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A40227 The papists strength, principles, and doctrines (which they are sworn to preach, from the Councel of Trent, by the Popes authority, and after confirmed by the last General Assembly at Rouen, 1571, all which they have sworn to perform) answered and confuted furthermore their principles and doctrines answered and confuted, as they were laid down in two or three severall papers, by R.W. papist, lately sent from Holland : also a challenge to the pope and all his adherents to choose out of all his dominions some cardinals, fryers, or Jesuits to try their bread and wine, after consecration (by watching on their side and on our side) to prove that if afterward they have consecrated it, whether the bread and wine doth not loose its taste and savour, and so not the body and blood of Christ : also a paper to all them that fast and afflict themselves who are in the will-worship and voluntary humility : also some quæries to all the papists upon earth to be answered in writing and sent to them, which all sects upon the earth call Quakers / by George Fox. Fox, George, 1624-1691.; Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669. 1658 (1658) Wing F1877; ESTC R3577 83,037 105

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Inquisitions and this hath been held up by the same nature and the same weapons by which the Heathens held up their Idol gods and the apostate Jews as the apostate Christians from the true faith and from the true Christians of the true Church whose weapons were not carnall but spirituall by whose faith they overcame the world the kingdomes and subdued mountains and quenched the fiery darts of Satan So your overcoming and all other Apostates hath been with outward weapons Gaols Inquisitions and death bound with oaths out of the Covenant of God whose Religion is built upon that who are all the Wolves ravening devourers and so doubts the ground of them in your selves you feel not yet your pasture and fields hath been so large for the Beast to raven up and down in but now the Lord God Almighty with his power will hedg you up and bring you into a narrower compasse And anathematized and hereticks are ye all from the Apostles as the Gentiles from the Jewes but Jewes and Gentiles all come to be one out of the life which gave forth the Scriptures So Christians that be apostatized and anathematized from the life that the Apostles were in be as the Jewes and Gentiles from the life of God and with the life all comprehended amongst the Jewes and Gentiles from the life of the Apostles and true Christians and with the life of God are all judged who be out of the life of the Saints So it is not the professors of the words of the Saints but they that be in the life that are justified they are they who have unity with God and one with another 19 Prin. And this faith Catholique out of which any cannot be saved the which presently I professe of my good minde and hold truly I say promise vow and swear for to retain and confesse God helping most constantly intirely and inviolately untill the last teach and preach as much as shall be possible for me through them that shall be subject to me or shall be in my charge so God me help and these holy Evangelists of God Answ. All swearers are out of the faith of Christ Jesus who said swear not at all and the faith the Ministers of Christ and the Apostles were in who said swear not at all and the Ministers of Christ was not made by oaths nor sworn to preach but you are apostatized from their faith and life that gives victory And the Evangelists all of them was against swearing there is not one example among them all not among the Apostles that they broke the doctrine of Christ in swearing and was made Ministers by oaths but by the will of God which you all are apostatized from them and are held under with the Life and from their faith reprobated and your faith and Catholique is out of that which saves and Church and so come under the condemnation which was the false brethren went out from the Apostles and since the world have gone after them which have had the Scripture and your own traditions and ceremonies the sheeps cloathing which have been fain to binde one another and tye one another by oaths to uphold what you professe which is all out of the Covenant of God and the saving faith you are ignorant of and from it apostatized wch gives victory over the world and your teaching and preaching hath been out of the true faith who multitudes hath gathered after you and so deceived the souls of people telling of a Purgatory and your souls be in it and this is all judged with the true Judge of the world the Bishop of the soul 20 Prin. Ye say that ye ought to honour the Reliques of Saints and that God hath not forbidden Images and that ye ought to honour Images of Saints because their bodies hath been the organs and temple of the holy spirit and that God doth by vertue of their holy Reliques many miracles and because that the honour redounds to themselves that they represent unto us and when one worships the Crosse the honour of the worship redounds to Jesus Christ But the Idols ye say are forbidded which doth represent the false gods which the heathen worship Answ. God hath forbidden to make Representations and Images of Saints and Reliques and the Images of Christ and the Crosse is set up by you who are apostatized from the spirit of God in which spirit God is to be worshpiped and not the Images of Christ nor the Saints nor Crosses for those be all out of the power of God and the crosse of Christ which is the power of God which all must bend to and the Crosses and Images of Male and Female whatsoever they that worship and honour them are as the heathen for Reliques Images and Crosses are set up since the days of the Apostles by you who are inwardly ravened from the spirit of God by the same nature which went astray from the life in the Jews and Gentiles which wh●n they went astray from the spirit of God they set up Images which displeased God as you that w●nt forth from the spirit of God since the dayes of the Apostles inwardly ravened from that who say that after bread and wine is consecrated i●'s Christ so are the Antichrist that hath set up the false Christ who cries Loe here loe there and so put him in your chambers deserts and secrets and yet you say he was crucified and rose again and at the right hand o● God and say he was before all time and that by him all things was made And yet ye likewise say after ye have consecrated bread and wine which you call Transubstantiation it is Christ and thus you confound your selves And the lying signes and wonders which ye call miracles which ye say are wrought by the Reliques of the Saints is that which John speaks of in his Revelation The beast shall deceive because of his miracles And the Apostle speaks of concerning the man of sin which shall deceive with his lying signes and wonders and to the Reliques ye have given the honour and worship and not to God and so lives in the outward Now Jannes and Jambres could do miracles by the power of witchcraft by the same power the Beast and the false Prophets the mother of harlots Babylon and man of Sin acted to deceive the Nations since the dayes of the Apostles with all which is the mystery of Iniquity she hath sate as a Queen Lady of Kingdomes and hath seen no sorrow but now she will come to l●sse of children for the Lord God of heaven and earth will be honoured and worshipped who will not give his glory to any other and not to Images Reliques nor Crosses And the Apostles you are all got up since from them apostatized for when they was adoring of Paul or adoring of Apollo the Corinthians came under rebuke by the Apostles who said Who is Paul or who is Apollo It 's Christ that dyed and was crucified and bid them prove
