Selected quad for the lemma: state_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
state_n	church_n	infant_n	visible_a	1,818	5	10.0471	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A62870	Præcursor, or, A forerunner to a large review of the dispute concerning infant-baptism wherein many things both doctrinall and personal are cleared, about which Mr. Richard Baxter, in a book mock-titled Plain Scripture-proof of infants church-membership and baptism hath darkned the truth / by John Tomes.	Tombes, John, 1603?-1676.	1652 (1652)	Wing T1812; ESTC R27540	101,567	110

Tribe young or old men and women are gathered by the Apostles and other Preachers as Moses did gather together the Jewish Nation Exod. 19. Deut. 29. But saith Mr. B. 1. Hath he noi commanded to Disciple Nations I answer yes to make Disciples of all Nations by Preaching the Gospel to every Creature as it is Marke 16. 15. but no where by civil authority to gather a whole City Countrey or Tribe and to draw them into a National or City Covenant together old and young but to offer Christ and to baptize so many as are willing to embrace him 2. Saith Mr. B. Hath not the Father promised to give the Heathen or Nations for his inheritance and the uttermost parts of the earth for his possession Psal. 2. and that Nations shall serve him Answ. He hath and it is fulfilled but not in Mr. Bs. sense as if one whole Nation City Countrey or Tribe were gathered together in the manner Moses brought into Covenant all the Jewish Nation but as the Apostle speaks by ministring the Gospel Rom. 15. 16. the Gentiles that is believers among them are an offering to God glorifie God ver 9. praise him trust in him ver 11 12. so as it was foretold in Abraham all Nations should be blessed which is expounded Gal. 3. 7 8 9. Rom. 4. 17 18. believers of all other Nations as well as Jews 3. And that the Kingdoms of the world shall become the Kingdomes of the Lord and his Christ Ans. I reade those words Rev. 11. 15. but I find the time of fulfilling to be when the seventh Angel hath founded which some say is not till the world to come So Mr. Seager of the world to come part 1. sect 8. And this is not improbable from ver 18. and Revel 10. 6 7. The New Annot faith thus Antichrist is weakened and Christ hath begun to take the Kingdome out of his hand and shall have a visible Church like an Empire in all the known world and that to the end but that it is not yet 4. And do you not see it fulfilled before your eyes Are not Bewdley Kederminster c. and England till of late as fully Christs Disciple and so Church-members as the Jews were in Covenant with God and so Church-members Answ. If by it be meant the prophecies Psal. 2. 8. and 72. 11. I see them fulfilled though not in Mr. Bs. sense but the prophecie Revel 11. 15. I see not yet fulfilled I see at Bewdley Kederminster in England people who generally are called Christians but I do not see that all old and young are Disciples or Church-members or ought to be so accounted or that they were ever brought into such a Covenant as the Jews or-ought to be accounted Church-members by vertue of such a Covenant There is not a word in my writings to that effect Mr. B. chargeth me that I would not have Princes and Masters do what Abraham and Moses did in bringing the people of Israel into ' Covenant with God but I say that should they do so yet the Infants are not thereby to be accounted visible Church-members in a Christian Church The commission to gather the Christian Church was not given to the Emperour but Apostles The Apostles it is true were sent to proselyte them that were no Chuch-members and yet they were sent to proselyte or in the phrase of Scripture to Disciple the visible Church-members of the Jewish Church as well as the Gentiles What I said I still say that the different Church-call of the Jewish and Christian Churches is enough to shew a different church-Church-state and consequently the argument is not good from the Jewish Infants visible Church-membership to ours If Mr. Bs. judgement be not so commandable as to assent to what I say it is so much the lesse commendable The speech of Mr. Herle and the jest out of Matthiolus are misapplied When he saith why may we not write plainly against one anothers judgement by a loving consent He may know that it was my desire it should have been so that it was not so was from himself He that believes he hath shewed love in this his writing is very credulous For the rest if Mr. B. will have the patience and indifferency of judgement which is meet he may see an answer to his allegations about Gods mercy to Infants and the repeal of their visible Church-memship If he remain in his opinion which I much fear knowing him sowell as I do and I in mine we must leave our writings to others to judge especially to that day which shall declare every mans work being revealed in fire In the mean time sleighting his vain curse which is page 217. my prayer for him as my self is that we may do nothing against the truth but for the truth FINIS Cyprian and the other Collegues which in the Council were present to the number of 66. to brother Fidus greeting MOst dear brother we have read thy letters in which thou hast signified concerning one Victor a Presbyter that Therapius our Collegue in a time not ripe and with overmuch haste hath granted him peace before he had done full penance and satisfied the Lord God against whom he had offended Which thing hath enough moved us that he hath departed from the authority of our Decree that before the allowed and full time of fatisfaction and without the asking and privity of the common sort no infirmity urging nor necessity compelling peace should be granted to him But upon counsel weighed long with us it was enough to chide Therapius our Collegue in that he rashly did this and to have instructed him that for hereafter he do no such thing Yet we have not thought that the peace however once granted by a Priest of God should be taken away and for this cause we have permitted Victor to use the Communication granted to him But for what belongeth to the cause of Infants whom thou hast said should not be baptized within the second or third day in which they were born and that the law of antient Circumcision is to be considered so as that thou shouldest not think him that is born should be baptized and hallowed within the 8. day it seemed farre otherwise to all in our Council For unto this which thou thoughtest should be done none of us have agreed but all have rather judged that the mercy and grace of God is to be denied to none that are born of mankind For when the Lord in his Gospel saith The son of man came not to destroy mens souls but to save them as much as in us lies if it may be no soul is to be lost For what is wanting to him who is once formed in the wombe by the hand of God For to us and in our eyes they which are born do seem to receive growth according to the course of secular dayes but what ever things are made by God are perfected by the Majesty and work of God the Maker Lastly

