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A36591 Innocency and truth vindicated, or, A sober reply to Mr. Will's answer to a late treatise of baptisme wherein the authorities and antiquities for believers and against infants baptism are defended ... : with a brief answer to Mr. Blinmans essay / by Henry Danvers. Danvers, Henry, d. 1687. 1675 (1675) Wing D223; ESTC R8412 108,224 202

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their Towns and Castles disposess their Princes and Bishops and possess themselves of their Revenues Civil and Ecclesiastical For my part I am yet to learn from what ever I read where the difference lay in the attempts only that those Cantons had better Conduct and prospered and the other had neither Conduct nor Success but miscarried in both which if the other had done as much obloque might have befallen them And you 'l find some Protestant Writers as well as Popish to charge as much iregularity on the undertaking of the one as of the other who will tell you that the Boores in Germany and they of Munster might as warrantably turn out their Princes Bishops and Canons and posess themselves of their Revenues as Geneva and those of Helvetia had done And we are not ignorant of the several attempts that the City of Munster hath made within a few years since wholly Popish to deliver themselves from the Exactions of their Bishop which by the Bishop hath been esteemed no less seditious and rebellious than the former Thirdly as to the Originall of the Munster commotion though he grants the turning out of the Bishops Cannons c. out of the Churches and the City also by the Reformists Yet tells me I speak falsely in saying that Spanhamius tells us that it came to Arms betwixt the Bishops and City who saith the quite contrary and tells us as he saith that it never came to blows That the first stirrs in Munster was about Protestant Reformation To which I say my words you 'l find are these viz. That Sphanhemius and Osiander tells us that the first stirrs in the City was about the Protestant Reformation the Senate siding with Rotman and others of the Ministers against the Papists and their Bishops that opposed them to Arms and this before the coming in of John a Leyden Mr. Wills very partial I say Spanhemius and Osiander tells us c. He takes notice only of the former and it is manifest they both of them speak of those first stirs about turning out the Bishops Canons Spanhemius it is true speaks very briefly of the difference and Agreement that happened betwixt the Bishop and Senate thereupon Though I must tell Mr. Wills it is his mistake to say that Spanhemius denies it came to Armies for he saith no such thing But Osiander from Sleyden goes to particulars And tells us how the Bishop drew a Force down to a Neighbouring Village called Telgeto stopt and streightned them of provision for so saith Sleiden And sent messengers to command the restoring of the Canons to their Churches again and the turning out of Town the new Preachers But how that instead thereof they detayned his Messengers and sent a party out of the Town in the Night and surprized and brought away Prisoners diverse of the Bishops men and that he himself had been taken also if he had not gone out of his Quarters that Night before And if this could be done without Arms and Blows let all Men judge and whether the reproof doth not more properly belong to Mr. Wills than my self therein Fourthly As to the Suspition why I supposed there was cause to doubt of the truth of those monsterous Villanyes acted in their Communities in the Latter part of the Siege as mentioned by their malitious enemies the Papists and many of their inveterate enemies the Protestants He saith it is extreamly scandalous in two respects First for calling into Question the matter of fact especially as reported by the Protestants who were not as he saith inveterate enemies but very loving friends to them And Secondly For endeavouring to palliate such horrid actings of the Anabaptists a thing never done by any Why cause to suspect some of the reports about Munster In answer whereto I say let it in the first place be remembred that as to the first part of my suspicion why those horrid enormities reported might be scandals viz. From the reports given them by the lying Papists who speak as bad things of Calvin and Luther themselves and of the Waldenses before them as you have heard he seems silently to own first from Papists But his great offence lies against me for questioning the truth of what is said thereof by the Protestant Writers such as Sleiden Osiander Spanhemius Zwinglius c. who were as he saith most faithful historians grave Divines and who gave punctuallly the Circumstances of time place opinions c. And from whom he transcribes the Story And that my injurious reflection upon them as though they were the Anabaptists inveterate enemies and that they were willing to take up and improve such reports to blast not only the whole party of the Anabaptists but the r Principles also against whom they contended savour in me as he saith of no less then the ebullition of a Malicious or at best a prejudiciall Spirit Secondly Several T●o estnts To which I say how shall we be assured that these later writers did not make their Reports from the Popish Writers For Sleiden wrote not his comentary till 1555. about twenty years after the fact and Osiander only transcribes from Sleiden And as for Spanhemius he wrote not till eighty years after Sleiden upon whom Mr. Wills lays the greatest stress and who appears to be a very partial and unfaithful writer respecting the Anabaptists in that his Historicall Narration printed 1646. First falsely affirming that Stork Stubner and Muntzer were the beginners of Anabaptism and who First as his own words express helpt the world to be delivered of that Sect. Secondly in his malicious charging the Anabaptists with all the old Heresies that he could reckon up in any old Author viz. That they were Manichaeans Andians Anthropomorphites Trithcits Samosatenians Noetians and Sabellians Apollinarists and Prodianites Anastations Nestorians Eutichians Corinthians Photinians Oregenianss Catharists Novatians Donatists Parmenians Marcionites Eunomians Montanists Nicolaites Basilidians Cataphrigians Gnosticks Pelagians and Socinians All which Opinions he enlargeth upon and applies to them then which what could savour more of the ebullition of a Malicious Spirit And as for Zwinglius Zwinglius cruel Enemy with the Anabaptists he could give no account of his business who dyed five years before it viz 1531. But as to this great friendsship Mr. Wills boasts of By the gentleness and tenderness that he shewed to those anabaptists that fell off from his Church whom he treated not as Enemies but as his intimate friends as he tells us I shall give you some particular account wherein you will find what is that Kindness and Gentleness it seems we might expect from Mr. Wills if it was in his power It is true at first Zwinglius was a great Friend and Companion of the Anabaptists and a great favourer of their opinion in opposition to that of Infants Baptism as Treat Bapt. p 262. But afterwards who more Cruel amongst the Bloody Papists themselves than he as you have a