a common man charging us in the Name of the Parliament and cannot visibly make out a visible excellency and supremacy of power by Ordinance or Commission 12. That these Churches who enjoy Christs minde as they think most fully in the practice of Ordinances yet have no greater gifts in their b Churches then there are in those called Independent or Separatist Prayer Teaching Prophesying being as fully and powerfully performed in the one as the other And being so Whether must not the Churches of Christ be distinguished by some more visible glorious power and gifts as at first c by which they may be discerned to excel all otheâ—Societies 13. That the fulnesse of time is not yet come for Ordinances For as there were several d seasons for the givings out of Truth before so now SEEKING or SEEKERS So called What their Way is and what they hold THat there is no Church nor Ordinances yet That if they did not end with the Primitive or Apostles times yet they are to begin as in the Primitive times with a gifts and miracles and that there is as much reason for the like gifts to make out the Truth of any of the Gospel now to an Antichristian estate as formerly to a Jewish or Heathenish That such a Beleever as can dispense Ordinances must be qualified as the Beleevers in Mark 16. and as the former b Disciples were That there is a time and c fulnesse for the Spirit and for the latter pure spiritual dispensations as there was formerly for the first dispensations And whether this shall be while the Angels are but powring out their Vials or not or when Babylon is fallen And whether there is not as much need for d new Tongues to reveal the pure Original to us it being conveyed with corruptions and additionals in Translations by which Truth may be more purely discovered and the waters of Life that now run muddily may flow more clear and crystal-like from the Throne e of God The Exceptions 1. THat Jesus Christ did promise to be ever with his a Church and therefore cannot be reasonably presumed to leave them without b Church and Ordinances 2. That if c Scriptures were not so pure and clear to us as the Word of Life were not sufficiently there God were lesse d gracious to us now under Grace and Christ come in the flesh then before to the Jews who gave them a Book of the Law which remained with them to the coming of the Messiah 3. That such gifts and miracles were rather for bringing the Word into the world and for glorifying Christs first coming in the flâ—sh then for e after 4. That if we must have miracles to make us beleeve and not beleeve any truth till then we must have for every Truth as well as for one or two a miracle to give it evidence and so there must be a continual and new miracle-working for every new beleeving 5. If there must be miracles for beleeving Truth is not of that excellent nature that it seems for if it be not able to make it self evident and cast a native and spiritual f shine or brightnesse upon that soul it comes into it is but weak dark and insufficient 6. If Truth be not discernable in it self by its own glorious light-some nature by beams from it self it is of a worse condition then many things bâ—low as the sun and stars and candles c. which bring that light in their own nature and dispensation by which they are discerned 7. If every Truth be a beam of g Christ the truth then every beam hath h light in it self because it streams from the fountain of light and so is discernable 8. That it is more glorious to take evidences from the Spirit then from any thing without which can at farthest of it self but convince the outward man 9. That all shall now in the last times be in a secret invisible inward spiritual glory no more in grosse carnal visible evidences and material beams as gifts and miracles And this is to know Christ no more after the flesh 10. No miracles can in their own nature make one beleeve without a spiritual conviction from the Spirit of Christ going along with it so as we see when miracles were wrought some beleeved and some beleeved not So as then there is no such reason for miracles as pretended because that conviction which comes from the Spirit through the work of a miracle may come by any other instrumental or organical way Or it is a more glorious operation by how much more single or by way of immediate revelation it works 11. To beleeve meerly by the i Spirit is far more glorious then by any other outward means though never so outwardly glorious by how much the Spirit is more excellent then any thing else by so much more divine and spiritual are the impressions of it 12. That when miracles are wrought yet a pretender may work a miracle for the contrary like the sorcerers of Egypt against Moses and Antichrist is spoken on rather to come k with signes and wonders of the two then Christ So as here shall be a losse to any that thinks to beleeve meerly by miracle So as the Spirit is that which must make us beleeve beyond all the power of miracle which can give out its power but upon the sense at furthest being meerly outward and visible 13. That there is no such power for Ordinances as is pretended but Beleevers as l Disciples may administer and so did the Apostles and Beleevers formerly as they were Disciples 14. That the Scriptures of the Gospel or New Testament are of such a m divine and even spiritual glory in the letter as no other word There is a power to discover the reason and secrets of the heart which the reason