the matter thou undertakes to vindicate for as to the appointment or at least approvement of God concerning the sanctuary tabernacle temple and synagogues we do not deny but Christ is come the fulfiller of all figures and he saith neither at Jerusalem nor at this mountain shall men worship the Father but the true worshippers shall worship him in spirit and truth and thou sayest it was but the ceremonial part that was abolished but thou may know that it was the very place in which their worship was performed in that dispensation for Christ said concerning the temple that there should not be left one stone upon another which should not be thrown down which thing came to passe so that the place once appointed of God was thrown down and he did not command that it should be set up again for a place of worship and the true worshippers that followed Christ they worshipped in the spirit and they was not bound to time place or person but as they was ordered in the spirit so they was instant to serve God and worship him without regarding either pâ—ace or time so that it may be understood that there was never any particular place appointed or approved of God since that time as a place set apart onely for a place of worship and as for those places which are now called Churches they were never set apart by divine appointment for any such service as is practised in them and therefore the hearts of such as waits to be revived and comforted with the refreshings of Gods presence must turn away from them and turn to the light of Christ within where the streams of life runs sweetly for God is no other way known in that place which thou would have to be a Church nor in that worship which is there observed but by manifesting himself against them and when thou comes to be truly awakned in thy conscience thou wilt know that neither thy Church worship or ministry are either appointed approved or ordained of God Thou sayest do you count it your priviledge your perfection to throw off Gods publick ordinances with an admiration of your silent and dumb congregations in private must it not needs argue saidst thou a very sleepy not to say a benummed and besotted conscience thus to throw away the wholesome milk of the word in a disdainful pet and yet never complain of the hunger and thirst of your souls Answ Our priviledge and perfection is in Christ whom God hath ordained to be our salvation and he gives us the milk of his word and feeds us with meat in due season and that is our food in silence by which we are kept fresh and living unto God whilest all false worshippers are asleep in the first Adam and benummed and besotted in the earthly nature where they have no sense nor feeling of the virtuous springs and our tongues are not our own nor our wills at liberty and yet the Gospel is unto us committed and in the word of life we publish the glad tydings of it and though we do not speak words yet we feel the presence of God with us and that satisfies our hunger and refreshes our thirst and he answers all our complainings in secret but thou wouldst have us complain to such as thee and to buy thy words for food and to receive them for satisfaction which we turn away from knowing it is but a dry brest in which there is no vertue at all Thou saist a Quaker once told thee he got more good by their silent meetings then ever he got by hearing the Ministers in publick Answ As to thy publick Ministery his words might be true yet who are sent of God and preaches the Gospel of God we do get much good by their publick Ministery for thereby we are informed into the life and power of God which in silent waiting upon him we taste and feel and all our fresh springs are in him Thou seist God ordains not our immediate addresse to Heaven we must live by faith and not by vision but he commands us to use ordinary means Answ God doth ordain our immediate addresse to heaven and that in the work of our faith and we live by it and have the holy visions of God opened in it and by this means we find comfort to our souls and whether would thou have people to make their addresse if not to Heaven would thou not have them addresse themselves upto Christ and is not Christ in Heaven and what faith would thou have them to live by and what means would thou have them to use if they must not addresse themselves to Heaven for true faith and means goes to Heaven and all that lives by the faith â—f â—he Son of God and uses those means that he appoints them 〈◊〉 aâ—dresse 〈◊〉 selves immediately to heaven and in all their distresses and afflictions they finde grace to help them in their need â—nd by this faith we live in the power of an endlesse life Thou sayest well however Sampsons foxes may have their heads looking divers ways yet they are joyned together with firebrands in their tails and howsoever those that desert the publick means may tend some of them to prophanenesse others to a schismatical not to say an heretical separation many heresies going currently for new lights yet sayest thou this is the firebrand or rather the Devils dead coal Answ We are gathered in the unity of the Spirit of God in which our faces are turned Sion-ward and looks all one way and after the manner which thou calls heresie so worship we the God of our Fathers and thy words belongs to thy self and the sons of Adam in the fall who are looking some to one thing and some to another and yet the firebrand joyns your tails with which you would burn up the fruitful