but his Trial and Execution were deferred a long time till January 10. 1643. for the entertainment of the Scots that were come into England to aid the Parliament B. Why did the Scots think there was so much danger in the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury he was not a Man of War nor a Man able to bring an Army into the Field but he was perhaps a very great Politician A. That did not appear by any remarkable events of his Councils I never heard but he was a very honest man for his Morals and a very zealous promoter of the Church Government by Bishops and that he desired to have the Service of God performed and the House of God adorned as suitably as was possible to the honour we ought to do to the Divine Majesty But to bring as he did into the State his Former Controversies I mean his squablings in the University about Free Will and his standing upon Punctilio's concerning the Service-Book and its Rubricks was not in my opinion an Argument of his sufficiency in Affairs of State About the same time they passed an Act which the King consented to for a Triennial Parliament wherein was Enacted That after the present Parliament there should be a Parliament call'd by the King within the space of three years and so from three years to three years to meet at Westminster upon a certain day named in the Act. B. But what if the King did not call it finding it perhaps inconvenient or Hurtfull to to the Safety or Peace of his People which God hath put into his Charge for I do not well comprehend how any Soveraign can well keep a People in order when his hands are tiâ—d or when he hath any other Obligation upon him than the benefit of those he Governs And at this time for any thing you told me they acknowledged the King for their Sovereign A. I know not but such was the Act And it was farther Enacted That if the King did it not by his own Command then the Lord Chancellour or the Lord Keeper for the time being should send out the Writs of Summons And if the Chancellour refused then the Sheriffs of the several Counties of themselves at the next County Courts before the day set down for the Parliaments meeting should proceed to the Election of the Members for the said Parliament B. But what if the Sheriffs refused A. I think they were to be sworn to it but for that and other particulars I refer you to the Act. B. To whom should they be sworn when there is no Parliament A. No doubt but to the King whether there be a Parliament sitting or no. B. Then the K. may Release them of their Oath A. Besides They obtained of the King the putting down the Star Chamber and the High Commission Courts B. Besides If the King upon the refusal should fall upon them in Anger Who shall the Parliament not sitting Protect either the Chancellor or the Sheriffs in their Disobedience A. I pray you do not ask me any Reason of such things I understand no better than you I tell you only an Act passed to that purpose and was Sâ—gned by the King in the middle of February a little before the Arch Bishop was sent to the Tower Besides this Bill the two Houses of Parliament agreed upon another wherein it was Enacted That the present Parliament would continue till both the Houses did consent to the Dissolution of it which Bill also the King Signed the same day he Signed the Warrant for the Execution of the Earl of Strafford B. What a great Progress made the Parliament towards the ends of the most seditious Members of both Houses in so little time They sat down in November and now it was May in this space of time which is but half a year they won from the King the Adhearance which was due to him from his People they drove his faithfullest Servants from him beheaded the Earl of Strafford Imprisoned the Arch Bishop of Canterbury obtained a Triennial Parliament after their Own dissolution and a continuance of their own sitting as long as they listed which last a mounted to a total extinction of the Kings right in case that such a grant were vaild which I think it is not unless the soveraignty it self be in plain termes renounced which it was not but what money by way of subsidue or otherwise did they grant the King in recompence of all these his large concessions A. None at all but often promised they would make him the most glorious King that ever was in England which were words that passed well enough for wel meaning with the common People B. But the Parliament was contented now for I cannot imagine what they should desire more from the King than he had now granted them A Yes they desired the whole and absolute soveraignty and to change the Monarchical government into an Oligarchie that is to say to make the Parliament consisting of a few Lords and about 400 Commoners absolute in the soveraignty for the present and shortly after to lay the house of Lords aside for this was the design of the Presbyterian Ministers who taking themselves to be by Divine right the onely Lawful governers of the Church endeavoured to bring the same form of Government into the Civil state and as the spiritual Laws were to be made by their Synods so their Civil Laws should be made by the House of Commons who as they thought would no less be ruled by them afterwards than formerly they had been wherein they were deceived and found themselves out gon by their own Disciples though not in malice yet in Wit B. What followed after this A. In August following the King supposing he had now sufficiently obliged the Parliament to proceed no farther against him took a journey into Scotland to satisfy his Subjects there as he had done here intending perhaps so to gain their good wills that in case the Parliament here should levy Armes against him they should