they desired the whole and absolute soveraignty and to change the Monarchical Government into an Oligarchie that is to say to make the Parliament consisting of a few Lords and about 400 Commoners absolute in the soveraignty for the present and shortly after to lay the House of Lords aside for this was the Design of the Presbyterian Ministers who taking themselves to be by right the onely Lawful Government of the Church endeavoured to bring the same Form of Government into the Civil state and as the Spiritual Laws were to be made by their Synods so their Civil Laws should be made by the House of Commons who as they thought would no less be ruled by them afterwards than formerly they had been wherein they were deceived and found themselves out-gon by their own Disciples though not in Malice yet in Wit B. What followed after this A. In August following the King supposing he had now sufficiently obliged the Parliament to proceed no farther against him took a Journey into Scotland to satisfie his Subjects there as he had done here intending perhaps so to gain their good wills that in case the Parliament here should levy Arms against him they should not be aided by the Scots wherein he also was deceived for though they seemed satisfied with what he did whereof one thing was his giving away to the Aboletion of Episcopacy Yet afterwards they made a League with the Parliament and for Money when the King began to have the better of the Parliament invaded England in the Parliaments Quarrel but this was a Year or two after B. Before you go any farther I desire to know the Ground and Original of that Right which either the House of Lords or House of Commons or both together pretend to A. It is a question of things so long past that they are now forgotten nor have we any thing to conjecture by but the Records of our own Nation and some small and obscure fragments of Roman Histories And for the Records seeing they are of things only done sometimes justly sometimes unjustly you can never by them know what Right they had but only what Right they pretended B. Howsoever let me know what light we have in this matter from the Roman Histories A. It would be too long and an useless digression to â—â—â—all the Antient Authors that speak of the forms of those Common-wealths which were amongst our first Ancestors the Saxons and other Germans and of other Nations from whom we derive the Titles of Honour now in use in England nor will it be possible to derive from them any Arguments of Right but only Examples of fact which by the Ambition of Potent Subjects have been oftener unjust than otherwise and for those Saxons or Angles that in Antient times by several Invasions made themselves Masters of this Nation they were not in themselves one Body of Common-wealth but only a League of divers Petty German Lords and States such as was the Graecian Army in the Trojan War without other Obligations than that which proceeded from their own fear and weakness nor were these Lords for the most part the Soveraigns at home in their own Country but chosen by the people for the Captains of the Forces they brought with them And therefore it was not without Equity that when they had conquer'd any part of the Land and made some one of them King thereof the rest should have greater Priviledges than the common People and Soldiers amongst which Priviledges a man may easily conjecture this to be one that they should be made acquainted and be of Council with him that hath the Soveraignty in matters of Government and have the greatest and most honourable Offices both in Peace and War But because there can be no Government where there is more than one Soveraign it cannot be inferr'd that he had a Right to oppose the King's Resolutions by force nor to enjoy those honours and places longer than they should continue good Subjects And we find that the Kings of England did upon every great occasion call them together by the name of Discreet and Wise men of the Kingdom and hear their Councils and make them Judges of all Causes that during their Sitting were brought before them But as he summon'd them at his own pleasure so had he also ever at his pleasure power to Dissolve them The Normans also that descended from the Germans as we did had the same Customs in this particular and by this means this Priviledge have the Lords to be of your King 's great Council and when they were assembled to be the highest of the King's Court of Justice continued still after the Conquest to this day But though there be amongst the Lords divers Names or Titles of Honour yet they have their Priviledge by the only name of Baron a name receiv'd from the Antient Gauls amongst whom that name signified the King's man or rather one of his great men By which it seems to me that though they gave him Council when he requir'd it yet they had no Right to make War upon him if he did not follow it B. When began first the House of Commons to be part oâ— the King 's great Council A. I do not doubt but that before the Conquest some discreet men and known to be so by the King were called by special Writ to be of the same Council though they were not Lords But that is nothing to the House of Commons the Knights of â—lares and Burgesses were never called to Parliament for ought that I know till the beginning of Edward the first or the latter end of the Reign 〈◊〉 Henry the third immediately after the mis-behaviour of the Barons and for ought any man knows were called on purpose to weaken that Power of the Lords which they had so freshly abused Before the time of Henry the third the Lords were deâ—â—oâ—â—ed most of them from such as in the Invasions and Conquests of the Germans were Peers and â—ellow-Kings 'till one was made King of them â—â—ll and their Tenants were their Subjects as it is at this day with the Lords of France But after the time of Henry the third the Kings began to make Lords in the place of them whose Issue fail'd Titularly only without the Lands belonging to their Title and by that means their Tenants being bound no longer to Terve them in the Wars they grew every day less and less able to make a Party against the King though they continued still to be his great Council And as their Power decreased To the Power of the House of Commons increased But I do not find that they were part of the King's Council at all nor Judges over other men though it cannot be denied but a King may ask their advice as well as the advice of any other But I do not find that the end of their summoning was to give advice but only in case they had any Petitions for Redress of Grievances to be ready there
