aduersaryes to theyr pestyferouse heresyes Tyndale He supposeth that he loueth his neyghbour as mych as he is bounde yf he be not actually angrye wyth hym whom yet he wyll not helpe frely wyth an halfpenny but for auauntage or vayne glorye or for a worldly purpose If any man haue displeased hym he kepeth his malyce in and wyll not chaâ—e hym self aboute yt tyll he se an occasyon to auenge yt craftely and thynketh that well inâ—ugh And the rulers of the worlde he obeyth thynketh he wheÌ„ he flatereth them and byndeth them wyth gyftes and corrupteth the offycers with rewardes and begyleth the law wyth cauteles and sotyltyes And because the loue of god and his neyghbour whych is the spyryte and the lyffe of all lawes and wherfore all lawes ar made is not writen in his herte therfore in all inferiour lawes and in all worldly ordynaunces is he betell blynde More All this gere is but a fardell full of lyes and that woteth Tyndale hym selfe well inough For all be yt that there be mo theÌ„ inough that in the catholycall chyrch of Cryste that vse to coÌ„mytte such synnes yet vse they not to thynke that they do well and fulfyll the law of god in doynge but they both byleue and confesse the contrarye and to theyr confessour knowlege yt as yt is for synne For though men in the catholyque chyrch do synne yet to take yt for no synne but for holynes vertue this is neyther the doctryne nor maÌ„ner gyâ—e of the catholyque chyrch of Cryste But this is in very dede the belyeâ— or at the leâ—te wyse the gyse and custome of Tyndales chyrch Luthers and frere Huskens For they haue the loue of god and theyr neyghbour the spyryte and lyfe of all lawes so well and wysely wryten in theyr hartes that they can not be but feruently taken in theyr lewde lecherouse loue nor be not in inferiour lawes and worldly ordynaunces so betyll blynded but that a frere can fynde the way to a nunnes bed and it be at mydnyght and after in the open day abyde thereby and auowe the breche of theyr vowe boldely for very well done and holyly and when he thus doeth begyleth not the lawes wyth cawtels and subtyltees but boldely breketh them vp lyke a stronge man and bereth it owt bygly wyth shamelesse deuelysshe heresye Tyndale And yf he be commaunded to absteyne from wyne that wyll he obserue vntâ— the deth to as charterhouse munkes had leuer dye then eate fleshe And as for the sobernes and chastysynge of the members wyll he not loke for but wyll powre in ale and beare of the strongeste wythout measure and heate them with spyces and so forth More As for the munkes of the charterhouse wolde god we were no ferther from very vertuouse deuocyon then those good men be from vnlawfull superstycyon amonge whom god be thanked we se many lyue to very greate age and neuer herde I yet that any dyed for lacke of eatynge flesshe yet herdeâ— I neuer that any of them haue eaten any sauyng some suche as haue comen from theyr cloysters in to Luthers chyrche as Otho dyd in Almayne whyche ronne out of the charter house and lefte fysshe and fell to flesshe all togyder and toke a wyfe for sobrenesse and chastysynge of his monkely membres as Tyndale speketh Tyndale And the holy daye wyll he kepe so strayte that yf he mete a flee in hys bedde he dare not kyll her and not ones regarde wheâ—fore the holy day was ordeyneâ— to seke for goddes worde and so forth in all lawes More Tyndale I thynke hath not knoweÌ„ many kepe the holy day so strayte yâ— wolde feare to kyll a flee as it pleaseth hym to ieste But yetâ— aâ— I leuer yâ— men â—old kepe it so strayt as he speketh theiâ— kepe it so losely as they do But they yâ— kepe iâ—â—o losely be neythâ—r afeâ—d I warrâ—â—t you to kyll a fle nor to do â—â—rs neyther And who so euer wold kepe it so strayt as 〈…〉 of aâ—â—e in hys bed wolde kepe it bettâ—r then do the 〈◊〉 of Luthers câ—â—â—che that let not on the holy 〈◊〉 to 〈…〉 to 〈◊〉 For as for herynge of goddys worde in many places in Almayne among theyr holy sectys where they were in the begynnyng wonderfull hote vppon sermons they be now blessed by god waxen colde inough Fyrst in many places they sange the seruyce in theyr mother tonge men and women and all and that was a prety sporte for them for a whyle But after a lytell vse therof the pleasure of the neweltye passed and they set somwhat lesse therby then by a thre mannes songe They chaunged also the masse and sone after that many cast it vp cleâ—e Then was all theyr luste layed vppon prechynge specyally bycause euery man myghte preche that wolde sayenge that they folowed the counsayle of saynt Paule whyle one wolde byd the precher holde hys peace aâ—â— let hym speke a nother whyle 1. Ceri 14 affyrmynge that the spyryâ—◠〈◊〉 reucled hym the right sense and that the precher lyed 〈◊〉 â—â—s turned they sermons in brawlynges so that somtyme tâ—e people parted them from poyntynge theyr prechynges wyth systeâ—â— But now as I here saye that maner is well amended thâ—â—â—an suffer one to preche as longe as it please hym and no man ones interrupte hym for they be there waxeâ— womeÌ„ and all so cunnynge that scantly come any to here hym And thus doeth Tyndales chyrche and Luthers syt at home in theyr stewys in honour of theyr holy daye Tyndale And in ceremonyes and sacramentes there be câ—pt yuateth his wyt and vnderstandyngâ— to obey holy chyrch wythout askynge what they meane or desyrynge to knowe but onely careth for the kepynge and loketh euer wyth a payre of narow eyes and wyth all his spestacles vppon theym leste ought be lefte oute More The ceremonyes and sacrameÌ„tes Tyndale maketh his mokkynge stokke but let hym beware by tyme lest god mokke hym agayne Better is it good 〈◊〉 reader to do the thynge that Tyndale here reproueth that is to wyt a 〈…〉 hys wytte and vnderstandynge and obâ—◠〈…〉 in the ceremonyes and sacraâ—â—â—â—â—â— and 〈…〉 well wythoute ferther serche then to do as 〈…〉 done that with hys curyouse serche hath s◠〈…〉 pryed vppon them wyth betle broâ—es and his brytâ—â— spectacles of pryde and malice that the deuyll hath stryâ—en hym starke 〈◊〉 and set hym in a corner wyth a chayne and a clogge made hym hys ape to syt there and serue hym and to make hym sporte with mokkynge and mowynge and pottynge the sacramentes whyche yet the deuyll dredyth hym selfe dare not come anere them Tyndale For yf the preste sholde saye masâ—e baptyze or here confessyon wythoute a stole aboute his necke he wolde thynke all were marred and doute whyther he had power to consecrate and thynke that the vertue of the masse were lâ—ste and that chylde not well baptysed or not baptyzed at all and that his absolucyon
hys apostels byleue suche a few flesshly blynde apostatas agaynst so many holy blessyd doctours and sayntes what excuse coude hys ignorans haue afore god were not he a very oxe an asse wyth out wyt or vnderstandyng Tyndale Iudge therfore crysten reader whyther the pope wyth his be the chyrche More when Tyndale speketh of the pope wyth hys here vseth he a lytell sophystrye For he leueth vs in dowte what he meaneth by these wordes the pope wyth hys If he meane the pope wyth hys cardynals then speketh he lytell to the purpose For I neuer called nor no man ellys the pope and the cardynals the hole catholyke chyrche But yf he meane by the pope and hys the pope and all the crysten reames and countrees that haue not by scysmes and heresyes departed and seuered them selfe from the corps of crystendome he that then iudgeth the pope and hys to be the chyrche of cryste iudgeth as it is in dede Now yf Tyndale brynge in questyon whyther the pope be of all those crysten countrees the chyefe spyrytuall hed vnder god and generall vycare of cryste thys questyoÌ„ wyll not helpe hym For yf there eyther yet be or any tyme hath ben that eyther the Grekes or any other parte of trewe crystendome dyd not recognyse the pope for theyr chyefe spyrytuall gouernour vnder god yet alwaye those that were lernyd or good men amonge them and the hole people wyth them in the necessarye artycles were of the same fayth and confyrmed them selfe to the see of Rome in such thynges as amonge them bygan to be disputable as well appereth not onely by saynte Chrysostome and other olde holy doctoâ—â—s of the Grekes but also by the generall counsayles in which the Grekes in matters of dowte and questyon fynally confermed them selfe to the Latyns and to the see apostolyke And for conclusyon bothe the Latyn chyrch the Greke chyrche and pretour IohnÌ„s chyrche to and euery chyrche that bare the name of any good crystendome ye and euery chyrche also of any honest heretykes to and the chyrche of Panymes and Turkes to and the chyrche of Saracyns to syth Tyndale wyll haue them all called chyrches and fynally the chyrche of all mankynde synnes the erth was well inhabyted as many as euer haue knowen so mych as the name of god hath euer hytherto dampned the chyrche of Luther and Tyndale frere Huskyn that care not to breke theyr promyse made to god and contrary to all honestye make mokkes of theyr vowes and voyde of shame auow theyr fylthy lechery for honeste wedlocke and lawfull matrymonye Tyndale Iudge whyther theyr author yte be aboue the scrypture whether all that they teache wythoute scrypture be equall wyth the scripture whyther they haue erred and not onely whyther they can More Iudge here good reader whyther that Tyndale playe the parte of an honest man when the power authoryte whiche the chyrche ascrybeth vnto god and hys holy spyryte Tyndale wolde make you byleue that they do take and ascrybe it vnto them selfe For no man sayth that any man is aboue the worde of god but we saye boldely that hys worde vnwryten is egall and as stronge as hys worde wryten and that he is aswell to be byleued wythout wrytynge as wyth wrytynge that hym selfe and hys holy spyryte vnderstondeth hys owne wrytynge better then all the creatures of the hole worlde And then we say also that god by the mouth of our sauyour hath promysed that hymselfe wyth hys holy spyryte shall euer be assystent with hys â—hyrch that he shall alwaye instructe hys chyrche and lede it in to euery trouth Matth. 28. IohnÌ„ 16 And we say that he kepeth and â—uer hath kepte and euer shall kepe that promyse And therfore we say that he teacheth hys chyrch all trewth I meane all trewth necessary as hym self meant for theyr saluacyon that is to wytte all suche thynge as he wyll vppon payne of damnacyon haue them bounden to byleue I say also that vppon thys it muste nedys folow that all be it our lord doeth suffer his chyrche to erre in the knowledge of a â—â—â—te or dede done among men yet wyll he neuer suffer yt to erre and be deceyued in the knowledge of hys lawe to whych he wyll haue it bounden and in the tyme in whyche he wyll haue it bounden therto And therfore wyll he neuer suffer hys chyrche to take repute iudge a thynge for synfull and damnable that is of trouthe good pleasynge to god For then sholde he therby cause hys chyrche to leue good vertuose thynges vndone them selfe and also to forebede it other folke as thynges vycyouse and dyspleasaunt to god and then were hys promyse broken syth that the holy goost had not then tawght them the trouthe necessary but had suffred them to be ledde in to dampuable vntrowth Then saye I ferder that yt consequently foloweth also that god shall mych lesse suffer his chyrche to take for good and pleasynge to god the thynge that is very nought and odyouse vnto god and damnable to yt selfe For then shold his chyrche by such errour not onely leue the good vndone but also do the euyll and not know whych way to mende it And of these thynges I saye that yt foloweth necessaryly that though the chyrch be not aboue the scripture and holy wryt yet yt is so taught by the spyryte of god and his holy secrete in warde worde vnwrytten that yt can not be dampnably deceyued in the vnderstandynge of his holy scrypture wryten And theruppon yet farther foloweth that all such as so conster the scrypture that they wolde make the scrypture seme to be contrarye to the fayth of Cristes chyrch do damnably conster yt contrary to the teachynge of god and his holy spiryte whyche by his owne promyse dothe alwaye teache his chyrche and alwaye ledeth yt and alway shall lede yt in to euery necessary trouth and that vnto th ende of the worlde accordynge to the wordes of our sauyour Cryste hym selfe Of these poyntes Tyndale denyeth vs thre One is that any thynge is certaynly to be byleued excepte onely the scripture and yet that muste be as Luther sayth euydent open and playne of whych the coÌ„trary hath ben so often proued vnto hym so euydent open and playne that if Tyndale were not euydent open and playne shamelesse his herte wold neuer serue hym for very shame to speke any more of that poynt The tâ—ther poynte is that he denyeth the catholyke knoweÌ„ chyrch to be the chyrch of Cryste and putteth yt in question whych is the chyrch and fynally putteth for the chyrche of Criste here militaunt in erth the onely secret vnknoweÌ„ folke that are predestynate The Thyrde is that he putteth also in questyon whyther the chyrche maye fall in to dampnable errour And thereto he sayth that the chyrche of electes doth erre but yet it doth not erre And for asmych as these thynges be the chyefe thynges wherof