field and consume Gods heritage from the earth and this is a coal of Cains nature which the Devil blows up sometimes into a heat and sometimes into a flame and so thou may read the next Chapter which is the third to be thy own state in which thou speaks of Cains going forth from the presence of the Lord and sayest They which voluntarily leave Gods instituted worship and his commanded ordinances put themselves into a wandering condition Answ Yes they do so and therefore it must needs follow that they that forsakes the will worships and vain worships and comes to Gods instituted worship in his Spirit that they come into a stayed and settled condition and so it is thou and old Adam sons in the fall that are in Cains countrey sometimes wandring after one invention sometimes after another and this is your worship which God never instituted but the children of light are in covenant with God and rests in peace In the fourth Chapter thou sayest the sons of men which are of a mixt nature partly spirit and partly body are by their very being determined both to time and place in their rendring
art pleading for stipends and tithes thy doctrine demonstrates thy principle and thy practice doth manifest that Christ never sent thee for none of his Ministers ever took stipends or tithes for their labour in the Gospel and therefore thou art found out of their way and practice for which cause thy ministry is denied Thou also hast directed a Preface to the Reader wherein thou sayest the main scope and design of thy present undertaking is to vindicate the publick worship of God and his sacred ordinances from that undervaluing contempt which hath been thrown upon them by Quakers c. Answ Thy scope and design and undertaking is for desolution and as for the Quakers they nâ—ither undervalue nor contemn the publick worship of God nor his sacred ordinances for they have not so learned Christ but thy undertaking is to vindicate those things which God hath not appointed nor ordained and such things we do deny but we worship God in the Spirit which is the publick worship for it is without limitation and it is thy worship which is private who creeps into a house made with hands and wouldst limit the holy One unto it to be worshipped and thus thou ravines about in thy own way and calls evil good and undertakes to vindicate it Thou sayest Hereticks are the greater foxes and the lesser foxes and hunting and taking of such are not only a noble recreation adaequate indeed for the vast ability of the most generously spirited Christians but also a very charitable undertaking for the Church of God in those that can but any way help forward so serviceable a design Answ Thou thirsts to have thy design promoted and so presents it to others as a noble recreation and a charitable undertaking for Christians but true Christians did never recreate themselves after that manner nor never were found in such an undertaking for Paul saith after some admonitions a Heretick is to be rejected if he refuse to hear but he doth not say hunt them and take them and destroy them and Paul was a good Christian but thou art promoting thy design against the innocent and under the name of foxes would have them hunted and taken by which it is seen what is in thy heart if thy hands had power for it is to be understood that a lamb never hunted a fox but it is the nature of a fox to hunt the lambs and if he can come to his prey he devours and destroyes them and a fox hath his hole for the day and ravines in the night mark that and that is the hunter and devourer which is thy secret design but thou art chained and the lambs preserved Thou saist where could we find the proverb more fully verefied then in the subtil deluding Schismaticks of our age and for bloudy cruelty can we find a parallel of these where they get power and is it not high time saist thou to endeavour the reclaiming and reformation of those whose main intendment is to ruine the Church of God and deny the precious Truths and Ordinances of the Gospel Answ These â—hings are certainly thy own and it is high time for thee to reclaim and reform thy unruly spirit which is found in the highest degree of enmity and cruelty which the Quakers were never guilty of for their principle leads them in love and peace and good will to all men and that line doth not parallel with bloud-thirsty men who are destroying one another about their worships and Religion and it is high time that such were reclaimed and reformed from their iniquity of which the Quakers were never guilty Thou faist the Wolves were destroyed out of the Land by a victorious Prince oh saist thou that we could see the like deliverance from the Foxes Answ Here the bottome of the pit is come up and a murderer is seen which would destroy the innocent as Foxes and would have the help of a Prince to do it by which thou shewest the nature of a Wolf and the Land is spread over with too many such as thou art that the Lambs can hardly find an outward place to lie down quietly amongst you Thou saist for Iustice that puts thee upon looking well about thee at home since in that little spot of ground divine providence and goodnesse hath called thee to be resident upon in the work and calling of a Minister of the Gospel thou hast found many even too many saist thou of these little Foxes to have their fixed abode being sadly perverted by the grosse and strong delusions of the Quakers Answ Thou hast already manifested thy Justice and it is