Joshua and Israel falling down before the Ark which was in prayer to the Lord and the Lord heard him and spoke to him and answered him Now he doth not say that he fell down to the Ark or to the Images or bowed down to them for the Law was contrary which saith thou shalt not bow down c. But he and Israel fell down before the Ark to the Lord and this is nothing to the bowing now to Images and pictures and crosses for that was the time of the Figure there was a Temple made and many things Tabernacle and Sanctuary which was all in the types and figures before the substance was come But now the substance is come Christ Jesus who ends all types and figures and similitudes and the patterns for he is the substance of those things that figured him forth who hath opened their mouths So now your crosses and your images and your pictures and your bowings before them wch you have made and set up is Antichristian without any command of God against Christ who is the substance And if Joshua had bowed to the outward Arke or Altar or Temple or any of the Figures c. But it was not so and the command of God was the contrary and we say Christ is come the everlasting covenant the everlasting Priesthood for in the first Covenant and priesthood was the Figures and there was singings c. But now they that sing must sing in the spirit and they that pray must pray in the spirit and they that worship must worship in the spirit so it was the work of the Apostles to bring people off the shadows and changeable things to Christ the substance where there was no shadow not change nor variablenesse and to keep them from Idols and so all your idols images crosses crucifixes representations are set up since the Apostacy from the Apostles and so our mouths are eternally opened and that Scripture in Joshua the 7. brings nothing for you for the Jewes Ark is gone and down now and their Altar and Temple is down and gone and denyed by them that be true Christians in the life but them that have a name but be dead are setting up imitations and likenesses that has lost the life of Christ and his minde and the image of God are falling down before dead Idols but Christ is risen and those that be risen with him are seeking those things that be above for crosses crucifixes images idols be below among the dirty mud where the Devill is in the earth the murtherer and murthering one another about their Idols and these dead things which are all out of the truth Pr. And even as Joshua and the Israelites made their prayers to God after this manner and Ceremony so do we make our prayer unto Christ and the blessed Trinity and because we have or at least ought to have a sense of our own basenesse and of the just indignation of Christ against us we turne our selves to his Saints and blessed Mother who are likewise represented unto us by these pictures and do humbly beseech them to mediate between us and Christ Answ. Joshua his falling down before the Arke to pray to the Lord your falling down praying before your Images and Idols and Crosses to put you in minde of Christ is not measurable nor comparable with Joshua's but for the Ark which Joshua fell down before it is ended which Arke was a command of God but yours God never commanded but have been invented by you that have apostatized from the Apostles who saith Little children keep your selves from idols so that which God commanded being denyed which they fell before much more ought yours to be denyed which God never commanded and both are judged with the spirit of truth in which the Saints pray to God the Father of spirits who can pray without Images or representations or Idols and the Saints and the Apostles Christ bade them pray in his name not in the name of Mary not in the name of the Saints nor in the name of his Mother but ask in his own name for saith he Who is my mother sister and brother but those that do the will of my father So this I say though people be never so vile they are not to ask in the name of the Apostles nor of the Saints nor in the name of Mary but in the name of Christ and he hears such who asks in his name for there is no other name under heaven given by which any can be saved then by the name of Jesus Pr. He saith when ye shall see the signe of the Son of man which is the signe of the Cross in the ayre c. then shall all the mockers of this signe of the Cross seeke to hide themselves in the clifts of the Rocks Answ. Who be in the Crosse of Christ which is the power of God they are in Christ and are made free from the wrath that is to come and are in Christ which was before the hills rocks and mountains was setled but your rocks and your mountains and hills in the Apostacy hath covered you and to them you have cryed and under them you have sheltered who has drunk the blood of the Martyrs and Prophets and Saints since the days of the Apostles and your Crosse is in the Ayr set up by the prince thereof who have inwardly ravened from the spirit of God which is the lying signe and the wonder and not the signe of the Son of Man so spirituall Sodome and spirituall Aegypt which is darknesse mystery Babylon the great mother of harlots which inwardly ravened from the spirit of God which has reigned over the Kings of the Earth which have set up her inventions and turned against them that was in the spirit of God who be in the lying signes and wonders And the Son of man is coming upon you like a Thief in the night the same to day yesterday and for ever And all schisms and heresies in the whole Christendome so called is amongst you and such that professe the Scriptures but be out of the life that gave it forth which with it the life we comprehend you all which life was before the Scriptures was given forth and who be in it be of the Church Pr. He saith If you will look upon others then draw your eyes from the bad and worser sort and look upon the better sort whose lives and conversations are without reproof whose godlinesse innocency love and charity to all men c. more then any other sort and the very best amongst you in true reall worth and weight may no more compare then lead or dirt may be compared with gold Answ. Your works and fruits should praise you that is the counsell of a wise man and not thy own tongue and your own tongues but how can you speak of innocency or godlinesse or humility when that Fires Inquisitions and Gaols and killing of such as be contrary to your minds which
they should continue in the Father and in the Son and they that went forth from the Apostles went forth from this and in the Revelations it is declared that all the world went after them who had the lying signes wonders and the miracles and deceived them that dwelt upon the earth and that has been the worship of the beast and this has been since the dayes of the Apostles who said some should depart from the faith which is the shield and so made war against the Saints which was in the faith and over-came them but now the Devill shall be taken and with him the beast and the false Prophets and cast alive into the lake of fire and Babylon the great whore confounded and the Lamb and the Saints shall have the victory and the everlasting Gospel shall be preached to them that dwell upon the face of the earth which is the power of God and strike down all those that has got the words but not the power and reach to the life and immortality that that may come to light through the Gospel which is the power of God and to you that is the word of God The Profession of the Catholique Faith of the last Councell of Roüen holden in the year 1571. according to the Councell of Trent holden the year 1360. which they have taken upon oath and sworn to perform Answ. WHich Faith and profession and Catholique