Storm because it resisted this the Soldiers plundered and had good booty because the Scots for safety had sent thither their most precious Goods from Edinborrough and St. Johnston's he took likewise by surrender Aberdeen and the place where the Scotish Ministers first learned to play the Fools St. Andrews Also in the Highlands Colonel Alured took a knot of Lords and Gentlemen viz. four Earls and four Lords and above twenty Knights and Gentlemen whom he sent Prisoners into England so that there was nothing more to be feared from Scotland all the trouble of the Rump was to resolve what they should do with it at last they resolved to Unite and Incorporate it into a Common-wealth with England and Ireland and to that end sent thither St. Johns Vane and other Commissioners to offer them this Union by publick Declaration and to warn them to chuse their Deputies of Shires and Burgesses of Towns and send them to Westminster B. This was a great favour A. I think so and yet it was by many of the Scots especially by the Ministers and other Presbyterians refused the Ministers had given way to the Levying of Money for the payment of the English Soldiers but to comply with the Declaration of English Commissioners they absolutely forbad B. Methinks this contributing to the pay of their Conquerors was some mark of Servitude where entring into the Union made them free and gave them equal Priviledge with the English A. The cause why they refused the Union rendered by the Presbyterians themselves was this That it drew with it a subordination of the Church to the Civil State in the things of Christ B. This is a down-right Declaration to all Kings and Common-wealths in general that a Presbyterian Minister will be a true Subject to none of them in the things of Christ which things what they are they will be Judges themselves what then have we gotten by our Deliverance from the Popes Tyranny if these pretty men succeed in the place of it that having nothing in them that can be beneficial to the Publick except their silence for their Learning it amounts to no more than an imperfect knowledge of Greek and Latin and acquir'd readiness in the Scripture Language with a Gesture and Tone suitable thereunto but of Justice and Charity the manners of Religion they have neither knowledge nor practice as is manifest by the Stories I have already told you nor do they distinguish between the Godly and Ungodly but by Conformity of Design in men of Judgment or by Repetition of their Sermons in the Common sort of people A. But this sullenness of the Scots was to no purpose for they at Westminster Enacted the Union of the two Nations and the Abolition of Monarchy in Scotland and ordained Punishment for those that should transgress the Act. B. What other business did the Rump this year A. They sent St Johns and Strickland Ambassadors to the to Hague to offer League to the Vnited Provinces who had Audiance March the third St. Johns in a Speech shewed those States what advantage they might have by this League in their Trade and Navigations by the use of the English Ports and Harbors the Dutch though they shewed no great forwardness in the business yet appointed Commissioners to treat with them about it but the people were generally against it calling the Ambassadors and their Followers as they were Traytors and Murderers and made such Tumults about their House that their Followers durst not go abroad till the â—tates had quieted them the Rump advertis'd hereof presently recall'd them the Complement which St. Johns gave to the Commissioners at their taking leave is worth your hearing You have said he an Eye upon the Event of the Affairs of Scotland and therefore do refuse the Friendship we have offered now I can assure you many in the Parliament were of Opinion that we should not have sent any Ambassadors to you till we expected your Ambassadors to us I now perceive our Error and that those Gentlemen were in the right In a short time you shall see that business ended when it shall perplex you that you have refus'd our proffer B. S. Johns was not sure that the Scotish business would end as it did for though the Scots were beaten at Dunbar he could not be sure of the Event of their entering of England which happened afterward A. But he guess'd well for within a Month after the Battel at Worcester an Act passed forbidding the importing of Merchandize in other than English Ships The English also molested their Fishing upon our Coast They also many times searched their Ships upon occasion of our War with France and made some of them Prize and then the Dutch sent their Ambassadors hither to desire what they before refus'd but partly also to inform themselves what Naval Forces the English had ready and how the people were contented with the Government B. How sped they A. The Rump shewed now as little desire of Agreement as the Dutch did then standing upon terms never likely to be granted First For the Fishing on the English Coast that they should not have it without paying for it Secondly