not be aided by the Scots wherein he also was deceived for though they seemed satisfied with what he did whereof one thing was his giveing away to the Aâ—olction of Episcopacy Yet afterwards they made a League with the Parliament and for money when the King began to have the better of the Parliament invaded England in the Parliaments Quarrel but this was a Year or two after B. Before you go any farther I desire to know the ground and Original of that Right which either the House of Lords or House of Commons or both together pretend to A. It is a question of things so long past that they are now forgotten nor have we any thing to conjecture by but the Records of our own Nation and some small and obscure fragments of Roman Histories And for the Records seeing they are of things only done sometimes justly sometimes unjustly you can never by them know what Right they had but only what right they pretended B.
generally hated the Rump and might easily be reckoned for 20000 well armed Souldiers and most men believed they would have taken his part had he come near the City B. What probability was there of that Do you think the Rump was not sure of the service of the Mayor and those that Commanded the City Militia And if they had been really the Kings Friends what need had they to stay his coming up to London They might have seiz'd the Rump if they had pleas'd which had no possibility of defending themselves at least they might have turn'd them out of the House A. This they did not but on the contrary permitted the recruiting of Cromwel's Army and the raising of men to keep the Country from coming in to the King The King began his march from Sterling the last of July and Aug. 22. came to Worcester by the way of Carlisle with a weary Army of about 13000 whom Cromwel followed and joining with the new Levies environ'd Worcester with 40000 and on the third of September utterly defeated the Kings Army Here Duke Hamilton brother of him that was beheaded was slain B. What became of the King A. Night coming on before the City was quite taken he left it being dark and none of the Enemies Horse within the Town to follow him the plundering Foot having kept the Gates shut lest the Horse should enter and have a share of the Booty The King before morning got into Warwickshire 25 Miles from Worcester and there lay disguised a while and afterwards went up and down in great danger of being discovered till at last he got over into France from Brighthempstead in Sussex B. When Cromwel was gone what was farther done in Scotland A. Lieutenant Gen. Monk whom Cromwel left there with 7000 took Sterling August the 14th by surrender and Dundee the third of September by Storm because it resisted this the Souldiers plundered and had good booty because the Scots for safety had sent thither their most precious Goods from Edinburrough and St. Johnston's he took likewise by surrender Aberdeen and the place where the Scotish Ministers first learn'd to play the Fools St. Andrews Also in the Highlands Colonel Alured took a knot of Lords and Gentlemen viz. four Earls and four Lords and above twenty Knights and Gentlemen whom he sent Prisoners into England so that there was nothing more to be fear'd from Scotland all the trouble of the Rump was to resolve what they should do with it at last they resolv'd to Unite and Incorporate it into a Common-wealth with England and Ireland and to that end sent thither St. Johns Vane and other Commissioners to offer them this Union by publique Declaration and to warn them to chuse their Deputies of Shires and Burgesses of Towns and send them to Westminster B. This was a great favour A. I think so and yet it was by many of the Scots especially by the Ministers and other Presbyterians refused the Ministers had given way to the Levying of Mony for the payment of the English Souldiers but to comply with the Declaration of English Commissioners they absolutely forbad B. Methinks this Contributing to the Pay of their Conquerors was some mark of Servitude where entring into the Union made them Free and gave them equal Priviledge with the English A. The cause why they refused the Union rendered by the Presbyterians themselves was this That it drew with it a subordination of the Church to the Civil State in the things of Christ. B. This is a down-right Declaration to all Kings and Common-wealths in general that a Presbyterian Minister will be a true Subject to none of them in the things of Christ which things what they are they will be Judges themselves what then have we gotten by our Deliverance from the Popes Tyranny if these pretty Men succeed in the place of it that have nothing in them that can be beneficial to the Publique except their silence for their Learning it amounts to no more than an imperfect knowledge of Greek and Latin and acquired readiness in the Scripture Language with a Gesture and Tone suitable thereunto but of Justice and Charity the Manners of Religion they have neither Knowledge nor Practice as is manifest by the Stories I have already told you nor do they distinguish between the Godly and Ungodly but by Conformity of Design in Men of Judgment or by Repetition of their Sermons in the Common sort of People A. But this fullenness of the Scots was to no purpose for they at Westminster Enacted the Union of the two Nations and the Abolition of Monarchy in Scotland and ordained Punishment for those that should transgress the Act. B. What other business did the Rump this year A. They sent St. Johns and Strickland Ambassadors to the Hague to offer League to the United Provinces who had Audience March the third St. Johns in a Speech shewed those States what advantage they might have