore without repentance could not possibly stand with saluation 12 Out of these grounds we will shew that although the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall be good and vsefull as it is deliuered and applied by Catholique Deuines to teach what principall Articles of faith Christians are obliged explicitely to belieue yet that it is impertinent to the present purpose of excusing any man from grieuous sinne who knowingly disbelieues that is belieues the contrary of that which Gods Church proposeth as diuine Truth For it is one thing not to know explicitly some thing testifyed by God another positiuely to oppose what we know he hath testified The former may often be excused from sinne but neuer the latter which only is the case in Question 13. In the same manner shall be demonstrated that to alleadge the Creed as contayning all Articles of faith necessary to be explicitely belieued is not pertinent to free from sinne the voluntary deniall of any other point knowen to be defined by Gods Church And this were sufficient to ouerthrow all that D. Potter alleadgeth concerning the Creed though yet by way of Supererogation we will proue that there are diuers importaÌ„t matters of Faith which are not mentioned at all in the Creed 14. From the aforesaid maine principle that God hath alwayes had and alwaies will haue on earth a Church Visible within whose Communion Saluation must be hoped and infallible whose definitions we ought to belieue we will proue that Luther Caluin and all other who continue the diuision in Communion or Faith from that Visible Church which at and before Luthers appearance was spread ouer the world cannot be excused from Schisme and Heresy although they opposed her faith but in onâ— only point wheras it is manifest they dissent from her in many and weighty matters concerning as well beliefe as practise 15. To these reasons drawne from the vertue of Faith we will add one other taken from Charitas propria the Vertue of Charity as it obligeth vs not to expose our soule to hazard of perdition when we can put our selues in a way much more secure as we will proue that of the Roman Catholiques to be 16. We are then to proue these points First that the infallible meanes to determine controuersies in matters of faith is the visible Church of Christ Secondly that the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall maketh nothing to our present Question Thirdly that to say the Creed containes all fundamentall points of faith is neither pertinent nor true Fourthly that both Luther all they who after him persist in diuision from the Communion and Faith of the Roman Church cannot be excused from Schisme Fifthly nor from Heresy Sixtly and lastly that in regard of the precept of Charity towards ones selfe Protestants be in state of sinne as long as they remaine diuided from the Roman Church And these six points shall be seuerall Arguments for so many ensuing Chapters 17. Only I will heere obserue that it seemeth very strange that Protestants should charge vs so deeply with Want of Charity for only teaching that both they and we cannot be saued seeing themselues must affirme the like of whosoeuer opposeth any least point deliuered in Scripture which they hold to be the sole Rule of Faith Out of which ground they must be enforced to let all our former Inferences passe for good For is it not a grieuous sinne to deny any one truth contained in holy Writ Is there in such deniall any distinction betwixt points fundamentall and not fundamentall sufficient to excuse from heresy Is it not impertinent to alleadge the Creed contayning all fundamentall points of faith as if belieuing it alone we were at liberty to deny all other points of Scripture In a word According to Protestants Oppose not Scripture there is no Errour against faith Oppose it in any least point the error if Scripture be sufficiently proposed which proposition is also required before a man can be obliged to belieue euen fundameÌ„tall points must be damnable What is this but to say with vs Of persons contrary in whatsoeuer point of beliefe one party only can be saued And D. Potter must not take it ill if Catholiques belieue they may be saued in that Religion for which they suffer And if by occasion of this doctrine men will still be charging vs with Want
heard that what the Church teacheth is truly said to be taught by Scripture and consequently to deny this particuler point deliuered by the Church is to oppose Scripture it selfe Yet if he will needs hold that this point is not fundamentall we must conclude out of S. Augustine as we did concerning the baptizing of Children that the infallibility of the Church reacheth to points not fundamentall The same Father in another place concerning this very question of the validity of Baptisme conferred by Heretiques sayth The (a) De Bapt. cont Donat. lib. 5. cap. 23. Apostles indeed haue prescribed nothing of this but this Custome ought to be belieued to be originally taken from their tradition as there are many things that the vniuersall Church obserueth which are therfore with good reason belieued to haue beene commanded by the Apostles although they be not written No lesse cleere is S. Chrysostome for the infallibility of the Traditions of the Church For treating these words 2. Thess 2. Stand and hold the Traditions which you haue learned whether by speach or by our Epistle saith Hence it is (b) Hom. 4. manifest that they deliuered not all things by letter but many things also without writing these also are worthy of beliefe Let vs therfore account the tradition of the Church to be worthy of beliefe It is a Tradition Seeke no more Which words are so plaine against Protestants that Whitaker is as plaine with S. Chrysostome saying I answere (c) De Sacra Script pag. 678. that this is an inconsiderate speach and vnworthy so great a Father But let vs conclude with S. Augustine that the Church cannot approue any error against fayth or good manners The