and heart of man witnesses unto There is a power to convince and accuse and terrifie and comfort clearly and undeniably and experimentally known 15. These Scriptures we have as they are do make a Discovery of such a way of Religion as reason never yet in any age attained to The men of purest reason as your old Philosophers never attained further then the knowledge of something infinite which they did not know and a Religion of humane or moral righteousnesse and purity and some sacrifices of atonement c. And there is not any Religion in the world Jewish or Turkish but they are made up of carnal principles and are founded upon reason and nature but this Gospel-Religion hath opened a new way of righteousnesse in one that is both God and Man in a most rational though infinite way of salvation and a way of Worship crosse to all methods and wayes of reason and the world opening new wayes by a new Spirit purifying natural reason into more divine and glorious notions then ever it yet attained bringing in a way of
bâ—leeving and placing a Religion upon a spirituâ—l perswasion called Faith which is more proportionable to an infinite God and an infinite way and depth of salvation then reason ever invented viz. for the soul to beleeve upon one even Jesus Christ in whom God hath laid up all love and fulnessâ— and so for man to become one with him who is God and Man and there cannot be a more rational way for man to become one with God then by one who is both God and Man 16. That though there be not such glorious powrings out of Spirit and such gifts as Beleevers both may and shall have yet all Beleevers ought to practice so far of the outward Ordinance as is clearly revealed they may 17. That the Scriptures or Gospel of the New Testament being as many hundred yeers old as from the Apostles even in that Original we have them no very material differences in Copies as it seems and though they have passed through the great Apostacy yet they have not had the power to corrupt them materially in their Original to advantage their heresies and corruptions which very constant preservation of Truth in the midst of the very Enemies of Truth is both a constant and standing miracle of it self and so we need not stay for a Ministery with miracle being we have a Word with miracle which in its matter subject power speaking of God of his Son God and Man of his Spirit the Actor in man from both by wayes of outward Ordinances of the depths windings and workings of reason c. is of as much efficacy to perswade as any thing else we can have and the way of the pure Spirit is a more glorious way of operation then any other of a visible sensual nature And God may be more glorified by quickening and spiritualizing a word and using the spiritually glorious Ministery of that then of man and they are far too low who look for their original teachings from man and not from the Word and Spirit CONCLUSION I Have drawn out this map of each opinion that your eye may travel over that in an hour which otherwise you might be a yeer in going over Thus each are discovered in a narrow yet full Discovery and I think all that are divinely rational will see no such cause to think that each hath attained so far that either they should presume in their degree or look down from the pinnacle of an infallibility upon each other I have set the strength and weaknesse of each opinion before it self that on the one side as it may glory so on the other side it may fear and be humble All I wish now is that we be all so far one at least in infirmity and this Common weaknesse as may be a ground of Common embodying and associating against the Common Enemy or Grand Antichrist as in States who when they are at lowest have least factions and when weakest are most peaceable with one another The GOSPEL or NEW TESTAMENT of JESUS CHRIST proved undeniably to be the very Word of God without Miracles to assure us of the particular duties in it Because there are some men now of more reason then sound belief I cannot but in a spiritual rationally way bear witnesse to our salvation in the written Word 1. IF there were not a Word or Will of God revealed in Laws and Ordinances written God were worse provided then the Law-givers of Nations and Kingdoms and the world were left to their own wills which is esteemed ridiculous in the eyes of all the Nations of the world in their very politike condition 2. The Laws and Ordinances contained in the Word or New Testamens bear onely the Image of a God in their holinesse purity righteousnesse glory infinitenesse eternity immortality which are all with many more things of like excellency there which are as the beams of light to the Sun or so many things of God revealing God 3. The Word is so tempered into a middle nature betwixt God and man as no Word can be more revealing the most glorious spiritual infinite things from a God in a mean literal figurative comparative significative way to man 4. To have a standing Word as the Gospel is is more for the glory and authority of a God then any ministery of man though with miracles and signes because such a Word where none can joyn themselves as Authors or Parties as in other wayes of dispensation by men men may joyn themselves doth undoubtedly hold forth most of God and of divine Authority and thus to maintain or preserve a Law or Word in the world is not so much with God as for Kings and Princes to maintain Statutes and Laws in their Kingdoms 