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A18441 [A treatise against the Defense of the censure, giuen upon the bookes of W.Charke and Meredith Hanmer, by an unknowne popish traytor in maintenance of the seditious challenge of Edmond Campion ... Hereunto are adjoyned two treatises, written by D.Fulke ... ] Charke, William, d. 1617, attributed name.; Fulke, William, 1538-1589. 1586 (1586) STC 5009; ESTC S111939 659,527 941

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30. entreating vpon this place Illud verò non praetermittendum quòd quando peccata paralytici dimisit non apertè potestatem suam manifesiauit Non enim dixit dimitto tibi peccata tua sed dimittuntur tibi peccata tua inimicis autem vrgentibus manifestius suam potestatem oftendit Ait enim vt sciatis quia potestatem habet filius bominis in terra peccata di mittere perpendisne quam longè abest vt nolit aequalis patri putari non enim dixit potestatem habere à deo filium hominis aut quia dedit sibi Deus potestatem sed potestatem habet filius hominis nec ad gloriam dico ait sed vt vobis persuadeam quia non blasphemo cùm meip sum patri aequalem faciam But this thing is not to be passed by that when he forgaue the sins of the palsy man he did not openlie manifest his power for he did not saie I forgiue thee thy sinnes but thy sinnes are forgiuenthes But when his enimies vrged him hee showeth his power more manifestlie for he saith that you maie knowe that the sonne of man hath power on earth to forgiue sinnes Doest thou not marke howe farre of it is that he would not bee thought equall to his father for he saide not that the sonne of man hath power from God or that God hath giuen him power but the sonne of man hath power neither saith he doe I speake it for to glorie in but that I might perswade you that I doe not blaspheme when I make my selfe equall with my father The same interpretatiō hath Euthymius vpon the place S. Ambrose also acknowledgeth the diuinitie of Christ to be prooued by forgiuenes of sinnes in Luc. 5. Cognosce interioris hominis sanitatem cui peccata donantur quae cùm Iudoaei asserunt a solo Deo posse donari deum vtique confitentur suoque iudicio perfidiam suam produnt vt opus astruant personam negent c. Acknowledge the healing of the innar man to whome his sinnes are forgiuen which when the Iewes doe affirme that they can be forgiuen by God alone they do confesse verely that he is god by their owne argument bewray their falshoode that they allowe his worke and denie his person Therefore euen of them the sonne of god receiueth testimonie of his worke requireth not the suffrage of their voice For falshoode can confesse but it cannot beleeue Therefore there wanteth no testimonie to his diuinitie but faith is wanting to their saluation for both it is more straunge for credit which they confesse vnwilling and also more pernitious to their fauls that they denie which are conuinced by their owne assertions Great therefore is the madnes of the vnfaithfull people that when they haue confessed that it pertaineth to God onelie to forgiue sinnes they will not giue credit to God when he doth forgiue sinnes And a litle after where he also acknowledgeth the power of remitting sinnes which is graunted to men he doth neuerthelesse affirme that God onelie doth forgiue sinnes Quamuis igitur magnum sit hominibus peccata dimittere quis enim potest peccata dimittere nisi solus Deus quiper eos quoque dimittit quibus dimittendi tribuit potestatein tamen multò diuinius est resurrecti onem donare corporibus For although it be a great thing to forgiue sinnes to men for who can forgiue sinnes but god alone whoe also forgiueth by them to whome he hath giuen power of for giuing yet it is a much more diuine worke to giue resurrection to mens bodies This 〈◊〉 of S. Ambrose sheweth not onelie that Christ by his diuine power as god forgaue sinnes in this place but that God onelie doth properlie 〈◊〉 when he vseth the ministery of men so that not 〈◊〉 S. Hilarie but euen the consent of al the auncient writers is a gainst your new imagination ALLEN But to returne 〈◊〉 to our 〈◊〉 when Christ had declared that the Sonne of man had in earth power to remit sinnes he then by this farther proofe and argument ouerturneth the wholl cause of their 〈◊〉 and inward 〈◊〉 against him for the same whether is it more easie to saie thy sinnes be forgiuen thee or to saie to the incurable person take vp thy bed and walke I due the one in all your sightes and he is cured at my worde why then mistrust you the other It was no lesse the propertie of God alone to he all him sodainlie of his corporall infirmitie that had beene desperatclie sicke so long then to forgiue sinnes but the one power though by 〈◊〉 it was proper to him selfe yet he gaue it in the sight of you all to the sonne of man in earth why then mistrust you but he might well giue the other This reason proceeding from the wisedome of Gods owne sonne shall helpe our faith much touching this article and shall not a litle further the dignitie of the 〈◊〉 whoe also after their masters example may prooue the force of their authoritie vppon mennes soules which cannot be open to our bodelie eyes by the apparant power that their wordes shal be seene openlie to worke on mens bodies especiallie if it be well weighed that Christ wrought miracles also not onelie by the excellent dominion and force of his godhead but also