that was against vs and spoyling powers and principalities he made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe Yee died and were buried with Christ who fastned the handwriting of ordinances to the Crosse that he might abolish it from hauing any right to tie or yoke his members Yee likewise were quickned and raised together with Christ who rising spoyled powers and principalities and triumphed ouer them in his own Person that he alone might be Lord of quicke and dead of Men and Angels so that these words spoyling powers and Principalities and triumphing ouer them are not referred to the Crosse for any thing that appeareth in the Text but to Christs Resurrection and take their truth and force from his subiecting all power in heauen and earth vnder him by his rising againe from the dead This triumph ouer Satan and all his kingdome the same Apostle to the Ephesians setteth downe as a consequent to Christs death and pertinent to his Resurrection Ascending on high he led Captiuitie Captiue and this he ascended what meaneth it but that he descended first into the lower parts of the earth So that ascending from the lower parts of the earth he led Captiuitie Captiue which is all one with he triumphed ouer powers and Principalities The Syriack translation of the New Testament together with the ancientest of the Latine Fathers doth not only so interpret the place but it doth expresse so much in the verie text that Christ had this conquest after his death The Syriack translation sayth By the dispoiling or putting off his bodie Christ made â⦠shew of principalitics and powers and confounded them openly backnumch in his owne person For kenumah whence backnumch is framed in that tongue properly signifieth a Person The translations which the eldest Fathers of the Latine church either made or followed contained as much Apostolus de Christo refers vt exutus carnem potestates dehonestauit palam triumphatis illis in semetipso The Apostle reporteth of Christ sayth Nouatian how putting off his flesh he disgraced powers openly triumphing ouer them in his owne person Neither doth he idlely propose him putting off his flesh but because hee would haue him conceiued in his resurrection to put it on againe Hilarie sometimes translated it Exutus carne and sometimes Spolians se carne Principatus potestates tradux it cum fiducia triumphans cos in semetipso Christ putting off or stripping himselfe of flesh led powers and principalities captiues with boldnesse triumphing ouer them in his on ne person Both which he repeateth in his ninth booke shewing how they may stand together and adding Spoliata enim caro Christus est mortuus The flesh put off was Christ now dead So Ambrose alleageth this place Carnem se exuit Christ put of his flesh And Pacianus Exuens se carnem traduxit potestates libere triumphans eas in semetipso Christ putting off his flesh carried powers as Captiues freely triumphing ouer them in his owne person S. Austen often citeth the same place interpreting the word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as the rest doe Exuens se carnem or carne and thereby noting Christes laying aside of mortalitie Apostolus dicit exuens se carnem principatus potestates exemplauit fiducialiter triumphans eos in semetipso The Apostle sayth Christ putting off flesh made an example of principalities and powers and confidently triumphed ouer them in his owne person Where he sayth Christ douested himselfe of flesh by flesh in this place we vnderstand the mortalitie of flesh for which the bodie is properly called flesh Zanchius a learned and aduised Reader and weigher of antiquitie not onely followeth this exposition himselfe saying Resurgendo de inferis triumphauit principatusque potestates expoliat as in triumphum captiuas abduxit vt est ad Coloss. 2. By rising from the lower parts Christ triumphed and spoiled principalities and powers carying them captiue in maner of a triumph as is in the second to the Colossians but he also giueth his testimony of it Therefore nothing hindereth but what Paul here writeth we may interpret as the words doe sound of a reall triumph of Christes soule seuered from his bodie in the sight of God onely and of the blessed spirits specially since the Fathers for the most part do so expound it and of our writers not a few nor the meanest Bethinke your selfe now how wide you range from the Apostles meaning by the exposition of so many learned and ancient writers Christ rose Conquerer of death and hell Ergo say you the diuels tormented Christes soule before he died with the very paines of the damned If any man be so patient to like this Logicke and not to laugh at it I much maruell seeing the Conclusion so meere a stranger to the Antecedent which hath no coherence with it But some you will say expound it of the Crosse. That is more repugnant to your purpose than the former for if not only after but euen on the Crosse Christ had that apparent and glorious triumph ouer Satan and all his power which the Apostle speaketh of then was Satan farre from tormenting Christes soule with the paines of hell as you imagine There was a conflict you thinke before the conquest A conflict argueth a resistance for the time but no preualence There was a battell in heauen sayth S. Iohn Michael and his Angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought and his Angels but they preuailed not And the great dragon called the Diuell and Satan was cast out into the earth Shall we say that the dragon and his angels euen the Diuell and his assistants preuailed against Christ because they resisted and encountered him If this please you not take the Similitude which our Sauiour himselfe vseth of his owne doings towards the Diuell When a strong man armed keepeth his house the things that he possesseth are in peace but when a stronger then he entreth vpon him and ouer commeth him he taketh away all his armour wherein he trusted and diuideth his spoiles And no man can enter into a strong mans house and take away his goods except he first binde that strong man and then spoile his house If Christ then did enter on Satan and binde him and disarme him and so spoile him that he might make an open shew of him and of all his power what necessitie is there that Christ being the stronger should be endangered or oppressed by Satan farther then hee himselfe would The conquest was bloudie for so much as in ouercomming Satan Christ lost his life He lost it not he layed it downe to put the diuell to greater confusion for when he was not onely weake and wounded vnto death but past all helpe and hope as Satan in his pride presumed then Christ raised himselfe from the dead and ouerthrew the whole kingdome and strength of Satan spoiling him of all his
place which thinketh that Paul led with a feruent This exposition may not simply be receiued loue and zeale to haue the Iewes partakers of Christ did not remember or respect either the Counsell or Iustice of God to be immutable which yet are but brake forth into a vehement affection as desiring to exchange his eternall damnation for their Saluation These leaue out all manner of Conditions not because there were not many and must be many before the wish can be religious and pleasing to God but for that the Apostle wholy defixed on his care for the Iewes did not in that Passion consider the rest But by their leaues that are the leaders to this exposition well this may be conceaued of some short and suddaine motion rising from mans infirmitie but this can neuer be imagined of the Apostle aduisedly and iudicially writing to the Romans and weighing all his words with the wisedome of Gods spirit which if they take from the Apostle in that part of this Epistle where he calleth Christ and the holy Ghost to witnesse that he speaketh the truth I see not why they may not derogate all Authoritie from the rest of his writings when after so great deliberation and vehement protestation they make him forget the chiefest grounds of Christian Religion earnestly vrged by himselfe in the selfe same Epistle and euen in the next wordes before written in the later ende of the eight Chapter It is therefore a dangerous position to say the Apostle was amazed or astonished in his writings or so caried away with his affections that he knew not what he wrote in those Scriptures which are Canonicall For it openeth a gap to all impieties and heresies to thinke that Paul led with Christs spirit did not remember nor respect that Gods eternall election could not be changed nor the chosen vessels of Christ be euerlastingly condemned for the loue and zeale which they bare to Christ nor any man or Angell admitted to be the Redeemer and deliuerer of the Reprobate from the iust and deserued wrath of God prouided for them All which pestilent errors are consequent to this supposition that the Apostles speech was absolutely without condition and must be graunted to be possible before his desire or wish could simply take place It is therefore resolued euen by them who first deuised this exposition that Pauls wish in this place was wholy impossible as well in respect of God who would not change his eternall counsels and decrees as of the Apostle who being a chosen vessell could not perish and likewise of the Iewes whose deserued destruction so often denounced by our Sauiour as where he said h Matth. 21. The kingdome of God shall be taken from you and to Ierusalem i Luke 19. They shall not leaue in thee a stone vpon a stone because thou knewest not the day of thy visitation and many such threats could not be auerted Only this Defender to shew his discretion out of these darke places which admit many senses collecteth that to be possible which by the verdict of the holy Scriptures and of all Interpreters new and old is auouched to be simply impossible and thence he maketh his notable obseruations which indeede are nothing else but grosse and palpable errors k Defenc. pag. 96. li. 25. From thence I obserue foure notable points First That if God omnipotent and onely soueraigne Lord will he may inflict damnation and the paines of hell vpon meere men not for themselues but for others nor for their owne sinnes but for the imputed sinnes of other men much rather then might he doe this to Christ whom God sent indeede and ordained for that purpose Flatly contrarie to your Assertion To make your Obseruation Note the nearer to the patterne which you follow you must say that God if he will may inflict eternall damnation for temporall damnation to hell the Scripture knoweth none on his elect so were Moses and Paul for their loue to Christ and their Foure notable errors falsely grounded on the facts of Moses Paul whereof ãâã the first bretheren for that was the cause of their wish And then you haue made a worthy Corollarie that indeede contrarieth my Assertion and not mine onely but also the expresse words of the holy Ghost the maine grounds of the Christian Faith and the resolution of all writers first and last that haue spoken of these places To Moses Petition Gods answere was that he would not wipe an Innocent out of his booke but l Exod. 32. verse 33. Whosoeuer hath sinned against me said God I will put him out of my booke So that God himselfe did not onely refuse Moses Prayer in that part but declared it to be repugnant to his Iustice to condemne the guiltlesse with the guiltie The Apostle the next words before these by which you would make it possible that he might perish for others professed that m Rom. 8. v. 38. neither death nor life nor Angels nor things present nor things to come nor heigth nor deapth nor any other creature was able to separate him from the loue of God in Christ. And therefore generally demandeth n Ibid. v. 35. Who shall separate vs from the loue of Christ No creature is able as he exactly auoucheth and as for the Creator o Verse 33. It is God that iustifieth and therefore cannot be contrarie to himselfe p Verse 34. who shall condemne where God in Christ doth acquite God you thinke may change his mind His eternall counsell decreed reuealed and assured in Christ God neither will correct because he is wise and before all worlds foresaw all that might mooue him to the contrarie neither can alter because he is truth and so can neither repent nor change as men doe The q Rom. 11. Gifts and calling of God are without repentance r 2. Tim. 2. The foundation of God standeth sure and hath this seale the Lord knoweth who are his s Iames. 1. With him is no varying nor turning And therefore our Sauiour excepteth it as a thing not possible that the elect should perish when he saith that false Prophets and great wonders in the later daies should deceaue t Matth. 24. If that were possible the very Elect. By his power you will say God may doe it though he will not Gods power was most absolute ouer all creatures to dispose them at his pleasure before he determined and setled his will in Christ Iesus what to doe with them since which the holy Ghost teacheth vs in plaine words it is impossible that God should lie hauing made his promise to all his elect in Christ and bound it with an Othe not because he is become weaker then he was but because he hath fastned his counsell and reuealed his truth in his Sonne which he neither will nor can change not for want of power but because of his truth which is constant and immutable u Heb. 6.
of these words professing to cite the text you say But still he was in his agonie And as for the words he prayed more earnestly which are The ãâã corrupteth S. ââ¦uke immediate before Christes sweating bloud you shutte them cleane out as not fitting your turne lest the Reader should thinke his vehement prayer after comfort receiued was the cause of this agonie for that the Euangelist placeth it next before in the text Your wordes then hee was in his agonie are no good translation and that which is added but still he was in his agonie is a violent corruption for genómenos there doeth not signifie his being or continuing that which he was before but his becomming that which he was not before For example z Gal. 4. v. 4. God sent his Sonne genómenon made of a woman and genómenon made vnder the law Doth the word genómenos heere signifie that Christ was man before he was conceiued of his mother or rather that he was made of his mother which before he was not and so made vnder the law doth not import that Christ was subiect to the law before he was man but that being altogether free from the law he would become subiect to the law which before he was not Likewise a Ioh. 1. v. 14. ho logos sarx egeneto the word was made flesh which before it was not This difference of the word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã from ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the Greeke Scholiast obserueth commenting vpon S. Pauls words I could wish to be separated from Christ for my brethren b Photius apud ãâã in ãâã 9. Epist. aâ⦠ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Paul doth not say he could be content to become a curse which is NOVV PRESENTLY to be seuered from Christ but to be or haue beene a curse that is to haue yet continued seuered from Christ. So that ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to be mââ¦de or to become is ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã from the present time and ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to be is still to continue Wherefore genómââ¦nos enagonia is falling at that present vpon comfort receiued by the Angell into an agonie and not as you corruptly translate still he was in his agonie An agonie you will say you vse for all Christes affections and actions in the garden But so doth not S. Luke he referreth the word to Christes more ardent prayers and to his bloudie sweat If we speake abusiuely an agonie may be taken for feare as I haue formerly shewed or if defectiuely we name one part for the whole which How some vse the word Agonie some men vse to auoid length of speech and the number of particulars then Christs agonie may stand to note all his affections actions and supplications in the garden but if we speake properly as there is no cause nor proofe S. Luke should heere do otherwise then Christes agonie both by the proprietie of the Greeke word and by the circumstances of the text was that vehement contention of minde wherewith Christ prayed ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã more feruently than before being now strengthened or comforted by the Angels appearing and message and euen powred forth his spirit to God with so zealous affection that his sweat was like bloud This you would crosse by your corrupt translation in saying BVT STILL he was in his agonie though the words of the Euangelist doe not import that he continued still any former agonie but vpon the strength and comfort receiued by the Angell he fell into an agonie of most vehement desire to preuaile in the worke of our redemption and to remooue all impediments for which he vsed so strong cries and teares that his sweat was coloured like bloud All these things you venture to determine by your owne authoritie as if the Scriptures were vnder your command and little thinke that wise and godly Readers will censure your licentious intrusion on the Scriptures as it deserueth Neither can you cease for ought that I see for as you affirme that which our Sauiour assumed vpon the Angels message to haue possessed him before at his entrance into the garden so the words which he spake before any prayer in the garden and much more before the appearing of the Angel you make consequent to his bloudie sweat Your handsome and holie translation and exposition is c Defenc. pag. 107. li 3. but still hee was in his agonie and sweat like droppes of bloud trickling to the ground and presently sayth My soule is full of sorrowes to death Where you commit two notable falsifications euen of the Scripture it selfe The Dââ¦fender addeth to Saint Luke that which he neuer wrote and leaueth out that which he wrote For first these words My soule is full of sorrowes euen to death are not in S. Lukes Gospell whence you would seeme to cite them as presently sayd after Christes bloudie sweat Next you peruert both the other Euangelists in which these words are written for both Matthew and Marke which witnesse the speaking of those words precisely record that they were spoken to Christes three Disciples before he departed at first from them to pray in secret and before he began to expresse any desire that the cuppe might passe from him Reade the texts they keepe almost the same wordes When Christ had sayd to the rest of his Disciples d Mar. 14. v. 32 Sit you here till I haue prayed e 33. he tooke Peter and Iames and Iohn and he began to be afrayd and in great heauinesse f 34. and sayd vnto them My soule is very heauy vnto death tary here and watch g 35. So he went forward a little and fell downe on the ground and prayed that if it were possible that houre might passe from him You turne all vpside downward and tell vs out of S. Luke that still Christ was in his agonie and sweat like droppes of bloud and presently sayth My soule is full of sorrowes euen to death With such additions translations and corruptions against the circumstances described in the Scriptures some doubt may chance to creepe at a creuie into some mens consciences touching the cause of Christes agonie but your pains of the damned are not one iot the neerer for all your inuerting peruerting the Euangelists words to your will For what if Christ did sweat bloud at first which the Gospell referreth to the last doth that giue entrance to the second death and torments of the damned Are not the paines of this life able to make men sweat bloud but you must runne to hell for the lake that burneth there with fire and brimstone before mans body may colour his sweat with the shew of bloud Is it harder for Christ to resolue his bloud into sweat by zeale without paines or with bodilie paines whiles he was liuing than when he was dead to send out of his side first h Ioh. 13 v. 34. bloud and then water so distinctly and miraculously
departed from the bodie it rested not idle but descended ad inferos vnto hell And surely the one and the other societic both of godly soules and of the damned found the presence of Christes soule For the soules of the faithfull were cheered with great comfort and gaue God thanks sor deliuering them by the hand of this Mediatour and performing that which so long before he had promised Other soules also adiudged to euerlasting damnation animae Christi aduentum persenserunt perceiued the comming of Christes soule Zanchius shewing the different interpretations of those words of the Apostle Christ spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe that is in his owne person sayth Other Interpreters hold that these enemies were vââ¦nquished and conquered on the crosse by Christ but the triumph was pââ¦rformed when Christ in his soule entred the kingdome of Hell as a glorious victorer For so they interpret the Article He descended into Hell And because the word deigmatizein doth signifie to carie one in an open shew as the Romans were woont in the eyes of men to leade their enemies once ouerthrowen with their hanââ¦s bound behinde them to their perpetuall shame and the soule of Christ separated from his bodie might really doe this to the diuels bringing them out of their infernall kingdome and carying them along the aire in the sight of all the Angels and blessed soules therefore nothing hindereth vs to interpret that which Paul heere writeth as the words sound euen of a reall triumph ouer the diuels in the sight of God onlie and of the blessed spirits specially since the Fathers for the most part so expound them ex nostris non pauci neque vulgares and of our Expositors not a few and those no meane men Aretius in his Problemes purposely treating of Christes descent to hell first alleageth that Tota Ecclesia vbique terrarum hodie illum Articulum agnoscit diuer sum à sepultura recitat the whole Church throughout the world at this date acknowledgeth that article and reciteth it as different from Christs buriall And to that obiection that some Creeds had not this clause he answereth The Church finding the descent of Christ to hell to be plainly deliuered in the Scriptures with great aduise admitted this Article into the Creed Otherwise how could it be that with so full consent of all nations and all tongues this clause should be so constantly and so consentingly receaued Repeating therefore many other senses he refuseth them euery one and concludeth Quare mea est sententia Christum descendisse ad inferos postquam tradidisset spiritum in manus Dei patris in cruce c. Wherfore mine opinion is that Christ descended into hell after he yeelded his soule on the Crosse to the hands of God his Father And hell in this question we put to be a certaine place appointed for the damned euen for Satan and his members To the words of Christ vttered to the thiefe this daie shalt thou be with me in Paradise I answere they hinder not this cause For Christ was in Paradise with the thiefe according to his diuinity in the graue according to his body in hell according to his soule Howbeit there is no certaintie how long Christ staied in hell not long it seemeth so that he might in soule that verie day returne from hell and after a glorious sort enter Paradise with the thiefe Neither hath that any more strength that Christ commended his soule into his Fathers handes For the soule of Christ was still in his Fathers hands though he descended into hell This descent was voide of forrow and shame to Christ. Where they say there was no need of this descent they run backe to the beginning for how should it be needlesse which the Scripture pronounceth Christ did and we confesse in our Creed We iudge it therefore needfull first for the reprobate that they might know he was now come of whose comming they had so often heard but neglected it with great contempt Againe Satan was perfectly to know that this Christ whom he had tempted in the desart and deliuered to death by the fraud of the Iewes was the very Messias and the seed promised to the woman Hoc inquam expediebat etiam Demonibus in imo Tartaro innotescere This I say was expedient euen for the diuels in the deepe of hell to know Thirdly it was expedient for the elect that Satan might see he should haue no right no not on their bodies since Christ heereafter would raise them to life Hemmingius As Christ by his death conflicted with the enemy on the gibbet of the crosse and ouercame him so by his glorious descent to hell resurrection and ascension to heauen he executed the triumph erecting as a monument of his victorie the ensigne of his crosse Mollerus writing on the 16. Psalme Touching Christes descent to hell We saith he vnderstand that Article of our faith in the Creede simply and without allegorie and beleeue that Christ truely descended to the lower parts of the earth as Paul speaketh Ephes. 4. It is enough for vs to beleeue which Austen affirmeth in his Epistle to Dardanus Christ thereforâ⦠descended that he might helpe those which were to be holpen For Christ by his death destroied the powers of hell and the tyrannie of the diuell as is said Osee 13. O death I will be thy death and thy destruction O hell And this his victory he would in a certaine maner shew vnto the diuell that he might strike perpetuall terrors into the diuell and take from vs all feare of Satans tyrannie Let it suffice vs to know this and omit curious questions and disputations heereabouts Pomeranus on these words of the 16. Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell Heere hast thou saith he that Article of our faith Christ descended into hell If thou aske what he did there I answer He then deliuered not the Fathers onely but all the faithfull from the beginning of the world to the end thereof not out of Lymbus but out of the lowest nether most hell to which we all were condemned and in which we all were as in death by the sentence of God There euerlasting fire did abide to vs all that being deliuered to death by the sinne of Adam we might in the last iudgement be deliuered to punishment and perpetuall sire Christ therefore descended euen thither vnto death and hell to this end least thou shouldest dââ¦scend thither that as he had redeemed vs from death so he might deliuer vs from hell Westmerus in his expositions of the Psalmes followeth worde for word the confession of Pomerane Wolfgangus Musculus Christ therefore was to die not that he should simply be dead but that by his death he might conquer death and ouercome him that had the rule ouer death and so he was to descend to hell
the perfection of their celestiall glory Otherwise against you and all that out of this place surmise that iust mens soules shall not be deliuered out of Sheol till the resurrection the sense and words of Dauid in this are pregnant enough For Dauid putting a difference in thââ¦se two verses betwixt himselfe and the wicked and that with an aduersatiue coniunction since the soules of the wicked are in Sheol presently vpon their deaths if Dauids must be there also what distinction doe his wordes make betweene himselfe and those others of whom he spake before Againe he saith God will deliuer his soule from Sheol ki cúm or quia when he shall receiue me or because he will receiue me Take which you will it is plaine by the Scriptures and by these very words of Dauid that so soonâ⦠as God receiueth the soule of man it is deliuered from Sheol But hee receiueth the soules of his Saints instantly vpon their deaths they are therefore presently deliuered out of Sheol and stay not there by any force of Dauids wordes vntill the resurrection Lord Iesus sayd Steuen euen as he was stoned receiue my spirit The begger died saith the Gospell and was caried by the Angels into Abrahams bosome This day shalt thou be with mee in Paradise said Christ to the theefe He that beleeueth in him that sent me saith Christ ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã is already passed from death to life If the faithfull passe so soone to life they bee as soone deliuered from Sheol by Dauids owne confession against which I will heare neither you nor any man liuing Againe that Psalme sheweth it also where it is thus written My soule is filled with sorrowes and my liââ¦e draweth neere to Sheol by his life he meaneth his soule the proper cause and fountaine of life in him which also in ââ¦e first part of the sentence hee nameth By these rouing and licentious glozes builded on the sands of your owne saying you thinke you may prooue what you will and all shall be expresse Scripture if you say the word Life you will haue to be soule drawing neere to be abiding in The graue to be the generall condition of soules deceased and to warrant all this your selfe is the soothsayer By his life he meaneth his soule which also in the first part of the sentence hee nameth as the manner of phrase in the Psalme is in the second part to speake of the same things that are in the former Many verses in the Psalmes doe illustrate the selfe same generall with diuers parts adiuncts and consequents but that the words be of all one force or signification in euery such verse this is an other of your new found methodes which is nothing else but a meere confusion of all things For will you see with your manner of phrase as you finââ¦ly furbish it what consequents hang on these kind of collections This life of which Dauid speaketh continueth not in Sheol because it is vtterly exstinguished by Sheol ergo the soule likewise is mortall and wholy perisheth in Sheol for so doth the life mentioned by Dauid which you say is all one with the soule Againe if both these parts import one sense then the iust in Sheol are filled with sorrowes for so are the former wordes of Dauid And if that be true how much hath the spirit of God deceiued vs who bad S. Iohn write blessed are the dead which hereafter die in the Lord euen so saith the spirit for they rest from their labours But that was the spirit of trueth and therefore the spirit of error in you sucketh these absurdities out of the Psalmes by your misconstruction of them Indeede I denie not but life may signifie heere the whole person of man and so may nephesh the soule also very well and then Sheol and Hades signifie not peculiarly and distinctly the graue which is only for the car casse but the condition of the whole man after he hath no being in this world And per aduenture so it is vnderstood heere in thââ¦se places in which sense Sheol and Hades are farre from signifying hell yea or heauen either yea or onely and meerely the graue but it signisieth destruction out of this world and not being heere any more as aforetime to the whole person that is both to the bodie and to the soule The idle deuices of this wild-gooseracer who would spend either time or paines to tracke when he reeleth to and fro like a man pot-shotten with it may be and per aduenture it is so and closeth vp all in the end with a dangerous destruction which he maketh to be iust nothing Boyes meanely Catechised can soone conceiue that death or the graue bringeth with it an end of all earthly things from which the wicked are loth to depart as hauing no farder nor better hope after this life and therefore to them death is a destruction indeed that is a ceasing of all their pleasures and an encreasing of all their paines To the godly who put not their hearts to the things of this world but desire to bee dissolued and to bee with Christ and in comparison of his presence account all earthly things to be base and burdenous death is a gaine and no destruction because they renounced the loue of all these worldly thinges before hand and sought for the permanent citie whose founder is God Wherefore to them this bodie is a burden this life is a warefare and this world is a desert full of snares and pits Wherein they wander as pilgrimes and strangers If then to lay aside these troubles and trifles and to be freed from all labours and dangers and to come home to the countrcy and citie which God hath prouided for the faithfull be in any wise mans sense a destruction then haue you some reason to call the generall condition of death as well to the iust as to the wicked a destruction but if that thought and speech be void of all religion and reason then doe you houer in the midst betweene heauen and hell and huddle saluation and damnation in one generall condition or state as you call it and when you sce what inconuenience will follow thereof you make it nothing but a meere priuation or an end of things past And this you would applie as well to the person of Christ whose soule you say was in no Sheol but this as to al his members whose soules shall not be freed from this destruction and Sheol till the day of resurrection Did you speake of the nature of death in it selfe or as it taketh hold on the wicked I would allow the word destruction which if it be well vnderstood is more then a mââ¦re priuation but when you presume to peruert the Scriptures with peraduentures and to sow to them what sense you list as may best fit your monstrous fancies lââ¦t no man be offended if I often thinke it fit to reiect your
to fast then to marrie Now for these very points that none are in Paradise but only martvrs and that the soules euen of the Patriarks and Prophets and all other godlie Christians are apud inferos in places vnder the earth and so shal be till the fulnesse of the resurrection Tertullian vrgeth in his booke De anima and in this chapter the authority of his paraclet which was the founder of Montanus new prophesies Agnosce differentiam Ethnici fidelis in morte si pro Deo occumbas vt pââ¦racletus moââ¦et non in mollibus febribus in lectulis sed in an Acknowledge the difference of an Ethnicke and a beleeuer euen in their deaths if thou die for Gods cause as the Paraclet warneth not in casie agues and soft beddes but in Martyrdomes And that these were the very words of Montanus new prophesie may easily be perceaued by Tertullian himselfe who writing against all flight in persecution which booke was specially written against the Church by Ieroms owne confession citeth them as the words of the spirit to witte in the new prophesies of Montanus Spiritum si consulas c omnes pene ad martyriuns exhortatur non ad fugam vt illius commemââ¦ur publicaris inquit ââ¦onum libi est Qui enim non publicatur in hominibus publicatur in Domino Sic aââ¦bi Nolite in lectulis febribus mââ¦llibus optare exire sed in Martyrijs If thou take counsell of the spirit he exhorteth all very neere to Martyrdome not to flight as to remember you of that speach Art thou made a publike example saith he it is good for thee He that is not made a publike ââ¦xample amgoÌst men shal be made one with God And so in another place desire not to depart this life in beds easie agues but in Martyrdomes These words Tertullian alleageth as euidently written by the spirit which since they be no where found in any part of the new or old Testament disagree both in words matter from the stile truth of the sacred Scriptures they sauour of another spirit must of force be referred to the prophesies of Montanus who in this very point was condemned by the church of Christ against which as Ierom auoucheth Tertuilian wrote this book in fauor of Montanus heresie And so much also that learned obseruer Rhenanus affirmeth vpon this place Verba sunt Prophetiae Paracleti Montanici These are the words of the prophesie of Montanus spirit Your friends therefore who lent you their paines were not well aduised in excusing Tertullian in this matter from Montanisme since not onely the error of Montanus is heere defended but the verie words of his new reuelation are heere alleadged Also in that obiection of certaine Heretickes whom he confuteth not the true Christians as you misconceaue They argued thus as you doe In hoc Christus inferos adijt ne nos adiremus Christ therefore went to hell to the end we should neuer come there He answereth them that it is false that Christ went to inferos in that sense that is to hell For then what difference is there between the wicked heathen and the godly Christians if one and the same prison after death were for them both taking it for a thing generally graunted in the Church that it were a WICKED AND HERETICALL THING to thinke he went where the damned were that is into hell Ignorance maketh you not onely blind and bold but presumptuous and sawcie to acquite from heresie and condemne for heresie whom pleaseth you And therefore I must not thinke it strange to be chalenged by you for a wicked and hereticall opinion since you grosly belie the whole Church of Christ and dippe them in the same vate of wicked and heretical things with me You wilfully wrest and misconstrue Tertullians words smoothing him in a manifest error against the whole Church of Christ and roling them vp with wicked heresie that were the greatest lights of Christian religion next after the Apostles Tertullians resolutions in this very Chapter are plaine enough to him that is not more then blind Habes de Paradiso anobie libellum quo constituimus omnem animam apud inferos sequestrari in diem Domini Thou hast a book of ours written touching Paradise wherein we determine all soules to be kept sequestred apud inferos in infernall places till the day of the Lord. And in the sentence next before that which you cite he sayth with like confidence Habes regionem inferûm subterraneam credere illos cubito pellere qui satis superbè non putent animas fideliuÌ inferis dignas serui super DominuÌ Discipuli super MagistruÌ aspernati si forte in Abrahae sinu expectandae resurrectionis solatium carpere Thou hast to beleeue that the region of inferi is vnder the earth and to push them from their opinions who proudly enough will not thinke the soules of the faithfull to be fitte for infernall or Iower places seruants aboue their Lord and Scholers aboue their Masters in that they skorne perhaps to haue the comfort of expecting the resurrection in Abrahams bosome Heere Tertullian positiuely declareth that he taketh inferi for a place or Region vnder the earth and that such as thought not the soules of the faithfull fitte for that place till the resurrection did proudly presume to be aboue their Lord and Master and skorne Abrahams bosome where the rest of the Patriarks Prophets are kept as he dreameth and so shal be till the day of iudgement Now whose opinion I pray you was this that the soules of the faithfull after Christs resurrection went to Paradise and not to places vnder the earth was it not the maine confession of Christs Church Tertullian then purposely refuting that opinion what els doth he but traduce the generall persuasion of the faithfull in fauour of his new prophesie which reserued Paradise onely for Martyrs and in that respect abandoned all the soules of the godly dying in their beds to places vnder the earth there to be kept till Christes comming But examine the words which he reiecteth and see if they sauour of heresie or Christianity For thereby we shall best iudge whether they were Hereticks or Christians whom he there impugned His words are Sed in hoc inquiunt Christus inseros ãâã ne nos adiremus But to this ââ¦rd say they Christ went to inferi the places bââ¦low that we should not come thither If these wordes imply heresie then was Saint Austen a manifest hereticke for he affirmed as much in effect as this commeth vnto Ideo Christus peruenit vsâ⦠ad infernum ne nos maneremus in inferno Therefore Christ came euen vnto hell that we should not remaine in hell Men that come thither abide there If therefore Christ freed vs by his descent thither from remaining there he freed vs from comming thither And Ambrose was likewise an
nothing is superfluously repeated so nothing is obscurely couered in it And though this Article He descended to hell wanted for a time in some Churches euen as some part of Scripture did yet was it retained by all Christian Writers as a ground of true religion from the Apostles time and professed in some Churches very anciently in their Creed and at last generally receiued in all places All the Fathers of Christes Church with one consent teach this as a point of the Christian faith That Christ after death descended to hell insomuch that Austen resolutely sayth Who but an Infidell will denie that Christ was in hell Where Abrahams bosome was neither was nor is agreed amongst the learned only Austen rightly inferreth out of Christes words That being a place of comfort and farre off aboue Hades where the rich man was tormented with a great Gulfe setled betwixt those two places it could be no part nor member of hell The rest which are very many appeare by the seuerall Titles ouer ech Page or by the Table prouided to finde the same with more facilitie THE SVRVEY OF CHRISTES SVFFERINGS FOR MANS REDEMPTION IT may seeme somewhat strange to thee Christian Reader as it doth likewise to me that one and the selfe same cause being twice now debated and discussed in writing on either side we should at the last be farther from agreeing on the true state of the controuersie than we were at the first entring into the matter If the fault be either in the doubtfulnesse of my words proposing it or in the diuersnesse of my mind defending it I refuse no reproch of follie and inconstancie but if I keeping close to the points which I first propounded and calling vpon the aduerse part with as great vehemencie and importunitie as I could to goe directly to the issue and no way to digresse from the things in question the Impugner trusting more to the couert of his words than to the soundnesse of his proofs will of purpose shunne the marke prefixed and roue at pleasure with doubtfull and deceitfull termes to hide the nakednesse of his side and to make the Reader beleeue he hath matter of moment when indeed he doth not so much as vnderstand himselfe or take any knowledge of the chiefest things which I obiect or alledge then is he woorthie to beare the blame who best deserueth it and thou Christian Reader mayest soone perceiue and assoone pronounce both for thine owne ease and for an end to be had in this strife for to thee the Confuter referreth himselfe and so doe I whether of vs flieth the touchstone of trueth and faileth in the due proofe of his doctrine as neere as God shall giue thee wisdome to discerne light from darknesse and grace to preferre trueth before falshood In the Preface of my Sermons published I much misliked and openly charged the ouer hastie Discourser that called himselfe H. I. for cleane changing the state of the first Question and to the maine diuision of his Treatise where he sayth The whole controuersie hath in it two points the first That Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God c I replied in my conclusion It was too much boldnesse to outface the world in print that this was the position which I impugned There were too many witnesses there for me to denie or for him to belie the Question he knew it well enough but he could not tell how to proue that which I then reproued and therefore he shranke from it and dallied with generall and doubtfull termes And lest either the patient Reader or strict Examiner should be forced farre to seeke for the chiefe points by me denied or affirmed in those Sermons I purposely and plainly numbred and deliuered them in such sort as none could mistake them but he that would wilfully ouerleape them My words thou wilt pardon me to repeat good Christian Reader that thereby thou mayest see whether I alter or new frame my first questions and resolutions as this Prater pretendeth by his euery where complaining of my manifolde ambiguities fallacies and contrââ¦rieties or he rather dissembleth the weaknesse and couereth the badnesse of his cause vnder certeine perplexed and confused phrases as anon thou shalt heare more at large These are my words in the foresayd Preface I laboured in these my Sermons to prooue these foure points First That it was no where recorded in holy Scriptures nor iustly to be concluded by the Scriptures that Christ suffered the true paines of Hell Secondly That as the Scriptures describe to vs the paines of the Damned and of hell there are manie terrors and torments which without euident impietie can not be ascribed to the Sonne of God Thirdly That the death and bloud of Christ Iesus were euidently frequently constantly set downe in the writings of the Apostles as the sufficient price of our Redemption and true meane of our Reconciliation to God and the verie same proposed in the figures resembled in the sacrifices of the Law and sealed with the Sacraments of the New testament as the verie ground-worke of our saluation by Christ and so haue beene receiued and beleeued in the Church of God foureteene hundred yeeres before any man euer made mention of hell-paines to be suffered in the soule of Christ. Lastly where the Scriptures are plaine and pregnant That Christ died for our sinnes and by his death destroyed him that had power of death euen the diuell and reconciled vs when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh through death besides That the Holie ghost in these places by expresse words nameth the bodily death of Christ as the meane of our Redemption Reconciliation to God no considerate Diuine might affirme or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soule for somuch as the death of the soule must exclude Christ from the grace spirit and life of God and leaue in him neither faith hope nor loue sanctitie nor innocencie which God forbid any Christian man should so much as dreame And if any man to mainteine his deuice would inuent a new hell and another death of the soule then either Scriptures or Fathers euer heard or spake of they should keepe their inuentions to themselues it sufficed me to beleeue what I read and consequently not to beleeue what I did not reade in the Word of God which is and ought to be the foundation of our faith Whether there be any darkenesse or doubling in my speech I leaue it to thy censure good Christian Reader I affirme touching our redemption and reconciliation to God what the Scriptures affirme and as neere as I could in the selfe-same words I denied the late additions of some men in matters of so great weight which the Scriptures by their perpetuall silence denie and by their open and euident consequents disprooue and impugne If any man thinke my Sermons in these points lesse euident or pertinent to the purpose than my Preface let him looke
had God chiefly respected the execution of his iustice against sinne his owne sonne was most vnfit to be subiected to that vengeance which was prepared for deuils but God in the recompense which he required for sinne chose rather to haue his holinesse contented and his glory aduanced than to haue his iustice inflicted to the vttermost And therefore he selected the person of his owne sonne that might fully satisfie his holinesse and maruellously exalt his glorie but on whom of all others his iustice could take least holde not that his iustice should be neglected but that a moderate punishment in his person for the worthinesse thereof would weigh more euen in the balance of Gods exact iustice than the depth of Gods wrath executed on all the transgressours The chastisement of our peace layd vpon him will proue the same For where the wages of sinne is death and death due to sinne is threefold spirituall corporall and eternall as I haue formerly shewed such was the person of our Sauiour that two parts of death due to sinne could by no rule of Gods iustice fasten on Christes humane nature The gifts of Gods spirit and grace could not be quenched nor diminished in him he was full of grace and trueth he had not the spirit by measure as we haue but of his fulnesse we all haue receiued It is my father saith he that honoureth me whom ye say to be your God yet haue ye not knowen him but I know him and if I should say I know him not I should be a liar like vnto you but I know him and keepe his word and do alwayes the things that please him The cleerenesse of trueth knowing Gods will and fulnesse of grace keeping his word beeing continually present with the humane soule of Christ most apparently the death of the soule which excludeth all inward sense and motion of Gods spirit could haue no place in him by reason the death of the soule is the want of all grace and height of all sinne from which he was free much lesse could any part of Christs manhood by Gods iustice be condemned to euerlasting death or to hell fire since there could nothing befall the humanitie of Christ which was vnfit for his Diuinitie they both being inseparably ioyned together or repugnant to that loue which God so often professed and proclamed from heauen or iniurious to the innocencie and obedience which God so highly accepted and rewarded or preiudiciall to mans saluation which God so long before purposed and promised No weight of sinne no heat of wrath no rigour of iustice could preuaile against the least of these to cast Christ out of heauen and combine him with diuels in the second death which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone There is onely left the third kinde of death which is corporall to which Christ yeelded himselfe willingly for the conseruation of Gods iustice who inflicted that paine on all men as the generall punishment of sinne for the demonstration of his power who by death ouercame death together with the cause and consequents thereof and for the consolation of the godly that they should not faint vnder the crosse nor feare what sinne and Satan could do against them It was loue then in God towards vs to giue his sonne for vs So God loued the world that he gaue his only begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting but farre greater loue to his sonne than to vs though the burden of our sinnes which we could not beare were layd vpon him For since God hath adopted vs through Christ Iesus vnto himselfe and made vs accepted in his beloued of force he must be much better beloued for whose sake we all are beloued And if to make the world by his sonne were an excellent demonstration of Gods euerlasting and exceeding loue towards his sonne to send him into the world that the world through him might be saued doth as farre in honour and loue exceed the former as our Redemption by which heauen is inherited doth passe our creation whereby the earth was first inhabited Neither was it possible that God should remit the rigor of iustice against sinne for the loue of any but onely of his owne sonne whom because he loued as deerely as himselfe and had made heire of all things worthily and rightly did the wrath of God against man asswage and yeeld to the loue of God towards his owne sonne against whom no punishment could proceed but such as was fatherly and serued rather to witnesse obedience than to execute vengeance For though you Sir Discourser in the height of your vnlearned skill resolue that Christ could suffer no chastisement but all his sufferings were the true and proper punishment or iust vengeance of God for sinne yet the Prophet Esay telleth vs the chastisment of our peace was vpon him and the word Musar which the Prophet there vseth deriued from Iasar is the proper word that in the Scripture signifieth the correction of a father towards his sonne and of God likewise towards his Church Chastise thy sonne saith Salomon while there is hope As a father chasteneth his sonne â so â the Lord chasteneth thee sayth Moses to Israel My Sonne refuse not the chastening of the Lord. Blessed is the man whom thou Lord doest chasten The like may be seene by those that will looke Deutr. 21. vers 18. Ierem. 2. vers 30. Ierem. 31. vers 18. Psal. 118. vers 18. The Apostle concurreth with the Prophet Esay touching Christes sufferings and sayth Though he were the sonne yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered He learned obedience which is the subiection of a sonne to his fathers chastisement he tasted not vengeance which is the indignation of an enemie requiting Yea the very death which Christ suffered in the body of his flesh was so farre from being an effect of Gods proper wrath that it was an increase of Gods loue towards him and as well the price of our Redemption as the cause of all his honor following Therefore the Father loueth me sayth our Sauiour because I lay downe my soule or life to take it againe And so much the Prophet foretolde Therefore will I giue him sayth God a part in many things and he shall diuide the spoile of or with the mightie because he poured out his soule or life vnto death Which the Apostle sheweth to be thus verified in Christ. He humbled himselfe being obedient vnto the death euen the death of the Crosse. Wherefore God also highly exalted him and gaue him a name aboue euery name that in the name of Iesu euery knee should bow of things celestiall terrestrial and infernall euery tongue confesse that Iesus Christ is the Lord to the glory of God the father All power honour and iudgement in heauen earth and hell are therefore deliuered