hys owne holy spyryte shall dwell therwyth all dayes vnto the worldes ende then be we sure not onely whyche are the holy scryptures and the sure holsome exposycyons therof but also whych are the tradycyoÌ„s delyuered vnto the chyrche by god of whythe some were delyuered by the apostles them selfe and some by hys holy spyryte synnes And what so euer Tyndale bable to the contrary god is yet at as mych lybertye to teache hys chyrche forther what trouth he wyll hereafter and to delyuer it what tradycyon he wyll hereafter and to commaunde hys hole chyrche to byleue and obaye hym therm as well I saye hereafter as euer he was before For I wolde fayne wytte of Tyndale yf the hole chyrch shall neuer byleue nor do nothynge as of necessyte but that is all redy wryten in scrypture why shall any one man be bounden to byleue or do any thynge as of necessyte though god byd hym by mouth yf it be not wryten in scrypture And yf he wyll saye no more maye any one man be boundeÌ„ neyther then putteth he away quyte all reuelacyoÌ„s whych I neuer herd any man hytherto deny but that god maye reuele and man be bounden to byleue and obaye And surely yf he graunte that any one man maye be bounden therto so maye then for aught that I can se or aught that he can saye the hole chyrche in lyke wyse Fynally there is no dowte but that ere the new testameÌ„t was wryten men were bounden to byleue thynges without scrypture And then syth Tyndale wyll nothynge byleue vs wythout scrypture and he maye not loke of reason that we sholde any more byleue hym wythout scrypture then he vs let Tyndale now tell me therfore by whyche texte of scrypture in all that is wryten is that bond releaced and dyscharged And where are we eyther commaunded or lycenced nothyng to byleue but yf it be conteyned in that scrypture that is now wryten whyche thynge yf he can not shewe â—as he can not in dede then abydeth that bond styll to byleue the thynges that the catholyke chyrche techeth vs as the worde of god to be byleued and yet vnwryten as the same bonde stode and bounde vs before to byleue those necessary thynges that now be wryten Now yf Tyndale answere thys argument and saye that he nedeth not to laye forth any texte of scrypture dyschâ—rgynge vs of that bonde but that it is inough for hym to proue that all thynge that is of necessyte is by the apoâ—â—â—es wryten and that no suche thynge as we be bounden to â—â—leue or do is by them selfe vnwryten yf Tyndale answere vs thus then is he but wheâ—e he was For then shall we yet agayne do as he nedys muste and neuer may brynge in one texte of scrypture by whyche he maye proue that all suche thynges be wryten whyche thynge when he can not do yf he wyll then be playne and confesse the trouth that he can not proue hys owne parte but wyll then byd vs proue our owne parte and wyll tell vs that lyke as he sayth that the apostles dâ—d put all in wrytynge wherof he fayleth hys profe so we saye that they dyd leue dyuers thynges vnwryten and that of those be some of such thynges as the chyrche now byleueth and obserueth that are not wryten in scrypture and wyll byd vs go proue hym that for our parte and wyll saye that ellys he is no more bounden to byleue vs then we be to byleue hym yf Tyndale wyll as I saye confesse the trouth that he can not proue hys owne parte and therfore wyll byd vs go proue ours then shall we tell hym that we proue oures by the manyfolde playne textes of holy scrypture afore remembred bothe of saynt JohnÌ„ of saynt Poule myghte yet adde dyuers other wyth whyche Rosseus an englysshe man hath longe a go proued that poynte vnto Luther and that so clerely that as Tyndale knoweth Luther was neuer able to answere one worde agayne And I saye ferther that we proue our parte that is to wyt that the apostles gaue thynges vnto the chyrche wythout wrytynge whyche haue in the chyrche contynued besyde the scrypture thys I saye we proue to Tyndale by the selfe same meanys by whyche Tyndale proueth vs that he knoweth the scrypture to be the scryptureâ— For yf he wyll saye as he sayeth in hys boke agaynste meâ— that he knoweth the scrypture by the same meanes that the eagle knoweth her byrdes meanyng that as she knoweth theÌ„ by a secrete inwarde instincte of nature so he knoweth the scrypture by a secrete inwarde instyncte of the spiryte of god I saye that we know the tradycyons taught by god and hys apostles by the same secrete inwarde instyncte of the same spiryte But then saye we farther that the same spiryte dyd teache the chirche to know whych was the very scrypture byfore it dyd teche yâ— Tyndale And Tindale had not byleued that the scrypture was the scrypture yf the chirche hadde not tolde hym so Nor the holy spyryte hadde not wrought wyth Tyndale towarde the bylyefe therof yf Tyndale when the chyrche tolde hym so hadde done as he doth sette the chyrche at nought For synnes that he so hath done he not onely byleueth not the tradycyons of god geuen to his chyrche by his apostles and his worde vnwryten but also byleueth lesse of the scrypture then he dyd byfore And I saye that god by hys worde vnwryten dyd teache his chyrche to know his wordes wryten and his tradycions also whyche he taught the chyrche by his apostles and made the chyrche agre therin by his spyryte whiche maketh men of one mynde and one custome in the chyrche and whyche spiryte kepeth both the wordes wryten and the wordes vnwriten in perpetuall knowledge and obseruaunce in his chyrche accordynge as the very worde of god vnwryten that is hys naturall worde of hym selfe bygoten seeth necessarye abydynge wyth his chirche for euer accordynge to his owne promyse And now if Tyndale aske with which chyrche I saye wyth hys catholyque chyrche wyth hys chirche in whyche onely chirche he wurketh miracles wyth his chirche whyche he commauÌ„deth men to here and obay and fynally wyth the same chirche by whyche chirche Tyndale lerned to know whych is the scripture whych chirch lette Tyndale tell me why he shold not as well byleue when yt telleth hym these thynges the apostles dyd teache and dâ—lyuer wythout wrytynge as he byleueth yt when yt telleth hym these bokes the apostles dyd wryte If nothynge hadde be wryten Tyndale muste haue byleued the chirche in all to gether And why sholde he now for the wrytyng of parte for that all is wryten ye se well he can not proue byleue the chyrch the lesse in the remanaunt that remayneth yet vnwryten or for that that was wryten at one tyme byleue the chyrche the lesse in all that yt teacheth after vnwryten whyche thynge Tyndale doth and that so farre forth that where as god worketh mirycles
¶ The cōfutacyon of Tyndales answere made by syr Thomas More knyght lorde chaūcellour of Englonde ¶ Prentyd at London By wyllyam Rastell 1532 CVM PRIV 〈…〉 ¶ The preface to the crysten reader OUr lorde sende vs nowe some yeres as plentuouse of good corne as we haue hadde some yeres of late plentuouse of euyll bokes For they haue growen so faste and sprongen vppe so thykke full of pestylent errours and pernyciouse he resyes that they haue enfected and kylled I fere me mo sely symple soules thē the famyne of the dere yeres haue destroyed bodyes And surely no lytle cause there is to drede that the great haboundaunce and plentye of the tone is no lytle cause and occasyon of the great derth and scarcite of the tother For syth that our lorde of his especyall prouydence vseth temporally to punyshe the hole people for the synnys of some parte to cōpell the good folke to forbere abhorre the noughty wherby they maye brynge them to amendement and auoyd them selfe the cōtagyō of theyr cōpanye wysdome were it for vs to perceyue y◠lyke as folke beginne now to delyte in fedyng theyr soules of the venemouse caryn of those poysened heresyes of whyche maye well be veryfyed the wordes of holy wryt 4. Regum 4. deth is in the pot our lorde lykewyse agaynwarde to reuenge yt wythall begynneth to wythdraw hys gracyouse hande from the frutes of the erth mynyshynge the fertylyte both in corne and catell and bryngynge all in derth myche more then men can remedy or fully fynde out the cause And yet bysyde thys somwhere he sendeth warre sykenesse and mortalyte to punyshe in the fleshe that odyouse and hatefull synne of the soule that spoyleth the frute from all maner of vertues I meane vnbylyefe false fayth and infydelyte and to tell you all at ones in playne englyshe heresye And I say that god nowe bygynneth For I fere me surely that excepte folke begynne to reforme that fawte the soner god shall not fayle in suche wyse to go forwarde that we shall well perceyue and fele by thencreace of our greyfe that all this gere hytherto is but a begynning yet The prophete Hely as it is wryten in the thyrde boke of kynges for the infydelyte and idolatry that then was vsed in Israell by his hartye prayour made vnto god kepte that whole cuntre frō rayne by the space of .iii. yeres and a halfe not of euyll wyll or malyce but of deuocyon and pytye by the payne pynchynge of the bodyes to compell men to remember they re soules whyche ellys were in parell of peryshynge by false idolatrye Nowe all be yt that these bolde shamelesse heretyques haue of longe whyle neyther letted nor ceaced falsely to insymulate and accuse the chyrche of god callynge all good crysten people idolatres for honourynge of sayntes and reuerēt byhauour vsed at theyr images yet that haue they done so farre agaynste theyr owne conscyence by whyche them selfe well wote that the chirche vseth to sayntes and ymages none honour but ordinate not honouryng images but for the sayntes sake nor sayntes but for the sake of god neyther image as saynte nor saynt as god this knoweth I say Tyndale hym selfe so well and thereby so farre hath rayled agaynste his owne conscyence that nowe at the laste in his answere to my boke he retreateth so farre bakke that he reuoketh almoste all that euer he sayde byfore is fayne now