heretikes namely the Grecians church all other churches of Asia and Aphrica which vnto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholike nor her authoritie to be lawefull Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither hath confuted those that are heretikes in deed nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretikes if you be a good as your worde you recant The fiueth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointement Discipline vpon offendors in all degrees ONely the Church of Christ by Christes appointement hath exercised true discipline vpon offendors Although by meanes of persecution she could not alwayes practise the same as she would 2 And for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and Canons Ecclesiasticall with Excommunication Degradation suspension and such like THe Church of Christ only hath had lawful authority to exercise discipline but as it is said before she hath not continually practised the same because she could not being hindered by persecution and dispersion Concerning excommunication she hath practised it according to the word of God and against such offendors as the scripture iudgeth worthy of that seuere punishment As for degradation and suspension it may be doubted what you meane by them If you vnderstand by degradation that such persons as the Church hath tried vnmeet either for doctrine or manners to execute the office of preaching and ministring the sacraments she hath displaced and reiected from that charge she hath also practised drgradation And if you meane by suspension that when the accusation of a mans doctrine or life was vncerteine that she hath willed him to cease from executing his office vntill his cause were tried either good or euill she hath also vsed suspension but if by degradation and suspension you meane those foolish and wicked ceremonies which the popish church now vseth and so termeth I deny that euer the true Church of Christ had to do with such degradations and suspensions 3 Proue me this geere to procede from Protestants or from any other Church than the Catholike and I recant IT is proued before that true discipline belongeth to the true Church wherof we are a part which Church is sufficiently proued to be the spouse of Christ because she is ruled in all thinges by his onely voice And therefore all congregations of heretikes which departe from the true worde of God though they take vpon them to exercise discipline by excommunication or otherwise it is not to be regarded and lest of all the Popish church where remaineth nothing of discipline and excommunication but the very names for what call you popish discipline is not that it which they vse in Lent whisking men on the heades and women on the handes with white roddes which they them selues call discipline Or is it the seuere punishment that they vse against offendors by excommunication suspension interdighting c. First it is manifest they haue no excommunication by Christes appointment for neither it is executed by the persons appointed by Gods worde nor against such offendors only as God his word appointeth for wheras our Sauiour Christ appointeth the order of that discipline to the Congregation of such as are wise godly and carefull of mens health which first shal labor by fatherly admonition and wholesome exhortation to bring the offendors to repentance whome if they refuse to heare they are to be reputed for hethens and publicanes the Pope contrariwise referreth the same to profane and vnreligious officers which are more desirous to gaine the fees of absolution than by bringing the party to repentance to saue him from excommunication Moreouer whereas by Gods worde excommunication is the last and most greuous punishment that the Church can enioyne against any of whom there is any hope of saluation and therefore ought not to be practised but for haynous offences the Popish church maketh it serue for euery trifling matter yea for pettie debts and all then commeth in interdightings suspensions of places as churches and townes yea whole realmes for one mans faulte what likelinesse hath this vnto the discipline of Christes church set forth in the scriptures and practised by the fathers with what face can you Papistes affirme they haue discipline in their Church whē all penaunces for most horrible offences may be bought out for money and an open market thereof set vp at Rome with the prices rated what men must pay for euery thing that they buye as absolution for him that hath killed his father or mother brother sister or wife Turones 4. Ducat 1. Ca. line 5.8 For an heretike before he haue abiured 36. Turones and 9. ducates For a witche 6. Turones 2. ducates For a priest that is a Sodomite or hath lyen with brute beastes 36. Turones 9. ducates For a nonne that hath bene a common whore both within and without her Abby with dispensation that she may be able to receiue any dignitie in her order yea to be Abbesse 36. Turones 9. ducates And so for all other offences with dispensations inhibitions rehabilities licences relaxations commutations confirmation perinde Valeres Marcamas and the deuill and all for money wherefore except you be to impudent to acknowledge this to be Christian discipline be as good as your promise and recant The sixth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe from what Church did all the solemne ceremonies and obseruations all festiuall dayes all fastes all distinctions and varieties of seruice by diuersities of seasons and times of the yeare proceede FIrst you must vnderstande that we detest and abhorre all your beggarly ceremonies which you counte holy and solemne obseruations for we know that God is not to be worshipped with such thinges but