submission and patience of his Sonne on the Crosse. More then this if you will vrge on the person of Christ as needefull for our Redemption first proue it and then professe it at your pleasure otherwise if you boldly and vainely presume it your addle and idle wordes can not preiudice the setled and vndoubted principles of the Christian faith warranted by the word of God and fully receaued by the Church of Christ euen from the beginning To your maimed and ruinous foundation that Christ must suffer all and the very same punishment wages and vengeance of sinne which the damned doe suffer and we should haue suffered had we not beene excused by his suffering it for vs I haue plainly and sadly answered I know not how often it is a false and lewd imagination and so impious that your selfe dare not in your late Defence offer it to vew without many bridles to holde it from horrible blasphemie But Sir discourser why coyne you conclusions in christian Religion that must haue three or foure exceptions to saue them from open impietie and why see you not that your speciall reseruations ouerthrow the truth of your owne assertion for where the true and proper punishment wages and vengeance of sinne in all the wicked is spirituall corporall and eternall death in your limitations at last which you forgate at first you except Christ from spirituall death which is sinne and from eternall death which is damnation of body and soule to hell fier yet you still affirme that Christ suffered the full proper punishment wages and vengeance of sinne as though these two spirituall and eternall death were no parts of the punishment vengeance due to sin or these being excepted as vnfit for Christ to suffer you could truely say Christ suffered the full and proper punishment and vengeance of sinne which consisteth of these three kinds of death And who but you would send vs such headlesse and senselesse resolutions in Diuinitie as these are I affirme that Christ suffered all gods proper wrath and vengeance for sinne I say all that the very damned do suffer namely so described and limited as is aboue said And againe He suffered from Gods hand euen as the damned doe namely in these points which are both possible and reasonable Were you some new Euangelist or vpstart Apostle it were euen enough for you to referre Christs sufferings to your description and your limitation without any farther authority but when you take vpon you with your bare word to broch so many nouelties in Christian religion without one line or letter of holy writ to vpholde your dreames and deuices who can chuse but deride your follie You pinne mens faiths for the ground of their saluation to your descriptions and your limitations to possibilitie and reason measured by your rule without any text or title of Scripture to warrant your words and then you thinke the maine question is profoundly and fully handled but your sober and wise Reader will presently finde the lamenesse or leudnesse of your grand conclusion For if Christs person not only by your possibilitie and reason but by the soundnesse of trueth and sincerenesse of faith must be exempted from sinne which is the death of the soule and from damnation which is euerlasting death why write you so boldly that Christ must suffer all Gods proper wrath euen all that the damned do suffer whereas apparently those two being excepted Christ could suffer no kinde of death but only a corporall And if by your so describing and so limiting the matter you draw Christ within the staine or guilt of sinne or within the compasse or danger of damnation hope you to finde any Christian eares so patient that will endure that monstrous and sacrilegious indignitie But you will inuent a new hell for Christ which shall haue the substance but not the circumstance of damnation and shal be inflicted by Gods immediate hand properly ye a only in the verie soule of Christ which Gods owne infinite wrathfull power and iustice can inflict for satisfaction where and how it pleaseth him The question good Sir is not of Gods power what he can do but of his will reuealed in his Word and of his promise performed in the person of his sonne for our saluation and testified by the mouthes and pennes of the Prophets and Apostles that were guided by his holy spirit to speake and write the trueth I make no doubt but God can create another heauen another earth and another hell as quickly and as easily as he did these that now are yet if any man affirme that God will so do or hath so done I must holde him for an Infidell because he gainsayth Gods trueth and belieth Gods will by pretending Gods power Talke not therefore what God can doe shew rather by the word and witnesse of trueth what God hath done to that must we trust to that are you bound and from that are you slipt You haue not so much as any colour of Scripture for these desperate nouelties and vanities I will giue them no woorse words lest you complaine of my bitternesse and if any man be but so wise as to let your proue these things before he beleeue them he is safe enough for euer admitting them I may spare my paines in refuting them yet because destitute of all other helpe you appeale to possibilitie and reason to fourbish your new inuention of another hell let vs see how handsomely you hale it onward By the law of our creation as we are men hauing a soule besides our bodie so our soule hath in it a threefolde facultie of suffering paines First that which is proper and immediate iustly so called proper because it is proper only to reasonable and immortall spirits Immediate two wayes First because it can and doth receiue an impression of sorrow and paines made from God only by and in it selfe without any outward bodily meanes thereunto Secondly it is also an immediate punishment or els correction of sinne it commeth not for any other cause at all So that thus we meane when we speake of the soules proper and immediate suffering The soules second facultie of suffering paines is not proper but common to vs with beasts namely that which is by sympathie and communion with and from the body A third kinde of painfull suffering the soule hath namely her vehement and strong affections are painfull whether they be good or euill as zeale loue compassion pitie care c. neither are these immediatly for sinne whether punishments or corrections neither are they punishments or corrections at all properly in themselues accidentally they may be when they grow so strong that they paine and grieue the soule If the walles and roofe of your new hell rise no fairer nor stand no faster then your foundation doth a weake puffe of winde will blow all away If a man should shortly answer you That the soule of man hath but one
haue reuealed it yet that is no iust cause to doubt the trueth thereof or to preiudice the power of God who hath spoken the word as if he could not or would not performe it but rather for certaine to know and confesse that God can punish the mightiest of his Angels by the weakest of his creatures and as in sinning they haue exalted themselues by pride farre aboue their degree so in punishing them for their sinne God can and will depresse them as farre beneath their originall condition to teach them that all their strength depended on his will and pleasure So that we haue no neede to runne to the immediate hande of God alone to make him the sole tormentor of spirits as this Discourser doeth for extracting a new Quintessence of hell fire the will and word of God as it gaue to men and Angels all their power and force so may it take the same from them swelling against him when he will and subiect them to the force of any his creatures which he can endue with might to performe his commandement against all the transgressours and despisers of his righteousnesse and holinesse In summe we see that Christ suffered no part of that which the Scriptures make substantiall and essentiall to the paines of hell and damnation of the wicked I meane of that which is included in the sentence of the Iudge pronounced against them but this Discourser as he hath deuised a new kind of redemption neuer mentioned in the Scriptures nor deriued from the blood of Christ so hath he framed vs another hell then the word of God reuealeth and changed the whole course of the sacred Scriptures with his dreames and deuises that though the text of holy writ doe no way fauour his sansies yet by flying to allegories and heaping vp a number of metaphores he might entertaine some talke when his proofes did faile To vphold that Christ suffered the true paines of hell before we could be redeemed by his death bloodshed he minced hell paines into substance and accidence and least this geare should seeme grosse he shadowed the substance of hell fire with figures and allegories and sent vs at last to the immediate hand of God for all punishment of sinne in the life to come not vpon any iust ground or proofe out of Scripture but because his Mastership knew not otherwise how to carrie his conceites cleanly he vnloaded them all by tropes and metaphores vpon Gods immediate hand from which onely as he saith though very vntruely the Soule hath her proper and principall suffering But examining the parts we find no such metaphysicall substance of hell as he pretendeth no such metaphoricall fire as he affirmeth no such immediate hand of God vexing Soules and deuils in hell as he imagineth we rather find the cleane contrarie to wit his circumstances to be of the substance of the Iudgement pronounced vpon the wicked the fire in hell to be a true and substantiall fire and by that as by a peculiar meanes decreed by the will strengthened by the power and reuealed by the word of God the damned both soules and diuels to be perpetually punished and tormented each of them according to their demerits though the inward powers and faculties of the minde shall not cease most grieuously also to afflict the damned and despayring spirits And touching Christs sufferings to which all this must be referred and for which all this is discussed we finde him most free from darkenesâ⦠destruction confusion remorse of sinne from malediction dereaction and desperation with their consequents and from the torment of hell ââ¦ire either in soule or bodie which is the second death that is in deede from all the parts of damnation noted in the Scriptures to be prouided for the reprobate which are the true paines oâ⦠hell and so this deuisers dreames to bee as farre from trueth as they are from all testimonies of holy Scripture which mention no such things suffered by Christ nor make any of them needefull for Christ to suffer before he might pay the price of our redemption We doe not contend to expresse what iust measure of Gods wrath nor precisely in what manner it was reuealed and executed on Christ. Onely we knowe that whatsoeuer it were Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinnes though outwardly executed on the bodie yet it could not but sinke in deeper euen into the depth of the soule aââ¦d be discerned by Christ and conceaued to be such and so sustained as proceeding from God and so wound the Soule properly yea chiefly though the anguish thereof bruised his bodie ioyntly also You haue labored Sir Discourser in twentie pages of your Defence by many lame distinctions and false positions to shew vs the MANNER MEASVRE of Christs suffering the paines of hell for the sin of man The manner you made to be Christs suffering them properly yea onely in his very soule from the immediat hand of God euen as the damned do The measure you tooke to be all Gods proper wrath and vengeance for sinne yea the selfe same paines for their nature which are in hell and which are extreamest and sharpest in hell Your twelfth page told vs in plaine words These paines then in this very manner inflicted Christ felt indeede not being in the locall hell yet those being the selfe same paines for their nature which are in hell yea which are SHARPEST in hell And he discerned and receaued them properly yea ONLY in his very soule You beginne now to tell vs another tale that you doc not contend to expresse what iust measure of Gods wrath nor precisely in what manner it was reuealed and executed on Christ. Onely you know that what soeuer it was Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinnes though outwardly executed on the bodie could not but sinke in deeper and so wound the soule properly yea chiefly By a long processe you made vs beleeue the soules proper and immediat suffering must be from the hand of God alone without inferiour meanes and instruments and not from the bodie because that kind of suffering is common to vs with beastes and maketh not properly to our redemption And so by your refined diuinitie the stripes wounds blood and death of Christ could not properly pertaine to the price of our redemption by reason those sufferings which come by the body were common to Christ with beasts Thus reuerently and religiously to prooue your selfe a pure Christian you resolued touching the bloodshed and death of Christ sustained on the Crosse. Now as almost tyred with that blasphemous toy and perceiuing how hard it would be to please the learned with this leauen or to seduce the simple with these vnsauerie shifts which haue neither foundation nor mention in the sacred Scriptures you beginne to turne an other leafe and to tell vs you doe not contend for the iust measure nor precise maner of Christs suffering the wrath of God Only you know
of Christ the perfection of whose confidence and patience hee would demonstrate to Angels and men and propose him a paterne to all the Sonnes of God how to humble themsââ¦lues vnder the mightie hand of God and accept his obedience vnto death as a most precââ¦ous and pleasing satisfaction and sacrifice for the sinnes of his elect and reward his humilitie with vnspeakeable honour in making him Lord and Iudge of all both men and Angels not onely to confound the pride and suppââ¦esse the power of Satan but to adiudge him to euerlasting torments with all the wicked and accursed Against the tenor and effect of this Christian confession which I referre to the iudgements of all that be learned rightly instructed in the sacred Scriptures I neuer speake any one word to my knowledge I cannot in euery sentence repeate euery circumstance nor of euery page make a paire of Indentures much lesse may I forsake the forme of holsome words deliuered in the Scriptures But the maine summe and scope of this doctrine being so fully declared and so often repeated by me I had no reason to feare the capacity or doubt the memorie of any heedfull Reader And howsoeuer some shallow trifler may picke out a word heere and there to carpe at yet are there so many cleere places to direct all doubts that no man needeth to stumble but he that will not or can not stand vpright For let the Christian Reader looke but to the marke at which I aime in euery place and remember these two rules that of three sorts of death which onely are mentioned in the Scriptures as the wages of sinne to wit corporall spirituall and eternall death I alwayes remoue the two last from the person of Christ by describing or naming the first which was his corporall death and in that I conteine the whole course and maner of his death that is the feares forrowââ¦s shames temptations derisions smarts and paines which the Scriptures record in the history of his death and all my words will prooue plaine and easie which this maâ⦠thinketh so false in themselues so contrary to themselues Examine my words which he hath brought for examples of contradiction and falsity and see whether his labour be any more than meere nugation and vanitie Aââ¦ouching and prouing that Christ could not suffer eternall damnation which is the full wages of sinne nor the death of the soule which by the Scriptures must exclude Christ from the fauour and grace trueth and spirit of God and giuing the reasons why sinne could not preuaile vpon his person as it did vpon others I conclude What maruell then if sinne which should haue wrought in vs an eternal destruction both of bodie and soule could not farther preuaile in him that is to none other kinde of death but to the wounding of his flesh and shedding of his blood for the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes euen in the righteous and sincere iudgement of God In this I free Christ from eternall destruction or death of bodie and soule which was the wages of sinne in our persons but could not take holde on his as the difference there betwixt him and vs declareth I exempted him by proofs in the page precedent from the death of the soule which was the maine scope of that section and so leââ¦t him subiect onely to the third kinde of death which was corporall and might be suffered not onely without all taint of sinne losse of grace and change of Gods fauour but euen with great manifestation of Gods power and wisdome in his death and commendation of Christs obedience and patience vnto death That third kinde of death I doe not name but describe by the wounding of Christes flesh and shedding of his blood the rest of his paines and griefes that went bââ¦fore not being excluded as superfluous but continued and increased by that sharpe and ââ¦xtreame martyrdome which he endured on the crossâ⦠as my caueat touching Christs Crosse did plainly admonish And since the whole maner of Christes dââ¦ath and shedding his blood expressed in the Scriptures is the thing that I alwayes intend and the word doth import when I name or touch the death of Christ all that he voluntarily or violently suffered when he yeelded himselfe to be put to death ââ¦s comprised in the mention of his death Besides that Christ by his bloody sweat in the garden beganne of his owne accord in some sort to effuse his blood for our sakes and safeties and the efore it could haue no iust reason to imagine that my words exclude his agonie and other passions of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures specially my very next words affirming that the same part might and did suffer in Christ which sinned in man to wit the soule though by no meanes it could receiue the same wages which we should haue receiued But I professe by the generall title of my Sermons the full redemption of mankinde by the death and blood of Christ and commend the jââ¦ce and fruit of his bodily death as most sufficient That indeed is very dangerous to your fansie who hold the ioynt sufferings of Christes soule from and by his body not properly to pertaine to mans redemption for that they are common to men with beasts and therefore labour to frustrate all the words of the Holy Ghost deliuered in the Scriptures as improper and impertinent to our saluation but to me there can be no danger in the trueth nor doubt of the fruit or force of those things which the spirit of God so often and euidently commendeth vnto vs in the ââ¦acred Scriptures as the price of our redemption and meanes of our reconciliation to God In Christ sayth Paul we haue redemption by his blood euen the remission of our sinnes Redemption by Christs blood you will and must gââ¦ant the Holy ghost doth directly auouch it but whether that redemption be full and most sufficient which is purchased by the blood of Christ you doe make some doubt or els you need not sticke at my words which import so much Of that if you doubt you must beare the name of some other sect and not of a Christian for no Christian may doubt whether the redemption which we haue by the blood of Christ be fââ¦ll and suffââ¦cient or no. To make Christ in part a Sauiour is to make him in part no Sauiour contrary to S Peter who sayth There is no saluation in any other If you will deââ¦iue our whole redemption from him but not from his blood shed for vs then giue you S. Iohn the lie who sayth The blood of Iesus Christ clenseth vs from all sinne Clensing from all sinne is full and perfect redemption from sinne and sinne being fully remitted and purged there is no cause of breach betweene God and vs that should hinder our saluation Christ by his owne blood sayth Paul entred once into the holy place hauing purchased eternall
nature of man and solus erat vitam ponendi dominus Christ alone was the Ruler or master of laying downe his life Howbeit in your mocking vaine you goe on and say that I will conclude this better You must remember what God himselfe saith O foole this night they shall fetch away thy soule from thee Whereto you adde I remember it well what then ergo Christ saying none taketh my life from me ment he would dye miraculously and not by the fayling of nature in him If this be the reason verely I graunt it is marueylous subtill and past my reach If you ouer-reach no more then this reason doth you will come short of all your new conceits If your memory be not too much moistened you may call to mind that this place was brought to prooue Christ was vnlike vs in the laying downe of this soule and if I be not as grosse as you are gamesome it proueth it very directly God by those words expresseth the rich man should that night die and thereby teacheth vs that when we dye our soules are taken from vs. So that it is not in our power to keepe our soules in our bodies as long as we will nor to leaue them when we list but when God sendeth will we nill we they are taken from vs. This Christ denieth to be verified in him none tooke his soule from him but he laid is downe of himselfe which we cannot doe Hence if it please you to frame but this reason which is in open sight All mens soules are taken from them when they dye Christs soule was not taken from him when he dyed ergo Christ dyed not in the same manner that we doe and so was vnlike vs in his death by the manifest wordes of the Scripture you shall see a plaine truth not past your reach though repugnant to your purpose But I should proue Christ died miraculously not naturally That at last after long and sore anguish of mind bodily torments his natural strength failed him therfore he bowed his head and gaue vp the ghost what miracle is there in this Men may well maruaile at your folly who turne wind euery way rather then you will acknowledge that which the Scriptures expresly witnesse was in Christ aboue mans nature which they that saw it marueiled at which the best Diuines of all ages haue confessed to be miraculous in the death of Christ To haue perfect sense speach and moââ¦on at the very instant of giuing vp the ghost is a thing not possible to our nature Our speach and sense luntaâ⦠motion doe first euidently faile before our soules depart from our bodies But Christ had all three by the full report of the Euangelists euen to the very act of breathing out of his soule Saint Iohn writeth that Iesus knowing all things were fulfilled said I thirst and when he had tasted the vineger he said it is finished and inclining his head gaue vp the ghost Hee noteth in Christ exact memorie of all things written in the Scripture touching him Plaine speach and voluntarie motion in laying downe his head at the very moment that he yeelded vp the ghost S. Luke witnesseth that crying with a lowde voyce Christ said Father into thine hands I will commend or lay down my Spirit ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã And speaking these words hee breathed out his soule The lowdnesse of his voyce and effect of his prayer professing hee would now die and at the same instant performing it by giuing vp his spirit conclude that neither sense memorie speach nor prayer failed him to the last breath as they doe vs when wee draw towards death and therefore the maner of his death to bee farre distant from ours Anone after you say he might die and in the meane while both sense and speach faile him before he died Your libertie to iudge of the sense of the Scripture doeth lead you and hold you to this errour You imagine what please you of the words of the Euangelists and auerting them from their true coherence by interposing your fansies you maintaine it as your right to iudge of the meaning of the holy Ghost But consult your conscience that you ââ¦st not with the truth and compare the Euangelists words and purpose together and you shall soone see the course and force of them To what end doe the Euangelists so carefully note in Christ these circumstances not vsuall with vs noâ⦠possible for vs at the departure of our soules but onely to shew the trueth of his owne words that none tooke his soule from him but hee laied it downe of himselfe which he had power to doe and accordingly did and therefore they describe him remembring all things calling euen for drinke because hee was exceeding drie through paine warning the people standing about him with a lowde prayer that he would now lay downe his soule into his Fathers hands And so bowing his head of his owne accord he forthwith breathed out his soule Anone after say you but nature first decaying in him Presently say I when there was in him no decay of nature nor any want of memorie sense or speach In vaine else were all those things both performed by our Sauiour and testified by the Euangelists if this were not the scope thereof that Christ with actuall and perfect obedience deuotion and submission to the will of God and therefore also with full and perfect memorie sense and speach did aboue the strength and vse of men willingly and powerfully with one breath render his soule into the hands of his Father who had decreed hee should die but gaue him leaue and power to lay downe his soule of his owne accord when hee would without constraint or stroke of death wresting or taking his soule from him And that the maner of Christs death was miraculous euen in his owne Person and draue the standers by to confesse hee was more then a man that so could die if you could but open your partial eares you should heare the Euangelists cofirme though you very coursely intreate S. Ierom as bending himselfe therein against the plaine text where indeed he rightly pursueth the words of the holy Ghost and you would saucily controle one text by an other and not seeke to reconcile them together Saint Markes words are these And Iesus crying with a lowde voyce gaue vp the ghost and the Centurion that stoode ouerright him seeing ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that crying in such sort hee breathed out his soule said Surely this man was the Sonne of God This crying so lowde which Saint Marke speaketh of was that prayer whereby Christ commended his soule into his Fathers hands as S. Luke testifieth for those were the last words hee spake at the time when he gaue vp the ghost The breathing out of his soule so presently vpon so strong a voyce and ââ¦o lowde a prayer was so strange that it forthwith mooued the Centurion who stoode
speechlesse we die that are of the earth but he which came from heauen breathed out his soule with a loud voice We must say it was a shew of his diuine power to lay downe his soule when he would and to take it againe Yea the Centurio hearing him say to hiâ⦠Father Into thine hands I commend my spirit statim sponte spiritum dimisisse and straightway of his own accord to send forth his spirit mooued with the GREATNES of this WOONDER said Truly this was the Sonne of God Chrysostome vpon these words of Matthew Iesus crying with a loud voice gaue vp the ghost sayth Idcirco magna voce clamauit vt ostendat haec sua potestate fieri Therefore Christ cried with a loud voice that he might shew this to be done by his owne power Marke sayth Pilate maruââ¦lled if he were alreadie dead And the Centurion also THERââ¦FORE CHIEFLY beleeued because he saw Christ die of his owne accord and power Victor of Antioch vpon the like words of Marke sayth By so doing the Lord Iesus doth plainly declare that he had his whole life and death in his owne free power Wherefore Marke writeth that Pilate not without admiration asked if Christ were yet dead addidit item ea potissimum de causa Centurionem credidisse he added likewise that the Centurion chiefly for that reason beleeued because he saw Christ giue vp the ghost with a loud crie and signification of great power Leo noting that Christ died not for lacke of helpe but of determinatâ⦠purpose sayth Quae illic vitae intercessio sentienda est vbi anima potestate est emissa potestate reuocata What intreatie for life shall we thinke there was where the soule was both sent out with power and recalled with power Fulgentius Cum ergo homo Christus tantam accepââ¦rit potestatem vt cum vellet animam poneret cum vellet denuò resumeret quantam potuit habere Christi diuinitas potestatem Ideo autem ille homo potestatem animae habuit quia cum diuina potestas in vnitatem personae suscepit Where then the man Christ receiued so much power that he might lay downe his soule when he would and take it againe when he would how great power might the Godhead of Christ haue and therefore the manhood of Christ had power to lay downe his soule because the diuine power admitted him into the vinitie of person Sedulius Animam protinus suam sancto de corpore volens ipse deposââ¦it Christ himselfe forthwith vpon his prayer willingly layd off his sacred soule from his bodie Nonnius in his Paraphrase vpon S. Iohns Gospell expresseth the saying of Christ None taketh my soule from me in these words No birth-law taketh my soule from me no incroching time that tameth all things nor Necessitie which is vnchangeable counsell ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but ruler of my selfe I of mine owne accord yeeld vp my willing soule Beda vpon that place of Matthew And Iesus crying with a loud voice sent out or gaue vp his spirit writeth thus Quod autem dicit emisit spiritum ostendit diuinae potestatis esse emittere spiritum vt ipse quoque dixerat nemo potest tollere animam in that the Euangelist saith Christ sent out his soule or spirit he sheweth it is a point of Diuine power to send out the soule as Christ himselfe sayd None can take my soule from me Nullus enim habet potestatem emittendi spiritum nisi qui animarum conditor est For none hath power to send out the soule but he that is Creator of soules Which Bede buildeth vpon the words of S. Matthew who saith that Christ crying with a loud voice ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã dismissed or sent his soule from him Theophylact Iesus crieth with a loud voice that we should know it was true which he sayd I haue power to lay downe my soule for not constrained but of his own accord he dismissed his soule And the Centurion seeing that he breathed out his soule so like a Commander of death WONDERED and confessed him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for he died not like other men but as the Master of death Lyra vpon these words of Matthew Iesus againe crying with a loude voice sent forth his soule Whereby it appeareth that voice was not naturall but MIRACVLOVS because a man afflicted with great and long torment and through such affliction neere to death could not so cry by any strength of nature The latter writers concurre with the older in this obseruation Erasmus in his Paraphrase vpon Saint Luke Iesus when with a mighty cry he had said Father into thy hands I commend my spirit breathed out his soule to make it manifest to all that he did not faint as others doe the strengh of the body by little and little decaying but straightway vpon a strong cry and words distinctly pronounced laid downe his life as of his owne accord And the Centurion who stood ouerright as a Minister and witnesse of his death and had seene many dye with punishment when he saw Iesus besides the manner of other men after a strong cry presently to breath out his soule said truely this man was the Sonne of God Musculus That Christ sent foorth hiâ⦠soule with aloude voice is a proofe of greater power then may be found in a man dying Whereby he shewed that he layed of his soule of his owne accord answerable to that I haue power to lay downe my soule and to take it againe To which end Iohn saith that bowing his head he gaue vp the Ghost Others first dye and then their heads fall but he first layeth downe his head and then of his owne accord deliuereth his soule vp to his Father Gualter But let vs see the manner of Christs death who as Iohn writeth with bowing downe his head yelded his Spirit Luke saith he cryed with a loude voice Father into thy hands I commend my Spirite Concurrunt hââ¦c non obscura Diuinitatis argumenta Here find we manifest arguments of his Diuinitie which the Centurion and others obserued as some of the Euangelists witnesse First this cry and distinct pronouncing of his last words sheweth a power and vertue MORE THEN HVMANE For we know that men dying so faint that the most of them cannot speake be it neuer so softly Againe he dyeth when he will himselfe yea and layeth of his soule with authoritie to shew himselfe Lord of life and death which is an euident proofe of his Diuine power It is profitable for vs diligently to marke the Diuine power of Christ which shewed it selfe so plainly in his death Marlorat vpon the words of Mathew and Iesus crying againe with a loud voyce sent foorth his spirit saith Declarat hic Christus maiestatem suam Christ declareth here his Maiestie that he layeth downe his soule not when men constraine him but when he himselfe will
Whereupon Pilat maruailed that Christ was so soone dead And the Lord himselfe said None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe I haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe To which it pertaineth that is written he bowing downe his head gaue vp his spirit for other men first dye and then their heads hang but Christ first laid downe his head and then voluntarily rendered his soule to his Father Many moe might be brought of all ages and places confessing the same but if these suffice not what may be enough I doe not know To decline the Scriptures and Fathers that make against him the Discourser hath deuised two shifts very like the rest of of his tenents that is void of all truth and iudgement I deny not saith he but Christ might shew some strange vnusuall thing apparantly to the beholders in vttering his last voice which might very much mooue the beholders and hââ¦arers Adde hereunto that experience sheweth as Phisitians say how some diseases in the body bring death presently after most strong and violent crying Namely in some excessiue torments as of the stone Things reported and expressed in the Scriptures touching the strange and wonderfull manner of Christs death you deny and dreame of things there no way mentioned to coulour your matter and cosin your Reader That Christ did render his soule into his Fathers hands when as yet neither speech sense memory nor motion began to faile is diligently obserued by the Euangelists and was greatly marueyled at by the Centurion which saw the manner of his death As also that he breathed out his soule of his owne accord when he had spoken those words without any former or other degrees or pangs of death appearing in him is likewise witnessed by the Scriptures and constantly auouched by all the Fathers Saint Luke saith and speaking these words he breat hed out his soule Saint Mathew and crying with a loud voice he dismissed his spirit Saint Marke and sending a strong voice from him he blew out his Soule This did he of his owne accord and power None taking his soule from him as in death they doe ours but declaring himselfe by laying of his soule when he would and as he would to be Lord and master of life and death This is fit for all Christians to confesse least they dishonor the death of Christ by depriuing his person of that power and glory which he openly shewed in the eyes eares of all his persecutors This you shift of and instced thereof imagine some strange and VNVSVALI accident in the manner of Christs death which neither the Scriptures report nor you can expresse wherein you shew your selfe forward to inuent what is not written and backward to beleeue what is written which is the trade of such men as meane to make a shipwracke of their faith That a man may dye crying as Christ did you haue found at length if not from Diuines at least from Phisitians for I perccaue you haue sought all sorts of helps both farre and neere to vphold your fansies Pââ¦rchaunce Phisitians may tell you when a painefull disease possesseth the parts which are no fountaines of life or sense a man may cry till sense and strength begin to faile and so hasten his death by the violent spending of his spirits but that a man may by any course of nature retaine perfect memorie sense motion and speach to the very act of breathing out his soule I assure my selfe no wise Phisitian will affirme And if any more humorous then learned will wade so farre without his Art he must vnderstand that his word may not ouersway the Rules of Diuinitie and Principles of nature For what are the powers and faculties whereby the soule is conioyned with the body but life sense and motion so long then as they last the soule by nature neither doth nor can forsake the body But when sense and motion first outward and then inward are oppressed and ouerwhelmed then life also perisheth and the soule may no longer abide in her body the vnion by which she was fastened vnto it being wholy dissolued Wherefore death which is the priuation of life by Gods ordinance for the punishment of sinne by degrees surpriseth and in the end quencheth all sense and motion and so forceth the soule to forsake her seate which by Gods appointment is violently parted from hir body whether she will or no but neuer till the effects oflife which are sense and motion be first decayed and abolished A sowne is the suddainest ouerwhelming of the powers of life which any natural experience doth teach vs and yet therewith though outward sense and motion doe faile at an instant and the inward be very weake and almost insensible the soule doth not presently depart but stayeth a time till all sense and motion without and within except the partie be recouered be vtterly extinguished Wherefore in all men by necessitie of nature the powers and parts of life decav in some sooner in some later before they die and therefore in Christ on the Crosse it was MIRACVLOVS and aboue nature that hauing full perfect outward and inward sense speech and motion he did in a moment when he would and as he would render his soule into the hands of his Father without any farder decayes or other degrees of death precedent then the very act of breathing out his soule which left his body presently and perfectly dead Thou hast gentle Reader the causes and prooses that mooued me to obserue the manââ¦r of Christes death to bee different from ours which whether they be consonant to the Scriptures and rightly conceiued by those learned and ancient Fathers which I haue named vnto thee I leaue to thy discrecte iudgement assuring thee there is nothing to hinder the maine consent of so many old and new writers in a matter of so great consequence but onely the headdinesse of this discourser who vpon a bare pretence of one peece of Scripture not well vnderstood and worse applied thinketh he may worke wonders and conclude all these graue and sound Expositours to be so ignorant of the sense of that place and so vnable to reach to the depth of those words Christ was LIKE VS IN ALL things that with one accord they would affirme a sine fable a Paradoxe in Nature and contrarie to Scripture Howbeit it is no newes with this man to defend that Christ was distempered ouerwhelmed and all confounded both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body He boldly auoucheth it was so with Christ before his death in the Garden and on the Crosse and therefore hee presumeth it might much more befall him at his death But let him keepe these secrets to himselfe I doubt not Christian Reader but thou wilt be well aduised before thou put the Sauiour of the world and the Sonne of God out of his wits or senses to make way for
ambiguous and quarrellous The whole propitiatorie sacrifice are words as doubtfull as the other for since Christ was the Priest who by his eternall spirit offered himselfe vnspotted to God and gaue himselfe for vs to be an offering and sacrifice of a sweet smel vnto God his innocence and obedience chiefly rested in his soule thence sanctified his bodie which suffered death for the ransome of our sinnes Though then all things in Christ were holie and acceptable vnto God and so sacrifices most meritorious yet nothing did fully satisfie the iustice of God for sinne nor make a perfect reconciliation for vs with God but his obedience vnto death For that which must satisfie for sinne must be death other ransome for sinne God neither in his wisdome and counsell would nor in his trueth and iustice could accept after his will once determined and declared It was the first wages appointed and denounced by God to sinne In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt die the death or certainly thou shalt die the doubling of the word noting the inflexibilitââ¦e of Gods counsell and iustice The Apostle witnesseth the same when he sayth The wages of sinne is death Then as sinne was irreuocabââ¦e rewarded with death so must it necessarily be redeemed by death Which rule stood so sure that when the Sonne of God would giue himselfe for vs to redeeme vs he could not do it by reason of Gods immutable counsell and decree but by death Wherefore the Apostle calleth him the Mediator of the New testament through death for the redemption of transgressions And where a testament is there MVST BE sayth he the death of the testator He contenteth not himselfe to say there was but there must be the death of the testator before we could be redeemed A necessitie not simplie binding Gods power but plainly declaring his counsell to be fixed and his will reuealed Since then Christ was to taste death for all men that through death he might destroy him which had power of death euen the diuell and deliuer vs who were reconciled to God by the death of his sonne the point which indeed wee both must stand on is what death Christ suffered to redeeme vs from sinne and to reconcile vs vnto God whether it were the death of the damned which is the second death or the death of the soule or as I auouch the death of the bodie only Other parts of Christes person and beames of his vertues and kinds of his sufferings are not to this quââ¦stion ââ¦arther than they commended and presented to God Christes death which must ransome our sinnes but the scope to which all the rest was referred and the ââ¦lose which consummated all the rest was death and therefore no sufferings of Christ were parts of the propitiatorie sacrifice which ransomed sinne but such as ended in death or tended to that sorrowfull shamefull and painfull death of Christ which by order of Gods iustice was appointed to satisfie for sinne The fulnesse of which satisfaction consisted in death and therefore the death and bloud of Christ though they were not the whole sacrifice yet were they the full and perfect ransome and price for sinne because without them the rest could not preuaile and to them all the rest was directed If then you will deale plainly as you pretend or not forget your duetie to God and his trueth you must leaue cauilling with the words of the Holy Ghost and go soberly to consider not whether any other sufferings but whether any other death of Christes be mentioned in the Scriptures to ransome our sinnes besides the death of his bodie If you finde any other there professe ââ¦t in Gods name if you finde none but only that described or mentioned in the Scriptures leaue snarling at the depth and bredth of those words which the Spirit of God hath authorized and learne rather to vnderstand them truely than vainly to oppose against them In sense and substance there is no difference betwixt these words the death bloud and crosse of Christ the crosse noting the tree whereon Christ died a reprochfull and cruell death for vs and his bloud expressing the maner of his death by sundrie sorts of shedding the same as by whipping piercing his head with thornes boaring his hands and feet to fasten him to the crosse and hanging him thereon three houres by the sorenesse of his wounds till his soule departed from his bodie To make these iarre one with the other which the holy Ghost had knit together is the signe of a busie but not of godly wit and howsoeuer you and your adherents can flourish with figures of Grammar you were best take heede that you turne not your eares from the trueth of God The bodily death which Christ died to ransome our sinnes the holy Ghost doth note sometimes by his Flesh sometimes by his Body sometimes by his Blood and sometimes by his Crosse and these either ioyned or seuered and sometimes also by his soule or life laide downe or powred out vnto death for vs. We finde them ioyned when Paul saith It pleased God by Christ to reconcile all things to himselfe and to pacifie by the BLOOD of his Crosse through him both things in earth and things in heauen And you which in times past were strangers and enemies hath he now reconciled in the BODY OF HIS FLESH through death Seuered are they when Peter saith You were redeemed by the precious blood of Christ as a Lambe vndefiled Who by his owne blood saith the Apostle entered in once into the holyplace and obtained eternall Redemption And so when Iohn saith The blood of Iesus Christ clenseth vs from all sinne As likewife Paul We haue Redemption through his blood euen the Remission of sinnes Of his body himselfe saith This is my body which is giuen for you and my flesh will I giue for the life of the world so are we sanctified by the offering of the body of Iesus Christ once Likewise of his soule by which the Scripture meaneth his life for that life wholy dependeth vpon the presence of the soule in the body My Father loueth me sayth Christ because I lay downe my soule or life The sonne of man came to giue his soule or life as a ransome for many And Esay foreshewed that Christ should diuide the spoyle of or with the mightie Because he powred out his soule vnto death which seuereth the soule from the body and so made it an offering for sinne by laying it downe of himselfe that death might seaze on his body This then being the maine foundation of the Gospel which the Apostle receiued that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures the Question still standeth as I first set it What death Christ died for our sinnes by the witnesse of holy Scriptures and not what sufferings went before or what other things ioyned with his death which is
owne words and hereafter by your leaue tell you it is a plaine lye and a meere shift if you father your termes of Christs meere blood and single bodie vpon me as any part of the Question which I mooued or Doctrine which I defend Wherefore I pray thee Christian Reader once more to take notice that I be not driuen in euery page to proue one and the same thing against the Discoursers vnsauery childish and Idle phrases with which he would faine elude the Scriptures and delude the world Your confession both of my Sermons and conclusion Sir Descourser is this Sundry times you teach that Christ did suffer peculiarly and seuerally some proper punishments in his soule besides his bodily sufferings yea that this was a part of his crosse and the effect of Gods wrath on his soule as well as the suffering in his body Against my words so often witnessed in my writings and so openly confessed by your selfe you take vpon you by some secret reuelation belike to know my meaning that no more but the shedding of Christs blood MEERELY is the full satisfaction of all our sinnes which MEERE BLOOD of Christ the Scriptures meane not nor onely his body SINGLY and SIMPLY considered The MEERE blood and SINGLE and SIMPLE body of Christ with such like couerts of your cause are termes fit for such a teacher as you are to which if you could once conuert the Question we must haue as many Lexicons to bring vs out of these Laberinthes as there be leaues in your booke Keepe them therefore as whelps of your owne litture the faith of Christ and the word of God hath stood without them these sixteene hundered yeeres What I meane by the body and blood of Christ giuen and shed for our Redemption and the remission of our sinne I haue meetly well expressed I must not in euery section fall to fresh repetitions When I speake as the Scripture speaketh I meane as the Scripture meaneth They know not your new termes of the MEERE blood nor of the single and simple body of Christ but by his blood and death they meane that manner of shedding his blood and that kind and course of death suffered in the body of his flesh which the Gospell describeth no way excluding from Christ when he presented himselfe before God to vndertake mans cause the due consideration of mans infirmitie and iniquitie abounding or of Gods iustice therewith displeased nor his humble and voluntary submission to the mightie hand and righteous will of his heauenly Father to excuse vs from the heauie iudgement that otherwise did hang ouer our heads So much as the Scriptures mention in declaring the manner of his death and bloodshedding so much they containe in the name of his Crosse blood and death For as the description which the holy Ghost maketh is in no point idle so the comprehension of all vnder one word excludeth nothing formerly described This I take to be a sound and sure way to expound the Scriptures by their owne direction and intention For since the manner and order of Christs death was so carefully regestred by the spirite of God that we should not be ignorant of it whensoeuer the Scriptures speake of Christs Crosse blood and death they referre vs to all that which either by the Prophets was foretold or in the Gospell is expressed touching the order and manner of his death And so Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures as Paul addeth Then to take any thing from it which is mentioned in the Scriptures or to adde any thing to it which is not there expresly recorded is to depart from the word of trueth and to dishonor and deface the death and bloud of Christ with our inuentions This being my meaning euen from the beginning as my words declare I moued these two generall questions The first Whether in the crosse and death of Christ described in the Scriptures the death of the soule or the death of the damned were by any good warrant of the sayd Scriptures comprised Secondly Whether the crosse and death of Christ as the Scriptures describe them be not the full and perfect price of our redemption from sinne and reconciliation to God by the testimonie of the same Scriptures without the death of the soule or paines of the damned The Discourser finding himselfe inclosed with these questions speaketh directlie to neither and prooueth nothing in either but declining the enuie of these speeches the death of the soule and the paines of the damned which indeed are the points misliked and reiected he changeth the first question into the generall termes of suffering Gods wrath and the soules proper suffering which may import manie things besides those two and in the second he euery where beareth the Reader in hand that by the death and bloud of Christ I meane the MEERE bodily sufferings of Christ without anie sense or sorrow of the soule in her spirituall powers And lest the Scripture should stand in his way he casteth them all behinde him that any way witnesse the force and merit of Christes death and bloudshedding as figuratiue speeches because they name not the MEERE bloud of Christ nor only his body SINGLY considered But Sir all this while you forget that you haue proued nothing but onely supposed and auouched what pleased you and that in matters of faith you may not adde to the word of God without manifest apostasie The things questioned by me were the death of the soule and the verie paines of the damned as appeareth euidently by my words when I first mooued the question Of these you say nothing all this while which yet you must soundly fully proue before you may adde them to the words of the Holy ghost testifying the power vertue of Christes bloud and death Therefore howsoeuer you seeme to shift off the Scriptures as figuratiue speeches with your MEERE and SINGLE termes they will sticke faster by you than so For as there can be no doubt of my meaning comprising all in the death and bloud of Christ which the Scriptures report of the order and maner of his sufferings when he yeelded himselfe to die for the sinnes of the world according to the counsell of his Fathers wil so you may not presume any thing to be conteined in the death or crosse of Christ as requisite for our redemption which is not cleerely witnessed by the Scriptures Proue therefore by the Scriptures that Christ died the death of the soule or the death of the damned which are the true paines of hell and then adde it to the crosse of Christ when you will Till so you do the Scriptures which I haue produced stand in their full strength against you For as they bind all Christian men stedfastly to beleeue that which is written touching their redemption by the death and bloud of Christ so do they straitly prohibit all and euery be they men or Angels to adde any other
sheepeheard and lay downe my soule for my sheepe that is by my death men are deliuered from eternall death I aske now the Christian Reader whether he thinke it a shift of mine when Christ gaue his soule for vs or our soules for me to say that he gaue it by the losse of his life in such sort as the Euangelists describe or whether the Scriptures and Fathers together with the later writers doe not consent with me in the same exposition of Christs words This conclusion then that Christ gaue his soule for our soules doth not inferre that he had distinct times places or manners of suffering or dying for our soules and then for our bodies that is erroneous iniurious to the death of Christ and openly disclaimed euen by the Discourser himselfe but that in suffering death on the crosse by which his soule was separated from his body after long and sharpe torments first endured in his body his soule was the chiefe or rather the onely patient that discerned and sustained the bitternesse of the paines and perceiued the cause for which and the counsell of God from whence all that affliction was ordained and decreed For as we sinned in body and soule but chiefly in soule so Christs death for our Redemption must grieue both body and soule but chiefly the soule which was ioyned with the body in suffering death that both soule and body might be redeemed and the paine thereof proportioned to the soule as the pleasure of sinne chiefly delighted the soule More then this no Father euer ment and this is no way denied by me You would faine wring in a conceite of your owne into their words which is mainly directly against their words and resolutions in all other places and therefore which of vs two deserueth best the name of a shifter let the Reader iudge The Fathers striue to expresse an exact proportion so farre as was possible betweene Christ and vs first in the parts that suffered in Christ and are saued in vs Next in that which Christ suffered for vs and which we are saued from thereby They iustly conclude that no parts of our nature are saued in vs but such as Christ assumed into the vnitie of his person and therefore in Christs sufferings there must be body and soule before they could be humane sufferings or auailable for vs. As by man came death so by man came the resurrection of the dead But that they doe or would affirme that we are saued from no more then Christ suffered for vs or that we are wholy freed from all those kinds of paines which he suffered for our sakes this is a false and fantasticall proportion of your owne inuenting it is no part of their meaning Sundry things should we haue suffered for sinne as the death of the soule and the death of the damned besides reiection from all grace and blisse confusion malediction and many other terrors and torments of conscience which by no meanes these Fathers apply to Christ but in euident and vehement words auouch the contrarie Christ likewise suffered wrong reproch shame paine and death of the body from which we are not freed yea rather we must haue fellowship with his afflictions and be conformed vnto his death before we shall be partakers of the comforts that are in him or of his resurrection So that your running to proportions of your owne compounding when you should bring sound probations for that you defend is mad Musicke though best becomming the discords of your doctrine As we are saued not in our bodies onely nor onely in the externall sensitiue part of our soules wherein standeth that suffering with and by our bodies but we are saued redeemed and sanctified in our whole spirit and vnderstanding also euen so by their verdict Christ suffered for vs not the bodily and outward sufferings by Sympathie onely but he suffered for vs euen in his minde also Now this is directly against your present assertion A man can not readily tell whether your assertion in this place be more false absurd or idle The Scripture teacheth vs that a man hath but two substances of which he consisteth a mortall and visible which is his bodie an immortall and inuisible which is his soule Our Sauiour who best knew what man had saith as much Feare not them which kill the bodie but can not kill the soule feare him rather that can destroy soule and bodie in hell The names of these parts are sometimes varied and sometimes diuided into sundrie powers and faculties but the partes themselues cannot be increased Salomon speaking of mans death sayth Dust goeth to the earth as it was meaning the bodie and the Spirit returneth to God that gaue it meaning the Soule Of a Virgin Paul sayth she careth for the things of the Lord that she may be holy both in bodie and spirit that is in bodie and soule And writing to the Thessalonians the same Apostle saith that their whole Spirit and Soule and Bodie may be kept blamelesse vnto the comming of the Lord Iesus Christ. Of this place diuerse haue diuersly thought Chrysostome Theodoret Ambrose Ierome Oecumenius and Theophylact commenting on these words take the spirit for the grace of Gods spirit wherewith our mindes are lightned and renewed and indeede sometimes Paul vseth the word spirit for the gifts of the spirit as where he saith Quench not the spirit and calleth them our spirits as the Spirits of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets Howbeit Athanasius Tertullian Epiphanius Gregorie Nyssene Augustine Bede and others take here the spirit for the vnderstanding and minde of man as also Caluine Zanchius and Beza doe who referre the soule here spoken of to the will and affections of man not that any of them maketh two soules in man which were most absurd but that by those names they note two different faculties or functions in one and the same substance of mans soule Come now to your words and see how handsomely you proportion them either to your Authors or to the trueth or to your purpose Not one of the Fathers which you cite nameth the minde of Christ but onely his soule and his bodie saue Nazianzene who speaketh not of Christs suffering in the minde but of his sanctifying the same by assuming it in his incarnation Let himselfe explane his owne wordes in the very same place Our mind some say is condemned And what our flesh is not that also condemned then either cast away mans flesh from Christ for sinne or admit mans mind that it may be saued For if Christ take the worse part of man to sanctific it by his incarnation shall he not take the better part that it may be sanctified ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã by his assuming of mans nature I speake not this as if it might not safely be granted that Christs soule suffered as well by