to graunte that cristen men may haue images knele byfore them to as ye shall hereafter se when we shall come to the place But we on the tother syde saye playnely vnto them that the thynges wherwyth they corrupte the worlde are of infydelyte and faythlesse idolatrye the very moste cursed kynde The chyefe euyll in an idole was that yt bare the name of god eyther yt selfe or the deuyll that yt represented and beyng so reputed and wurshyped for god robbed the reuerence and deuoute honour fro god Now when Tyndale calleth his heresyes by the name of fayth and maketh men serue the deuyll whyle they wene to serue god what abomynable idolatrye is this If yt be idolatry to put truste in the deuyll serue the deuyll wyth fayth yt is worse then idolatrye to make men wene they serue god wyth fayth whyle they dyspyte hym wyth a false bylyefe And yf it be very infydelyte to do as the Turkes do byd men byleue in Machometes alchoran yt is more infydelyte to do as Tyndale hath done purposely mysse translate Crystes holy gospell to sette forth heresyes as euyll as the Alchorane And yf it be idolatry to do as the paynēs dyd make an idole god yt muste nedes be myche worse idolatry to do as these heretykes do that call god the cause of all euyll and therby make god not a vayne idole but a very deuyll And what can be worse kynd of infydelyte◠then to make bokes of heresyes and call them the ryght fayth And what more abomynable infydelyte then to abuse the scrypture of god to the colour of theyr false bylyef◠And what can be a worse bylyefe then to byleue that the sacramentes that god hath ordeyned by his holy spyryte be but inuencyons of man or as Tyndale sayth of confessyon but inuencyon of the deuyll And what can be worse bylyefe then to byleue that goddes word is not to be byleued but yf yt be put in wrytyng Or what can be a worse bylyefe then to byleue y◠mennis good wurkes be they neuer so well done be yet nothyng worthe nor the man neuer the better for them nor no rewarde for them commyng towarde man in heuen Or what can be a wurse bylyefe thē to byleue that a man doth wronge to pray for hys fathers soule Or what can be a wurse bylyefe then to byleue that a man may as sleyghtely regarde whytson sonday◠as hokke monday and as boldely eate fleshe on good frydaye as on shroue tuysdaye And what can be a wurse bylyefe then to byleue that none other synne can dampne a man but onely lakke of bylyefe And yf yt be idolatrye to do as the Paynems do geue wurshyppe vnto an idole how myche is yt wurse then idolatrye to do as Tyndale doth forbed vs to geue wurshippe to the very bodye and blessed blood of god in the holy sacrament of the auter These pestylent infydelytees and these abominable kyndes of idolatryes farre excede◠and passe and incomparbly more offende the maieste of our lorde god then all the secretynge vppe of Beel and Baal and Belzabub and all the deuyls in hell wherfore lyke as in other places where these heresyes haue taken deper rote ben more sprede abrode god hath taken more depe and sore vengeaunce not onely by derth and deth but also by batayle and sworde so is yt to be fered that for the receypte of these pestylent bokes our lorde sendeth vs some lakke of corne and catayle for a begynnynge and wyll not fayle
sure that thys newe fayth of Luther Tyndall and frere Huskyn is very fonde and false and that theyr mouthes are all out of taaste syth that from Chrystes dethe hytherto all holy men all good people all true chrysten nacyons haue sauored alwaye those meatys to be good and holsome whyche these fonde felowes affyrme now to be bytter peryllous meate and haue alwayes affyrmed for vnsauery meate and euyll suche as now these mad men affyrme to be well seasoned good haue alwayes hytherto reputed for shamefull and fylthy lechery the flesshly cowplyng to gether of freres and nonnes that these losels now do boldely put forth auowe for good and lawfull matrymonye If Tyndall graunte that I say trewe in this then shall he be fayne to graunte that the wordes whyche he allegeth agaynst vs spoken by the mouthe of our sauyoure be not spoken agayst vs that byleue as all Chrystes chyrche hath byleued euer hytherto but that they be spokeÌ„ agaynst hym selfe and his felowys that byleue the contrary And on the other syde yf Tyndall deny me thys and wyll saye that all good men and goddes electes haue alwaye byleued as he hys felowes do teache and that they haue alwaye taught and done the same let Tyndall then tell vs one good honest maÌ„ what speke we of honest man let hym tell vs of ony one so very a starke rybawlde in all this .xv. C. yere afore Luthers dayes and hys that euer taught that it was lawfull for a frere to wedde a nunne If Tyndall shewe you not thys as I wotte well he can not â—â— Tyndale taketh here saiÌ„t Poule at his pleasure For saiÌ„t Poâ—le speketh not there of bâ—rne agayne nor new created wyth yâ— spyryt but that senâ—uall meÌ„ as those that be carnalâ— coÌ„tenciouse be not mete for the perfit doctrine of spyrituall ieuelacioÌ„s and theâ— by that place Tyndales spirytualâ— sâ—rte be not spirytuall nor mete veâ—â—els to receyue gyue â—ut the doctâ—ine of yâ— spyrite for there be no people so carnall so â—â—tâ—cicâ—se as they than be ye very sure that sythe euery holy man before hys dayes hathe taught the contrary and hath had yt in detestacyoÌ„ he now defendeth yt for good agaynst all good men that hath bene euer synnys Crystes dayes to hys owne how holy a tale so euer he tell you besyde how so euer he paynt yt wyth scrypture wrythen and wrested owte of all good course ye may be sure ynoughe that hys doctryne ys for all that very starke noughte in dede and that he meanyth no good and that yf he beleue as he teacheth as I verely beleue he doth not hys fayth ys very false Tyndall ☞ And thys same is it that Paule saythe in the seconde chapter of the fyrste epystle to the Corynthians how that the naturall man that ys not borne agayne and created a new wyth the spyryte of god be he neuer so grete a phylosopher neuer so well seene in the lawe neuer so sore studyed in the scrypture as we haue ensamples in the pharysies yet he can not vnderstond the thynges of the spyryte of god but sayth he the spyrytuall iudgeth all thynges his spyryte sercheth the depe secretis of god so that what so euer god commaundeth hym to doo Saynte Poule in that place spekyth nâ—t of eny serche that spirytuall meÌ„ shuld make of the cause of godd is coÌ„mauÌ„dementis but Tyndall fayneth yâ— thing to finde by yâ— seâ—che of yâ— cause some dyscharge of the coÌ„maundmeÌ„t he neuer leueth serchyng tyll he come at the botom the pyth the quycke the lyfe the spyryte the marye and very cause why and iudgeth all thynge More ye consyder well that Tyndall in these wordes wolde ye shulde wene that these folke of whom saynt Poule speketh in that place be such as can not sauour the doctryne of Luther frere Huskyn and hym But then consyder agayn vppone whome hys wordes fall For ye dowte not nor hym selfe can not denye but that hys doctryne ys farre frome the taste of saynt Austeyne saynt HieroÌ„e saynt Ambrose saynt Cypryan saynt Gregory and all those olde holy doctours of Crystes chyrche vnto Luthers dayes and hys or els as I sayd let hym tell me whyche of all theym dyd not abhorre that a preste shulde wedde a nunne And therfore thus ye se that by Tyndalys holy tale there were none of all them were they neuer so gret philosophers neuer so well seen in the law neuer so sore studyed in scrypture that cowlde vnderstonde the thynges of the spyryte of god bycause they were but naturall men not borne agayne nor created a newe wyth the spyryte of god How knoweth Tyndale that none of all these that hathe bene aduersaryes to his doctrine that is to wytte of all good men that euer were in crystendome syth Cryste was borne vnto Tyndalys tyme was borne agayne or newe created wyth the spyryte of god Howe hym selfe vnderstandeth his hyghe spirytuall wordes I wote nere but I wote well that all those holy fathers were reputed for good crysten and I wene they were all baptized and borne agayne of water and the spyryte as our sauyour sayd vnto Nychodemus after that they lyued well and spyrytually and dyed well and spyrytually as apperyth by theyr bookes and hystoryes wryâ—en of theyr lyues and myracles shewed for them of god afâ—er theyr dethys And vnto suche symple groce carnall peopell as we be these thynges seme well to shewe that they were borne agayne of god new created wyth his spyrite and so by Tyndalys owne tale shold seme able to vnderstande the thynges of the spyryte of god But yet wyll Tyndale none of that For he lyketh not theyr iudgement but he sayth that the spyrytuall iudgeth all thynges And where as saynte Paule in the place alledged by Tyndale sayth that the holy goost the spyryte of god sercheth euen the depe thynges of god by cause that vnto that holy spyryte whych is god there is nothynge of god vnknowen Tyndale taketh that hygh power vnto his wurshâ—ppefull spirytuall sorte sayeÌ„g the spyrituall iudgeth all thâ—nges and his spyryte sercheth the depe secretys of god And with this not satisfyed he amplifyteh and enhaunceth theyr holy serche vppon heyth and sayth that the spyryte of theyr spirytuall sorte serche the depe secretys of god so far that what so euer god commaundeth them to do they neuer leue serchynge tyll they come at the botome the pyth the quycke the lyfe the spiryte the mary and very cause why and so iudge all thynge what an hepe of hyghe vehement wordes hath Tyndale here heped vp to gyther who wolde not wene that he were wyth some holy medytacyon caryed vp in Ennoke and Helyas chare But yet good crysten reder for all his holy tale remember agayne the frere and the nunne Luther and hys wyfe Tyndales owne mayster and maystres the chyeff hed author of his hygh spyrytuall fayth For Lutherye wote