as Saint Augustine prooueth by the spirts of God in respect of his manhoode In quo spiritu sanflo saith he operatus est virtuies dicens Si ego in spiritu dei eiicto daemonia certè superuenit in vosregnum Dei In the pow er of which holie ghost Christ wrought miracles according to his owne saying in these words if I expel out deuils by the spirit of god then surelie the kingdome of God wil come on you The Iews therefore seing themselues thus ouercome in their cogitatiòns waxed affraied and glorified God who gaue such power to men For though no man euer had equall authoritie or like power to Christ who was both God and man yet of this plentifull spirit and vnction manie of his brethren haue through his ordinance recciued part as shortlie now is shall be prooued In the meane time arme thy selfe against 〈◊〉 with this approoued and certaine trueth that not onelie God by his passing prerogatiue maie forgiue sinnes but that he hath so soueraignclie 〈◊〉 Christ our Priest and head that as he is man and occupieth the said functions in earth he maie remit by the vertue of the holie Ghost our offences also 〈◊〉 That which before but doubtinglie and vnder correction of better learned men you propounded to the end that like a subull serpent you might writhe in your head now as a conquerer of the wholl cause you thrust in your wholl bodie and as though you had gained your purpose you affirme steadfastlie that although it was no lesse the propertie of God alone to heale the man sodainelie of his corporall infirmitie then to forgiue sinnes yet as he gaue the one power to
gratia gratum faciens such a grace as maketh a man acceptable to God Therefore the holie Ghost breathed vpon the Apostles then by Christ and giuen yet to Priests in their ordering by Bishopes is a gift of God and a grace of the holy ghost not whereby man is made rertuous or cunning or happie before God but it is a gift onelie of God whereby man is called aboue his owne nature and dignitie to haue power and authoritie to doe and exercise anie function in Gods Church to the spirituall benefit of the people which is not onelie not alwaies ioyned to vertue and holie knowledge but it full often by calling due to them which are moste wicked persons without anie impaire of their authoritie And these kinde of giftes and graces of the holie Ghost be called gratiae gratis datae certaine giftes giuen to men for no desertes of their persons but freelie for the vse of other men to whome they be beneficiall euen there where they be hurtfull to the bestowers In which sense Saint Paule numbreth a great sorte in the fourth to the Ephesians and the first Epistle to the Corinshians and he calleth them not onelie the graces of the spirite but also the diuisions of functions and ministrations as the gift of working of miracles the gift of tongues the gift of prophecying the gift of preaching and so foorth all which being the giftes and graces of the spirit for the Churches edifying and of Saint Peter being called the holy Ghost in the Actes yet they were giuen to euill men often as well as to good without all imparing of Gods honoure yea with the great encrease of God glorie that euen by the wicked is able to worke his wil and holie purpose for the benefit of his Elect. And in this sense the spirite of God breathed vpon the Apostles was a gift of the holie Ghost whereby man should remit by lawfull power the sinnes of the people Whereupon Theophilact sayeth that Potestatem quandam donum spirituale dedit Apostolis vs remittant peccata ostendens quod genus spiritualium donorum eis dederit inquit quorum remiser it is peccata remittuntur eis that is to saie Christ gaue to his Apostles a certaine power and spirituall gift whereby they might remit sins for he shewed what power of the spirit it was that breathed on them when he said whose sinnes you doe for giue they be forgiuen Whosoeuer shall vndoubtedlie remit sinnes and absolue sinners must haue the same gift of the holie Ghost which the Apostles had whereby he cannot erre And this gift no man denieth but it maie be in a wicked and vngodlie man For euen such an one may preach the doctrine of Christ of remission of sinnes publikelie and priuatlie if he haue the calling that is required to that office Neither doth Caluine or any other that are of his iudgement otherwise require the like force of the holie ghostes assistance in al men that take vpon them to remit sinnes For there is not onelie a power but a knowledge required in him that shall assuredlie and vndoubtedlie forgiue sinnes And therefore the papistes doe vnreasonably make a diuorse of the keie of power from the keie of knowledge which power if it be no guided by knowledge doth nothing but insteade of opening and shutting with the keies committed to the Church throw forth the keies as the blinde man casteth his staffe which cannot happen so right in to the locke that they should open it to the penitent sinners For it is not the Priestes authoritie that can open the dore of comforte to a sinners conscience except he can declare vnto him out of the word of God how and by what meanes he maie be reconciled vnto God That the holie Ghost is giuen by Bishopes to Priestes in their ordering it is more boldlie affirmed then euer it can be prooued for Christ onelie hath authoritie to giue the holy Ghost and therefore to declare that it commeth from him alone among men he breathed