Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n
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A41388
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Firmianus and Dubitantius, or, Certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisme's that trouble the peace of the church and are destructive of primitive piety written in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians / by Tho. Good.
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Good, Thomas, 1609-1678.
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1674
(1674)
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Wing G1029; ESTC R23950
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83,883
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174
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introduced that it should be received by the Preists only in both kinds by the people in one is not this with the Socinians to make the Sacraments mere indifferent Ceremonies alter able at the Churches pleasure But the Councell of Trent flyes higher if any man shall say that all faithfull Christians by Gods Command or for necessity of Salvation ought to Receive the Sacrament in both kinds let him be acursed I wonder whether Pope Gelasius sate in or was out of his infallible Chair when he roundly said we find that some do abstain from the Chalice of the Sacred Blood let them receive the entire Sacrament or be kept from the whole because the division of one and the same mystery cannot be without grand Sacriledge Either the Pope was not infallible or the present Church of Rome is most Sacrilegious Firm. You rightly Judge and were their fancy of Transubstantiation true as nothing is more false and ridiculous yet were it not sufficient to debar the Laity of the Cup because they receive the Blood of Christ with his Body for this is not to drinke but to eat it and besides the Sacrament is not a sign of his Blood in the veins but as 't was shed and powred out might not the Preists as well receive his Blood with his Body and then 't were as superfluous for them to drinâ—e of the Cup as for the people but I pray proceed in your reasons against Popery Dub. My third reason is taken from the invocation of Saints departed which is against Scripture and antiquity 't is an attribute belonging to God alone that â—he is a God hearing Prayers 'T is a chiefe part of his worship thou shalt Worship the Lord thy God and him oâ—ely shalt thou Serve it robs Christ of one part of his Preistly office who now sitts at Gods right hand interceding for us there is but one Mediator betwixt God and man the man Christ Iâ—sus certainly is holy men both before and under the law prayed to God alone through faith in the promised seed or Messias without invocateing any departed Saint because there was none then as they of the Church of Rome confess admitted to the beatifical vision and consequently could not know the need or praiers of men upon earth in the Glass of the Trinity there is less reason now to make our adresses to the spirits of just men made perfect Christ himselfe sitting at Gods right hand and Interceding for us Besides the worship of Angells is forbidden by St. Paul Col. 2. and the Angell in the Revelation twice sorbade St. Iohn to worship him Cap. 19. and 22 yea the worshippers of Angells were in the primitive times branded with the title of haereticks under the name of Angelici and therefore much less ought wee to worship the Saints departed for certainely they being the more excellent Creatures are much more capable of such worship then the soules of men that are now in Abrahams bosome in Paradise not yet in that perfect bliss and glory which they shall enjoy when their soules and bodies shall be reunited but according to many of the fathers in a certaine and joyfull expectancy of it after the last and finall judgment where the place of their present abode is I shall tell you when â—he fathers are agreed about it For this Saint worship certain it is there is no express Scripture and 't is as certain there is no generall consent of antiquity let any man peruse Mr. Meads excellent treatise of the Apostacy of the latter times wherein 't is apparent how the Cannonizing of Saints in the Church of Rome agrees with the heathens Apotheosis their praying to them with the worshipping of Heroes their Dij Medioxumi their haveing severall Saints for Patrons of Particular Countryes Trades and Callings Phisitians for divers diseases like the heathens Dij Tutelares as may be seen in Chemnitius his examen and in other learned men Firm. You need not spend more words about this grosse superstition which is nothing else but a mixture of Christianity and Paganisme and of all the errours of the Church of Rome most dangerous for the Lord our God is a jealous God and will not suffer the honour and worship that is due to him alone to be given to any other Dub. I shall submit to your advice and proceed to a fourth reason against Popery which is their adoration of images so much condemned in holy Scripture what more expressly forbiden then image worship by the second Commandement which they of Rome have Cunningly left out in their mass books offices Primmers and Catechism's and without all shew of Reason asserted it to be a positive Command belonging onely to the Jews how demonstratively is the fourth of Deutronomie against it from the 12 verse to the 18 many other texts might be urged to the same purpose all which the Schoolmen endeavour to baffle by their Pittifull distinctions betwixt an Image and an Idol a picture upon a cloath and one ingraven in wood or stone betwixt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which every Esurient Groeculus every mean Sciolist will smile at betwixt Mediatè Relutivè and Terminative which aâ—e distinctions at least some of them without a difference mere Chimericall phansies if a man shall seriously peruse the 13 and 14. Chapters of the Book of Wisdome which at Rome is Canonicall Scripture and consider what answers the Heathens returned to those that objected against them their Idol worship that they worship not the Image but the Numen or divine power it represented he will easily discern that the wiser sort of Heathens made as wise Appologies for their Image worship as the wisest Papists do for theirs As for the antiquity of this grosse superstition both Fathers Councels are against it as is evident from that excellent Homily of our Church concerning the perill of Idolatry if it be replyed t were the images of the heathens they opposed true 't is for in the first ages of the Church there were no others the Christians of those times abominateing all image worship but the reasons they give against the heathen Imagery wound the Church of Rome under the fifth rib no Christian Church did then use images in their oratoryes in after ages they were admitted only for an historicall use as may be seen in St Gregories writings who lived above 600 years after Christ true 't is by the Second Nicene Councell their worship was decreed and so this iniquity was established by a law such a one as that packed convention could legitimate and hence forward not only the pictures of Saints but of God himself and of the Blessed Trinity were set up in Churches which was an high dishonour to the Glorious Majesty of the Almighty to be portraid like an old Man and gave an occasion to ignorant people to conceive him to be so indeed hence I have heard some of them say when they swore by God that they