that the true worshippers must worship him in spirit veritie Iohn 4. And seeing we know God or rather are knowen of him we will not regarde the weake and beggarly elementes because they are destitute of God his worde which onely i◠able to geue them strength and estimation as for your festiuities in the honour of creatures we doe likewise abhorre them ▪ we honour the Sainctes as S. Augustine sayeth for imitation but we do not worship them for Religion De vera Religione cap. 55. Where he also saith Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute We honor them with loue and not with seruice And as he doth often affirme that it is Idolatry to builde churches in the honour of Sainctes so is it as great Idolatry to institute festiuall dayes in the fauour of the same Sainctes As for the festiuall dayes that were vsed in the primitiue Church although they might haue bene omitted without any hurt of Christian Religion yet were they not kept in the honour of creatures as they are of the Papistes but only for the memorie of the Martyrs and other Saincts that their good life might be followed Your fastes are also abhominable for they are nothing else but abstinence from meates created of God to be receiued with
sermon in such sorte that the common people might vnderstand it and in the 45. Canon they decreed that euery Christian shoulde learne the Creede and the Lorde his prayer Et qui aliter non potuerit vel in sua lingua hoc discat that is And he that can not yet let him learne it in his owne tongue Whereby they declare that they desier to reteine the latine tongue still but rather than the people shoulde be ignorant they commande them to learne their prayers and beleefe in their mother tongue Also by the 43. Canon wherein they iudge that no preeste can saye Masse alone it appeareth that the people commonly vnderstood the latine seruice for they aske how he shoulde saye Dominus vobiscum and admonish the people to lifte vp their heartes and diuers like sayinges where there is none by him but him selfe Nowe if the people vnderstoode not these sayinges it were all one whether they were present or absent Also in the Councell of Rhenes holden in Fraunce about the same time the like decree was made cap. 15. that bishops studie to preache sermons and homelies of the holy fathers so that all men maye vnderstand according to the property of their tongue Finally in the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the third Anno Dom. 1215. in which Councell transubstantiation was first established the 9. chapter it was plainely decreed that forasmuch as within one citie and diocesse people of diuers languages be mingled together hauing vnder one Faith diuers rites and maners we streightly commande that the bishops of such cities and diocesses prouide able men which according to the diuersitie of their rites and languages celebrate vnto them the diuine seruice and minister the sacramentes instructing them both by worde and example Hereby it appeareth that when the latine tongue was either almost or altogether growen out of the common peoples vnderstandings order was taken that common prayers should be sayed and sacramentes ministred in the mother tongue of euery nation But the bishops which shoulde haue seene it put in execution either negligently omitted it or willingly refused to doe it because it was more for their profit to kepe the people in blinde ignorance So thus I haue shewed that sodenly the tongue of common prayer was not altered 10 Tell me what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope by whome these thinges were wrought vpon what occasion this marueillous mutation was made WHo can tell the originall of euery blind custome and peuish tradition of euery olde error and foolish fashion it is sufficient to shew that these thinges haue no grounde in the scripture of God they were not taught by Christ and his Apostles nor receiued in the church that followed immediatly after them and then we are bolde to say with Tertullian This preiudice there is against all heresies how soeuer they came vp or when soeuer they sprange vp That is true that was first and that is false that is latter therefore from the beginning it was not vsed to praye for the deade nor to the deade from the beginning common prayer was not in an vnknowen tongue Wherefore prayer for the deade and to the deade with prayer in a strange tongue are false when soeuer they beganne or how long soeuer they continued 11 VVho preached against it what historie maketh mention of it who of all your Pastors preached against it was God his Church so voide of the spirit of Trueth and strength that euen then when it most florished it had none that durst open against â—uch corruption of religion as it entred in and when it might soone haue bene repressed BEfore you demande what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and whether it came in sodenly and as though we shoulde aunswere that it came in sodainely you demande who preached against it c. This is to fight with your owne shadowe for we say not that it came in sodainely but that it entred by small degrees at the first and therefore was lesse espied by the true Pastors especially being earnestly occupied against great heresies and open aduersaries that sought to beate downe the cheefe foundations of Christian faith as the Valentinians Marcionistes Manichees Arrians Sabellians and such like monsters So when Satan had gotten in one foote by such craftie pollitie he neuer rested vntill he had thrust in his whole bodie with the power of Antichrist 12 If it coulde not shew me then what yeare of the Lorde this mutation was made and who of all the true preachers did with stand this doctrine SO often as you demande