Selected quad for the lemma: state_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
state_n	bishop_n	church_n	presbyter_n	1,153	5	10.3687	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A49524	The reformed Presbyterian, humbly offering to the consideration of all pious and peaceable spirits several arguments for obedience to the act for unifromity, as the way to vnity and endeavouring to demonstrate by clear inferences from the sacred scriptures, the writings of some of the ancients, or several old pastors of the reformed churches abroad, and of the most eminent old non-conformists amongst ourselves : as Mr. Josias Nichols, Mr. Paul Baines, and other learned divines : as for Mr. Perkins, Mr. Iohn Randal, and Mr. Rob. Bolton, that there is nothing required by the act for vniformity that is forbidden by the law of God / by Rich. Lytler ...	Lytler, Richard.	1662 (1662)	Wing L3573; ESTC R1525	139,662	290

manner hath been very imperfect at the best That this and other things also required to make a complete Ordination were absent in the Ordination by the classes generally I suppose you will grant by what I further offer out of the Five Disput. pag. 204. to your consideration It is there said Sect. 22. Argument 7. Where all these forementioned qualifications of the Ordainer do concur viz. That he be the Pasto● 〈◊〉 a particular Church and the chief Pastor of it and the Pastor of a City Church and have Deacons and Presbyters under him and be the fixed President of a Presbytery and the Moderator or President of a larger Presbytery of the Pastors of many Churches there according to the principles of the rigid sort of Dissenters the Ordination is valid But all these forementioned qualifications do frequently concur to some of our present Ordainers in England therefore their Ordination is valid The premisses are so plain that they need no confirmation Sect. 10. From whence I observe that where these qualifications have not concurred in all that have been Ordainers of others for these several years late past there the Ordination that hath been received from such is very invalid and imperfect That these qualifications now have not concurred in all of the Ordainers of others in this City or elsewhere in their several classes that they have neither been chief Pastors of a City Church that they have had neither Deacons nor Presbyters under them that they have not been the fixed Presidents of a Presbytery or Presidents of a larger Presbytery of the Pastors of many Churches is so clear and evident that it cannot I suppose be modestly denied Sect. 11. The Ordination therefore by Presbyters alone being so incomplete upon all these considerations so contrary to the council of Carthage the practice of the primitive times so defective of all these qualifications of the Ordainer last mentioned To receive Ordination from Bishops by those that have thus received Ordination from Presbyters alone without Bishops must needs be lawful and warrantable and maketh the Ordination to be more agreeable to what hath been the practice of the primitive Church by these quotations before alledged Sect. 12. But it may be objected That to be thus ordained after Ordination by Presbyters is against that canon called the Apostles Petition for peace pag. 10. which deposeth those that re-ordain and those that be re-ordained For answer to which The canon called the Apostles doth indeed say somewhat to that purpose but that it may appear it doth not reach the case I shall set down the words thereof Siquis Episcopus aut Presbyter aut Diaconus secundam ob aliq o Ordinationem susceperit deponitur tam ipse quam qui ipsum ordinavit nisi forte constet eum Ordinationem habere ab haereticis qui enim à talibus baptizati aut ordinati sunt hi neque fideles neque clerici esse possunt Observe here in the first place this canon doth allow of three degrees of order then in the function of the Ministry of Bishops Presbyters and Deacons Secondly this canon supposeth that Ordination was chiefly to be made by one in the singular number Thirdly it supposeth that Re-ordination is no crime where the Ordination hath not been regular if the persons ordaining have been but erroneous as to this point of Ordination by Presbyters alone without Bishops That this Ordination was not sufficient I hope I may without offence tell you was the judgment of the ancient Church Epiphan haeres 69. Colluthus was a Presbyter in one of the Churches of Alexandria and falling away from the Bishop there for some mis-likes ordained himself certain Presbyters for which this Colluthus was convented in the general Council before Hosius and the rest of the * Athan. apol 2. in literis Presbyter c. Bishops and commanded to carry himself for a Presbyter as he was before and all those that were ordained by him to return to their former state Sect. 13. If you please to read in Athanasius apolog 2. you will find the judgment of the primitive Church about Presbyters ordaining Presbyters alone to be such as required Re-ordination I beseech you therefore let me propound but this case to you Suppose some of those Presbyters that had in the time of Novatus sworn with him that they would not return to their catholick Bishops and in this time of their schism from the Church had ordained one another would not the pleading of the canon against Re-ordination be interpreted a wilful continuance in that schism in them and that they had no inclinations to return unto their catholick Bishops I suppose you could not but look upon this as a great evil in them so to do and is an evil to be avoided wheresoever it hides it self though under never such good pretences Sect. 14. Be perswasded therefore that this may be no impediment to your exercise of the Ministry that you will not observe what the Law requireth that now you should come in before the 24. of August and receive Ordination by a Bishop And let not onely what I have said prevaile with you but be pleased to consider that to be ordained by Bishops is in it self so lawful that Mr. John Ball is very positive in his Affirmation part 1. pag. 95. If they be not lawful Ministers who receive their Ordination from Biships the Church of God throughout the World hath been destitute of lawful Ministers for the space of this fourteen or fifteen hundred years which the Non-conformists will never affirm Here take notice I pray you of what is affirmed by this Worthy person viz. First that they which receive Ordination from Bishops are lawful Ministers Secondly that Ordination by Bishops hath been in the Church for the space of this fourteen or fifteen hundred years Thirdly that the Non-conformists did then never affirm that in all this time the Church of God had been destitute of lawful Ministers though ordained by Bishops Sect. 15. And surely these things considered must needs quicken you to come in and receive Ordination according to the Act for Uniformity For if Ordination by Bishops hath been in the Church of God of so long standing and is of such Antiquity it must needs follow that Ordination by Presbyters alone in a classis must need bee an Innovation in the Church especially considering the judgement of St. Jerom in his Epist ad Euagrium who speaking of Ordination debars a Presbyter from it saith he Quid facit Episcopus quod Presbyter non faciat exceptâ Ordinatione Mark the moode is potential he may not meddle with Ordination without a Bishop And therefore the best way for Ministers to be most completely ordained in my poor judgement is to come in and b● ordained by Bishops though ordained before by Presbyters especially considering that they are now called upon by the Law of the Land so to do and the thing so lawful in it self as you have heard