which is held up and performed by an oath a company of swearers which are sworn to perform the Catholique Faith and Profession is got up since the dayes of the Apostles and since the dayes of Jesus Christ in the flesh and separate from them for Christ saith swear not at all though they had sworn in the old time Christ who was the oath of God and the Apostle saith above all things my brethren swear not who was in the covenant of God the oath of God not by heaven nor by earth nor any other oath least ye fall into condemnation so all swearers whatsoever Papists or other that are called Christians are fallen under the condemnation And the Apostles contended for the Faith and was in the Faith till death and true brethren vvhich vvas held up vvithout an oath so all that hold up or perform their Profession of Faith vvith an oath are apostatized from the true Church Faith and Profession from it reprobated and are under condemnation from the Apostles Saints and Christ vvhich vvas never svvorn to perform the Profession of their Church though the first Priest-hood svvore and the Angel and men in strife and Abraham and Solomon and Moses and the Prophets yet Christ the second Priest-hood the covenant of God and the oath of God is that vvhich ends all o●ths and denyed svvearing and the Apostl●s that vvere in the faith of him denyed swearing and these was of the true Church and pure Religion And though the Angell swore the Angels must bow down to the Son of God that saith Swear not at all who is the end of the Prophets greater then Solomon the end of Moses reigns over the houshold of Jacob and Joseph and before Abraham who said swear not Christ Jesus him by whom all things was made before it was made the Master of the family of Heaven and Earth who is the Author of the true faith which is held without an oath which Author of Faith denies oaths and swearing and ends them and they deny swearing that be in his faith 1. and 2. Prin●iples IN N. believe of firme faith and professe all and every of the things contained in the symball of the Faith which the holy Roman Church uses viz. 1 I believe in God the Father all powerful Creator of heaven and of the earth and of all things visible and invisible 2 And in one Lord Jesus Christ the onely Son of God and begotten of the Father before all the worlds God of God Light of Light true God of true God begotten and not made consubstantial with the Father by whom all things have been made who for all men for our salvation is descended from heaven and hath been incarnated by the holy spirit of the Virgin Mary and hath been made man hath been also crucified for us under Pontius Pilate hath suffered and hath been entombed and is risen again the third day according to the Scriptures and is ascended into heaven is set at the right hand of the Father and again shall come in his glory to judge the living and the dead the Kingdome of whom shall have no end Answ. You are not in the true faith of the Son of God nor know him not to be come in the flesh that be swearers and you that be not in the faith of the Son of God you know not God but swearers are under the condemnation and knows not him that was crucified that said swear not at all And knows not him that dyed and rose again and him that is the Light of the world and the Judge of the world Christ Jesus the Saviour by whom all things was made made of a woman born of a Virgin who is one with the Father him ye know not that be out of the faith of him and the Apostles who said Swear not at all whose profession Church Faith and Religion is held up by swearing and oaths with all your stuffe and invented words apostatized from Christ and the Apostles Church profession and faith and Religion under the condemnation and all professions besides upon the earth which is held up by oaths and swearing are under the condemnation in the reprobacy concerning the faith which is in Christ Jesus which gives the victory and is the shield and in which men please God without an oath you cannot please men nor worship without an oath 3 Prin. And in the holy Spirit Lord and quickning power who proceeds from the Father and the Son who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified who hath spoken by the Prophets Ans. You talk of believing in the Spirit that proceeds from the Father and the Son or God that spoke by his Prophets which Christ is the end of the Prophets and you talk of true worship as speaks in spirit and truth which the Devil and enmity is out of you talk of these things who holds up your Church profession and Religion with oaths a company of Apostates from the true faith which the Apostles were in which Christ is the Author of which faith hearing the spirit is received which denies oaths and then in that spirit is God worshipped and the Scripture known given forth from it and the Son and the Father known the Spirit received and the spirit of the Prophets and the end of their words Christ Jesus these are all known by the hearing of faith wherein the spirit is received 4 Prin. And one holy Church Catholique and Apostolique 5 Prin. I confess one baptism for the remission of sins and wait for the resurrection of the dead and for
that is contrary to the Light Then you must know a shame which is to be despised in the sight of all the world in breaking covenants who with them hath made covenants and bound your selves in vowes Therefore come to feel the witnesse of God in you which gives you to feel and see that all the covenants upon earth must be broken that is made from the light the minde that is from it which if you come into the light you will know the marriage of the Lamb your Fast shall cease for God doth not accept your extreams your passions your fast your afflicting your selves for a day while there is prejudice and envy seated among you the man-sl●yer which shews that you be out of the light and life of the Prophets and of Christ and his Apostles both Magistrates and Ministers and Teachers And the Pope which sits now on high whose arms fingers legs and head is brancht out but with the power of the Lord is compassed and seen the end that he is in and all is but earth and the worshippers but earth and in the earthly things the threshing Instruments must thresh for you lie like a wildernesse for the Lord God of power is coming to plow up and so seed it and that the truth over may passe and Christ in power come to reign who is Law-giver and Judge and to break your wills and bow down your thoughts who will subdue all things to himself Who will reign and to exalt his kingdome whose dread and terror is gone out into the earth All what is done in mans will which he pretends to God he will be judged for it and all your observances and fasts and circumstances and worships who hath required this at your hands saith the Lord Come to truth and singlenesse and innocency then you will see Cain is a vagabond the envious man the man-slayer a murtherer from God a vagabond and fugitive though he built a City And he observed outward things but comes not to witness the spirituall Sacrifice but it shewed that you be in envy and slayes men concerning Religion being another spirit then Christ and the Apostles wherein as i● is declared in Scripture with it ye are judged and your reading over prayers cumbers and wearies the just with reading over prayers and praying to names your observing of Images and your earthly Crosses and this keeps you from the life and power of God which is the Crosse of Christ and the Spirit in which you should pray which the Lord knows the mind of G. F. This is to go abroad among the Papists in all the Earth Friend AS thou hast spoke of giving a reason which reason is fathomed and comprehended to be earthly Now there is a reason which flows from the faithful