Selected quad for the lemma: state_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
state_n	catholic_n	church_n	communion_n	1,794	5	10.0028	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A62668	To receive the Lords Supper, the actual right and duty of all church-members of years not excommunicate made good against Mr. Collins his exceptions against The bar removed, written by the author : and what right the ignorant and scandalous tolerated in the church have to the Lords Supper declared : many thing belonging to that controversie more fully discussed, tending much to the peace and settlement of the church : and also a ful answer to what Mr. Collins hath written in defence of juridical suspension, wherein his pretended arguments from Scripture are examined and confuted : to which is also annexed A brief answer to the Antidiatribe written by Mr. Saunders / by John Timson ...	Timson, John.; Timson, John. Brief answer to the antidiatribe written by Mr. Saunders.	1655 (1655)	Wing T1296; ESTC R1970	185,323	400

to it and coming ought to be admitted If the proposition be true Answ as is granted it is then it will follow that all Church-members should be encouraged unto the pertaking of that which is for their spiritual good And it 's most injurious for any to deprive any of that spiritual good that proffer themselves or discourage them so to doe But he hath two things to except against the consequence He saith Was not the Passeover so appointed yet he thinks unclean persons might not come during their uncleannesse But now there is no such uncleannesse in the Gospel Church to hinder any Answ 1 They were no more debarred the Passeover then all other publick worship nor so much for provision was made for them in that case not in the other And as that of Moral uncleannesse was no hinderance then so not now as hath been shewed and hence his first exception is worth nothing But then 2. he tels us That some reverend men think the excommunicate person is yet a member of the Catholick Church and shall not be baptized upon his repentance and he owning the true religion and being baptized his repentance being supposed the Sacrament is for his good but it will not therefore follow he ought in that state of his excommunication to come to the Sacrament It 's not material to the question Answ 1 whether the excommunicate be dismembred or not it 's sufficient to my purpose that he be dispossest of all external priviledges of the Church during his impenitency in that condition he is justly sentenced unto to debar him the Sacrament And I think all parties are agreed in this and in this case I deny that the Sacrament is for his good while he is under the last remedy and Ordinance of Christ for his amendment or utter ruine Then if you suppose his repentance and satisfying the Church he ought to be loosed from that sentence and received into Church communion again That the justly excommunicate are absolutely dismembred is too harsh to affirm untill we be able to judge that he hates to be reformed under the Churches just censures adding unto his incorrigible sinning not only obstinacy but Apostasie And then he is undone for ever For what the Church bindes on earth is bound in heaven though the Churches main end is onely to reform and heal a diseased member Therefore though I should grant him not absolutely dismembred and yet deny him the Sacrament it doth not follow that Church-members under Church indulgence or forbearance may be denyed the Sacrament These are two different cases And therefore doth not in the least hurt my first proposition My second proposition is That the Church of Christ consists of good and bad And this Mr. Collins grants me also And it having such a dependence on the first that it compleats for my opinion this argument The holy Supper is instituted for the spiritual good of every particular member of the Church But this Church of Christ consists of good and bad regenerate and unregenerate therefore the holy Supper is instituted for the spiritual good of good and bad regenerat● and unregenerate and consequently is to be administred to them in order to that good I conceive that both propositions bein● granted the conclusion cannot be denyed My third is That the unregenerate in th● Church are the only immediate objects of the pr●mise of the first grace Mr. Collins answers unto this thus That b● h●d rather say that the unregenerate are objects 〈◊〉 the first grace then of the promise of that grace 〈◊〉 the promises profit not any without faith and h●● the unregenerate should apply the promise he ca●not tell 1. Answ In granting them objects of the fin● grace he grants them to be objects of the promise of that grace Unlesse the first grace is not at all to be lookt for from the promise 2. Nor promised unto any at all 3. Or else given to some to whom God never promised it The which things to affirm would be point blanck against the Scriptures So that the question is whether Mr. Collins doth own any such thing as promises of giving the first grace at all For if there be any such promises at all made to the Church in general they must of necessity immediately respect some proper object that hath not that grace of and in it self it is want and misery that is the proper object