by this League in their Trade and Navigations by the use of the English Ports and Harbors the Dutch though they shewed no great forwardness in the business yet appointed Commissioners to Treat with them about it but the People were generally against it calling the Ambassadors and their Followers as they were Traytors and Murderers and made such Tumults about their House that their Followers durst not go abroad till the States had quieted them the Rump advertis'd hereof presently recall'd them the Complement which St. Johns gave to the Commissioners at their taking leave is worth your hearing You have said he an Eye upon the Event of the Affairs of Scotland and therefore do refuse the Friendship we have offered now I can assure you many in the Parliament were of Opinion that we should not have sent any Ambassadors to you till we had expected your Ambassadors to us I now perceive our Error and that those Gentlemen were in the right In a short time you shall see that Business ended when it shall perplex you that you have refus'd our Proffer B. S. Johns was not sure that the Scotish business would end as it did for though the Scots were beaten at Dunbar he could not be sure of the Event of their entering of England which happened afterward A. But he guess'd well for within a Month after the Battel at Worcester an Act passed forbidding the importing of Merchandize in other than English Ships The English also molested their Fishing upon our Coast They also many times searched their Ships upon occasion of our War with France and made some of them Prize and then the Dutch sent their Ambassadours hither to desire what they before refus'd but partly also to inform themselves what Naval Forces the English had ready and how the people were contented with the Government B. How sped they A. The Rump shewed now as little desire of Agreement as the Dutch did then standing upon terms never likely to be granted First For the Fishing on the English Coast that they
or Ministers or Assemblies that Govern the Church under him or them that have the Soveraign Power B. Some doubts may be raised from this that you now say for if men be to learn their Duty from the sentence which other men shall give concerning the meaning of the Scriptures and not from their own Interpretation I understand not to what end they were Translated into English and every man not only permitted but also exhorted to read them for what could that produce but diversity of Opinion and consequently as man's nature is Disputation breach of Charity Disobedience and at last Rebellion Again since the Scriptures were allowed to be read in English why were not the Translations such as might make all that 's read understood even by mean Capacities Did not the Jews such as could read understand their Law in the Jewish Language as well as we do our Statute Laws in English and as for such places of the Scripture as had nothing of the Nature of a Law it was nothing to the Duty of the Jews whether they were understood or not seeing nothing is punishable but the Transgression of some Law The same question I may ask concerning the New Testament for I believe that those Men to whom the Original Language was natural did understand sufficiently what Commands and Counsels were given them by our Saviour and his Apostles and his immediate Disciples Again how will you answer that question which was put by St. Peter and St. John Acts 4. 1◠when b◠Ananias the High-Priest and others of the Council of Jerusalem they were forbidden any more to teach in the name of Jesus whether is it right in the sight of God to hearken to you more than unto God A. The Case is not the same Peter and John had seen and daily conversed with our Saviour and by the Miracles he wrote did know he was God and consequently knew certainly 〈◊〉 their Disobedience to the High Priests present command was just Can any Minister now say that he hath immediately from God's own Mouth received a Command to disobey the King or know otherwise than by the Scripture that any Command of the King that hath the form and nature of a Law is against the Law of God which in divers places he directly and evidently Commandeth to obey him in all things The Text you cite doth not tell us that a Minister's Authority rather than a Christian King 's shall decide the questions that arise from the different Interpretations of the Scripture And therefore where the King is head of the Church and by consequence to omit that the Scripture it self was not receieved but by the Authority of Kings and States chief Judge of the Rectitude of all Interpretations of the Scripture to obey the King's Laws and publick Edicts is not to disobey and obey God a Minister ought not to think that his Skill in the Latine Greek or Hebrew Tongues if he have any gives him a priviledge to impose upon all his Fellow-subjects his own sense or what he pretends to be his sense of every obscure place of Scripture nor ought he as often as he hath found some fine Interpretation not before thought on by others to think he had it by inspiration as fine as he thinks it is not false and then all his Stubornness and Contumacy towards the King and his Laws is nothing but Pride of heart and Ambition or else Imposture And whereas you think it needless or perhaps hurtful to have the Scriptures in English I am of another mind There are so many places of Scripture easily to be understood that teach both true Faith and good Morality and that as fully as is necessary to Salvation of which no Seducer is able to dispose the mind of any ordinary Readers that the Reading of them is so profitable as not to be forbidden without great Damage to them and the Commonwealth B. All