vpon his Apostles which though the Bishops doe vntill their longues ake yet can they not furnish their parties by them ordered with giftes meet for their calling as Christ did his Apostles They must make choise therefore according to the Doctrine of the Apostle of those that haue those gratious and necessarie giftes of God before and to them they must commit the power and authoritie to exercise the same to the publike benefice of the Church But if they wil giue authoritie to them that haue no wisdome to exercise the same they make the most foolish iudges of all the world and such are worthelie contemned Therefore howsoeuer you distinguish grace you must not seeke to winne credit to them which haue nothing but pretense of authoritie when they be voide of all vnderstanding how to vse it as manie hundreds yea thousandes of your hedge Priests are if their calling were neuer so good as it is moste corrupt and vnlawfull ALLEN If our aduersaries be ignorant of these thinges which be so common in schooles of diuinitie yet we think they should remember that Saint Paul did not dissalow the authoritie nor power of preaching in such as were euil men and taught for emulation and not of sincere zeale of the Gospell and that Christ him-selfe stopped not such as cast out deuilles in his name and therefore were not without the gifte of workeing miracles though he professed that manie of them at the date of iudgement challenging some right of heauen vpou that acte should not be receiued to glory how the gift of prophecy was common in the olde 〈◊〉 not onelie to the wicked but to such as willinglie would deceiue the people And Caiphas he prophecied by the spirit of God as by force of his office being yet in purpose to worke wickednes against Christ himselfe for whose trueth he then by force of the spirit prophecied But of the Sacramentes of Gods Church euerie one that they may beministred beneficiallie to the receiuing in much wickednes of the giuer there is no man can be ignorant For it is a rule and a principle moste certaine that God worketh his will in them by the ministerie of men be they neuer so euill For elle they were mans sacraments and not Gods and we could not be certaine neither of our baptisme neither of right receiuing of Christes bodie in the holie sacrament of his eultar nor of any other spirituall benefit that we now by mans ministery receiue in the Church Much cōsort it were for al Christian people to hauesuch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then soules and such disposers of Gods mysteries as would could in all sinceritie and faithfulnes worke Gods 〈◊〉 and that would alwaies vse the high power giuen them to 〈◊〉 and neuer to destroie and that they would so doe both S. Peter and S. Paule doe often exhort them But neither the miserie of mans sinsull nature can suffer that nor our wickednes can
to Christianitie for they will giue all ouer them selues But briefllie to conclude vp the answere to their reason founded vpon Nouatus his principle touching Gods honour thus I saie That neuer derogateth to Gods honour which is agreable to gods ordinance but that priests should remit sinnes is the ordinance of God as is declared therefore the vse thereof doth not derogate any whit to gods honour Againe as great workes and as proper to god as remission of sinnes was practized by the Apostles and yet is vsed by the Bishops of holie Church without all dishonour of god giuing the holie ghost and gods grace by laying on of 〈◊〉 Ergo remission of sinnes may be also practized of priests without all iniurie to God and the onelie right therein FVLKE Whethersoeuer the force of trueth or prouidence of God driue heretikes we haue no purpose to follow them The gifts which god bestoweth on his Church and the ministers thereof with all humilitie and thankefulnes we acknowledge receiue and exercise to his glorie and the benefit of his Church although we arrogate nothing vnto our selues either in them or in any other thing that is proper to God And therefore it is both a vaine and a false complaint that the Church adorned with Gods blessinges is forsaken and a congregation barren of all Gods giftes imbraced All offices of ministerie in the Church that God hath ordained we admit and practise neither will we giue ouer anie thing for all your childish prating whereof we haue warrant to enioie it out of the word of God To your syllogismes I answere thus to the first That to exercise the Power of remission of sinnes in such sorte as it is ordained of God is no dishonour to God but a great honour To the second I denie that anie thing proper to God as remission of sinnes giuing the holie Ghost and Gods grace as it is proper to God was or could be practised by the Apostles or anie mortal man properly otherwise I confesse that remission of sinnes as Christ hath commaunded it may be practised without all iniurie to God and his onelie right therein For further proofe of the forsaid matter it is declared that neither Christ nor his euerlasting Father nor the holie Ghost doe giue ouer vnto man or resigne the power of remission or anie other holie function of the Church but doe themselues continuallie worke all those graces by mans mynisterie and seruice THE EIGHT CHAP. ALLEN FVrthermore we must here consider that what worke soeuer God appointeth man to exercise in his Church either in remission of sinnes or giuing grace of