Hierome founde some fautes in his workes he muste remember agayne that many a good man and among those saynte Pamphilus the blessed martyr founde in Origenes doctrine so mych erâ—dycyon deuocyon vertue bysyde that they veryly thought those errours none of his nor neuer were there any such faâ—tes founden in his wrytynge whyle hym self lyued nor no man offended with hym many places in his bokes playne that seme to saye the coÌ„trary And therfore many good men thought and yet thynge all be yt saynt Hierome thought otherwyse as he myght well inow whyle that poynte no thynge perteyneth to the fayth that chose heresyes were put in to hys bokes after his deth by some that were heretyques in dede and wolde for the great estymacyon that Origeneâ— was in thorough all the chyrch anaunce theyr owne heresyes forwarde vnder the name and standard of his famouse authoryte But graunted nowe that those faâ—tes were his whyche were imputed vnto hym yet is this none of theÌ„ But saynte 〈…〉 so 〈…〉 Tyndales scoldyng accepted and taken 〈◊〉 all 〈…〉 wyll I brynge in with hym some other that I haue named and yet other mo bysyde that shall as I sayd testyfye with me before this boke be done that god hath taught his chyrche many thynges wherof in the scrypture his worde is yet vnwrytem But now wyll I for the meane while touchyng this poynt wheruppoÌ„ the great wayghte of all the mater hangeth go nerer vnto Tyndale a nother waye It is ye wote well agreed bytwene vs or yf he wold be so madde to say naye ye wyll yet your selfe agre this in his stede that ones of olde tyme Cryste hym selfe and his apostles dyd teache and preache mâ—ny wordes of god vnwryten Now thus I say syth many thynges were tought fyrst vnwryten yf any of them be yet lefte vnwryten then saye I that Tyndale is at the leste wyâ—e temerariouse ouer bolde so certaynely to affyrme that any sacrament that the chyrch vseth and so longe hath vsed or ceremony eyther is idolatrye for as mych as if we lakked sure profe vppon our syde whyche in dede we lakke not by reason of goddes spyryte by Crystes owne promyse euer abydynge wyth his chyrch and teachyng it all trewth but yf we lakke I say that profe for our parte yet were he to presumptuousely bowe so precysely to affyrme the contrary syth he can not say naye but that they myght be some of those that were sometyme toâ—ghte vnwryten and yet remayne obserued vnwryten as the other that now be wryten were tought kept wythout wrytynge before To this wyll Tyndall answere that syâ—â—â—â— that tyme all goddes wordes promyses sacramentes that he wold haue kepte and byleued in crysâ—â—ndome he hath caused to be wryten by his euangelistes and apostles and lefte nâ—ne vnwryten to 〈…〉 that his chyrch shall not stande in any dâ—wte nor fall into any errour of any necessary poynt for lakke of wrytynge but moâ—e â—knowâ— by that he hath caused all to be wryten that all be false and fayned and â—â—ennys madde inâ—encyons that they byleue and obserue vnwryteÌ„ For wâ—y sholde he â—â—â—se some to be wryten and suffer some lefte vnwryten to make men sure of some and to leue some in 〈◊〉 〈…〉 cause for he seeth why well inough and therfore I wyll gyue no rekenynge why god hath caused some to be wryten and some to be lefte vnwryten But thys wyll I be bolde to saye that he was not of any necessyte compelled to wryte any one sacrameÌ„t or ceremony or weyghty poynt of byleue for any fere leste it sholde fall awaye and that he coude not wyth hys owne spyryte kepe it in mennys hertes and vsage wythout wrytynge as well as he kept in the good generacyons the knowledge of his promyses and his lawes longe and many ages before the lawe was wryten and yet wrote them not all therin neyther but the people had a fayth of Cryste amonge them more large then was wryten in theyr lawe whyche went from hande to hande I thynke from Adams dayes to whom it is lykely that god made after his fall some larger promyse and reuelacyon of hys redempcyoÌ„ agayne than we fynde made vnto hym wryten in any place of scrypture But we shall not nede mych profe for thys mater for that god was able to kepe all hys sacramentes and artycles of the fayth wythout wrytynge Tyndale I wene wyll not deny me Now to say that yf he sholde haue lefte some vnwryten it wolde haue made dowtes and debates and be occasyons of errours and heresyes and the writyng doth put all thynges oute of dowte and therfore god hath lefte none vnwryten we se that thys maketh neyther more sure nor lesse For as well dyd men byleue before the wrytyng those thynges that are now wryten as euer they dyd synnys and we beleue now the promyses as well that are vnwryten as any that are wryten And the wrytynge taketh not away all the dowtes but as many ryse thereuppon and many mo then vppon those thynges that we byleue vnwryten For fyrste the credence to be gyuen to the hole boke in whyche they be wryten hangeth all vppon the same fayth vppon whyche dependen the thynges that are vnwryten For as I byleue the tone so byleue I the tother And as one maye by hys owne frowardnes lakke the grace to byleue the thynges vnwryten so maye a nother by his owne malyce lakke the grace to byleue any parte of the hole boke of holy scrypture that is wryteÌ„ and take it all for fantasyes And in good sayth I am aferd yâ— so do they whych saye they byleue nothynge els but it For as for parte of the boke they brynge in queâ—â—yâ—Ì„ 〈◊〉 boke of the Machabees by cause it maketh questyon as agaynst theyr purpose concernyng purgatory And parte they let not mych to deny as Luther doeth the epystle of saynte Iamys bycause it speketh playnely agaynst hys idle workelesse fayth Now in that partes whyche they graunte for scrypture yet taketh it not awaye all the dowtes But vnto such folke as Tyndale is and Luther that be so contencyouse it mynystreth rather mych mater of dowte and of debate that mych more then do the thynges that are obserued wythout wrytynge For fyrst they refuse to obserue them bycause they saye they fynde them not there wryten so ryseth that questyon fyrst vppon the wrytynge Then yf it be founden there then dyspute they whyther it be fully founden there as whyther we fynde there bothe the token and the thynge betokened For the sacrament take they but for a bare sygne and the thynge that is sygnyfyed they call no thynge but Crystes onely promyse And here make they vppon the wrytynge many greate batayles to bete downe allmoste all the sacramentes sauyng scant one and an halfe Then vppon the letter rayse they many greate errours and saye the scripture is playne vppon theyr syde And thys say not onely Luther Tyndale and
Swynglius with frere Huskyn and hys felowes agaynst the interpretacyon of all holy doctours and sayntes and the comen fayth of all trewe crysten people .xv. hundred yere before them but eche of them selfe also agaynst other amonge them selfe saye and swere that the scrypture is playne for theyr parte So that as for necessyte of wrytynge all or any parte coÌ„cernynge the sacramentes ceremonyes or artycles of the fayth god was not dreuen thereto nor by the wrytynge be taken awaye the dowtes But as I wote it well that god had good and greate causes why he caused some thynges to be wryten so had he causes as good why he lefte some vnwryten But neyther can Tyndale tell why he sholde wryte all nor I gyue the rekenynge why he lefte some vnwryten To thys wyll Tyndale happely say for ellys can not I se what he can say that god hath causyd all his wordes spoken to his chyrche to be wryten in holy scrypture and hath in the same scrypture gyuen vs playne warnynge that he so hath done and thereby hath he delyuered vs from dyuerse dowtes though not from all For all be it the dyuerse dowteâ— yet ryse vppon the writtynge we by his expresse warnyng in wrytynge shewynge that all is wryten be put oute of all dowte that we shall byleue nothynge as his worde wherof there is no wrytynge Surely yf Tyndale tell me this tale as in dede he doth for both Luther and he and frere Huskyn and Swynglius and all the rable of that rascayle neuer ceace to saye thys and they fynde folys that byleue them better vppon they re bare wordes then they wolde more honeste meÌ„ vppon theyr obligacyoÌ„s but now as I say yf Tyndale tell me this tale I shall by his leue be bolde to denye yt hym and pray hym onys to proue yt yf he can fynde how For this I wote well they haue amonge them made great boste a great whyle alwaye promysed that they wyll byeld vppe that towre and make yt very strong and sure and surely so haue they great nede to do for therein lyeth all the store of all theyr gunne powder brymstone pytch wyld fyre that they shote out at the blessed sacramentes of our sauyour Cryste And as for hytherto brought they neuer yet so mych good stuffe as wolde make a tyle pynne to fence theyr fortresse wythall And what so euer they bryng herafter they shall make pore paper walles But to th entent that they shall not bygyle you lette vs wyth one worde or twoo put them in remembraunce what thynges they be that they muste nedes proue and that by playne scripture to for other profe them selfe wyll none admytte Tyndale muste proue me fyrst therfore by playne euydent scrypture that all the wordes necessarye to remayne be knowen whych our sauyour hym selfe and his apostles tought ones withoute wrytynge all those he hath caused to be by them and his euangelistes wryten preserued and kepte in playne and euident scripture when Tyndale hath proued this for whych I dare geue hym respyte tyll domes daye then muste he yet by playne and euydent scrypture profe me farther lo for the profe therof though the poyntes be but easy let hym take yet his tyme fyftene dayes after wythin whyche he muste I saye by playne and euydent scripâ—â—â—â— pâ—ofe me farther yet of these two thynges one that is to wyâ—â—â—ther that euery necessary worde whych god hath spoken by hymselfe and his holy spyryte vnto his chyrche synnys the dâ—th of his .iiii. euangelystes and his .xii. apostles he hathe caused to be also secretly sette in and wryten to these bokes whych Tyndale agreeth for holy scrypture or ellys muste he profe me by playne and euydent scripture that not wythstandynge his promyse made vnto his chyrch in his apostles dayes that he wolde wyth his holy spyryte speke to his chyrch hym self and dwell therwyth and teache yt all trewth from tyme to tyme all dayes euen to the day of dome yet as sone as he saw his apostles dede no maÌ„ that herde hym left to bere vs wytnesse what he sayde he bygan to go from his worde agayne sware that he wold eyther no lenger dwell here wyth his chyrch or yf he cam yt shold be but a geste wyse and yet wold he play muÌ„me to and ney ther by hym selfe nor his holy spyryte vouchsaufe to speke any one worde vnto them that were at the leste wyse aught worthy the wrytynge but some wanton tryfle Remember nowe good reader that these be the thynges whyche Tyndale hathe to proue And when he proueth these few thynges then beleue hym hardely and so wyll I do to But surely who so byleue hym wyth any lesse vnder standeth nothynge what the mater meaneth Now yet ones agayne lette vs consyder Tyndales olde tyme in whych he sayth the trew pure preachyng was vsed that is now quyte gone I wolde aske hym when ended that olde tyme of his and when beganne his new He saythe yt hath bene thus as yt is more then this .viii. hundred yeres and me thynketh .viii. hundred is a very longe nowe But yet consyder good reader yf the trew preachynge was lefte and gone .viii. yere a go and more then can he not say nay but that the trew fayth went quyte away therwith without whych can be no chyrch of Cryste neyther catholyque nor of electes And thus doth Tyndale tell vs that this .viii. yere at the laste our lorde hath broke his promyse by whyche he promysed to be with his chyrch all days to the worldes ende This man maketh hygh boste of Crystes promyses wold with them destroye all vertue safe fayth And now ye se that playnely he denyeth Crystes promyse to and wyll I wene at laste denye euen Cryste and all For as ye se at your eye he draweth very faste towarde yt Now tyll Tyndale therfore haue proued vs these few poyntes that are for theyr falsehed impossyble to be proued the chyrche shall not nede for his fonde raylynge any thyng to fere to vse the deuoute sacrameÌ„tes ceremonyes taught and delyuered theÌ„ by god and his holy spyryte For sâ—yghte wherof the deuyll and his damned spyrytes crye vppon to haue them lefte of and bere vs in hand that they be frutelesse For Tyndale sayth that they neyther tame the flesshe nor do good to thy neyghbour nor be honour to god But now doth all good crysteÌ„ people very well perceyue by Crystes owne promyse in the very wryten gospell that the chyrche of Cryste ys taught by hys holy spyryte that these sacramentes and ceremonyes do please god And they perceyue and se also that the holy sayntes whyche haue vsed them before our dayes be now longe a go rewarded in heuyn wyth god And they perceyue also that in the vse therof theyr myndes rysen and be lyfte vppe a lofte in deuocyon to god and bâ— these thynges and such lyke they perceyue well that Tyndale doeth but bylye
