Selected quad for the lemma: state_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
state_n	church_n	member_n	visible_a	2,963	5	9.4470	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A49587	A discourse of paying of tithes by T.L. ... ; together with an appendix ...	Larkham, Thomas, 1602-1669.	1656 (1656)	Wing L441A; ESTC R41027	20,618	58

to separate betweene the precious and the vile and bemore faithful in their trust and then God will teach men to be more forward to pay them their due and to allow them at least competencies if they be not convinced of this truth of the Divine Right of paying of tythes which I wish were more searched into as all truths ought to be without partiality Object Object But it will be an act of injustice to take away from men that which is their proper right by the ancient Lawes of men and which men have bought and paid for and to give it to such as have no right thereunto whose it never was in any ones opinion for indeed if tythes be not the Lords as hath formerly beene shewed they are they must needs be theirs whom Law and possession hath setled them upon Now to take tythes from them that claim them receive them as their right by Law which determines propriety without allowing a valuable consideration may seeme to be great iniquity Sol. Sol. To which I answer that if to withhold goods from the owner be a sin and forbidden as it is in the Word of God then it can be no sinne in the Magistrate to judge the restoring of them to the rightful owner and to turne the streame into its proper channel The case is the same touching tythes whether you look upon them as due by the Moral Law to Ministers or as devoted in the elder times of the Gospel-Church though for my part I rather believe the former but we will not make more questions then need to divide the worshippers of God The scope of this Tract being to evince the duty of this present Power to take tythes away as now they are payable and to put people into a capacity of doing their duty Object Object But if the Lawes of men do not compel persons to do their duty they will be re●●isse and negligent c. Sol. Sol. To which I answer The Churches are to take cognisance of miscarriages in their proper and peculiar members and they have not the power of the Keyes committed to them in vaine it is not sword work either Military or Civil to force peoples consciences but the work of the Spirits sword as hath formerly beene hinted Quest Quest But what course then shall be taken to provide for such as are to instruct the world Answ Answ I answer Churches may send out members and the State if they see it fit may out of Gleeb-lands so called or other devoted Revenues or by Taxes and Rates allow such or any others whom they shall judge meet for that work of preaching whether Church-officers or others a convenient stipend or pay provided that church-Church-members be not robbed of that which they are carrying to the Lord as his portion by his owne appointment and ordinance There may be many wayes thought upon to furnish the Nation with able godly Teachers and Preachers either fixed or itinerary which may be authorized and maintained in this excellent needful imployment if they be not Church-officers and if they be Church-officers then care is taken for them already by the Ordinance of God as hath beene shewed and indeed such only are fit unlesse in case of extreme necessity for that work of publike preaching and it will tend much to the making of peace among Professors of Religion and it is very suitable to the ancient practice of the Church in the times after the Apostles Athanasius against the Messalians writeth that there were diverse Bishops in some one Church though not in that of Alexandria And D. Sutliffe de pont lib. 1. chap. 5. saith that Paul towne by towne appointed Presbyters and Bishops And Epiphanius cont haeres lib. 2. haeres 27. And Eusebius also in his Ecclesiastical story reckons both Peter and Paul for Bishops at Rome both at one time But I lay not much weight on these things Only to shew you that if in one particular Church there be divers Ministers Bishops Presbyters Elders call them by which of these names you will there may be a sparing of some of them by course to instruct the world and yet they may be ready also to preserve good order in the particular Churches to whom they do belong and to propagate the Ordination for the perpetuity of Churches respectively others to succeed them from time to time upon the election of the members of each Church of fit men so to be presented to them to receive Ordination And as Calvin lib. 4. cap. 3. sect 8 15. lib. 4. cap. 4. sect 1. affirmeth that from among the company of the Presbyters some were chosen to be Pastours and Teachers and the rest were Overseers and Censurers of the behaviours of the people so why may not these by course or some of them be chosen to preach and teach abroad and receive their livelihood from the Churches to whom they do belong out of the tythes paid in to them by the members and due unto them as Ministers of those Churches For I would not have you think that one man should scrape hundreds together from the Church as some Parsons so called now do but that tythes should be brought into Gods store-house as we read they were commanded to be Mal. 3.1 and so imployed to the service of God in maintaining Ministers and Church-officers But I am sensible of the running of my Pen. I therefore returne to the Answer to the Question viz. that men of small reach may easily finde out wayes for instructing the world that do not submit to any Church Bishops or Ministers of old had the care of both Cities in which they lived and Countries adjoyning and besides Church-members and others live promiscuously together in most places if they do not care may be taken without so much ado for teaching and instructing all Whole Cities or townes were not Churches in ancient time neither ought they to be so now We read of the Church of Smyrna one of the seven Churches of Asia where Polycarpus was Pastor as soone as he was knowne to be a Christian was martyred by the rage of the multitude and that as Eusebius Eccles hist lib. 4. cap. 15. recordeth in the sight of his owne people The whole Cities there were not Churches if they had been how could the Church of Smyrna writing to other Churches of the foresaid martyrdome entitle her selfe the Church of God which is at Smyrna And yet I will not deny but there might be some few here there in the town and hamlets thereabout which belonged to the Churches in the greater towns and cities but not as now where Tavistock town is one thing and Tavistock parish another because it is supposed all that are within the precincts of the parish must needs be members of the Church there and so hath it beene accounted formerly but I must confesse without fear it is otherwise now And why may it not be so in other places I teach all in