that is required both in Faith and Manner 's for Man's Salvation is I confess set down in Scripture as plainly as can be Children Obey you◠Parents in all things Servants obey your Masters Let all men be subject to the Higher Powers whether it be the King or those that are sent by him Love God with all your Soul and your Neighbour as your self are words of the Scripture which are well enough understood but neither Children nor the greatest part of Men do understand why it is their Duty so to do they see not that the safety of the Commonwealth and consequently their own depends upon the doing of it Every man by Nature without Discipline does in all his Actions look upon as far as he can see the benefit that shall redound to himself by his Obedience he Reads that Covetousness is the Root of all Evil but he thinks and sometimes finds it is the Root of his Estate And so in other Cases the Scripture says one thing and they think another weighing the Commodities or Incommodities of this present Life only which are in their sight never putting into the Scales the Good and Evil of the Life to come which they see not A. All this is no more than happens where the Scripture is sealed up in Greek and Latine and the People taught the same things out of them by Preachers but they that are of a Condition and Age fit to examine the sence of what they read and that take a delight in searching out the Grounds of their Duty certainly cannot chuse but by reading of the Scriptures come to such a sense of their Duty as not only to obey the Laws themselves but also to induce others to do the same for commonly Men of Age and quality are followed by their inferiour Neighbours that look more upon the example of those Men whom they Reverence and whom they are unwilling to displease then upon precepts and Laws B. These men of the condition and Age you speak of are in my opinion the unfittest of all others to be trusted with the reading of the Scriptures I know you mean such as have studied the Greek or Latin or both Tongues and that are withal such as love knowledge and consequently take delight in finding out the meaning of the most hard Texts or in thinking they have found it in case it be new and not found out by others these are therefore they that pretermitting the easiy places that teach them their Duty fall to scanning only the Mysteries of Religion Such as are how it may be made out with wit that there be three that bear Rule in Heaven and those three but one how the Deity could be made flesh how that flesh could be really present in many places at once where 's the place and what the Torments of Hell and other Metaphysical Doctrines whether the Will of Man be free or govern'd by the Will of God whether Sanctity comes by inspiration or Education by whom Christ now speaks to us whether by the King or by the Bible to
every Man that reads it and interprets it to himself or by a private Spirit to every private Man These and the like points are the study of the curious and the cause of all our late mischief and the cause that makes the plainer sort of men whom the Scriptures had taught belief in Christ love towards God obedience towards the King and sobriety of Behaviour forget it all and place their Religion in the Disputable Doctrines of these your wise Men. A. I do not think these men fit to interpret the Scriptures to the rest nor do I say that the rest ought to take their interpretation for the word of God Whatsoever is necessary for them to know more does them no good but in case any of these unnecessary Doctrines shall be Authorized by the Laws of the King or other state I say it is the duty of every Subject not to speak against them in asmuch as 't is every Mans Duty to obey him or them that have the Sovereign power and the wisdom of all such powers to punish such as shall publish or teach their private Interpretations when they are contrary to the Law and likely to incline men to sedition or disputing against the Law B. They must punish then the most of those that have had there breeding in the Universities for such curious questions in Divinity are first started in the Universities and so are all those politick questions concerning the Rights of Civil and Ecclesiastical Government and there they are furnished with arguments for liberty out of the works of Aristotle Plato Câ—cero Seâ—ica and 〈◊〉 of the Histories of 〈…〉 for their disputation against the 〈…〉 power of their 〈…〉 therefore I dispare of any 〈…〉 our selves till the 〈…〉 their studies to the 〈…〉 obedience to the Laws of the 〈…〉 to his publick Edicts under the great Seal of England for I make no doubt but that solid reason backt with the Authority of so many learned men will more prevail for the keeping of us in peace within our selves than any victory can do over the Rebells but I am afraid 't is unpossible to bring the Universities to such a compliance with the Actions of state as is necessary for the Business seeing the Universities have heretofore from time to time maintain'd the Authority of the Pope contrary to all Laws Divine Civil and Natural against the Right of our Kings why can they not as well when they have all manner of Laws and Equity on their side maintain the Rights of him that is both sovereign of the Kingdom and Head of the Church B. Why then were they not in all points for the Kings power presently after that King Henry the 8. was in Parliament declared Head of the Church as much as they were before for the Authority of the Pope A. Because the Clergy in the Universities by whom all things there are Govern'd and the Clergy without the Universities as well Bishops as inferiour Clerks did think that the pulling down of the