Gods spirit or what other holie action soeuer may in his name be done for the benefite of the people by the ministerie and seruice of man either by the meanes and mediation of any other instrumentall cause we must learne that in these workes so wrought either by man or through other creatures God doth not resigne his right to the waies and workers thereof and giue ouer the wholl title that is due to himselfe in the saide diuine acts For then in deede mans practize should derogate from Gods power and he should as it were succeed God in the right of his proper power and euerlasting inheritance which onelie to surmise as heretikes do were meere follie Christ is by euerlasting right made the head of the Church and he resigneth not this office to anie mortall man For if he did then the partie that should by his graunt occupie for a season the same dignitie were his fuccessour and should holde in like right the same office as he did before But that notwithstanding he hath made his substitute and vicegerent by whom in his corporall absence he ruleth now the Church as he did before in his owne person not giuing ouer his preheminence supreame power therein but now practizing that by another which afore he exercised him selfe in his owne person It had beene a great derogation to Christ that Peter should haue bin Christes heir and successour for then Christ had lost the perpeiuitie an other man gouerning after him in like right and preheminence as he had before But for Peter to rule the Church vnder him in his steade as by his euerlasting right with commission from him that holdeth that soueraigntie for euer by whomesoeuer the Church shall be ruled till the worlds end in earth this I saie is no derogation to God nor his sonne Christ at all but it much prooueth that Christ according to his manhood is the head of the Church for euer because by man in earth he ruleth the same til his comming again the whichman though he be his vicar vicegerent yet he is not his successour Saint Augustine did trimlie allude to the vse of the olde law comparing the ministers of Gods Church to the yonger brethren who were charged to marrie the elder brothers wife when he died without issue in whose name they did practize the worke of mariage and therefore could not call their children by their owne names but by the name of their elder breethren For as they raised seede to their brother and for their brothers honour so the Priests that haue taken vpon them as it were in mariage to gouerne Christes Church and to bring forth children not in their owne names but in the name of their elder brother and her departed Husband As when they bring foorth children in Baptisme as through the wombe of the Church they bring them not forth as for them-selues and in their owne names but in the name of Iesus Christ beeing their elder brother euen so it is in remission of sinnes also in which case Christ resigneth not his authoritie as though he lacked that power him-selfe but practzeth that mightie worke by the ministerie of man which before he exercised in his owne person And as the baptzing not in the name of Peter nor Paull nor Apolle but in the name of Christ the first husband of the Church after whome the Children be called Christianes not Petrianes nor Paulianes doth much set foorth the honour of the eldest spouse so it prooueth and augmenteth Christes euerlasting honour and moste iuste title in remission of sinnes that till this daie no lesse now in absence by the seruice of his Priestes then before when he was present by his owne worde and will sinnes be in his name and faith fullie remitted yea euen the verie function of Preaching the Gospell which they saie is meant by remitting of sinnes although they say most foolishlie therein and against the common sense of all the fathers yet euen that function is Christs still though it be vsed of man in earth FVLKE You are as plentifull in proofe of that which is confessed as you are naked and barren in proouing that which is denyed The title of your Chapter we will graunt you without proofe and according thereunto we are content to decide this controuersie But you will no longer abide by it
that they haue any such power of healing bodelie diseases It is a better reason that you alledge out of Saint Augustine that remission of sinnes in the Church respecteth the iudgement to come but that he speaketh there of any temporal iudgement after this life you are not able to prooue Neither doth the citing of the text of Saint Paull I. Cor. II. helpe you which he citeth to prooue that temporall paines are laide vpon men in this life to them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued to the ende as his wordes are plaine in that wholl Chapter Magis enim propter futurum iudicium fit remissio peccatorum In hac autem vita c. For remission of sins ie made rather for the iudgement to come For in this life it preuaileth so much which is written a heauie yoke vpon the sons of Adam from the daie of their comming forth of their mothers wombe vnto the day of their buriall into the mother of all thus we see euen litle children after the lauer of regeneration to be tormented with the affliction of diuerse euills that we may vnderstand that all which is doue by the healthfull sacraments doth pertaine rather to the hope of good thinges to come then to reteining or obteining things present Manie euills also seeme