That the English should have free Trade form Middleburgh to Antwerp as they had before their Rebellion against the King of Spain Thirdly They demanded amends for the old but never-to-be-forgotten business of Amboyna so that the War was already certain though the Season kept them from Action till the Spring following The true Quarrel on the English part was that their proffer'd Friendship was scorn'd and their Ambassadours affronted On the Dutch part was their greediness to ingross all Traffick and a false Estimate of our and their own strength Whilst these things were doing the Reliques of the War both in Ireland and Scotland were not neglected though these Nations were not fully pacified till two years after The Persecution of Royalits also still continued among whom was beheaded one M. Love for holding Correspondence with the King B. I had thought Presbyterian Ministers whilest they were such could not be Royalists because they think their Assembly have the Supreme Power in the things of Christ and by consequence they are in England by a Statute Traytors A. You may think so still for though I called Mr. Love a Royalist I meant it only for that one act for which he was condemned It was he who during the treaty at Vxbridge preaching before the Commissioners there said It was as possible for Heaven and Hell as for the King and Parliament to agree Both he and the rest of the Presbyterians are and were Enemies to the Kings Enemies Cromwel and his Phanaticks for their own not for the King's sake Their Loyalty was like that of Sir John Hotham that kept the King out of Hull and afterwards would have betrayed the same to the Marquess of New-castle These Presbyterians therefore cannot be rightly called Loyal but rather doubly perfidious unless you think that as two
B. Must Tyrants also be obeyed in every thing actively or is there nothing wherein a Lawful Kings commands may be disobeyed what if he should command me with my own hands to execute my Father in case he should be condemned to die by the Law A. This is a case that need not be put we never have read or heard of any King or Tyrant so inhumane as to command it if any did we are to consider whether that command were one of his Laws for by disobeying Kings we mean disobeying his Laws those his Laws that were made before they were applied to any particular person For the King though as a Father of Children and a Master of domestick Secrets yet commands the People in general never but by a precedent Law and as a Publick not a Natural Person and if such a Command as you speak of were contrived into a general Law which never was nor never will be you were bound to obey it unless you depart the Kingdom after the publication of the-Law and before the condemnation of your Father B. Your Author says farther in refusing active obedience to the King that commanded any thing contrary to God's Law we must be very well assured that the thing is so contrary I would fain know-how is it possible to be assured A. I think you do not believe that any of those Refusers do immediately from God's own mouth receive any Command contrary to the Command of the King who is God's Lieutenant nor any other way than you and I do that is to say than by the Scriptures And because men do for the most part rather draw the Scriptures to their own sense than follow the true sense of the Scripture there is no other way to know certainly and in all cases what God commands or forbids us to do but by the sentence of him or them that are constituted by the King to determine the sense of the Scriptures upon hearing of the particular Case of Conscience which is in question and they that are so constituted are easily known in all Christian Common-wealths whether they be Bishops or Ministers or Assemblies that govern the Church under him or them that have the Sovereign Power B. Some doubts may be raised from this that you now say for if men be to learn their Duty from the Sentence which other men shall give concerning the meaning of the Scriptures and not from their own Interpretation I understand not to what end they were Translated into English and every man not onely permitted but also exhorted to read them for what could that produce but diversity of Opinion and consequently as man's nature is Disputation breach of Charity Disobedience and at last Rebellion Again since the Scriptures were allowed to be read in English why were not the Translations such as might make all that 's read understood even by mean capacities Did not the Jews such as could read understand their Law in the Jewish Language as well as we do our Statute Laws in English And as for such places of the Scripture as had nothing of the Nature of a Law it was nothing to the Duty of the Jews whether they were understood or not seeing nothing is punishable but the transgression of some Law The same question I may ask concerning the New Testament for I believe that those men to whom the Original Language was natural did understand sufficiently what Commands and Counsels were given them by our Saviour and his Apostles and his immediate Disciples Again how will you answer that question which was put by St. Peter and St. John Acts 4.19 when by Ananias the High-priest and others of the Council of Jerusalem they were forbidden any more to teach in the Name of Jesus Whether is it right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God A. The case is not the same Peter and John had seen and daily conversed with our Saviour and by the Miracles he wrought did know he was God and consequently knew certainly that their disobedience to the High Priest's present command was just Can any Minister now say that he hath immediately from God's own mouth received a Command to disobey the King or know otherwise than by the Scripture that any Command of the