5. A Word as the New Testament is may be as well a way and dispensation to an infinite God to make out himself by as any other either of dream or vision or Revelation or Oracle all being but wayes of a natural strain and condition no more then the Word 6. The very manner of dispensation or writing is such as hath the authority power wisdom counsâ—ls of a God the whole businesse of it being a work discovered to be begun by God and amongst men to set forth the glory of God the mercy love and wisdom of Gâ—d and the way by the Son of God and Spirit of God and all to be glorified with God and thus treating onely of things divine and a work divine in a way divine 7. We must either give up our selves to this Word wholly or not at aâ—l and then let the world and experience judge what kinde of Religion reason at large unbounded or unenlightened will bring forth by the former paterns of Heathenish and Gâ—ntilish Religion 8. Why should it not be thought the most clean and direct wâ—y for God to manifest himself to man by Word Gospel and Epistle and so by an infinite and invisible power and hand commend and convey it from age to agâ— from generation to generation as well as for men to make out their art reason knowledge experience into books and words written to their own and other generations 9. This Gospâ—l of Jesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way to sute with an infinite God then ever any device of man or reason could invent viz. upon faith upon a beleeving or spiritual perswasion wrought by the same God by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory no way measurable nor discernablâ— but by this way of beleeving and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself nor more for the advantage of the gloâ—y of a God taking all from the creature employing it wholly upon a God 10. There is more reason in this Gospel or New Testament in the way of Râ—ligion which it holds forth by Jesus Christ then ever could be thought on by the reason of man as for
out the glory of his Kingdom here therefore everie thing that proceeds by degrees is Christs government Here is some kind of Logick indeed as you say but no Scripture as for instance He that saies such a one is a living creature saies truâ—ly He that saies such a one is a beast sayes he is a living creature Therefore will it follow He that sayes such a one is a beast sayes truly So He that sayes Christs government proceeded slowly saies truly He that sayes your government proceeded slowly saies truly Therefore He that saies your government is Christs government sayes truly What have you got now by your Logick Whereas you say in your second Christ gave gifts and qualifications for government I answer If you and your Parishes have such gifts and qualifications as in Ephes. 4. 1 Cor. 12. set it up when you please if not what haste Master Ley's Resolution Pag. 26 27. Now to his Rules and Considerations of Prudence The more time saith he for trying spirits the lesse danger to that State c. I answer 1 It is the dutie of a State not only to try spirits but to rule them And rather to rule them than to try them Prov. 29.15 and the longer they live without the yoke of Discipline the more enormous And for trying all things there is a due proportion of time to be observed Though it hath been the ill hap of our Church c. to have the government fluttering on the lime-twig at Westminster when it should be on the wing of actuall execution in all over the Kingdome 2. He makes it a dangerous matter for the State to involve it selfe into the designes of Ecclesiasticall power But unseasonably applyed to Presbyteriall-government because both Popish and Prelaticall power is abjured by iâ— by Covenant 3. Whereas he saith There can be no danger in the not too sudden incorporating c. since Moses is not alivâ— c a new star may arise It is a groundlesse conceit refuted already and for that of Moses c. he bewrayeth his dâ—signe to debarre the government for ever and for that of a new star arising it prepares the way for some Barchochebas who preâ—ending to be Jâ—cobs star mislead thâ—Jâ—wes and was called â—swordâ— the son of a Iâ—e Reply You prove against me 1. That people ought to be ruled rather then tried c. 2. That some time is to be allowed for triall 3. That the government hath been fluttering too long at Westminster 4. That there is no danger to feare the Presbyteriall government which hath abjured Popery c. Dominion by Covenant 5. That some of this is refuted already 6. That my designe is to debarre it for ever 7. That a new star is a misleading star To your first I reply It is true in civill government rule there rather then try But what is that to Church-government or Discipline The rule there is the will of God which is the onely rule in government and legislative power in the Church and that is Try all things before either you rule or be ruled To your second Some time you will allow I see for triall but you ought not to measure and deal out time but by the Standard of the Word and before you call for such quick obedience as you do and as the Apostles did prove your power and truth and conclusions and by such Apostolicall and infallible evidence and then it is our sin if we submit not And let the time you deal out not be like that of States and Armies in their Treaties who are finall and peremptory in the seasons they set You cannot set such time the Spirit breaths when where it lifteth