is holy and that this intitles to baptisme The Jewes hereafter to be called are holy Rom. 11. 16. by election Mr. Cobbet Just vindic chap. 3 sect 1. page 37. The Jewes yet to come were in Pauls time holy federally Rom. 11. 15 16. not actually but intentionally yet not then baptizable the Mede● sai 13. 3. are called Gods sanctified ones yet not to be admitted visible Church-members I further add that in his general sense Legitimate might also signifie a state separate to God as being that onely posterity he allowes of according to his institution of marriage Mal. 2. 15. which is very frequently called holy by Divines And therefore letting passe his jocular tale my exception or answer to his reasoning from 1 Cor. 7. 14. deserves a better refutation then he hath yet given Then he makes me say that no Scripture speakes of holinesse in his sense whereas my words as above were more wary Mr. B. I think cannot shew c. And then tells me that the Jewes infants are called the Holy seed and that by covenant or law which is his sense and then chargeth me with laying by conscience and common modesty having little tendernesse of conscience in accusing his will in charging him with a grosse falshood that he was willing to carry things in generals and not to tell distinctly how infants are holy and in a state separated to God whereas he told me he meant holy by law or Covenant Notwithstanding which I may yet conceive him willing to carry things in generals sith this very explication is in generals the law or Covenant as he calls it being not distinctly named and shewed where it is and upon what conditions that state of separation to God which infants have is ascertained whether upon their own act or parents and if upon parents whether immediate or mediate whether to the truth and reality or profession nor wherein that state of separation to God consists or what is the benefit of it all or of some which perhaps I apprehend Mr. B. rightly in now yet not till I had read over his book again and again and pickt out his meaning by comparing many passages together which because he did not then nor since in his printed writings put together as others do in their theses they maintaine I guessed he was willing to carry things in the general and if I did say so which Mr. B. and I must take on his Scribes word in my Sermon without any caution Mr. B. might have imagined that I meant it with this caution which is ordinarily allowed in constructions of such speeches where thematter leades us to conceive them intended that I conceived him unwilling which might be the more allowed to me in that speech which I had not a word written when I spake it which of all other Mr. B. is least fit to except against me for having in print offended in this way in worse manner page 185. But to the matter now we conceive his meaning I still say the same that I think he cannot shew one place where holy is taken for separated to God in his sense He alleadgeth that the Jewes infants are called the holy seed though he name not the text which had been fit yet I guesse by his words page 83. he meanes Ezra 9. 2. in which place onely and Isaiah 6. 13. I find this terme in Scripture But Ezra 9. 2. doth not speak of infants but such a holy seed as mingled themselves with the people of the land which was in marriage which will not be said of infants nor is holy seed there meant of a state separated to God in Mr. Bs. sense by Covenant promising it to believers that their infants should be visible Church-members For this holinesse was a state of difference or separation onely by legal descent from Israel not by the faith of next parents and it did intitle them to a peculiar priviledge of being reckoned in the genealogy of Israel or in full communion with the Common-wealth of Israel in respect of inheritance marriage c. though they fell to Idolatry as Jeroboam Ahaz Manasseh c. did But proselytes though believers were not the holy seed there meant they were not forbidden to marry the daughters of the people of the land Yea the children of the holy seed begotten upon prohibited women as the daughters of the Nations there mentioned were with their mothers to be put away as unholy according to the law Ezra 10. 3. contrary to the resolution af the Apostle 1 Cor. 7. 12 13 14. which evidently shewes that the Jewes are called the holy seed by their descent according to the law of Moses and that the term holy seed Ezra 10. 2. is all one with Legitimate and if the Apostle did allude to that place in Ezra it serves more for my sense then Mr. Bs. and the sense may be conceived this If the unbelieving husband were not as sanctified to his wife so as that they might lawfully live together then the children should be unclean that is illegitimate as those in Ezra but now that is it being determined that the law of Moses concerning prohibiting marriage with some people is voided and unequal marriage is not dissolved your children are holy that is legitimate His evasion page 188. about a judgement of charity will be found insufficient to avoid my exception against his exposition which is mistaken by him nor will it at all smite me my exception being not as he imagines that upon a judgement of charity concerning the sincerity of a persons profession he is not to be taken for a real believer But that Mr. B. determining that the unbeliever is sanctified onely to the believer who is not onely such according to the judgement of charity but also really such before God and the Apostles consequence including this Proposition according to his exposition that the children of such onely are holy that is after Mr. B. visible Church-members and baptizable of necessity all other by his exposition are prohibited to be baptized and therefore of necessity he that will follow the rule according to Mr. Bs exposition must know the reality of the parents faith which being impossible to be known without special revelation he may baptize none without it Now Mr. B. answers not at all to the main thing how by his exposition a man can go upon certainty that he doth his duty but how without respect to his exposition a man may take a person for a sincere believer and so baptize him But this serves not his turne in this case For it is the duty of the baptizer to baptize onely visible Church-members this Mr. B. will not deny now of infants who can make no profession their visible Church-membership is known onely by their parents believing but according to Mr. Bs. exposition of the Apostle those infants onely are visible Church-members whose parents are real believers before God no hypocrite if Mr. B. rightly expound the Apostle