Church sayth he being (d) Ep. 119. placed betwixt much chasse cockle doth tollerate many things but yet she doth not approue nor dissemble nor do those things which are against fayth or good life 17. And as I haue proued that Protestants according to their grounds cannot yield infallible assent to the Church in any one point so by the same reason I proue that they cannot rely vpon Scripture it selfe in any one point of sayth Not in points of lesser moment or not fundamentall because in such points the Catholique Church according to D. Potter and much more any Protestant may erre thinke it is contained in Scripture when it is not Not in points fundamentall because they must first know what points be fundamentall before they can be assured that they cannot erre in vnderstanding the Scripture and consequently independantly of Scripture they must foreknow all fundamentall points of fayth and therfore they do not indeed rely vpon Scripture either for fundamentall or not fundamentall points 18. Besides I mainely vrge D. Potter and other Protestants that they tell vs of certaine points which they call fundamentall and we cannot wrest from them a list in particuler of such points without which no man can tell whether or no he erre in points fundamentall and be capable of saluation And which is most lamentable insteed of giuing vs such a Catalogue they fall to wrangle among themselues about the making of it 19. Caluin holds the (e) Instit. l. 4. çap. 2. Popes Primacy Inuocation of Saints Freewill and such like to be fundamentall errors ouerthrowing the Gospell Others are not of his mind as Melancthon who sayth in (f) Cent. Ep. Theolog. cp 74. the opinion of himselfe and other his Brethren That the Monarchy of the Bishop of Rome is of vse or profit to this end that Consent of Doctrine may be retained An agreement therfore may easily be established in this Article of the Popes Primacy if other Articles could be agreed vpon If the Popes Primacy be a meanes that consent of Doctrine may be retained first submit to it and other articles wil be easily agreed vpon Luther also sayth of the Popes Primacy it may be borne (g) In Assertionibus art 36. withâ—â— And why then O Luther did you not beare with it And how can you and your followers be excused from damnable Schisme who chose rather to deuide Gods Church then to beare with that which you confesse may be borne withall But let vs go forward That the doctrine of free-will Prayer for the dead worshipping of Images Worship and Inuocation of Saints Reall presence Transubstantiation Receauing vnder one kind Satisfaction and Merit of workes and the Masse be not fundamentall Errours is taught respectiuè by diuers Protestants carefully alledged in the Protestants (h) Tract 2. cap. 2. Sect. 14. after F. Apology c. as namely by Perkins Cartwright Frith Fulke Henry Spark Goade Luther Reynolds Whitaker Tindall Francis Fohnson with others Contrary to these is the Confession of the Christian fayth so called by ProtestaÌ„ts which I mentioned (i) Cap. 1. n. 4. heertofore wherin we are damned vnto vnquencheable fire for the doctrine of Masse Prayer to Saints and for the dead Freewill Presence at Idol-seruice Mans merit with such like IustificatioÌ„ by saith alone is by some Protestants affirmed to be the soule of the (k) Chark in the Tower disputation the 4. dayes conference Church The only principall origen of (l) Fox Act. Monn pag. 402. Saluation of all other points of (m) The Confession of Bohemia in the Harmony of Confessions pag. 253. dectrine the chiefest and weightiâ—st Which yet as we haue seen is coÌ„trary to other Protestants who teach that merit of good workes is not a fundamentall Errour yea diuers Protestants defend merit of good works as may be seene in (n) Tract 3. Sect. 7. vnder nt n. 15. Brereley One would thinke that the Kings Supremacy for which some blessed men lost their liues was once among Protestants held for a Capitall point but now D. Andrewes late of Winchester in his booke agaynst Bellarmine tells vs that it is sufficient to reckon it among true doctrines And Wotton denies that Protestants (o) In his answere to a Popish pamphlet p. 68. Hold the Kings Supremacy to be an essentiall point of fayth O freedome of the new Ghospell Hold with Catholiques the Pope or with Protestants the King or with Puritanes neyther Pope nor King to be Head of the Church all is one you may be saued Some as Castalio (p) Vid. Gul. Reginald Caln Turcism lib. 2. çap. 6. and the whole Sect of the Academicall Protestants hold that doctrines about the Supper Baptisme the state and office of Christ how he is one with his Father the Trinity Predestination and diuers other such questions are not necessary to SaluatioÌ„ And that you may obserue how vngrounded and partiall their Assertions be Perkins teacheth that the Reall presence of our Sauiours Body in the SacrameÌ„t as it is belieued by Catholiques is a fundamentall errour and yet affirmeth the Consubstantiation of Lutherans not to be such notwithstaÌ„ding that diuers chiefe Lutherans to their Consubstantiation ioyne the prodigious Heresy of Vbiquitation D. Vshher in