to forgiuen heere and to be reuenged with no punishments but the paines of them are reseruea vntill afterwarde For not in vaine is that called properlie the daie of iudgement when the iudge of the quicke and the deade shall come As on the contrarie side some things are reuenged heere and yet if they be remitted verilie in the worlde to come they shall not hurt Wherfore of certaine temporall paines which are laid vppon sinners in this life in them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued vnto the ende the Apostle saieth for if we iudged our selues we should not be iudged of the Lord but when we are iudged of the Lord we are chastened that we should not be damned with this worlde Thus it is plaine by Saint Augustines iudgement that Saint Paull speaketh of temporall paines laied vppon sinners in this life to bring them to repentance not of temporal iudgement to be exercised after this life But you meane not that Popes or Bishops pardons should alwaies take away bodelie sicknes because Christ did not so vnto ai Nay rather because they are not able to heale a sore finger in any one man For Christ healed as many as he would if the Pope haue Christs power why should he not as well heale whome he will Your similitude that as Christ tooke away temporall paines so may Popes and priests holdeth not for there is great odds betweene Christ and his seruants he did what he would they may doe no more then he hath giuen chem power and charge And for releasing of times of repentance appointed to satisfie the Church they may by power giuen from him but for the releasing of debt to be paied in the world to come he gaue them neither authority nor cōmaundement That the priest doth dailie heale in your sacrament of aneling it is an impudent lie For first they anoint none in their dailie practize but such as are in dispaire of life of whom if any recouer by the wilof God it is sacriledge to impure it to the power of the priests anointing who hauenot the gift of healing as the elders of the Apostles Church had whome S. Iames willeth to be sent for to heale the diseased ALLEN But in Saint Paull we haue inuincible proofe of the authoritie and iurisdiction of Bishops and princivali pastcurs touching as well the power of enioyned pename and satisfaction for sinnes committed as the lawfull power of pardoning the same which before was enioyned and so in one fact of the Apostle a cleare practize of binding and loosing He first bound him by excommunication that had so greeuouslie offended and to shew what a terrible torment this kinde of panishment is and how much it is to be dred he maketh it euident by a slraunge corporall vexation that all Chrillian men might conceiue the miserie of those persons which be excommunicated hereafter when the externall signe and miraculous torment should ceasse in the Church I wili reporte the matter fullie There was amongst the Corinthians one of reputation that kept vnlawfullie his fathers wife the which being knowne to their Apostle Saint Paul who then was absent srom them and being accounted of him as in deede it was an exceeding grieuous fact and notorious he gaue in charge to the Church of Corinth to take the person that had so offended as excommunicated that is to saie to be separated from the sacraments the seruice and common fellowship of Saints But see with what a maiestie and might of operation with what force of wordes and authoritie of his calling with what a kinde of punishment Christes officer here correcteth the offender Thus runneth his determinate sentence on the offender that all the worlde may take heede and wonder at the Churches authoritie and condemne the vaine voices of them that doe restraine the power of Gods ministers onelie to the preaching of the Gospell I beeing absent in bodie but present in spirit haue alreadie giuen iudgement as well as if I were present that the person that hath thus wickedlie wrought should be deliuered vpto Sathan in the vertue of our Lorde Christ Iesus you there being gathered with my spirit in the name of our said Lord Christ Iesus and all for the vexation of his flesh that his soull may be safe in the daie of our Lord Iesus Christ. This in effect is the Apostles sentence on that incestuous person wherby he was temporallie tormented by the force of Saint Pauls power of binding sinners giuen by Christ and exercised no otherwise as you may see but in Christs vertue holie name Where it may be noted for a strange 〈◊〉 of mans word that the deuill himse fe should be therby appointed to torment a sinners bodie not as he would but as far as the diuine Magistrate shall limit him Diabolus enim quia ad hoc paratus est vt auerses à Deo 〈◊〉 in potestatem audita sententia corripit eos The 〈◊〉 saith Saint Ambrose who is alwaies readie to take them to his power that are turned from God sireight as soone as he heareth the sentence pronounced vpon sinners he doth afflict and correct them As it may also appeere by our Sauiours wordes in the Gospell of a woman that had spiritum infirmitatis the spirit of infirmitie whome the deuill had eighteene yeares together fast bound in sickenes for her sinnes to whome also Christ gaue a pardon by imposition of his holie handes Where we may haue an other example of his mercie in loosing the temporall band and punishment appointed for sinne But let vs turne to Saint Pauls patient whome we left by the key of the