one thinge so often must I aunswere after one sorte this mutation was not all in one yeare nor in one hundreth yeares nor in one thousand of yeares for transubstantiation no small article of your religion was not decreed vntill the yeare of God 1215. what preachers haue withstoode your doctrine at diuers times are declared before in the aunswere to the 8. Article 2. demande 13 Or note the name of him that euer first preached any article of our doctrine and if we note you not by their names euery one of your Capitaines and the seuerall errors that they tought and the time and the yeare when they arose against the former receyued trueth and the Councells in which they were orderly condemned if I saye this can be done of your side towarde vs or if we doe it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recant I Haue noted in the answere to the 6. article 3. demande the names of diuers heretikes that first preached diuers articles of your religion and further I note vnto you Pelagius and Coelestius which tought that free will without grace coulde doe somewhat towardes eternall saluation and that grace was geuen according to merite which article you teach also with culler of a distinction De congruo condigno which is a meere cauill for God is as much bounde vnto congruitie as to dignitie or worthinesse and as he can doe nothing against worthinesse no more can he doe any thing against congruitie which is a kinde of Equitie And whereas you bragge to note vnto vs euery one of our Capitaines c. except you note vnto vs the Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euangelistes and Christ himselfe you shall neuer be able to performe that you promise for we teache nothing but the eternall trueth of God wherefore we refuse not to be counted heretikes if you can proue that we holde any one article of faith contrarie to the scripture you may perchaunce note the names of them that preaching the trueth of our doctrine against your receyued errors were accounted of the world for heretikes but you must proue that their opinions are contrarie to the worde of God or els all your labour is in vaine we confesse also that some articles of our doctrine were taught by heretikes as there was neuer no heresie which had not many thinges common with true Religion but yet in
of the Arrians and being brought vp by them had learned that article to beleue the Catholike church which the Arrians would expound to be them selues if afterward by God his helpe this man vnderstood that the church of the Arrians was not the catholike church as he was taught it was but that Athanasius and a few other that were banished and persecuted were the true Catholike church he was bounde to leaue the Arrians commonly called the church and to ioyne him selfe with the secret banished hidde and persecuted church of Christ. But as for your Popish church in that time of blindenesse and error taught not the people that article nor any other but kept them backe from the knowledge as well of that article as of all other thinges that were necessary to their saluation for you taught them nothing els but to pronounce and that full il fauoredly like popingeys certeine latine wordes which they vnderstoode no more than stockes or stones So that the people had no instruction of you no not of the name of God in many places but that they receiued by vncertaine talke of their parentes as it were from hande to hande for how many thousand parishes are there in Englande that within these 60. yeares woulde declare that they neuer hearde sermon in their life As for that they hearde of their seruice they learned as much of it as of the ringing of their belles which was a sounde without vnderstanding Therefore you may be ashamed to speake of teaching the people their belefe and all thinges necessary for saluation when you haue counted it heresie to learne their creede in English or to reade the scripture in English in which is conteined all thing necessary to be knowen for euerlasting saluation Finally because you requier me to shew you that the Christian people of those dayes were bounde to beleue any other church than that which taught them the article of the church and baptised them I trow I will so shew it you that for both your eares you dare not deny it how saye you The Christian people of the Greeke church which were taught by the Greeke church that article of the church and by the same Greeke church were baptised whether ought they to beleue any other church but the Greeke church If you say no then you acknowledge the Greeke church to be the true church which denieth the Popes authoritie if you saye yea Then you are welcome home you recant The 22. article although it be very confuse yet it conteyneth in effect 3. demandes 1 I aske also whether any man for the space of that 1000. yeres of blindenes could be saued out of that secrete and small Church which they say was the true Church if they aunswer me there might be some saued with our Sacraments and in the Communion or fellowship of the Papistes out of the Protestants Church then there was a way to heauen out of Gods Church if they say that none could be saued by our Sacraments out of their close Church then all men yong and old perished for those yeares without any hope of mercy because they could not vnite them selues and be incorporate to that company and Congregation whereof they neuer neither hearde nor coulde by any meanes surmise Therefore let any man aliue proue vnto me that either any man could out of the true Church be saued NO man aliue that knoweth what the true Church meaneth will say that any man can be saued out of the true Church for he that is not a member of the body of Christ caÌ„ by no meanes receiue any benefit of Christ to his saluation Therefore how long so euer the true Church were hidden whether it were a thousand yeres as you beare men in hand that we should say or two thousand yeares it is not materiall this is certeyne that out of this Church none could be saued and though you count it smal as in deede in respect of the world it is but a small flocke and fewe are elected and fewe finde the streit gate of life Luke 12. Matth. 