swore by a good Man by which 't is evident how the grosse superstition of the Church of Rome hath crooked silly Souls and that all such images are teachers of Lies very vanities as the Scripture shews and reason demonstrates For to say nothing of the Blasphemous images of God the Father and the holy Trinity doth not the image of any Saint whom these pseudo-Catholicks worship lie to their imaginations representing that which is not for nothing but the Soules and Spirits of those Saints do now remain so that whilest they picture and worship them in bodily shapes which pictures represent what is not they worship they know not what praying onely to the Soules of Saints yet phansying them in bodily shapes as when they lived here on earth how doth it concern all Serious Christians to beware of the Religious worship of any creature of Gods or mans makeing of Angell Saint or Image which is so expressly forbidden in the word of God And surely if we might worship the picture of a man which is mans Creature 't were much more rational to worship a true man yea the Son Moon and Starrs and all thâ— host of heaven they being all of them the Creatures of Almighty God Firm. You rightly conclude were not a judiciall blindness upon the eyes of our adversaries they could not be Guilty of so dangerous a suspition Dub. I shall trouble you but with one reason more for my forsakeing the Church of Rome which was breifely their praiers in an unknown tongue a practise manifestly contrary to plain Scripture and the antient Doctors of the Church a most unreasonable service opposite to that which we are to perform to Almightâ— God 'T is so bafled by St. Paul that all the learned â—en of the Roman party have nothing of sence or reason to answer and as for antiquity 't was not so much as thought upon in the first ages in the Church the Liturgies then every where were in the known and vulgar tongue otherwise how should the unlearned say Amen The practise of the Church of Rome is in this as in divers other of their fopperyes a very mistery of iniquity I could heartily wish that for the undeceiveing of ignorant Papists their Missales Pontifical's Breviaryes Lady Psaltres c. were translated into the English and other vulgar tongues that such poore deluded soules might see to what absurd prayers they say Amen to what childish ridiculous Ceremonies they â—ubmit I might here add the vain Reptitions of so many Ave-Maria's Pater-noster's upon their beads their saying of them at certain houres as a Pensum or taske or a Pennance to make a Compensation for their sins rather then as a willing serious duty from the heart and soule which is not Religious praying but a Childish saying of prayers a vain heathenish babling after the manner of an old wises charm resting in the work done as if the bare saying of prayers without any intention of the mind were the only end of praying or the effectuall â—ervenâ— prayer of a Righteous man Iam. 5.16 I might also add their cheating Purgatory their purchasing of pardons and indulgences for sins past and for many hundred yeares to come by sums of money sett downe in the Tax booke of their Chancery their Pilgrimages and bodily Severityes to expiate for the sins of their soules their allowing of Brothell houses to Gratiâ—ye the unmarried Clergy and others in their unclean Lusts for which the Pope receives a luâ—ty Pension But to deale truely with you no one thing wrought a greater dislike of Popery in me then their barbarous bloody Cruelâ—y towards those that they please to call Haereticks their savage inquisition their Parisian Irish and other massacres their marian Butcherings their intended matchless powder treason their poysoning and stabing of kings their Justifieing of Rebellion and all manner of wickedness by their right intention and Doctrine of probability as is to be seen in the first and second part of the mistery of Jesuitisme in the Jesuites Morralls can such Villany such Cruelty and Christianity stand together did Christ and his Apostles propagate the Gospel with such Carnall weapons how severely does our Saviour rebuke his angry disciples when they would have called for fire from heaven to destroy the uncivill Schismatical Samaritans yâ—e know not what spirit yee are of for the son of man is not come to dâ—stroy mens lives but to save them Luk. 9.55 O that Christs pretending Vicar had the spirit of the meeke and holy Jesus These Sir were the reasons which moved me to forsake the Communion of the Church of Rome for upon this account I could not believe her to be the Catholick Church or any sound part of it but a very Schismatical Haeretical one that had departed exceeding much from Primitive Christianity from the faith that was once delivered to the Sainâ—s Firm. You have given very sufficient reasons for your departure from that unsound Church which may satisfie any serious considering Christian and you have saved me the trouble of any further addition to them I am now fully perswaded that you are neither Atheist Infidel or Papist pray you let me know what is your present perswasion and what Church you most â—pprove Dub. Truely Sir there are so many sects amongst the Protestants that I am in no small doubt with which of them to hold Commuion but my inclination leads me chiefly to returne to my old Mother the Church of England from which most unhappily as I am now convinced I heretofore separated however for the removâ—l of some scruples which yet remain with me â— earnestly desire you to give your selfe the trouble of a short discourse concerning the severall sects now in England Firm. I shall most â—readily gratifie you In this your very reasonable request nothing doubting but that I shall by Gods Gratious assiâ—tance remove all your scruples and fix you a true son of that Church which is the most Catholick Apostolical Church now exstant in all the world which those that do acknowledge the holy Scriptâ—re to be the infallible word of God the perfect Rule of all the substantialls of Christianity both for faith and manners and have some competent knowledge in the records of antiquity the want of which is one great cause of hâ—resy and schism as to be able to trace Christian Religion through the severall ages of the Church from the Apostles down to these presenâ— times I say those that do acknowledge these things cannot doubt of Dub. You much confirm me in what I have often heard from grave and learned men that one great cause of errours in Religion is ignorance in the writings of the ancient Doctors of the Church Councels and Ecclesiasticall histories this is not every mans work that have neither books to read nor brains to understand them and that tâ—e surest way to be an Orthodox Christian is by studying descendendo beginning with the records of the first century then