by a greate deale as the messenger doth in my dyalog whyche I haue yet suffered to stande styll in my dyaloge that rather yet by the counsayle of other men then of my selfe For all be yt that yt be lawfull to any man to mysselyke the mysseuse of euery good thynge and that in my dyaloge there not onely those euyll thynges rehersed but answered also and soyled and the goodnes of the thyng self well vsed is playnely confyrmed and proued yet hath Tyndale by erronyouse bokes in settynge forth Luthers pestylent heresyes so enuenemed the hartes of lewdly disposed persones yâ— men can not almost now speke of such thynges in so mych as a play but that such euyll herers wax a grete dele the worse And therfore in these dayes in which Tyndale hath god amende hym wyth thenfeccion of his coÌ„tagyouse heresyes so sore poysened malycyouse and newfangle folke that the kynges hyghnes and not wythout the couÌ„sayle and aduyce not of his nobles onely wyth his other counsaylours attendynge vppon his gracys person but also of the ryght vertuouse and specyall well lerned men of eyther vnyuersyte other partyes of the realme specyally called thereto hathe after dylygent and longe consyderacyon hadde therein ben fayne for the whyle to prohybyte the scrypture of god to be sufferd in englyshe tonge amonge the peoples handes leste euyll folke by false drawyng of euery good thynge they rede in to the colour and mayntenauÌ„s of theyr owne fonde fantasyes and turnynge all hony in to posyn myght both dedly do hurte vnto theym selfe and sprede also that infeccyone farther a brode I saye therfore in these dayes in whyche men by theyr owne defaute mysseconstre and take harme of the very scrypture of god vntyll menne better amende yf any man wolde now translate Moria in to Englyshe or some workes eyther that I haue my selfe wryten ere this â—ll â—e yt there be none harme therin folke yet beynge as they be geuen to take harme of that that is good I wolde not onâ—â—y my derlynges bokes but myne owne also helpe to burne thâ—â— both wyth myne owne handes rather then folkesh 〈◊〉 though thorow theyr own faute take any harme of them seynge that â—seâ—heâ— lykely in these dayes so to do But now after this Tyndale handeleth me full vncourtesly for he taketh awaye all my thanke and rewarde that I sholde haue had of the spyrytualtye For he sheweth them that I wrote not my boke for any affeccyon that I bere to them no more then Iudas bytrayed Cryst for any fauour that he bare to the hygh prestes scrybes and pharaseys but that I dyd the tone as he dyd the tother for the lucre that shold come therof after whych he sayth that I so sore hungre that the good man as my frend prayeth for me that I eat not to faste for chokynge Now yf the spyritualtye had ben aboute to haue gathered a dysme amonge them and geue yt me Tyndale here had loste yt me euery peny But god forgeue the good man and I do For wheÌ„ he speketh of my lucre in good fayth he maketh me laugh and so I wene he maketh many mo to that knowe well god be thanked that I haue not so mych lucre therby that I stande in so grete parell of chokynge wyth lucre as Tyndale standeth in daunger of chokynge god saue the man wyth the bones of buttred bere Now where Tyndale sayth I haue fayntely defended the thynges wherof I wryte the thynges be stronge inough and lytle nede me to defend them and also my purpose was not so mych to do that that neded not that is to wyt to defende them as to proue and make the people perceyue that Tyndale went aboute to brynge in heresyes amonge them And that nedeth now as lytle for Tyndale hath proued yt hym selfe And so lytle defence suffyseth for any reason that Tyndale layeth agaynste yt And fynally yf I were faynte therin as Tyndale sayth yet is a faynt fayth better then a stronge heresye But Tyndale yet for all this as a good godly father of his haboundaunte cheryte sayth that he charytably dothe exhorte me in Cryste by the examples of Iudas and Balaam to take hede and ferther he counsayleth me and my felowes full holyly to awake by tymes ere euer our synnes be rype leste the voyce of oure wykkednesse ascende vp and awake god out of his slepe to loke vppoÌ„ vs and to bowe hys earys vnto our cursed blasphemyes agaynst the open trewth and to sende hys herueste men and mowars of vengeaunce to repe it excepte we repent and resyste not the spyryte of god whyche openeth lyght vnto the worlde These wordes when I redde them semed me so pytthy so persaunt set and cowched in suche an hyghe spyrytuall fasshyon that they made me mych to meruayle what Tyndale had spyed in me and caused me to serche my selfe to se whyther I had vsed any suche hygh blasphemyes that the wykkednes therof were lykely to ascende vp in to heuyn awake god almyghty out of hys slepe But when I hadde ouer serched all my boke ransaked vp the very botom of my brest though I fouÌ„de in the tone som prety peccaduliuÌ„s such as I wyll not now confesse to father Tyndale bycause he sayth confessours kepe no counsayle yet coude I fynde in good fayth neyther in my brest nor in my boke I thaÌ„ke god any suche hygh blasphemyes as Tyndale so hyghly cryeth out vppon excepte he call it an hygh blasphemye to call heresyes heresyes whyche I take as helpe me god in my pore conscyence for none hygher blasphemy then to call a gose a gose Nor I. fynde no trewth that I neyther blaspheme or onys speke agaynste excepte Tyndale mene by thys open trewth all the false open heresyes that hym selfe techeth agaynste Crystes holy sacramentes Agaynst whyche kynde of false trewth I no more fere to speke then agaynst the deuyll hym selfe that fyrste founde it out Nor I can not fynde wherein I resyste the spyryte of god in openynge hys lyght vnto the worlde excepte that Tyndale take for the spyryte of god the spyryte of the deuyll of hell and for openynge of lyght vnto the worlde he take the lyghtesome lanterne of good ensample by whych the worlde maye se for a shewe of holy matrymony frere Luther and Cate calate hys nonne lye luskynge togyther in lâ—chery Now to resyste thys deuelysshe spyryte my pore spyryte for all Tyndales hygh ferefull charge is so lytell afrayed that I call hartely to the spyryte of god to quenche the fowle fyrebronde of that helly lyght that so thorowly that the worlde se neuer any suche example more And now when that I had thus thorowly serched well my breste and my boke and saw my conscyence clere farre out of any suche cause of ieoperdy then Tyndals terryble exorcysme made me not mych to trymble syth heretykes haue of olde be wont alwaye to vse suche wordes But my mind more gaue me
sayeth yt appereth that there was no cause to burne his translacyon wherein such chaunges founden as ye se and beynge chauÌ„ged for such causes as hym selfe coÌ„fesseth that is to wyt for a fouÌ„dacyone of such pestylent heresyes as hym selfe affermeth wryteth in his abomynable bokes he myghte mych better yf he cut a mannys throte in the open strete say there were no cause to hange hym but bydde men seke vppe hys knyfe se yt hym safe This myght he in good fayth myche better saye then then he maye now say that there is no cause to burne his translacyon wyth yâ— falsed wherof and his false heresyes brought in there wythall he hath kylled and destroyed dyuerse menne and maye hereafter many some in body some 〈◊〉 soule and some in â—oth twayne And 〈◊〉 where as in the ende he loketh so mych to me that he forgeteth hym selfe and makyng me a nother holy sermone of my couetousenesse my great aduauntage in seruyng in falsed myne obstynate malyce agaynst the trewth he forgeteth in the meane whyle that his owne malyce is agaynst the trewth in such manner obstynate that he doth as the deuell dothe endure payne for the mayntenaunce of hys false deuelyshe heresyes agaynste the treuth and puttynge me in mynde agayne of the false prophete Balaam and his euyll ende and that all suche resysters of the trewth come at laste vnto an euyll deth he forgeteth in the meane whyle the double deth that his felowes heretyques comenly come vnto fyrst by fyre in erth and after by fyre in hell saue they that at the tone renounce his deuelysh heresyes so escape the tother Tyndale therfore where yt lyketh hym to lyken me to Balaam Pharao and to Iudas to syth the pytthe of all hys processe standeth in this one poynte that his heresyes be the trew fayth and that the catholyque fayth is false that the holy dayes nor the fastyng dayes no man nede to kepe that the dyuyne seruyces in the chyrche is all but superstycyon that the chyrche the ale howse is all one sauynge for such holy preachyng that men haue no fre wyll of theyr owne to do nother good nor yll that to reuerence Crystes crosse or any saynts ymage is idolatry that to do any good worke faste geue almysse or other with entent the rather to gete heuen or to be the better rewarded there is dedely synne afore god worse then idolatrye to thynke that the masse may do menne any good mo then the preste hym selfe were a false belyefe a false fayth also to pray for any soule great synne to shryue vs or to do penaunce for synne freres may well wedde nonnes and muste nedes haue wyues and the sacramentes of Cryste muste serue for Tyndales iestynge stoke these be the trewthes that Tyndole preacheth And bycause I call these trewthes heresyes therfore Tyndale calleth me Balaam Iudas and Pharao and â—hreteneth me sore wyth the vengeaunce of god and wyth an euyll deth what deth eche man shall dye that hangeth in goddes haÌ„des and martyrs haue dyed for god and heretykes haue dyeâ— for the deuyll But syth I know yt very well and so doth Tyndale to that the holy sayntes dede byfore these dayes synnys Cristes tyme tyll our owne byleued as I do that Tyndales trewthes beâ— starke deuelyâ—he heresyes yf god gyue me the grace to suffer for sayeng the same I shall neuer in my ryght wyt wysh to dye better And therfore syth all the mater staÌ„deth in this poynte alone that yf his heresyes be the trew fayth then I stande in parell and yf they be a false fayth I maye be safe inought lette hym leue his sermon hardely for the whyle and fyrste go proue his lyes trewe and then come agayne and preache and frere Luther also his lemman wyth hym to and then may the geese prouyde the foxe a pulpette Here endeth the seconde boke in whyche is confuted Tyndales defence of his false translacyon of the new testamente ¶ The thyrde boke Here after foloweth the thyrde boke in whyche be treated two chapyters of Tyndales boke that is to wyt whyther the chyrche were before the gospell or the gospell before the chyrch whyther the apostles lefte ought vnwryten that is of necessyte to be byleued whether the chyrche were before the gospell or the gospell before the chyrche TIndale hath all thys whyle wyth his defence of chaungynge chyrche and other thynges vsed in the chyrch malycyously by hym chaunged in his translacyoÌ„ kept vs as it were styll stryuynge wyth hym in the chyrche porche But now haue I wonne the porche vppon hym and we be comen to ioyne togyther wythin the chyrche For now takynge hys translacyon for damnable as it is we be comen to trye bytwene vs the falsed of hys pestylent heresyes concernynge the chyrch and the worde of god by the spyryt of god taughte vnto hys chyrche wyth which heresyes he corrupteth the worde of god and wyth poysen infecteth hys chyrche as I haue before manyfestely declared bothe concernynge Crystes holy sacramentes and dyuerse other artycles of Crystes fayth But for as mych as by the dyscourse of my dyaloge I proued clerely that nothyng can be sure certayne amonge crysten men not so mych as the holy scrypture it selfe but yf we byleue the chyrche and I proued also that the chyrch of Cryste can not fall in dampnable errour but hath ben is eueâ— shall be taught by the spyryte of god euery necessary â—râ—uâ—h to the bylefe wherof god wyll haue them bounden and that thys chyrche is and euer hath ben taughte by the worde of god partely wryten and partely vnwryten and that those two wordes are bothe of one authoryte and fynally dyd I proue that the very chyrche of Cryste here in erthe whyche hath the ryght fayth and whyche we be bounden to byleue and obaye is thys vnyuerâ—all knowen people of all crysten nacyons that be neyther put out nor openly departed out by theyr wylfull scysmes and playnly professed heresyes and that Luthers chyrche all the chyrches sprong out thereof wyth all the prophetes and patryarches of the same as Suinglius Butzer Balthasar Otho frere Huyskyn frere Lambert and Tyndale be the synagoge of Sathan and seruauntes of the deuyll nowe cometh me Tyndale and perceyuynge hym selfe sore bounden to the stake wyth the strength of thys chayne begynneth to wrythe and wrestle and fareth fowle wyth hym selfe to loke yf he coude breke any lynke therof where about for as mych as he seeth that all the rable of heretykes haue longe labored of olde and yet theyr bokes vanesshed awaye to the deuyll with them selfe and that the deuell hath of theyr dry asshes reysed vp an hundred sortes of new sectes of heretykes mych more blasphemouse then euer were the olde he hath ouerloked studyously all theyr bokes and wyth all the poysen that the deuyll hath put in them hath stuffed hys mouth full to spet it out agayne agaynste