7. 20. yet is the number of it greater then mans eye commonly can discerne As when Elias thought that he only had bene left alone of the true Church God answered that he had yet reserued 7000. that neuer bowed their knee to Baal 1. Reg. 19. And as Esay declareth when the people shoulde be almost all destroyed yet a remnant should be saued which though it seemed to be small yet it should ouerflow and fill all the world with righteousnes Esa. 10. and though it shal be like a gathering of grapes when vintage is ended or the shaking of an oliue tree when men thinke they haue left noâ—hing vppon it yet there be two or three in the toppe amonge the boughes foure or fiue vnder the leaues in the highest braÌ„ches Esay 17. 24. 2 Or that any other company could be knowne for the true and onely Church but our common Catholike societie THe true Catholike Church was neuer so secrete or hidden but it might be knowne of all those that had eyes to see it whose hartes were lightened with the spirite of God and were enstructed by the worde of God that they might vnderstande the trueth and knowe the spouse of Christ from the common strompet of Antichrist 3 Or that all men were damned for a thousand yeares togither because they coulde not finde nor surmise of any other Church then that which practiseth all holy functions which Christ left for our saluation in the world and I recant WE take not vpon vs to medle with God his iudgments whom he condemneth for what causes further then the word of God teacheth vs namely that as many as haue not beleued in the onely sonne of God are condemned for their vnbeliefe other secret causes we remit to his secrete counsell and knowledge And wheras you say that the popish church practiseth all holy functions that Christ left for the saluation of his Church it is most false for first you doe not preach remission of sinnes in the bloode of Christ onely for either you preach not all or else you preach remission of sinnes in any thing rather then the onely merites of Christ as in mens owne merites workes of supererogation pardons masses beggarly ceremonies as holy water auriculer confession c. Secondly you minister not the Sacraments purely according to Christ his institution but either corrupt and defile them with mans traditioÌ„s as you do Baptisme or else cleane chauÌ„ge the vse of them as in the Lordes Supper which you make a Sacrifice an idoll a Priestes breakfast and defraude the people of the one halfe of the sacrament as though you were wiser then he that instituted it in both kindes Thirdly discipline you haue conuerted into tyranny and couetousnes reteyning nothing but the name of it alone Wherefore seeing you exercise no holy function after Christ his institution but cleane contrary to the same and doe
obstinately defend the filthy whore of babylon against the cleare light of the Gospell the true spouse of Christ ye shall be damned except you recant The 23. article conteyneth 2. demandes 1 Againe shew me any Church or imagin if you can by good reason a church of Christ in which there is no gathering together for preaching no spirite of prophesying no rodde of correction no order of ministring nor any spirituall functioÌ„ that can be named proue me that there should be a true Church for a thousand yeares together and lacked all these thinges YOu would faine haue a great nombre of Articles and therefore you bring in one matter often times in diuers phrase of words that it might seeme a new matter when it hath bene vttered twise or thrise before as this Article is conteined before in the 5.8 and 9. Articles where you shall finde it more largely aunswered But let vs see what this strange demande requireth we must shew him a church or els imagine by good reason a church of Christ without preaching ministring and discipline for a thousand yeares together Although we will not graunt that it hath so longe continued without these exercises yet because you geue vs leaue to imagine we can imagine that it may as well continue without publike preaching ministring and discipline for a thousand yeares as it did for three hundred yeares before Constantine But you will say there was preaching ministring and correcting though it were not knowen to the tyrantes and persecutors so say I vnto you for that thousand yeres there was gathering together for preaching ministring and correcting though the Pope and his persecuting Prelates coulde not alwayes see it nor come to the knowledge of it for if they had once intelligence of it they smarted for it as is knowen by the stories of the Waldenses Bohemians c. Furthermore continuall exercise of preaching ministring of sacramentes and executing of discipline are notes of a quiet and peaceable Congregation not of a dispersed persecuted and disquieted Church How often doth S. Cyprian coÌ„plaine that the brethren could not be gathered togither for executing of discipline whereby it is certeyne that likewise they coulde not be gathered togither for other exercises Therefore the intermission of these exercises in a persecuted Church doth not proue the same to be no true Church But where so euer there be two or three gathered togither in the name of Christ there is he in the middest of them But whereas you require the spirite of prophesie except you meane the gift