Pope was the setting up of them as to England in his place and made no question the greatest part of them but that their spiritual power did depend not upon the Authority of the King but of Christ himself derived to them by successible Imposition of hands from Bishop to Bishop notwithstanding they knew that this derivation passed through the hands of Popes Bishops whose Authority they had cast off for though they were content that the Divine right which the Pope pretended to in England should be denied him yet they thought it not so fit to be taken from the Church of England whom they now supposed themselves to represent It seems they did not think it reasonable that a Woman or a Child or a Man that could not construe the Hebrew Greek or Latin Bible nor know perhaps the declensions and Conjugations of Greek or Latin Nounes and Verbs should take upon him to govern so many learned Doctors in matters of Religion meaning matters of Divinity for Religion has been for a long time and is now by most people taken for the same thing with Divinity to the great advantage of the Clergie B. And especially now amongst the Presbyterians for I see few that are esteemed by them very good Christians besides such as can repeat their Sermons and wrangle for them about the Interpretation of the Scripture and fight for them also with their Bodies or purses when they shal be required to believe in Christ is nothing with them unless you believe as they bid you Charity is nothing with them unless it be Charity and liberality to them and partaking with them in faction How we can have peace while this is our Religion I cannot tell Haeret Laterilethalis arundo The seditious Doctrine of the Presbyterians hath been stuck so hard in the Peoples heads and memories I cannot say into their hearts for they understood nothing in it but that they may lawfully rebel That I fear the Common-wealth will never be cured A. The 2 Great vertues that were severally in Henry the 7. Henry the 8. When they shall be Joyntly in one King will easily cure it that of Henry the 7 was without much noise of the people to â—ill his Coffers that of Henry the 8 was an early severity but this without the former cannot be exercised B. This that you say looks me thinks like an advice to the King to let them alone till he have gotten ready money enough to levy and maintain a sufficient Army and then to fall on them and destroy them A. God forbid that so horrible Unchirstian and unhuman design should ever enter into the Kings heart I would have him have money enough readily to raise an Army able to suppress any Rebellion and to take from the Enemies all hope of success that they may not dare to trouble him in the Reformation of the Universities but to put none to death without the Aâ—tual committing such crimes as are already made Capital by the Laws the Core of Rebellion as you have seen by this and read of other Rebellions are the Universities which nevertheless are not to be cast away but to be better disciplin'd that is to say that the Politicks there taught be made to be as true poliâ—icks should be such as are fit to make men know that it is their duty to obey aâ— Laws whatsoever that shall be by the Authority of the King enacted till by the same Authority they shall be repeal'd suâ—â— as are fit to make Men understand that the Civil Laws are Gods Laws as they that make them to make Men know that the people and the Church are one thing and have but one Head the â—ing and that no Man has Title to Govern under him that has it not from him that the King owes his Crown to God onlâ— and to no Man Ecclesiastick or other and that the Religion they teach there be a quiet waiting â—or the coming again of our blessed Saviour and
have heard I believe how great a Darling of the people his Father had been before him and what Honour he had gotten by the success of his Enterprize upon Cales and in some other Military actions To which I may add That this Earl himself was not held by the People to be so great a Favourite at Court as that they might not trust him with their Army against the King and by this you may perhaps conjecture the cause for which the Parliament made choice of him for General B. But why did they think him discontented with the Court A. I know not that nor indeed that he was so he came to Court as other Noblemen did when occasion was to wait upon the King but had no Office till a little before this time to oblige him to be there continually but I believe verily that the unfortunateness of his Marriage had so discountenanced his Conversation with Ladies that the Court could be his proper Element unless he had had some extraordinary savour there to balance that calamity for particular discontent from the King or intention of revenge for any supposed disgrace I think he had none nor that he was any wayes addicted to Presbyterian Doctrines or other Fanatick Tenets in Church or State saving only that he was carried away with the stream in a manner of the whole Nation to think that England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy not considering that the Supreme Power must alwayes be absolute whether it be in the King or in the Parliament B. Who was General of the Kings Army A. None yet but Himself nor indeed had He yet any Army but there coming to him at that time two Nephews the Princes Rupert and Maurice He put the Command of His Horse into the hands of Prince Rupert a Man then whom no man living has a better courage nor was more active and diligent in prosecuting his Commission and though but a young Man then was not without experience in the conducting of Soldiers as having been an Actor in part of his Fathers Wars in Germany