King that hath the form and nature of a Law is against the Law of God which in divers places he directly and evidently commandeth to obey him in all things The Text you cite doth not tell us that a Minister's Authority rather than a Christian King's shall decide the questions that arise from the different Interpretations of the Scripture And therefore where the King is Head of the Church and by consequence to omit that the Scripture it self was not received but by the Authority of Kings and States chief Judge of the Rectitude of all Interpretations of the Scripture to obey the King's Laws and publick Edicts is not to disobey and obey God A Minister ought not to think that his skill in the Latin Greek or Hebrew Tongues if he have any gives him a triviledge to impose upon all his fellow-subjects his own sense or what he pretends to be his sense of every obscure place of Scripture nor ought he as often as he hath found some fine Interpretation not before thought on by others to think he had it by Inspiration as fine as he thinks it is not false and then all his stubbornness and contumacy towards the King and his Laws is nothing but pride of heart and ambâ—tion or else imposture And whereas you think it needless or perhaps hurtful to have the Scriptures in English I am of another mind There are so many places of Scripture easily to be understood that teach both true Faith and good Morality and that as fully as it is necessary to Salvation of which no Seducer is able to dispose the mind of any ordinary Readers that the reading of them is so profitable as not to be forbidden without great damage to them and the Common-wealth B. All that is required both in Faith and Manners for Man's Salvation is I confess set down in Scripture as plainly as can be Children obey your parents in all things Servants obey your masters in all things Let all men be subject to the higher powers whether it be the King or those that are sent by him Love God with all your soul and your neighbour as your self are words of the Scripture which are well enough understood but neither Children nor the greatest part of Men do understand why it is their duty so to do they see not that the safety of the Common-wealth and consequently their own depends upon the doing of it Every man by Nature without Discipline does in all his actions look upon as far as he can see the benefit that shall redound to himself by his obedience he reads that covetousness is the root of all evil but he thinks and sometimes finds it is the root of his Estate And
so in other cases the Scripture says one Scripture says one thing and they think another weâ—ghing the commodities or incommodities of this present life onely which are in their sight never putting into the scales the good and evil of the Life to come which they see not A. All his is no more than happens where the Scripture is sealed up in Greek and Latine and the People taught the same things out of them by Preachers but they that are of a Condition and Age fit to examine the sense of what they read and that take a delight in searching out the grounds of their duty certainly cannot chuse but by reading of the Scriptures come to such a sense of their Duty as not only to obey the Laws themselves but also to induce others to do the same for commonly Men of Age and quality are followed by their inseriour Neighbours that look more upon the example of those Men whom they Reverence and whom they are unwilling to displease then upon Precepts and Laws A. These men of the Condition and Age you speak of are in my opinion the unfittest of all others to be trusted with the reading of the Scriptures I know you mean such as have studied the Greek or Latin or both Tongues and that are withal such as love knowledge and consequently take delight in finding out the meaning of the most hard Texts or in thinking they have found it in case it be new and not found out by others these are therefore they that pretermitting the easie places that teach them their duty fall to scanning only the Mysteries of Religion Such as are how it may be made out with wit that there be three that bear Rule in Heaven and those three but one how the Deity could be made flesh how that flesh could be really present in many places at once where 's the place and what the Torments of Hell and other Metaphysical Doctrines whether the Will of Man be free or govern'd by the will of God whether Sanctity comes by Inspiration or Education by whom Christ now speaks to us whether by the King or by the Bible to every man that reads it and interprets it to himself or by a private Spirit to every private Man These and the like poâ—nts are the study of the curious and the cause of all our late mischief and the cause that makes the plainer sort of men whom the Scriptures had taught belief in Christ love towards God obedience towards the King and sobriety of Behaviour forget it all and place their Religion in the Disputable Doctrines of your wise men A. I do not think these men fit to interpret the Scriptures to the rest nor do I say that the rest ought to take their interpretation for the word of God Whatsoever is necessary for them to know more does them no good but in case any of these unnecessary Doctrines shall be Authorized by the Laws of the King or other state I say it is the duty of every Subject not to speak against them in asmuch as 't is every Mans duty to obey him or them that have the Soveraign power and the wisdom of all such powers to punish such as shall publish or teach their private Interpretations when they are contrary to the Law and likely to incline men to sedition or disputing against the Law B. They must punish then the most of those that have had there breeding in the Universities for such curious questions in Divinity are first started in the Universities