seen to be in the enmity and thy residence in that place as a Gospel Minister was never so ordered by Gods providence and goodnesse but a great Living called thee and in it man hath placed thee and it is for thy gain that thou looks so well about thee and if such as thou calls Foxes could put into thy mouth willingly as thou takes it from them unlawfully then it is like thou wouldst blot out the name of Foxes and give them the name of Christians and in this stands thy Justice to feed upon the fat and to live at ease in thy residence and for such whose fixed abode is there whom thou calls Foxes they was converted to the faith of Christ before thou came to be resident amongst them and it is the truth of God which they have received by which they are turned from errour and delusions and their fixed abode is their natural right and they are a people whom I very well know and I know that they live peaceably soberly and are of an honest conversation and thou hast nothing against them justly saving this one thing that they worship the God of their Fathers after the manner which thou calls heresie Thou saist they are hurried to a high degree of contempt of publick prayers preaching sacraments c. and these by right saist thou are part of my charge though they have withdrawn themselves from being any part of my flock Answ They are established in the truth and publick prayer and preaching in the spirit of God they never denied and they are not by right any part of thy charge for since thy coming among them they have denied thy practice and therefore they are not withdrawn from thee for they never belonged unto thee and if it should be granted that some of them were part of thy charge and of thy flock then hast not thou been a carelesse shepherd to let thy flock goe astray and be lost how canst thou say if it be so that thou hast kept all thy flock together which is the care of a good shepherd Thou saist to attempt the best means and to use the most likely wayes and method for their recovery seems not onely truly charitable but highly just and equitable Answ Thy attempts and means are far unlikely to recover them if they was in errour for thou attempts to be delivered from
actual worship unto God Answ The mixture is in the fall but who are regenerated and born again they live in the spirit and knows both time and place to render actual worship unto God in the order of his spirit and yet are not determined to time or place by limittation Thou saist if the God of this world would have all Professours enjoy a total immunity from the Law of God and all manner of licentiousnesse allowed without check of conscience let him then make an every day Sabbath Answ Christ is Lord of the Sabbath and Christians enjoyes an every day Sabbath in Christ of whom the Jewes Sabbath was a figure and they are in his righteousnesse and doth not allow any licentiousnesse for their rest is holy and they lie down in it without check of conscience Thou saist publick worship speaks a joint concurrence of several worshippers for the performance of the same action of religious worship so that the very light of nature saist thou gives it clear suffrage for the necessity of convenient places of meeting for the performance of the publick worship and service of God Answ Christians do jointly concur in the spirit in which they have unity and that in the same action of religious worship but Apostates cannot do so and though they meet together in one place yet not having unity in the spirit they cannot jointly concurre in the woiship of God and so the place and worship which thou calls publick being set up in the apostasie and not after Christ the Christians cannot own them for light and darknesse hath no communion together Thou saist is not this to cry up inward light and yet plainly to live in darknesse Answ This is to cry up inward light and to live in it and therefore it is that we deny all false worships which is set up and practised in the darknesse Thou saist I have neither faith to believe nor any reason to see that there is any Separated I adde and Consecrated places for divine worship any such legal or ceremonial kind of holinesse which renders duties performed there more acceptable unto God then if performed by the same persons and in the like manner in any other places Answ Thou hast all this while been pleading for that separated place to be the Church and hast been holding forth a special presence of God in that worship which is there performed and now thou saith that duties performed there are no more acceptable unto God then if performed in any other places and if thou have neither faith to believe it nor reason to see it as thou saist then thou might have spared thy pains in writing thy Book for thy chief aim is to bring people to conform to the worship there observed as the worship of God in his Church which if duties be no more acceptable unto God which is there performed then if performed in any other place then such as withdrawes from it may perform duties as acceptable unto God in other places according to thy own faith and reason so it is not a true Church nor a true worship for the worship and duties performed in the true Church which is in God are only accepted of God and in no other place or places whatsoever and here thou hast pulled down thy own building with thy own hands Thou saist here then arises that ample provision that Christ hath made for his special presence in the places of religious