To your third What is that to the present Discipline what the Covenant abjures Covenant and Discipline are two distinct things a Covenant may abjure in word what yet a government may practice indeed Nor is it enough to abjure Popery in grosse but in every part and parcell And now having abjured it is not enough to sit downe in that satisfaction that we have sworn against Popery but to search out lest we be forsworn in the practice of it Such a duty begins from the time of abjuring and it lies not only upon the State to find out Popery but every one in his own particular is ingaged you and I and every Covenanter and therefore seeing you have ingaged thousands by conscience against Popery and to endeavour c. you are bound to give the same conscience liberty to bring in its result and enquiry els you make it a snare and trouble to Israel and not a Covenant And now I professe here a just and undeniable liberty by Covenant to bring forth all of Popery Prelacy or truth they know To your other Why should ye speak of the governments fluttering on a lime-twig at Westminster Sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly then to be thought their retarders or lime-twigs How have they honoured them above their Brethren printing their ingagements to the world before every Sermon calling them into so neer a capacity with themselves though Divines have been unfortunate before and their Predecessours raised in the curtesie and piety of former States and Parliaments into a law and power above their Brethren which I hope our Brethren will remember and beware of But because I would not wholly interpret you into so dangerous a sense against the State it may be you may call your dissenting Brethren the lime-twig which if you do you are contrary to your own Argument for you argued but lately the slow proceeding into a very warrantable and Scripture way and will you now mar all and defile your Argument with a lime-twig and bewray rather your slow proceeding to have been of constraint then conscience To your other That this is already refuted I say no more but as you have formerly refuted so I have formerly answered To your other That my designe by that of Moses is to debar it for ever I answer Yea for ever would I debar a government not clear from the Word and not one haire would I debar a government that had the name of Christ in Scripture-letters engraven upon it pure Gospel-principles and proceedings To your other that a new-star is to prepare for a misguider and your story of Barchochebas upon it it hath more lightsomnesse then light in it But why should you be so pleasant with my expression of truth by a star it is the very allegory of the spirit Christ calls himselfe the morning-star the light which springs from above The Spirit is called the day-star arising in our hearts and the Spouse is attired in a crown of twelve stars Nor do I call to any to look for a new created star of truth but an old yet new appearing star to us one of those stars in the Gospel-Firmament which the Clouds of Tradition and Ignorance hinder us from seeing And now what of your
is in English the Presbytery will keep the Magistracy doing and now who disparages the Magistrate Who set them on work Who makes them their Deputy-punishers Nay Who is the Sathan to whom the excommunicate are delivered It is an expression not much besides your principles and who disparages the Magistrate in that Master Ley's Resolution Page 41 42. To that of Truth being otherwise armed from Heaven I Answer We think it not meet to divide the subservient means from the supream power nor the exercise of Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall the sword of God and Gidion To that of the imputation of jealousie c. There is a godly jealouâ—â—e which would set up as many securities as may be against Heresie and impiety The faulty jealousie is theirs that would stifle the Government but there is a fear which we professe of Gods anger for connivence and communion with hereticall men c. There is in some an aversenesse to Heresie in a true zeal and love of God There be many other causes of jealousie but I will take but that one of the Lords and Commons p. 43. If Master Saltmarsh had well considered who were engaged c. he would not have under-valued their piety and prudence to compare them with Papists and Prelates I will conclude with a peece of his own politick advice c. Vpon such principles is Church-Government ordained for his Text out of the Revelation Revel. 18.1 As he began so he ends with mis-application of Scripture Reply You say you cannot divide Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall That is from the Magistrates This is a signe without further Argument that you do not hold your government for Christs because it cannot be effectuall of it selfe without help from below and the world and to another power then its own nor is the sword of God and Gideon any fair and just proof for joyning Presbytery and Magistracy it joyns onely God and the Magistates You say Your godly jealousie will set up as many securities as may be But then they are warrantable and Gospel-ways of security That is no godly Jealousie which sets up other wayes as Herod killing all the children to secure his Kingdome David dissembling to escape Jacob to get a blessing there is Jealousie but no godly Jealousie nor warrantable security So to secure any way though of truth by a power not allowed on in the Gospel