and so are all those politick questions concerning the rights of Civil and Ecclesiastical Government and there they are furnished with Arguments for Liberty out of the works of Aristotle Plato Cicero Seneca and out of the Histories of Rome and Greece for their disputation against the necessary power of their Soveraigns therefore I dispare of any lasting peace among our selves till the Universities here shall bend and direct their studies to the setling of it That is to the Teaching of Absolute obedience to the Laws of the King and to his publick Edicts under the great Seal of England For I make no doubt but that solid reason backt with the Authority of so many Learned men will more prevail for the keeping of us in peace within our selves than any victory over the Rebells but I am afraid 't is unpossible to bring the Universities to such a compliance with the Actions of State as is necessary for the business seeing the Universities have heretofore from time to time maintain'd the Authority of the Pope contrary to all Laws Divine Civil and Natural against Right of our Kings why can they not as well when they have all manner of Laws and Equity on their side maintain the Rights of him that is both Soveraign of the Kingdom and Head of the Church B. Why then were they not in all points for the Kings power presently after that King Henry 8. was in Parliament declared Head of the Church as much as they were before for the Authory of the Pope A. Because the Clergy in the Universities by whom all things there are govern'd and the Clergy wâ—thout the Universities as well Bishops as Inseriour Clerks did think that the pulling down of the Pope was the setting up of them as to England in his place and made no question the greateâ—t part of them but that their spiritual power did depend not upon the Authority of the King but of Christ himself derived to them by successible Imposition of hands from Bishop to Bishop notwithstanding they knew that â—iâ—is derivation passed through the hands of Popes and Bishops whose Authority they had cast off for though they were content that the Divine right which the Pope pretended to in England should be denied him yet they thought it rot so fit to be taken from the Church of England whom they now supposed themselves to represent It seems they did not think it reasonable that a Woman or a Child or a Man that could not construe the Hebrew Greek or Latin Bible nor know perhaps the Declensions and Conjugations of Greek or Latin Nounes and Verbs should take upon him to govern so many Learned Doctors in matters of Religion meaning matters of Divinity for Religion has been for a long time and is now by most people taken for the same thing with Divinity to the great advantage of the Clergy A. And especially now amongst the Presbyterians for I see few that are esteemed by them very good Christians besides such as can repeat their Sermons and wrangle so them about Interpretat on of the Scripture and fight for them also with their Bodies or Purses when they shall be required to believe in Christ is nothing with them unless you believe as they bid you Charity is nothing with them unless it be Charity and Liberality to them and partaking with them in Faction How we can have peace while this is our Religion I cannot tell Haeret Laterilethalis arundo The
on but also by the Earl of Strafford himself he would have pardoned him if that could have preserved him from the Tumult raised and countenanced by the Parliament it self for the terrifying of those they thought might favour him and yet the King himself did not stick to confess afterwards that he had done amiss in that he did not rescue him B. 'T was an Argument of a good disposition in the King but I never read that Augustus Caesar acknowledged that he did a fault in abandoning Cicero to the fury of his Enemy Antonius perhaps because Cicero having been of the contrary Faction to his Father had done Augustus no service at all not out of favour to him but only out of enmity to Antonius and of love to the Senate that is indeed out of love to himself that swayed the Senate as it is very likely the Earl of Strafford came over to the King's Party for his own ends having been so much against the King in former Parliaments A. We cannot safely judge of men's intentions but I have observed often that such as seek preferment by their Stubbornness have missed of their aim and on the other side that those Princes that with preferment are forced to buy the Obedience of their Subjects are already or must be soon after in a very weak condition for in a Market where Honour is to be bought with Stubbornness there will be a great many as able to buy as my Lord Strafford was B. You have read that when Hercules fighting with the Hydra had cut off any one of his many Heads there still arose two other Heads in it's place and yet at last he cut them off all A. The story is told false for Hercules at first did not cut off those Heads but bought them off and afterwards when he saw that did him no good then he cut them off and got the Victory B. What did they next A. After the first Impeachment of the Earl of Strafford the House of Commons upon December 18. accused the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury also of High Treason that is of a Design to introduce Arbitrary Government c. For which he was February 18. sent to the Tower but his Trial and Execution were deferred a long time till January 10. 