that makes reasonable and that gives dominion over the earthly but this reason is but earthly and stands in the earthly as hereafter will be made appear as thou art brought before the judgement and weighed in the ballance And as for the Church in the days of the Porphet that was in the days of Baal that would not bow to him nor serve him Now it seems there was some that did bow to Baal that had been of the Jewes and remained as in the outward name But those were of the Church that bowed not to Baal to the earthly mark that and those stood in the truth and bowed to the Lord and kissed not Baal and there 's a distinction between the holy kisse and the contrary Now that was invisible that kep● them from bowing to Baal and that was invisible that they were gone from viz. these Jews that did bow to Baal As for the seven Churches of Asia that 's agreeable to these words for many got the words of the Church but the Life they fell from Then as for the Church of Rome as for the dissolution of the Roman Catholique Faith which was before Luther and Calvin which is as a dark puddle the smoak of the bottomlesse pit that hath not a foundation but from the foundation Christ fled And Luther and Calvin something there was stirring in them Luther was true in his place but it was but a little but so much as comprehended you and as for their falling from you before Luther and Calvin they were but in your outward Ceremonies For neither you the Church of Rome nor those you beget nor Luther nor Calvin was in the very life that is infallible the Apostles were in and Christ that the Scriptures were given forth from Therefore kill you and slay you that be contrary to you in your Religion and it is the cause of all people running into Sects and heaps upon earth Calvinists and Lutherans because they are not in the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures that hath been lost among you all since the dayes of the Apostles which is now found among them that are called Quakers whom all the Sects upon earth are against that are got up since the dayes of the Apostles and with the spirit that the Apostles were in you are all fathomed as a span You that are the Church of Rome came to be made up of all these rotten members that fell away from the Apostles before the Apostles deceased that got the forme of godlinesse but denied the power that forbid meats and marriage that minde earthly things So you have been the ancientest Apostates and all that have apostatized from you you call Sectaries which you Apostates was the mother of all And so I tell you you are the most ancient in the form of godlinesse and that have denyed the power as your Gaols and Inquisitions declares your fruits And you lye like a barren field unplowed up but now the plough of the Lord is going the servants of the Lord are driving on the horses which will tear your ground And the publique worship that the Apostles were in who were led by the Spirit of God hath been lost since the dayes of the Apostles amongst you for Christ said false prophets should come that were inwardly ravened that were wolves that had the sheeps cloathing which John saw was come and that the whole world were gone after them and so there you lost the infallible spirit and have held up part of the visible form and run into some inventions of your own making and so is become the Mother of Harlots and have brought them forth that are harlots Now that which Christ said should come which false Prophets John saw was come and the whole world was gone after them they made war with the Saints that kept the testimony of Jesus them that had the forme the sheeps cloathing and were ravened from the spirit and so overcame the Saints then power was given to the beast over all kindreds tongues and nations and all that dwell upon the earth should worship him Then the beast and his names and his images and his mark and horns then the Vials and Thunders should come again to
against whom you and all the sects upon ea●th appears that are come up since the dayes of the Apostles whom they comprehend and will tread to dust and to powder The seed of God is risen and the top-stone is laid glory to God in t●e highest Come out all Sects and S●ctaries to the battel and you are all in the vanity contenders and pretendeders got up since the days of the Apostles the marks are appeared not to be the marks o● the S●ints who hath the Fathers name written in their foreheads but you have the mark of the Beast upon you and without the true ground and the true reason of the Apostl●s ●re you out of For inst●nce the true Church taught not to persecute and the true reasonable men that was in the faith for faith gives victory over that nature in particular that would persecute and so doth not lead to kill the Creature for the sake of the nature in it in general And fafth teaches not this D●ct●ine but denies it and brings to suffer all things through which mountains are subdued Thou further saist They that are of a wicked life may have a right faith and reproves others that cannot believe it Answ. A wicked man he hath not faith of the el●ct of God for faith gives victory over wickednesse and faith purifies and faith makes reasonable and who are of the faith are of Abraham and come out of all these adulterous generations the mystery of Fai●h is h●ld in a pure conscience Now here you are in the errour you Papists and all Apostates from the Apostles like the Jewes and the Devil that hath a belief but is out of the truth yet may get a belief in the Letter as the Jewes held a belief long in the Letter but kill'd the Son And you have had the Letter and form of godlinesse long but killed the Saints and Martyrs who are reprobated Devils Jewes Apostates Papists from the elect of God for who are of faith ●re of Abraham and who are of Abraham are of the elect of Christ which doth not pertain to Idols And here is the mystery of the Church known the body of Christ which is a top of your flesh and Idols both which is not of the fl●sh of Abraham nor of the Church All you are but the pretenders of the Spirit of Christ in the apostacy from it since the dayes of the Apostles as your fruits declare your names and Images So I confesse to you it is the ancientest form that hath been since the dayes of the Apostles but had I never known the Papists nor none of these Sectaries we had know● truth We came not through the Popes channels but are come to that which all Apostates ravened from and so you your selves must be put to silence and your mouths stopped which are the evill beasts that tears one another worse then the common beasts which the Apostles speak of which was coming up before his decease How are you learning one another about your meat and husks and worships and images and helps and Teachers and Scriptures which was not the work of them that gave it forth with your horns And how many Images have you upon you and names and marks and what are all these Images and marks but the marks and Images of the beast which is risen since the days of the Apostles Whereas thou Queriest what be all these but sect as Independents Anabaptists and other Sectaries which sayest thou was first of the Church of Rome and thou s●yest the Church of Rome cannot be said to be sectaries because it hath been constant since the dayes of the Apostles and all Sectaries springed from it and not you from them Answ. The Roman Church was the first made up of Hereticks Schismaticks and Apostates and Reprobates and Antichrists and false Prophets which Christ said should come Matth. 