his minde as by his sense and you nothing the neerer to your purpose of his suffering hell paines in mind from the immediate hand of God but to let the Reader see how you catch at Fathers for an aduantage without any shew of their words and when they make against you you reiect with disdaine the whole aray of them Your diuiding of man into his parts and your resolutions thereupon are more absurd and haue neither trueth learning nor common vnderstanding in them Of man to shew your exactnesse you make these partes ââ¦e bodie the externall sensitiue part of the soule the whole spirit and vnderstanding also You name here the bodie the soule and the spirit but so vntowardly that neither your selfe nor any man els can tell how to make them agree Hath the soule if you will needes distinguish it from the spirit no moe parts or powers to suffer or to be saued but the externall sensitiue part will you take the soule to be all one with the spirit and so make the whole spirit as much as the whole soule But the Apostle reckoneth the whole spirit the soule and the bodie whose words you would seeme to follow and so seuereth the soule from the spirit But not by the externall sensitiue part as you doe Againe why adde you the vnderstanding also after the whole spirit As if it were no part thereof but a different thing from the spirit But this is your skill when you come to any matter of importance to wrap it in ambiguous and confused termes that it shall be more masterie to vnderstand you then to refute you And how commeth it about by your Philosophie that the sufferings of the soule by and from the body pierce no farder then into the externall senses of the soule Doe the sufferings of the body offend and afflict the powers onely or the substance also of the soule Is not the very substance of the Soule passible and punishable as well by the powers of sense as by the affections and vnderstanding The actions passions powers and faculties of the soule are they not all grounded on and seated in the substance of the soule so that from thence all the actions thereof must proceed therein all the passions thereof must be receiued and thereon all the faculties thereof depend Are you so learned in logick that you will bring vs passions without a subiect or powers and faculties without a substance Whether it be therefore by the vnderstanding will affections or sense that the soule suffereth the substance thereof suffereth by those powers and meanes and not any part thereof for so much as the substance of the soule is not diuisible into parts as being a spirit though the powers and faculties thereof may be distinguished and called parts Then is it a strange position of yours that the sensitiue part suffereth or that the vnderstanding suffereth and not the soule by either of them when indeed the substance of the soule suffereth by or from her power or faculties of sense vnderstanding and will which are the meanes that God hath made to impresse paine on the soule For the vnderstanding which you call the mind is no more a seuerall substance in the soule then the power of sense is and the soule not onely discerneth particular things by her facultie of sense as she doth consequent and generall things by hir facultie of reason but by the eares and eyes she heareth the word and beholdeth the works of God whence commeth information of faith and truth Of the vnderstanding Epiphanius saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. I thinke not our mind to be any substance of it selfe neither hath any of the children of the Church so thought but to be an effectuall power or operation giuen of God and abiding in vs. Of the sense Tertullian saith Anima perinde per corpus corporalia sentit quemadmodum per animam incorporalia intelligit The soule perceiueth corporall things by the sense euen as she doth vnderstand incorporall things by the mind And shewing how both those powers depend on the soule he addeth Sit nunc potior sensu intellectus dummodo ipse propria vis animae quod sensus Let the vnderstanding excell the sense so that it be a proper facultie of the Soule as the sense is Of the passions of Christs Soule Fulgentius writeth Nunc ostendendum nobis est passionem tristitiae maeroris taedij timoris ad animae substantiam propriè pertinere Now must we shew that the passion of sorrow heauinesse and loathing of hart and feare which our Sauiour felt pertaine properly to the substance of the soule And at the length concluding that the flesh of it selfe can neither haue life nor sense nor sorrow nor desire nor feare nor mourning he saith Haec ergo cuncta in anima quam susceperat pertulit Christus vt veram totamque in se cum suis infirmitatibus hominis demonstraret accepti substantiam All these passions Christ endured in his soule which he tooke that he might shew in himselfe THE TRVE AND VVHOLE SVBSTANCE of a man with his infirmities The purpose for which you pretend so many Fathers is as idle as all the rest for the Soule of Christ might suffer by her senses by her affections by her vnderstanding and will and yet not suffer the paines of hell nor the death of the soule which is your doctrine Though therefore the Fathers doe say that the soule of Christ suffered in his death and passion which is a thing I neuer doubted of much lesse called in question yet neither auouch they it suffered your hell paines neither from the immediate hand of God as your deuice leadeth which things are as strange to them as those they neuer heard of By the Fathers Christ suffered exactly all and whatsoeuer sorrowes and paines which we should haue suffered as well spirituall as corporall as well in all the powers of the soule subiect to suffering as in that which suffered alwaies with and from the body This if you would prooue by the Fathers themselues and not by your false translating and misapplying their words which otherwise haue no such thing you said somewhat You haue raked together some places alleaged formerly by me or formerly refuted by me and out of them you would make fresh shewes if you could tell how There is onely one place of Cyrill taken out of my Sermons by you as you doe the rest of your authorities which hath generall termes apt to be wrested by you and forced against the Authors minde which you forget not to straine to the vttermost the rest are miserably racked without cause or colour from the Fathers mindes and wordes Cyrill saith Omnia Christus perpessus est vt nos ab omnibus liberaret Christ suffered all things that he might free vs from all where the word ALL is found which you make the ground of all your descant
suffer then Christ did not so suffer If you flie to the purpose of the punisher which was different in Christ and his members and thinke there to succour your selfe you come to short the purpose of God in Christes afflictions as I haue shewed by the Scriptures was farre more fauourable and honourable in Christ then it can bee to any of the elect And therefore Gods purpose in Christes punishment will far der free him from hell paines then it will any of the faithfull The proportion of the pain which Christ suffered the inward peace of the sufferer will proue the same For where the paines of hell exceed the patience of men and Angels and are no way possible to bee suffered in the weaknesse of our mortall bodies the measure of Christes paine was so proportioned to the strength of his flesh that it neither ouerwhelmed his life nor his patience And though his sweate were like bloud in his earnest prayer and Agonie yet no Scripture decideth whether that were for paine feare or zeale and that dured but a while in the Garden where as after when his afflictions and paines were at sorest he shewed no signe of shrinking either at the torments of his body or at the affliction of his minde but as the Apostle saith For the ioy set before him endured the Crosse and despised the shame not wearied nor fainting in minde but with most perfect obedience and quiet patience persisting to the ende This conflict betweene paine and patience to serue Gods glorie and obey Gods will Christ proposeth to all his members on the same condition that it was offered to his humane nature To him that ouercommeth saith he will I giue to sit with me in my throne euen as I ouercame and ââ¦it with my Father in his throne As for the consequents of hell paines it is so brutish blasphemie to affirme them of Christ that I forbeare to obiect them I haue often named them and you say you abhorre such blasphemies as well as â⦠doe that Christ so suffered hell paines But Sir you your friends must shew by the Scriptures that God hath seuered these consequents I meane reiection reprobation confusion malediction diction desperation and such like from the true paines of hell The Scripture proposeth them as necessarie and infallible consequents to the true paines of hell You will seuer them because otherwise Christ must either not suffer the true paines of hell which euerteth all your new Doctrine or he must also suffer these which the Scriptures annexe to the true paines of hell If you confesse the first that Christ did not suffer the true paines of hell the Question is well ended If you seuer these consequents from the true paines of hell shew by what authoritie of sacred Scriptures you doe it and then you may be excused from lewd and wicked presumption For if God by his word reuealed hath ioyned them together you doe or should know what sacriledge it is for your pleasure to pull them in sunder Let your Reader therefore iudge whether you can be quited from the one except you shew good warrant for the other which as yet you neither haue done nor offered to doe Your selfe graunt expresly that the wrath of God is hell indeede onely it causeth hell to be cruell yea you grant it to be sharper then hell So that we see hereby how vainely you say out of this proposition Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God for sinne I shall neuer conclude ergo he suffered the true paines of hell I haue here shewed you I trust that this followeth well seeing the wrath of God which Christ felâ⦠in his spirit was his right and proper wrath albeit he suffered not all nor the whole wrath of God nor euery part thereof iust as the damned doe Here you see your full purpose is to conclude that Christ suffred for vs the true paines of hell though it hath beene your policie to conceale so much from the Reader all this while And indeede howsoeuer you dissemble it because you can no way prooueit The death of Christes soule and the true paines of hell or of the Damned are the maine markes which you shoote at though you closely carie it in other termes which are more generall and ambiguous as the wrath of God and the punishment of sinne to keepe your Reader from discouering your foolish reasons and reiecting your wicked deuices But cough vp your conceites freely and wander not thus about a wood of words to shew your contentious spirit or at least to hide your hatefull mysteries Here you haue shewed you trust that it followeth well seeing the wrath that Christ felt in his spirit was right and proper wrath You haue shewed vs what you intend but neither here nor else where doe you shew by what grounds of reason and trueth you can inferre it Christ suffered proper wrath and that in spirit you say You neuer went about to define or describe what proper wrath is much lesse haue you any way prooued that which Christ suffered to be proper wrath And now on the sudden you bend vp your bristles and boast you haue shewed that Christ suffered the true paines of hell But by what Scriptures I pray you haue you shewed it or by what Fathers Or if you haue neither of those to deriue your doctrine from what groundes of reason haue you produced for it You haue roued ignorantly confusedly and absurdly at the sufferings of mans soule you haue filled our eares with certaine new phrases of proper verie and right wrath and vengeance for sinne but first and last you haue proued nothing nay I see not so much as any offer of proofe but a bolde proiect of trifles and termes to support your errors But I grant expresly that the wrath of God is hell Hauing shewed by sundrie Fathers the verie page before that the wrath of God is often taken for the effects thereof and so for any punishment which God inflicteth for sinne I granted that hell and all the ââ¦orments there mightiustly be called the wrath of God because they are t the sharpest effects of Gods wrath against sinne What conclude you thence ergo euerie effect or degree of Gods wrath is hell If you clamper vs such conclusions you are fitter to ring a bell than to write a booke What shew of reason hath this illation of yours The wrath of God is applied to all the paines and punishments of sinne and so by consequent to hell as to the greatest vengeance that God taketh of men or diuels for sinne Will you hence inferre hell is the greatest punishment of sinne ergo hell is all the punishment that God inflicteth for sinne or whatsoeuer God inflicteth for sinne is hell By this Logike a rotten tooth a gowtie toe a broken head or a lame legge are the true paines of hell and all men liuing and dying are in the paines of hell But you will create vs
a new compasse of hell that shall containe all that the wicked doe suffer in this life or elsewhere be it neuer so little If you will fall to creating of new helles shew your commission otherwise you may create your selfe a woorse condition than you are ware of Thinke you that any wise or godlie Reader will rest himselfe vpon such inuentions or such conclusions as these be Who can say how little or how small the paine was which Christ suffered You onely can tell how great it was for you say Christ suffered a sense of Gods wrath equall to hell it selfe and to all the torââ¦ents thereof For this if you would spare vs as well proofes as words we might at length perhaps beleeue you meant some trueth Why presume you to determine a iust equalitie in Christes sufferings to the very paines of hell vpon your owne head What Scripture teacheth you so to say Nay who can say you declaâ⦠or comprehend the infinite greatnesse of it You haue comprehended and declared the iust measure of it for you make it equall with hell And yet as constant in this as in all other things you presently adde that Christs anguish might very well be and was no doubt infinite euen in those bodily stripes and wounds whose paines otherwise were finite Where if you take infinite for great or aboue mens reach and knowledge as sometimes the word is vsed then speake you nothing to the purpose For Christes paines may be great and intolerable to vs though nothing neere the paines of hell But if you take infinite as contrarie to finite which you do in this place by opposing it to finite then infinite indeed is more than hell for the paines of hell are finite in degree though infinite in hauing no end Howbeit in the meane while you wrong the Godhead of Christ in whom nothing is infinite besides his Diuine Nature and the force thereof So that if Christ did suffer paines truely infinite his Godhead must suffer which is infinite blasphemie by reason his manhood being a creature could not nor might not suffer but that which was finite both in waight and end Such speculations you broach out of your owne brest without any likelihood of trueth or concurrence with the sacred Scriptures and then you aske Who can limit or measure the furie of Gods seuere iustice against sinne As if God who is truely infinite as well in power as in all other points did his vttermost against Christ and the creature in Christ were able to beare the brunt of the most that Gods iustice and power could inflict vpon him Such desperate vntrueths well become your sobrietie who will say any thing so you may haue some shift of words to shrowd your selfe vnder but the Scriptures will teach you that Christes sufferings were of infinite price in respect of the person who was God and man not of infinite paine which exceedeth the power and strength of all creatures I aske do you grant that Christ suffered Gods wrath in spirit as the Apostle 1. Thess. 5. distinguisheth the spirit and the soule I answere do you heare that you grosly mistake the Apostle if you make the soule and the spirit two seuerall substances in man otherwise if they be but one your question is very childish For the immortall substance of mans soule suffereth whether it be by her sense affections vnderstanding or will And this is no Sophistrie deceiuing you with the word soule but it is the recalling you to conceiue rightly of the soule of man which is an immortall and spirituall substance subiect to paine as well by her vnderstanding and sense as by her affections and will and by what other meanes soeuer it pleaseth God to punish her As for the wrath which you would haue suffered in Christs spirit when you tell vs what you meane by wrath whether the apprehension of Gods wrath against our sinne or the absolute impression of paine from the immediate hand of God or the due consideration of the case wherein Christ stood when he suffered for our sinnes which might iustly breed feare care and sorrow in his soule besides the affliction of bodily paines and anguish which his immortall and humane spirit must needs discerne and feele you shall receiue a fuller answere Till then holde vs excused if we spend not time to guesse grope after your blinde and hid fansies Howbeit whatsoeuer Christ suffered in his soule it was religious and meritorious in him I meane euen the feare sorow and smart which hee humbly obediently and patiently suffered as from the hand of God whosoeuer were the meanes and other wrath than that you shall neuer be able to proue was inflicted on Christs spirit or soule Who can say but that this was as hot and scorching as hell fire it selfe We see then your forwardnesse to haue it so but withall your foolishnesse that daunting all others as vnpriuie to Gods secrets and Christes sufferings you only take vpon you to tell vs out of your casting boxe how great and how hot the paine was which Christ suffered in soule euen as great and as hot as hell fire it selfe What dreames be these to mocke men withall and to fraight the Christian faith with As if you had of late receiued some Reuelation from heauen that Christes paine was full as hot as hell fire I will not diminish the paines which the Sonne of God suffered for our sakes but am well content to aggrauate them to the highest so farre as the Scriptures giue me any light or leading but you that extenuate his paines described in the Scriptures and deuise other paines for him as hot as hell fire no where testified by the Holy Ghost what defence can you bring for your doings Who can say no Nay who can say yea that doth not rush headlong into Gods secret counsels as you doe Be these the proofes whereon you pinne the paines of hell suffered in Christes soule Who can say they were not as hot and scorching as hell fire it selfe Frie in your follie I wish you no worse fire if I knew not your vaine I should thinke you sicker than you are I haue no doubt but Christes paine on the Crosse was proportioned to his patience which God meant to proue though not to ouerpresse otherwise the measure of his paine saue that it exceeded not the strength of his manhood as I do not know no more doeth any man liuing except hee will deceiue himselfe with his owne dreames as this Discourser doth For though we may by nature in some sort coniecture how grieuous it was for Christ to hang three houres by the woundes of his hands and feet all his bones being vnioynted yet know we not how farre the power and iustice of God made way to that paine who can by any meanes as well as without all meanes increase paine to what degree he will For my part therefore I will not meddle with
to trouble the people with that Question and therefore I rested on a knowne and confessed principle of Christian truth and faith that we inherite pollution and death from Adams flesh without resoluing whence the Soule commeth which I did refraine before the multitude to speake of And since by the Scriptures the first Adam was a figure of the second the flesh of Christ giuen for vs must be as able to clense and quicken vs as Adams flesh was to defile and kill vs. To this reason you here pike many quarrels but in the end you slide it of as else where answered Your first quarrell is that I force what I promised to forbeare euen the difficultie whence the Soule of man is deriued As though the grounds of our Faith might be doubted because that Question in former times was vndecided That we deriue flesh from Adam and haue men for the Fathers of our bodies did neuer man yet that was in his right wits call in Question were he Christian or Heretick Iewe Turke or Pagan That likewise wee deriue with our flesh pollution and death from Adam the faith of Christ rightly grounded on the Scriptures doth not suffer vs to stagger at though whence our Soules are giuen vs some haue stood perplexed You thinke it much I should deliuer the one which is the pollution of our flesh professing not to determine the other and make it in me a kind of inconstancie to vrge the propagation of the flesh with her sequels of which no Christian may doubt because I thought it not fit to trouble the people with the deriuation of the Soule But so hath the Church of Christ alwaies done it hath cleerely confessed the deriuation of sinne and death from Adam and made it necessarie for all Christian men so to beleeue though some would not hastily or could not easily resolue the doubt whence the Soule commeth If our Soules arise in Generation from Adam as well as our flesh how can your reason be good by any possibilitie The conceit that our Soules are ingendred together with the seede of our bodies is so grosse and pestilent an error and so repugnant to all authoritie Humane and Diuine and so dissident from dayly experience that I had no cause to make that a Question in Religion or therein to refraine the audience of the people Ex nullo homine generantur Animae Soules are not generated from any man saith Ambrose ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The principall facultie of the soule sayth Clemens Alexandrinus by which we haue discourse of reason is not engendered by proiection of seed Anima vtique nunquam ab homine gignentium originibus prebetur The soule neuer commeth from man in the generation of men sayth Hilarie Ierom vpon those words of Salomon the spirit of man after death returneth to God that gaue it writeth thus Ex quo satis ridendi sunt qui putant animas cum corporibus seri non à Deo sed à corporum parentibus generari Whereby they are worthy to be thorowly derided which thinke soules to be sowen together with bodies and not to be from God but to be generated by the parents of our bodies For since the flesh returneth to the earth and the spirit to God that gaue it IT IS MANIFEST that God is the Father of our soules and not Man And when Ruffinus professed he could not tell how the soule came to be ioyned with the body whether by propagation from Man or infusion from God Ierom replieth If the soule come by propagation then the soules of men which we grant are eternall and the bruit beasts which die with the bodie haue one condition And doest thou maruell that the Christian brethren are scandalized at thee when thou swearest thou knowest not that which the Churches of Christ confesse they know Theodoret in many places giueth the like testimonie The Church beleeuing the diuine Scriptures sayth the soule was and is created as well as the bodie not hauing any cause of her creation from naturall seed but from the Creatours will after the bodie once perfectly made The most diuine Moses writeth that Adams bodie was first made and afterward his soule inspired into him Againe in his lawes the same Prophet plainly teacheth vs that the bodie is first made and then the soule created and infused And blessed Iob spake thus to God Diddest thou not powre me forth like milke and thicken me like curds of cheese thou diddest clothe me with skinne and flesh and compact me with bones and sinewes And when by this Iob had shewed the frame of his bodie to be first made he addeth a thankesgiuing for his soule saying Life and mercie thou laydst with me and thy watchfulnesse preserued my spirit This confession touching the soule and bodie of man the Church hath learned from the diuine Scriptures The same reasons and resolutions he repeateth elsewhere in his fift sermon touching the nature of man Leo the great The Catholike faith doth constantly and truely preach that the soules of men were not before they were inspired into their bodies nec ab also incorporentur nisi ab opifice Deo neither are put into the bodie by any other workeman than God And Austen himselfe who to decline that difficultie how the soule commeth to be infected with originall sinne was the first that made this doubt whether the soule were created and infused or els deriued from the soule though not by the seed of the parents refuseth Tertullians opinion That the soule riseth from the seed of the bodie as peruerse and strange to the Church of Christ They sayth he which affirme soules to be drawen from the parents if they follow Tertullians opinion tooke them to be in some sort bodies corpulentis seminibus exoriri and to rise from the seed of the bodie quo quid peruersius dici potest than the which what can be sayd more peruerse Now in Austens rehearsall of heresies Tertullians assertion That the soule was a kind of bodie is excused as no heresie but his conceit That the state of the soule is propagated by traduction of seed is expresly put amongst his errours From these auncient Fathers swarue not the best of our new writers Bullinger All those other opinions haue beene refuted with sound reasons by the writers Ecclesiasticall and that receiued and auouched for the truest which teacheth the soule to be created of nothing and to be infunded into the bodie from God when the childe hath his perfect shape in his mothers womb And that we are not at this day otherwise created of God than by infunding the soule into the bodie first fashioned Iob is a most plentifull witnesse where he saith Thine hands o God haue made me and fashioned me wholly Didst thou not stroke me like milke and curd me like cheese with skinne and flesh thou coueredst me with bones and sinewes thou
sheweth that ioy sorrow hope desperation confidence feare loue hatred mercie enuie anger wrath waspishnesse rage shamefastnesse blushing staggering hastinesse humanitie morositie and such like haue their MOTIONS in the hart heating or cooling it and so dilating or contracting it more or lesse according to the differences and degrees of their impressions Zanchius a wise and worthy Diuine treating of the parts of the Body saith The second vse of the hart is to impart vitall spirits specially to the head in which the mind properly worketh and so to minister matter whence the sensitiue spirits are produced in the braine by which motion sense and cogitations are stirred The third vse of the hart is that it should also be the seate fountaine and cause of all our affections For there are in the hart two motions the one of pulse to maintaine life by the ordinary breathing in and out of the ayre the other of affection which followeth the thought of man and is made by the extraordinarie dilating of the whole hart as in ioy or compressing it as in sorow With sorow and griefe we pine away with ioy we reuiue Whereupon the hart in one affection is opened and cheered in the other it is shut and dryed Hereby we perceiue why the Scripture by the name of the hart vnder standeth the WILL and all the affections of man as by the name of the minde it noteth all the thoughts and knowledge of man Wherefore as motion sense and cogitations spring from the braine or head so all affections from the hart Then from the hart ascend to the braine vitall spirits whence sensitiue spirits are engendred By these sensitiue spirits thoughts are mooued and knowledge planted in the mind Againe those sensitiue spirits by cogitations and conceptions strike the whole hart and kindle diuers affections and raize diuers motions in it And this hath great profit in Diuinitie For besides that we vnderstand how the Soule vseth the Body and worketh by the Body two chiefe points of true godlinesse are illustrated by this Doctrine the KNOVVLEDGE and LOVE of God whence commeth obedience and the obseruance of all his commaundements For the holy Ghost sliding into our harts first lightneth the minde which worketh in the head and with that effectuall knowledge kindleth in our hart the affection of loue And from thence commeth the motion of all the parts to performe the will of God By this meanes God truely dwelleth in our mind in our hart and in our whole Body There is then neither good nor euill affection in the soule of man which is not somewhat communicated to the hart of man expressed by the very motions of the hart that the body may iustly be drawen by consenting and seruing in either to the reward and punishment of either The READY SVBIECTION of the Body to the Soule in all sinne is the last point that I mentioned of their mutuall communion For though vnderstanding and will were giuen at first with all facilitie to rule and gouerne the other powers and parts of Soule and Body yet the corruption of sinne once entering not onely diuided the Body against the Soule but euen the Soule against it selfe So that in good things this corruptible Body is now an heauie burden loading the Soule when it is lightned with grace and the inferiour and sensitiue powers of the Soule rebell and striue against the spirit which renueth the inward man of the hart Some ignorance infirmitie and selfeloue remaine still in the mind as defects till we come to the place where our knowledge and loue shall be made perfect but when we would doe good euen then the law of sinne in our members REBELLETH against the law of our mind and leadeth vs captiue to the law of sinne that is in our members The flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh and these are repugnant the one to the other so that we can not doe the things which we would For which cause the Apostle professed of himselfe that he did presse downe his body and bring it into subiection least the Body rebelling and preuailing against the spirit he should become a cast-away This sharpe and strong resistance which our earthly members make against the mind and will delighting in the law of God and guided by his spirit sheweth the willingnesse and readinesse of the flesh to conspire and ioyne with the WILL in the seruitude of sinne to make her members the weapons of vnrighteousnesse so that the will no sooner consenteth to any euill but the sensitiue and motiue powers of the Soule permixed with the bodily spirits attend with delight and forwardnesse to promote and execute ech sinfull purpose This is that greedinesse which the Apostle noteth in some to vncleannesse from which if either feare or grace restraine it is not without some sensible griefe to the flesh disappointed of her desires and lusts We see the manifest and manifold coniunction and communion of the soule with the bodie as well in good as in euill which is strange to none neither Philosophers Physitians nor Diuines but onely to this Discourser to whom all sound and true learning is strange For not onely vertues and vices are common to both but spirituall graces as faith hope and loue the soule in this life receiueth perceiueth and practiseth together with her bodie and by her body Vertue and vice saith Athenagoras can not so much as be conceiued in the soule without the bodie For the vertues that are we know to be the vertues of men as also the vices that are contrarie and not to be in the soule apart from the bodie or consisting by her selfe Of faith we said before it commeth by hearing and so doth hope since that is expected which is beleeued Touching loue God by his law commandeth himselfe to be loued with all our mind with all our heart with all our soule with all our strength not making an emptie variation of words but binding all the parts and powers of bodie and soule capable of that affection or seruiceable to it with one common duetie to perfourme him loue The soule then beleeuing and louing the promises and graces of God openeth the heart and diffuseth the spirits to accept and imbrace the goodnesse of God in like maner as she did before dilate it to entertaine the desires of earthly things and God detesting an h hard and frozen heart as voyde of all loue requireth to haue the bowels mooued towards him and the heart kindled with a vehement flame describing zeale and deuotion by the naturall motions and passions which are felt in the heart when it is affected with vehement and strong loue So in repentance the soule depresseth and humbleth the heart raising it againe with hope which before was exalted with pride and incensed with selfe loue by the same naturall meanes and motions testifying the one that she did the other
taketh by or from the bodie Cicero the father of the Latine tongue disputing of pleasure sayth resolutely Omnes iucundum motum quo sensus hilaretur Graecè ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Latine voluptatem vocant All men both in Greeke and Latine call that pleasing motion wherewith the sense is delighted Pleasure And againe In eo voluptas omnium Latinè loquentium more ponitur quum percipitur ea quae sensum aliquem moue at iucunditas That is called pleasure by the vse of all that speake Latine when any delight is felt which moueth some of the senses Plato in his Dialogue called Protagoras referreth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã gladnesse to the minde and pleasure to the bââ¦die Aristotle though he often extend the name of pleasure with some addition to other delights yet plainely confesseth the word alone signifieth bodilie pleasure ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The pleasures of the bodie haue obtained the inheritance of that name So Clemens Alexandrinus By bodily spirits a man hath SENSE and PLEASVRE And Athenagoras likewise Desires and pleasures haue their motion from the bodie Zanchius no meane Philosopher and Diuine sayth Affectuum omnium duo sunt capita voluptas dolor Pleasure and paine are the two chiefe heads of all the sensitiue affections And did not the word pleasure alone without addition signifie the delights of the senses as by these Philosophers and Diuines we see it doth yet the soule taketh no delight which the Scriptures do properly call gladnesse and ioy but she doth communicate the same to her bodie insomuch that the Scriptures expresse the delight and ioy of the soule by the mouing and leaping of the heart as it doth sorow by the shrinking and gathering together of the heart That the heart is the seat of ioy and sorow is euident by the word of God Your heart sayth Christ shall reioyce Thou hast giuen gladnesse into mine heart sayth Dauid to God And againe Wherefore mine heart reioyced And that the affection of ioy in the soule is discerned by the motion of the heart is there as manifest Mine heart leaped that is reioyced in the Lord said Anna when she had obtained Samuââ¦l at the hands of the Lord. Let not thine heart leape sayth Salomon that is reioyce not at the fall of thine enemie My heart leaped for ioy in thy saluation sayth Dauid And God promising comfort and ioy to his people sayth Their hearts shall be glad as with wine yea their heart shall leape with ioy in the Lord. Which motion Dauid ascribeth to his soule saying My soule shall leape for ioy in the Lord and the virgin Marie to her spirit where she sayth My spirit hath leaped for ioy in God my Sauiour thereby shewing that the spirit and soule of man affected with ioy and gladnesse doth raise and stirre the heaââ¦t to a sensible kinde of dilating and leaping euen as in sorow she contracteth and gathereth the heart together I wrote vnto you sayth Paul in much compression ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and shrinking of the heart that is sorow which contracteth and shrinketh the heart together A better proofe that soule and bodie do communicate together in ioy and griefe we can not haue than that life and death thereon doe depend The ioy of heart is the life of man and sorrow hath slaine manie Which Salomon confirmeth saying A ioyfull heart preserueth the bodie like a medicine but a grieued spirit drieth the bones So that all delight of the minde in sinne which you call pleasure if it affect the soule it is communicated to the bodie if it be so small that it pierceth not the soule nor moueth the heart it deserueth none of those names In examining the acts of sinne you keepe the same course that you do in the rest you light on a licentious phrase and publish that for a proofe For where I sayd all acts of sinne the soule committeth by her bodie by acts noting deeds which the soule can not performe without her bodie you tell vs the soule can act manie sinnes meerely in itselfe without the cooperation of the bodie And though I do not denie the soule hath her kinde of action in all sinne which is actuall whence the name of actuall sinne reacheth to thoughts words and dââ¦eds yet thoughts are no acts neither by the rules of Philosophie nor of Diuinitie Cicero a man no way to seeke in the true proprieties of words prescribing the maner how histories should be written saith In rebus magniâ⦠memoriáque dignis consilia primum deinde acta postea euentus expectantur In reporting of weightie matters and worthie of memorie first the counsels then the acts lastly the euents are expected Where counsels containe purposes and determinations and acts quid actum aut dictum sit what was sayd and what was done Aristotle a man too well learned to misse his termes sayth the end of speculatiue knowledge is trueth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ââ¦nd of actiue knowledge the worke Damascene noting their difference sayth n ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã We must know that an action is one thing an act is another thing And though the words be often vsed one for another by liberty of speech yet in proprietie ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã an act is the performing of the action ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã For the minde first discussing the euent then worketh by her bodie and that he defineth to be ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã an act See we not the same confirmed by the Scriptures The Acts of the Apostles written by S. Luke do they declare the secret thoughts or open words and deeds of the Apostles The Acts likewise of Councels as the Acts of the Councell of ââ¦phesus expresse they what the Bishops there inwardly thought in their minds or what they publikely spake and decreed So that the signification of the word ACTS which I followed was neither deuised nor abused by me but ââ¦our new kinde of speech that the soule ACTETH manie sinnes meerely in it selfe is a vaine and idle opposition since the soule must worke by the bodie before it can be an Act. I graunt that occasion is often taken from the outward senses But it is meerely taken by the corrupt and peruââ¦rse minde not giuen by the sensââ¦s Which though they be otherwiââ¦e corrupt yet simply in seeing naturall things they sinne not You be very like to handle a Question well when you doe not so much as vnderstand the words therein contained When it commeth in question whether in all prouocations pleasures and acts oâ⦠sinne the Soule vse her body or no you answer the mind is the principall agent in sinne and not the body as if that were any way peââ¦tinent to this mattââ¦r Who deuââ¦teth but life sense and motion come from the Soule to the body and in euery of theâ⦠the Soule
is the chiefest agent in so much that these faile when the Soule departeth from the body yet that doeth not pââ¦ooue that in all these things the Soule doeth noâ⦠vse her body You say occasion of sinne is not giuen by the senses but taken by thâ⦠ãâã Then doeth the world which onely offereth things to the senses giue lesââ¦e occaââ¦on to sinne and Saint Iohn had no cause to say All that is in the world thâ⦠ãâã of the flââ¦sh the dââ¦sire of the eyes and pride of life is not of the Father but of the world and ãâã whole world ââ¦eth in euill For the things which are in the world are the good creatures of God and by their first institution serued to show the bountie of God and to pââ¦ouoke man to thankfulnesse and expectation of better things which shall not peââ¦ish But man poysoned with sinne abuseth them all and turneth his desire and loâ⦠from God to transitorie and earthly delights And so now considering his corruption they are not onely occasions but prouocations to induce and intise him to sinne And therefore God knowing vpon the fall of Adam what snares they would become vnto Man for whose sake they were made subiected them all to vanitie calling Satan ãâã Prince and Ruler of this world for that by infecting man with sinne he had altered and iââ¦uerted the vse and ende of the whole world If then the creatures which in themselues are senselesse and altogether innocent bee now baites to drawe men from God and so made occasions of sinne how much more are the senses of man alluâ⦠ãâã sinne which not onely present these pleasures to the minde but inflame the afââ¦ctions to persue them and worke the will to imbrace them The corruption you say is properly and principally in the minde which being first sinfull abuseth their operation As if all the powers of the Soule obeying the will that is euill were not subiect and seââ¦uants to sinne as well as the minde Or the senses and affections of man rebelling against the minde and incensing the will with their delights and desires were not sinfull as well as the minde It is the Soule that taketh her pleasures of sinne as well by her senses as by her vnderstanding and to that end setteth her sensitiue powers on worke the naturall action of the vnderstanding is no more sinfull in it selfe then is the sense but the corruption of the Soule abuseth them both in their kinds to content her sinfull appetites Though then the senses bee not the very causes of sinne which resteth chiefely in the will yet since the Soule ioyneth her selfe vnto the powers of sense by them to imbrace and enioy the pleasures of this life aboue or against the loue of God at least they must be occasions of sinne if they be no more For you to affirme that the Soule committeth all acts of sinne by the body and that God did not forbid Adam to like or desire that fruite is more then strange doctrine In you nothing is strange no not new hels new heauens new deathes of the Soule and new redemptions of mankind vnknowen to the Scriptures and all the fathers of Christes Church but vnto you euerie thing is strange that fitteth not your distempered taste My words that the soule committeth all acts of sinne by her bodie what differ they from Cyprians which I cited that the spirit by the flesh performeth whatsoeuer it affecteth What diuersitie finde ye betwixt them saue that I say soule for spirit bodie for flesh all for whatsoeuer and acts for things affected my words being somewhat plainer and easier than Cyprians and for ought that I see hauing no disagreement The other words that God did not forbid Adam to like the fruit smell of your owne forge which reporteth nothing truely For to prooue that Adam transgressed the commandement with more than his minde I obserued that God did not say to Adam Thou shalt not like it which the soule of Adam did but Thou shalt not eat thereof Which precept since Adam did wholly violate it followeth he sinned with his hand mouth and not with his minde alone You clippe off that which I concluded and neglecting the affirmatiue which I adioyned you note the negatiue which I did not simplie exclude but augmented with an addition of another part that Adam sinned also with his bodie and therefore not with his soule alone or without his bodie The place of Scripture which Tertullian as you say pointeth vnto that out of the heart come euill thoughts being considered will prooue the contrariâ⦠For Christ heere meaneth not by heart any part of the bodie but meerely the minde and soule of man and that with opposition to the bodie in this case of sinning You found in your Note-booke that the heart of man is taken in the Scriptures for his will and affection moued with knowledge either from the vnderstanding or from the sense but the reason why it is so vsed you neuer read or doe not remember For if a man should aske you why the hart of man rather then his hand or his heele doth import in the Scriptures his knowledge and will what answere would you frame That it is a figure of speech without all reason or cause Such indeed are your figures but the holy Ghost vseth no such The Scriptures by the parts of mans body expresse the powers of mans soule there seating and there working as sight by the eye hearing by the eare speaking by the tongue going by the feete doing by the hand lusting by the raines and many such The very same reason causeth the hart of man to be taken in the Scriptures for his will which is seated in that part and by which all his cogitations affections and Actions are made good or euill So that the vse of the hart in the sacred Scriptures well considered doth first plainely prooue that the chiefe Seate of the Soule is the hart and next that there it worketh where it dwelleth euen in the hart and on that part impresseth all her affections resolutions when they once grow to be liked or disliked And this is so farre from opposition to the Body in cause of sinning that it doth manifestly communicate sinne vnto the Body In effect Christ saith not the Body sinneth by taking in but the Soule by sending out that is to say the Soule onely properly sinneth and not the Body at all no not in grosse facts except as the Body is the Instrument the Soule being the Agent Your exposition of our Sauiours words and your illation vpon them doe well become one the other Our Sauiour doth not say the Body sinneth not But that which goeth into the mouth or eating with vnwashed hands defileth not the man Now this must be your reason if hence you make any Eating or meate defileth not a man Ergo the Body sinneth ââ¦ot How good this argument is I leaue to
soule that without it the soule doth not sinne If by naturall dreames you would prooue the perpetuall operation of the soule euen when the bodie is at rest for celestiall dreames come not often and but to few remember first that all ages and persons do not dreame ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã It hath hapned to some sayth Aristotle that they neââ¦er dreampt in all their life Plinie and Plutarch confirme the same To some sayth he dreames happen when they grow in yeeres who before that time neuer dreamed Next in those that vse it straight vpon meat whiles sleepe is sound they dreame not but vpon distribution and reuocation of the naturall heat vp to the head Thirdly in dreames except they be from God it is certaine that mens imaginations which haue corporall spirits and seats worke as well as their minde and so the operation of the soule in sleepe is no way continuall nor excludeth the bodie though the outward and common sense be bound and oppressed with sleepe And euen the first ordaining of sleepe for man by God proueth that in meditation contemplation the spirits of the braine which are aeriall yet corporall are vsed by the soule in this life For with inward and earnest intension of the minde and vnderstanding those spirits waxe hoat and drie and therefore of necessitie must be cooled and tempered with sleepe otherwise if men lacke sleepe long frensie disturbeth both reason and remembrance By the maner of curing Lethargies Apoplexies Epilepsies Frensies and such like Galen resolutely concludeth that the discourse of reason and remembrance of sensitiue imaginations haue their seat in the bodie of the braine ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and the first instrument of the soule to all sensible and voluntarie operations is the spirit that is in the hollownesse or celles of the braine Damascene being a Diuine sayth as much The power of imagination receiuing the resemââ¦ances of naturall things from the sense deliuereth the same to the cogitation and consultation of the minde for they both are one which taking them and iudging of them sendeth them to the memorie The instrument of the cogitatiue and consultiue part of the soule ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã is the middle celle of the braine and the animall spirit that is there and the instrument of the part mââ¦moratiue is the hinder celle of the braine and the animall spirit that is in it Where the instrument is taken for the seat in which the soule worketh and obiect from whence the soule receiueth the representations of things on which she worketh If the soules operations hang so necessââ¦rily on the bodie the doubt is how she may be separated from the bodie The power by which the soule discerneth and iudgeth of things offered by sense or by reuelation is internall and essentiall so that when she is seuered she is fully possessed of that facultie as part of her nature The meanes by which she commeth to the knowledge of externall and particular things in this life are naturally her senses and spirits by which she worketh in the body supernaturally the power of God which now and hereafter lightneth the eyes of the soule and not onely continueth her knowledge here obtained but increaseth the same and representeth to the mind and conscience all things good or bad here obscured neglected or forgotten The separation of the soule from the bodie and her knowledge after this life depend not vpon her naturall power and strength but vpon the worde and hand of God who can diuide the spirit from the soule euen in this life and either take or giue both sense and reason from her or to her as pleaseth him From Nabuchodonoser God tooke all cogitation and operation of humane reason and sense hee doth the same to others when it liketh him Paul liuing was rapt into the third heauen whether in the bodie or out of the bodie he could not tell but either way was easie to God as also Iohn when he was in the bodie was willed to ascend vp to heauen and was there in his spirit his bodie not dying in the meane space whiles his spirit was absent To children that vtterly know nothing in this life God will giue exact and perfect knowledge of their States by reuealing vnto them either his mercies or their miseries In vs all God will lighten the secrets of darkenesse and as he is trueth so suffer no trueth to lie hid in his presence We shall not onely remember all the workes of our hands and counsels of our hearts which now we haue forgotten but we shall see each others deedes and thoughts which is no way possible for our naturall abilitie so farre as shall be needefull for the declaration of his iust iudgement For nothing is secret that shall not be open neither is there any thing hid that shall not be knowen and come to light Therefore neuer doubt whether the soule hauing left her naturall and corporall meanes of knowledge shall sleepe till the day of resurrection shee shall haue an other manner of knowledge then here shee had either to her euerlasting comfort or confusion She shall then perceiue and discerne the things which eye neuer sawe nor eare euer heard nor euer ascended into the heart of man here on earth Howbeit neither the separation nor intellection of the soule pertaine directly to this question I speake not of cogitations nor of operations of the soule except they be sinnefull and those cease after this life though the knowledge of the soule remaine and in this life when sense discretion or memorie doe wholy faile vnlesââ¦e it be by our owne fault as in gluttonie drunkennesse immoderate passions of loue or anger and such like there also the committing of actuall sinne faileth Further you commit two grieuous faults 1 Tertullian the principle ground which you haue for your opinion here is wonderfully ill vsed 2 you are strangely contrarie to your selfe in your verie winding vp of the matter It seemeth that Tertullian cited before the reason of the Heretikes holding that the soules slepââ¦ââ¦ill the day of iudgement and receaued no reward at all in the meane time for want of the societie of their flesh but Tertullian answereth and renounceth all the same And so those were the Heretikes words against Tertullian which you alleage out of him in steede of Catholikes It is no fault in you to reade so loosely and erre so grossely that you see neither Tertullians intent methode nor proofes but wilfully taking the words that are his owne anâ⦠common to him with the rest of the ancient and Catholike Fathers as if they were the wordes of Heretikes to blurre him and the rest with the spot of heresie when they speake a trueth receiued and beleeued in the Church of Christ. It seemeth you say Tertullian cited the reasons of the Heretikes houlding the soule slept till the last iudgement It is past