1643. for the entertainment of the Scots that were come into England to aid the Parliament B. Why did the Scots think there were so much danger in the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury he was not a Man of War nor a Man able to bring an Army into the Field but he was perhaps a very great Politician A. That did not appear by any remarkable events of his Councils I never heard but he was a very honest man for his Morals and a very zealous promoter of the Church Government by Bishops and that he desired to have the Service of God performed and the House of God adorned as suitably as was possible to the Honour we ought to do to the Divine Majesty But to bring as he did into the State his Former Controversies I mean his squablings in the University about Free Will and his standing upon Punctilio's concerning the Service-Book and its Rubricks was not in my opinion an Argument of his sufficiency in Affairs of State About the same time they passed an Act which the King consented to for a Triennial Parliament wherein was Enacted That after the present Parliament there should be a Parliament call'd by the King within the space of three years and so from three years to three years to meet at Westminster upon a certain day named in the Act. B. But what if the King did not call it finding it perhaps inconvenient or hurtful to the Safety or Peace of his People which God hath put into his Charge for I do not well comprehend how any Soveraign can well keep a People in order when his hands are-tied or when he hath any other Obligation upon him than the benefit of those he Governs And at this time for any thing you told me they acknowledged the King for their Soveraign A. I know not but such was the Act And it was farther Enacted That if the King did it not by his own Command then the Lord Chancellour or the Lord Keeper for the time being should send out the Writs of Summons And if the Chancellour refused then the Sheriffs of the several Counties of themselves at the next County Courts before the day set down for the Parliament's meeting should proceed to Election of the Members for the said Parliament B. But what if the Sheriffs refused A. I think they were to be sworn to it but for that and other particulars I refer you to the Act. B. To whom should they be sworn when there is no Parliament A. No doubt but to the King whether there be a Parliament sitting or no. B. Then the King may Release them of their Oath A. Besides They obtained of the King the putting down the Star Chamber and the High Commission Courts B. Besides If the King upon the refusal should fall upon them in an Anger Who shall the Parliament not sitting Protect either the Chancellor or the Sheriffs in their Disobedience A. I pray you do not ask me any Reason of such things I understand no better than you I tell you only an Act passed to that purpose and was Signed by the King in the middle of February a little before the Arch-Bishop was sent to the Tower Besides this Bill the two Houses of Parliament agreed upon another wherein it was Enacted That the present Parliament would continue till both the Houses did consent to the Dissolution of it which Bill also the King Signed the same day he Signed the Warrant for the Execution of the Earl of Strafford B. What a great Progress made the Parliament towards the ends of the most seditious Members of both Houses in so little time They sat down in November and now it was May in this space of time which is but half a year they won from the King the Adherence which was due to him from his People they drove his faithfullest Servants from him beheaded the Earl of Strafford Imprisoned the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury obtained a Triennial Parliament after their own Dissolution and a continuance of their own sitting as long as they listed which last amounted to a total extinction of the King 's right in case that such a Grant were valid which I think is not unless the soveraignty it self be in plain terms renounced which it was not but what Money by way of subsidue or otherwise did they grant the King in recompence of all these his large concessions A. None at all but often promised they would make him the most glorious King that ever was in England which were words that passed well enough for welmeaning with the common People B. But the Parliament was contented now for I cannot imagin what they should desire more from the King than he had now granted them A. Yes
such a course and what hopes He had of Money Men Arms Fortified Places Shipping Council and Military Offices sufficient for such an Enterprize against the Parliament that had Men and Money as much at Command as the City of London and other Corporation Towns were able to furnish which was more than they needed And for the Men they should set forth for Soldiers they were almost all of them spightfully bent against the King and his whole Party whom they took to be either Papists or Flatterers of the King or that had design'd to raise their Fortunes by the Plunder of the City and other Corporation Towns and though I believe not that they were more valiant than other Men nor that they had so much Experience in the War as to be accounted good Soldiers yet they had that in them which in time of Battle is more conducing to Victory than Valor and Experience both together and that was Spight And for Arms they had in their hands the chief Magazines the Tower of London and Kingston upon Hull besides most of the Powder and Shot that lay in several Towns for the use of the Trained Bands Fortified places there were not many then in England and most of them in the hands of the Parliament The King's Fleet was wholly in their Command under the Earl of Warwick Counsellors they needed no more than such as were of their own Body so that the King was every way inferior to them except it were perhaps in Officers A. I cannot compare their chief Officers for the Parliament The Earl of Essex after the Parliament had Voted the War was made General of all their Forces both in England and Ireland from whom all other Commanders were to receive their Commissions B. What moved them to make the Earl of Essex General And for