as no such compulsive power is in your way is not to be jealous with a godly Jealousie though I deny not but some of those may be godly who are so jealous but not in that You say that some fear Gods anger for their Communion with Hereticks c. You know all such fear is onely warrantable in the Church not in the world It is not so with the Nations now as with the Iews Now if we have not communion with them in the Nation we must go out of the world But What communion is this you mean that will bring Gods anger You have your liberty to withdraw to separate as they from you If it be nationall or civill communion then you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest But whom you esteem Hereticks they it may be think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so and this is Heretick for Heretick interpretation against interpretation And since there is onely a sufficiency but no infallibility now as before since there is no Apostles for interpretation as at first for Revelation why do we thus cry out Hereticks Hereticks the Sword the Sword Let me put one Question here Suppose those you call Hereticks were of equal number to you and both of you equally numbered with Magistrates and both of you equally principled for Persecution and both equally calling out for the Magistrates Sword what clashing of swords would there be What edge against edge what authority against authority what power against power What bloody doings what sad workings what confusion would there be This is an Image of your Incorporation of your two powers that you so plead for in this kinde If we were equally principled and armed for Persecution as you are and acted by your spirit Ah what a Kingdome would here be You say Some have aversnesse to Heresy in a true zeale to God These are but generall notions of Heresy Every thing is not Heresie that is called so And for true zeal to God in that aversenesse all this is granted if that be Heresie indeed But how if it be such a zeale as Paul saith the Iewes had a zeale but not according to knowledge how if it be such a zeale to God as crucified the Sonne of God and such a zeal there hath been we know The Iewes did much in zeale to Truth even against Truth But you close up with that of the Lords and Commons in an Ordinance c. I am afraide these are such proofes as you intend most in your Presbytery to make your supplement to Scripture from Authority and so to make us beleeve what you cannot perswade us to beleeve and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture But I hope that honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us then from their Authority But I have not to do here with answering Ordinances of Parliament I contend not but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs but yours I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties but Iudges in our difference I appeal to the Parliament as to Caesar nor in it a fair proof of Truth to draw the Magistrates Sword out of the Scabbard You say You wonder considering who was engaged I would so undervalue them to compare them with Papists and Prelates I did consider who was engaged a Parliament c. and had I not highly valuâ—d them I had not ventured so far in my Quaere I considered the sad and fatal troubles which attended the Magistrates engagements with the Ministers the blood which hath been poured out by National compulsion of tender Consciences and like a Spiritual Watchman I could not but blow my Trumpet and give warning And for my comparison of Papists and Prelates I appeal to the world if there be any reproach whether it be not in the Interpreter rather then in the Author But I know no such thing by my Paper And if it be lawfull to draw in consequent conclusions and then father them I could prove you to speake Treason Blasphemy Idolatry Atheisme Heresie nay Independency which some of your Way think worse Anabaptisme Separation which would seeme to be as hatefull to you But I judge you not in any such sort nor had I spoken so far now but in a just Vindication You say You will conclude with my Politicks and upon such Principles as mine Church-govenment is ordained I have told you my Politicks were
though Presbytery be but a very Church-gathering and founded on a Principle of seperation yet do they not disapprove and condemn separation and semi or half-separation and Church-gathering for Schism c when their own power is a Schism respectively to the Parishes that are distinct and whatever distinction is formed to make them appear as part of their Congregations yet is it indeed so Is not their whole power defended to be entirely essentially dispensatively in the Presbytery called by themselves the Church and by the very authority of one whom I name with reverence to his learning and moderation Master Herle So as I wonder why there should be such envyings rayilngs accusings dissentings betwixt us that are beleevers though of severall wayes when as each is principled founded administred upon the same ground and way of Schism separation and Church-gathering nay the Presbytery hath more Schism and separation in it then the rest by how much it is constituted from the people and Brethren and acts in its ministration apart too viz. over the people rather then with them None to be forced under Christs Kingdome as in the Kingdoms of the world IN a Spirituall Government the ignorance of people which some would have for expedition that they may