himselfe you make him say the soule is sufficient by it selfe to do the lesse for it is able of it selfe only to thinke to will to desire to dispose Where the word solummodo ONLY which is added to the Verbes following you cut from them with a point and ioyne it to the Pronoune precedent saying it is able of it selfe only meaning without the body thereby to exclude the bodie from all communion and impression of the thoughts which Tertullian before did impart to the bodie And thus by wresting Tertullians words you make him cââ¦ntrarie to himselfe because he should not seeme contrarie to you which is the couââ¦se of your vnlearned skill vsed euery where by you when any thing standeth in your way Otherwise Tertullians words are plaine enough after his maner and no way repugnant to that which went before but haue in them rather an exposition what seruice and subââ¦ction the bodie yeeldeth to the soule in sinne without which the soule can accomplish no sinne For though desire cogitation and will are in the soulâ⦠as her owne and come from the soule to begin euery sinne yet she can perfâ⦠no sinne without her bodie Likewiâ⦠your colââ¦ection out of Tertullian that the soule now without the flesh receiuââ¦th iââ¦gement for such actions as of it selfe it was sufficient to doe hath neither any trueth in it nor concordance with your authors sense or words for Tertullian confidently pronounceth that the iudgement of God must be beleeued to be FVLL FINALI and PERPETVALL none of which agree to the iudgement that you pretend for the actions of the soule alone without the bodie It is NOT FVLL because the one halfe of man is absent it is NOT FINALL because an other iudgement and sentence shall follow after it is NOT PERPETVALL because it dureth but till the resurrection when both soule and bodie shall be cast into euerlasting fire it is NOT GENERALL because such of the wicked as liue when Christ shall come to iudge the quicke and dead shall not haue their soules punished apart from their bodies This doctrine therefore is verie false that sinnes mââ¦erely spirituall as you terme them namely Heresies Turcisme and Atheisme shall not be punished in or after the last iudgement when the bodie shall be reunited to the Soule because their punishment the soule alone must suffer since she alone committed them as you say without any consent or communion of her bodie Neither doth Tertullian call this punishment of the soule without the bodie simplie or absolutely IVDGEMENT but the TASTE or SHEVV of iudgement Hilarie saith rightly of it The day of iudgement is the repaying of eternall ioy or paine The time of death in the meane space hath euery one tied to his state dum ad iudicium vnumquemque aut Abraham reseruat aut poena Whiles either Paradise or punishment keepeth euery man for iudgement So Tertullian Cur non putes animam puniri foueri in inferis sub expectatione vtriusque iudicij in quadam vsurpatione candida eius Why shouldest thou not thinke the Soule to be comforted and punished below in the earth vnder the expectation of either iudgement of eternall happinesse or cursednesse in a kind of vsurping and foreshewing thereof That Tertullian here calleth degustans iudicium a foretasting of iudgement but no full finall perpetuall or generall sentence which are the properties of Gods iust iudgement against all sinnes of thoughts words or deeds Tertullian confesseth that the Soule doth not diuide all her works with the ministerie of the flesh and that the Diuine censure doth pursue the onely thoughts and bare Wills of men And therefore he saith Sensus delictorum etiam sine affectibus imputari solent anime The very purposes or desires of sinne without their effects are imputed vnto the Soule When Tertullian speaketh of sinne committed by the Soule alone without the Body or the helpe thereof he meaneth without any EXTERNALL PART of the Bodie concurring thereto as in outward facts when hands or feete or other members of the Body are imployed to bring the sinne to a sensible act and effect Take his owne example in both these places Qui viderit ad concupiscendum iam adulterauit in corde He that seeth a woman to desire her hath committed adulterie in his hart Is any man so childish as to thinke the Soule can see or desire a woman without corporall sense or concupiscence There is then in that case plainly the concurrence of the eyes and affections which are bodily but yet because the Act is not accomplished the sinne remayneth in the hart alone and proceedeth not vnto the DEEDE And so diuiding sinnes into thoughts words and deeds as Saint Austen and other Diuines doe when words and deeds are forborne they often say that men sinne in thoughts alone but this doth not exclude the inward coniunction and communion of the Soule with the Body in sinne which is denied to be corporall because it is not open to the sense Notwithstanding the powers of the Soule vsed therein are permixed with the spirits of the Body which are corporall in comparison of the Soule though spirituall in respect of the grossenes of the flesh in that they are aeriall and approch the nature and purenes of ayre to which the word spirit is vsually applyed So that the diuerse taking of the Body sometimes for the outward masse of flesh subiected to sense sometimes for the inward powers of life and sense tempered with the body causeth this difference of speech in Tertullian and the rest of the fathers who all concurre in this that except the body haue life and sense the Soule can commit no actuall sinne For we must not onely be liuing but awaked and aduised before wee can voluntarily runne into sinne Of sleepe which bereaueth vs of sense I haue spoken before of death which taketh life from vs it is also certaine that thereby sinne ceaseth in vs. He that is dead is freed from sinne saith the Apostle that is sinneth no more so Chrysostome expoundeth it ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã He that is dead is deliuered from sinning any more And Ierom. Mortuus omnino non peccat The dead doth by no meanes sinne Ambrose Impius si moriatur peccare desinit The wicked when he dieth ceaseth to sinne Epiphanius In the next world after a man is dead there is no righteousnesse nor repentance ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã nor any workes of sinne For as Hilarie obserueth Decedentes de vita simul de iure decedimus voluntatis When we depart this life we are withall cut off from all libertie of Will Theophylact. The Apostle speaketh thus of euery man For he that is departed from this life is iustified from sinne to wit he is loosed and deliuered from it Our new writers affirme no lesse Bullinger This is a generall Rule the dead doth not sinne at all yea he
which yet is no way prooued that Christ suffered some parts of the curse in his whole manhood will you thence inferre that he suffered the whole curse By what hold-fast hangeth this together but by your headynesse that will say any thing If a man should thus reason Paul with his whole manhood wrote part of the Scriptures Ergo hee wrote the whole Scriptures or Nymrod and his companie laboured with all their might and skill to build part of the Tower of Babel Ergo they built the whole tower of Babel notwithstanding God skattered them would you not deride these reasons Yours is as ridiculous In other respects this suffering of Christ may ââ¦ell be called the whole curse or punishment of sinne Your other respects since you thinke them not worth the repeating I thinke them lesse worth the refuting If you haue said ought before touching this matter I haue not left it vnsifted and as you send mee to prie after your proofes I send you to toote after my answeres Onely this is worth the noting that where you referre your selfe to your eleuenth page among others I finde nothing there to this purpose but that you say namely of Reiection malediction and dereliction o In Christ could vtterly be none of these and here you say the whole Malediction of sinne and of the Law was truly and properly suffered by Christ. Such graces you haue to declare your meaning by plaine Contradictions Marke if our publike Doctrine be not the same Diram execrationem suscepit I marke well enough how you wrest and wrong the Catechisme to force it to your error The Chatechisme saith that kind of death was aboue all others execrable and detestable which yet Christ chiefly would suffer for vs that he might receaue that grieuous Curse which our sinnes had deserued on him selfe and so quite vs from it That kinde of Death which all men iustly detested and abhorred Christ would chiefly chuse that thereby he might receaue on himselfe the grieuous Curse that was due to vs and so quench it The Catechisme then graunteth this was all the kinds of Death that Christ suffered for vs which because it was full of shame and paine he calleth a greeuous Curse or punishment What is this to the whole Curse of the Law in which the death of the Soule by want of grace and the death of the damned which is the second death are comprised You would faine haue all men of your mind and that maketh you thinke euery man speaketh in your sense otherwise the Catechisme if you peruert it not is cleere enough from your conceits of hell inflicted by Gods immediate hand on the Soule of Christ though it talke sometimes of things not altogether so fit for Childrens vnderstanding And had the Catechisme gone farder to mention other degrees of our Curse yet so long as in se suscepit is not precisely to suffer the same but to vndertake and to discharge all that is due to vs Christ might well and did take vpon him in his Body to pay the Price and amends of our whole Curse but not to suffer all the parts thereof which were spirituall and eternall death though he gaue Recompence and satisfaction euen for those when he quited vs from them After this you thinke it strange that I say Christ suffered and dyed iustly and was hanged on the Tree by the iust sentence of the Law and that so he was by imputation of our State and Condition vnto him sinnefull defiled hatefull and Accursed You coyne so many fresh and false presumptions and positions that I thinke nothing strang in you so you may flie to a Phrase or cast a countenance on the matter at the last Howbeit I take indeede these two positions of yours to be very contumelious and iniurious to the person and death of Christ and no way iustifiable by the sacred Scriptures And therefore you had neede looke to your proofes that they be sound a needlesse reproch to the Sonne of God is some sinne I can tell you All which I auouch because he vndertooke by Gods ordinance as our Surety to receaue our condemnation vpon him so far as his ownâ⦠nature and condition could possibly admit If vouching were proouing this matter were at an end but it will cost more then hoate liquor before all this be rightly concluded out of the Scriptures You soake it out from a poore similitude of a Surety ioyntly bound with the Debtor to pay the whole and the vââ¦ry same in which the Debtor is condemned but the word of God will allow you no such Thraldome in Christs Suertiship much lesse our whole Condemnation to be any way possible in his person He discharged he whole from vs that is as well spirituall as eternall death and satisfied for both by a iust exchange but he suffered neither of them because the Sonne of God by no rule of Gods Iustice could be voide of grace nor condemned to euerlasting fire as we most iustly were You did well therefore to bind your owne Similitude to a Post least it should fall on the Rocks of open heresie and blasphemie but your restraining of it least it should be both false wicked sheweth the ââ¦tude to haue no iust ground in the word of God though some Resemblance thereof may be tolerated so long as iâ⦠is not vrged to conclude any more then the Scriptures confesse For similitudes in Gods causes are so farre alââ¦owed as they are exprâ⦠applied by the spirit of tââ¦h and no ââ¦arder otherwise by pretence of a Parable we may prooue what we list but you were best deuide your Assertions and so we shall the sooner dispatch them Agââ¦st my Assââ¦on yoâ⦠say by no sentââ¦nce of the Law Christ hanged on a Tree I say so still For the sentence of the Law peââ¦mitting or prescribing men to ââ¦e hanged touched no man besides the offender and not him but vpon desert iustly prooued before them that had the exââ¦on of the Law in charge ââ¦hus Christ was not hanged but most iniuriously ouerwhelmed with the outââ¦ies and tumult of the people when the Iudge professed him innocent as indeede he was before God and Man I answere to dââ¦e for sinne was a necessarie part of the generall Cursâ⦠vpon all sinners And I reply you know not what you answââ¦e The Law of Moses appointed death to no Man by the course of nature but by the violent hands of others that were Magistrates The Naturall death which followeth all men was inflicted by Gods owne voice on Adam in Paradiââ¦e as a punishment of sinne and is irreuocably inherited by all Adams Children not by the sentence of Moses Law which came more then two thousand yeeââ¦es after Adams fall but by the order of Gods Creation which deriued from the Parents to the Children the branches as well of obedience as disobedience The sentence of Moses Law Decreed not death against all offences though it pronounced the Curse
was most willing and able to make recompence to God for our sinnes by the dignity and innocencie of his person which we could not And who but you concludeth a Mediatour and Redeemer to be guiltie of their sinnes for whom he maketh mediation and Redemption If a man intreat pardon for a theefe or a traytor vpon repentance and satisfaction for the wrong shall he by your Diuinitie be a theefe and a traitour as well as the prisoner If it were not lawfull for Princes to pardon then were it vnlawfull for others to aske it but in afââ¦oording mercie where repentance is promised and none wronged Princes shew the power and right of their swordes in Gods steed as well to accept the penitent where they please as to reuenge the obstinate Shall it not then be much more iust with God in whose only will and hand is the supreame power of all things to release his wrath and pardon his prisoner vpon repentance and recompence offered to his iustice How can any suffer at Gods hand except he be reputed sinnefull For such as were his owne Christ might suffer and be no way touched with any guilt of their sinne but rather accepted with God and honored with men for the greatnesse of his mercy and charitie And if he be no good shepheard that flieth to saue his owne life and leaueth his flocke to the woolfe but the goodnesse of a shepheard is tried as our Sauiour saith by ventring his life for his sheepe how commeth it into your braines to make Christ a sinnefull and hatefull shepheard for giuing his life for his sheepe We ought saith Saint Iohn to lay downe our liues for our brethren Shall that wrappe vs vs within the guilt of other mens sinnes or rather commend our obedience to God when we venter our liues our dueties so requiring to preuent other mens harmes But God himselfe you will say doth not punish in this case and therefore he holdeth vs not guiltie As though an haire of our heads could fall without Gods appointment and decree or he would accept it as his seruice if it made vs sinfull What rude and lewd ignorance is it to make that sinfull in Christ which is commended to vs by his example and commanded vs for his loue and the good of others The Iewes sacrifices the expresse figures of Christ do most liuely set out this thing When they were brought vnto God the people must lay on their hands vpon the heads of the beasts shewing thereby that their sinnes were put vpon the sacrifice and that God so accounted them indeed to be As your doctrine is most vnsauerie so your proofs be most vnsound your fansies are so fraighted with falshood that you can not almost speake a trueth To what end the bringers of Sacrifices did lay their hands on the heads thereof is not expressed in the Scripture though you boldly auouched it by the example of the Scape-goat on which the high Priest alone imposed his hands In peace-offerings of thanksgiuing where was no mention of sinne as well as in burnt offerings and sinne offerings the people layed their hands on the heads of their sacrifices and in sinne-offerings the laying on of their hands might be a confession of the fault which they were guilty of or of their desert that they were worthie to die or of their faith in looking to be saued from their sinnes by the bloud of the true Sacrifice which should purge them from all their vncleannesse The Scape-goat which you make a president for all other Sacrifices but very falsely was not slaine at all and had no hands layd on him saue the high Priests alone and liuing caried away the sinnes of the people into a land not inhabited What resemblance hath this with the bloudie sacrifice of Christ for sinne or what comparison can you make betweene them but by contrarieties The other bloudie Sacrifices which vndoubtedly were figures of Christ teach no such thing as you imagine but rather plainly confute it For as in nature they were not capable of the guilt but onely of the paine of sinne which is death so in vse they were holy and in their reference to the true sacrifice accepted for the sinnes of men And because you now admit them to be expresse and liuely figures of Christ which in the beginning you denied resolue your Reader whether they were defiled and hatefull to God or no. The Scripture sayth of them they were most holy and accepted as offerings of a sweet sauour vnto God And if the figuratiue Sacrifices when they did beare the sinnes of transgressors were not defiled therewith but most holy and accepted to God what true Christian will endure your vncleane thoughts and words that the Sonne of God was defiled with our sinnes and hatefull to God for them when he assumed them to abolish them by the shedding of his bloud and to purge vs from all pollution of flesh and spirit Neither trust to your termes of imputation to saue you from impietie of heart and mouth our sinnes were imputed to Christ to beare the burden of them in his bodie that is to be chastiââ¦ed for them but not to be defiled with them or guiltie of them much lesse to be hatefull to God and truely accursed for them The comparison of Christ with a Suretie is neither a simple similitude as you simplie call it neither is it vncleane but a ââ¦olie and sit representation of Christes paying our debt for vs. Christes vndertaking our cause and paying our debts in farre more ample and pleasing maner to God then we were able I no way reiect or reproue it is the ankââ¦r and holde of our saluation but that you bound him thereto by a single similitude of a Suretie who could not be bound farther then his owne loue and liking did leade him I did and do mislike and say if you take not heed thereto it breedeth a peââ¦tilent and perniââ¦ious heresie For it is most certaine that long before the manhood of Christ was conceiued the second person in Trinity vndertooke our redemption and in that respect the true and eternall God euen from the beginning professed himselfe to be our Redeemer I am sure sayth Iob that my Redeemer liueth Thou hast redeemed me ô Lord God of trueth sayth Dauid Of the Israelites he likewise sayth When he slew them they sought him and remembred that God was their strength and the most high God their Redeemer He that made thee sayth Esay thine husband whose name is the Lord of hosts and thy Redeemer the holy one of Israel shall be called the God of the whole world And againe Thou ô Lord art our Father our Redeemer thy Name is for euer and euer And lest any should diuert this to the deliuerance out of Egypt which was a figure of their true redemption from sinne and Satan Dauid saith The Lord redeemeth the Soules
them and shew them and Christ must either confesse that he could not see so farre which would argue him to be feebler and weaker in power then the Tempter and so not the Sonne of God or els be pleased to see whatsoeuer Satan could shew which was easier for him to see that was God and man then for Satan to shew that was but a reprobate angell and could doe nothing sauing what was permitted Whatsoeuer the meanes were by which Christ did see that which was shewed Histories are not Visions him it is euident that the Scripture directeth vs to a sensible view taken of earthly things and places and not to a vision much lesse to a cogitation For to what end was Christ caried to an exceeding high mountaine if he did behold those things but in thought and by a vision Cogitations and visions need no hilles and therefore that circumstance expressed by the Euangelists refuteth your dreame of spirituall cogitations And so doth the danger whereto Satan perswaded our Sauiour to put himselfe by falling from the pinnacle of the Temple to see whether the Angels would beare him vp from dashing his foot against a stone What danger of dashing his feet against the stones could there be in a cogitation without an action And as for visions besides that the Scriptures vse to distinguish dreames and visions from histories and actions what visions could the diuell shew Christ except they were delusions And that Christ would suffer him to delude his spirit is far more incredible than that he would be content to see what Satan could shew But though the maner may be darke vnto vs yet is the matter euident that Satan with the shew of earthly glory would haue allured Christ to accept the kingdome of the earth at his hands Now the eyes were the greatest prouocations that Satan could vse in that case since all Christes cogitations were righteous and holy despising all carthly honour and pompe as vaine and transitorie and if the eye could not be affected therewith the minde of Christ was farther from embracing it b Dââ¦fenc pag. 83. li 26. I must needs thinke that as Satan was a subtile spirit so he could and did sometime spiritually suggest temptations into Christes heart and yet vtterly without all sinne which we at no hand can doe because we are all naturally apt and inclining to euill as Christ was not Satan could impresse no euill in Christs heart And I must needs thinke that you neither vnderstand what a temptation is nor what detestation of sin was in the Soule of Christ that you make him willingly subiect his heart to the motions and suggestions of Satan vnto euill For a thinking vpon euill to detest it or disswade it was common to Christes humane soule with the best saints of God and euen with the elect Angels and was the worke of Gods spirit but an inward temptation to euill that is a persuasion or motion of the heart to sinne Christ needed not admit without his owne consent since the Prince of this c Iohn 14. world had nothing in him and could not giue way to any such prouocation without corruption of sinne In that you attribute more to Satans subtiltie than to Christes power and integritie being both God and man and in his humane soule endued with the fulnesse of the Holy Ghost you shew your selfe a good Proctor for the Diuell that giue him abilitie to inuade the soule of Christ and to impresse in him most sinfull and wicked cogitations which you call spirituall because they proceeded from the spirit of error and infidelitie not remembring or not beleeuing that Christ was Lord ouer Satan and displaced him from such as he formerly possessed and preserued his Disciples as well from the subtiltie as furie of Satan that in the end they might tread him vnder their feet If then Christ could and did d 1. Iohn 3. dissolue the works of the Diuell and e Acts 10. heale all that were oppressed of the Diuell because he was anointed with the Holy Ghost and with pââ¦wer how could the diuell at his pleasure instill perfidious presumptuous and blasphemous thoughts into the heart of Christ Which if Christ were willing to admit they could not but infect him with sinne if he were vnwilling and yet forced to endure them that infirnitie and miserie subiecting him to the perpetuall motion of sinne in his owne heââ¦rt nothing differeth from our naturall corruption when we dissââ¦nt from the ââ¦nticements thereof by the guiding of Gods spirit f Defenc. pag. 83. li. 30. Yea the Text to the Hebrewes seemeth to proue it also Christ was tempted in all things like vs without sinne Then was he tempted both outwardly and also meerely within for so ââ¦re we A light shew of Scââ¦ipture will serue you to make a flourish for your fansies In the begining of this very Page g Li. 6. You graunted in vs that where the mind conceaued any Temptation there of necessitiâ⦠must be concupiscence and corruption of the flesh which in Christ might not ââ¦e Now you turne round and will haue Christ outwardly and inwardly Tempted in all things like to vs and doe not see that if this Temptation be in all points lââ¦ke to ours then musâ⦠Christ haue concupiscence and corruption of the flesh by this consequent of yours euen as we haue Or if you confesse therein a difference betwixt vs and Christ because inward Temptations in vs though we by grace diââ¦ent from them are sinnfull as proceeding from the corruption of our harts which in Christ can not be then doe you falsely and against your own knowledge vrge this place of Scripture to proue that Christ was tempted meerely within as we are Whereââ¦ore the words of the Apostle are very true that Christ was tempted in all things that is tried with all kinds of externall aââ¦ictions and vnsinfull affections as we are but as for the internal motion and prouocation of the hart to sinne which is in vs that could not be in Christ because the Apostle in expresse wordes excepteth from Christ all communââ¦on of sinne with vs. h Defenc. pag. 83. li. 33. This was meerely by conceauing and considering of Satans wicked spirituall motion in his spirit which it was pââ¦ssible he might dââ¦e without any yeelding thereto The conceauing The heart suggesting euill sinneth and considering of Satans motion to sinne is no sinne but for our harts to suggest wicked motions and perswasions to sinne either of themselues or as Satans Instruments when our spiââ¦ts diââ¦ent that is the naturall and sinfull corruption of our flesh which we can not auoide and yet is it sinne neuerthelesse in vs though it be inborne and inuoluntary What then was it for Christ when Satan had no power ouer him nor right in him to make his hart of his owne accord the diuels Instrument to suggest wicked cogitations and perswasions vnto him as you defend in this place he
saying o Mark 9. Thou dumbe and deafe spirit come out of him and enter no more into him So that the diuell cannot inwardly torment the bodie of man or beast but he must enter it and so possesse it How much lesse can he torment the soule or worke therein but he must likewise possesse it and haue it in his power before he can afflict it The entring and possessing of mens bodies and soules by diuels are no such infernall sâ⦠ãâã as you would make them they are the caueats and admonitions of Christ himselfe p Matth 12. When an vncleane spirit sayth he is gone out of a man and returning sindeth his house whence he came out emptie he taketh vnto him seuen other spirits worse then himsele and they enter in and dwell there and the end of that ââ¦an is worse then the beginning And q Luke 11. when a strong man armed keepeth his house the things which he possesseth are in peâ⦠So that the Scriptures warne vs to haue Christ dwelling in our hearts by faith lââ¦t the diuell finde them emptie and so enter aud possesse them Now touching your Iuniper conceits that Satan inwardly did worke or stirre in Christes heart those strange temptations which you talke of which indeed were wicked and impious cogitations or that he did torment the soule of Christ with the paines of the damned what Scripture I pray you doth warrant these worse then infernall speculations For the diuels themselues confessed they had nothing to doe with Christ and you make them the raisers of strange temptations in Christes heart and inflictors of incomprehensible sorrowes on Christes soule And where they truly acknowledged that Christes word and power tormented them you haue deuised that the diueâ⦠should vnspeakably torment Christ on the Crosse. So lawfull is it for you and vsuall with you to take the fulnesse of power and grace from Christ and to subiect his soule and spirit to Satans subtiltie t Defenc pag. 85 li 9. Notwithstanding this heere I ãâã that howsoeuer the meanes or maner was of Saâ⦠and his furious bands assaulting of Christ on the Crosse it made certainly an impression of most ãâã sorrow and torment in his soule Your single and double vouchers with certainty and warranty are so rise that no wise man will take your word for a grey goââ¦e quill You auouch it and you are certaine of it but how proue you one line or letter of all that here you say Christes stripes and wounds receiued of the Iewes were painfull to him and the taunts mocks and blasphemies of all sorts vttered against him were gââ¦euous vnto him but what is this to the most dolefull and incomprehensible torments inflicted on Christes soule as you say you be assured by the diuell The Euangelists expresse what was done and sayd to Christ on the Crosse that you disdaine as grosse and in your curious but irreligious subtilitie will haue the diuell not only tempt inwardly the spirit of Christ with strange and most wicked cogitations for the diuell hauing by your doctrine power and choise what he would suggest would forbeare no wickednesse but incomprehensibly torment the soule of Christ and when you should make proofe thereof you tell vs you auouch it was certainly so s Defenc pag. 85. ââ¦i 12. Christ felt and discerned by that meanes the verie stroke of Gods owne hand vpon him and receiued the sting of his wrath and indignation therein which then wrought and was reuealed chiefly then vpon him for all our sinnes Meane you that Christ felt the stroke of Gods owne hand by the temptations or by the torments which Satan offered to his soule If by temptations besides that you giue S. Iames the lie who sayth t Iames 1. God tempteth no man with euill you make God with his owne hand to moue and prouoke Christ to wickednesse which is more then infernall wickednesse to auouch If you meane by torments those you teach must come from the immediate hand of God vpon the soule of Christ and will you make the diuell to be Gods immediate hand Choose here whether all your graue discourse at your first entrance into this question of the soules proper and immediate suffering shall be wholy idle and vtterly false or whether the diuell shall be Gods immediate hand Gods immediate hand is his eternall diuine and almighty power which if you admit the diuell to be I must confesse all my speculations beleeuing but one God and him to be most pure and holy are plaine and grosse in respect of your new found hell and your eternall and almighty Ruler thereof the diuell As for proofe I should wrong you to aske for any it is not your maner to vouchsafe to proue what you say but to say what you list vnder certaine generall stales of words which are but dennes of theeues to rob Christ of his sanctitie and glorie What Christ discerned in his sufferings is neuer like to come from you with any trueth you follow your fansies so much as your best guides which leade you to a sidelesse and bottomlesse pit of absurd dreames and doctrines You distinguish nothing you define nothing you proue nothing onely you wallow in the mire of strange temptations and most dolefull and incomprehensible sorrowes how why or what you can not tell but the hand of God serueth you at all assayes to bring out your misborne and misshapen speculations vnder some shew of religion because you pretend the power of God For my part what the Scriptures euidently auouch of Christes sufferings that I faithfully beleeue what is deuised or added by mens imaginations and fictions I vtterly reiect not as false and presumptuous only but as absurd and irreligious What the Scriptures say Christ discerned in his sufferings I haue often specified which farre differeth from your strange and imaginary speculations They auouch of Christ that he u Acts 2. saw God alwaies at his right hand that he should not be shaken and therfore his heart was glad and his tongue reioyced And x Heb. 12. for the ioy proposed vnto him and therefore discerned by him he endured the crosse and despised the shame thereof Christ himselfe after his last supper y Ioh. 18. knowing all things that should befall him and that z Ioh. 13. his houre was come that he should depart out of this world vnto the Father and that the Father had giuen all things into his hands and that he was come from God and went to God not onely pronounced the diuel for all his comming against him a Ioh 14. had nothing in him but speaking directly of his passion said b Ioh. 17. Father the houre is come glorifie thy sonne that thy sonne may glorifie thee as thou hast giuen him power ouer all flesh that hee might giue them life euerlasting I haue glorified thee on earth and now Father glorifie me with thy selfe with the glorie which I had with thee
So that in all his Infirmities affections Temptations and afflictions he was still free from sinne which may be the Apostles mââ¦aning in the laââ¦r place to note that how diuââ¦rs soeuer Christs Temptations were yet he was tempââ¦d in all things without sinne Then all such feares and sorrowes as hââ¦ue in them any doubt or distrust of Gods fauour aud Christs Saluation are vtterly excluded from him by the Apostles owne limitations and therefore you loose but your labour by pretence of these words to bring Christ within the compasse of your ãâã feares and sorrowes a Defenc pag. 86. ãâã 2â⦠Hereto ââ¦erueth our publike Doctrine Diram execrationem in se suscepit You handle the ãâã as you doe the Scriptures and Fathers turning them from their right What Christ ãâã for ãâã sense to serue your priuate Doctrines Christ vndertook our curse saith the Caââ¦isme what then Christ vndertooke all our sinnes and all the punishment due vnto them not to ãâã it in the same kinde but to dissolue it in his Person and to discharge vs of it Yea he vndertooke our reiection confusion and damnation to satisfie them not to beare them to clâ⦠them not to beare them So that hence you may conclude a Satisfaction and dissolution made by Christ of all these things that were due to vs but you may not inferre that he was vtterly reiected inwardly confounded or eternally condemned as we should haue beene and the damned are Againe he tooke vpon him the Satisfaction and recompence of all our sinnes and paines But where Saint Peterââ¦aith Christ bare our sinnes in his Body on the Tree and Saint Paul saith b ãâã ãâã 2. Christ ãâã things in ãâã and things in heauen by the bloud of his Crâ⦠and reconâ⦠c ãâã 2. vs in the Body of his flesh Christ vndertooke then to abolish our curse and condââ¦tion but in the Body of his flesh where he reconciled vs vnto God So that you must bring ãâã words out of the Catechisme before your Doctrine will ãâã ãâã drawen And by your leaue I take the Catechisme permitted to be taught in Schooles but not Authorized for the publike Doctrine of this Realme Neither are you the Man that so much respect authoritie farre more publike then this where it sorteth not with your fansies But here you haue caught a word or two that may be misused and that is the cause the Catechisme is so much magnified by your priuate Authoritie as to be the publike Doctrine of this Realme Which I speake not to disgrace the Booke but to make difference betwixt your verdict and the Iudgement of the whole Realme d Defenc. pag. 87. li. 7. You might haue giuen a good sense of my words if you had any mind ãâã as of those generall and large words of the Scripture whereupon I grounded my selfe It is more then time we should yeelde such a ghest as you are the same submission and reuerence that we giue to the Sacred Scriptures specially when you abuse the words of the holy Ghost to your priuate vnsound conceits In the word of God I am bound to looke to the meaning of the Writer who could not erre and therefore howsoeuer the words if they were another mans might be reiected yet in the Scriptures they are to be receaued with all Religion because he endited them that is ââ¦e Spirit of truth and he hath a found and euident Doctrine in them though we vnderstand it not And therefore we must seeke to other places of like sense or more light that we may learne the meaning of the holy Ghost Expect you the like dââ¦tie when you deââ¦iue your sullaine and vnsauorie fansies by false and loose consequents from the words of holy write as if you were not bound to beware how you abuse the Scriptures but we must looke on and hold our peaces whiles you peruert the words of the Prophets and Apostles at your pleasure You made a number of false Propositions and Conclusions without all waââ¦ant of the word of God as e Trea pa. 46. li. 10. Thus doe the members of Christ suffer therefore of nâ⦠ãâã Christ our head suffered the like yea farre greater terrors of God and assaults of the diuell And so you Reason f Ibid ãâã 32. pag. 47. li. 1. which can not be refuted by the witte of Man ãâã ãâã vs not but wherein he had experience of our Temptations but he succoureth ãâã in these ãâã Temptations of feeling the sorrowes of hell Therefore he himselfe haâ⦠experience of the sââ¦me Where to shew your witte you ioyne an affirmatiue conclusion ââ¦o a negatiue maior and in defiance of all truth and reason you make this childish and ignorant manner of reasoning to be irrefutable And so your pleasant Electuaâ⦠that g Trea pag. 45 li. 33. of all absurditiââ¦s this is the greatest that meere men should suffer more deepely and more bitterly the sorrowes and paines of hell then Christ did All these you build vpon this foundation Christ was h Heb. 4. Tempted in all things after alikenââ¦sse but without sinne noâ⦠that ââ¦he ââ¦is any such intention or direction in the Apostles words but that you will makâ⦠such a Construction of them and no man must say nay To let you see your folly and ãâã iu this point I i Coââ¦lus pa. 283. shewed you many corporall paines and sorrowes and likewise many spirituall which Christ neuer felt as touching the causes and obiects of those afflictions though I did not exempt him from the generall sense of those affections In the Body of Man I named blindnesse dumbnesse lamenesse sicknesse breaking of bones burning of fire and such like which Christ neuer suffered and yââ¦t in all these he can and doth succour others In the Soule I reckned blindnesse and hardnesse of hart vnbeliefe desperation frensie and vexation with diuels all which Christ hath often cured and healed and readily can though he were neuer plunged into these as men are Wherefore your maine and immooueable Collection out of the Apostle as you dreame that Christ succoureth vs not but wherein he had experience of the same was a blind and false inââ¦sion of yours vtterly mistaking the Apostles words and meaning To this what reply you k Defenc. pag. 87. li. 18. The Apostle and ãâã both doe speake of the sufferings of mankind in generall and of each part of nature apt to suffer but not of euery particular in each of them or which each meeteth withall You are where you would be when you and the Apostle goe hand in hand as you make your selfe beleeue though you come nothing neere the Apostles speech oâ⦠sense Then since it sufficeth for the truth of the Apostles words that Christ felt feare sorrow shame paine and death which are common to all men and there was no neede that Christ should haue all the same causes of feare sorrow shââ¦me and paine which euery man hath or may
admitted by him there could be no want of grace no fainting of Faith no decrease of hope but he must conceaue and discerne both Gods counsels and deeds rightly without mistaââ¦ing either the purpose of the punisher or the measure of the paine in the purgation of our sinnes For he can not lie who gaue this Testimonie that y Iohn 18. Iesiâ⦠knâ⦠ãâã that ââ¦la come vnto him and that z Iohn 13. handsââ¦efore ââ¦efore his ââ¦assion which prooueth as well his voluntarie submission as his full power to moderatâ⦠all his owne sufferings which he could stay but would tast for the preseruing of his Fathers Iustice. a Defenc. pag. 89. ãâã 3â⦠You graunt his body sufââ¦ered truely punishments for sinne Therefore his Soule might suffer alââ¦o euen those of the extreamââ¦st degree If you ment to deale plainly you would distinguish the nature of the punishment the measure of the paine and the purpose of The nââ¦e measââ¦re and purââ¦ose of Chââ¦ists sufferingâ⦠the Inflictour in all which Christ differed much from the damned For first you no way prooue that any kinde of paine mentioned in the Scriptures to be laid on the damned was found in Christs Soule or Body Secondly the paines of the damned passe the Patience of all Men and Angels and much more the weakenesse and frailtie of mortall flesh Lastly the purpose of God in laying the burden of oursinn es vpon his owne Sonne was not to dishonor him or to forsake him or to execute vengeance on him prepared for the wicked but to take recompence from him for all our sinnes in such sort as better pleased the holinesse and Iustice of God then if eternall damnation had beene inflicted on vs. So that I see no one point wherein the damned agree with Christ by the verdict of the holy Scriptures onely he felt sharpe and bittââ¦r painââ¦s for the Triall of his obedience and patience and so doe all the Sonnes of God before or when they depart this life though I willingly graunt that the sense of Christs paines in many respects were farre greeuouser then any the Godly can feele with submission and deuotion to God b Defenc. pag. 89. li 37. Your selfe also graunteth that Christ both might and did suffer the extreamest paines that migââ¦t be without his owne sinne Then the more to blame you that content not your selfe therewith but runne to the Reprobate and to the damned to drawe Christs Soule within the compasse of their confusion and destruction I neuer sought to diminish or elââ¦uate Christs sufferings so farre as the Scriptures gaue any witnesse thereoâ⦠but to auouch as you doe that he suffered the true paines of the damned as I then saw no Scripture to warrant it so I yet heare no reason to vphold it besides your presumptuous will Howbeit I restrained the sufferings of Christ to the state of this life where he suffered and excepted not onely all stainââ¦s of sinne and wants of grace but added holinesse and righteousnesse to all his sufferings which must be voluntarie religious and meritorious that they might be the more pretious in Gods sight and this can agree to no sufferings of the Reprobate or of the damned You would faine torment and afflict the Soule of Christ with Gods immediare hand but your proofe thereof is so weake and idle and your inconstancie therein so plaine and sensible that you doe but play with both hands to see which will soonest deceaue the Reader For sometimes it shall be Gods owne and immediate hand and his most proper Act sometimes it shall be the displeasure of God against our sinnes conceaued and discerned by the Spirit of Christ that bred such torment and affliction of Soule and which of these two you will rather incline to you cannot yet resolue c Defenc. pag. 90. li. 1. It was possible for Christ to conceaue and feele in his mind farre greater sorrowes and paines for our sââ¦nne from Gods wrath then he could ââ¦eele meerely in his Body outwardly It euer hath been the last refuge of all heresie to flie from the truth testified in the Scriptures to the power of God or possibilitie Tertullian being so answered by Praxeas replieth in this sort d Tertullianuâ⦠aduersus Praxeam Plainly nothing is hard to God but if we vse this sentence so abruptly in our owne presumptions we may fame any thing of God as if he had done it because he could doe it But though God can doe all things yet we must not beleeue that which he neuer did but we must examine whether he hath done it That God tormenteth Soules in hell with his immediate hand is a point stifly presumed by you but as strange to the Scriptures as the rest of your new found deuices and why you should doubt of the literall sense of Christs words Depart you cursed into euerlasting fire prepared for the diuell and his Angels there is no cause but that you doe not thinke God is able to subiect sinnefull spirits to externall meanes of punishment And therefore you bring in Gods immediate hand as only meete to ouer-master Soules and diuels and giue him no power to punish them by any Creature ordained for that purpose Now whether it be Faith or Infidelitie to ââ¦lude all those places as ââ¦iguratiue speeches where euerlasting fire is threatned and mentioned in the Scriptures I haue formerly said what I thought sufficient thither I remit such as be desirous to read Likewise that God with his immediate hand tormented the Soule of Christ at the Time of his Passion with the same degree and kind of paine which the damned feele this is an other of your Positions for which you haue as much Scripture as you haue for the creating of another world What Christ discââ¦rned of Gods wrath to be laid on his person I would gladly here you expresse otherwise then in generall and doubtfull speeches which vnder a shew of some truth couer a number of your ââ¦rroneous conceits For first it is certaine that Christ conceaued truely as well of Gods Anger against our sinnes as of Gods fauour towards his owne Person which infinitely excââ¦eded the displeasure that Gods holinesse had against vs that were sinfull Creatures Himselfe saith e Iohn 8. I know my Father and if I should say I know him not I should be a liar like vnto you but I know him The same Euangelisâ⦠saith of Christs sufferings Iââ¦sus f Iohn 18. knowing all things that should come vp in him And this knowledge if it swarued from the truth was not an ignorance but an error in Christ beleeuing a lie insteede of Truth which God forbid we should suppose of him that not onely said g Iohn 8. I tell you the Truth but h Iohn 14. I am the Truth Christ thââ¦n most certainly knew that God was highly offended with our sinnes but better pleased with his Person and that Gods loue towards him would accept his voluntariââ¦
might and did punish properly Christes soule also and yet neuer deuide his Godhead nor his loue from it The one standeth with Gods iustice and with the nature of man in Christ as well as the other A wanton colt when he winceth with his heeles thinketh he can batter walles and beate downe trees with a blow when yet the skittish thing doth but hurt it selfe Is this the reason which weakened all that I said in so manie sides against the death of the soule for of that I speake in all those pages which you quote Neede you a paire of spectacles so see the difference betweene the death of the soule and the death of the bodie that you so falsely idlely and foolishly match them together A verie drone would soone discerne that the death of the bodie innocently obediently and patiently suffered could no way separate Christ from the fauour and loue of God nor hinder the worke of our redemption though it depriued hiâ⦠of life sense and motion in the bodie for the time which are the good blessings of God when they are vsed to his glorie and yet the death of the soule which leaueth neither action affection nor communion of grace trueth or faith in the soule seuereth both Soule and body quite from God and maketh them hatefull vnto God and altogether vnapt to reconcile others vnto God when they themselues are disioyned and parted from God And therefore notwithstanding your Crakes that you can blow mountaines afore you with your breath and your craft that shift the death of the Soule whereof I speake in all those places into a proper spirituall punishment of your owne framing you haue not auoyded any one Reason there nor offer so much as to come toward the matter in question but roue after your wonted manner with generall phrases proper to your selfe and then thinke that no man seeth you there are other punishments in the Soule besides death but none that can reconcile vs vnto God For b Rom 5. We were reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne c 1. Cor. 15. I declare vnto you saith Paul the Gospell which I preached vnto you and whereby you are saued For first of all I deliuered vnto you that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Then you and whosoeuer else that preach or beleeue Remission of sinnes by any thing else but by the death of Christ you preach not the Gospell which the Apostle deliuered neither can you looke for saluation in Christ that leaue the maine ground thereof which is the death that he tasted for all and through which he destroyed him that had the power of death euen the diuell So that to step to any other spirituall punishments for the satisfaction of our sinnes and reconciliation to God then to that which the Scriptures call the death of Christ and the death of the Crosse is to renounce all that God hath ordained or reuealed for our Saluation and to create you new Sauiours after your owne conceits You must therefore be directly and plainly brought to this point whether Christ suffered for vs the death of the Soule by the Scriptures and not such giggers of proper punishments nor straines of improper speeches as you and your friends hunt after but fairely and fully according to the direction of the sacred Scriptures which must be heard and preferred before all your fansies as well touching the death of the soule as the trueth of our redemption by the bloud of Christ Iesus Wherein though I exclude not the sense and affections of his soule which felt the paine knew the cause and beheld the counsell of God in all those sufferings vndertaken for man through the tender loue that he bare to man yet none of those feares sorrowes nor paines which the soule discerned and receiued did any whit diminish the power of Gods spirit and grace in him nor the perfection of his faith hope and loue whereby the soule cleaued fast to God without any separation and consequently the innocence obedience and patience of Christes soule in his sufferings both outward and inward did confirme and manifest the life of his soule But of this more in due place d Defenc. paâ⦠90. li. 27. Then you addresse your selfe against another euen one of the chiefest reasons of mine which I make from the strange and incomparable agonies of Christ in the time of his passion You make no reasons from Christes agonie but assuming that for a shew which you do not vnderstand you inferre what you list by your rash presumptuous and manifest contradictions both to your selfe and to the Scriptures e Ibid. li. 30. These inuaded him as we reade principally at three times First in the foretaste of his passion Ioh. 12. secondly in the Garden a little before his apprehension thirdly in his very extreame passion it selfe on the crosse The Scripture mentioneth one agonie and you multiplie that to three In the twelfth of Iohn when some of the Grecians that came to worship on the feast of Easter were desirous to see Christ of whom they had heard much and made their desire knowen to Philip and he to Andrew and they both to Iesus Iesus answered them f Iohn 12. The houre was come euen at hand that the Sonne of man should be glorified by his death This therefore was not a time to shew himselfe when his heart or soule was troubled with other matters euen with the meditation and preparation of his death Now except you be so wise that you will make euery affection in Christ an agonie there is no cause to conceiue this to be an agonie He often times thought and spake of his death before where no man besides you doth dreame of agonies and this verie word is in other cases ascribed aswell to Christ as to others where no colour of an agonie doth appeare When he tolde his Disciples that one of them should betray him g Iohn 13. ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã he was troubled in spirit and meaning to raise Lazarus from death when he saw Mary the sister of Lazarus and the Iewes that were with her to weepe h Iohn 11. he groned in spirit and troubled himselfe insomuch that he wept which yet was no agonie but a touch of humane compassion shewing the loue he bare vnto them The complaint on the crosse besides the words had no shew of an agonie and what sense they beare we shall after examine Verily he that would not suffer his owne Disciples to beholde his agonie in the Garden would neuer in the eyes or eares of his enemies with his owne deeds or words verifie their reproches and taunts against himselfe as if he were forsaken of God which was the thing they vpbraided him with And therfore you may deuise not three but threescore agonies if you will The Scripture expresseth one and that you neither rightly conceiue nor rightly vse i Defenc. pag. 90. li. 35. To all that