what cause was the Earl of Essex so displeased with the King as to accept that Office A. I do not certainly know what to answer to either of those Questions but the Earl of Essex had been in the Wars abroad and wanted neither Experience Judgment nor Courage to perform such an undertaking and besides that you have heard I believe how great a Darling of the People his Father had been before him and what Honour he gad gotten by the success of his Enterprize upon Cales and in some other Military Actions To which I may add That this Earl himself was not held by the People to be so great a Favourite at Court as that they might not trust him with their Army against the King and by this you may perhaps conjecture the cause for which the Parliament made choice of him for General B. But why did they think him discontented with the Court A. I know not that nor indeed that he was so he came to Court as other Noblemen did when occasion was to wait upon the King but had no Office till a little before this time to oblige him to be there continually but I believe verily that the unfortunateness of his Marriage had so discountenanced his Conversation with Ladies that the Court could not be his proper Element unless he had had some extraordinary favour there to balance that calamity For particular discontent from the King or intention of revenge for any supposed disgrace I think he had none nor that he was any ways addicted to Presbyterian Doctrines or other Phanatic Tenets in Church or State saving only that he was carried away with the stream in a manner of the whole Nation to think that England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy not considering that the Supreme Power must always be absolute whether it be in the King or in the Parliament B. Who was General of the King's Army A. None yet but Himself nor indeed had He yet any Army but there coming to him at that time two Nephews the Princes Rupert and Maurice He put the Command of His Horse into the hands of Prince Rupert a man than whom no man living has a better courage nor was more active and diligent in prosecuting his Commission and though but a young man then was not without experience in the conducting of Soldiers as having been an Actor in part of his Father's Wars in Germany B. But how could the King find Money to pay such an Army as was necessary for Him against the Parliament A. Neither the King nor Parliament had much Money at that time in their own hands but were fain to rely upon the Benevolence of those that took their parts wherein I confess the Parliament had a mighty great advantage Those that helped the King in that kind were only Lords and Gentlemen which not approving the proceedings of the Parliament were willing to undertake the payment every one of a certain number of Horse which cannot be thought any very great assistance the persons that paid them being so few for other Moneys that the King then had I have not heard of any but what he borrow'd upon Jewels in the Low-Countries whereas the Parliament had a very plentiful Contribution not only from London but generally from their Faction in all other places of England upon certain Propositions published by the Lords and Commons in June 1642. at which time they had newly Voted That the King intended to make War upon them for bringing in of Money or Plate to maintain Horse and Horse-men and to buy Arms for the preservation of the public Peace and for the defence of the King and both Houses of Parliament for the Repaying of which Money and Plate they were to have the Public Faith B. What Public Faith is there when there is no Public What is it that can be call'd Public in a Civil War without the King A. The truth is the Security was nothing worth but serv'd well enough to gull those seditious Blockheads that were more fond of change than either of their peace or profit having by this means gotten Contributions from those that were the well-affected to their Cause they made use of it afterwards to force the like Contribution from others for in November following they made an Ordinance for Assessing also of those that had not contributed then or had contributed but not proportionably to their Estates And yet this was contrary to what the Parliament promised and declared in the Propositions themselves for they declared in the first Proposition That no man's Affection should be measured by the proportion of his Offer so that he expressed his good will to the Service in any proportion whatsoever Besides this in the beginning of March following they made an Ordinance to Levy weekly a great Sum of Money upon every County City Town Place and Person of any Estate almost in England which weekly Sum as may appear by the Ordinance it self printed and published in March 1642 by Order of both Houses comes to almost 33000 l. and consequently to above 1700000 l. for the year They had besides all this the profits of the King's Lands
Tax upon the people of ninety thousand pound a Month for the maintenance of the Army B Was it not one of their Quarrels with the King that he had levied Money without the consent of the people in Parliament A. You may see by this what reason the Rump had to call it self a Parliament for the Taxes imposed by Parliament were always understood to be by the peoples consent and consequently legal To appease the Scots they sent Messengers with flattering Letters to keep them from ingaging for the present King but in vain for they would hear nothing from a House of Commons as they call'd it at Westminster without a King and Lords But they sent Commissioners to the King to let him know what they were doing for him for they were resolv'd to raise an Army of seventeen thousand Foot and six thousand Horse for themselves To relieve Ireland the Rump had resolv'd to send eleven Regiments thither out