B. But how would the King find money to pay such an Army as was necessary for Him against the Parliament A. Neither the King nor Parliament had much money at that time in their own hands but were fain to relie upon the Benevolence of those that took their parts wherein I confess the Parliament had a mighty great advantage those that helped the King in that kind were only Lords and Gentlemen which not approving the proceedings of the Parliament were willing to undertake the payment every one of a certain number of Horse which cannot be thought any very great assistance the persons that payed them being so few for other Monies that the King then had I have not heard of any but what he borrow'd upon Jewels in the Low-Countries whereas the Parliament had a very plentiful Contribution not only from London but generally from their Faction in all other places of England upon certain Propositions published by the Lords and Commons in June 1642. at which time they had newly Voted That the King intended to make War upon them for bringing in of Money or Plate to maintain Horse and Horsemen and to buy Arms for the preservation of the Publick Peace and for the defence of the King and both Houses of Parliament for the Re-payment of which Money and Plate they were to have the Publick Faith B. What Publick Faith is there when there is no Publick What is it that can be call'd Publick in a Civil War without the King A. The Truth is the Security was nothing worth but serv'd well enough to gull those seditious Blockheads that were more fond of change than either of their peace or profit having by this means gotten Contributions from those that were the well-affected to their Cause they made use of it afterwards to force the like Contribution from others for in November following they made an Ordinance for Assessing also of those that had not Contributed then or had Contributed but not proportionably to their Estates And yet this was contrary to what the Parliâ—ment promised and declar'd in the Propositions themselves for they declar'd in the first Proposition That no mans Affection should be measured by the prâ—portion of his Offer so that he expressed his good will to the Service in any proportion whatsoever Besides this in the beginning of March following they made an Ordinance to Levy weekly a great Sum of money upon every County City Town Place and Person of any Estate almost in England which weekly Sum as may appear by the Ordinance it self printed and published in March 1642 by Order of both Houses comes to almost 33000 l. and consequently to above 1700000 l. for the year They had besides all this the Profits of the King's Lands and Woods and whatsoever was remaining unpaid of any Subsidy formerly granted Him and the Tunnage and Poundage usually received by the King besides the profit of the Sequestration of great persons whom they pleas'd to vote Delinquents and the profits of the Bishops Lands which they took to themselves a year or a little more after B. Seeing then the Parliament had such advantage of the King in Money Arms and multitude of Men and had in their hands the King's Fleet I cannot imagine what hope the King could have either of Victory unless He resign'd into their hands the Sovereignty or subsisting for I cannot well believe He had any advantage of them either in Councillors Conducts or in the Resolution of his Soldiers A. On the contrary I think He had also some disadvantage in that for though He had as good Officers at least as any then serv'd the Parliament yet I doubt He had not so useful Council as was necessary And for His Soldiers though they were Men as stout as theirs yet because their Valor was not sharpned so with Malice as theirs was of the other side they sought not so keenly as their Enemies did amongst whom there was a great many London Apprentices who for want of experience in the War would have been fearful enough of death and wounds approaching visibly in glittering Swords but for want of judgment scarce thought of such a death as comes invisibly in a Bullet and therefore were very hardly to be driven out of the Field B. But what fault do you find in the King's Councils Lords and other Persons of Quality and Experience A. Only that fault which was generally in the whole Nation which was That they thought the Government of England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy and that if the King should clearly subdue this Parliament that His power would be what He pleased and theirs as little as He pleased which they counted Tyranny This opinion though it did not lesâ—en their endeavors to gain the Victory for the King in a Battel when the Battel could not be avoided yet it weakned their endeavors to procure him an absolute
an Independent in England in Answer to it B. I have seen them both they are very good Latine both and hardly to be judged which is better and both very ill reasoning and hardly to be judged which is worst like two Declamations Pro and Con for exercise only in a Rhetorick School by one and the same man so like is a Presbyterian to an Independent A. In this year the Rump did not much at home save that in the beginning they made England a Free State by an Act which runs thus Be it Enacted and Declared by this present Parliament and by to Authority thereof That the People of England and all the Dominions and Territories thereunto belonging are and shall be and are hereby constituted made and declared a Common-wealth and Free State c. B. What did they mean by a Free State and Common-wealth were the people no longer to be subject to Laws They could not mean that for the Parliament meant to Govern them by their own Laws and punish such as broke