worship viz. from the Communion of Saints meeting in convenient separated places for publick worship and from the promise annexed thereto and not from any peculiar holinesse in those places where they thus meet to worship God Answ The Communion of Saints is in the light of Christ and so saith John If we walk in the light as he is in the light then have we fellowship one with another and this is not the state of Adam in the fall neither can his Sonnes and Daughters perform a religious worship unto God and so no Church either by Communion of Saints or the place it self and therefore such worshippers have not the promise annexed In the fifth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the special presence of God in publick worship by his Train or Retinue of Angels to which I answer generally Answ That God is present in his publick worship which is performed in his spirit was never yet denied by us but thou hast not proved thy worship to be the worship of God and therefore we say that Gods presence is not in it to the comfort of the worshipper and this may answer all thy Jumblings about the Angels for thou art not come to the Angelical Ministration In the sixth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the practical inferences drawn from the presence of angels in the places of publick worship Answ When he bringeth forth his only-begotten Son into the world he saith and let all the angels of God worship him and this is a full answer to this whole Chapter In the seventh Chapter thou seems to hold forth Gods presence in publick worship by his word with some other particulars relating to that matter which I might mention and answer if I did intend largenesse but finding the whole matter of thy Book to lye chiefly as to Church worship ministry and practice as they generally now stand I shall not make needlesse repetitions by answering the same thing over and over yet this I say unto this Chapter that Gods presence by his word is in his worship and all that worship him aright he teaches them by his word but that thy preaching is the word of God or that the word of God is in thy preaching or his presence by his word in that publick worship through they preaching that thou hast not any where proved and therefore it falls of it self In the eighth Chapter thou seems to hold forth practical inferences that teachers of the word must not corrupt the word of God and that it must be owned as Gods word and received and mingled with faith and practised in obedience Answ I answer generally that they who are born of the word which is immortal they do not corrupt it but are true and faithfull ministers of it and many have received it as it is indeed the word of God and they mingle it with faith and practises it in obedience and such are doers of the word and are blessed but thy tongue must learn silence and thou must know a new birth and a new tongue before thou can truly minister the word of God In the ninth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the presence of God in his worship by his ministers and that the truths of God must be heard though from ungodly preachers and that ministers are Gods Embassadours and stewards of the mysteries of God and that God and man works together in the conversion of souls and production of saving faith Ans Thou said even now that teachers of the word must not corrupt the
between the nature of man in the fall and the nature of Christ that never fell for we own the light which is manifest from the nature of Christ to be the true light which enlightens every one that comes into the world but they that rebell against it can never come to the place of blisâ— and happinesse by it but we are in love with it and knows the work which God hath designed for it which is to destroy the work of the Devil and to be salvation unto the ends of the earth unto all that in it believe and its narive strength lustre and radâ—ancie is an infallible guide if faithfully followed to bring to the place of bliss and happinesse and â—hough thou be in the unbelief yet this is our report concerning the true light and we know it is neither prophanenesse ignorance imaginations nor notions Thou satst this inward light which the wise mans stiles the candle of the Lord and at the best saist thou burnes but in the socket of a corrupt mind with very â—â—ch dimnesse should ever discover the right and ready way to the new Jerusalem is the product only of mens foolish fancies their pride and ignoranâ—â— Answ The inward light which the wise man stiles the candle of the Lord is broken forth of the socket of a corrupt mind in many and now shines upon the house top and what would thou have to discover the right and ready way to new Jerusalem if not the candle of the Lord which is his light within but this is not thy guide and so thou remains in Jerusalem below where Hagars seed ruleth but we have found the right and ready way to Jerusalem above the City of the great King and are set down under his Government in peace Thou now comes to speaek of divine Revelation and saith that God is every where present filling all places and spaces both real and imaginarie by his immensity Answ Then stand thou in his fear for he is near thee as a swâ—ft witnesse against thee and however God is present with other things in their kind yet he doth not reveal himself unto man by any other way or by any other thing then the light of Christ and we know how God manifests himself in every particular