teacheth that we must follow the will of God though nature reclaime So that the preferring of Gods will before the desire of his owne nature and the limiting of his prayer with this condition If it were possible not to Gods power but to Gods purpose to saue the world without his death then he desired the cuppe might passe from him prooue apparently that Christ was not onely well aduised in that prayer but he meant to teach vs that neither the power of his enemies did oppresse his weaknesse nor his owne loue leade him to a needlesse death it was rather Gods determined and irreuocable counsell and will that he must die or we must perish By which we learne not Christes inconstancie as of a man amazed but an excellent mysterie of Christian religion that no sacrifice could take away sinne but onely The intent of Christs prayer in the garden the death of Christ on the crosse which he for our sakes earnestly desired though by his thrise declining it if we might possibly be otherwise saued he shewed how painfull and grieuous that suffering would be vnto him We are therefore by the one to collect how intolerable that cuppe would be to his flesh and by the other to beholde his ardent loue to vs and willing obedience to his Father which things if in your conceit they conclude Christ to haue beene therein amazed I shall coniecture that your wits are not to this houre yet well recouered since greater pietie and charitie could not be shewed in that infirmitie wherewith Christ was then compassed and acerbitie of paines to come which he did not dissemble Now let vs heare how you impugne this o Defenc. pag. 99. li. 26. The first of these foure maketh in my minde much for vs. For vnderstanding that Christ tooke all the infirmities and passions whereto mens nature is subiect to the end he might cure all and euerie kinde of them in vs then it followeth that he wanted not the paines and immediate sufferings of paines inflicted by Gods owne hand in his soule It is but your mind that maketh so much for you your collection is otherwise as wide from reason and trueth as any may be For what if Christ taking our nature vnto him tooke therewith all our infirmities and affections which you cunningly call passions a word indifferent to affections and sufferings doth that inferre that he tooke vnto him the paines of the damned because mans nature through the hardnesse of his impenitent hart is subiect after this life by Gods iust iudgement to euerlasting damnation for sinne are your eyes so ill matches that you cannot discerne betwixt naturall affections cleauing to all men from their birth and the reall suffering of hell paines inflicted as you defend by Gods immediate hand on the soules of the faithfull here in this life which in deed are reserued for the wicked in another world are somtimes feared of the godly here on earth when the conscience of their sin through want of faith calleth Gods fauor in question with their owne harts first proue that all the godly haue the pains of the damned inflicted here in this life on their soules by the immediat hand of God for nature is not proper nor priuate to this or that man but common and constant to all men and next that notwithstanding your hell paines thus suffered they are in constant and perfect faith and assurance of Gods fauour and his heauenly kingdome and then you haue some pretence for your purpose which now is none For touching the first I appeale not onely to the Scriptures which teach no such thing but to the consciences and experiences of all the faithfull whether this can haue any trueth in it that the true paines of the damned are really inflicted on all their soules here on earth by Gods immediate hand And secondly when they feele any feare of Gods wrath or doubt of Gods fauour whether that come not through the failing and shrincking of their faith which pressed often with the number of their sinnes feareth least God will visite their offences with a mercielesse iudgement because they haue so greatly prouoked him The feare of hell may iustly make them quake and tremble which they acknowledge they haue worthily deserued and the same terrour doth often though not alwaies pursue the wicked vnto desperation but other torments of hell actually inflicted by Gods owne hand on the soules of all the faithfull as the Scriptures deliuer none so you shall not be able to prooue any common to all mankind though God want not power to punish where and as pleaseth him If therefore you speake of naturall affections they were common to Christ with vs but in vs excessiue vpon euery occasion which in him were moderate till they were inflamed with piety or charitie and then they burned more in him then in vs by reason of his abundant giftes and graces farre passing ours But if you talke of some secret speculations priuate to your selfe and some others of your sort that dreame perchaunce of hell paines both night and day according to your owne fansies then no words of mine nor of any auncient father come neere those deuices of yours which are knowen to no man either by reading or feeling but to such conceiters as you are if happely you doe not belie or deceaue your owne hearts p Defenc. pag. 99. li. 37. This your authors here doe fully affirme Cyrill Ambrose and others as before we haue obserued Mine authors there are easily redde and if any such thinge be there mentioned or thence to be concluded I am content you shall be thought to speake some trueth which is almost a maruaile in you you wrie all things so absurdly to your senselesse fansies Of your fourth argument and of these authors I haue largely deliuered what I take to be true euen in the place where you produced them to this purpose And so I leaue this as lately refuted lest I lengthen the volume to much q Defenc. pag. 100. li. 1. It is most vnreasonable which here you doe if you doe as you seeme to vnderstand them of meere bodilie death and of the infirmities meerelie of his flesh Shew that they name or intend any other death then the death of Christes body on the crosse or els your otherwise conceauing them without any words of theirs is a plaine peruerting them to pull them to your part Of infirmities when they speake they meane naturall such as were no derogations to faith nor hope nor to any other the graces of Gods spirite in Christ and in them all Christ was like vnto vs whether they were infirmities of body or soule Whether feare and sorow be infirmities meerely of the flesh is a doubt fit for Feare may be intellectiuâ⦠or sensitiue your discussing they may be sensitiue or intellectiue according to their obiects and in Christ since they were caused by things rather foreseene then felt or at least
power that in all as well sufferings as doings he might be obedient and yet righteous And had they heard such a ghest as you are tell them a tale of Gods t Defenc. pag. 106. li. 38. diuine power wringing out of Christes body a bloudy sweat they would haue rung you another manner of Peale For what is wringing but violent forcing and what is violence but inuoluntary constraint which is any thing rather then obedience and so where the Apostle professeth of Christ that he was obedient euen vnto death you haue spied out that Christes bloudy sweat was WRVNG from him and so no part of his willing and free submission and obedience vnto God u Defenc. pag. 107. li. 12. Where they say Nec infirmitas quod potestas gessit that prooueth the cleane contrarie for ideo infirmitas quia potestas gessit For the working of his power in him argueth the suffering of his infirmity The power of God is perfited in infirmity If you would ascribe neither Religion nor learning to two such Pillars of Christes Church as Hilarie and Austen were you should at least leaue them common in sight and vnderstanding of their owne wordes It is enough for a man of your sise to lacke learning trueth and sense They were very learned and wise or els the whole Church that hath hitherto esteemed and receaued them for such was much deceaued But you that haue found a new faith in the Scriptures no maruaile if you catch the fathers with contrarieties which others neuer drempt of The ground of their wordes is the cleare rule of reason nature and trueth confirmed in heauen earth and hell that contraries in one and the same subiect time and respect doe exclude one another As if any thing be cold it is not hoate if it be drie it is not moist if it be straight it is not crooked and so if it be weake it is not strong Hence they conclude if there could be in Christ no compulsion to feare and sorow then was there election if no necessity then liberty and consequently if no preualence of corruption against his fullnesse of trueth and grace then it was not infirmity that subiected him to these violent and painfull affections but it was his will and power that raised and restrained them in him selfe Against this what saith our master of new maximes nay it was therefore infirmitie because power did it This indeed crosteth their sayings but withall it crosseth all trueth if you take their wordes as they spake them But you meane as your marginer noteth therefore there was infirmity because x Defenc pag. 107. ad marginem li. 3. there was power He can neuer shoot amisse that neuer offreth to any marke Where was there infirmity where was there power in the person of Christ belike Hilary and Austen did not know that Christ was God and man and had in his person both the infinite power of God and the voluntarie weaknesse of man that being compared with his Godhead might well be called infirmity as the Apostle saiââ¦th Christ was crucisied concerning his infirmity that is in the weaknesse of his flesh but yet that voluntary weaknesse of God or in God the sonne was stronger then all the power of men or of Diuels whom his manhood spoiled and caried captiues with an open triumphe This is not their meaning to say that Christ had no infirme part in his person compared with his diuine power that is no manhood but only his Godhead and therefore your reply to that purpose is as senselesse as it is needlesse Where Christes diuine power did punish there his humane infirmity did suffer This is your wresting of their wordes against their meaning to bring them to your compasse but this is no part of their speech That weaknesse is patient where power is agent this may be but what is that to their words which are very true without your punishing power Hilarie sayth y Hilar. de Trinitate li. 10. To sweat bloud is against nature and so not a weaknesse in nature Since then it was aboue nature to sweat bloud he ascribeth it to Christes will and power performing that in his bodie which nature could not do z Ibidem Quis rogo furor est repudiata doctrinae Apostolicae fide mutare sensum religionis totum hoc ad imbecillitatem contumeliam rapere naturae quod volunt as est sacramentum quod potest as est siducia triumphus What madnesse is this here you Sir Defender how he requiteth you for peruerting the trueth of his words by refusing the faith of the Apostles doctrine to change the sense of religion and to impute all that to the imbccillitie and contumelie of Christes nature which was his will and a mysterie yea power considence and victory And againe lest you should thinke he wanted reason for his speech a Ibidem Quarogo side naturaliter infirmus fuisse defenditur cui naturale fuit omnem human arum infirmitatum inhibere naturam Forte stulta atque impia peruersitate hinc infirmae in ââ¦o naturae presumitur assertio quia trist is sit anima eius vsque ad mortem With what faith I aske is Christ assirmed to be naturally weake to whom it was naturall to heale all mans infirmities Happely by a foolish and wicked peeuishnesse he is therefore presumed to be of a weake nature because his soule was sorrowfull vnto death This ground of his speech is short but sure except you will deride Christ and say b Luke 4. Physician heale thy selfe or blaspheme him with the Pharises and say as they sayd c Matth. 27. He saued others he can not saue himselfe It was then in Christ not want of power to represse these passions or repell these infirmities that subiected himselfe vnto them it was his owne willing obedience that would taste them and power that did guide them lest they should breake into the distemper and excesse of our corrupt nature The power of God you say is perfected in infirmitie Those words I trust were not spoken of Christ and howsoeuer in some sort they may be verified of Christ yet is there no comparison betwixt our naturall infirmitie and his fulnesse of trueth and grace d Esa. 11. The spirit of counsell and trueth rested on him e Iohn 3. without measure wee wholly want it till Gods power in some degree confirme our infirmitie Againe infirmitie in these words doth signifie outward afflictions and miseries for so the Apostle there expoundeth it f 2. Cotin 12. vers 10. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities in reproches in necessities in persecutions for when I am outwardly weake then I am inwardly strong So that those words can not rightly be referred to inward infirmitie and might they yet Christes gifts and graces of the Holy Ghost were not only farre aboue Pauls but in the greatest degree that any creature might haue them and
on him sundry waies and that directly from Gods proper wrath for our sinnes he felt his whole humane Nature for the time left all comfortlesse and alone without any ioyous assistance of his Deitie Doe you enforce all this from the word for saking or would you adde it to those words which Christ spake either way your ignorance or impudence is cleare and manifest For if you dare adde so many circumstances of so great importance to those words you are not a tolerable expounder but a notable peruerter of Christs words If you would conclude so much from the word you shew your selfe most ridiculous against all the rules of Diuine Doctrine and humane sense to deduce all those sequels from that one word For neither infinite paines nor from Gods proper wrath nor in Christs whole humane Nature nor all comfortlesse are necessarie consequents to that word and yet graunt all these so farre as any truth or experience conuinceth them to be felt in this life they no way amount to the second death or to the true paines of the damned which is the thing you should and would inferre from this complaint r Defenc. pag. 108. li. 7. I meane his Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his Passion gaue him no sense nor feeling of ease comfort or ioy Your owne mouth testifieth against you that you doe not expound but corrupt the Scriptures to serue your conceits Begin with the last Doth not the Apostle in plaine words say that Christ s Heb. 12. for the ioy set before him endured the Crosse Who could set any ioy before him in that case but God alone then apparantly did his Godhead set before him assurance of ioy and that euerlasting in the highest degree which was so great that it led him with patience to endure the Crosse. He had no present feeling thereof you will say So you must say or else in exact words you shew your selfe to contradict the spirit of God But if God did propose it and Christ did most certainly know it and expect it had faith and hope in him no present sense nor feeling had not Christ farre certainer and fuller knowledge and sight of Gods presence fauour and promises then any faith or hope in vs can haue t Rom. 5. If then we reioyce vnder the hope of glory did not he did not he know that he u Luke 24. was to suffer those things and so to enter into his glory when he called them fooles and slow of hart that beleeued not all that the Prophets haue spoken by the spirit x 1. Peter 1. forewitnessing the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow Did the spirit of God by Dauid beare false witnesse when he said of Christ and in Christs person I y Acts 2. beheld the Lord alwaies before me at my right hand that I should not be shaken therefore did mine hart reioyce and my toong was glad and my flesh shall rest in hope Ease from paine he felt none ne would he feele till by death he determined his sufferings but comfort in his afflictions he could not want because he was not onely patient and obedient to the will of God and so not void of comfort when he had done the will of God to receiue his promises but euen in the midst of his sharpest paines he saw the counsell of God for his glorification and our redemption and beheld God as his Father most highly pleased with him though iustly displeased with our sinnes the smart whereof he must feele in his flesh That therefore Christes whole humane Nature on the Crosse was all comfortlesse and alone is false doctrine and repugnant not onely to the words of Dauid that Christ z Psal. 16. beheld God alwaies at his right hand that he should not be mooued but euen to the manifest assertion of Christ himselfe who said to his Disciples a Iohn 16. the houre is come that you shall be scattered and leaue me alone but I am not alone for the Father is with me Now if God were alwaies present with Christ that he should not be shaken God was alwaies well pleased with him Yea God was ioyned to him not ingrace alone as he is with vs but in nature and person as he is with no man else nor Angel If then we haue comfort from Gods grace and spirit in our afflictions how much more did consolations abound in Christ euen as sufferings did for since God is b 2. Cor. 1. the God of all comfort who comforteth vs in all our troubles that as the sufferings of Christ abound in vs so our consolation should abound through Christ how is it possible Christ should comfort vs if he were himselfe all comfortlesse in his paines shall we deriue that from him which he had not or rather is it impietie so much as to thinke that any inward comfort wanted vnto Christ who was personally vnited to God and on whom the c Esa. 11. Spirit of God rested that is alwaies continued with all fulnesse of grace and truth c Esa. 11. euen the spirit of wisedome and vnder standing the spirit of counsell and strength the spirit of knowledge and of the feare of the Lord If this spirit neuer departed from him he could want neither peace nor ioy in the holy Ghost and so no comfort incident to mans nature afflicted as he then was and would be yea that was the least degree of his comfort which was common to him with vs who yet deriue all our comfort from him he had the nearest surest highest and plentifullest spring of comfort in his owne person that any creature was capable of To make therefore his whole manhood all comfortlesse without any inward peace or ioy from Gods spirit is a detestable doctrine subuerting the communion of both Natures in Christ and so dissoluing the vnion of his person if neither part of his humane nature had any sense or feeling of his Godhead d Defenc. pag. 108. li. 5. I say not he wanted now all assistance of his deitie If he wanted peace and comfort in the holy Ghost if he had no longer any certaine knowledge nor vnderstanding of his fathers will and if he felt inwardly in his humane soule no perswasion apprehension nor expectation of his fathers presence fauour and promises tell me what assistance he had of his Godhead when all these things failed in him ioious assistance Christ found no ioy in his pââ¦ine but comfort in his hope he had none Is it fit for such a wrangler as you are first to dishonour the sufferings of Christ with the leauen of your fansies and then to sprinkle them with the holy water of your Phrases how often hath it beene told you that for obedience to the will of his father the sonne of God would vse no power to repell his paines nor to diminish his sense thereof but only
dereliction beseemeth the time place person and cause of Christ our ransome payer and purchaser of saluation with the price of his owne most direfull paines not any other farre fet or hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men As iâ⦠trueth all those other senses hereof are which you rather embrace Somewhat it was you mustered foure places of Scripture so wisely chosen and well becomming your cause before you would offer to determine the matter and now puft vp with pure pride and prickt on with singular disdaine you censure the whole Church of Christ and the chiefe lights and leaders thereof I still except the Apostles as peruerters of the Scriptures traducing their expositions as farre fet hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men But if you so much despise their learning religion and iudgements who were Gods blessed instruments to maintaine his trueth against all heresies and his Church against all Schismaticks and thinke your braines to be more than the braines of a man take heed lest your Reader begin to suspect you haue the braines of some other kinde If Athanasius Hilarie Chrysostome Basil Cyrill Epiphanius Ierome Ambrose Augustine Origen Tertullian and Leo may not be thought in the verdict of any wise or sober man as likely to vnderstand the sense of Christes words on the crosse as your humorous and presumptuous shall I say braine which you so much abase in others or head without braine then I must confesse my fault who loue not to leane to mine owne wit in cases of faith but rather preferre the religious and laborious inquiries of others chiefly of learned and ancient Fathers where it concerneth matters of saluation and the grounds of Christian religion which they carefully receiued and faithfully deliuered to Gods people so many hundred yeeres before we were borne And what maââ¦uell you be so bolde with the braines of men as you terme it when you take vpon you to ouerrule the words of the Holy Ghost For where in the sacred Scriptures the bloud of Christ shed for vs is recorded to be the true price of our redemption you controlling as well the Apostles as the Fathers tell vs here that Christ o Pa. 108. li. 23. purchased our saluation with the price of his most direfull paines where by direfull paines you meane hell paines that your speech in this case may be as new as your faith Belike then in your conceit Peter Paul and Iohn though Christes Apostles were neuer well Catechised nor instructed in their faith since they affirme p 1. Pet. 1. we were redeemed by the precious bloud of Christ and q Ephes. 1. we haue redemption in Christ through his bloud and Christ r Reuel 5. by his bloud redeemed vs vnto God which lesson you like not and therefore you say our saluation was purchased with the price of Christes direfull paines that is of hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ which hath no bloud vnlesse you can as easily deuise new bloud for Christes soule as you haue done a new hell for Christs sufferings Till you so do giue me and other Christians leaue to thinke that the second death which you dreame of did neither beseeme the time place person nor cause of Christ our Redeemer and therefore his words on the crosse could haue no such reference as you haue riddled in this place s Defenc. pag. 108. li. 27. Your expositions are sixe in number the first is that when Christ on the crosse cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me by this word ME he should meane his Church for which you haue no reason in the world but the bare names of Austen Leo Athanasius The moe the senses may be of these words and euery of them agreeing with Christian pietie as I professed of them the lesse soundnesse is in your conclusion that would inferre vpon a strange and needlesse sense of these words your paines of the damned to be then suffered in the soule of Christ. And in denying your direfull exposition of Christes words I haue all the Fathers of Christes Church for 1400 yeeres of the same opinion with me And if your chiefe and capitall proofes were such newes to them what thinke you was the rest of your new faith They are sixe in number you say and they all can not stand together You are nimble in trifles and in substance no bodie Nor I nor any man liuing may take vpon vs to determine which shall be the meaning of Christes words when the words themselues admit and allow manie senses In this very case the persons and the parts forsaken the graces and degrees wherein and how farre that dereliction might extend receiue diuers opinions and though they be different they are not repugnant the one to the other And yet it is no newes in many places of holy Scripture by reason of the different or repugnant significations of the words circumstances of the sentence and degrees of extension and intension in many things to finde contrarie iudgements of men euen of the same words and things in holy writ Neither doe diuers expositions disgrace the word of God so long as they containe nothing repugnant to the text it selfe in that or any other place but shew rather the depth of Gods wisedome which incloseth many things in few words and often passeth the reach and search of mans wit But you that carpe at euery thing besides your owne conceits would faine make your Reader beleeue that siue fingers and one hand ten toes and two feet can not stand together For the matter it selfe as dereliction is confessed on all sides because it is mentioned in the words of Christ so it may be questioned of what persons to what part and in what things Christ conceined and intended that for saking of which he spake For as God is sayd in the Scriptures to be present with vs diuers wayes and to diuers effects namely when he lightneth strengtheneth and inwardly guideth vs with the grace of his spirit or outwardly blesseth our wayes and heareth and helpeth vs in time of trouble so when he withdraweth or with holdeth any of these things from vs whether it be his helpe his blessing or his grace he is sayd to depart and to forsake vs. Now if we take forsaking in Christes words for the losing or lacking of Gods What forsaking could not be found in Christ. fauour grace or spirit it was not possible that any such forsaking should at any time be found in Christ our head though the members of Christ do all well deserue to be depriued of all these things and were depriued of them till by Christ they were restored Since then this kinde of forsaking could neuer be verified of Christes person but only of his members and he suffered for vs t Ephes. 2. 16. to reconcile vs to God by his Crosse these words of Christ on the Crosse some learned Fathers haue expounded to
for saken of God whose cause to reconcile them ãâã then vndertookest and as a most skillfull Patron for seruants thou didest not disdaine to take the person of a seruant and SO FARRE thou didst compassionate the weake that thou wast neither afraid nor ashamed to be crucified and to dy leauing for a time thine owne higth and emptying the maiesty of thy glory that the dispersed might returne and the forsaken might take breath or comfort The forsaking which Cyprian here describeth in Christ consisteth in leauing of his diuine power and glory for a time and in abasing himselfe SO FARRE as to dy the death of the Crosse for their sakes but no farder And these wordes he saith Christ would haue vnderstoode to be a cause of their Reconciliation to God who had deserued for their sinnes to be forsaken of God and therefore he addeth presently f ãâã I consider thee Lord on that crosse where thou seemedst without helpe or forsaken how with an Emperiall power thou didst send the theefe before to thy kingdome by assuming of whom it is manifest how much thou hadst preuailed for those that were forsaken You would faine so wrest Cyprians wordes that he should say Christ vndertooke our cause and no more but he withall affirmeth that Christ tooke vpon him our person and that his carefull complaint were the wordes of his beloued If the wordes were spoken as well in our person as in our cause then we were indeed forsaken and Christ by laying downe his glorie for a time and obeying his fathers will did by those wordes declare that he reconciled vs to God when we were forsaken and in signe thereof with full power made the theefe partaker of his kingdome that had deserued and was condemned to die the death of a for lorne and forsaken malefactour g Defenc. pag. 109. li. 2. If you thincke they ment that Christ spake this by some strange metonimy naming himselfe but meaning his Church that can haue no good sense I shall not need to tell you The first sense of ãâã complaint on the Crosse. what I thinke let them speake themselues what they ment and when you haue heard their meaning out of their owne wordes you shall see how much you abused Cyprian to make him speake that he neuerment It is plaine enough which Athanasius saith h Athanaââ¦ius de incarnatione Christi Christ spake those wordes in our person for he was neuer forsaken of God and Austen is as euident i August epist. 120. why disdaine we to heare the voice of the body by the mouth of the head to me that is to my body my church and my litle ones So was it said why hast thou forsaken me euen as it was said he that receaueth you receaueth me No doubt we were in those wordes and the head did speake for his body And likewise Leo k Leo Serm. 16. de Pââ¦ss Dom. Christ spake those wordes in the voice of his Redeemed Neither are they alone in this opinion Theodoret satith l Theodoret. iâ⦠Psalm 21. because Christ was the head of mans nature he speaketh for the whole nature of man So Bede m ãâã a in Psal. 21. Quare dereliquistime idestmeos ideo scilicet quia longè te fecerunt peccata esse à salute mea id est meorum Hec verbaplane innuunt caput non in persona sua hic loqui Quomodo enim derelictus vellonge à salute factus posset esse ille Why hast thou forsaken me that is mine because sinne did put thee farre from sauing me that is mine These words do plainly prooue that the head doth not here speake in his owne person For how could he possiblely be forsaken or remooued from saluation And Euthymius n ãâã in Psal. 21. The Lord taketh vnto him the person of mans nature as lincked to him and saith why hast thou forsaken me now a man that is the whole nature of man And Damascene o ãâã Orthodoxe fidei li. 3. ca. 24. Christ was neuer forsaken of his owne Godhead but we were those that were forsaken and despised Wherefore appropriating our person he praied in that sort And expressing what it is to appropriate or assume an others person he saith As when a man doth put on an others person of piety or charitic and in his steed vseth speach for him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã which agreeth not vnto himselfe If then we take dereliction for the want of Gods fauour spirit and grace as these Fathers doe it is euident Christ could not so be forsaken and consequently these wordes in that sense which is proper to the Children of Gods wrath could not agree to the person of Christ though it were true in his members that they by nature were forsaken and destitute of grace till he reconciled them to God and diffused his spirite into their harts to make them partakeââ¦s of his holinesse And as for the strangenesse of the metonimy count you that strange which Christ vseth in one Chapter more then thirty times and find you no strangenesse in your conceits which are no where throughout the Scriptures either expressed or so much as coherent with the continuall speach and plaine rules of the Scriptures p Defenc. pag. 109. li. 5. That can haue no good sense For how can it be that we were forsaken of God when Christ was on the Crosse Nay euen then and there we were purchased vnto God not forsaken by God Doth any man vse when he would make reasons for his opinion to refuââ¦e himselfe as you doe we were purchased you say on the Crosse vnto God you must adde by the bloud of his sonne which was also God for that Saint Paul in the plââ¦ce which you cite nameth as the true and right price of this purchase God purchased his Church with his owne bloud and not by the direfull paines of hell as your braine hath lately broched Now if we were purchased on the Crosse then till we were purchased we were enstranged from God and so forsaken of him And what hindreth this complaint or prayer of Christs to beare witnesse that we were now reconciled and purchased vnto God which before were forsaken and separated from God For those words doe not imply that we still continued forsaken but that formerly without Christ we were vtterly forsaken and now by him restored to fauour And the goodnesse of this sense I doe not thinke but any man of meane capacitie will soone conceaue and iudge it more fruitfull for vs to know that by Christs mediation and oblation on the crosse we are now no longer strangers vnto God nor forsaken of him as before we were for our sinnes then that Christ suffered the direfull and infernall paines and death of the damned in his Soule before we could be freed from our sinnes For of the first there can be no question and of the second you neither haue nor euer shall be able to bring one
line or letter of holy Scripture q Defenc pag. 109. li. 7. Againe your owne rule is which I like well that no figure is to be admitted in Scriptures where there is no ill nor hurtfull sense following litterally But I haââ¦e shewed a little before a plaine easie and Christian sense hereof taking it litterally The rule is most needfull to preserue the right sense of the Scripture For if euery man may elude with figures that which liketh not his humour we shall haue little truth left in the word of God But euen by that rule your sense of Christs complaint is quite ouerthrowen because your exposition plainly fastneth desperation for the time to the Soule of Christ. For all hope hath ioy and comfort in it r Rom. 12. Reioycing in hope saith the Apostle If then Christ neuer forsaken of hope and comfort Christ for that season of his Passion were all comfortlesse as you pretend and had no sense nor feeling of any comfort or ioy he had no hope for hope bringeth ioy and comfort And what is no hope but despaire that therefore the litterall sense of these words neither is nor can be true taking dereliction for the inward forsaking of Gods grace and spirit as well the Scriptures as the Fathers whom I haue produced doe with one voice confirme Saint Austen may serue to shew the reason that led him and the rest so to thinke s August in Psal. 43. Ille caput nostrum vocem de cruce non dixit suam sed nostram non enim vnquam dereliquit eum Deus sed propter nos dixit hoc Deus Deus meus vt quid me dereliquisti Christ our head vttered not his owne words but ours For God neuer at any time forsooke him But for vs he said My God my God why hast thou forsaken me t Defenc. pag. 109. li. 19. Finally this first sense is contrarie to your second and third following also to your fift and sixt senses If either of these be taken as the true meaning of this place it cannot possibly stand with the rest I did not professe to discusse the likeliest sense of those words It sufficed me to let you see the weaknesse of your cause in deriuing your hell paines from Christs complaint on the crosse by this that twelue auncient and learned Fathers did diuersly sift and examine those words and yet none of them euer lighted on your second death or on the forsaking which you labour to establish in the soule of Christ. Now if the words doe tolerably beare so many interpretations what assurance had you thence to conclude your hellish confusion which you imagine in the Sauiour of the world yea graunt the expositions were contrarie which indeed are somewhat different according as the word of dereliction is applied and intended that maketh the more against you and hindereth not me For still I vrge the words which you stand on do necessarily inferre no such sense as you would fasten to them The thing that I presse is this that there are many other senses of these words approoued and preferred by the consent of the best writers old and new and yours of all others as it hath no consent of Christs Church ne was euer heard of before our age so hath it no foundation in the Sacred Scriptures You would disgrace the Fathers as iuuentors of strange and new senses but you little remember all this while that of all others yours is the latest absurdest and least likely sense of that complaint And yet if you wrest it to the lowest step of dereliction that this life knoweth or the Scripture here ãâã it may amount to desperation but neuer to reall and actuall damnation u Defenc. pag. 109. li. 23. Your second sense what is it euen this that Christs humane Nature was left helplesse to the rage of the Iewes which is a kind of forsaking This seemeth to come neerest indeede to your liking but as I said thiâ⦠is directly contrarie to your first sense and to the rest following They that giue diuerse senses of any places in Scripture doe not meane they The second sense of Christes complaint on the crosse shall be wholy like or the same for then they were not diuerse but according to the varietie of significations and circumstances offered by the words they varie their expositions So here if we take dereliction for losse of grace then that sense of the word could not agree to Christ but to the reprobate without Christ or to the rest before they be engraffed into Christ and consequently me in Christs words must signifie my Members that were one body with him If we take it for lacke of helpe in time of trouble then it might well agree vnto the person of Christ who was forsaken that is left in his affliction and not deliuered from it till he died that we might euer after be restored and reconciled to the fauour of God Which commeth neerest to my liking I neuer acquainted you the places which you quote prooue no such thing they onely shew that this exposition hath sufficient foundation in other places of Scripture where the word forsaking is vsed to the like intent Howbeit there is no cause that I or you should mislike this exposition and the trifles which you obiect against it will confirme as much x Defenc. pag. 109. li. 29. There is surely no reason nor shew of Reason that Christ should here so mournfully and so ââ¦ncomfortably complaine that God had forsaken him if it were onely but for such distresses as the godly also doe equally suffer at the hands of euill men Had you but perused the places by which you conclude my liking of this Exposition you should haue seene Reason and reason enough for Christ to be thus affected in his extreame miseries as well as his Church is in the like or lesse Had the Church of God no reason to say in the Prophet Esay y Esa. 49. The Lord hath forsaken me or did God want reason in his answere when he said z Esa. 54. ver 7. for a while I forsooke thee for a moment in mine anger I hid my face from thee If then God had Reason to say to his Church a Ibid. ver 6. the Lord hath called thee a woman forsaken and afflicted in spirit could Christ want reason in his intolerable paines on the Crosse to complaine that he was now a long time left in them without helpe or ease as for the equall sufferings of the godly at the hands of men on which you would take aduantage I haue shewed the difference before When paines in others grow sharpest then sense decaieth and'death approcheth in the paines whereof men cannot expresse how much nature misliketh and abhorreth the paine In Christ it was otherwise his bodie being in exquisite paines on euery side and in euery part from Christs patience was at the highest proof before he complained on the
the Garden and complained on the Crosse as if he were forsaken which things they thought vnfit for him that was God The Fathers to repell their heresie and to open this obscuritie insist plainly on these points that the Mediatour must be God as well as man and that the Godhead of Christ incarnate was impassible and could not suffer any violence or change but his manhood might and did suffer somethings in soule as feare and sorow and somethings in bodie as paines and death But generally when they speake of death they neuer intend as you doc the death of Christes soule as well as of his bodie but they meane plainly the death of the Crosse described by the Euangelists which is farre from the second death or the death of the damned c Defenc. pag. 111. li. 36. The very same doth Hilarie also where he sayth that this in Christ was Corporis vox The outcrie of his bodie he plainly meaneth it of his whole manhood the opposition being betweene it and his Godhead as the Scripture often doth If your authoritie be such that you may take bodie for soule and life for death where you will you may soone make a shew that the Fathers intend nothing against your doctrine but if you must proue it as well as say it then is it the most riotous and most ridiculous course that can be to take one contrarie for another for so you may proue darknesse to be light vice to be vertue falshood to be trueth and infidelitie to be faith What the Fathers taught touching the death of Christes soule when we come to the place we shall plainly see by their owne asserting and not by your peruerting in the meane time you were best bring stronger proofes than these that you will take the bodie for the soule if you meane to conclude any thing out of the Fathers for your croslegged doctrine d Trea. pag. 9. The Scripture often doth the like you say as you haue shewed in your Treatise There you haue childishly abused a number of Scriptures and yet no way prooued that any where the bodie signifieth the soule or standeth for the soule That the soule is a consequent to the bodie and the bodie likewise a consequent to the soule wheresoeuer The sââ¦ule is a cââ¦nsequent to ãâã ãâã ãâã but no part of it the Scripture speaketh of men liuing heere on earth is a sure and safe rule because no man heere liueth that doeth not consist of soule and bodie yet that is no proofe that what is attributed to the bodie must be verified of the soule much lesse that the one must be taken for the other Looke but to your owne examples where bodie is named e Rom. 6. Let not sinne reigne in your mortall bodies sayth the Apostle If here you will comprehend the soule vnder the name of the bodie you must grant in exact words that the soule is mortall which is an open heresie destroying the summe and effect of the Christian faith Againe f 1. Cor. 6. Euery sinne that a man doth is without the body but the fornicato-sinneth against his owne bodie If in this place the bodie conclude the soule then euery sinne saue fornication is without soule and body and consequently no sinne which is a doctrine a man would thinke meet for no Diuine The third instance which you bring hath not so grosse sequels but as plaine falshoods g Hebr. 10. Sacrifice and burnt offerings thou wouldest not but a bodie hââ¦st thou ordained me whereof the sacrifices offered by the Law were h Ibid. vers 1. shadowes Now did the bodies of beasts slaine or their bloud shed prefigure the Soule of Christ or the death of his bodie These be the places on which you build your vnsound obseruation that the Scripture doth often take the bodie for the soule which are so sensibly false that they need no Refuter But we reason of death which seuereth the soule from the bodie and therein to say the bodie must be taken for the soule is a very sincke of sottish absurdities and falsities For what can be more repugnant to trueth and sense than to take a dead bodie for a liuing soule and when they are so farre seuered by nature to say they must agree in name and the one be called the other Peruse now the Fathers which you would faine wrest to your purpose and see whether they doe not flatly contradict your deuice that the body in their speaches must be taken for the whole man and so the death of Christes body for the death as well of soule as of the body Epiphanius is the first that you would frustrate with your deuices and the first that shall conuince your falshood He saith the manhood of Christ spake these words Now seeing the deity together with the soule moouing to forsake his sacred body What death call you that where the soule moueth and forsaketh the body then in that complaint of Christs the thing forsaken was his body alone by the iudgement of Epiphanius and the deity i Epiph. contra ãâã ãâã 69. ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã together with the soule did mooue ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to forsake that sacred body Which way doth this prooue the soule or the whole manhood of Christ to be forsaken when Epiphanius expresly saith the deity with the soule did mooue to forsake the body Hilarie is the next whom you would infect with your fansie but finding no words in him meet for your matter you are forced shamefully to misconster the body for the soule and the death of the one for the death of the other which is all the hold you haue in Hilarie though you lustily would beare out the rest with the copy of your countenance Notwithstanding Hilarie doth not only preuent but also refute your mistaking For in plaine words he saith k ãâã ãâã ãâã 10. Querela derelicti morientis infirmit as est traditio spirit us morientis excessio est The complaint of Christ that he was forsaken was the infirmity of one dying the yeelding vp his spirit was his departure hence when he died And againe Tradens spiritum mortuus est Christ died by deliuering vp his spirit Sepultus est Christus quia mortuus est mortuus autem est quia moriturus locutus est Deus Deus meus quare me dereliquisti Christ was buried because he was dead and ready to die he said My God my God why hast thou forsaken me So that Christes death when he spake those words was not past nor present but then to come as Hilarie noteth by the future tence and was the deliuering vp of his spirit into his fathers hands I trust you dare not defend that Christ in or after the deliuering vp of his spirit suffered the paines of hell or the second death and yet saith Hilarie those words Christ spake of his death that was to come Tertullian is the last whose words though
you mightily mistake mistranslate yet make they nothing for you but against you directly Writing against Praxeas that denied the Father and the Sonne to be two distinct persons and taught that the Father became sonne to himselfe l ãâã ãâã ãâã ca. 2. and was made man and crucisied after many proofes to shew the person of the sonne to be different from the person of the father he citeth those words of Christ on the crosse My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and saith m Ibid. ca. 30. hââ¦c vox carnis animae idest hominis non sermonis nec spiritus id est Dei propterea emissa est vt impassibilem Deum ostenderet qui sic filium dereliquit dum hominem eius trââ¦didit in mortem Caeterum non reliquit Pater Filium in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Ita relinqui a Patre fuit mori filio This voice of the flesh and soule that is of the man not of the word nor of the spirit that is not of God was therefore spoken to shew that God is impassible who so left his sonne whiles he deliuered his manhood to death Yet the Father did not altogether forsake the sonne into whose hands the sonne breathed out his spirit For he breathed it out and straighââ¦way died Whiles the spirit remained in the flesh the flesh could not die at all So that to be forsaken of the Father was in the sonne to die Here are the words of Tertullian in order as they stand Where it is euident that he affirmeth no death nor forsaking in Christ but only that when the spirit left the body His words are plaine The Father forsocke not the sonne into whose hands the sonne deposed his spirit For he laid it downe and died So to be forsaken of the Father was this for the sonne to die by laying downe his spirit or soule as before he prooueth Christ did Then suffered Christ no death of the soule since he died not till he breathed out his spirit into his fathers hands and other forsaking the sonne felt none then so to die by the separation of his soule from his body Now touching the voice of the soule and the flesh whereof Tertullian speaketh What forsaking ãâã ãâã of either he maketh three parts in man as the Apostle doth Thess 1 5. verse 23. the spirit the soule and the body and then the soule noteth the operations of life and sense which were to cease for the time by death or els he affirmeth this voice came from both soule and body because the soule was to be separated from her body by death as well as the body to be left dead both which are a kind of forsaking Other death he nameth none here then to die by breathing out the spirit And so long as the spirit abideth in the flesh the flesh he saith cannot die at all Christ therefore endured no death whiles his spirit did abide in his body and consequently no death of the soule and when he breathed out his spirit he straightway died which was the forsaking that he complained of in those words So that all your collections heere out of Tertullian are your additions to Tertullian and not so much as one of them to be found or fet from his text He speaketh not a word that Christ n Defenc. pag. suffered in both these parts from his father nor that this death or forsaking o li. 15. was ment of the flesh and of the 1 12. li. 20. soule as you falsly translate him And as for Tertullians confirming that p li. 26. heresie of Christes being no true naturall man except Christ suffered q li. 23. the stroke of Gods hand in his soule as the proper vengcance of sinne this is your blinde deuice absurdly foisted into Tertullian without any word or letter sounding that way r Defenc. pag. 112. li. 31. This dereliction of which he speaketh is more ãâã the separation of the soule and bodie euen the separation of the deitie from the whole manhood which is the death of the soule I speake nothing here but the Fathers words yea the Scriptures Your setting vnto Tertullian Tertullian nameth no death but of Christes bodie your owne sense is an impudent attempt and the weakest argument that can be when you tell vs he meaneth so though he speake not one word touching the death of the soule but as exactly as he can or should nameth the death of the bodie by this that he sayth Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Christ layd downe his spirit and straightway died For whiles the spirit remained in the flesh the flesh could not die at all What was it to lay downe his spirit into his fathers hands as the Scripture speaketh of Christ on the crosse but to die the death of the body Those very words Tertullian here citeth and vseth and thereby prooueth the Father had not inwardly forsaken the sonne since the sonne by the manifest words of himselfe reported in the Euangelist commended and yeelded his spirit to his fathers hands So that against the death of the soule Tertullians words are pregnant for how did the soule die that was commended into Gods hands and other death Tertullian nameth nor meaneth none but only this Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt Christ laied downe his spirit into his fathers hands and straightway died As for your speaking nothing heere but the fathers and the Scriptures words beware you take not vp the Diuels trade to keepe their words and peruert their sense It is no great mastery to abuse mens words yea the word of God which all Hereticks haue euer drawen to their owne false and wicked purposes s Defenc. pag. 112. li. 34. Your owne place of Epiphanius saith that now his deity departed from his manhood So saith your owne Hilarie also Corporis vox contestata recedentis a se Dei dissidium So saith Ambrose clamauit homo diuinitat is separatione moriturus The man Christ did crie being about to die by the separation of his Godhead You alleage three places to this purpose and either corrupt or peruert all three most apparantly ââ¦piphanius saith that Christs deity TOGETHER WITH THE SOVLE departed from his sacred body which is as plaine a description of bodily death as may be vttered You leaue out the words TOGETHER WITH THE SOVLE as crossing your course and turne the body into the soule meaning by this corruption to load Epiphanius with a sense cleane contrarie to his owne Hilaries words spoken of Christes body you enlarge to the whole manhood of Christ and thence conclude directly against Hilaries meaning and words that the deity departed from both where as Hilarie professeth of Christ t Hilarius
de Trinitate li. 10. Derelinqui se ad mortem questus est sed TVNC confessorem suum secum in Regno Paradisi recepit Christ complained that he was forsaken or left vnto death but EVEN THEN he receiued the Thiefe that consessed him into the kingdome of Paradise iointly with himselfe Ambroses words are u Ambros in Luc. li. 10. de commendatione spiritus in ãâã Patris Clamauit homo diuinitatis sepââ¦ratione moriturus The man Christ cried not then dead in soule when he cried as you would haue it but ready to die or that after should die when he yeelded his spirit into his fathers hands The very next sentence before sheweth that this departing was of the diuinity from the body to leaue that vnto death x Ibidem Euidens manifestatio contestantis Dei secessionem diuinitatis corporis A manifest speach of God witnessing the departure of his diuinity from his bodie So that by no meanes Ambrose euer imagined that Christes soule died but as he expresseth himselfe in the same Chapter y Ibidem Caro moritur vt resurgat spiritus Patri commendatur vt pax fuerit in Caelo The flesh dieth that it might rise againe the spirit is commended to God the father that peace might be established in the heauens Thus shortly haue you taken the paines to produce three Fathers for the death of Christes soule and haue as shamefully peruerted and inuerted euery one of them which is no newes with you and yet all that you can conclude out of them may amount to a pestilent heresie if you will that the vnion of Christes person was dissolued for the time of his death but it can neuer inferre any thing pertinent to your purpose z Defenc. pag. 113. li. 4. Here the Fathers do sââ¦ew indeed that Christ died but more than a meere bodily death euen the death of the soule also Heere the Fathers are exquisitly belied and falsified otherwise that Christes soule died they offer neither word nor syllable sounding that way And though you can not speake trueth in so false a cause yet you should learne to speââ¦ke coherently You grant they auouch here that Christ died the death of the bodie and more euen the death of the soule also whereas it is euident by the words of the holy ghost as also by your owne positions that Christ neither did nor could die these two deaths at one time For by the manifest witnesse of the Euangelist Christ a Luc. 22. ãâã his spirit into his Fathers ãâã and so died Then most certeinly the soule of Christ was accepted and receiued into the hands of God which I trow is life and not death when the bodie was left to death Wherefore if their words concerne his bodily death they by no meanes admix the death of the soule since they all affirme aâ⦠the Scripture doth that Christ committed his soule to his Fathers hands and so died of which death they say he spake in those words Why hast thou left me that is to die as they expound it Now if you affixe any death to the soule of Christ I hope you will free him from it before he commended his soule into his Fathers hands And so the one must be ended before the other could enter and consequently if they spake of the latter their words haue no intent to implie the other But what dispute we of their meaning when their words are so manifest that you can not hale them to your hell-paines but by shamefull corrupting of their sentences and wilfull misconstruing the bodie for the soule b Defenc. pag. 113. li. 6. What is the separation of the deitie from his soule els but the death of his soule Which of these Fathers doth auouch the separation of Christes deitie from his soule Is it so small a mote in your eye that Christes deitie was separated from his humane soule that you may loosely and lightly surmise it by disordering and altering other mens words At this speech of Ambrose you could not so grosly haue stumbled had you but read the Master of the Sentences who long since in one whole distinction of his third booke examined those words and answered as the trueth is that separation in that place was taken for want of protection and withholding Christes power whiles the bodie died c Sententiarum li. 3. dist 21. Separauit se ãâã ãâã subtraxu protectionem Separauit se foris vt non esset ad defensionem sed non ãâã defuit ad vnionem Si non ibi cohibuisset potentiam sedexercuisset non ãâã Christus The deitie seuered it selfe because it withdrew protection It separated it selfe outwardly not to defend but if failed not inwardly to continue the vnion If it had not refrained but exercised power Christ could not haue died Theodoret calleth this dereliction d In Psal. 21. The permission of the deitie that the humanitie might suffer And Isychius sayth e ãâã in ãâã li. 5. ca. 16. Diuinit as abijsse dicitur cohibens propriam virtutem ex humanitate vt daret spacium Passioni Christs deitie is sayd to depart by withholding his owne power from his humanitie that he might giue time to his Passion Otherwise it is a certaine truth which ââ¦ulgentius teacheth f Ad ãâã lib. 3. Licet in Christi morte carnem morieââ¦tem fuisset anima desertura diuinit as tamen Christi nec ab anima nec à carne posset separari suscepta Though in Christes death the soule were to forsake the bodie dying yet the deitie of Christ could not be seuered from the soule nor from the bodie once assumed g Defenc. pag. 113. li. 7. Howbeit note I pray that neither the Fathers nor I do meane any separating of the vnion of both natures in Christ nor the separating of any holinesse or habituall grace of God from his soule nor the separating of Gods loue from him but the separation of all comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead This separation is meant and may be called the death of the soule If you separate none of these what then is it that you separate from the soule of Christ to proue it dead All comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead He knew himselfe to be personally God and man he saw his soule full of all truth and grace he was assured the loue of God towards him could neither faile nor change he knew that his obedience and sacrifice were acceptable to his Father and should be the redemption of the world and he was most certaine that the third day he should rise againe into immortall and celestiall glory hauing men diuels and angels euen all things in heauen and earth subiect to his manhood Were all these no comforts or was there no assistance of the Godhead in these Nay take but your owne words a little before that Christ on the crosse euen when he complained of his forsaking was in h Pag.