them Did they mean that England should not be subject to any foreign Kingdom or Common-wealth That needed not be Enacted seeing there was no King nor People pretended to be their Masters What did they mean then A. They meant that neither this King nor any King nor any single person but only that they themselves would be the Peoples Masters and would have set it down in those plain words if the people could have been cozen'd with words intelligible as easily as with words not intelligible After this they gave one another Money and Estates out of the Lands and Goods of the Loyal Party They Enacted also an Engagement to be taken by every man in these words You shall promise to be true and faithful to the Common-wealth of England as it is now established without King or House of Lords They banished also from within 20 Miles of London all the loyal Party forbidding every one of them to depart more than five Miles from his dwelling-house B. They meant perhaps to have them ready if need were for a Massacre But what did the Scots in this time A. They were considering of the Officers of the Army which they were levying for the King how they might exclude from Command all such as had loyally serv'd his now Majesty's Father and all Independents and all such as commanded in Duke Hamilton's Army And these were the main things that passed this year The Marquess of Montross that had in the year 1645. with a few men and in a little time done things almost incredible against the late King's Enemies in Scotland landed now again in the beginning of the Year 1650. in the North of Scotland with Commission from the present King hoping to do him as good service as he had formerly done his Father but the case was alter'd for the Scotch Forces were then in England in the service of the Parliament whereas now they were in Scotland and many more for their intended Invasion newly rais'd Besides the Souldiers which the Marquess brought over were few and Forreigners nor did the High-landers come in to him as he expected insomuch as he was soon defeated and shortly after taken and with more spiteful usage than revenge requir'd Executed by the Covenanters at Edinborough May the 2d B. What good could the King expect from joyning with these men who during the Treaty discover'd so much malice to him in one of his best Subjects A. No doubt their Church-men being then prevalent they would have done as much to this King as the English Parliament had done to his Father if they could have gotten by it that which they foolishly aspir'd to the Government of the Nation I do not believe that the Independents were worse than the Presbyterians both the one and the other were resolv'd to destroy whatsoever should stand in the way to their Ambition but necessity made the King pass over both this and many other Indignities from them rather than suffer the pursuit of his Right in England to cool and be little better than extinguished B. Indeed I believe the Kingdom if suffered to become an old Debt will hardly ever be recover'd Besides the King was sure where ever the Victory lighted he could lose nothing in the War but Enemies A. About the time of Montrosses death which was in May Cromwel was yet in Ireland and his work unfinished but finding or by his Friends advertis'd that his presence in the Expedition now preparing against the Scots would be necessary to his Design sent to the Rump to know their pleasure concerning his return But for all that he knew or thought it was not necessary to stay for their Answer but came away and arriv'd at London the sixth of June following and was welcom'd by the Rump Now had General Fairfax who was truly what he pretended to be a Presbyterian been so Catechis'd by the Presbyterian Ministers here that he refus'd to fight against the Brethren in Scotland nor did the Rump nor Cromwel go about to rectifie his Conscience in that point And thus Fairfax laying down his Commission Cromwel was now made General of all the Forces in England and Ireland which was another step to the Soveraign Power B. Where was the King A. In Scotland newly come over he landed in the North and was honourably conducted to Edinborough though all things was not yet well agreed upon between the Scots and him for he had yielded to as hard Conditions as the late King had yielded to in the Isle of Wight yet they had still somewhat to add till the King enduring no more departed from them towards the North again But they sent Messengers after him to pray him to return but they furnished these Messengers with strength enough to bring him back if he should have refus'd In fine they agreed but would not suffer the King or any Royalist to have Command in the Army B. The sum of all is the King was their Prisoner A. Cromwel from Berwick sends a Declaration to the Scots telling them he had no Quarrel against the people of Scotland but against the Malignant Party that had brought in the King to the disturbance of the Peace between the two Nations and that he was willing by Conference to give and receive satisfaction or to decide the Justice of the Cause by Battel To which the Scots answering declare That they will not prosecute the Kings Interest before and without his acknowledgment of the sins of his House and his former ways and satisfaction given to Gods people in both Kingdoms Judge by this whether the present King were not in as bad a condition here as his Father was in the hands of the Presbyterians of England B. Presbyterians are every where the same they would fain be absolute Governours of all they converse with and have nothing to plead for it but that where they reign 't is God that reigns and no where else But I observe one strange