practically know it is no Scripture way of knowing in practicall godlinesse things must be knowne before practically known and practice is to begin from faith and faith from knowledge else the obedience can be but blind mixt and Popish Indeed in things civill or morall practice may bring in knowledge habits may be acquired and gotten by acts a man may grow temperate by practising temperance and civilly obedient by practising civill obedience but it is not so in spirituals there habits go before acts spirituall infusions before practices Indeed the Lawes of States and Kingdomes and Civill Policy teach men best by ruling them practically but it is not so in the Church men are not to be forced into Christs Kingdome as into the Kingdomes of the world the Kings of the Nations exercise their Dominion it shall not be so among you The power of a formall Reformation in a Government makes it not Christs Government A Government though not purely Christs may be made up of such Scripture and prudentiall materials as may much reform the outward man even as a meer prudentiall Civill-government may do if severely executed The Romanes by how much they excelled other Nations in Laws so much the more they excelled them in a people reformed moralized â—nd civilized in many Civill States meerly from their wholesome Policy and administration excellent and pretious flowers spring up many morall vertues as prudence temperance obedience meeknesse love justice fortitude Yet all this makes not a Government to be Christs but only that which is meerly the Discipline of Christ and Policy of Christ Prelacy in its Primitive time did reforme the beast like a lamb which compelled the Nations to Worship and made even fire to come down from Heaven or was religious in the eyes of men and did miracles yet was no true nor heavenly Power neither There are certain parts and degrees of Reformation common and communicable with the Government of Christ other Governments but then there is a form and Image of Christ in it which no others have and some certain spirituall operations and workings which exceed the power of all other Governments and this makes the difference and puts on the essentiall true and individuall form upon it so as in choice of Governments they are not to be chosen by some Summer-fruit in the outward man but by the Word and Spirit The visible Church or Communion is the Image of the invisible or mysticall THe invisible or mysticall Church is made up of pure living stones all is spirituall and yet all not spirituall in the like kinde nor degree Iesus Christ the corner stone is both God and man and some of his differ in glory as one Star differs from another and as it is here in this spirituall invisible glorious building so it is in the outward visible Communion below or building here which is the Image of that above The Temple here is according to the Patern there and as that is of true reall essentially spirituall living stones so the Church here is to consist of such as visibly formally and outwardly appear so and therfore called Saints and golden Candlesticks and holy Nation c. and though all the materials in this building are to be proportionable pure to make up a representative of the Church above yet all is not of one square and measure and polishing some are greater and some lesse some Babes and children in Christ some smoaking Flax and bruised Reeds and as this Church bears the Image of the heavenly so the materiall one bore the Image of this there was pure stones gold and Cedar so as there is roome in the Church now for any small stone or the lest peece of timber if it be but lively or squared if Cedar or firr How Christ is a King of the Nations and of the Church and how an Head Christ is a King to the Nations and to the Church nor doth he rule the Nations as the Church nor the Church as the Nations he rules ministerially in his Church and monarchically in the Nations he rules with a golden Scepter in his Church with an Iron Rod in the Nations nor doth Christ rule as the Kings of the Nations who finding people rude barbarous uncivill subdue them into obedience and civility but so doth not Christ in his Church that we know on the dispensation of his Word not of the Government first subdues And it is true Christ is an Head but not an Head to every body he will have a body proportionable to his Head both here and hereafter in earth as well as in heaven he is a pure holy glorious Head in his Gospel dispensation and well have a body suteable pure Not onely is the visible body of Christ thus pure but every truth of Christ bears the Image of Christ every truth of his hath something of himselfe in it who is Truth it selfe I am the Truth saith Christ every beam of light is light every truth is a sparkle of truth it self Thus we may judge of truth by what of Christ we see in it They who break a Crystall may see their face in every peece and parcell so in every thing of Christ there is an Image of Christ either of his purity or holinesse or love or humility or meeknesse c. The Presbyteriall Government and the Worlds of the same equall Dominion WHat kinde of Church-government is that which will set up it selfe with the Civill and State-government even co-ordinate with it if not to the ruling and tutoring of it which hath as large a Dominion as the other which is as full as ample as high and as supream which no lesse territory then a Kingdome will serve then a whole Nation