of the Army here in England This happened well for Cromwel for the Levelling Soldiers which were in every Regiment many and in some the major part finding that instead of dividing the Land at home they were to venture their Lives in Ireland flatly denied to go and one Regiment having cashier'd their Colonel about Salisbury was marching to joyn with three Regiments more of the same resolution but both the General and Cromwel falling upon them at Burford utterly defeated them and soon after reduced the whole Army to their obedience And thus another of the Impediments to Cromwel's Advancement was soon remov'd Thus done they came to Oxford and thence to London and at Oxford both the General and Cromwel were made Doctors of the Civil Law and at London â—easted and presented by the City B. Were they not first made Masters then Dâ—ctors A. They had made themselves Masters already both of the Laws and Parliament The Army being now obedient the Rump sent over those eleven Regiments into Ireland under the Command of Doctor Cromwel Entituled Governour of that Kingdom the Lord Fairfax being still General of all the Forces both here and there The Marquess now Duke of Ormond was the Kings Lieutenant of Ireland and the Rebels had made a Confederacy among themselves and those Confederates had made a kind of League with the Lieutenant wherein they agreed upon liberty given them in the exercise of their Religion to be faithful to and assist the King To these also were joyned some Forces raised by the Earls of Castlehaven and Clanriccard and my Lord Inchequin so that they were the greatest United Strength in the Island but there were among them a great many other Papists that would by no means subject themselves to Protestants and these were called the Nuncio's Party as the other were called the Confederate Party These Parties not agreeing and the Confederate Party having broken their Articles the Lord Lieutenant seeing them ready to besiege him in Dublin and not able to defend it to preserve the place for the Protestants surrenders it to the Parliament of England and came over to the King at this time when he was carried from place to place by the Army From England he went over to the Prince now King residing then at Paris But the Confederates affrighted with the news that the Rump was sending over an Army thither desir'd the Prince by Letters to send back my Lord of Ormond ingaging themselves to submit absolutely to the Kings Authority and to obey my Lord of Ormond as his Lieutenant And thereupon he was sent back This was about a year before the going over of Cromwel in which time by the Dissentions in Ireland between the Confederate Party and the Nuncio's Party and discontents about Command this otherwise sufficient Power effected nothing and was at last defeated August the second by a Salley out of Dublin which they were besieging Within a few days after arriv'd Cromwel who with extraordinary diligence and horrid Executions in less than a Twelve-month that he staid there subdued in a manner the whole Nation having kill'd or exterminated a great part of them and leaving his Son-in-law Ireton to subdue the rest But Ireton died there before the business was quite done of the Plague This was one step more towards Cromwel's Exaltation to the Throne B. What a miserable condition was Ireland reduced to by the Learning of the Roman as well as England was by the Learning of the Presbyterian Clergy A. In the latter end of the preceeding year the King was come from Paris to the Hague and shortly after came thither from the Rump their Agent Dorisâ—aus Doctor of the Civil Law who had been imployed in the drawing of the Charge against the late King But the first night he came as he was at Supper a Company of Cavaliers near a dozen entred his Chamber kill'd him and got away Not long after also their Agent at Madrid one Ascham that had written in defence of his Masters was kill'd in the same manner About this tire came out two Books one written by Salmasius a Presbyterian against the Murder of the King another written by Milton an Independent in England in Answer to it B. I have seen them both they are very good Laâ—iâ—â— both and hardly to be judged which is better and both very ill reasoning and hardly to be judged which is worst like two Declamations Pro and Con for Exercise only in a Rhetorick School by one and the same man So like is a Presbyterian to an Independent A. In this year the Rump did not much at home save that in the beginning they made England a Free State by an Act that runs thus Be it Enacted and Declared by this present Parliament and by the Authority thereof That the people of England and all the Dominions and Territories thereunto belonging are and shall be and are hereby constituted made and declared a Common-wealth and Free State c. B. What did they mean by a Free State and Common-wealth were the people no longer to be subject to Laws They could not mean that for the Parliament meant to Govern them by their own Laws and punish such as broke them Did they mean that England should not be subject to any foreign Kingdom or Common-wealth That needed not be Enacted seeing there was no King nor People pretended to be their Masters What did they mean then A. They meant that neither this King nor any King nor any single person but only that they themselves would be the Peoples Masters and would have set it down in those plain words if the people could have been cozen'd with words intelligible as easily as with words not intelligible After this they gave one another Money and Estates out of the Lands and Goods of the Loyal Party They Enacted also an Engagement to be taken by every man in these words Tou shall promise to be true and faithful to the Common-wealth of England as it is now established without King or House of Lords They