of grace and mercy But why should Mr. Collins expresse himself thus doubtfully in such a main thing Doth he not baptize all Infants upon this account chiefly that the promise is to the Parents and children surely if they be not objects of the promises of the first grace the most of ours every where are objects of no promises that Sacraments seal for it 's too certain that they and theirs have not a true sincere purifying faith to apply the other promises of salvation This is certain if they be not objects of the promises of the first grace they cannot be objects of the promises of crowning that grace with glory exclude the unregenerate in the Church from the promise of the first grace and you exclude them from all And then judge what will follow And where he saith The premises profit not any without faith shall the want of a fincere faith make the faithfulnesse of God without effect God forbid Let God be true in what he hath promised to the Church in general and indefinite terms and every man a lyar Rom. 3.3 4. We know of the Jews that were the greatest enemies unto Christ a remnant of them were sanctified and saved according unto Act. 2.39 Peter tels the wicked Jews that were guilty of the innocent bloud of Christ that the promise is to them and their children before he knew whether they would repent or no. What faith had they when Peter told them so not so as much ours have that generally believe that Christ i● the only Saviour of the world These Jews denyed this yet being of the visible Church as descended from Abraham the Apostle make● them and their children objects of the promises and hence perswades them to repent o● what they had done against Christ be baptized for remission of sins c. And so many 〈◊〉 received his word were baptized indeed and submitted themselves to the obedience o● faith What though the unregenerate cannot actually apply those promises by faith unto themselves Doth it follow that therefor● they are not objects or susceptives of them in a passive sense God being free in making these promises unto them and by his Spirit in the use of his own appointments to apply them effectually unto whom he will of such that have not faith to apply them Forasmuch as not any can in astrict sense believe until he be impowered with regenerating grace No nor then without the concurrence of a divine aid to apply the promises made to such a blessed state to their own comfort and salvation Besides the

distinction above We know in the Church Not the hearers of the Word but the doers thereof shall be blesied in their deed persons in the Church are bound to observe and doe all that Christ in his Word hath commanded upon that account they have the promise of his gracious presence and if the Sacrament be an Ordinance of Christ for the good of his Church why may we not exspect the presence of Christ in blessing this for the spiritual good of his Church as all the rest Mr. Collins must give stronger reasons to deny it a converting Ordinance then these or else he had better have said nothing me thinks Mr. Gillespie might have furnished him with a greater strength then so Next he saith Either the Word alone read at the administration is to convert or Word and signes making up the Sacrament if the Word only he thinks wicked men may stay and hear that if we say more we must prove it This Answ as it is no argument to prove the negative so it need not be answered for his main thing in this is to bid us prove that the Sacrament is a converting Ordinance in the Church the which I conceive is clearly done already And when Mr. Collins is able to exclude the Sacrament from the work of the Ministry in the Church and exclude Word and Prayer in order to the Sacrament from that work and end of converting in the Church and can exclude this Ordinance from being a spiritual instrument in the hand of the Spirit of Christ to quicken whom he will and can exclude the unregenerate from Covenant relation and membership and allow them no other priviledge in the Church for their spiritual good then unto Infidels c. I say when he hath performed this task soundly and substantially it 's possible he may make the vanity of our opinion that are for the affirmative to appear and put us upon further proof untill then let the Judiclous Reader judge of the arguments between us whether ours or his be most rational and satisfactory as they are deducted from general rules of Scripture and reason And by this time I have given you an account of all that Mr. Collins hath excepted against the first part of my book I doe not know of any material thing I have omitted to answer in particular but indeed not so much for any great cause I had thus to doe in what he hath said to loosen the foundations and principles upon which my whole building stands but from a desire further to clear up the thing in controversie and to reduce the controversie into a narrower compasse In the close of Mr. Collins answer he collects about seven rotten pillars as he cals them out of the whole of mine and pens them down as he pleaseth and then bids others judge of them taking it for granted that he hath discovered them to be rotten and false And that my Book hath not much truth in any one page of it It 's possible that there may be some things