as it is written of the Governors of Judah Zach. 12.6 Will be like a heath of fire among wood and like a torch of fire in a sheaf and devoure all that stands against it on the right hand and on the left But to the matter in hand For the point of taking away tythes as now they are required and many molested and grieved in spirit some even precious ones for being unwilling to pay them as now made payable and yet made by force so to do I say for this I suppose I shall have many approvers of what I write among such as pretend to the exactest Reformation But the other branch of my assertion will not so easily go down with them Well if it will not yet I hope yet they will not be uncharitable of me that write what I judge to be true and what I think more Saints will see to be a truth shortly In the meane time however I trust that all that have the face of Religion will be lo●th under a Gospel dispensation shining as the Sun in its strength to be worse and more backward to Minister to the Lord of their substance then the Jewes were who lived under such dark Typical and umbratical administrations And in the meane time I hold forth no other compulsories to be made use of but such as are to work upon conscience for these are the weapons Ministers and Churches must make use of judging such for my part as can finde in their heart to neglect expresse commands of Scripture concerning Ministers maintenance and distributing to the necessities of the Saints yea of any that are in want to be unmeet for communion in Church-Ordinances And let such as will not hear the Church know that the Lord is coming Doubtlesse did Ministers and Saints wield and look upon spiritual weapons with faithful hands and awful eyes there would more be done in souls I meane borne of the spirit incomparably then by all the force of an arme of flesh can ever be expected But I am afraid many Ministers had rather serve the State for visible shpends then Jesus Christ upon Scripture pay which is one maine cause I am perswaded though they shall surely answer for it that so use us that we are so vile and contemptible among the people But some objections are to be answered Obj. 1 Obj. 1. As first that this Nation is uncapable of this way and work there being so many in it whose estates are upon the matter made up of tythes c. and therefore it is at least unseasonable though possibly taking away of tythes as now payable may be effected in time to come Sol. Sol. To which I answer that the Scripture gives us many examples of such as have acted by halves about necessary works upon reasons of State and grounds of policy who have alwayes found at last it had been better for them to have walked exactly and to have done to the utmost what God would have had them to do A grave wise counsel was led into a very ill practice to wit to Vote the Son of God to death upon a reason of policy John 11.47 onward in divers verses And besides we have had experience that some have let slip opportunities and nicks of time wherein they might have done great things which they could never recover again Now therefore while the spirits of the most of the godly in the Land are and have beene upon this point of extirpation of this root of mischief which lieth in the way of advancing Gospel-reformation paying of tythes I mean as they are now required to be paid it seems to me to be the duty of all so farre as in them lieth to promote this work before the door be fully shut and God disowne the present actors for want of faith courage diligence and sincerity And although a sentence of death seem to be passed already upon Christs cause in this particular yet we should not flinch or be discouraged as long as there is any the least possibility of doing good And lastly the procrastinating of a work which God hath marked our to be now to be done by the votes of his sealed ones in all places is a very great offence As in Haggai's time the work of building of the Temple was put off under pretence the time was not come Hag. 1.2 for which they are sharply reproved Obj. 2 Obj. 2. But it may further be objected that the greatest wisest and most learned in the Land cry shame of such motions and some that have beene forward this way have now learned more wit and are as much against it as ever they were for it c. Sol. Sol. True it is Gods works though in their season have seldome found the friendship of great ones Truths of God especially touching upon interests are a continual offence to the great men of this world Have any of the Rulers or Pharisees believed in him was thought a good plea in Christs time Not many wise not many mighty not many noble in Pauls time It is not long agone I taught out of this Scripture But their Nobles put not their neck to the work of their God I confesse this is a great discouragement to many Men of princely race noble blood great parts are not usually saved first The Lord shal save THE TENTS of Judah first Zach. 12.7 And therefore I am not utterly cast down to see many great and learned ones withdrawing their hands from Gods work But I humbly propound two things First whether Moral precepts are out of date I hope none think so that resolve that Christ is Lord and King of his Church and that Morals are of eternal verity 'T is true I confesse that neither this Law of Decimation or tythes nor yet that of a Septimarian Sabbath are primarily Moral but that they are secundarily and positively Moral I have formerly proved for the one and judge so of the other though it be not my present work now to meddle with it And I am perswaded many that dislike my way of handling this matter are yet clear enough of the same judgement with me viz. that tythes are the Lords portion and due Jure Divino Then secondly I humbly demand whether there can be greater evidence that this is a truth of God about removing what hindereth the practising of it I meane then have beene in our age when the spirits of men are raised to obey Christ in all things and to follow the Lamb whither soever he goeth For although it be true that much darknesse is among the godly party about the latter part of my Thesis that tythes are holy to the Lord Morally yet for the catching and snatching of them which is now in use and the compelling of people to give not to Caesar only but to Nobles Lawyers persecutors of the power of godliness and I know to whom else that which is Gods I am perswaded it is generally condemned in the hearts and spirits of