wythout synne But now they haue seen and yet haue hated both me and my father Thus haue I clerely shewed you that where Tyndale wolde haue yt seme that goddes worde alone alwaye clenseth mennys soules from false fayth he teacheth in that a false fayth for the myracles many tymys helpe to the clensynge of mennys soules And lette Tyndale stykke well to thys poynt for I entende shortely to shew by this that the miracles wrought in Crystes chyrche clerely reproue all the false fayth that he his mayster all theyr whole hondred sectes that are theyr ofsprynges preachen But fyrst where Tyndale sayth that goddes worde ys trew layth therfore the .xvii. of saynt IonÌ„ no man sayth nay to yâ— And where he sayth forther yâ— goddê trewth dependeth not of maÌ„nys word we wyll graute hym this mych more to then he loketh for For I say ferther that the trouth of god dependeth not vppon goddes owne worde neyther but is absolutely trew in yt self without any dependauÌ„ce vppon hys word at all And as yt is trew that Tyndale sayth that goddes trewth is not trew bycause man so sayth so is this trew also that goddes trewth is not trew bycause god so sayth But on the totheâ— syde lykewyse as this argument or coÌ„secucyon is trew god sayth that who so byleue not his chyrch is to be takeÌ„ as a paynem ergo that thyng is trew so is thys consecucyon trew Crystes chyrch â—ayth the who so breke hys vow of chastyte synnetâ— dedely who so holdeth yt for lefull holdeth an heresye eâ—go these two thyâ—ges be trew and yet is neyther the â—â—yeâ—â— of the chyrche the cause of the trewth of these two nor the sayeng of Criste the cause of the trewth of the tother But lykewyse as yâ— I 〈◊〉 syt yt must nedes be that he sytteth whyle I se hym syt bâ—â—â—use I could not se hym sytte but yf he â—atte in dede yet he sytteth not bycause I se hym sythe for 〈◊〉 sholde though I saw hym not 〈…〉 vppon the trouth of hys dede For though the worde of god can not be but trew syth yf the thynge were not trew god yâ— is the trewth wolde not saye yt yet is the thynge trew that god speketh not bycause it is trewly spokeÌ„ but bycause it is trewly done For treuth was the thynge in yt selfe treuth yt sholde haue bene all had yt neuer be spoken And thys I saye is trewe touchynge the wordes and proposycyons by whiche god any thynge telleth to his creatures by wrytyng or wythout leste Tyndale make vs here some sophystycacyon as though I spake of the great worde of god wherby all thynge is made the sonne of god hym self one egalâ— god wyth hys father and theyr holy spiryte If Tyndale aske vs now wherof serueth then the treuth of goddes wordes I saye that yt serueth to make knowen or byleued amonge vs the treuth of goddes dede For when god sayth who so byleueth and is baptyzed and lyueth well after or doth penaunce for his synne shall for hys fayth good workes be hyghly rewarded in heuen though thys shall not be trew bycause god sayth yt but bycause he wyll dot yt nor he dothe yt not bycause he wyll saye yt but he sayth yt bycause he wyll do it yet hath he ordeyned that his worde shall be the way by whiche that trouth shal be shewed vs and that myracles ioyned vnto hys worde sholde make vs perceyue that yt is his worde whereby wyth reason we muste nedeâ— be bounden to byleue yt and it beyng byleued we â—e by reason â—â—unden to obey yt And this yâ— therfore the waye that god hath taken from the begyâ—nynge that is to wyt he hath from the begynnyng ioyned hys word with woÌ„derfull workes to make his word perceyued for hys awne Thus 〈◊〉 he in euâ—ry age before the comyng of Cryste Thus dyd he in Cryste hym selfe whose wordes he proued by hys wonderfull workes as hym selfe sayth in the .xv. of saint IohnÌ„ Thus dyd â—e also by his blessed apostles whose doctâ—â—ne he 〈◊〉 by 〈…〉 And thus hath he done 〈…〉 For likewyse as when he sent his owne sonne 〈…〉 hym and hys doctryne decla 〈…〉 selfe suche as he was â— god made hym do myra 〈◊〉 〈…〉 then euer any dyd amonge 〈◊〉 〈…〉 the sent his apostles 〈…〉 that Cryste dyd the countrees to whome they were sent wolde haue went that they had lyed and fayned suche fables them selfe therfore Cryste caused them to do myracles in his name before the people as god caused Moyses to do before Pharao And when the world was turned to hym and that apostles were not sent about then was the chyrch of euery tyme the apostle to suche as were borâ—e and came in to yâ— worlde in theyr tyme of whome suche as lyued and remayned after theyr tyme were in theyr stede lefte for the apostle that sholde teche preche to those other that sholde be borne in to the worlde in theyr tyme and so forth from age to age And for bycause that they whyche from tyme to tyme come in to thys worlde new borne fyrste of theyr flesshely father and mother and after of god and theyr mother holy chyrche by the water and the spyryte sholde be sure that theyr sayde mother the chyrche is Crystes apostle and techeth them the trewe doctryne neyther deceyueth them wyth false scrypture as doth the congregacyon of turkes nor with false tradycyons as do the synagoges of iewes nor wyth false exposycions as do the false chyrches of heretykes he causeth hys chyrche to do myracles styll in euery age and to be dyscerned and knowen by the plentuouse workyng of goddys wonders by hym selfe wrought therin so many and so grete that no man can be ignoraunt theâ—â—f but he that wyll neyther se nor here or is so desperate and so sore set in an obstynate malyce that he wyll to the deuyll wyllyngly by doyng now as the iewes dyd of olde and as Tyndale now doth of new ascrybynge the myracles wrought by the goodnes of god to be done in goddes chyrch by the power of the deuyll And yet when Tyndale is so 〈◊〉 to tell vs thus he toâ—cheth nothyng thys poynte â—hyche I layed agaynst hym in my dyaloge that yf hys lyâ— were 〈◊〉 in then sholdâ—â— folow that of so maâ—â— false chyrcheâ—â—f false heretikes 〈◊〉 shold some suche myracles be wrought as well as 〈◊〉 syth yf that oure chyrche were a false chyrche it 〈…〉 one of the many And yf he wyll saye that 〈…〉 the greatest and the falseste and therfore â—alse 〈◊〉 therin 〈…〉 they stretche from heuyn to hell they haue not yet amonge 〈◊〉 all 〈◊〉 myracle done greate nor small neyther by god nor deuyll And thys I shew you for the order of the thynge that ye maye perceyiâ—e that the trewth of god is â—ustyfyed in it selfe and dependeth not vppon hys worde nor hys worde is not the cause of hys trewth but by
debatable termes of generall pyth and substaunce and of drawynge out and deducynges and dependynge vppon scrypture vppon euery whyche worde he maye make an argument when it cometh to the poynte But yet yf he wolde honestly stande to hys taclynge in thys poynt and gyue vs the lyke lybertye that hym selfe wyll take and neyther vse false deduccyons of hys owne nor refuâ—e our deduccyons yf we deduce them well we wolde neuer fynde faute in thys poynte But now let vs deduce a thyng neuer so strayght it can not be alowed Let hym selfe drawe it neuer so farre a wry yet wyll he swere that it is ryght inough I shall gyue you for the more clerenesse one ensample of eyther syde Matthei 2â— we saye that syth our sauyour hath hym selfe promysed in the gospell that hym selfe and hys holy spyryte shall be wyth his chyrche all dayes vnto the ende of the worlde yt foloweth say we therof that hys chyrch shall neuer fayle as longe as â—he worlde lasteth IohnÌ„ 16 And bycause our sauyour sayth in lykeâ—â—â—e that hys holy spyryte euer abydynge wyth hys chyrche shall teche his chyrch all thynges and lede them into euery trouth and put them in remembraâ—â—â—e of all that he hym selfe had or wolde say vnto them we deduce theruppon that he wyll not suffer hys chyrche fall in to the erronyouse bylefe of any dampnable vntrouth but lede them into the tâ—outh that is the coÌ„trary of that vntrouth And syth 〈…〉 the holy gâ—â—â—â— shall wryte vnto you all thynges nor shall wryte you all trouth but shall lede you into all trouth we deduce theruppon that the bylefe where into the spiryte of god ledeth vs and planteth it in our harte is as good and as sure to saluacyon of oure soules wythout any wrytynge at all as yf it were wryten in parchement wyth golden letters and Crystes owne hande Here haue I shewed you a sample of oure deduccyons whyche I truste euery man may se that we draw it not farre of but that the scrypture well and clerely maynteneth oure deducynge therof And the sample also that I shew you serueth mych for our mater agaynst Tyndale that contendeth and laboreth to proue that we be bounde to byleue nothyng but goddys promyses and here he seeth that god promysed not to put all thynge in wrytynge but that the holy gooste sholde teche vs by ledynge vs into euery trouth Now shall I shewe you a sample of Tyndales deduccyon vppon scrypture whyche as god wolde he bryngeth forth hym selfe in thys same present chapyter to the entent that ye sholde not lakke a shew wherby ye shall se how playnely he proueth hys holy doctryne by the holy scrypture The scrypture sayeth loue thy neyghbour as thy selfe Now vppon this texte deduceth Tyndale that women may crysten and consecrate the body of Cryste and saye masse to How other men wyll alowe thys deduccyon I can not tell But lest they that lyke it not myghte happe to wene that he sayth it not I shall reherse you hys owne very wordes Tyndale They wyll happely demaunde where yt is wryten that womeÌ„ sholde baptyse Veryly in this commaundement loue thy neyghbour as thyselfe yt is wryten that they may and ought to mynistre not onely baptisme but all other sacramentes also in tyme of nede yf they be so necessarye as they preache them More Lo syr here ye se that yf the masse be so necessary as the chyrche techeth whyche sayth and hath ordeyned that it is necessary to be sayd vnto the parysshe at the leâ—â—e wyse euery sondaye yf the preste be not at home then some good wyfe maye for a nede steppe to the awter and saye masse in hys stede bycause the scrypture sayth lâ—ue thy neyghbour as thy selfe what is there that these folke maye not proue by scâ—â—pture yf they may deduce it thus and haue theyr deduccyâ—â— alowed Or a made as good deduccyon as thys and yâ—â—â—â—â— no thanke For he thoughte that bycause of the commaundement 1. Parasip 13. thou shalt honour thy lorde god he myghte was bounden to set hys hande vnto stayeng and kepynge vp of the arche of the testament that was aboute to fall But god taughte other men by that mannys sodayne deth that he was to malapert to medle wyth that kynde of goddys honour that was not mete for hym And Tindale bycause a woman muste loue her neyghboure as her selfe wyll haue her not touche the arche but the blessed bodye of god and bodely coÌ„secrate yt her self which neyther the blessed mother of Crist nor the hyghest angell in heuen durste euer psume to thynke bycause god had not appoynted them to that offyce Suche deduccyons vppon scrypture made they of lykelyhed that toke vppon them in the old testameÌ„t more then theyr parte cam to as Chore and Abyron and the kynge Ozias Numeri 16. 