in my Book that are doubtful Answ 1 and that upon the piercing tryal of some grave Divines of deeper Judgements may be discovered unsound or rendered weak but I am confident that Mr. Collins hath made no such discovery in any one thing that he hath excepted against I humbly conceive that whosoever undertakes to answer the main grounds and principles I build upon for free admission to the Sacrament they must deny our Church and Baptism or else destroy themselves by their own inconsistences let their parts be what they will And I wonder that any of the Presbyterian judgement should contend with me for they doe but discover their own nakednesse and give occasion unto Brownists and Anabaptists to reproach us so that I professe I am afraid to speak what I should in some things I shall give you a breviate of the principles I build upon in the managing of this in controversie That the Eternal God hath created all mankinde for himself and hath decreed the blessed and everlasting happinesse of some with all the wayes and means for that end with his eternal purpose not to give special grace unto the rest but in his wisdome and providence doth so order and dispose of the means effectually in respect of sin and the punishment thereof to the infinite glory of his Justice in the just condemnation of the wicked world That for the Elects sake Christ was promised after the fall and came into the world as the only means of Gods putting into execution his eternal purposes concerning their salvation the whole creation and race of mankinde is preserved successively in their generations for the being and gathering of Gods Elect unto grace and glory That Jesus Christ is the only meriting and procuring cause of the Gospel Covenant freely made and published unto some of mankind of free choice That this Covenant of grace is of a large comprehensive extent including the parents and their children in their generations for ever to them that have entred into it by profession and baptism and doe not renounce i● or apostate from it That the Covenant of Grace consists it promises of giving the first regenerating grace Secondly in promises of growth in grace Thirdly In promises of rewarding graces with comfortable blessings temporal and spiritual in this life and with eternal glory i● the world to come That the Church of God on earth is so constituted by the will and pleasure of God that in it might alwayes be sutable objects o● those different promises included in the Gospel Covenant unto which the natural issue of Christians in the visible Church doth well agree That Sacraments as they represent the death of Christ are seals confirming the truth of the whole Covenant of grace made and published to the visible Church only That Sacraments are instituted and intended only for the Churches use in order to the spiritual good thereof in general which includes the use of every one in particular That all in the Church come under the the obligation of all instituted worship prescribed of which Sacraments are a principal part That Covenant relation is either personal or parental the former founded upon profession of faith and holy baptism the later derived really and wholly by succession That a positive profession of faith explicitely is necessity unto admission unto Church-membership of those that are Heathens born but Church-membership is the birth priviledge of all born of Christian parents in the Church That to be Saints Believers Disciples a Brother and within is understood by Church-membership That during the state of Church-membership every member ought to enjoy the external priviledges of that Church whereof he is a member in particular untill he voluntarily fall away by final apostasie or be justly cast out of all Church Communion by an authoritative act of Church censures That those that derive their Church-membership from that great Charter of Covenant relation with the Church and have it confirmed

supply means of instructing them in the. PAg. 4 lin 7. read unto p. 13. l. 27. r. privative p. 1● l 6. r. reaching p. 29. l. 8. for il r for it p. 31. l. 12. r. Vzzahs p. 31. l. 14. r. answer p. 50. l. 10. r. undvoidable p. 64. l. 15. r. examen p. 71. l. 1 3. r. a knowledge p 89. l. 14. r. propositions p. 98. l. 12. r. leavened p. 99. l. 21. r. chain p. 100. l. 27. r. visible p. 116. l. 2. r. adjourned pag. 138. l. 28. supply in after doth p. 156. l. 9. r. uneldered l. 30. supply of the whole Church after settlement p. 161. l. 9. r. privative p. 166. l. 2. f. examination r. argument p. 170. l. 2. r. irreproveable p. 189. l. 7. supply an ordinance of after give p. 199. l. 6 dele it p. 216. l. 3. f. first r. fift p. 249. l. 15. f. power r. prevalency p. 275. l. 21. r. suspition p. 280. l. 1. f. know r. how p. 286. l. 27. f. which r. when p. 298. l. 32. r. to persecutions p. 312. l. 29. r. think p. 327. l. 8. put in profitable after that is l. 16. r. themselves To Receive the Lords Supper the actual Right and Duty of all Church-Members of years not Excommunicate BEloved Christian friends Although I judge that I am not as yet answered by Mr. Collings there being enough in my Book to answer him and vindicate it self from whatsoever is as yet objected against it to the Judicious and impartial Reader yet with