7. and John said was come and as you may read in Timothy and Titus Reprobate from the faith and erred from the faith and had the form of godlinesse and denyed the power and kept the form and as John said was come and they went after Idols before his decease and he writ to the little children to keep themselves from Idols And Jude saw them crept up before they were aware which went in Corah's Balaams and Cains way that were Murtherers And are not you Murtherers that murther one another as Cain about his sacrifice And Jude saw they turned the grace of God into wantonnesse which should be their teacher and salvation So all these self-separations Apostates Reprobates which went after the doctrine of Devils and forbid meats and marriages and the spirit spoke expresly should depart from the faith and ●ll these have made up the Church of Rome and there 's your visible Church held up by Cains weapons Then as for all these Sectaries springed from you you were like to beget no other children but bastards which is but a false conception brought forth by the will of man which is applyed that God got it and fathers it upon God And as for all these Sects which are sprung of you are like no other wayes but like to a Sea and burst into names which went from the spirit of God you are not like to be kept in unity who ravened from the spirit of God the life of Christ and the Apostles was in and to that which you ravened from are people come and coming which stands a-top of you all They that worship God must worship him in spirit which mortifies all sin and corruptions and they that worship God must worship him in truth in that the Devill abode not in To all the Papists upon the Earth TO come out and try their faith and strength without Cains weapons for there was two that did sacrifice and the one killed the other about the sacrifice and whether of these two was excepted can you read your selves and which was the vagabond It 's said that the Pope and the Church of Rome hath the Key and it 's left to them and ye are the keepers of the Key Now if you be keepers of the Key ye are to open to Nations about you and to render a reason of the hope that is in you if the Lord be sanctified in your hearts you will Are you according to the Scriptures Is the practice of your Church according to the Scriptures Is the spirit of the Lord powred upon you and all flesh Doth your sons and your daughters prophesie And if any thing be revealed to another that sits by you and bids another hold his peace that is speaking for you may all prophesie one by one Or are you not like others and the rest of the Sects that will put them in prison and say they have disturbed you and so shew your selves both Reprobates and Hereticks from the Church and the Spirit that the Apostles were in And can you say Christ is in you male and female Or are you not reprobates and say you
your hard speeches against him who be the filthy dreamers defiling the flesh speaking evill of the dignities of the dominions that goes over all transgression which lets see the first transgression that was befo●● transgression was this is dignity and the higher power Now are you not in Cains way and lost the patience that kills slays and murthers let all the world bear witness that be in the fear of God Are not you fallen into the deeds of the Nicholaitans and so like them which said they were Jewes and were not but synagogues of Satan and so do●h not your fruit declare you that you are synagogues of Satan murdering killing And was there not such before Johns decease which said they were Jews and were not which John told should cast into prison and try and many of the faithful Martyrs were slain Have not you held the doctrine of Balaam your Idols and do you not here commit fornication with them and is not this the stumbling-block you here lay for all people Balaam-like and is not the fruits of your Church made up of such And was not the woman Jezebel beginning to teach before Johns decease teaching to seduce the servants of God and to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to Idols and was not all this separated from the true Church these Idols Balaam this Prophetess And hath not these made up your Church which hath the stumbling block the word of the Lord doth try all this Hath not he promised and the Church doth know that he was the Lord that tryeth the reigns and searcheth the heart For is not Jezebels mark upon your fore-heads and your Idols your Church is full of them which defiles the land And do you not kill and slay Jezebel-like and betray and after fast your hands full of blood your heart full of deceit strife and murther Is not this Jezebels teachings Jezebels fast and your Idols Balaams stumbling block And was not this coming up before Johns decease creeping up among the true Church If a true Church fall into these things God removes his Candlestick from them so are you them the Candlestick is not among Therefore you set up great outward Candlesticks among all your Idols and so you have a name of Christians but are dead Thou hast a name of a Christian to live but art dead and so deceives Nations by your name but now you are proved your Church your Ministers all Jezebels mark Balaams stumbling block your Idols you have not repented of your fornications all your Idols God will cast you into your bed of sorrows And now your day of tryal is come and he that overcomes shall be a pillar in the house of God And so you have lost the key and are shut up in darknesse for was not Jezebel a murtherer a slayer and yet did she not fast Did not the Apostles fast and yet were no murtherers nor slayers And at the opening of the 5th Seal was not the cry of the souls heard How long Lord how long wilt not thou be avenged on them that are put to death for the testimony of Jesus and dost not thou avenge our cause O Lord And was not the answer again They should rest a season till the rest of their brethren were killed Now who are the killers who are the murtherers have you not been the killers and murtherers one of another and so out of the true Church and all along apostatized from the true Church Revel. 6. And so are not you them that are brought to poverty among all the earth for want of the vertue of God among all people and choaks them with your Idols and so the bottomless pit hath been opened which hath no foundation your smoak and your locusts hath swarmed abroad so are you not them that fell the Star that fell that fell from the Apostles that fell from the truth Is not your Church made up of locust and have not you worshipped Devils Idols and gold and silver brass wood iron and stone that can neither see nor hear And doth not Iohn speak of this in the Revelations which was distinct from the true Church And is not your Church here found your Idols of brasse of silver of stone and can neither see nor walk Revel. 