of interpreting the Scriptures the Church in the most quiet and flourishing state may want the spirite of shewing things to come as well as the giftes of tongues healing c. 2 And withall that there was an other vntrue Church which for those many dayes onely practised to the saluation of many all these offices and geue me a good reason why this Church that alwayes hath had these thinges should be a false Church and the other that wanted them to be a true Church and I recant WE vtterly denye that beside the true Church there was an vntrue church that practised those offices to the saluation of any man for once againe I tell you you haue neither the preaching of the word nor ministring of Sacraments nor execution of discipline according to the truth of God his institution but either altogither changed or else greatly corrupted And whereas you say that the popish church onely hath practised these offices I aske you againe whether the Greeke Church be a parte of your Church and whether the Papistes in England be a part of your Church The Grecians you will say are not but the English Papistes are Then haue I founde out by your owne iudgement the Church of the Grecians practising these offices being an vntrue church the church of the English Papistes not practising the same yet graunted of you to be a true Church Therfore you are bound to recant The 24. article conteyneth 10. demandes 1 Moreouer let any man shew how that Church can be the piller of truth which durst not for a thousand yeares clayme either preaching of Gods word or ministring of SacrameÌ„ts or shew her selfe against falshood or superstition AS the number of your articles doth draw to an ende so your matter is farre spent and therefore to make vppe your number you must repete one thing twise This demaund is conteined before in the 11. and 12. articles where also it is fully aunswered Notwithstanding seeing it commeth againe it shal be briefly aunswered in this place The Church is not called the piller of truth because it should stand alwayes in the sight of the world for then the defection which S. Paule speaketh of could not haue come neither should the Church flie into the wildernes as was declared to S. Iohn But it is called the piller of truth because that where so euer the Church is either visible or inuisible there is the truth So though the Church were hidde a certeyne time in the wildernes yet there was trueth with the Church You seeme to be a good Arithmetrician for no number soundeth in your mouth but a thousand Neuerthelesse how long so euer it was the piller of truth decayed not And as God gaue his spirite diuers times was bold to chalenge preaching and ministring of the Sacraments yea and so boldly that it cost many of the chalengers their liues As Berengarius Bruno Marsilus de Pandua Ioannes de Gaudano Ioannes VVickleffe VValdo Ioannes Hus Ieronymus de Praga c. Thus it is manifest that the Church hath diuers tymes chalenged her right and withstood falshood 2 Let any man shew that all giftes of the spirite and functions of the holy Ghost haue bene taken from her a thousand yeares togither and onely practised to the peoples vse by an aduouterous Church THere is no man can shew this for it is a false lye that all giftes of the spirite function of the holy Ghost were either taken from the true Church or giuen to the adulterous church And this hath bene shewed more then once or twise before 3 Let it be declared how the gates of hell haue not preuailed or Christes promise and warrant for her not bene voyd frustrate if a bastard Church exercising idolatry as they say hath spoyled the true Church of all holy actions and the whole gouernment and the whole name of Christianitie almost euer since Christes tyme. THe Deuill hath bent all his force and ordinance he hath armed all the power of darkenesse he stirred vp â—yrantes heretikes Popes Saracenes and Turkes to destroye the Church the dragon that olde serpent Satanas the Deuill stoode before the woman to deuoure her childe he persecuted her into the wildernesse he cast out of his mouthe a great riuer to cary her awaie he made warre with the rest of her seede that keepe the commaundementes of god Apoc. 12. but yet in despight of the deuill the
for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande fower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was bidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching â—xhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. Thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commoÌ„ consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preachâ—ng the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall dishes but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutioÌ„ she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers
lye in euery tryfling matter you are worthy to be deceiued And that you may see I doe him no wrong see I pray you how shamefully he lyeth in this matter whereof he maketh such impudent assurance He sayth the same men which brought in the fayth brought in the same order of seruice and planted the same supplication wherein they haue vniformly continued c take away the same order and ouerthrow the fayth which they taught But who doth not know that Chrysostom Basill Ambrose Gregory which he nameth to be the first auctors of those orders of seruice formes of supplication which before he commended were not the first that brought in the fayth into Cappadocia Thracia or Italy But the Apostles them selues and that those Churches continued more then 300. yeares with other formes of publike prayers and celebration of the sacraments before these men were borne And where he sayth there was euer found in the celebration of the sacrament