2. Parasip 2â— that wolde nedes playe the preste and encence god hym selfe for whyche honorable seruyceâ— our lorde sent hym shame and sorow Now yf Tyndale aske me why a woman maye crysten not coÌ„secrate syth both be sacrameÌ„tes I can answere hym the comen answere that though both be necessarye yet both be not lyke great nor lyke necessarye For both is there greater reuerence to be had to the sacrameÌ„t of Cristes body then to the sacrament of baptysme and yet is baptysme of more necessyte then the tother syth that â—or faute of baptysme saluacyon fayleth and not forfaute of housell But as for my parte I wold geue hym none answer to that question other then the ordynaunce of goddes spyryte whyche I se that god hath taught his chyrche and ellys wolde he not suffer them to byleue that yt were well done wherof no man is boundeÌ„ to geue a precyse cause But yt were ouer mych boldenes to thynke that we coulde precysely tell that cause of euery thynge that yt pleaseth god to deuyse though Tyndale and his spirituall sort will not obaâ— goddes byddyng tyll them self as he sayth haue enserched founden the very full cause why It is to me for all Tyndales deduccyon a greater queâ—â—yon yet sauyng for the custume of Cristes catholyke chyrch why a woman may crysten then why she may not coÌ„secrate For surely syth god sent out onely men to baptyse I wolde set no woman thereto for any nede no more then to be a confessour and â—â—â—oyle men of theyr synnys for nedâ— sauynge that I se yeâ—one euer 〈…〉 where in Cristes hoâ—e chyrche and the consent of holy sayntes approuynge and allowyng the same And in consecratynge neuer woman dyd yt nor good man byleued that any woman myghte do yt whyche bylyef yf yt were false I doute not but the spiryte of god techynge his chyrche wolde ere this haue led his chyrche into the contrarye trewth accordynge to Crystes promyse But now as I say ye se by Tyndales ensample for what entent and purpose he putteth in his deducynge drawyng of articles of the fayth
that Enoch or Hely is bodye soule in paradyse syth he maye do the tone that doth the tother And he sayth the tone that sayth the tother though he saye them not bothe in one maner but the tone by wrytynge the tother by mouth For the inwarde inspiracyon of hys spyryte is his mouth vnto his resonable creatures How be yt he sayth and speketh in dede the tone thynge and the tother bothe of one fashyon For yf he speke he but inspyreth his worde in to some creature that speketh yt out And as he speketh he wryteth And therfore who so better byleueth the word of god wryten theÌ„ the worde of god vnwryteÌ„ that is to wyt the scripture then the inspyracyon he byleueth better the creature that wrote it then god hym self that inspyred yt If Tyndale wyll auoyde thys and say nay but I byleue better these men that wrote the tone of Enoch and Hely then I beleue thâ—se men that tell me the tother of our lady then muste Tyndale tell vs why he better byleueth those then these wherin what hath he to saye but that those that wrote it in the scrypture were inspyred of god and so he byleueth it as the worde not of men but of god Then answere we agayne that they that tell me the tother of our lady were inspyred of god and therfore it helpeth hym to byleue it as the worde not of menne but of god If he aske how shall he know that god inspyred the men that tell hym the tale of our lady we must aske hym agayne how knoweth he that god inspyred them that wrote the tale of Enoch or Hely If he say that he knoweth it bycause it is holy scrypture we then shall aske hym ferther how he knoweth that it is holy scrypture And then is he dreuen to the poynt that when he hath all doâ—â— he muste be fayne to fle to the chyrche and say that he knowâ—â—h â—â— by the chyrche And when he shall shewe you by whychâ— chyrche he knoweth it he muste nedys shew you some chyrchâ— whyche hym self â— may knowe for ellys how sholde any suche chyrche tell it hym as hym selfe knoweth not And when he sheweth you any knowen chyrche he is dowble confounded For bothe he destroyeth hys heresye that no chyrche sholde be byleued but electes and also shall be dreuen to confesse that he knoweth the scrypture by our chyrche that is to wyt Crystes catholyke chyrche whych he refuseth And then shall we ferther tell hym for hys thyrde confusyon that by the same selfe chyrche doeth he knowe that god hath inspyred that other artycle of our lady And yet for his fourth confusyon we shall tell hym ferther that the selfe same scrypture whyche hym selfe by the meane of the chyrches techynge byleueth to be the worde of god techeth hym also to byleue that thys thynge whyche yt byleueth of our lady is eyther good to byleue or at the lestewyse not euyll nor lyke smoke to sore eyes syth our sauyour hym selfe in the same scrypture sayth that the spyryte of god shall teche them all trouth and lede them into euery trouth and that for euer syth hym selfe there promyseth that he wyll not leue them but be wyth them for euer vnto the worldes ende And thus good crysten â—eaders ye se to what wourshypfull conclusyon wyth a fourfolde confusyon Tyndale hath brought hym selfe wyth layenge thys artycle wherby he wolde mynysshe the wourshyppe of our most blessed lady But lykewyse as he speketh here of the assumpcyon of our lady the bylefe wherof he wolde sholde seme to serue of nought the same sayth he in dyuerse places of the bylefe of the perpetuall vyrgynyte of our lady sayenge that it is nothynge pertaynynge to the saluacyon of our soule But I saye that the catholyke chyrche of Cryste byleueth that the bylefe therof beynge as it is and from the begynnyng hath ben taught by the holy goost so perteyneth to the saluacion of our soules that the contrary bylefe perteyneth to the dampnacyon of our soules yf heresye be dampnable And that thys is no new artycle well appereth by that that the olde holy doctour saynt Hierome so ferforth rekened it for heresye that he wrote an hole boke agaynste the olde heretyke Heluidius for the confutacyon of the heresye In which vertuouse boke saynt Hierom neyther proueth nor goeth aboute to proue her perpetuall vyrgiâ—yte by sâ—rypture but onely proueth that the places of scryptâ—re whyche â—â—â—â—â—dius brought forth for the contrary were not effectuâ—â—◠〈◊〉 proue hys malycyouse purpose agaynste the comen râ—â—â—â—ued fayth of Crystes catholyke chyrche Agaynste whyche we may be very sure that the scrypture neuer speketh in dede how apparent so euer an heretyke make it seme For lykewyse as though a sophyster wolde wyth a fonde argument proue vnto a symple soule that two egges were thre bycause that there is one and there be twayne and one and twayne make thre that symple vnlerned man though he lakke lernynge to soyle his fonde argumeÌ„t hath yet wyt inough to laugh thereat and to ete the two egges hym self and byd the sophyster take and ete the thyrde So is euery faythfull man as sure in the syghte of hys soule how apparently so euer an heretyke argue by scrypture to the contrary that the comen fayth of Crystes catholyke chyrche is out of questyon trewe and that the scripture vnderstanden ryght is neuer therto contrary syth he woteth well bothe by hys fayth and by the scrypture that the chyrche is taught hys fayth by god and hys holy spyryte accordynge to Crystes promyse that can neuer be false and woteth well also that god neuer techeth agaynste the trouth nor wryteth agaynst hys worde but that the contraryete that semeth arryseth of heretykes malycyouse soteltye or as holy saynte Austayne sayth for lakke of well vnderstandyng whych mysse vnder staÌ„dynge may sone mysse lede yâ— man whych lyst to leue the fayth of Crystes catholyque chyrche and lene to the doctryne of a false heretyque or to the lykynge his owne wyt But for bycause Tyndale wyll when we haue all sayed stykke styll at one poynt and aske vs what shall profyte his soule to byleue that our ladye is in heuen bodye and soule of whyche he playnely â—yleueth the contrary bothe for her bodye and her soule for he byleueth wyth Luther that all soules slepe and slepe shall tyll the daye of dome and wyll aske vs also what profyteth hym to byleue that our ladye was a perpetuall virgyne and neuer hadde chylde but Cryste syth none of those both articles is proued by playne scrypture and we myght be saued well inough though our ladyes body cam not in heueÌ„ tyll domes day also though she hadde mo sonnes then one and mo husbaÌ„des to I wyll aske hym then agayne what profyteth hym to byleue that our sauyour hym selfe dyed a virgyne and neuer had wyfe nor chylde syth that artycle is not proued by very playne
in whyche as my lorde of Rochester sayed it appereth playne that saynt Poule sayth hym selfe that he taught thynges by mouth whyche he wrote not And what sayth Tyndale to it there he sayth nothyng ellys in this world but as he sayth here that the thynges whiche saynt Poule taught by mouth were the selfe same thynges that he wrote And then goeth he forth wyth a longe babelary parte to no purpose parte playne heresye and fareth as though hym selfe had standeÌ„ by all the whyle that saynt Poule taughte any thynge by mouth Now whyther hys wâ—rdes be to purpose or not I pray you consyder your selfe we saye that these sacramentes and many holy ceremonyes vsed in the chyrche in the masse and in other partes of dyuyne seruyce were taught by the spyryte of god and delyuered by hys blessed apostles Nay sayth Tyndale that coude not be for all necessarye thynges that they taught they wrote Proue that say we and take all But we wyll proue by saynt Poules owne wordes that he taught thinges that he wrote not For he byddeth the Thessalonicensis kepe and obserue well all that he had taught theÌ„ eyther by mouth or letters then that none of them were any necessary poyntes that poynt we byd Tindale proue His profe therin ye haue herd before that yf the apostles wrote not all suche thynges what coude it auayle that they wrote any thinges at all And that reason ye remember that we haue aâ—swered before and proued it a great foly to reken that in our owne realme no law byndeth that is vnwryten bycause there be many wryten or that theyr wrytynge were vnprofytable that wrote vs parte bycause they wrote vs not all But now in that place of the obedyence where the rude rybaude rayleth agaynste the reuerende father my lorde bysshop of Rochester he sayth styffely that none of those thynges whyche we speke of and specyally sacramentes