9. And hath not the two Witnesses been killed which was called the two Olive trees and Candlesticks the Olive trees fruits is the oyl and what doth oyl do Hath not this been killed and the Candlestick which stands before the God of the earth and the great City Sodome and Gomorrha where Christ was crucified and them that crucified him was the professors of Scriptures and you the professors of Scriptures where is the Olive tree now where is the Candlestick How is spiritual Sodom full of your Idols and Images now there is none turnes from the Olive tree and the Candlestick but who are become spiritual Sodome and Aegypt in themselves and consider was not the Dragon cast from Heaven to the Earth and did not he persecute the Wom●n and is not all persecutors of him did not the Woman flee into the Wilderness where hath she been all this time of Idols where hath been the Church was not the man-child caught up to God did not the Dragon make war with the seed which keep the Commands of God did not the Beast rise out of the Sea which had his power and authority from the Dragon who have been like Bears and Lions and Leopards and all the world wondered after the Beast and they wondered after the Dragon which had power from the Beast Now mark where hath the Church been now who is like to the Beast which rose out of the Sea which all the World worshipped which ravened from the Spirit of God which went out from the Apostles in Corahs Cains Balaams way erred from the Spirit of God they like a sea out of truth so here came in the Dragons power which gave the Beast his authority which all the World worshipped which dragon had made war was that which persecuted the Woman And the Beast made war with the Saints and had his power from the Dragon which all that dwelt upon the Earth should worship and over-come the Saints then power was given to the Beast over all tongues kindreds and Nations over all kindreds your tongues your Teachers which saith tongues is the originall Orthodox men which have their learning from tongues hath the Beast power over and all that dwelt upon the Earth should worship him and he should deceive them that dwelt upon the Earth by reason of his miracles he should make Images to the Beast and they should worship the Beast and they should neither buy nor sell but who had the mark of the Beast and his Image now it is the Beast that sets up the Image now here is the Image the Beast here is your Church and here is the Beast that hath his power over all kindreds tongues and Nations and the
representations to put you in mind of Christ and to stir up your love otherwise it would grow cold and that is the nature that will murther and all those things Images Crosses are held up by the spirit of murther and not by the power of God the cross of Christ Pr. In some particulars he saith there is no difference between them and the heathens as first I confesse their Idols are made of silver wood and stone and so are our Images their Idols were but dead creatures which had eyes and see not and so are our Images they bow to their Idols and we bow to our Images so far the resemblance is good and the heathens do believe that their Idols were able to help them and we say our Images and Idols stirs up our love to Christ Answ. So therein the Images helps you as the Heathens do and you may see that all those things are got up since the dayes of the Apostles you that be inwardly ravened from the spiri of God and gotten the sheeps cloathing as the Jews and the Gentiles which was astray from the spirit of God worshipping Images Idols which when the Jews was in the spirit of God they kept above them all So you being gone from the spirit of the Lord are fallen under Images and dead Idols since the days of the Apostles and bows down to them as the heathens they are dead a● the Heathens and so you are aposta●ized from the spirit of God in which God is worshipped and apostatized from the true Church who said Keep your selves from Idols for there was never any talk of worshipping of Images and bowing to Images amongst them but the Jewes while they lived in the law of God they broke down the Images of the Heathens so all that be in the life of God will break down the founder of the Images amongst you Apostates which sees not and hears not And Jeremiah saying to them that worshipped Images who said unto a stone thou art my father and to the wood thou hast brought me forth So say you to your Images Pictures and Crosses thou putst us in minde thou art our similitude and puts us in minde of Christ of Mary and shewing that you have not the minde of Christ in you but dead stocks and stones must put you in minde so this of yours is a higher mystery of iniquity then that of the heathen Pr. You say you account of the pictures no more then we account of any picture or pictures in our houses Answ. That is not so thou dost not speak with the bit in thy mouth we do not fall down to them but deny them Pr. And the heathens did all kinde of godly honour directly to their Idols but the small honour which we do to the Images or pictures of the Saints is no more then an outward complement as I may say just as it was the fashion in England to put off ones hat or bow to the Kings Throne in honour of the King Neither do we this honour to the pictures simply considered as pictures but as they are representations of Christ and his Saints Answ. That honour which the heathen did to their Idols was not godly honour for that which gave the honour to the Idols might be confounded before that came up that gave the godly honour to God though they worshipped the creatures and served idols who should have worshipped the Creator who is God blessed for ever and served him and your bowing and kneeling down to Images and before them it is the worship of the Beast and that is more then a complement to kneel down and bow down to Images which you call representations and this is come up and got up amongst you since the power of God hath been lost which should have brought you to have bowed down to the Lord and to have prayed in the spirit and to have had him in your mindes and not an Idoll to put him in your minds And the bowing before the Kings Throne in the Kings absence and the hat in England that is but the dead minde that bows the dead hat to the dead throne and a dead honour and so all the honour that is given to Images is but a dead honour given from the dead principle and not from the living principle of God within which brings to worship God who never accepts the other and that bowing the hat before the Kings Throne in the Kings absence is denyed by all that fears God and judged and worships him and bows to him for that is sup●rstition your bowing before images and pictures and crosses as bad worse then that prof●sse Christ and have him not in your minds then the heathens bowing to Molock Baal Jupiter Bac●hus Venus c whose spirits are as unclean as theirs who have set up Images and Crosses to bow down to them You are the unclean spirits as the heathen and a higher mystery of iniquity then the heathen but now is discovered by that which hath long been hid by the light Christ Jesus and the seed of God which hath discovered the mystery of iniquity which is the mistery of godlin●sse and all these pictures crosses and bowings is come up since the days of the Apostles for amongst them there was no such things Amongst you who have lost the power of God the Crosse of Christ and the image of God and has not the mind of Christ in you so are fain to have dead images crosses and pictures which you call representations to put your dead minds in remembrance of Christ and to stir it up which kills and slayes the just all that be contrary to it and the heathen and you do not differ for they bow to Images and so do you but yours as I have said is a greater mistery of iniquity who has fled from the true foundation of the true Church which is the pillar and ground of truth and so since have got up your images and idols Pr. Now because the main thing which you do carp at is at our bowing before Images or pictures of the Saints to the end that all your mouths may eternally be stopt I will shew you out of the Scripture that notwithstanding the bowing down to Idols is most strictly forbidden in the second command●ment and other places of Scripture yet was it lawfull both to make honour and bow down to other images and other representations although they were but dead creatures and the worke of mens hands The Arke of the Covenant you must confess was but a dead creature made of wood and other materials by the hands of men and upon this Arke were placed two Images or representations of Cherubims read the 7 of Joshua vers. 6. and you will finde that he and all Israel did worship and fall down before this Ark and these Images after the same manner that we fall down before a Crosse or a Crucifix or the Images of the Saints Answ.