to all that obey him but that he must be God aswel as man to be able to suffer the paines of hell the second death that is a new deuice of yours not conuerting the Godhead of Christ to the infinitenesse of his merits but abusing it to the infinitenesse of his paines to make place for your new-found hell from the immediate hand of God where Scripture mentioneth no such thing in the worke of our redemption but plainly and fairely teacheth vs that we are k Rom. 5. reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne who l Coloss. 1. by the bloud of his Crosse procured perfect peace in heauen and in earth and restored vs to the fauour of God through death in the bodie of his flesh in which he m Rom. 8. condemned sinne that we might be n Heb. 10. sanctified by the offering of his bodie once made on the altar of the Crosse. And this doctrine so euidently and frequently deliuered by the Holy Ghost in the sacred Scriptures is so sufficient that I see no cause nor need of your hell paines besides no warrant nor witnesse of them except we dreame that the spirit of God did not well vnderstand or could not aptly expresse your hellish mysteries which he alwaies ouerpasseth with silence when hee speaketh of the purgation of our sinnes and our redemption by the precious bloud of the Lambe vnspotted and vndefiled If therefore it be not lawfull in the highest points of faith to adde ought to the word of God nor to thinke that the spirit of Trueth faileth or defecteth in his instruction vnto trueth I do not see with what dutie to God you and others may be so bolde with the Sonne of God as to subiect his soule to the second death and to the paines of the damned when the Scriptures offer vs no such part or point of our beliefe o Defenc. pag. 121. li. 36. You seeme to grant vnto Christ all naturall sorrow and feare neither doe we seeke any more but you trust the paine of the damned is more than a naturall oppressing and afflicting of the heart with humane feare and sorow For sooth it is not It is no more than a very naturall humane feare and sorow It proceedeth immediately and principally from God himselfe who is the Nature of Natures Also mans nature is apt to receiue such sorow and feare from him Thus the very paines of the damned are meerely naturall If you make vs many such conclusions you will proue your selfe a meere Naturall For if all things be meerely naturall to man that God either bestoweth or inflicteth on man then grace and glorie are meerely naturall to man yea heauen it selfe is as naturall to man as hell and the Holy Ghost himselfe shall become meerely naturall to man for God doth giue and we p Rom. 8. receiue the spirit of adoption whereby we crie Abba Father yea the second person in Trinitie is inseparably ioyned to mans nature and as well the ââ¦ather as the Sonne q 1. Ioh. 4. abide and r 2. Cor. 6. dwell in all the Saints So that the coniunction communion and inhabitation of the godhead in man is meerly naturall vnto man by your doctrine and not only God but the Diuell is as naturall to man and so are those things which are most vnnaturall and most repugnant to mans nature For man doth and suffereth them by and from God or the Diuel As corruption and incorruption mortality and immortality righteousnesse vnrighteousnesse saluation and destruction eternall life and eternall death are meerly naturall to man by your learned discourse which if you persist to defend take heed least men doubt whether frensie be naturall to you or no. Natural I called not whatsoeuer is any way incident to men in this life or the next but that which is generall necessary to all men in that they are men Wherfore I make neither hell nor heauen naturall vnto men since the one God giueth by his power and grace aboue our nature for our nature is not to be as the Angels of God and in the other by iustice and wrath God worketh against our nature For that fire should euerlastingly burne and flesh euerlastingly dure therein and soules be extreamely tormented therewith are to my vnderstanding farre beyond nature except you beââ¦eaue God of his almighty power and will which the Scriptures confesse in him and call him by the name of nature which is no more but the condition and operation that he hath assigned in this world to euery creature If you would needs know whence I tooke the word naturall read either Fulgentius or Damascene and you shall soone see what they and I meane by nature s Tulgentiâ⦠ad Trasimundum li. tertio Because Christ saith Fulgentius tooke vpon him to be a true man ideo cunct as naturae humanae infirmitates ver as quidem sedvoluntarias sustinuit therefore he sustained all the infirmities of mans nature truely but voluntarily and so Damascene t Damas. li. 3. ca. 20. We confesse that Christ vndertooke all naturall and sinlesse passions Naturall and sinlesse passions are those which entered into mans life by the condemnation of Adams transgression as hunger thirst wearinesse labour weeping shunning of death feare agonie and such like which are naturally in all men So that what is geneââ¦all and necessarie to all men in this life is naturall to man which I trust neither hell nor heauen is though by iustice or mercie all men after this life shall feele the one or enioy the other u Defââ¦nc pag. 122. li. 6. Supernaturall I graunt they are if we meane this that they are aboue our natures state to beare or to comprehend them If your rule be true that men naturally receiue the paines of hââ¦ll why should not mans nature as well beare them or compââ¦ehend them as receiue them except you meane the bearing of them with patience or comprehending the end of them what punishment men receiuâ⦠that they beare x Gala 5. He that troubleth you shall be are his condemnation whosoeuer he be And againe y Gala 6. euery man shall beââ¦re his own burden And so elsewhere z Ephes. 3. I bow my knees vnto the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ that he will grant you that ye may be strengthened by his spirit in the inward man that ye may be able to COMPREHEND with all Saints what is the breadth length and depth and height and to know the loue of Christ which passeth the knowledge of man And if men shall feele the paines of hell why shall they not comprehend that which they feele They shall apprehend no end nor ease thereof but feeling is a comprehension of the paine though it shall be so great that they cannot endure it with any patience And yet since you striue for the paines of hell in the soule of Christ aduise you whether Christ shall
So that all your platforme is quite ouerthrowen by the direct words of the Apostle freeing Christ and all his elect euen in this life from all power of the second death And therefore you set your selfe in this section euidently to confront the holy Ghost when you seeke to proue that Christ suffered the second death of the soule as the Scripture speaketh And besides the Scriptures if you talke of second deaths you may as well tell vs tales of a new world as of an other word without the witnesse of Gods spirit But you haue found out many places of Scripture where this last kinde of death is so called and named Eight you quote by the side in your margine but take not the paines to discusse one of them onely you pronounce after your stately manner that those places of Scripture prooue that which you meane to bee the death of the soule Now what if not one of them speake any such thing is not your Reader sure to find you a true man of your word when you quote eight places and not one of them to your purpose but this is your perpetuall course to mistake and misuse Scriptures at your pleasure and then to say you haue soundly prooued it On the contrary I affirme that none of these places intend any such thing as you imagine of your terrestiall and temporall hell but they exactly conclude against you that damnation is eternall and no death of the soule which is not euerlasting is expressed or intended in any of those Scriptures or in any other that you or your friends are able to picke out And though it may suffice me as well to say nay as you to say yea yet for the Readers better resolution I will not bee grieued to run through all these places as much as shal be needfull The first is l Ezech. 18. ver 4. the soule that ââ¦inneth it shall die These words may signifie either subtraction of grace in this life which is consequent to sinne in the wicked or exclusion Eight places of Scripture abused for the temporall death of Christs soulâ⦠from glory in the next world which is the iust and full wages of sinne But that euery soule which sinneth hath felt or shall feele in this life your temporall hell or the pains of the damned this is a grosse error to be fathered on those words and repugnant not onely to the trueth of this text but euen to the sense and experience of all the Godly and such as your selfe dare not auouch since you qualifie your conceit in that behalfe with these words that m Defenc. pag. 134. li. 15. some in some measure are conformed with Christ in these his sufferings But if God by Ezechiel ment your earthly hell then absolutely all men children not excepted must feele in this life paines equall with the damned for so much as they haue sinned and deserued euerlasting damnation The second is the commination that God made to Adam n Genes 2. ver 17. Whensoeuer thou ââ¦atest thereof thou shalt die the death or surely thou shalt die Here are all sorts of deaths threatned but not to be executed either on all men nor in this present life God reseruing to himselfe power and libertie to dispose of all mens soules according to his determinate counsell though they should all be guiltie and liable to all kinds of death by vertue of those words vpon the transgression of the first man This exposition the Apostle giueth when he saith o Rom. 5. The offence of one came on all men to condemnation which is the verifying of these words that all men died in Adam to wit were subiect to death not onely by dying the death of the bodie which is appointed for all men but to the guiltinesse of euerlasting death not executed on all though deserued by all The third which is the p Rom. 6. Apostles conclusion is either generally ment of all kinds of death which came in by sinne as the rewards and punishments thereof and then it is nothing to your intention or else it expresseth the full wages of sinne to be euerlasting death by opposition to eternall life mentioned in the next wordes following For eternall life is the gift of God as eternall death is the wages that is bothe the desert and repayment of sinne Take which you will either the generall or speciall construction of death it is no way pertinent to your purpose Lesse is the fourth that the Apostles were the q 2. Cor. 2. vers 16. sauour of death vnto death in them that perished as they were the sauour of life vnto life in them that were saued For the preaching of the Gospell which the Apostle meaneth in that place doeth not proclaime a terrestiall or temporall heauen to them that beleeue in Christ but life eternall and consequently neither doth it denounce a temporall death to them which refuse Christ but euerlasting death And therefore there can be nothing more absurd then to conuert these places to the proofe of your temporall hell for so you should doe the reprobate a very good turne if you could shew that the death threatned them for not beleeuing in Christ were to dure but for a time or in this life only where your new found hell hath power and place and no where else With like successe you note for your fifth that the r 2 Cor. 3. vers 7. ministration of death was glorious the Apostle so calling the law because it denounced death not temporall but eternall to all transgessours So that if the full wages of sinne be eternall death by the word of God then did the law not denounce a temporall death due to all men by course of nature be they good or bad though euen that at first entered as a part of the punishment of sinne but euerlasting death which is the second death is reserued as S. Iohn writeth for all sorts of sinners and liers Saint Iames is the sixth who sayth s Iames 5. He that conuerteth a sinner erring from the trueth shall saue a soule from death If a man conuerted shall be saued from your temporall hell which you here would intend by the death of the soule then much more the Conuerter and he that neuer erred from the trueth shall be free from your hell and consequently Christ was most free who was trueth it selfe and neuer erred But as trueth is the way to euerlasting life and freeth men from all bondage of sinne and Satan so errour and infidelitie haue another maner of death than your terrestiall hell which you make common to Christ and some of his members and he that is conuerted from errour or sinne shall be saued from euerlasting perdition which indeed is the death of the soule depriuing it of all blisse and ioy for euer The seuenth and eigth you take out of Saint Iohn who sayth t 1. Ioh. 5. vers 16 17. There is sinne vnto
world the death of the bodie that hence both body and soule might be haled to hell though first the soule and after the bodie when at the last day it shall rise from the corruption of the graue to euerlasting destruction To thinke that Christ submitted himselfe to all these sorts of death corporall spirituall and eternall is most hellish blasphemie for so he should not haue redeemed vs but destroyed himselfe bodie and soule foreuer To say that Christ deliuered vs not from all these lincks of death from spirituall death whiles here we liue from eternall death after this life and at the generall resurrection from the power of the graue where our bodies rot in the meane time is heathenish impietie and heresie denying the whole force and fruit of our redemption by Christ. Since then he cleered vs from all and yet suffered not all sorts of death it is manifest which is the Apostles meaning in the wordes by you cited that by one kind of death which in Christ was corporall he freed vs from all power of death heere and heereafter in bodie and soule not preseruing our bodies that they should not turne to dust but restoring them after death which is the farre more marueilous and mightie worke of God And this is euery where so plainly witnessed in the Scriptures and plentifully confessed by the learned and auncient fathers that none but he that is blinder then a bat would professe he seeth no such thing Christ g Matth 20. gaue his life a ransome for many and h Coloss. 2. by the bloud of his crosse pacified things in heauen and in earth i Hebr. 9. By the sacrifice of his bodie once made we are sanctified and k 1. Peter 1. healed by his stripes who bare our sinnes in his bodie on the tree If then the bloud of Christ clense vs from all sinne by which the diuell and death had power ouer vs It is most certaine that Christ abolished sinne and Satan by suffering his bloud to be shed vnto death for the remission of sinnes raising himself that is the Temple of his bodie from death into a glorious and blessed life by which the power and kingdome of Satan were vtterly ouerthrowen l Defenc. pag. 137. li. 15. Against this you haue no reason at all but wordes and wrestings and vaine oftentation of Fathers none of them all denying our sense The reason of all reasons is against it which is that no man nor Angell may adde or alter any thing in the Christian faith without the sure warrant of the sacred Scriptures m Rom. 10. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God It is reason enough for me and for all ââ¦he faithfull that there is no such thing deliuered in the word of God You talke of words and wrestings as knowing them best and vsing them most and herein I am content to stand to the iudgement of the wise and indifferent Reader whether you haue brought ought yet for the death of Christes soule or his suffering the second death but your owne speaches and surmises abusing the wordes of the holy Ghost to your owne fansies without either cause or colour And touching the vaine ostentation of Fathers who as you vaunt deny not your sense I brought ancient learned writers not ignorant of the Christian faith as being the pillars of their times that with great perspicuitie and vehemence denied as I doe the death of Christs soule and affirmed with me the death which Christ suffered in the body of his flesh to be a most sufficient ransome for the sinnes of the whole world Augustins words were n August epist. 99. The same flesh in which only Christ died rose againe by the quickning of the spirit For that Christ was dead in soule that is in his humane spirit who dare ãâã since the death of the soule in this life is none else but sinne from which he was altogether free This you say denieth not your sense and why because you auouch the death of Christs soule which Austen asketh who dare auouch to say that Christ suffered the death of the soule is with Austen an impudent and wicked presumption and no part of the Christian faith or of mans redemption Austen by the death of the soule ment sinne you will say which you meane not You say by your leaue that Christ o Trea. pa. 42. li. 20. became defiled and hatefull to God by our sinnes And so if pollution of sinne be the death of the soule that kind of death you ascribe to Christ though not for his owne sinnes yet for ours then made his no lesse by guilt then by punishment as you teach directly against the assertion of Saint Austen who saith p August contra Faââ¦stum li. 14. ca. 4. Christ tooke our punishment without our guilt that thereby he might release our guilt and end our punishment But you vnderstand not Austen when he saith there is no death of the soule here but sinne he doth not thence exclude the consequents and adherents to sinne in this life but noteth that onely sinne doth kill the soule because it doth separate vs from God who is the life of the soule and the light and grace of God departing from the soule by sinne the soule dieth that is looseth all her sense of God and motion to God by which she liueth vnto God This with Austen and this indeede by the word of God is the death of the soule which if you attribute to Christ you incurre open and exquisite infidelitie For your meaning therefore it maketh no great matter if you will offer to correct our Creede you must speake as the Scriptures speake and not deliuer ââ¦s your priuate dreames for the publike doctrine of Christs Church With like neglect you skip the rest auouched by Saint Austen that Christ died onely in his flesh which rose againe by the quickning of the spirit Wherein least you should vse your accustomed euasion that the flesh of Christ compriseth as well his soule as his bodie Saint Austen hath wisely preuented you in saying the same flesh onely died Which rose againe Where if your learning serue you to say that Christes soule rose againe the third day you shall make vs a new resurrection of soules after this life as the Scripture doth of bodies which were a meete deuice for such a diuine as you are How beit Saint Austen naming Christs soule a part from his flesh and affirming of Christs soule that no man in his right wits dare auouch Christs soule died but onely that flesh which rose againe it is as cleere as mans speech may be that he vtterly refuseth the death of Christs soule as an irreligious and vnchristian position and directly teacheth this as a ground confessed in Christian religion that Christ died in his bodie alone which rose againe the third day and not in his soule which no Christian man durst auouch was euer dead Of
these and such like actions and passions with the bodie For the force to doe and since to feele is from the soule and so in the death of the bodie the soule is partaker with the bodie not to lie dead and senselesse as the bodie doth but to feele the paine of death and suffer the separation from the bodie ãâã the effects of death appeare in the bodie But that the soule doth die when the whole compound of bodie and soule dieth is no consequent neither in Philosophie nor Diuinitie z Defenc. pag. 137. li. 20. The text heere speaketh as I iudge of the whole and intire sufferings of Christ. The text heere speaketh of death bereauing life which was after re-ââ¦stored when Christes bodie was againe quickned by the power of his spirit the rest of Christes sufferings during the whole time of his life are not comprised in the name of death otherwise Peter must haue sayd Christ was alwayes dead since his affections ãâã with circumcision if not before which is no part of Peters speach nor meaning yea rather it is repugnant to both since Peter saith Christ a 1. Peter 3. suffered once fââ¦r sinnes when he was put to death and not euer and alwayes whiles he liued on ââ¦arth b Defenc pag. 137. li. 35. Against this obseruation what pretended you some Scriptures palpably abused first Matthew where Christ speaketh of his Disciples that their spirit their inward regenerate man was ready to watch bââ¦t their flesh their corrupt Nature was weake and sluggish ãâã is this to Christs flesh and spirit If my authoritie were as good as yours and my learning as great I could say as you doe I iudge it so but if I shew not better reason for me to aââ¦firme those wordes Christ ment of himselfe then you doe or can that he ment them not of himselfe I am content your consistorian seeming shall goe before my laborious proouing my vse is not to relie too much on mine owne iudgement as you doe though I thanke God I can examine both your and other mens interpretations but when I finde a thing maturely and rightly considered and concoââ¦ded by the learned and auncient Fathers in matters of faith or exposition of the Scriptures I goe not easily from them Tertullian saith c Tertullianus de suga in persecutione Christ himselfe professed his soule was ãâã vnto death his flesh weake that he might shew to thee there were in himselfe both the substaââ¦ces of man by the propertie of heauinesse in the soule and weakenesse in the flesh Athanasius likewise d Athanasius de Passione Cruââ¦e ãâã A little afore his death Christ cried the spirit was willing but the flesâ⦠weakâ⦠that our aduersarie the diuell encountring him as a man might feele his diuine power Theophilus Alexandrinus e ãâã epistola Paschali prima contra Appollinaristas If Christ tooke onely the flesh of man and not the soule of man why in his Passion did he say the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake Ambrose f Ambros. ls 4. in ãâã ca. 4. If Christes body had beene spirituall he would not haue said the spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake Heare the voice of either in Christ as well of weake flesh as of a readie spirit The auncient writer among the works of Saint Austen g De Salutaribus documentis ca. 64. The trueth it selfe our Lord Iesus Christ saith of himselfe the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake Cyrill h Cyrill Thesauri li. 10. ca. 3. Though Christ abhorred death as a man yet as a man he refused not to doe the will of his Father and his owne as God and therefore he said the spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake Vigilius i Vigilius contra ãâã li. 5. ca. 4. What is that wherein he suffered and tried weakenesse but mans nature whereof he said at the time of his passion the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake tasting of which infirmitie he learned to helpe the weake Seuerianus k Seuerianus contra Nonatum citatur a ãâã contra ãâã hem My soule saith Christ is he auic vnto death And interpreting to what his Passions pertained the spirit saith he is ready but the flesh weake Remigius l ãâã in ãâã ãâã 26. ãâã a Tho. ãâã in ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã In these words Christ sheweth that he tooke true flesh of the Virgine and that he had a true soule Wherefore he now saith that his spirit is ready to suffer but that his weake flesh feareth the paine of his Passion Euthymius m ãâã in ãâã My God my God said Christ why hast thou for saken me that is why hast thou left me in this feare knowing my spirit is ready but my flesh weake What thinke you had I no more reason to say as I saide then you haue to denie it where also you may note that all these learned Fathers refuse your lame obseruation as well as I doe and so you had neede seeke some better authoritie then your owne or perhaps some one that ãâã you with this rule seruing to none other end but to helpe forward your hell fansie n ãâã pag. 139. li. 1. Thinke you that Christs soule was willing to suffer as God had appointed but that his flesh resisted veââ¦ily so you seeme heere to vnderstand and it is as likely as your applying of flesh and spirit to Christ in your pag. 104. Put on your visard before you take in hand to controle the iudgement of so many Fathers Your pride is greater then your wit in this and most things that passe your pen. Is it such newes to you for me or for them to say that Christes flesh was weake that is not so ready to suffer as was his soule seeth your mastership no difference betwixt weakenesse and resistance specially when in comparison of the readinesse of the spirit the flesh is said to be weaker that is lesse ready to suffer then the soule doth not the Apostle applie the same word vnto Christ when he saith Christ was o 2. Cor. 13. crucified through weakenesse and long before the Prophet said of Christ p Esa. 53. He is a man full of sorrowes and one that hath experience in infirmites So that your cholor was kindled without cause when you strooke such an heat with my saying that Christs flesh was weake the Prophet foretold he should be a man full of sorrowes and well acquainted with infirmities The vntrue conceit which you challenge in the 104. Page of my Sermons touching Christes flesh where I sayd it must haue force to cleanse and quicken when you impugââ¦e I will defend in the meane time it may serue I savd nothing but what our Saââ¦iour sayd before me q Iob. 6. vers 56. 54. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud dwelleth in me and I in him he hath eternall life and I will raise him vp at the last
day If you could take any hold I doubt not the sharpenesse of your teeth but your foolish conceits are caried like clouds in the aire they rest not before they vanish r Defenc pag. 139. li. 5. Then Luke where both spirit and flesh are not intended of Christ as our obseruation requireth but only the flesh Your obseruation is made to fitte S. Peters words to your fansie For there are not many places in Scripture where spirit and flesh are expressed and intended of the two natures of Christ though in other places some words adioyned doe prooue him to be God as well as man In that of S. Luke Christ doth not denie himselfe to be a diuine spirit for then he were no God since God is a s Iohn 4. spirit nor to haue an humane spirit for then he were no man but that which they saw with their eies he affirmed was flesh and bloud and not any apparition in the shape of a man And the words following t Luke 24. as ye see me to haue containe and note the other part of his humane nature which was his soule and spirit and consequently inferre that he was a man and had an humane spirit though compassed with flesh and bones as we haue u Defenc. pag. 139. li. 7. Then the Romans where I affirme that flesh signifieth the whole manhood of Christ according to the which he came from Dauid euen as well as Salomon or Nathan did who were Dauids sonnes in their intire and perfect nature Whether Christs body without a soule which was but a Carcasse be alwaies in the Scriptures intended by the name of Christs flesh this is not the question there is but one place in the new Testament where Christs flesh importeth his dead body as when Peter saith Christes x Acts 2. flesh saw no corruption but whether whatsoeuer is attributed to Christs flesh with comparison or mention of his diuine nature doe properly agree as well to his soule as to his body this is the thing in question betwixt you and me That the man Christ was borne of the Virgin and died on the Crosse there is no doubt but that his soule was made of the seed of Dauid and circumcised crucified as well as his body this is your error and for this you haue no shew in the word of God and therefore you seeke by rules of your owne making to draw it in by the heeles when you cannot by the head It is but a shift to saue your selfe when you tell your Reader that Christs whole manhood came from Dauid as well as Salomon or Nathan did The point is whether Christes soule were made of the seed of Dauid as well as his body was That I denie and haue the Apostle for my warrant that men are only the y Heb. 12. Fathers of our bodies and God is the immediate Father of our spirits Which if it be true in all men then Salomon and Nathan were the sonnes of Dauid not because their soules were made of the seed of Dauid but only their bodies and yet since they drew as much from their father as children by Gods ordinance do or may do therefore were they the sonnes of Dauid In Christ it is most sure which the Apostle saith that according to the flââ¦sh he was made of the seed of Dauid This by no meanes can be verified of his soule howsoeuer you would slubber it vp by calling his whole manhood the sonne of Dauid which I doe not denie Not that his soule was made of the seed of Dauid as was his body that is an open and an odious error but that his flesh made of the seed of Dauid which was the Virgins body was also quickened with a soule from God in due time that came not out of Dauids loines Euen so the whole man in Christ died on the Crosse not that his soule was depriued of life or left dead as was his body but that the coniunction of soule and body which maketh the whole man was dissolued by death his flesh lying in the graue without corruption and his soule remaining in the hands of God to which it was commended z Defenc. pag. 139. So likewise Christ was kinne to the lewes according to his whole humanity as well as Paul was When you can shew kindred in spirits as well as in flesh that is deriued from parents then say that Paul and Christ were kin to the Iewes according to their whole humanity till you proue that howsoeuer vse of speach may be endured which must be interpreted according to the truth you can neuer conclude there is consanguinity betweene soules as there is betweene bodies And spight of your heart if you will not maintaine vntrueths to vphold your credit as your maner is the Apostle teacheth you how to vnderstand those words that as we haue fathers of our bodies from whom our spirits come not but immediatly from God so kindred and consanguinity which commeth by the parents goeth by flesh and bloud receiued from them and not by soules infused from God S. Iohn leadeth you to the same rule that men are borne of bloud and of the will of the flesh and so by flesh and bloud commeth kindred God giuing soules to quicken their bodies Wherefore the Scriptures when they expresse kindred they note it by flesh and bone As when Laban said to Iacob Thou art my a Gene. 29. bone and my flesh So Iudah of Ioseph b Gene. 37. he is our brother and our flesh So Abimelech to his mothers brethren c Iudic. 9. I am your bone and your flesh And vsualy where kindred is claimed or yeelded the Scriptures expresse it by d 2. Sam. 5. 19 flesh and bones as Adam said to Eue e Gen. 2. This now is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh So that howsoeuer you dreame or talke of the consanguinity of soules it is like the rest of your nouelties which haue no handfast but in your head and the exception taken by me will stand good doe you and your adherents what you can that in these attributes to the manhood of Christ you shall neuer prooue they properly pertaine to both parts but to the whole conioyned or to one part seuerally respected f Defenc. pag. 139. li. 21. Further that which you bring out of the Corinthians compared with this in Peter doth most cleerely open and confirme the same He was crucified touching his infirmitie but liueth by the power of God His soule had infirmities of suffering in it aswell as his bodie therefore his soule also is vnderstood here that it was crucified and died that is according to the condition thereof You proue not what you promise but pronounce what you please which if any man will suffer you to doe we shall soone haue a new Church a new Faith and all things new Afore you pretended rules at least though void of reason and trueth now you
bend against all rules of learning Logicke Grammar and Diuinitie For I pray you in Grammar what is ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã here vsed by the Apostle Are the parts heere noted that were crucified and raised to life or the cause from which first death was suffered and after life was recouered by our Sauiour A man would thinke that ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã were by or through weaknesse euen as ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã is by or through the power of God Christ then was crucified not by the immediate hand of God but by the Iewes who could not crucifie his soule as they did his bodie If you know not who crucified Christ reade the Gospell afresh or hearken to S. Peter who sayd to the Iewes g Act. 2. Iesus of Nazaret haue ye taken by the hands of the wicked and crucified and slaine and proclaimed openly to the Rulers of the people and Elders of Israel h Act. 4. Be it knowen to you all and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Iesus Christ of Nazaret whom ye haue crucified whom God raised againe from the dead by him this Creeple standeth whole before you The Iewes then i 1. Cor. 2. crucified the Lord of glorie who could not kill the soule but onely the bodie Therefore they crucified onely his bodie and other crucifiers of Christ the Scripture nameth none How come you then against all learning and trueth to collect that Christs soule was crucified k Defenc. pag. 139. li. 25. His infirmitie the text heere nameth metonimically vnderstanding in Christ that in which his infirmities were When the plaine text will not serue your turne you fasten what you list with figures to it and then by as good Logicke you change a part into the whole and conclude like a Doter in Diuinitie for you skorne all degrees as you doe all rules of Schoole that Christs soule was nailed to the crosse for that is crucifying and died as well as his body These be woonderous leapes in my small vnderstanding and such as few men but you could light on so readily In stââ¦d of the Apostles speech that Christ was crucified ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã through infirmitie or by reason of infirmitie voluntarily imbraced whiles he submitted himselfe to his Fathers will to clap in this conclusion that Christ was crucified and died as well in soule as in body Had you liued in former ages what heresies could not you haue deduced from the text it selfe if not by Grammaticall or Logicall inference yet by metonymicall and metaphoricall excurrence Sampsons riddle was out of the strong came sweetnesse and we may say out of the weake commeth bitternesse l Defenc. pag. 139. li. 37. Other reasons also I noted seruing well heereunto but I omit to rehearse them againe For it seemeth your selfe agreeth with vs in them holding expresly that the spirit heere in Peter is the Deitie of Christ according to Austins iudgement Now this being granted and acknowledged how can it be likely but that the other opposite part of the flesh must needes import his whole and entire Manhood m Pag. 140. li. 11. Now this being so then it followeth by the text that Christ in his Passion was done to death both in soule and body Your other reasons tended after your maner to shew that spirit in Peters words did not signifie the soule of Christ to which I said nothing because I therein agreed with you Where then you conclude ouer-hastily that therefore it signifieth the Deitie of the second person in Trinitie the text enforceth no such thing as that the second person in Trinitie did in the daies of Noe preach by his owne Godhead and not by his spirit n Gene. 6. The Lorde said my spirit shall not alway strine with man his daies shall be 120. yeeres Which whether we take to be the wordes of the Father or the Sonne by the spirit there is ment the holy Ghost which proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne and is called the spirit of them both and did by the tongue of Noe the Preacher of righteousnesse witnesse the iudgement of God to come by the floud vpon the wicked and disobedient world By this power of his which is his spirit God quickned the humane flesh of Christ when it was crucified and dead in the graue and by the same spirit shall he restore and quicken all the bodies of the faithfull after they be turned to dust And although I haue no doubt but the workes of the Trinitie towards all creatures are vndeuided and the power of the Father is the power of the Sonne yet when the Scriptures doe testifie that Christes humane flesh was quickned by the spirit we must vnderstand the holy Ghost God the Father raising his Sonne and the Sonne raising himselfe by the spirit of sanctification which is the power of the Father and of the Sonne So speaketh the Apostle to the Romanes o Rom. 1. Christ made of the seede of Dauid as touching the flesh and declared to be the Sonne of God with power through the spirit of sanctification by the resurrection from the dead Where his flesh made of the seede of Dauid prooueth him to be a true man and the mightie declaration of him to be the Sonne of God sheweth his Diuine nature and glorie which most appeared by the woonderfull works and gifts of the spirit of sanctification powred out on all his after he was once riââ¦en from the dead Least you thinke this my deuice to defeate your obseruation heare what the learned and auncient Fathers say thereof Chrysostome vpon those wordes of Paule Christ was declared to be the Sonne of God with power through the spirit of sanctification p Chrysoââ¦t in epistolam ad Romanos ho-ââ¦l 1. The fourth argument of Christs Diuinitie is drawen saith he from the spirit which he gaue to those that beleeued in him and by which he sanctified them all Wherefore Paule saith through the spirit of sanctification For onely God was able to giue those kindes of giftes Ierom. Through the spirit of sanctification Paul q Hieron in ca. 1. epistola ad Romanos noteth heere the holie Ghost the Creator Ambrose Paul r Ambros inca primum ãâã ad Romanos calling Christ the Sonne of God sheweth God to be his father and adding the spirit of sanctification noteth the mistery of the Trinity Augustine that Paul saith s August in expositio inchoata epistolae ad Rom. Through the spirit of sanctification he meaneth because they receaued the gift of the spirit after Christs resurrection Theodoret the Apostle heere teacheth t Theodoretus in ca. 1. epist. ad Rom. that he who was called the Sonne of Dauid according to the flesh was declared to be the sonne of God by the power which was shewed from the holy Ghost after our Lord Iesus was risen from the dead Oecumenius u Oecumenius in
ca. 1. epist. ad Rom. through the spirit of sanctification He meaneth by the holy Ghost which Christ gaue to the beleeuers in him Theodulus x Theodulus in cap. 1. ãâã ad Romanos through the spirit of sanctification that is by the holy spirit which Christ gaue to those that beleeued in him Theophylactus y Theophylact. in ca. 1. epist. ad Romanos by the spirit of sanctification that is by the spirit with which he maketh the beleeuers holy Haymo z Haymo in ca. 1. epistolae ad Romanos the spirit of sanctification is heere taken for the holy Ghost who giueth sanctity to men and Angels who also fashioned quickened and sanctified Christs manhood in the Virgins womb of the seed of the Virgin without the seed of man The new writers with one consent as Erasmus Zuinglius Peter Martyr Bullinger Musculus Gualter Hemmingius Aretius and Caluine himselfe follow the same interpretation so that your obseruation against and after all their iudgements is misbegotte and borne out of time and brought in of purpose to paue the way for your new found fansies which haue no ground but in your new made notes as much crossing probabilitie as authoritie Yea the obseruation wrongeth the distinction of the persons in the most blessed Trinitie and dishonoreth rather the Deitie of the Sonne of God then aduanceth it whiles the Sonne of God and the spirit of holinesse being both expresly named you take them both for one person and make the Sonne of God in his diuine nature to be lesse then the possessor or giuer of life and righteousnesse eueu a receauer of both For in all these places where you say the name of spirit is vsed to signifie Christs Godhead the power and worke of the holy Ghost is there intended and expressed as that Christ was a Rom. 1. declared to be the Sonne of God by the spirit of sanctification and was b 1. Tim. 3. God manifested in the flesh iustified by the spirit as also c 1. Pet. 3. mortified in the flesh but quickned by the spirit The spirit of sanctification is the title of the holy Ghost sanctifying as well the Manhood of Christ as his members and the giuing thereof declareth the Sonne to be true God whose spirit this is as well as the Fathers and by whom the Sonne worketh as well as the Father And where it is written that Christ was Iustified and quickned by the spirit if there you reade in the spirit meaning in the Deitie of Christ then Christes Godhead receaued life and righteousnesse which by your leaue is a speech ne allowed ne frequented in the Scriptures For though the second person in Trinitie by his internall and eternall generation receaued all that he hath from the Father who begat him yet of this generation which is secret substantiall and eternall the Apostles speake not when they say Christ was quickned and iustified but the one sheweth that Christes body which was put to death was raised againe to life by the power of his spirit the other noteth that he was God manifested in the flesh and iustified that is prooued and confirmed so to be by the mightie workes and graces of Gods spirit shewed as well in his owne person as in all his members For that is the intent of the Apostles wordes not that his diuine glorie was onely praised or acknowledged of men but that the world beleeued the Angels admired the spirit iustified that is most mightily and cleerely witnessed him to be God manifested in the flesh Then hath your obseruation his full discharge since there is no one place where these wordes the spirit and flesh are applied to Christ to note his two natures though his Godhead be testified and plainely prooued in most of the same places by more pregnant wordes then spirit which is common to Angels soules and windes and onely sheweth that it is no palpable or sensible body where the name of spirit alone in the Scriptures standing for the third person in Trinity noteth the power and grace of the holy Ghost by which these things were wrought for Christs manhood And in that place of Peter on which you most depend if you follow the Syriac translation to which your owne adherents so often appeale the Apostles words are Christ was dead in body but liuââ¦d in spirit which conuinceth first that flesh is there taken for the body of Christ contrary to your obseruation and that Christ still liued in spirit which euerteth your maine conclusion intended from this place for the death of Christs soule But were it as you suppose that flesh and spirit were ascribed to Christ to declare his two natures the one to be corporall and humane the other to be spirituall and diuine how doth it follow that euery thing affirmed of his manhood must properly agree both to body and soule by what Logicke conclude you that you may as well auouch that Christs soule is truely corporall or carnall because it is comprised vnder the name of flesh as that other attributes of the body are verified in the soule Which if you thinke absurd though the name of flesh by a figure of speach import the whole man because the Scripture speaketh not of a dead but of a liuing man then is there lesse cause that ech action or passion affirmed of the flesh should exactly or properly be referred to the soule since the common vse of speach intending the whole by a part is figuratiue and in figuratiue speaches as where the soule or the flesh are taken for the whole man the attributes cannot be properly restrained to ech part no more then the names are And euen out of those places by which you would collect death to be common to the body and soule of Christ the auncient fathers conclude death to be proper to the body of Christ and not common to the soule as Austin out of Saint Peter d August ãâã 99. Quid est enim quòd viuificatus est spiritu nisi quââ¦d eadem caro qua sola fuer at mortificat us viuificante spiritu resurrexit What other meaning hath this that Christ was quickned by the spirit but that the same flesh in which onely he was put to death rose againe by the quickning of the spirit And Cyrill e Cyrill de recta fide ad ãâã li. 2. Was it not a worke of infirmitie to endure the crosse I confesse saith Paul hee was weake in the flesh but he reuiued againe by the power of God And how was he weake by suffering his owne bodie to taste death for vs and restoring to life againe that very temple of his bodie not doing this by the weakenessc of his flesh but by the power of God Christ f Ibidââ¦m died for vs not as a man like one of vs but as a God in flesh giuing his owne bodie a ransome for the life of all Wherefore his Disciple Peter saith wisely and warily that
he suffered in the flesh But of the fathers iudgement in this case more shal be said afterward g Defenc. pag. 139. li. 12. Heere you obiect thus I note all the attributes of the bodie common to the soule Nay for sooth that I doe not Forsooth the ground of your conclusion inferreth so much what euer your meaning is or may be For this you vrge that wheresoeuer the flesh of Christ is taken for the whole manhood of Christ the thing affirmed of Christs flesh must be common to soule and bodie and thence you conclude that since Christ suffered death in his flesh by Saint Peters wordes he must by the Scriptures ââ¦e sayd to haue died as well in the soule as in the bodie You regard no more but death to bee common to both which of all others is not common to both because they are seured by death but vpon this collection it followeth if your rule bee not false that since through out the Scrtptures where mention is made of Christes liuing flesh or of his actions or passions the whole manhood of Christ is there vnderstoode then consequently all those thinges so affirmed of Christ must be common to both the parts of Christs humane nature that is as well to his soule as to his bodie To pretend your meaning against your speach when you see how absurd your saying is is a childish vanitie if your obseruation and illation be true this that I obiect followeth if those be not true then faile you of your first purpose that death must be common to both parts of Christes manhood Besides the falsitie of your collection appeareth by this that when things are attributed to Christ liuing which are proper to the soule or bodie and yet are ascribed to Christs person this kind of speach is figuratiue either because the whole is taken fot a part or because either part hath some concurrence or reference to the actions and passions auouched of Christ. But thence you may not inferre that all such things most properly agree to either part in Christ that is such palpable ignorance that you seeme not to conceiue what a man is or whereof he consisteth For so you may concââ¦ude that the soule eateth drinketh sleepeth sitteth falleth and such like as well as the bodie because these things are affirmed of the person that is of the whole man though indeed performed by meanes of the bodie More follie it is to vrge the same in death which seuereth the soule from the bodie and so leaueth nothing common to bodie and soule but the generall attributes of a Creature as to be locall finite and such like For where death is the priuation of life and the soule is the life of her bodie what reason or sense can it haue because man dieth to say the losse of life must be common to the soule which is the cause of life as well as to the bodie which is but the vessell or vehicle of life True it is the soule by death is driuen to depart from her bodie but so long as she is present there is life and she must first be gone before death which is the lacke of life can seaze on the bodie To draw this consequent then from reason that the soule must die when man dieth is the part of him that vnderstandeth not what reason meaneth except by the dying of the soule he note the departing of the soule from the bodie in which sense the Scriptures sometimes applie the name of death to the soule as wee shall afterwardes see h Defenc. pag. 140. li. 14. This attribute of dying vnderstood in such sort and manner as the bodie properly dieth that is to become without life and sense I make not common to the soule The whole man consisting of bodie and soule is most properly said to die that is to be dissolued the soule departing from the bodie the bodie is properly said to bee dead that is to bee void of life and sense and if we say the bodie dieth as speach is often guided rather by vse then by rule we meane the bodie beginneth to lacke sense and life and to bee possessed by death And though the soule cannot be void of life and sense in such sort as the bodie is because she is the life of the bodie yet when the soule is dead shee is vtterly void of her life which is God and hath no more sense or feeling of him then the bodie lying dead hath of the soule How then doth it follow that because Christ died in the flesh or in his manhood that his soule must be dead after her manner of dying as well as his bodie after his sort of death where the whole dieth either part you will say must die But Peter doth not say Christ died in his whole manhood that is your lame and blind conceit but that Christ died in the flesh And yet the whole manhood may die and not both parts because the whole is a thing conioyned of parts and so dissolued where they are seuered though both parts doe not die the whole you meane for euery part Your meaning is not the matter but Peters words are the thing that I stand on Now what doe they inferre when he saith Christ died in the flesh you say the whole and euery part thereof because the spirit heere opposite to the flesh importeth the whole dietie and therefore the flesh must comprise the whole humanitie This is that bold and false obseruation that hath deceiued you and your leaders For besides all other exceptions hââ¦eretofore taken which are enough the words of Paul in the same case which is also one of your examples Christ was i Rom. 1. made of the seed of Dauid according to the flesh do they inferre that Christes whole manhood and euery part thereof as well soule as bodie was made of the seede of Dauid If you and your instructors see the falsenesse of this collection with what face vrge you so earnestly the same illation from Peters words but your wills not Peters words are the foundation of your faith and so you can make a shew to wrangle you little care for trueth or substance k Defenc pag. 140. li 25. This if you do not acknowledge the shame of absurditie and contrarietie which in your fansie you accuse me of that Christs soule died and died not will sit neerer to you than to me Is this enough to say the word You may soone write if you make it suffââ¦cient to say what you list but your absurdities and contrarieties are not so easily declined as you would sleightly ouerslippe them Looke backe to your former footing and see how shamefully you shun your owne assertions Examining the place of Peter after your learned maner and labouring as you thought with impregnable force to prooue when Peter ââ¦yth Christmas mortified in the flââ¦sh but qnickened in or by the spirit that the spirit could not there be taken for Christs humane soule
you l Treâ⦠pa. 78. li. ãâã butted both these as absurd and most false that Christ was made aliue either in his humane soule or by the same I replied that you refuted your owne position Foâ⦠if in the former words of Peter his meaning were to say that Christes soule and bodie as you conceaue him were done to death then of necessitie Christ must be quickned and restored to life as well in his humane Soule as in his Bodie And this is so farre from being absurd and false as you proclaimed it that it is openly blasphemous otherwise to saie or thinke that Christ was neuer made aliue in his humane soule if once it were dead as you collected out of Peters words What course now take you to colour these incongruities You ment it was absurd to say that Christes soule was quickned as was his bodie Of the maner of death you speake there not a word but onely seeke to prooue that spirit in that place can not be taken for Christes soule because it is most absurd and false as you say that Christ was made aliue in his humane soule How you will iangle or iuggle touching your intent is not to this purpose you must answere for the sense which you would patch to Peters words The death which Christ suffered in his flesh by Peters assertion was it the death of the body alone or of both body and soule if of the body only then is your commentane which corrupteth Peters words absurd false and wicked Did Peter intend to teach that Christ died in both parts of his manhood that is in soule as well as in bodie then is it a necessarie trueth and point of piety to confesse and affirme that Chist was made aliue in his humane soule which you say is absurd and false Which way will your wisedome winde out of this grinne you ment it is absurd for the soule to be quickened as the body is You ment as best serued your turne but what ment Peter if he affirmed the soule of Christ died as you interprete him must not his words auouch that Christes soule was made aliue except you resolue that Christs soule once dead was neuer quickned againe and though you set a bold face on these contradictions and say you are farre from them yet ech meane Reader may soone perceaue how farre you were ouershot in them though heere you would outface them And where you now say that in such a sense you doe not denie but Christ may be said to be quickned in the spirit what is this but to grant that now which before you called absurd and most false m Dââ¦c pag. 140. li. 37. I hope it is cleere to reasonable men that Christes soule according to the Scriptures phrase may be said in some sort to haue tasted suffered death that is the extreamest feelings of Gods wrath for sinne and the most vehement paines of the damned but in a singuler maner and extraordinarie vvay And to the same reasonable men I referre it whether you haue brought one word or syllable out of holy Scripture concluding that Christ died the death of the soule or the second death The Scripture phrase you haue peruerted and distorted to your meaning but the words are farre from inferring any such thing euen in the iudgement of the meanest Your mittigations In some sort in a singular manner and extraordinarie way What argue they but your wresting of the Scriptures from their right sense since no such thing is there affirmed yea the death of the soule and the second death in the Scriptures are such as you dare not auouch of Christ but with these limitations which are no where mentioned in the Scriptures but are houels to shroud your absurd and false doctrine from the tempest of the word of God conuincing you of impiety and heresie if you did not thus delude the force of them But in vaine doe you seeke for these vnsound refuges when you be once driuen from your footing in the word of God For you must not only prooue by the Scriptures which you neither haue done nor can doe that Christ suffered the death of the soule and the second death as you say he did but you must shew also where these exceptions are written of Christ otherwise they are but shifts declining the maine and generall trueth of the Scriptures touching the death of the soule and the second death which can no more agree to Christ then sinne and damnation which you may as well defend IN A SORT in a singular manner and extraordinary way to be found in Christ as the other And therefore dally not with the word of God and faith of Christ your singular manner will not saue you from abusing the one and defacing the other except you can shew where your assertion as well as your exceptions be written in the booke of God As for the most vehement paines of the damned when you take the paines to prooue any thing otherwise then by the meale of your owne mouth you shal be answered The paines of the damned expressed in the Scriptures are reiection confusion worme of conscience and torment of hell fire which if by your cunning conueyance you cast vppon the soule of Christ you shall cough me a singular and extraordinary miscreant n Defenc. pag. 141. li. 6. Now besides the matter you gird at me in diuers places as where I say the death of the soule is such paines and sufferings of Gods wrath as alwayes accompanie them that are separated from the grace and loue of God This geere deserued more then girding other men vse to blush at such falsehoods but shamefastnesse and you are parted When you had thus grossely thwarted the trueth as to say that the paines of Gods wrath which here you make the most o Treatis pag. 77. li. 5. vehement paines of the damned doe alwayes accompanie them that are separated from the grace and loue of God your Printer or Corrector ashamed of that more then childish ouersight would not take vpon him to altar your text and so to amend your error but with a marginall note bridled your wordes making an addition cleane contrarie to your text For where you said alwayes he said ordinarily which is not alwayes and so he giueth you the lie and yet himselfe is as farre from the trueth as you are For neither alwayes nor ordinarily much lesse alwayes ordinarily which is as much as alwayes sometimes doe the most vehement paines of the damned accompanie them that are strangers to the grace and loue of God and therefore this Laborinth is like your other riddles in religion neither Writer Reader nor Corrector can tell what to make of them nor how to temper them with any trueth But now you will make amends for all p Defenc. pag. 141. li. 10. Forsooth it is true they are alwayes wicked whom these paines do accompanie ordinarily It is the first time I heard you speake