I shall but offer to your consideration as a motive to this work what you will find propounded by Mr. Baxter though by him there used to another purpose in his Five Disput pag. 4. after a worthy commendation of some of the Bishops So eminent in Gods graces and gifts that their names will be precious whilst Christ hath in England a reformed Church besides the godliness of their lives and painful preaching One Jewell one Usher one Davenant hath done so much against the Romain usurpers as they will never claw it off them o the last Sect. 16. Saith he that which I offer as a great incouragement to Episcopal Ordination and Subscription pag. 4. Moreoven who knoweth not that most of the godly able Ministers of England since the Reformation did judge Epscopacy some of them lawful and some of them most fit for the Non-conformists were but few and that even before these late troubles and wars c. The most through the Land did subscribe and conform to Episcopal Government as a thing not contrary to the Word of God so that it is very evident that it is very consistent with a godly life to judge Episcopacy lawful and fit or else we should not have had so many hundred leanred and godly men of that mind Observe here if it bevery evident that it is very consistent with a godly life to judge Episcopacy lawful and fit which are two of the most considerable qualifications that can be in any Government either of Church or State Be perswaded now laying aside our prejudices and perplexing fears to become of the same mind with those many hundred of godly and learned men that did judge Episcopacy to be lawful and fit eve● for us who are under a mixed Monarchical Government Especially l●ying this close to our hearts which Mr. Baxter saith It is consistent with a godly life so to judge which will not onely keep us from judging others who are of that perswasion but may also very much perswade all pious and peaceable spirits to be of their mind who judging Episcopacy to be lawful did receive Ordination by Bishops And not onely by their example be perswaded to receive Ordination from Bishops as they did but also to subscribe to the 39. Articles according to the Act. Mr. B●xter here tells the Non conformists were but few That most throughout the Land did subscribe and conform to Episcopal Government as a thing not contrary to the Word of God And will you now be singular again by your Non-conformity and Non-subscription I beseech you be pleased to what I have in the former discourse spoken by way of argument for subscription consider seriously what you will find written by Dr. John Burges in his Defence of the three Innocent Ceremonies one that after some years deprivation for Non-conformity after some years practice of Physick though he found it his best imployment for profit yet returned to the Ministry subscribed and writ in the defence of conformity I say his whole Book may be of great use in this juncture of time especially what he writes about Subscription pag. 23. of his book To all which be pleased to consider of the quotation out of Mr. Baxter it being such a passage in my weak judgement that whatever may seem to be said in the Five Disput. to the contrary yet there is so much truth therein as may engage all that love the truth and peace after all our divisions and sore discords which as Mr. Baxter saith are not about matter of Doctrine but of modes of Wership c. to come to settlement And in order hereunto be perswaded to come in and receive Ordination from the Bishop though ordained before by Presbyters as being the way to make your Ordination the more valid and complete and thereby to continue you still in the Ministry CHAP. XVI That for our Ministers to receive Ordination by Bishops though ordained before by Presbyters will not conclude the Reformed Churches that have no Episcopal Ordination to have no true Ministers and consequently to be no true Churches Section 1. BUt it may be objected That to receive Ordination from Bishops by those that have been ordained by the Presbytery without Bishops will make us to yield not onely that our Ordination is invalid but also that the Reformed Churches in France and that other Churches beyond Sea that have no Episcopal Ordination have not true Ministers amongst them and consequently are not true Churches of Christ c. To this may be answered That the case in England and in France and other Reformed Churches is not alike most of the aforesaid Churches especially in France and Germany are under persecution and that may be said of them which I find in a Letter of E. M. to Mr. Baxter printed before his Disputation about Ordination which to the said E. M. was given in answer to an objection somewhat of the same tendency The Churches in those places were very much under a cloud being persecuted and had not liberty to settle Diocesan Episcopacy in that glory which the Apostolical Institution aimed at and that the Church was then what it could be and not what it would be Sect. 2. I say this is the case of the Churches in France they being under a Prince that professeth the Roman Religion and in a state of Adversity Their being without Episcopal Ordination doth not null or make void their Ordination of Ministers without them the want of Bishops having not been through their own occasion having never put down any or induced others by vows and other violences so to do And therefore they have been acknowledged by the Church of England to be their Sister-Churches and so have the Belgick Churches also who therefore sent over some from this Church to the Synod at Dort which was a great owning of them And how much even in Holland they inclined to our Church-government if the Government by States did not hinder it I find by an Attestation published 1626. avowing that the Discipline of the Church of England was not impeached by the Synod of Dort pag. 6. the Attestators also saying That in our private converse with the most eminent of the Ministers there we found divers times upon occasion of our declaring unto them the order and manner of our Church-government that they were more ready to deplore then defend their own estate and wished to be made like the flourishing Church of England But besides what is reported of the Belgick Churches I will give a taste of the spirits of the French by what I find in Zanchius thes de vera reformand Ecclesiae ration Qui universalis omnium locorum temporum usque ad hanc aetatem usum sensum Ecclesiae certum habet sequiturque interpretem facilè intelligit diversos gradus Presbyterorum Episooporum in gubernatione ecclesiastica esse secundum Dei verbum srmper fuisse proinde ubi vigent non esse abolendos ubicunque iniquitas