the life of the world to come 6 Prin. I admit and embrace most firmely the traditions Apostolique and Ecclesiastick and all the other observations and ordinances of the same Church Answ. Your traditions your word Catholique your sprinkling Infants which you call your baptisme does not remit your sins for there is no Scripture for it so Church traditions sprinkling Infants all have got up since the dayes of the Apostles and so the unholy Catholique and Apostolique Church traditions is got up since the dayes of the Apostles and your fruits declare it in the Apostacy from the true Church of the Saints and Apostles and the resurrection Christ you be ignorant of and the power of the world to come that be gone out of the faith that the Apostles were in 7 Prin. I admit also the holy Scripture according to the sense that hath been given by the holy mother Church to the which it appertaineth to judge of the true sense and interpretations of the holy Scripture and shall never take in hand to interpret them then according to the common consent of the Fathers Answ. Your mother which you call the holy Church which gives the sense is the whore from the spirit of God which the Apostles was in and Christ and the Prophets for that is it that knows the Scripture and that was in the Saints that gave it forth and all must have it in them before they know the words again and come into unity with God again of whom they learned that gave it forth and unity with the Scripture and one with another and this both Papists and Protestants are out of the spirit and falling out about the sense of Scripture and your Father and Mother sons which ravened from the spirit of God and so thou and you all teachers from others inventions and your teaching is traditions for Doctrine which are the commands of men but now to the Lord be glory ye are all discovered by his life 8 Prin. More I professe that there is seven truly and properly said Sacraments of the new Law instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ and necessary for the salvation of humane people but not all to every one viz. Baptism Confirmation Eucharist penitence the extream unction the Order and Marriage and that they confirme the grace and that among them the baptisme the confirmation and the order cannot be rejected without sacriledge Answ. In this you have shewed your Apostacy again from the Apostles and Christs doctrine which sayes Go preach the Gospell to all nations baptizing them without any limit and Marriage they that forbid that is the doctrine of Devils which is honourable the Bed undefiled in all And the Apostles doth not call them Sacraments neither Baptisme nor Marriage nor the visiting of the sick nor the Lords Supper Your confirmation and order and your penitence whipping and beating your selves for your sins is your own invention a sacrament of your owne making which the Apostle does not call repentance a sacrament or confessing of sin or sorrowing for sin the nature within should be afflicted and circumcised in the spirit which puts off the body of sin and that brought down and not to strike the creature and beat the creature that is as you wrestle with flesh and blood the power of darknesse causes you to do that which guides you within that strikes at the creature which power of darknesse should be struck at that the creature might come into the liberty of the sons of God 9 Prin. I receive also and admit the Ceremonies of the Church Catholique receive and approve in the administration solemnly of all the abovesaid sacraments 10 Prin. I embrace and receive all and every of the things which hath been defined and declared by the sacred holy Councel of Trent touching the sin originall and the justification 11 Prin. I protest likewise that in the masse is offered to God true proper and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and for the dead and that in the most holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is truly really and substantially the body the blood with the soule and the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and that there is made a conversion of all the substance of the bread into the body and of all the substance of the wine into the blood and the which conversion the Church Catholique calls Transubstantiation 12 Prin. I confess also that under one of these one receiveth Jesus Christ all entire and one true sacrament Answ. In these four Principles which ye teach for Doctrine is but your owne traditions and commandements which are learned of one another of men at the Council of T●ent and at your Fathers which is your sin in the apostacy from the Apostles who was not of man nor by man And as concerning Justification ye are ignorant of for where that is known the sin is done away which came by the first Adam And they that believe are passed from death to life And there are some children of believers which is holy yet all by nature children of wrath in the unbelief and your Church is held up by tradition and traditions and vows and oaths which is all in the Apostacy from the spirit where it seems the root of the word protesting is come from your selves who are Apostates and not ftom the Scriptures but you have thrust it in your offering and mass it is but a dead thing it is neither good for the dead nor the living the living do not accept of it but as Cains sacrifice for are not you murtherers and destroyers of one another about Religion sacrifice and traditions as Cain did whom God did not accept his sacrifice And as the Jewes did without the life which gave forth the Scriptures turn against the just and all the Apostates since the dayes of the Apostles which are inwardly ravened from the spirit of God who set up all your lying signes and wonders and traditions and deceive people with them that dwell upon the earth who be from the spirit of God inwardly ravened from it in which spirit God is worshipped which spirit brings to offer living sacrifice And the bread and wine after they have consecrated it which you say is the very body and blood of Christ and soule and it 's divine and that ye call Transubstantiation and he that receives either bread or wine receives Christ Now seeing that this Doctrine and Principle is laid down by you the Council of Trent and tollerated by the great Bishop of Rome the Pope and taught by the Jesuites I shall demand one thing of you out of every Nation and from every Dominion and Island belonging to the Bishop of Rome the Pope Let there come forth a Bishop and a Jesuite and consecrate bread and wine and after consecration and conversion which you call transubstantiation which you say then is the very body blood and soul of Christ which is divine Let that then be set by and kept and let us take of