towards a trueth but this is cleane kam to that you said before Your former speach was these paines doe alwayes accompanie the wicked and now you turne the cake in the pan as if that side were not burnt and tell vs they are alwayes wicked whom those paines doe accompanie ordinarily Forsooth this is not How handsomly the defender shifteth hands that you said before and if you be ashamed of your follie and falsehood I am not against repentance But it were plaine dealing to confesse the fault and not to bring in an ape for an owle and say it is the same Creature And yet forsooth whether this position be true or not is without the compasse of your skill For first what is ordinarie with you once a weeke once a moneth or once in seuen yeeres you haue gotten a word that you may winde at your will and limite as you like best and yet without all proofe you resolue that these paines doe ordinarily accompanie the wicked experience I trust you will take none vpon you for then by your owne rule you must be alwayes wicked to sift other mens souls what paines they feele though they be wicked I win you haue no way but by report or conââ¦ecture which are both vncertaine Warrant in the word you haue none that such paines doe alwayes or ordinarily accompany the wicked the contrarie may rather be thence collected For when the wicked shall say q 1. Thess. 5. Peace and safetie then shall suddaine destruction come vpon them Peace and safetie in the paines of hell I suppose they haue nor cause nor will to say In Peace then safety not in the pains of the damned are many if not most of the wicked till destruction come vpon them which is not alwaies nor ordinary since they can be destroyed but once and vntill that time their ease and abundance make them forget God r Defenc. pag. 141. li. 18. Againe you pretend to haue much against me where I say the feeling of the sorrwes of Gods wrath due to sinne in a broken and contrite heart is indeede the onely true and perfectly accepted sacrifie to God True so I said and againe I say it What see you annsse in it Then vnhappie men are the godlââ¦e say you which are at any time free from the paines of the damned to what purpose is this I speake of Christs sacrifice Thus your triumphs before the victorie come to nothing but blasts of vanitie If I mistooke your meaning you are the more beholding to me the sense which you now expresse is worse then that I charged you with and yet I tooke your words as they lay which because they were namely applied neither to Christ nor to vs by you I pressed you with the lesser absurditie of the twaine Why your words might not be referred to the faithfull I saw no cause Dauid confessing that the s Psal. 51. v. 17. sacrifices of God he meaneth esteemed and required of God are a troubled spirit and a contrite and broken heart causeth the sacrifice of righteousnesse to be accepted I strained your words no farder then Dauids but sayd you miââ¦construed the wordes of the holy Ghost if you tooke a broken and contrite heart repenting his former sinnes for the paines of hell suffered in the soule You now say you ment this of Christ that his broken and contrite heart feeling the most vehement paines of the damned was the onely true and perfectly accepted sacrifice to God and aske me what I see amisse in this I will soone tell you Where I would haue charged you with a single error against the Godly by reason your wordes are indistinct and doubtfull you loade your selfe with a double iniurie against God and his Sonne For first the sacrifice of Christes bodie by which we are sanctified as saith the Apostle is excluded from being a true and perfectly accepted sacrifice if the paines of hell in his soule be onely the true sacrifice Secondly a false sacrifice deuised by your selfe and neuer offered by Christ is obtruded by you vnto God as the onely true sacrifice which he must perfectly accept and so where before you blazed an vntrueth you be now come to bolster it vp with impietie For where no Scripture doth witnesse that Christ suffered any such sorrowes and paines of hell as you surmise you now openly professe that all sorrowes and sacrifices besides this were neither true nor acceptable vnto God and that this your deuice surpasââ¦eth all the merits and obedience of Christ whatsoeuer t Defenc. pag. 141. li. 30. Where Austen seemeth to denie that Christes soule might die he denieth that Christ suffered any paines of damation locally in hell after his death as it seemeth some held about his time whom heere he laboureth to confute If your ignorance were not euery where patent some man perhaps would stumble at your report but you are growen to such a trade of outfacing that almost you can doe nothing else That any such opinion was held in Austens time as you talke of and that he laboured there to confute the same is a maske of your making to hide your owne blemishes Austen refelleth that as a fable in exact words when he saith Quis audeat dicere who dare say so Now if some had so held he must haue said some doe say so but who dare say so is as much as no man dareth say so If no man durst so to say then no man was so wicked or irreligious in Austens time as to dare say that Christs soule died which now is become the greatest pillar of your pater noster As for suffering in hell locally it is a fiction of yours fastened to S. Austen he hath no such words and therefore no such meaning u Defenc. pag 141. li. 37. He had no necessary cause ââ¦o speake of the second sense thereof how the soule may be sayd to suffer death extraordinarily for sinne imputed onely neither doth he speake against that in Christ. S. Austen a man would thinke had cause to know how we wââ¦re rââ¦d by Christ and surely if he were ignorant thereof you would not iudge him worthy to be a Curate in your Conuenticles but shew that he who taught so much and wrote so much as his works declare euer spake word of your new-found redemption by the paines of hell suffered in the soule of Christ or by the second death Against it he often speaketh when he so soundly and sincerely collecteth out of the Scriptures that Christ died for vs the death of the body onely and not the death of the soule And this how could it be a true or tolerable assertion if the Scriptures did auouch or the church in his time had professed the death of Christs soule to be the chiefest part of our redemption for sinne and reconciliation to God Wherefore neuer dreame he had no necessarie cause to speake of your sense if your sense had beene a part
of the Christian faith would any man in his right wits haue asked as Austen doth Who dare auouch it He discusseth the place of S. Peter and when he commeth to those words Christ was quickened in the spirit or by the spirit he resolueth this cannot be spoken of Christs humane soule because that which was afterwards quickened was first mortified and therefore we could not say that Christs humane spirit or soule was restored to life except we first yeelded that it was before subiected to death Now that Christs soule was euer dead who durst auouch it The reason why Christs soule could neuer die he rendreth thus for that the Scriptures acknowledge no death of the soule in any but sin and damnation to neither of which the soule of Christ could be subiect x August epist. 99. Certè anima Christi nullo mortificata peccato vel damnatione punita est quibus duabus causis mors animae intelligi potest Surely the soule of Christ was neither dead with any sin nor punished with damnation which are the two waies how the death of the soule may be possibly vnderstood This collection of S. Austins out of the Scriptures touching the death of the soule is most sound and cannot be shaken with all your shewes and shifts talke of ordinarie and extraordinarie as long as you will That standing good which yet we see immooueable for all your battery it followeth ineuitably that Christ ne did ne could die the death of the soule ne may any man defend it without apparent falsity and impiety What proofes you haue profered against S. Austins conclusion let the Reader iudge I must confesse my selfe very blind if he see any for I see none and therefore not only S. Austins words but his reasons out of holy Scripture stand firme and hold you fast to the grinding stone being no way as yet counteruailed or controled but with your vaine speaches and most vnlearned euasions y Defenc pag. 142. li. 2. Nay according to Austins owne definition of the soules dying it will easily appeare that Christes soule may be said to haue suffered some kind of death Mors est spiritus deseri a Deo The death of the soule saith he is Gods for saking of it but the Scripture saith God did forsake him for a season yea the Fathers also agree fully therevnto Therefore by Anstins definition largely and rightly taken Christ may be said in some sense to haue died in soule From your shifts you returne againe to your proofes and neither barrell is better herring The maior you thinke is Austins the minor is Christs owne words and what trow you should hinder the coÌclusion This reason hath but three of your wonted flowers I must not say faults the maior is larger then Austen euer ment and the minor no way matcheth it except you quite alter the words of Christ and the conclusion commeth nothing neere to your purpose Examine them in order Not euery forsaking of the soule is death for the godly often in the Scriptures complaine as I haue shewed that they are forsaken of God when yet their soules liue but as life is repugnant to death and God is the life of the soule so till God haue vtterly forsaken the soule she is not dead Whiles she retaineth any fellowship of grace with God who is her life she is not dead because she partaketh with life As then death is the vtter priuation of life so God must vtterly forsake the soule before she can be pronounced to be dead and that kind of forsaking is indeed the death of the soule in this life So that your maior if euer you will come neere S. Austins meaning must be the death of the soule is Gods vtter for saking of the same And that thus you must conster S. Austins words appeareth euery where by his z In Psal. 70. in Iohan. tract 47. de verbis Apost Serm. 30. comparison with the death of the bodie which is not dead till the soule be vtterly departed from it For as the body which hath in it any power or presence of the soule is not dead but liuing so the soule that hath any communion with God who is her life can not be truely sayd to be dead but as yet to haue life Were you no Diuine but a plaine Sophister reason teacheth you so to vnderstand S. Austins words for where life and death be priuatiues as well in the soule as in the bodie the one hath no place till the other be vtterly quenched He is not blinde that hath any sight nor deafe that hath any hearing the priuation vtterly excludeth the habite neither is the soule dead that hath any force or effect of life in her and consequently not euerie forsaking but onely an vtter forsaking of God is the death of the soule heere in this life Your minor then should be that Christes Soule was vtterly forsaken of God which are not the words of Christ on the crosse nor any way consonant to them yea the verie entrance to that speech when Christ saide My God my God doth prooue the quite contrarie a Matth. 22. God is not the God of the dead but of the liuiug Then directly by the plaine wordes of Scripture when Christ said My God my God his soule confessing God to be his God was liuing and consequently the wordes following why hast thou forsaken me doe net prooue the death of the soule vnlesse you make the Sonne of God so vnwise as not to vnderstand what he said or so amazed that he marked not his owne speech which with you perchance is no absurditie but with me it is a wicked and vnchristian impietie Christes wordes therefore import that he found a kinde of forsaking but not that his soule was forsaken of the trueth grace or spirit of God these be blasphemies to auouch and no points of pietic nor that he was vtterly or altogither forsaken which onely is the death of the soule And against this wresting of Christes wordes from their right sense how many testimonies of scriptures and Fathers haue I sormerly brought all which you trippe ouer with a light foote and make as though you felt them not You haue beene told b Galat 3. the iust shall liue by saith So that if Christ wanted not faith he could not choose but liue in soule Againe c 1. Iohn 4. God is ãâã and he that dwelleth in loue dwelieth in God Christ then must either haue life or want loue for the loue of God is the life of the soule Farder the Spirit of God is the d Rom. 8. spirit of life that quickneth the soule yea then ãâã thereof is life and peace Then must you take from Christ the spirit of God with all the gifts and graces thereof before you can depriue the soule of Christ from life What an hellish heape of blasphemies are here before you can affirm that Christs soule was dead according to the Scriptures
his power to be destroyed and ouerthrowen If you regard the Catechisme so highly as you pretend why slippe you from it in these or other points at your pleasure why obtrude you that to others as authorised which your selfe doe not admit indeed some men haue of late yeeres inclined to vehement and violent temptations offered to the soule of Christ in his sufferings and some to feares and horrors euen of eternall death as master Caluin and the Catechisme which you cite but if you may be suffered to shrincke from them at your liking neuer blame me if I doe not preferre them before all these fathers Howbeit to speake vprightly without wronging them I doe not see that either the Catechisme or master Caluin doe expressely defend the death of Christs soule or the second death but only the feare and horror not of a temporall hell as you haue distilled their infusion but of eternall death which you with might and maine reiect And surely if they did contradict the confession of all these fathers I would adhere to the primatiue church of Christ in matters of faith rather then to the deuices of late writers dissenting from themselues and others But touching the death of Christes soule I see no cause to depart from them since they define no such thing and therefore they aââ¦e idlely alleadged by you euen as the rest are by you proudly neglected And till you leaue this contemning of ancient Fathers and straining of later writers beyond their meaning I for my part thinke you worthie of no charge in the church of Christ neither of that you had wherein you sowed as much cockle as corne nor of that you may haue except you change your mind and learne to teach nothing to the people of God but what is warranted by the word of God c Defenc. pag. 142. li. 36. ` You say I should haue donne well to haue laied downe for a shew which is written in Easy he laied downe his soule vnto death Verily if I had it would haue made some shew I said indeed the Prophet Esay would make a better shew for the death of Christ soule then the Poet Terence whom only you produced for proofe thereof but such was then and still is your presumption that on your bare word you will pronounce what best pleaseth your fansie Howbeit the words of Esay are but a shew for the death of Christes soule since they exactly declare his bodily death to be the redemption of mankind For when the soule in the Hebrew tongue and in the old Testament is said to die either by the soule are ment the vegetatiue and sensitiue powers of the soule whereby the spirit of man is vnited to his body and which are quenched by death or by death is ment the distraction of the soule from the body which violence of death is common as well to the soule thrust from her body as to the body left without a soule That signification of the word soule the Apostle sheweth when he praieth the d 1. Thess. 5. whole spirit and soule and body of the faithfull may be kept blaââ¦lesse vnto the comming of Christ and saith e Hebr. 4. The word of God pearceth to the diuiding a sunder of the soule and the spirit And this sense of the word death the Scriptures expresse when they often mention that the soules of the godly doe or would die When Iosephs brethren would haue slaine him Ruben said vnto them f Genes 37. vers 21. Let vs not strike him in the soule that is let vs not kill him So Balaam seeing the glory of Gods people said g Numb 23. vers 10. Let my soule die the death of the Righteous and mine end be like his that is Let my soule depart in peace as the Righteous doe And least any thinke that Balaam spake he knew not what Sampson willing to end his life with reuenge of the dishonour done to God by the Philistines insulting at his bonds and blindnesse when he pulled the house on his and their heades said h Iudâ⦠16. vers 30. Let my soule die with the Philistines So Elias wearie of his life i 1. Kings 19. vers 4. desired for his soule to die saying Lord take my soule he ment from his body So Moses comparing a rape with murder saith k Deuter. 22. vers 26. This is as if a man should fall vpon his fellow and kill him in the soule And so Ieremie to Ierusalem l Iere 2. v 34. In thy bosome is found the bloud of the soules of the poore innocents Infinite places are there in the Scripture to like effect All which declare that the soule of man feeleth the death of the body by her departing from it and that the Prophet Esay when he said of Christ He m Esa. 53. v. 12 powred forth his soule vnto death Had no meaning but to describe Christs bodily death in which the soule is powred out from the body that is wholy separated from it The very phrase of powring forth the soule which must needes be from the body sheweth that the Prophet directly described the death of Christs body by which the soule is emptied and powred out of the body as out of a vessel replenished with it So that heere you haue as much hold for the death of Christs soule as you had before which is vtterly none n Defenc. pag. 143. li. 1. You earnestly affirme that this word signifieth soule or spirit in a proper sense Also how resolute are you forbidding to diuert from the natiue and proper significations of words but when the letter impugneth the grounds of Christian faith and charity In the Page 167. which you quote I neither spake of this place nor of this word and therefore your considering cappe was not on when you so much mistooke my words I know Nephesh is applied as well to beasts who haue no soules as to bodies once liuing but then dead And therefore of Nephesh I affirmed no such thing of S. Lukes words repeating Dauids and exactly distinguishing the soule from the flesh in Christ I did indeed auouch and still doe that we must not rashly depart from the proper significations of that and other words in the Scripture except the letter breed some inconuenience to faith or good-maners But what is that to this place where though the word Nephesh be granted properly to import the soule yet the rest sheweth it to be referred to the death of the body because the soule is powred forth of the body by the death thereof where before it was conteined and inclosed o Defenc. pag. 143. li. 15. The rather if we note that which followeth he was counted with sinners that is he was punished by God as sinners are punished and not by the Iewes only counted among Theeues You take vpon you to controle both the Prophet and the Euangelist who refer this misiudging of Chriââ¦t to men not to
est mortuum anima illa non est mortua The word died not the soule of Christ died not And therefore the death of Christ which the Scriptures euery where note was the breathing of his soule out of his body not the separating of his soule from God as you would haue it Austins purpose in that place you little conceiue if you make him haue but one purpose As occasion serued he taught many things pertinent incident to his text which was large euen from the 10. verse vnto the 20. of that f Iohn 10. Chapter And these words I lay downe my soule for my sheepe being part of his text he had iust occasion to treate what death Christ died for his sheepe which was neither the death of his diety nor the death of his soule but only the separating of his soule from his bodie if this make not against you you haue good lucke that nothing will reach you his words refute the foolish error which you would establish that by the Scriptures Christ may be said to haue died the death of the soule as well as the death of the bodie which Austen expressely contradicteth auouching the one and denying the other in as plaine speach as any wise man can require g Defenc. pag. 143. li. 34. All your other discourse heere against me is almost nothing but reuilings and reproches and bitter skoffes Yet you say you haue not learned nor vsed to giue reuiling speaches Haue you not learned it is it then naturall vnto you Nââ¦y you meane these are fatherly warnings and admonitions If your fatherly admonitions are such what are your Lordly rebukes If these be your bishoply blessings what are your cursings What my discourse is against Hâ⦠your defendour ãâã som what pleasurable you muââ¦t bee left neither to your censure nor mine but to the Readers If I called your conclusions bold and foolish shewing neither learning nor wit but sauouring onely of the vanitie of your owne conceits the trueth forced me so to doe which I might not betray When you reiected the iudgements and expositions of the fathers one after an other as k Trea. pa. 69. li. 67. 68. fond and absurd void of sense reason and likelihood yea most absurd and too fond to be spoken and trampled on their names credits as you would on nutshels affirming i Ibid. pa. 95. 96. It is onely the Fathers abusiue speaking and altering the vsuall and ancient sense of words that bred this error their vnapt and perillous translating that confirmed the same and that is a thing too rife with the Fathers yea with some of the auncient est of them to alter and change the Authentike vse of wordes whereby it is easie for errors and grosse mistakings to creepe in is or ought any good man to be so patient or rather negligent as to heare a parrat thus prate against the whole Church of Christ in her best times next after the Apostles and not onely to spare his folly but to reuerence his pride For my part I must confesse I tooke my selfe bound in duety to yeeld him no more regard then he deserued that thus sought to blaze his errors with contempt of all men saue of himselfe If therefore your absurd positions and proofes S. Treatiser did not iustly prouoke these replies which I made in the opinion of any wise and Christian Reader I crie your mercie but if you thinke me to blame for not taking you to be some Patriarke of Vtopia because you can scoffe and mocke as well at Bishops as at fathers Salomon aduiseth me to answere some men according to their merits k Prou. 26. least they seeme wise in their owne eyes Your Mockes I remit to your selfe I am as readie to bearâ⦠them for the trueth as you to giue them Howbeit you wanted colours in your coate when you made such pastime with the blessing of Bishops and pepper in your porrage when I taking learned for skilfull which is not strange to any saue to you whose skill is void of all good learning you would needs make your selfe such mirth that railing must be naturall to me because I was not learned or expert therein I wish these were the worst of your toyes and then my sufferance should quiet the whole l Defenc. pag. 144. li. 8. Finally that is not true where you say the flesh doth often signifie the soule in vs. Is it ignorance or malice which driueth you to this waywardnesse to auouch you know not or care not what so you seeme to crosse that I say better learned then you or I obserued that before me which you affirme to be false Austen saith m August dâ⦠ãâã Symbolo ââ¦a 10. Anima cum carnalia bona adhuc appetit caro nominatur The soule so long as it affecteth fleshly things is called flesh And Ambrose n Ambros. in 6. câ⦠ãâã ad Romanos Caro aliquando corpus intelligitur velipsa anima sequens corporea vitia The flesh is sometimes vnderstoode to be the bodie of mâ⦠or the soule it selfe addicted to corporall vices And Ierom. o Hâ⦠in 5. ca. ââ¦pist ad Galat. Anima inter carnem spiritumque consistens quando se tradiderit carni caro dicitur The soule consisting betweene the flesâ⦠and the spirit when it yeeldeth it selfe to the flesh is called flesh And least you clamour against these Fathers as your Treatise doth that they change the authentike vse of words heare what Zanchius a man of good iudgement though a late writer saith thereof p Zanchij tractat Theologicâ⦠de peccato originali Thes. 6. Flesh and bloud reuealed not this vnto thee saith Christ to Peter The mind of man he calleth flesh and bloud why so because it is wholy corrupted by the flesh so that it sauoureth nothing but flesh How thinke you Sir is it true or false which I sayd that the soule is often called flesh because of her corruption as well as the bodie q Defenc. pag. 144. li. 12. Heere I desire the Reader to change a worde or two in my former Treatise for alwaies to set vsually and for a Man to set Christ. Because since I finde that flesh and spirit together applied to men doe once 2. Corinth 7. vers 1. signifie meerely the body and soule Which then I thought euery where did signifie in vs our corrupt and regenerate man Which ouersight the Bishop spieth not but in this place confirmeth The Bishop that professed hee found fewe true sentences in your Treatise had neither will nor leasure to traduce them all but obseruing your errors in doctrine remitted this and many other ouersights as not preiudicing the maine point in question As for his confirming it that is one of your vsuall verities who by the defending of falshood haue gotten you such an habite that you can scant see or speake a trueth when it toucheth but the skirts of your cause
vs from all deaths And resolue as we may read that by one kinde of death which was the death of Chââ¦istes bodie onely both our deaths of body and soule were vtterly abolished And whether this be true or false which I auouch I wish no better triall then the present view of their sayings whom now you stroke as auncient and godlie writers but not long since you stript as fond absurd the peruerters of Authentike words and occasioners of grosse errors b Defenc. pag. 145. li. 1. Tertullian and Cyrill will giue a taste heereof for all the rest You will giue a fresh taste of your vnlearned mistaking them otherwise their places as they make nothing for your pretences so were they obiected and answered before c li. 2. In Tertullians wordes Christes flesh is expresly opposed to his Deitie not to his soule so that euidently he meaneth thereby his whole manhood If you meane that Tertullian still conceaued Christes flââ¦sh to be humane flesh that is not amisse but wide from your matter But if you would obserue that Tertullian in that tractate speaking of Christes flesh doth not distinguish it from Christes soule or maketh common to Christes soule whatsoeuer he there aââ¦firmeth of Christes flesh it is a palpable and pestilent vntrueth When he saith Hââ¦c vox carnis animae id est hominis This was the voice of his flesh and of his soule that is of his Manhood doth he not in exact wordes distinguish Christes flesh from his soule Againe where he saith d Tertullianus aduersus Praxeam Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Christ laid downe his spirit and straight way died for his spirit abiding in his flesh the flesh could not die at all can there be any doubt but the name of Christs flesh here doth not containe his humane spirit or soule though you auouch the contrarie Of the attributes of Christes flesh he saith e Ibidem videtur contrectatur per carnem Christ is seene and handled by the flesh which I hope he is not by his soule Though therefore he often interpret carnem id est hominem flesh that is man shewing he speaketh of Christ who had both body and soule yet that doth no way prooue that what hee affirmeth of Christes flesh must be common to both parts of Christes manhoode which simple shift when you haue once taken vp you can neuer make an end of it f Defenc. pag. 145. li. 5. If he had ment to exclude any part or facultie of the soule from suffering as he doth his Godhead he had consirmed that heresie against which he striueth as before I noted You keepe close to your owne notes though they want both trueth and iudgement To make Christes soule as impassible as his Godhead was to make him no man for mans soule is mutable subiect to affections and passions which God is not But what is this to the death of Christes soule if it were an humane soule and not equall with his Deitie or what heresie doth this confirme if Tertullian deny Christs soule to be mortall which he ascribeth to the flesh of Christ You talke much of heresiââ¦s but take heed you leape not head and eares into them whiles you deuise new deaths and new hels for the soule of Christ without and against the rules of the sacred Scriptures g Defenc. pag. 145. li. 7. It seemes he yeeldeth the name of death to this suffering of Christes whole manhood in saying quod vnctum est mortuum ostendit that died which receaued the annointing For I hope his spirit was anointed with the holy Ghost as well as his flesh You doe weââ¦l to adââ¦e seeming to this saying for to him that vnderstandeth little it may so seeme when in trueth it is nothing lesse Tertullian interpreting the name Christ which is as much as Anointed saith Christ died not as he was the word and Sonne of God but as he was Anointed that is in his humane flesh which was anointed as well as his humane spirit Doth he say all that was anointed died as you most falsly would enforce his speech It sufficeth then that he died not as he was God who can no way be subiect to death but as he was man hauing one part mortall which was his bodie and he died that death which is common to all I meane the separating of the soule from the body not that which is speciall to the wicked as reiââ¦ction from the fauour and grace of God Tertullians owne words next before are these h Tertullianus aduersus Praxeam Cum duae substantiae censeantur in Christo Iesu diuina humana consââ¦et autem immortalem esse diuinaâ⦠cum mortalem quae humana sit apparet quatenus eum mortuum dicat id est ãâã carnem hominem silium hominis non quâ spiritum sermonem filium Dei. Dââ¦do ââ¦que Christus mortuus est id est vnctus id quod vnctum est mortuum ostendit ãâã ãâã cââ¦rnem Where there are two substances in Christ Iesus a diuine and ââ¦n humane and it is cââ¦rtaine that the diuine is immortall and the humane mortall it is plaine wherein the Apostle pronounced Christ to be dead that is as he was flesh and man and the Sonne of man not as he was a spirit and the word and Sonne of God In saying then Christ that is the Anointed was dead he sheweth that which was Annointed euen his flesh to haue beene dead Will you teach out of these wordes that Christes soule was certainely mortall because it was not his diuine substance and that he died in soule because he died in his humane nature as a man which Tertullian expoundeth to be his flesh and likewise his death to be the laying downe of his soule or breathing out of his spirit as the Euangelist describeth it i Defenc. pag. 145. li 14. My false translating of him which you note is not worth the noting but you doe worse in false placing those his last rehearsed words for aduantage in Tertulliââ¦n they are vsed more generally comming long before Your mistranslating can not be defended and my misplacing as you call it is no way preiudiciall either to the truth or the authors intent What should hinder me to alleage diuers sentences out of any Writer occurrent in one and the same Treatise and tending all to declare his meaning and to dââ¦ct your misconstruction of him I vse to set Ibidem by the side to shew that it is a new sentence which if the Printer omit what wrong is done to the Reader so long as I adde or alter nothing as you do He that will rightly conceiue anothers sense must compare his words vttered in the same discourse and belonging to the same matter You say they are vsed more generally in their owne place this were somewhat if your saying were any thing
worth but if they be diuers proofes of one thing though in place one before another they all haue one intention and must haue one construction Your maner is to make what you list of euery mans wordes my course is to shew by the wordes precedent and consequent that I take the right sense of each Writer not vpon the aduantage of one word wrested from the rest but out of the whole context to manifest the true meaning of ech mans speach If therfore Tertullian had said Haec mors est carnis animae this is the death of soule and flesh as he saith Haec vox est carnis animae this is the voice of soule and flesh It had been worth the obiecting and yet I must tell you that Tertullian being of opinion that the soule was traduced with the seed of the body when he diuideth a man into flesh soule and spirit as heere he doth by naming all three parts it may well be doubted whether he spake of the substance of the soule which is a spirit or of the powers of sense and speach which faile by death and are often comprised in the name of the soule But it is cleare by Tertullians owne words that Christs humane spirit was not dead or forsaken since he there vrgeth it was committed to the fathers hands and consequently was not forsaken nor left to death as the rest of Christs manhood was k Tertullianus aduersus Praxeam Caeterum non reliquit pater filium in cuius manibus filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnio mori non potest But the Father did not forsake the Sonne into whose hands the sonne laid downe his spirit For he laid it downe and presently died the spirit remaining in the flesh the flesh could not die at all The Father then left the flesh of his sonne vnto death but he tooke Christs spirit into his hands and so for the sonne to be forsaken was nothing els but for his flesh to be left to death This is Tertullians owne exposition of himselfe howsoeuer you would dally and deceaue both your selfe and your Reader by generall or speciall before or after l Defenc. pag. 145. li. 24. Cyrill also euen in that booke which you cite for you sheweth that he excludeth but Christs deity though he mention only his suffering in flesh Christ then is God impassible as God passible according to the flââ¦sh You put a whole But to Cyrills sense more then you find in his text and yet the words passible and impassible are not the things we striue for Impassible is that which by no possibility can admit any mutation or alteration by force or affection which is proper to God alone So no part of Christs manhood was impassible But though his soule were passible with diuers affections and impressions how will it follow from these or any other words in Cyrill that Christs soule died Cyrill hath in many words shewed which I before haue cited that Christs soule was subiect to all humane and naturall passions or affections but without sinne or corruption in this sense what doth it helpe you to haue the soule of Christ passible by nature and not impassible as his godhead is but you loue to loyter that thus still repeat one lesson not only besides your booke but against your booke m Defenc. pag 145. li 30. In a word so doe all the rest as before is partly noted A totall summe is as soone made of lies as of trueths All the answer you giue is they spake against other Hereticks not against you but this is the danger that if such points as they prooue against other Hereticks make against you you had need beware of the coniunction and communion between you and other Hereticks Against n li. 31. Nestorius they affirme you say the vnion of Christs natures Why skippe you o Sermo fo 331. Athanasius Epiphanius Ambrose and Augustine that neuer heard of Nestorius who teach directly that Christs suffering of death mentioned in the Scriptures was the suffering thereof in his mortall bodie which died and rose againe and by the death of this body was the ransome for vs all payd p Ambros. in Lucâ⦠ca 4. de ductu Christi in desertum What pray saith Ambrose could there be for death and Satan but his bodie You say his soule q August in Psal. 148. Accepit ex te vnde moreretur pro te Non posset mori nisi card Non posset mori nisi mortale corpus Christ tooke of thee sayth Austen wherein he might die for thee There could die in him nothing but flesh There could die in him nothing but his mortall bodie These and many such places yon cleanly skippe and tell in a word they are all for you r li. 32. They preserue the properties of ech They therefore holde not his only bodily sufferings Nay they therefore holde not the death of Christes soule since that is no necessarie propertie of mans nature assumed by Christ. Their reasons likewise and expositions of the Scriptures which you peruert exclude your conceit of the death of Christes soule most apparently ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The Deitie could not suffer death say they because it was no bodie Then onely the bodie could suffer that death which Christ died And since the soule is no bodie that also must be free froÌ the death which Christ died These positions likewise of the Christian faith that the Son of God was wounded crucified dead and rose againe for vs all they expound to be expresly meant of his bodie wounded crucified dead and raised the third day so that where you would cauill that the name of Christes flesh importeth his soule as well as his body they directly refell you and pronounce all these things to be verified of his body and not of his soule or deity since nothing in him could suffer death but his body And the Scriptures that Christ by the grace of God tasted death for all and by death conquered him that had power ouer death and such like they exactly referre to the death of his body which argueth all your doctrine of the death of Christs soule to be meerely superfluous if not wholy pernicious f Defenc. pag. 145. li. 33. Is this then your great boast of all the Fathers and councels nay are they well vsed at your hands to be thus drawen clean from their purpose to an opinion which they neuer thought of is this good dealing towards Gods people to tell them that the Fathers generally teach the only bodily sufferings of Christ and denie our assertion of his soules peculiar suffering which they iustifie and conââ¦irme indeed Intrueth good Reader if I were not too well acquainted with this mans vnshamefastnesse I should thinke I rather heard a plaier on the stage then a Pen-man in the Church Is it possible for a
significations of the same word in other places of Scriptures This therefore if you take not heed is a vaine ostentation of phrasiologie wherewith you thinke to make euery thing of any thing with your figuratiue and phrasitiue fansies Against this argument you say you haue one place Acts 2. 27. euen onely one where you thinke it is plaine that Christ saith God would not leaue his soule in hell That we haue or say wee haue but one place to prooue Christes descent to hell is a tale of your telling who seldome speake trueth but that you shall neuer with all the wittes and shifts you haue euert the vigour of this place that I say and you shall see by Gods grace I will pââ¦orme it But omit your Prefaces and goe to your proofes and then it will soone be seene where trueth is The Hebrew word controuersed is Sheól the Greeke Hades Now must the word Sheól and Hades needs signifie hell being applied to soules departed hence so indeed you auouch more confidently then truly and hââ¦reupon it seemeth you pawne the triall of this question You be so fine in your phrases that you can not frame your lippes to trueth I auouch indeed you can prooue no such thing and so I suppose it will fall out But in neither of these two pages which you quote doe I pawne the question on that issue and in the 312. by you cited in your margine I speake not a word of Sheol or Hades so well couched are your conceits that you cite things neither written nor ment Wee hope then when this proofe which you aske for against your opinion is shewed you will correct your opinion in this point Your proofes I feare will be so wide from the purpose that they will rather confirme then conuince mine assertion of Sheól but neuer make so deintie to bring foorth your choisest stuffe it will be some great onset that you make so many offers to it before you begin Let it be considered which the Psalmist hath of this matter What man liueth and shall not see death shall he deliuer his soule from the hand of Sheol Heere now the soule attributed to euery man liuing must be properly taken as well as in the former place Now then it is apparant that heere the soules of all men liuing both good and badde after death are appointed to Sheol For there is none that can possibly escape it saith the text Therefore in the Scripture sheôl and Hades applied to departed soules is not alwaies hell but the condition or place as well where the iust mens soules are after death as that where the damned are Heere is the Cannon that must craze the Creede and beate downe the walles of Christes Church but your deuices doe not deceaue mine expectation Set aside the wordes of the Psalmist which you violently draw to fit your dreames there is not one true nor likely word in all this reason First you say The soule attributed to euery liuing man must be properly taken you meane for his immortall spirit as well as in the former place where without question the soule of Christ as after death was seuered from his bodie This is a foolish and false position openly impugned by the Scriptures for the soule attributed to euery man liuing by the Scriptures importeth not only his life which by death is dissolued and brought to Sheol but also his senses desires and euen corporall affections and passions Of this can no man doubt that haââ¦h read any part of the Scriptures The soule is there sayd to hunger and thirst to lust to loath meats to eat and drinke to weepe to melt to suffer all violence to be strooken or pierced with the sword These things are attributed to the soules of men liuing by which not the substance of the soule but the affections and passions of the bodie that are common to vs with beasts are intended Much more then when the soule is sayd to haue bloud to die or not to be deliuered from the power of soââ¦ol are these things applied to the life of men which are most false of their soules once seuered from their bodies So that no man is able to deliuer his soule from the hand of Sheol but he must see death as the words next before do import but that Sheol after death shall possesse the soules of all men there is no such thing in the Prophets words by you produced The hand or power of Sheol which endeth this life sundreth the soule from the bodie that power of Sheol shall no man escape because it is appointed for all to die or as it is in your allegation to see death but what becommeth of their soules after death whether they be in Sheol or in Paradise this place expresseth not And therefore your interlacing those wordes after death of your owne authority besides the text sheweth that you affirme so much but the Psalmist sayth no such thing And because the Reader shall plainly see how lamely and loosely you conclude and cleane contrarie to the direct words of the holy Ghost euen in the Psalmes he shall heare the words of Dauid himselfe whether his soule after death should be subiected to the power of Sheol or no. Speaking of the foolish he sayth Like sheepe they lie in Sheôl death deuoureth them but God will deliuer my soule from the hand or power of sheol for he will receiue me Where first is a manifest contradiction to your maine collection out of the former place that the soules of all men good bad after death are appointed to Shââ¦l Secondly here is a full confirmatition of mine assertion that whose soules God receaueth they are not in Sheól But God receaueth the soules of his Saints their soules therefore are not in Sheól Neither is this confession to bee found in the Psalmes alone Salomon auoucheth the same Thou shalt smite thy child with the rod and shald deliuer his soule from Sheol Then are not the soules of all men in Sheol after death since the soule of a childe well nurtered and in time chastened shal be deliuered from Sheol And so shall the soules of all men that after death liue with God The way of life is on high for him that vnderstandeth to dââ¦line from Sheol belowe Life is on high Sheol is below the Saints then whose soules liue with God are freed from Sheol which is below To be in both places at once is impossible for one and the same part of man Then such as you graunt are in any part of heauen can by no meanes remaine in Sheol But the soules of the righteous are in a blessed rest with God and as Christ promised the thiefe that was crucified with him at least in Paradise They be therefore not in Sheol And as for the mirth that you make with me and Saint Augustine that O then this point of faith
hades either for the place or state of the godly now deceased in Christ nor for the generall or common condition of both elect and reprobate since Christs resurrection but as we saw before in Iustine the martyr Chrysostome and Theodoret precisely for a place opposite to Paradise and heauen where the wicked after this life find the due wages of their sinnes which is eternall darââ¦knesse and death where the dwelling and dominion of Diuels is and whence the Saints dead and liuing from the beginning of the world to the end thereof weââ¦e and are redeemed and deliuered by Christ. Iosephus a Iew and yet a fauourââ¦r of Christian Religion as appeareth by his testimonie giuen of Christ and one that liued euen in the Apostles time as being a chiefe leader of the Iewes in the battaile against the Romans and taken by Veââ¦pasian to whom he foretold by the gift of pââ¦ophesie whiles Nero yet liued that he should be Emperour in his oration to dissuade them that would haue killed themselues and him before he should yeeld to the Romans Know you not saith he that such as goe out of this life by the law or course of nature and repââ¦y the debt which they rââ¦ceaued of God when he that gaue it is willing to receaue it haue immortall glory an house and ofspring setled and their soules cleansed and fauoured of God inhabit the holiest place of heauen and whose hands waxe mad against themselues ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã THEIR SOVLââ¦S HADES that is darke RECEIVETH Ignatius the third bishop of Antioch after the Apostles sayth of Christ ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã He descended alone to Hades Hell and threw downe the rampier that had stood from the beginning and brake vp the partition wall thereof which kept men from heauen To the state of the dead Christs soule did not descend alone the thiefs soule was with him neither had the rampier of bodily death continued vnbroken from the beginning since many before Christs suffering rose from the generall condition of the dead but hell it was to which he alone of all men that euer returned went and brake the strength and force thereof which till that time was vntouched Theophilus the sixt bishop of Antioch about 170 yeeres after Christ alleageth against Autolycus a maligner of Christian religion the verses of Sybilla to prooue that the Gentiles did sacrifice to diuels ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã You made sacrifices to diuels in hades Clemens Alexandrinus not long after labouring to proue that Peters words Christ preached to the spirits in prison pertained to the wicked not to the godly giueth this reason ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã who being well aduised will thinke the soules of the iust and of sinners to be in one condââ¦mnation Whence he concludeth that none heard Christs voice there but ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã such as were placed in hades and had yeelded themselues wââ¦ttingly to destruction And for proofe thereof alleageth these words as out of the Scripture ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades sayd to destruction We saw not his shape but we heard his voice I cite not these places to approoue euery allegation or opinion that is occurrent but to shew in what sense the auncient Greeke writers that were Christians vsed the worde Hades not for the common condition and state of soules iust and vniust which Clemens heere disaââ¦oweth but for the place where the wicked were detained that wilfully wrought their owne destruction Eusebius speaking in the person of Christ saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã I see my descent to Hades approch and the rebellion against me of the contrarie powers that are enemies to God He saith Eusebius went thither ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for the saluation of the soules that were in Hades and descended to breake the brasen gates ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to dismis those that before were prisoners of hades And out of Plato he alleageth this for a trueth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that the soules of the wicked immediately after death departing hence endure the punishment in Hades of their doings heere Athanasius a man of no meane iudgement in whose confession or Creede allowed in the Booke of Common Prayer we finde it a part of the Christian faith that Christ descended to Hades declareth in infinite places what he meaneth by the word Hades After man had sinned saith he and was fallen by his fall death preuailed from Adam vntill Christ the earth was accursed ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades was opened Paradise was closed Heauen was offended but after all things were deliuââ¦red to Christ the whole was reformed and persited the earth in steede of a curse was blessed paradise was opened ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades shranke for feare the gates of heauen were left open He suffering for vs recouered vs and hungring refreshed vs ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã And descending to hades brought vs backe For if the Lord had not beene made man we had neuer risen from the dead as redeemed from our sinnes but had remained vnder the earth as dead neither had we euer beene lifted vp to heauen ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but had lien in hades Againe he that examined mans disobedience and gaue iudgement inflicted a double punishment saying to that which was earthly Earth thou art and to earth shalt thou returne and to the soule Thou shalt die the death and so man was distracted into two parts and condemned to abide after death in two places If you can shew an other place whither man was condemned well may you say man was deuided into three parts and that being recouered out of two places he remaineth bound and chained in the third ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but if you can shew none other place besidââ¦s the graue and hades hell out of which man was perfectly freed by Christ how say you then that God is not yet reconciled to man This appeareth not onely in vs but in the death of Christ the body comming to the graue ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and the soule descending to Hades being places that are seuered with a great distance the graue receauing his body for there it was present and hades his spirit or soule els how did Christ present the shape of his owne soule to the soules detained in bandes ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that hee might breake in sunder the bandes of the soules detained in hades So likewise speaking of Christes persuing the diuell by his life and death hee else where saith The diuell was fallen from heauen hee was cast from the earth hee was persued in the aire euery where conquered and euery where straightned ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã he determined to keepe Hades hell for this place was yet left him But the Lord a true Sauiour would not leane his worke vnfinished ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã nor leaue those that were in hades as yeelded
to the enemie The diuell therefore ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã thinking to kill one lost all and hoping to carie one to Hades hell was himselfe cast out of hades hell ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades hell is abrogated death no more preuailing but all being raised to life neither can the diuell stand vp any more against vs but is fallen and indeed creepeth on his brest and bellie And therefore of the Saints he saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and in fine they saw Hades hell spoiled Epiphanius in sundrie places expresseth the parts and purpose of Christs descending to hell or hades He was crucified buried ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hee descended to the places vnder earth in his diuinitie and in his soule he tooke captiuitie captiue and rose againe the third day What here he calleth places vnder the earth whither Christes soule went after his death that elswhere he calleth Hades The Godhead of Christ would performe all things that perteined to the mysterie of his passion ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and would descend together with his soule to the infernall places to worke the saluation there of such as were before dead I meane the holy Patriarcks ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. that he might performe the things he would against hades in the forme of a man euen in hades that the chiefe Ruler HADES and death thinking to lay hands on a man and not knowing his Deitie vnited to his sacred soule Hades himselfe might rather be surprised and death dissolued and that fulfilled which was spoken Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hades Basil Death is not altogether euill except you speake of the death of a sinner ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã because their departure hence is the beginning of their punishments in hades againe the euââ¦s that are in hades haue not God for their cause but our selues the head and root of sinne is in vs and in our willes And againe Dathan and Abiram were swallowed vp of earth the gulfes and clefts thereof opening vnder them Heere were not they the better for this kinde of punishment ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for how should they be so that went to hades to hell but they made the rest the wiser by their example And writing on the 48 Psalme Because man turned himselfe from the word of God and became a beast the enemie caught him as a sheepe without a shepheard ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and put him in hades hell but when he sayth God will redeeme my soule from the power of hades he doth plainly prophesie ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the descent of the Lord to hades who would redeeme the Prophets soule with others not to abide there Nazianzene in his second Oration against Iulian the Renââ¦gate ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Stop thou thy secrets and wayes that leade to hell hades I will declare the plaine wayes which leade to heauen And of Christ he sayth Christ died but he restored to life and with his death abolished death He was buried but he rose againe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã He descended to hell hades but he brought backe soules and ascended to heauen Macarius When thou hearest that Christ deliuered soules ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã out of hell hades and darkeneââ¦se and that the Lord descended to hades and did an admirable worke thinke not these thinâ⦠to be farre from thine owne soule And thus he maketh Christ to speake to death and to the diuell ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. I command thee hades and darkenesse and death restore the soules inclosed And so the wickâ⦠powers trembling refund man that was inclosed Cyrill of Alexandria In olde times before Christ the soules of men departing from their bodies were sent to fill the receptacles of death ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã in dennes vnder the earth But after Christ commended his oââ¦ne soule to his Father he renewed the same way for vs ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã And now we goe not to bades from any place but we follow him rather in this and committing our soules to a faithfull Creatour we rest in excellent hope Yet of Christ he aââ¦firmeth The soule which was coupled and vnited to the word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã descended into hades and vsing the power and force of the Godhead ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã shewed it selââ¦e to the spirits or soules there For we must not say that the Godhead of the onely begotten which is a nature vncapable of death and no waâ⦠conquerable by it ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã was brought backe from the dââ¦es vnder the earth Cyrill of Ierusalem like wise in his Catechismes vpon those words of the Psalme If ascend to heauen thou art there if I goe downe to hades tââ¦u art preââ¦ent sayth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. If tââ¦ere ââ¦e ââ¦ing higher than the heauens and hades be lower than the earth he that compreââ¦ââ¦eth the ââ¦owest doth also touch the earth And to those that were baptized he sayth When thou renouncest Satan thou hast vtterly abrogated the couenant had with him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. euen the olde couenant ââ¦ith hades hell and the Paradise of God is opened to thee In the Homilies which Leo the Emperour made for the exercise of his stââ¦le and confession of his faith it is said ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Christ is risen bringing Hades prisoner with him and proclaiming lilibertie to the capitues He that held others bound is now in bonds himselfe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Christ is come from hades with the ensigne of his triumph the sowre and heauie lookes of those that are vtterly ouerthrowen ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã as of Hades death and the hatefull diuels Damascene ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã c. The soule deisied descended to Hades that as to those on earth the Sonne of righteousnesse was risen ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã so to those that sate vnder the earth in darkenesse and in the shadow light might shine The brazen gates were torne the iron barres were broken ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and the keeper of Hades hell did shake for feare and the foundations of the world were laid open Cydonius ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã That there is in hades hell vengeance for all sinnes heere committed not onely the consent of all wise men but also the equalitie of the Diuine iustice confirmeth and strengthmeth this opinion Aeneas Gazeus He that in a priuate life committeth small sinnes and lamenteth them escapeth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the punishments that are in Hades hell Gregentius Christ tooke a rodde out of the earth which was his pretious crosse stretching his right hand strake all his enemies conquered them ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that is Hades death sin and that wilââ¦e serpent Theophylact. The rich man dying is not caried by the angels ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but