respect unto Mr. Collings who is esteemed a Gentleman learned and worthy according unto his title and some profitable labours for the Churches good And also for the further satisfying both of the weak and plain minded Christians As also the confirming of those my friends that cordially imbrace my Book and adhere to the truth asserted therein And that the controversie it self may come to some clearer issue and something more may be discovered in order unto peace and truth and reformation in the Church of God in all humility and respect unto different mindes I crave leave once more soberly and freely to present my thoughts unto further consideration for I judge that Mr. Collings hath been too hasty in concluding that my main principles are rotten that I have made the ground of my discourse by what he hath said in answer thereunto for the truth is he hath not in the least disabled any one main thing I have asserted nor is willing to keep to the question as it 's stated nor answer to any purpose where the main stresse of Controversie lies but trifles about Infants and distracted and Pagans and the excommunicate the admitting of which a● such not any in our times plead for And therefore he might have said lesse to these and more to those that the thing in controversie concerns namely Whether the unregenerate or ignorant and scandalous members in the Church being baptized and of years not excommunicate may be debarred the Lords Supper they expressing their desires to receive and proffering themselves I answer in the negative all along that they may not be put by Mr. Collings seems to be offended with my charging the Reverend Doctor with unbrotherly dealing A thing saith he that my self am more guilty of which I think is hardly so unlesse the worthinesse of the person my opinion strikes at doth so much the more aggravate the thing As for my not taking notice of Mr. Humfreys reflections as he cals them it may be better excused as to my self and friend then the other can 1. Because that part of the Book which concerned the Doctor was finished and gone from me towards the Presse before ever I knew of Mr. Humfreys rejoinder 2. When I did read it over I thought his returns to such bitter censures and invectives against him were very pathetical yet humble and melting and well becoming a sober charitable Christian and fellow-labourer with the other in the holy Gospel 3. I have heard many godly and learned in the Ministery acknowledge that his returns are humble and charitable and yet quick and rational As to Mr. Collings quotation of the two last pages of his rejoynder I conceive that Mr. Humfrey little thought that any would be so uncharitable as to take his Allegorical reproof and caution in that unfeemly sense that Mr. Collings will force upon it there being not any Scripture uncapable of a rational application And those that are impartial and sober can judge no lesse of that And for those six or seven dissatisfactions of mine concerning the practice of some Presbyterians unassociated I know not how I should have expressed my self more modestly then by professing my self unsatisfied giving so many hints as I have clearly done against those things I charge them with And I am sure if the main principles in my Book stand firm as I think they will for any thing yet said against me Mr. Collings will not be very zealous for ruling Elders nor Suspension distinct from Excommunication Church examination of her members into actual receiving nor leaving out without any judicial proceedings But to the matter it self let us see what he hath said against that First his demand is What it is that gives one right to the Sacrament of the Supper he knows the answer will be Church membership either this alone or something else if this alone then Infants and mad men and drunkards must come say what they can if they say not Church-membership alone doth give a full right then many of their arguments fail 1. Answ That Church membership alone gives one a legal right to the Lords Supper according unto Gospel rules the which right is a true right and that sufficient unto free admission of all in the Church but then this right is to be distinguished into a real right in point of title and a right of actual possession and injoyment the former right respects all Infants born of Christian Parents the latter right belongs unto all Church-members of years that are baptized and in a rational and Church capacity actually to enjoy their right An heir in his infancy hath as true a right unto his Fathers land he being dead as an heir at full age but yet it doth not follow that a childe under age shall be left actually to manage his right himself in that state as an heir at one and twenty We know the Apostle saith it An heir under age differs not from a servant though he be Lord of all Yet such is the the consequence of Mr. Collings touching Infant Communion if we grant them a true right as members in point of title and a remote right actually to injoy assoon as they are in a natural and rational capacity then saith he they as members must come say what we can to the contrary Although Mr. Humfrey and my self have shewed a clear difference between Infants and distracted and the ignorant at age in several particulars The