lives unto the death And sometimes they have been more visible and sometimes lesse yet two or three that know the name of Christ and live in the power of Christ Christ is in the midst of them and they may be truly said to be a Church of Christ and these God hath promised to be with who believeth in Christ the power of God to the end of the world and against these the gates of hell shall never prevail And whereas thou saist He gave some Apostles and some Evangelists Pastors and Teachers for the worke of the Ministry for the perfecting of the Saints This is granted and it did and doth effect the same end for which he gave it But when ordained he the Popes the Cardinals the Fryars the Monks the Jesuites the Nun● for the work of the Ministry or whether have any of all these effected the same things which the Apostles did by their gifts But rather on the contrary They have perverted the straight way of the Lord and have made the word of God of none effect by their traditions and hath introduced and brought in those things to be observed amongst people which God hath neither commanded nor commended but on the contrary forbidden and condemned 3 Prin. That all those people or Congregations or meetings or Churches which have not been constantly visible from Christs time till now are not nor cannot be the Church of Christ and then thou makes this conclusion that the Roman Church can shew its constant and successive visibility from Christs time till now therefore the Roman Church must needs be the Church of Christ Answ. By thy own words thou hast proved your Church to be no Church of Christ neither your officers and Ministers to be Ministers of Christ for Matthew Mark Luke and John Peter Paul and the rest of the Apostles makes no mention of any such officers as Po●es Cardinals Fryars Monks nor Jesuites neither of any such doctrine did they allow of as you preach to wit the doct●ine of Devils in forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats wch God hath created and also teac●ing to make Images and set up Images and Idols and also teaching to burn and kill and destroy them whom you call Hereticks which Christ nor none of the Apostles ever did So that it is manifest from the Scripture of truth that your visible Church was not always since Christs day for Peter Paul and many of the Apostles lived after Christs day and they make no mention of any such ministry doctrine or practice as is found amongst you onely foretels of you and prophesies of you that Antichrist should come Deceivers should come and false prophets should come and Peter whose successors you say you are he foretold of you and hath left his testimony against you against them who preach for filthy lucre those things the Apostles taught not Amongst many things this is one in teaching and making people believe a purgatory after they be dead and this was invented by you to get filthy lucre and to get dishonest gain Another thing to give pardons that you may get money and filthy lucre so that it is manifest you are none of Peters successors but are apostatized from the faith from the doctrine from the practice of Christ of the Churches of Christ in the dayes of the Apostles and were not visible then nor counted the Church of Christ by any in many years a●ter the decease of the Apostles But the false Prophets that Christ spake should come which John and Paul and Peter saw creeping in then who erred from the faith and apostatized from the truth who subverted whole housholds from the faith there 's your originall they that did subvert and they that were subverted and held part of the form of godlinesse denyed the power there is the beginning of your visible Church Antichrists false Prophets Seducers and seduced you are their successors and from thence your visibility came to be seen in the world So in that which I have said doth clearly evidence that you have not constantly visibly had the name of a Church since Christs time although you call your selves the ancient Church And I say unto thee in thine owne words Except thou be bewitched and possessed with a spirit of blindnesse here is enough to convince thee and all thy visible members that your Roman Church is not so ancient as Christ nor the Apostles But you are quite another thing which hath sprung up since and are apostatized from the Doctrine and from the Faith which the Churches which were before you were in as the Church at Jerusalem at Antioch and the rest of the Churches which had received the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ without respect of persons from which faith you are now reprobated 4 Principle Thou saist that Luther Calvin Memno Beza and others were first popish Priests and those that followed them was first of the Church of Rome and these thou saist fell from the Faith and were accounted by you Hereticks and sayes they ought to produce more evidence for their faith which they professed being separated from you then you need to do from whom they separated Answ. They are Hereticks who denies the true foundation and who erre from the true faith which the Saints possessed and and lived in But your visible Church have left the true foundation and have erred from the faith which Christ and the Apostles declared and lived in therefore you are the Hereticks Therefore Luther Calvin Memno and Beza and the rest seeing your Doctrine Principles and Faith to be contrary to the Doctrine of Christ and the Primitive Churches God opening their eyes and let them see that you had innovated and brought in another Doctrine and other practices then had been taught or practised amongst the Apostles therefore they denyed yo● in many things although they were not clearly come off your principles nor did not see clearly thorow your deceit yet so far as they saw by the light of the Lord they bore testimony against you and gave a clearer demonstration that you were out of the faith then you ever did or can do that you were in the Faith But that is made manifest in this the day of the Lords power which sees over you and beyond you and comprehends your ground and all the body of your Religion which stands in imitations imaginations inventions and traditions And further thou saith that you can bring more Scripture for your Catholique doctrin then they that are separated from you and thou brings two Scriptures to prove some of your doctrine and sayest that the Church of Rome teaches that Christs body is reall in the Sacrament for which thou brings the 11 Cor. 23 24. verses which proves nothing to the purpose for the body of Christ is incorruptible and saw no corruption But bread corrupt● and will corrupt notwithstand●ng all your consecration but as concerning this I shall refer the