the Donatists in whome you exeÌ„plify did by affirming that the true Church had perished and therefore they cannot be cleared from Schisme if you may be their Iudge Consider I pray you how many prime Protestants both domesticall and forraine you haue at one blow strucke off from hope of Saluation and condemned to the lowest pit for the grieuous sinne of Schisme And withall it imports you to consider that you also inuolue your selfe and other moderate Protestants in the selfe same crime and punishment while you communicate with those who according to your owne principles are properly and formally Schismatiques For if you held your selfe obliged vnder paine of damnation to forsake the Communion of the Roman Church by reason of her Errors and Corruptions which yet you confesse were not fundamentall shall it not be much more damnable for you to liue in Communion and Confraternity with those who defend an errour of the fayling of the Church which in the Donatists you confesse (i) pag. 12â— to haue been properly hereticall against the Article of our Creed I belieue the Church And I desire the Reader heer to apply an authority of S. Cyprian ep 76. which he shall find alledged in the next number And this may suffice for confutation of the aforesaid Answere as it might haue relation to the rigid Caluinists 17. For Confutation of those Protestants who hold that the Church of Christ had alwayes a being and cannot erre in points fundamentall and yet teach that she may erre in matters of lesse moment wherin if they forsake her they would be accounted not to leaue the Church but only her corruptions I must say that they change the state of our present Question not distinguishing between internall Fayth and externall Communion nor between Schisme and Heresy This I demonstrate out of D. Potter himselfe who in expresse words teacheth that the promises which our Lord hath made (k) pa. 151. vnto his Church for his assistance are intended not to any particular Persons or Churches but only to the Church Catholique and they are to be extended not to euery parcel or particularity of truth but only to points of Faith or fundamentall And afterwards speaking of the Vniuersall Church he sayth It 's comfort (l) pag. 155. inough for the Church that the Lord in mercy will secure her from all capitall dangers and conserue her on earth against all enemies but she may not hope to triumph ouer all sinne and errour till she be in heauâ—n Out of which words I obserue that according to D. Potter the selfe same Church which is the Vniuersall Church remayning the vniuersall true Church of Christ may fall into errors and corruptions from whence it cleerely followeth that it is impossible to leaue the Externall communion of the Church so corrupted and retaine externall communion with the Catholique Church since the Church Catholique and the Church so corrupted is the selfe same one Church or company of men And the contrary imagination talkes in a dreame as if the errors and infections of the Catholique Church were not inherent in her but were separate from her like to Accidents without any Subiect or rather indeed as if they were not Accidents but Hypostases or Persons subsisting by themselues For men cannot be said to liue in or out of the Communion of any dead creature but with Persons endued with life and reason and much lesse can men be said to liue in the Communion of Accidents as errors and corruptions are and therfore it is an absurd thing to affirme that Protestants diuided theÌ„selues from the corruptions of the Church but not from the Church herselfe seing the corruptions of the Church were inherent in the Church All this is made more cleere if we consider that when Luther appeared there were not two distinct visible true Catholique Churches holding contrary Doctrines and diuided in externall Communion one of the which two Churches did triumph ouer all error and corruption in doctrine and practise but the other was stained with both For to faigne this diuersity of two Churches cannot stand with record of histories which are silent of any such matter It is against D. Potters owne grounds that the Church may erre in points not fundamentall which were not true if you will imagine a certaine visible Catholique Church free from error euen in points not fundamentall It contradicteth the words in which he said the Church may not hope to triumph ouer all error till she be in heauen It euacuateth the brag of Protestants that Luther reformed the whole Church and lastly it maketh Luther a Schismatique for leauing the CoÌ„munion of all visible Churches seeing vpon this supposition there was a visible Church of Christ free from al corruption which therefore could not be forsaken without iust imputation of Schisme We must therefore truly affirme that since there was but one visible Church of Christ which was truly Catholique and yet was according to Protestants stained with corruption when Luther left the external CoÌ„munion of that corrupted Church he could not remaine in the Communion of the Catholique Church no more then it is possible to keep company with Christopher Potter and not keepe company with the Prouost of Queenes Colledge in Oxford if D. Potter and the Prouost be one and the selfe same man For so one should be and not be with him at the same time This very argument drawne from the Vnity of God's Church S. Cyprian v rgeth to conuince that Nouatianus was cut off from the Church in these words The Church is (m) Epist. 16. ad Mag. One which being One cannot be both within and without If she be with Nouatianus she was not with Cornelius But if she were with cornelius who succeeded Fabianus by lawfull ordination Nouatianus is not in the Church I purposely heere speak only of externall CoÌ„munion with the Catholique Church For in this point there is great difference between internall acts of our Vnderstanding and will and of externall deeds Our Vnderstanding and Will are faculties as Philosophers speake abstractiue and able to distinguish and as it were to part things though in themselues they be really conioyned But reall externall deeds do take things in grosse as they find them not separating things which in reality are ioyned together Thus one may consider and loue a sinner as he is a man frieÌ„d benefactor or the like and at the same time not consider him nor loue him as he is a sinner because these are acts of our Vnderstanding and Will which may respect their obiects vnder some one formality or consideration without reference to other things contained in the selfe same obiects But if one should strike or kill a sinnefull man he will not be excused by alledging that he killed him not as a man but as a sinner because the selfe same person being a man and the sinner the externall act of murder fell iointly vpon the man the sinner And