place according to mans present state and condition and what his hot displeasure is revealed against and what his loving kindnesse and mercy is revealed unto Thou saist but though God be every where present and so with every creature equally in regard of his infinite essence and of his emmensity yet as to the special and peculiar efficacie of his presence he is not with all either things or places or persons after the same manner present Answ If God be equally present with every Creature in regard of his infinite Essence then all things have the same proportion of it but all things have not the same proportion of Gods infinite Essence therefore not with every creature equally for an equal proportion is the same to all and doth not admit of any thing special but his infinitenesse is in himself and he measures forth so much as his pleasure is to give and it is an equal proportion unto all according to his pleasure yet some have more and some lesse but all some and that measure so manifested in man hath a peculiar efficacie as to its operation through the obedience unto it and this is equal in it self and special by it self and yet in the infinitenesse of Essence without any distinction Thou sayst that God is present with all his creatures as the preserver guider and governour of them Answ Whosoever sinneth are not preserved guided nor governed by God but some do sin therefore God is not so present with all but they that come to the effectual working of his power they know an immortal birth quickned and raised with which the preserving guiding and governing power of God is present Thou saist thy design mainly intended is against those who because they are wise in their own conceit do neglect publick Sermons and Sacraments Answ Thy main intendment and design is against those that God hath redeemed from the earth and from all false ways and worships and gathered them into the publick worship of his spirit where they hear Christs voice and follows him and cannot own thy Church or Sermons or Sacraments In the second Chapter thou seems to hold forih a general presence of God with all thing and more especially with some things but hath not shewed what those things are though thou intend it to the worship now generally practifed but hast never come close to the matter thou aimes at but hast multiplied thy own words and thoughts about the Saints worship in times past which according to the Scripture we own in tâ—eir dispensations but thou hast not proved that the place which thou calls a Church or the worship that is there observed is either of them true or warrantable according to any Scripture precept or president or the mind of God at this day so that thy whole Book may silence it self as to the matter thou aims at for where a thing is not rightly stated and truly proved it is a sufficient proof against it self yet I shall briefly answer a few things more Thou sayest had there not been a peculiar people a royal seed even the Church of God to be raised out of the ruines of fallen man by the interposing of Christ first proffered and propounded for the worlds reparation in that fundamental promise the seed of the woman shall break the serpents head Answ Thou hast confessed that the Church of God is the royal seed then it is such as are born of the seed that are Gods peculiar people and true members of his Church therefore mark thy own words for if the royal seed be the Church as thou hast confessed and in it self is true then neither wood nor stone nor people in the fall can be the Church and the seed is known in which the Church flourisheth in this day of her restitution out of the wildernesse and the promise is unto us fulfilled who are born of God Thou sayest but among all the manifestations of Gods presence and favours there are none more remarkably signal for constant reviving and comforting the hearts of his people then those that have been truly experienced in his ordinances enjoyed by his servants in those places which either by divine appointment or at least by divine approbation have been separated and set apart for religious worship and the service of God Answ This is a place in which thou hast come as near the matter thou aims at as any place in thy book therefore I shall speak more fully to it thou hast so stated the matter in general terms as that it may lye which way any will bend it and is it reasonable to state things in general terms as to what hath been and not to discover the things that are which is
word then how can an ungodly man preach it and not corrupt it and this matter being reduced out of thy general terms and stated particularly into such as it doth properly belong then we can truly say that Gods presence is in his worship by his ministers and that they are his Embassadours and Stewards of his mysteries but we dare not say that so it is with ungodly men or that the ministry of ungodly men doth work to the conversion of souls or production of saving faith Some few particulars of this Chapter I shall answer Thou sayest it is so certain a truth that if the minister be bad yet if he preach the pure word of God we must receive the word because we are not so much to regard the man preaching as the word preached Answ No lye is of the truth for it is as possible that the East and West should joyn together as for a bad man or an ungodly man to preach the pure word of God for God doth not make use of such men to be his Embassadours or Stewards neither can such