beside oblation of the host for the quicke and the deade both particularly and generally a solemne prayer for all departed in Christ You must take it as the rest of his assertions which be euer more generall then their probations But to reproue his vanitie the order of prayers and administration of the holy misteries described by Iustinus Martyr in his second Apologie and of Tertullian also in his Apologetico doe sufficiently declare what was the vsage of the Christians in those purer times And although there be not set forth vnto them what forme of wordes they vsed in their liturgie yet is it expressed for whom and what they prayed Oramus etiam sayth Tertullian pro Imperatoribus pro ministris eorum potestatibus saeculi pro rerum quiete pro mora finis We pray also for the Emperours for their ministers and the powers of this world for the quiet state of thinges for stay of the end Likewise he sheweth to whom they made their prayers and what was the chiefest sacrifice that they did offer Haec ab alio orare non possum quam à quo sciam me coÌ„secuturum quoniam ipse est qui solus praestat ego sum cui impetrare debetur famulus eius qui eum solum obseruo qui ei offero opimam maiorem hostiam quam ipse maÌ„dauit orationem de carne pudica de anima innocente de spiritu sancto profatam These thinges I can not require of any other but of him of whom I know I shall obteyne For it is he alone which graunteth and I am he which should obteyne being his seruaunt which worship him onely which offer vnto him that principall and great sacrifice which he him selfe commaunded namely prayer proceding out of a chast body out of a harmeles soule and from the holy spirite This he speaketh comparing the prayers and sacrifice of the Christians with the prayers and sacrifices of the Gentiles But that I may returne to M. Allen which referreth the institution of prayer and sacrifice for the deade to Christ at his last supper to the secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost to the faithfull deliuery of the Apostles and the constant continuance of all nations Of whom will he be a feard to lye when he fathereth such a blasphemy vpon the Apostles vpon the holy Ghost and vpon Christ him selfe But let vs consider your Sorites Christ you say no doubt did institute it where is the warraunt of this vndouted institution you aunswere secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost howe come we to the knowledge of this secrete suggestion By tradition of the Apostles who is witnesse that this is the tradition of the Apostles Tertullian Cyprian Augustine Ieronym and a great many more But if it be lawfull for me once to pose the Papistes as you do often the Protestants I would learne why the Lord would not haue this doubtlesse institution and as you take it the most necessary vse of the sacrament plainly or at least wise obscurely set foâ—th by Matthew Marke Luke or Paule which all haue set forth the story of the action of Christ the institution of the sacrament and the ende or vse of the same If it were not meete at all to be put in writing why was it disclosed by Tertullian Cyprian Augustine c. If it were meete to be put in writing why were not those chosen Scribes Matthew Marke Luke Paule worthy of all credit rather appoynted for it then Tertullian Cyprian Augustine and such as you name But against this counterfect institution secrete suggestion and fayned tradition S. Paule cryeâ—h with open mouth to the Corinthians 1. Cor. 11. That which I deliuered vnto vnto you I receiued of the Lorde that the Lord Iesus the same night c. In which wordes he declareth without couler or couerture what was the true institution of Christ of what witnesse he receiued it with what fidelitie he deliuered it what the sacrament is and what is the right vse of it to condemne all maner of abuses what so euer may rise either to corrupt this onely true substance and onely right order of ministration or to peruert this onely right vse and proper ende thereof I knowe the Papistes will flie to those wordes of the Apostle the rest I will set in order when I come but that is so manifest to be spoken of matters of externall comlines and not of doctrine of the sacrament as prayers and sacrifices that no man which vnderstandeth what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie can doubt or make any questioÌ„ of it Now touching the credit and worthynesse of these whom he so highly extolleth as I woulde not goe about to diminish it if they were to be compared with vs so when they are opposed against the manifest worde of God and the credit of the holy Apostles the instruments of the holy Ghost there is no cause that we shoulde be caried awaye with them But the controuersie is not as M. Allen sayth of the authoritie of the scriptures in this matter but of the true meaning of them which it is more like that they being such men then we so farre inferior to them should knowe I aunswere they them selues for the most parte confesse that prayer and oblation for the deade is not taken at all out of the scriptures as Tertullian Augustine and other the rest that woulde seeke confirmation in the scriptures as Chrysostome and such like doe so manifestly wrest them to their purpose that the Papistes them selues are ashamed to vse those textes of scripture for their proofes And as for such places as the later Papistes woulde violently draw vnto their error they haue fewe or none of the olde approued writers which though they allow their error yet that so interpret them as the place 1. Cor. 3. and Matth. 5. And what a shamelesse creature is M. Allen to say the controuersie is about the true meaning of the scripture when he him selfe in the next leafe before affirmeth that prayer and