or ceremonyes were any of those thynges that saynt Paule taught by mouth Then aske we hym wherby know you that Mary sayeth he for I shall tell you what he taughte He taughte the same that he wrote and hys tradycyons were the gospell that he preached and good maners and vertues and some good custumes to that be synnes for abuses chaunged as â—ysâ—ynge eche other And some he taught as preceptes and some as good counsayâ—es as virginite and wydolye chastyte not to â—ynne heuen therby For neyther cyrcumcysyon nor vncyrcumcysyon is any thynge at all but the kepynge of the commaundementes is all togyder but that they myghte be without trowble and the better wayte on goddys wordes and the frelyer serue theyr bretherne Here I passe by his heresyes that in these wordes appere bothe agaynst vyrgynyte and wydoly chastyte whyche he meaneth to be nothynge worth as touchynge any rewarde to be gyuen for them in heuyn For though he say no ferther here but that they wynne not heuyn whyche euery man agreeth yet meaneth he ferther as he declareth in many other places and as it here appereth by hys ensample of circumcysyon I let passe also hys heresye concernyng the cyrcuÌ„cysyon whyche wyth hys false vnderstandynge of saynte Poule he wolde haue taken â—o haue standen in no stede at all towarde heuen and by the same reason no more he wold that baptysme neyther as he hath oftentymes declared I let passe also that by those wordes of saynte Poule whyche hym selfe now bryngeth in that the kepynge of the coÌ„maundemeÌ„tes is all togyther hys owne heresyes be ouer throwen For yf the kepynge of the coÌ„maundementes be all together then fayth alone is not all together But rather as he maketh cyrcumcysyon nothynge bycause the coÌ„maundemeÌ„tes be all so myghte he make fayth nothyng bycause the coÌ„maundementes be all togyther But he maketh saynt Poules wordes to serue hym for hys iuglynge stykke For saynte Poule meaneth of cyrcumcysyon alone in the olde lawe wyth fayth and good workes as saynte Iamys speketh of fayth And in the new law now it is nothynge at all in dede These wordes also of saynt Poule destroye Tyndales heresye that mennys good workes be not rewarded in heuyn and that it is idolatrye to serue god wyth any bodyly workes or to do any of theÌ„ to come the rather to heueÌ„ For yf the kepyng of the coÌ„maundementes be all togyther and some of them be bodyly workes a man maye lawfully do them for goddys sake and to his worshyp to and haue his rewarde in heuen to But now lettyng these poyntes passe as I saye I wold aske Tyndale whyther amonge those poyntes that saynte Poule taught by mouth whyche he wrote not were any thynges necessarye to be byleued or done vppon parell of our soules helth If he say ne then destroieth he his whole reason that he made afore for the contrarye where he sayde that yf the apostles taught any suche thynges wrote them not what auayleth all those thynges that they wrote If he saye nay but that all the thynges that he taught by mouth were thynges of lytle weyght and not worth the wrytyng and that therfore he wrote vnto the Corinthyes that all the other thynges he wold dispose and ordayne hym selfe at his commynge bycause he rekened them not worthy to occupy place in hys pystle yf Tyndale tell vs thys we wyll aske hym who tolde hym so and wherby he knoweth that saynte Poule taught the people by mouth no mo thynges nor of none other kynde then Tyndale sayth he dyd was hym self at that tyme companyon to saynt Poule and that so coÌ„tynuall and so vnseparable that daye nor nyght he neuer departed from hym but euer watched hym so surely that he coulde neuer saye nothynge but Tyndale stode by and herd hym Tyndale in this poynt well perceyueth hym selfe howe harde a parte he hath to proue And therfore seynge that he hath entrede a mater that he can not ende hath sayd that he can neuer make good at laste he waxeth angry And bycause he can not tell all thynge that saynt Poule taught as he beganne to take vppon hym he coÌ„cludeth nothyng but that saynt Poule taught none of the sacramentes nor ceremonyes that Luther and he reproue And thus he sayth Tyndale But that the apostles gaue vs any blynde ceremonies whereof we coulde not knowe the reason that I denye and also defye More Forsoth saue for the ryme I wolde not geue a ryshe neyther for his denyeng nor for hys defyenge nor for any reason that he layeth forth therfore For where he sayth that yt is contrary to the lernynge of saynt Poule euery where I say that therein Tindale sayth not trew For saynt Poule reproued but the superstyciouse truste that the iewes hadde as well in theyr ceremonyes sacramentes as in the workes of theyr law wythout fayth and iustyce and dedes of cheryte and the superstycyon 〈◊〉 them also that thought theym selfe bounden of necessyte to kepe them styll after the new lawe promulgate and spred about wheÌ„
proue the contrary For we se that the chyrche hath kepte dyuerse thynges wythout scrypture thys .xiii. C. yere and as it is thought .ii. C. yere afore and is yet as lykely to kepe it as many mo and twyse as many mo yf the worlde laste so longe Now haue they be kepte so longe eyther by man or by the deuyll or ellys by god And yf Tindale say that eyther man or deuyll haue kepte them all thys whyle we maye be bold to tell hym that then was god as able to kepe them as was any of those both and neded no more scrypture therto then neded eyther man or deuyll Tyndale proueth vs not neyther that when the thynges were wryten they were therby sure as he sayth to endure for euer For he proueth not by scrypture that the scrypture shall endure for euer For though the scrypture saye that the worde of god shall laste for euer and that there shall not therof the leste letter be loste yet is that ment of the sonne of god and of the mater of the worde vnwryten and not of the wordes wryten in scrypture excepte none of saynt Poules epystles be loste or that suche as be lost was no scrypture or yâ— in those pystles were no letters Nor Tyndale hath not proued that the scrypture is so clerely wryten but that god nedeth as well to sterre vp prophetes with miracles for the declaracion of the trouth therof whyle the false exposytours be so contencyouse as he shold haue neded for the teachynge kepynge and confyrmacyon of the poyntes of fayth vnwryten And as I byfore sayde eueÌ„ so he doth And thus ye se that these wordes are to Tyndale very lytle worth But then sayeth he farther Tyndale By the scrypture the counsayles generall and not by open myracle haue concluded suche thynges as were in them determined as storyes make mencyon More Lette Tyndale brynge forth one story that sayeth as he sayth and then â—ette hym tell vs the tale agayne I make my selfe very sure that he shall fynde no story that shall say that the generall counsayles in theyr coÌ„clusyons regarded no miracles but onely scrypture For he shall fynd in the storyes that the good holy fathers that were in dyuerse of the generall counsayles of whom there be many that all CristeÌ„ people honour and worshyppe for sayntes had many thynges to moue them to determyne and conclude agaynste heretykes of whych thynges the scrypture was one and was not all For when the Arrianes and the catholykes were in debate vppon the vnderstandynge of the scryptures as the catholyques be wyth these heretykes now the catholyques dyd not onely se then that the heretykes wrested mysse coÌ„strewed the scrypture as we se that these heretyques myche more mysse wreste yt now but they saw also that the comeÌ„ fayth of the catholyke chyrche was receyued byleued byfore that heresye bygon and beynge very sure by the promise of god that yf that fayth hadde ben false the spirite that god sent vnto his chyrch wold neuer haue sufferd the catholike chyrch the corps of Crysten people the mystycall bodye of Cryste of fall into that bylyefe they were thereby wyth that faytâ— wryten by the fynger of god in theyr crysteÌ„ hartes very sure that the Arrianes were heretyques and so sholde they haue ben though neuer word of scrypture hadde ben wryten and sholde haue concluded agaynste the Arrianes in lyke wyse as they dyd They saw also that god dyd miracles in hys catholyque chyrche and sufferd none amonge the Arrianes sauynge in the takynge of vengeaunce vppon them to theyr payne and shame as when Arriâ—s guttes fell out of his bely into the draught as we dayly se that he doth and euer shall se that he shall do in hys catholyke chyrche and suffreth none to be done amonge all the scoulkes of heretykes nor neuer shall suffer tyll the dome nere approche but onely in detectynge theyr wykkednesse and bryngynge them to the fyre as our lady by miracle brought Berquyne of late at Parise thys thynge vndowtedly not a lytle confermed the fayth made the chyrche boldely conclude agaynste the Arrians And this thynges appereth well in storyes very old and autentyque And Tyndale shall I am sure neuer brynge vs forth his stories saynge that the generall couÌ„sayles hadde no regarde to miracles And yf he wyll saye that the storyes tell that there was none open miracles done at the generall counsayles yet I wene shall he fynde none such storyes neyther And yf he wyll say that the storyes do not tell of any open miracles done at the generall cooÌ„sayles theÌ„ shall he tell vs a tale to lytle purpoâ—e For surely so many as were shewed bysyde yt was a thynge that neded not But then goeth he farther and sayth Tyndale And by the same scryptures we knowe whyche counsayles were trewe and whyche false More Thys is a pratye poynt lo. For now may ye se for what cause he sayth that the generall counsayles made theyr determynacyons by scrypture and not by miracle bycause he wolde haue yt seme that there were nothynge of goddes spiryte wurkynge wyth the generall counsales but onely the wytte and affeccyons of men so that he wolde as appereth playnely by this worde haue them serue all of nought but euery heretyque lefte at lybertye to saye nay to them all For he sayth that by the scrypture we knowe whyche of those counsayles were trewe and whyche false But where he sayth we knowe I wolde wytte of hym whyche we he meaneth whyche of his hundred new sectes he calleth hys we For they agre so euyll to gether that the thyng whych the tone sayth that by the scripture he knoweth for trew the tother sayth that by the scrypture he knoweth for false Tyndales mayster Marâ—en Luther and all the sectes in Almayne call for a generall counsayle Now wolde I wyt to what purpose yf all that were concluded therin sholde be neuer the surer but that euery frowarde fole maye as well after as he myghte before say that he knoweth by scrypture that the counsayle was false and all that was determyned therin was nought Thus myghte an Arryan an erraunt heretyke saye now that he knoweth by scrypture that all was false that was determyned in the counsayles agaynste the Arrians of olde Saynt Poule wyll that when one speketh the remenaunte that is the hole congregacyon shall iudge As yet at thys daye yf a preacher preache heresye god hath by the fayth wryten in crysten meÌ„nys hartes made the people able to knowe hym for nought excepte it be a false preacher wyth a false company wyllyngly drawen togyther and fallen from the chyrche whyche false preacher and his companye is euer able to be iudged by the hole chyrch remaynyng styll in the formare fayth And now wyll father Tyndale that euery obstynate heretyke euery pratelynge fole euery smaterer in scrypture shall be iudge ouer all the generall counsayles and ouer all the hole corps of