work together with God in any service for him because it is inconsistent with the pure nature of God to be a co-worker with an ungodly man for an ungodly man is against God and God is against all his ungodlinesse and these cannot possibly work together in man being that they are contrary in nature one to the other and yet thou fears not to go about to prove this ungodly assertion from the ministry of Iudas and saith that of all of them Christ said he that receiveth you receiveth me and yet one of them was Iudas Iscariot who also betrayed him Then thou sayest we may plainly see by Christs own words we may receive Christ by the ministry of Judas a traytor nay sayest thou I might say a Devil Answ Thou art gotten into high prophanenesse for when Iudas was sent forth with the rest he had part in the ministry but when treacherous thoughts did rise in him and that the Devil stirred him up to act his treachery he was never a minister of Christ after that and it may be read in the first of Acts where the Disciples prayed and said shew which of these two thou hast chosen that he may take part of this minisâ—â—y and Apostleship from which Iudas by transgression fell mark it and consider thy assertion Thou saist that every Saint should have their garments died white in the bloud of the Lamb much more Christs Stewards they should be cloathed with the white robes of sincerity to act unfeignedly for God Answ These are only words as if one proud man should bid another be humble or one drunkard bid another be sober and tell them it should be so but view thy self and the rest which thou looks upon to be stewards and see if thou can find it so indeed and if not then you are not as you should be by thy own confession and if Christs Stewards should have their garments so died then surely no bad man or ungodly man can stand in that office neither is it possible that any such should act unfeignedly for God but who are his Stewards indeed through the sanctification of the Spirit they are cloathed with his righteousnesse and are approved in his sight In the tenth Chapter thou seems to hold forth practical deductions from Gods presence with his ministers and saith God is affronted by any indignities that are offered to his ministers and how can any have so impudent a face sayest thou as to pretend they are sent of God who makes railing and reviling of others to be their work Answ This is the work which thou art found to be in who calls the ministration of the Spirit canting language and Christs Ministers Foxes and Hereticks which surely are great indignities and in the highest manner of railing and reviling by which thy practical deduction is found to be out of Gods presence and railing and reviling of others were never our work though we do give righteous judgement against the Seed of the evil doer In the eleventh Chapter thou seems to hold forth Gods presence in his worship by the holy spirit and saist the word and the spirit goes together and thou saist thou shall begin with the Evangelical Prophet Isaiah As for me this is my Covenant with them saith the Lord my spirit which is upon thee and my words which I have put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy Seed nor out of the mouth of thy Seeds Seed saith the Lord from henceforth and for ever Answ This was the word of the Lord unto the Prophet and he had the spirit in the word my spirit which is upon thee mark here was the spirit upon him and the word spake in the spirit and the word put words into his mouth mark again and the word said my words shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy Seed mark again the word was in the Seed and was not to depart out of the mouth of the Seed nor out of the mouth of the Seeds Seed from henceforth and for ever saith the Lord and this is the word that lives and abides for ever and it is in the mouth of the Seed and from the Seed are the words of the word spoken and there is the true ministry if thou hast an ear to hear and here is the word and the spirit joined together which is the word of the Gospel that we preach Thou saist all Gods children shall be clearly taught by the spirit of God Answ Then is man laid wholly aside in that work and why art thou so offended at silent meetings when thou saist all Gods children shall be clearly taught by his spirit and if clearly then it doth not admit of any conjunction in its teaching Thou saist mans preaching may fill the head full of notions but the spirits teacbings must fill the heart with real motions of grace and goodnesse towards God Answ Then let all flesh be silent that notions may die and wither and that the heart may come to be exercised towards God in his spirit and then people will not be alwaies learning as now they are amongst notions but will come to the knowledge of the truth in the spirit and so come to the joy of Gods salvation Thou saist take a Christian without faith and you unchristian him Answ Every true Christian lives in the faith and therefore cannot be taken without it and so cannot be unchristianed as being without it In the twelfth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the spirits teaching five wayes 1. by removing impediments 2. by suggesting Gospel truths to the soul 3. by enlightening the mind 4. by strengthning the soul 5. by raising truths Ans Thou art quite beside the matter for these particulars do not so belong to the spirits teaching as to its working only the third particular is as to its