their bodies in the dust of the earth And therefore that which followeth and is by you cited By this which we confesse that the Lord descended to infernus we must vnderstand that the Lord ioined himselfe in spirit to the spirits of the Saints deceased that I say is added as a consequent to Christs death and not as the proper signification of the phrase For it were more then absurd by your leaue that one and the same word which he saith signifieth the graue should properly note the burying of the body in earth below and the ascending of the spirit to heauen on high though in all the Saints the one is performed as well as the other And where Bucere seemeth to impugne the sense which the fathers gaue of this Article as his reasons be none so his words in no wise mans iudgement can ouersway theirs Peter martyr that Christ descended to inferos or hades signifieth nothing els but that he did vnder goe the same state as other soules doe that depart this life Why stoppe you there are you bleere eied that you cannot see what presently followeth or short winded that you can read no farder the very next words will plainly shew with what sincerity and fidelity you be conuersant in old and new writers Peter Martyrs words are these Eundem subijt statum quem reliquae animae à corpore seiunctae experiuntur quae aut in Sanctorum societatem coaptantur aut cum damnatorum spiritibus in aeternum exitium detruduntur Et vero vna atque altera tum piorum spirituum tum eorum qui damnati essent societas animae Christi praesentiam persensit The soule of Christ did vndergoe the same state by going to the same place which the rest of the soules seuered from the body doe trie that are either admitted into the fellowship of the saints or cast into euerlasting destruction with the spirits of the damned For both the one and the other society aswell of godly soules as of those that were damned perceaued the presence of Christs soule The soule then of Christ by Peter Martyrs iudgement cleane contrary to Bucers went aswell to the place of the damned as to the seats of the blessed and either society perceaued the presence of his soule seuered from his body Mollerus touching Sheol Hades and infernum ascribed to Christ saith they do signisie but that Christ died and to be no more then if he should say in the Psalme therefore I reioice because I know that although I die yet I shall rise to life againe Of Sheol Mollerus saith Saepe pro sepulchro dicââ¦tur it is often taken for the graue which no man denieth Of hades and infernus he speaketh not a word And albeit he be of opinion that Christs descent to hell sat is certò euinci non potest ex hoc loco cannot cleerely and fully be euinced out of this place of the Psalme by reason as he thinketh the words may be wrested to diuers senses yet touching Christs descent to hel he saith We vnderstand that Article of the Creed simply and without allegory and we beleeue that Christ truely descended to the lower parts of the earth as Paul speaketh Ephes. 4. and his victory he would shew to the Diuels after a speciall manner to strike perpetuall terrors into them and to free vs from the feare of their tyranny Bullinger speaking of Christ and indifferently of the godly sheweth that to goe to infernus is to goe to Abrahams bosome that is into heauen not into hell And that inferi and hades doe makâ⦠difference onely betweene the liuing and the dead and nothing els Bullinger bringeth foure senses of that Article of the Creed Christ descended to Inferna The first that is all one with he was buried which exposition he saith others mislike The second is Austens who in his Epistle to Dardanus writeth The Lord descended to Tartarus but felt there no torment The third to which he more inclineth Longe simplicius videbimur hunc articulum intelligere si senserimus virtutem mortis Christi dimanasse etiam ad defunctos his profuisse We shall seeme farre more simply to vnderstand this article if we thinke that the force of Christs death pearced euen to the dead and profited them The fourth is Vel certe per inferos inferna intelligimus non locum certè destinatum impijs sed defunctos fideles Or els by inferi inferna we vnderstand not the place of punishment appointed for the wicked but the faithfull deceased Here are all foure senses He liketh best that the vertue and force of Christs death descended and was shewed both to the blessed and to the damned as Saint Peter telleth vs that the Lord went in spirit and preached to the spirits that were inobedient and kept in prison Nimirum innotuit his iust a damnationis ex morte Christi sententia For euen to the damned appeared the sentence of their condemnation to be iust by the death of Christ. This he confesseth Christ did in spirit If by Christs spirit he ment Christs soule he expressely refuteh your conceits If he mean the force of Christs diuine spirit descended he hath Athanasius Cyril and others opposite against him Athanasius saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã How could the word or Sonne of God descend to Hades And againe ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã How could he descend with his Godhead open and vncouered ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Neither could hades endure the accesse of his Godhead vncouered And so Cyrill ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Neither in any wise may we say that the Godhead of the only begotten was brought from hades or the dennes vnder the earth for that was not worthy of woondering if the Sonne of God were not left in hades Exactly they teach that the Deitie of Christ or his diuine spirit could by no meanes be sayd to descend to hades or to returne from thence but it must be verified of his humane soule which reuealed it selfe and the vertue of his death as well to the damned as to the blessed Lauater saith Hades in Greââ¦ke is a generall word for the condition of the dead both in torments and in peace Lauater saith of hades as he doth of Sheól that Non solum locum Damnatorum sed Sââ¦pulchrum vel statum mortuorum passim in Scripturis signisicat it signisieth not onely the place of the damned but also the graue or state of the dead And so doth Hades with the septuagint who alwaies render Sheôl by that word Now the graue or state of the dead the one being an exposition of the other reacheth not to the Soules of the godly which are not in their graues but to their bodies and hath in it corruption silence obliuion and priuation of all things in this life from which the graue excludeth them be they neuer so blessed And so
doth the like He retaineth in the same verse the word hawwito twice saying as Iunius rendreth it God raised him vp and scattered the sorrowes of perditien because it was not possible that he should be coÌquered of perdition Where Iunius plainly yeeldeth that this word in Arabicke answereth the Greeke word f hadou not thanátou which appeareth also in the 6 verse of the same chap. Thou wilt not leaue my soule phâ⦠hawwito in perdition Which Saint Luke calleth hades and in the 10 Christ was not left in perdition So that Austen had some reason more then you knew to follow the first translator concurring with many Greeke copies that then were and yet are extant and with the Syricke and Arabicke translations who followed the same copies with the Latin church This text is cited in Ireneus â⦠whom God raised sââ¦lutis deloribus inferorum quia non erat possible teneri eum ab eis loosing the sorrowes of hell because it was not possible for him to be held of them Cyprian thus expresseth it Impossibile quippe erat sanctam illam animam teneri ab inferis It was impossible for that sacred soule to be held of hell Fulgentius citeth it Solutis inferni doloribus the sorrowes of hell being loosed Bede taketh both for one in this place k Solutosper Dominum dicit dolores inferni siue mortis Peter saith the sorows of hell or death were dissolued by Christ. Since then both are found in many Greeke copies and neither can be reiected as false the name of death if you retaine it must be so expounded as it may not impugne the force of hades and death hauing a double power place and subiect as the death of the body heere on earth and the death of the soule in hell heereafter this later death and hell doe rightly match together the sorrowes of which were losed by Christ because it was impossible for him to be taken or touched by them You quarrell also with the translation which Austen followed for saying in illis in them though that be the right intent of the text and you sticke not to straine Peters words to what higth you list So that you keepe the words and alter the sense and Austen keepeth the sense though he vary somewhat from the words For that was loosed of which it was impossible Christ should be held and euen therefore was it to be loosed because he could not be held therein But the sorrowes of death or hell were loosed It was therefore impossible Christ should be held of them I meane of the sorrowes of either The sense then is rightly and aptly taken though the plurall be put in stood of the singular and Caluin himselfe in respect of the sense retaineth that change though the words doe somewhat differ from the text In this sense Peter saith Christ rose the sorowes of death being loosed ââ¦a quibus impossibile erat ipsum tenert of which sorrowes it was impossible he should be held Now if you or any man els can find vs those sorrowes after Christs bodily death we are readie to heare you for they were loosed when Christ was raised but if you cannot as in vaine you haue profered to doe then must the words be expounded that though the soule of Christ after death were in hades euen in the place of torment where it was not left nor forsaken yet the sorowes thereof could not touch him but he loosed and scattered them when he was raised to immortality and heauenly power and glory persuaded of this point heare him againe in the same Epistle Quamobrem teneamus firmissimè quod fides habet fundatissima authoritate sirmata quia Christus mortuus est secundum Scripturas quia sepultus est quia resurrexit tertia die secundum Scripturas cetera quae de illo testatissima veritate conscripta sunt In quibus etiam hoc est quod apud inferos fuit solutis eorum doloribus quibus eum erat impossibile teneri Wherefore let vs most firmely hold that which our faith hath being confirmed by most grounded authority as that Christ died according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the third day according to the Scriptures and the rest of those things which are written of him in trueth most cleerely testified Amongst which this is also one point that he was in hell and loosed the sorrowes thereof of which it was impossible he should be held This is such a resolution that if you were soberly minded and not phantastically conceited as well in doctrine as in Discipline you would beware how you crossed the faith of the whole Church without more pregnant and euident matter then you haue any and not thinke it enough to shift with Poeticall fansies metaphoricall senses and palpable contrarieties and falsities such as few men would fall into besides your selfe And as for the exposition of Peters wordes which Austen leaueth indifferent if it dislike any man that concerneth the place of Peters first Epistle the third Chapter beginning at the 18. verse How Christ in spirit went and preached vnto the spirits in prison who were disobedient in the daies of Noe Which was the question proposed to him by Euodius to whom he wrote his 99. Epistle And of that he saith Consider yet least happely all that which Peter speaketh of spirits closed in prison which beleeued not in the daies of Noe omnino ad inferos non pertineat sed ad illa potius tempora quorum formam ad haec tempora transtulit pertaine not at all to hell but to those times which Peter compareth with these times And after large discoursing how that comparison might stand he concludeth with your words This exposition of Peters words if it dislike any or doe not satisfie quaerat ea secundum Inferos intelligere let him seeke in Gods Name how to fit the things there written to them in hell So that his exposition subiected to other mens liking did not concerne hell at all nor Christs preaching there but the preaching of repentance in the daies of Noah by the spirit of Christ and if any man liked not that exposition of Peters words he might seeke how to make Peters words agree with things done in hell if he could tell how to performe it Moe circumstances of this text Acts 2. do make affirmatiuely for vs first Peter plainly graunteth all this matter of Dauid as wel as of Christ. But that I am well acquainted with your pertinacie I should muze at this insolencie Peter doth exactly proue that this prophesie was neuer verified in Dauid because Dauids flesh saw corruption as was euident by his Sepulchre remaining with them to that day Since then it was not true of Dauids person that he saw no corruption he spake this as a Prophet knowing that God had sworne to raise vp Christ concerning the flesh to set him vpon his throne You
thou know it Shall it suiââ¦ce in this place to say the cloudes are high the starres are higher all which we see with our eyes and can obserue their course or must we cast our thoughts on the highest heauen wherein we neither see nor know any thing but what God reuealeth by his word and which is the chiefest place of his perfection So Dauid Whither shall I flie from thy presence If I ascend into heauen thou art there if â⦠get downe to Sheol below thou art there also If I take the wings of the morning and dââ¦d in the furdââ¦ct parts of the Sea there thy right hand shall hold me Ascending to the highest descending to the lowest and going to the fardest we passe through all places If God be then in the highest in the lowest and in the midst whither can we flee from him who is euery where all places being here contained the highest heauens are not omitted The Prophet Amos hath the like both purpose and partition where God assureth Israel they cannot decline his hand whither soeuer they could or would goe whether to heauen on high to Sheol below to the bredth of the mountaines or to the depth of the Sea If out of his diuision you exclude hell or heauen as places whither Gods hand can not reach doe you not with your impertinent Sophistrie broch vs a manifest heresie wherefore Shammaijm here is any or euery part of heauen euen as the earth is diuided by bredth and depth into the hils the Seas and Sheol vnderneath which is here conuinced to be in the earth because God saith though they digge into Sheol teaching vs that the lowest Sheol is in the earth which onely can be digged and not either in water or aire which can not be digged As for the 14 of Esay from which Christ deriued his threatning to Capernaum as resembling the pride and deseruing the punishment of the king of Babel the words there are so direct for Shammaijm to be the highest heauen euen the place of Gods throne that you thought best to skippe it ouer with a false translation and not to trouble your selfe any farder The pride of the King of Babylon is there thus expressed Thou saidst in thine heart I will ascend to heauen and will exalt my Throne aboue the starres of God I will ascend aboue the higth of the clouds and wil be like the most highest But thou shall be drawen downe to Sheol euen to the sides or lowest parts of the pit Shammaijm comprising three regions at least the clouds the starres the place of Gods throne the king of Babylon in his proud ambition said he would ascend aboue the higth of the clouds aboue the starres of God and would exalt his throne like to the most highest I hope Shammaijm here to which the king of Babylon would ascend was neither the clouds nor the starres they both are by name excluded and consequently not the skies as you fasly translate the Prophets words but it was the resemblance of Gods throne and the place of his glory to which that proud tyrant aspired Neither ment he there to be one of Gods Saints as you would childishly chalenge your opponent but what place of glory others get at Gods hands by obedience and humility he would in his arrogant heart assume vnto himselfe with rebellion and emulation of Gods greatnesse euen as Adam and Eue neuer ment to be Saints when they accepted the Diuels offer ye shal be as Gods but desired no longer to be subiect to God and sought to get a similitude if not an equality with God So did the King of Babel affect to be like the most highest though he were fardest from it of all others For the Prophet doth not in these words expresse what the king of Babylon was indeed but what his arrogant spirit conceaued in thinking there was no God greater then himselfe This monstrous pride of his being the higth of all impiety and blasphemie what reward in your conscience was it worthy to haue a plaine no being any longer amongst the liuing which you say Daniel affirmeth of the Messias or a iudgement proportionable to his wickednesse that is to be cast downe to the bottom of hell for exalting himselfe to the top of heauen Your spinning of cobwebbes about an inglorious destruction is no way sufficient for this offence except you meane destruction of body and soule in hell with the sight and shame of his folly and so if you ioine the vtter and eternall destruction of his person and his pride you agnise Sheol to be hell as I doe and haue not the witte to see that when a man is taken hence to that terrible and intolerable vengeance all worldlie things first faile him and the remembrance of his forme plenty and glory augmenteth the griefe of his present penurie and misery Els how auoide you contradiction as well to the trueth as to your selfe in your two signification of Sheol Sheol opposed to Shammaijm you say signifieth not hell the place of torments but aâ⦠vast and deepe guise onely or pit in the earth the bottome where of we know not If you deriue this vast and deepe gulfe in the earth from the warrant of holy Scripture I must aske you first how many of these gulses the scripture admitteth to be in the earth next what vse there is of them The Scripture mentioneth the lower Sheol indeed so called in respect of the higher which is the graue common to the bodies of good and bad Other Sheols in the earth the Scripture knoweth none Now for whom is this lower gulfe in the earth prouided for men or for oxen and sheepe which you were placing there euen now by warrant pretended from Moses and the Psalmist but that you fouly mistooke the words of both When God openeth the earth to swallow vp men and all that belongeth to them as he did to the rebels in the wildernesse he hath roome enough in the earth to couer and close that which doth not descend to Sheol without your vast and deepe gulfe If you confesse this vast and deepe gulfe in the earth to serue for wicked men after death then come you neerer to the Scriptures but as neere to hell For Dauid saying vnto God Thou hast deliuered my soule from the lower Sheol declareth the lower Sheol to be a receptacle for the soules of such as God doth not shew mercy vnto SalomoÌ saith of such as haunted harlots Her guests are in the depth of Sheól Moses telleth you The sire of Gods wrath burneth to the lower Sheól In the lower Sheol then are the soules of the wicked and fire there burning for them If your vast and deepe gulfe in the earth be all one with this we know the place to be hell and the vse thereof the punishment of the wicked If it differ from this you must tell vs by the word of God wherefore it
as you doe tending all to expresse one thing but seeke a little to shew vs what matter is contained in them you should soone see what labour you haue lost in this Carrecke of words which you haue newly brought vs home Your meere and simple death which you say is nothing els but the going asunder of the soule from the body hath of necessitie thus much in it It is the separation of the soule from the body which is the cause of life in the body It is the dissolution of the person which consisteth of body and soule It is the priuation of life which endeth with the departing of the soule It is the continuing of death since possibly there is no regresse from the priuation to the habite without the mightie hand of God working aboue nature For the soule departing neuer returneth till God commaund by whose word heauen and earth were made What now after death becommeth of both parts of man is no hard matter to conceaue Salomon saith Dust meaning flesh first made of dust returneth to earth as it was and the spirit to God that gaue it by him to be disposed and adiudged to ioy or paine as pleaseth him The body then goeth to corruption the soule receaueth iudgement where it shall remaine in hell or heauen till the bodie be restored againe which shall be at the last day Descending to hades after death cannot be verified of the whole person of man but in respect of the parts Referred to the body it is as much as buried and laide in the place where it shall putrifie and returne to dust Applied to the soule it must signifie the place to which the soule is caried which I say must be vnder earth since heauen is neuer called by that name nor expressed by that word either in the Scriptures or in any other sacred or prophane writers The power and dominion of death which you so much speake of is nothing else but Gods ordinance that from death there is no returne to life till hee appoint If then there be no dominion nor kingdome of death preuailing or ruling in heauen where the soules of the Saints are without their bodies then Christ in ascending to heauen descended not to Hades Againe with what trueth can you auouch Christes soule came vnder the full power and dominion of death since death had no power ouer the bodie or soule of Christ longer or farder then he himselfe would permit and his soule free from all bands and paines of death destroied the dominion and kingdome of death to which it was alwaies superiour and neuer subiect but onely that he might shew himselfe with greater power to be conquerer of death rather in rising from the dead then in declining the force of death as if he were not able after death and in death to dissolue the dominion and power of death Wherefore your exaggerating the power and dominion of death OVER THE SOVLE of Christ and that IN HEAVEN whither you graunt Christes soule went after death is not onely a vaine and idle flourish but a poisoned and pestilent doctrine if you take not heed to it since no power of death but Christes will to shew himselfe Lord of life and death either seuered his soule from his bodie or bestowed his soule in any place after death or detained him in the condition of death but he was free to die when he would and rise from death when he would which euerteth all power and dominion of death ouer him how much soeuer in wastefull wordes you auouch the contrarie Touching the proprietie of wordes that you say is as true as the rest For Hades hath no such natiue and proper sense as you talke of but exactly and directly when it is referred to a place and not to a person signifieth a place of darknesse where nothing can be seene as with one consent Heathen and Christian writers acknowledge And the word descending after death which you must applie to the soule ascending to heauen you childishly change into the fall of the person from lise to death or inconstantly varie you know not how to Christes submission when he died or his abasement by lying held and subdued so long time in death Where againe you incurre the same sands that you did before in affirming Christ was held and subdued of death for the time which is plainly false doctrine since he would abide that time in death least any should thinke him not truely dead but was neuer vnder the power and dominion of death And as for lying held in death that phrase is strangely referred to the soule of Christ which ascended to the third heauen with more honour and ioy then it receaued in this life heere on earth What Ruffine saith is not much to be regarded if we beleeue S. Ierom neither was Ruffines faith sound nor his authoritie any thing in the Church and yet were he woorth the respecting he maketh more against you then for you For first these wordes are not vsed as an exposition of Christs descent to Hades but Ruffine saith Diuina natura in mortem per carnem descendit non vt lege mortalium detinerââ¦tur a Morte sed vt per se resurrecturus ianuas mortis aperiret The diuine nature of Christ descended to death by his flesh not to be held of death after the law of mortall men but that rising of himselfe hee might open the gates of death Where he saith the diuine nature descended to death he speaketh not of the soule but of the godhead of Christ which words by your leaue require a sober interpretation and yet in respect of the diuine glory the phrase of descending vnto death signifieth Christes submission to die not his descent after death And withall he refelleth two of your fansies first that Christ was was not held of death which you say he was Secondly that he followed not heerein the lââ¦w of mans nature which you say he did And that Christes soule descended to hell by Ruffines opinion his wordes are plaine enough in many places He applieth that to Christ which Dauid saith Thou hast brought my soule out of hell and alleaging the place of Peter In his spirit Christ preached to them which were in prison heerein saith ââ¦e it is declared quid operââ¦ââ¦gerit in Inferno What Christ did in hell So that the lesse hold you take of Ruffine the better for you and your cause he will doe more harme then good If any thinke this to be somewhat figuratiue yet is it verely so familiar and easie to all people as that other word in the Creede is he sitteth at the right hand of God yea it is farre easier When you can diue deepe into your owne fansies you thinke them as familiar to all others as to your selfe If this were so easie and readie with the simpler sort as you make it me thinkes it should not so much trouble
their Creede yet retained the sense and meaning of them in that they were perswaded this was the law of humane necessitie without Christ that as mens bodies were buried so their soules descended to hell which descent Christ refused not to restore men as Hilarie and others auouch This you say was Ruffines owne meaning who going about to proue by the Scripture that Christ descended to Infernum sheweth that he meaneth his death hereby his buriall I suppose few men will trust you hauing tried you false so often Ruffine going about to prooue by the Scripture of the old Testament that euery part of Christes passion and his resurrection was fore-shewed in the law and the Prophets plainely distinguisheth his death buriall and descent to Hell For Christs death he saith spiritum post haec scribitur reddidisse after this it is written that hee gaue vp the Ghost This was fore spoken by the Prophet saying into thy handes I commend my spirit Sepultus quoque perhibetur He is then said to be buried For which he alleageth a place of Ieremie and addeth Euidentissima haec Sepulturae eius indicia propheticis vocibus designata sunt accipe tamen alia These most manifest signes of his buriall are expressed in the Prophets speeches and yet thou shalt haue other Where he alleageth three other places of Scripture how fitly to his purpose I need not pronounce Then commeth he to Christes descent to hell and saith Sed quód in Infernum descendit euidenter praenunciatur in Psalmis That also he descended to hell is evidently fore told in the Psalmes Now whether his places bee aptly cited or no is not to the question though you make that your whole aduantage For first they be as aptly cited as the rest Next they haue euery one of them somewhat more in Rusfines apprehension then of Christes buriall For hee standeth not onely on those wordes the dust and corruption of death but hee fastneth most on the words of descending and bringing downe in limum profundi to the mire of the deepe Which things though you flurt at as waighing light in your eyes it is certaine he intended thereby more then the graue as is euident by his owne wordes For citing the place of Peter thus In which spirit Christ descended to preach to the spirits inclosed in prison which were incredulous in the dayes of Noe he addeth in quo quid operis egerââ¦m in Inferno declaratur in which it is declared what Christ did in hell In the graue I trust Christ did nothing In Paradise he did not preach to those that were in prison disobedient in the dayes of Noe. Since then this end of Christs descent to hell is expressed by Ruffinus and this could not bee done either in the graue where nothing can be done or in heauen where these disobedients were not in prison It is cleere that Ruffinus had no such meaning as you make him by Christes descent to intend no more but his death and buriall He holdeth indeed that Christ went downe to Infernum that is to Limbus patrum as an opinion then common among them and worthie as he thought to be beleeued If hee ment this as you now confesse then he ment more by Christes descending to Infernum then Christes death and buriall And so by your owne mouth you are conuinced of a lie fathered on Ruffinus against both his words meaning And yet I find no such expresse mention or description of Limbus in Ruffines words as you would seeme to impose vpon him He mentioneth Christs conquest ouer hell quód Inferna sibi Regna ãâã that Christ would subiect the Infernali kingdome to himselfe qui mortis habebat Imperium disruptis Inferni claustris velut de profundo tractus he that had the rule of death was drawen as it were from the deepe the cloisters of hell being broken open He saith also Animabus de Inferni captiuit ate reuocatis the soules being reuoked from the captiuitie of hell but whom he thereby meaneth he expressed before with the Apostles words when he said qui simul consuscitauit nos simulque sedere fecit in caelestibus Christ raised vs vp together with himselfe and made vs sit in heauenly places with him So that if you and your friends when you prate so much against all or the most of the auncient fathers as vpholding Limbus would bethinke your selues that most of them speake indifferently as well of the liuing and yet vnborne as of the dead before Christes time when they say that soules were deliuered out of the bondage and captiuitie of hell and Satan you should doe them lesse wrong and lesse deceaue your selues then now you doe And for those fathers that indeede were of this opinion that before Christes resurrection Abrahams bosome was vnder the earth you shall doe well to thinke and speake more reuerently of them considering what master Bullingere a learned and graue Diuine resolued euen of that point Sinus Abrahae aliud non est quam portus salutis vbi autem fuerat quondaÌ hic locus an apud superos an apud inferos nolo pronunciare imo malo ignorare quam temere definire quodliteris sacris expressum non habeo In his vt curiosus esse nolo ita nihil desinio cum nemine super hac re contendere volo Satis mihi est intelligere fateri veteres sanctos in refrigerio loco vtique certo non in tormentis ante ascensionem Domini fuisse vt maximé ignorem vbi ille locus fuerit The bosome of Abraham is nothing els but an entrance or port of saluation Where this place formerly was whether aboue in some part of the heauens or below vnder the earth I will not pronounce Yea I had rather be ignorant thereof then roshly to define that which I find not expressed in the Scriptures In these things as I will not be curious so doe I determine nothing neither will I contend with any man about this matter It shall suffice me to vnderstand and confesse that the godly of the old Testament were in a certaine place of rest not in terments before the oscension of Christ though I know not where that place was That it was no part nor member of hell we haue S. Austins firme resolution grounding himselfe on the words which our Sauiour in the Gospell ascribeth to Abraham Betweene you and vs there is a great gulfe setlââ¦d But whether it were vnder the earth till Christs resurrection of that some fathers doubted wherein we may not be reprochfull to them though we dissent from them since the Scriptures as this great Diuine thinketh expresly decide not the question Ignatius you thinke is cleerely yours likewise one Thaddeus by Eusebius report one of the 70. disciples which the Euangelist Luke speakes of Also Athanasius Creed Ignatiâ⦠saying Christ desââ¦ended to hades alone but rose againe with many meaneth euidently
renounceth apparantly this sense of the Creed that Christ descended to the hell of the damned Now that is nothing so they thought not good in this Article of the Creed to expresse more then was aunciently set downe for the people to beleeue but they doe not reiect as false whatsoeuer they omit of the later words of King Edwards Synod For so they should reiect this also for false that Christs body lay in the graue till his resurrection which I trust no Christian man doubteth Three things I said there were which the later Synod might conceaue to be conteined in the former that could not be iustified by the Scriptures and in that respect they might leaue out those later words not cutting of putting out or casting away as you ruffle in your termes euery thing there mentioned for so they should cast away aswell the buriall of Christs body as the presence of his soule in hell but refraining to confirme those later words both because there was somewhat amisse in them and they would not impose more on the people to beleeue then was at first comprised in their Creed as also for that they would not establish this to be the right and vndoubted sense of Peters words that Christ in soule preached to the spirits in hell You ââ¦arge these words of King Edwards Synod with two points which are not in them First that it saith how the spirits of the iust were in hell and that Christ descending thither staied there till his resurrection In me you would make this a great matter so to misreport the words of a Synod which indeed saith nothing hereof Were there no more but this in the words of that Synod that the preaching of Christ to the spirits in hell is set down there as the sole cause of his descent thither or that this sense of S. Peters words is imposed on all men by their authority to be beleeued either of these was reason sufficient to omit those later words of King Edwards Synod But if we rightly looke into the manner and purpose of their speach we shall easily see that I wrong them not For by those words they ment to shew the places where Christs soule and body did abide after they were seuered vntill the resurrection His body say they euen vntill the resurrection lay in the graue his soule being breathed out was vntill the same time with the spirits in prison or hell and preached to them as the place of Peter doth witnesse To say that the soule of Christ dismissed from his body was not at all in the place where the spirits of the iust were had been repugnant to Peters words in the next Chapter if we grant as they did by these words of Peter that Christ preached to the dead For there it is said The Gospell that is the glad tidings of Redemption performed was preached to the dead Which could not be to the wicked since the Gospell was not preached vnto theÌ but the iustnesse of their condemnation rather published vnto them Since then as they tooke S. Peters words Christ preached to both the iust and vniust and by their Article declaring where Christ abode after death no more is expressed but that Christ was with the spirits in prison and hell and preached vnto them How can it in any reasonable mans iudgement be auoided but that their words implie the iust were in prison and in hell where Christ preached Neither was this so strange a thing in those daies since many hundred yeeres before it was receaued in most mens mouths and minds that the iust deceased before Christs death were in the same place called hell with the wicked though not in the same paines and many of the Fathers directly affirme no lesse Seing then themselues in their words make no difference betwixt the iust and vniust and generally auouch that Christs soule was with the spirits in hell and preached to them by warrant of Peters words who saith The Gospell was preached to the dead What reason had I to wrest their words to any other sense then that which I saw currant in many fathers before them whose steps by the generall purport of their words they seemed to follow And how iustly might the later Synod refuse those words of theirs which were either so dangerons or so doubtfull that they might not safely be retained It is well that you renounce that of Peter by Austens direction as making not at all for any locall being of Christ in hell But yet herein your selfe openly refuseth the mind of all your Predecessors yea of our later Synode if they beleeued as you vrge they did For if they liked Christs locall being in hel they misliked not the applying of that in Peter thereunto as by Master Nowels Catechisme may appeare It is true that I refrained to bring those places of Peter because Saint Austen though he strongly hold Christs descent to hell to be a part of the Christian faith yet he perceaued and confessed these places might haue an other sense and nothing touch Christs descent to hell Your illation that if the Synode liked Christs locall being in hell they misliked not the applying of that in Peter thereunto is like the rest of your collections As if Saint Austen did not like the one and yet mislike the other Notwithstanding there is difference betwixt liking a quotation as some way pertinent to the cause and proposing the same as a part of Christian Religion for all men of necessitie to imbrace The Synode might doe the one and yet not the other and so iustly leaue out that clause of the former Synode though Peters words in their opinions might haue some such intent Neither doe I preiudice any man to like or alleadge that place of Peter for this purpose since I bind no man to my priuate exposition of the Scriptures but rather stand on those places which haue the full consent of all antiquitie to pertaine directly to this matter Yet this is no barre but many auncient Fathers did vse that place of Peter to prooue Christs descent to hell as Athanasius Cyrill Hilarie and Ambrose did though Austen did not and the Synode in her Maiesties time that is now with God might like thereof to shew that Christ amongst other things did also confirme by his presence and preaching in hell the condemnation of the wicked there though I did not cite those places because Saint Austen had otherwise expounded them For take the word Spirite for the Soule of Christ as the same word is taken in the next verse following for the Soules of men where it is said In which he went and preached to the Spirits in prison and expound the word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã kept ââ¦liue or continuing in life as the Syriacke translator doth in saying Christ died in body and liued in spirit in which sense the Scripture saith A man may quicken his soule that is keepe
it aliue and then the words of Peter runne more easily for Christs descent to hell then for his preaching in the daies of Noah There is no doubt but Austens sense hath some difficulties and must haue some open additions to the text before it will agree therewith as by which he went and preached to those that now are spirits in prison and were once disobedient in the daies of Noah Againe neither wicked men liuing on earth are called ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã spirits by the course of the Scriptures neither were the despisers of Noahs preaching then in prison when he preached Besides that Peter heere purposely speaking of the death of Christ verse 18. persueth the consequents thereof in order as his descent to the spirits in prison vers 19. his resurrection vers 21. his ascension and sitting on the right hand of God vers 22. The impediment to the former sense is that they onely are mentioned which were disobedient in the daies of Noah where if we make the former words to be generall in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison and the next speciall as the point between may entend and to the disobedient in the daies of Noah or if this example be produced as the most famous wherein the whole and first world was drowned and so likest to the time of preaching the Gospell the contempt whereof should bring destruction on the second world and the iust be saued by water as Noah was through the resurrection of Christ that impediment is likewise remooued Howbeit I leaue it indifferent to euery man to follow what sense he liketh best the rather for that many old and new interpreters referre these words of Peter that Christ preached to the spirits in prison and the Gospell was preached to the dead to Christs descent to those places where these dead were both good and bad though I thought not fit to presse them when Austen had once resigned them And where you cite Master Nowels Caââ¦echisme to prooue that the later Synod misliked not the applying of Peters words to Christs descent to hell what doe you therein but as your manner is take the paines to refute your selfe For if they liked that which Master Nowell hath written of Christs descent to hell they allowed as much as I defend and consequently they did not apparantly renounce the doctrine of Christs going down to the hell of the damned as you did openly I must not say arrogantly pronounce It may be you will turne about when you see your selfe thus angled and say Master Nowell teacheth no more but that the power and efficacie of Christs passion was reuealed to the damned but the first point he teacheth is this ChristuÌ vt corpore in terrâ⦠visââ¦era it a anima à corpore separata ad inferos descendisse Christ as in body he went to the ââ¦wels of the earth which was his graue so in soule seuered from his body he descended ad inferos to hell The ends of Christs descent he maketh to be three where he saith Simuâ⦠etiam mortis suae virtutem atâ⦠efficacitatem ad ââ¦ortuos atâ⦠inferos adeo ipsos it a ãâã vâ⦠incredulorum animae c. And with all that is together with his soule the vertââ¦e ââ¦nd force of his death so pââ¦arced to the dead and euen to hell it selfe that firsâ⦠the ââ¦ules of the ââ¦ithlesse pââ¦rceaued the condemnation of their inââ¦delity to be most sharpe but ãâã iââ¦st Secondly and Satan the ruler of hell saâ⦠all the power of his tââ¦ny and of ãâã to be weââ¦ened ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Thirdly ãâã ãâã and the deceââ¦d ãâã in their lifâ⦠ãâã beleeue in Christ perceaued the worke of ãâã ãâã to be ãâã ãâã and ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã thereof with most sweet and ââ¦tain conââ¦ort Heere is as much as I desire grant this and I vrge you no farder And thus much the late Synod liked and appââ¦ued if you doe admit as you doe when pleaseth you Master Nowell for their interpreter Neither misliked they his tarying there till his resurrection which also Austen holdeth as firmely as that he was there If you speake of the later Synod you speake more then you can prooue If of others you must tell vs whom you meane It is not true that Austen fastened Christs soule to hell for three daies but rather confessed him to be free amongst the dead and so left to his owne liberty though the Scripture in Austens opinion nameth no place where Christs soule was after death besides hell If the soule saith he be straightway called to Paradise when the body is dead thinke ââ¦e any man so wiââ¦ked as to dare say that the soule of our Sauiour was for those three dââ¦ies of his bodily death restrained to the custody of hell Gregorius Nyssenus doth the like That the soule of our Lord commended into his Fathers hands quum it a bonum commodum illi visum esset etiam ad inferos descendit went also to hell when it seemed good and coââ¦nient vnto himselfe that ãâã might publish saluation to the soules in hell and be Lord ouer quicke and dead and spoile hell and might prepare a way for mans nature to returne to life after hee himselfe had beene the first fruits and first borne from the dead may be perceaued by many places of Scripture Anselmus a thousand yeeres after Christ sheweth that the Church in his time held not this so firmely as you imagine For asking by way of a Dialogue whither went Christs soule after death He answereth to the heauenly Paradise as he said to the Thiefe this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise When then went he to hell at midnight before his resurrection at what hower the Angell destroyed Egypt at that houre euen at midnight Christ sââ¦oiled hell and made their dââ¦kenesse as bright as day So that you talke out of time when you talke so much how long time Christ staied in hell The time and manner of his descent we leaue to God ââ¦t suââ¦iceth vs that the Scriptures witnesse he was there and rose both Sauiour of his owne and Lord of all That our English Clergie generally did or doe beleeue Christs locall descent to hell although they read and rehââ¦arse these words so translated certainly no man will nor ought to acknowledge That al did I neuer sayd we haue to much experience of you and some others that loue alwaies to be opposite to Lawes Creeds Canons and whatsoeuer pleaseth not your fansies but that all should I doe auouch by reason the Church of England in her publike seruice the Synod in their Articles and the Parliament of this Realme in their confirmation of both enioynâ⦠all men not onlâ⦠to reade those words so translated but to beleââ¦ue that Christ descended to Hell If ââ¦ou ãâã ãâã they are bound to belââ¦eue your emphaticall phrase or your phantasticalâ⦠imagination oâ⦠you know not what generall indââ¦finite
any reason or learning ergo Christs dead bodie depriued of soule and sense was the whole Ransom for our sinnes for that he meaneth by Christs death or ergo no action nor passion of Christs soule before or on his crosse was meritorious If I say these conclusions doe necessarily follow out of those words or out of the meaning of them then I must confesââ¦e I am fowly ouershot in my speach But if these be most ignorant and absurd collections from my words and from theirs that vsed that speââ¦ch before me then mayest thou see Christian Reader what meaning this man hath throughout this booke purposely to peruert and misconster all that I say to make thee beleeue I broch some strange and wonderous Doctrine But shifts lâ⦠hid but a while the shame in the end will be his How then can that which I sundrie times teach of Christs sufferings in his soule be true if our whole ranââ¦om and propitiation be bodily bloudy and deadly only which is the point ââ¦here stand on What contradiction finde you in my words that Christ might haue and had sufferings in his soule as feare sorrow and affliction of minde and yet died no death but only a bodilie Only a bodily death doth not exclude all paines which are not bodily but all deaths saue the death of the bodie Wherefore my conclusion is whââ¦re it was That the death which the Mediator must suffer for sinne by the Apostles doctrine must onely be bodily and bloodie and therefore by no meanes the death of the soule or of the damned Yet this ââ¦as not our whole rââ¦some you say nor the whole sacrifice for sinne the sufferings of his soule must be added vnto it When I speake of Christes death I vnderstand that maner and order of his death which the Euangelists describe for so the Scriptures meane when they speake of Christes death and from that death I doe not seuer those sufferings of his soule which the Scripturââ¦s mention because the sharpnesse of that death which his body was to suffer draue him to the deepe consideration of the cause why of the Iudge from whom and the captiue for whom he suffered Christ otherwise had not suffered death as a Redeemer if he had been ignorant of any of these or compelled by force to endure the furie of the Iewes he had power enough to stay their rage decline their bloudie hands yea to auert or decrease the paines as he thought good but because he was to offer himselfe as a willing sacrifice to suffer death to saue vs from the wrath of his Father he layed aside his owne power and submitted himselfe wholly to be disposed at his Fathers will which the Scriptures call his obedience vnto death When therefore he foresaw and felt how sharpe and painfull that death would be and was which he must and did suffer for our sinnes was it possible he should not fully cast the eyes of his ââ¦inde vpon the horror of our sinnes which did so sting him vpon the fiercenesse of Gods wrath which did so pursue him though he were his innocent and only sonne and vpon the terrible vengeance that rested for vs if he should mislike or refââ¦se to beare the burden of our offences If any man learned thinke it possible for Christ to suffer the one and not in spirit most cleerely to see the other I am content he shall seââ¦er the sufferings of Christs soule from the griefe and anguish of his bodily death but if it be more than absurd so to conceiue then finde we that the sight and sense of Christes extreame torments in bodie caused and vrged his soule thorowly to beholde these things with feare and sorrow which in themselues were most fearefull and could not châ⦠but affect Christes soule deeply and diuersly As for the whole ransome of our sinne we shall haue occasion in the next reason more largely to treate of But you haue reasons you say to confirme your maine matter among manie these two the first the Iewish sacrifices shadowing and foreshewing the second the sacraments of Christians testifying and confirming that the true sacrifice for sinne was bodily and bloudy Still what trifling is this doth any in the world denie that the true sacrifice for sinne was the bodie bloud and death of the Redeemer Wherefore the proposition must be as I did set it in your behalfe the Iewish sacrifices were shadowes or figures and our sacraments were signes of our whole and absolute redemption by Christ I say of the whole and entire propitiatorie sacrifice or els you shrinke and leaue the question When I lacke one to set propositions in my behalfe I will send to you for helpe till then spare your paines except you might reape more thanks But you must learne to get you plainer termes or at least more plainly to expound them if you will needs be a setter of propositions for what is the WHOLE sacriââ¦ice propitiatorie and what is our WHOLE redemption By the whole sacrifice meane you the whole person of Christ that gaue himselfe for vs or intend you the whole action whereby he sanctified submitted and presented himselfe as a sacrifice of a sweet smell vnto God or by the whole vnderstand you all that in Christ was deuoted and deliuered vnto death for the satisfaction of Gods iustice And so our whole redemption doe you referre it only to remission of sinnes as the Apostle doth when he sayth We haue redemption through Christes bloud euen the forgiuenesse of sinnes or also to deliuerance from the dominion and infection of sinne and to the abolishing of all corruption in soule and bodie which is our whole and absolute redemption When the powers of heauen shall be shaken and the Sonne of man come in a cloud with power and great glorie then lift vp your heads sayth Christ for your redemption draweth neere You are sealed by the holy Spirit vnto the day of redemption sayeth Paul And Dauid God shall redeeme their soules from deceit and violence that is he shall deliuer their soulââ¦s The Saints as the Apoââ¦e speaketh were racked and would admit no redemption to obtaine a better resurrection where by redemption he meaneth deliuerance As Zacharias sayd God hath visited and sent redemption to his people that is saluation or deliuerance from our enemies and from the hands of all that hate vs to serue him in holinesse and righteousnesse all the dayes of our life So that our whole and absolute redemption compriseth all the degrees and steps of our saluation as iustification sanctification and glorification and these though they were merited and obtained for vs by Christes obedience vnto dââ¦ath yet are they performed and accomplished by diuers other meanes therewith concurring and thereon depending as by the grace of his spirit the working of his power and glory of his comming And therefore the words which you haue set in my behalfe are like their authour that is they are
from the furious rage of Satan and malice of wicked men Here are many mights rashly and falsly supposed of Christ but not a mite of Salt or truth in them Is it lawfull for you Sir Defender to dreame what you list of Christs sufferings and when you are required proofe thereof to say It might be so extraordinarily What absurdities and heresies may not thus be maintayned if euery addle braine shall frame to himselfe new Passions and strange Temptations in Christ and all on this ground forsooth it might be so Their eares must exceedingly itche that will leaue the writings of the Euangelists and Apostles and listen to your extraordinarie might be But what might be Might Christ vpon all this spirituall fury and subtilitie of Satan or concurrence and cooperation of the Iewes haue his Faith hope or loue of and in God faile or decrease could he mistrust or doubt that he might perish and neither saue himselfe noâ⦠vs why Role you thus with Roperick Termes and frights of franticke men when you speake of Christs Temptations as if hell or Satan were to strong for the Spirit and grace of God in Christ or could seuer the vnion made with the mightie hand of God of Christs humane nature into one Person with his Diuine It may be your strange fansies doe often put you to such plunges but he that stedfastly beleeueth in the Sonne of God and knoweth the truth and force of his Masters words when ready to goe to his Passion he said to his Disciples d Iohn 16. ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã be bold or consident I haue ouercome the world will neuer doubt such dangers as you dreame of For in the world which Christ ouercame is the Prince thereof comprised euen the diuell whom before Christ pronounced to haue nothing that is no part nor place in him And to me that am assured the diuell could doe nothing against Christ but what Christ himselfe would and that the Sauiour of the world had power enough not onely to resist but also to represse the furââ¦e and subtilitie of Satan with his word or becke saue what him selfe would permit to let the diuell see his violence endured his asââ¦aults repelled his temptations reiected and his whole kingdome despised aud troden vnder foote these Tragicall Termes of yours are but blusterings of a busie Brayne and blastes of an vnstayed Tongue that would say somewhat and can not tell what and therefore hideth his ââ¦isformed fansies vnder the visard of strange and incomprehensible conceites e Defenc. pag. 85. li. 1. Here now we may see how vniustly you conclude that Satan could no other way assault Christ as an Instrument of Gods wrath but onely by executing torments on his Soule euen in such wise as he tormenteth damned Sââ¦ules in hell We see you haue opened your packe of strange wares and wastfull words and otherwise besides your owne liking you haue brought nothing for all this pelââ¦e and Trash that you haue vttered My words that are short but expressing the same which you with many circumductions fetch about to couer the presumption of your cause you much mislike and yet if you weigh them well you shall see they containe the very summe of your deuices To be tempted with suggestions of malediction reiection confusion desperation and damnation so they take no place noâ⦠find no harbour in the hart of man can haue no such incomprehensible sorrowes nor hellish Torments as you talke of The Hart by Faith presently and throughly resisting quencheth all those fierie Darts of Satan as flaxe vnder foote And therefore you must either take from Christ present and perfect resistance by deââ¦reasing his faith and sââ¦aggering his hope or else you can neuer sinck him into such sorrowes as you suppose You giue him f Trea pa. 45. li. 25. a glorious conquest at the last but in the meane while you leauâ⦠him not onely fearing and fainting but euen ouerwhelmed and all conââ¦ounded with these strange temptations and incomprehensible sorrowes which sometimes you say come from g Ibid li. 24. the immediate hand of God and sometimes from the diuels h Defenc pag. 15. ââ¦i ââ¦8 as Gods Instruments working the very effects of Gods wrath vpon him And these paines you say were not onely as sharpe as any are in hell but euen the same which the damned doe suffer Now wherein haue I wronged you except with too much sparing you What in saying you defend that Satan executed Torments on Christs Soule such as he doth on the demned Your words import no lesse The diuels you say were Gods Instruments to work on Christ the very effects of his wrath Now what are the effects of Gods wrath h Defenc pag. 15. ââ¦i ââ¦8 equall to all the paines of hell and i Pag. 12. li. ââ¦0 the same which are in ââ¦ell but the torments of the damned Soules in hell But you would haue Christ as well inwardly tempted as Tormented by the diuell and where you defend both I reported but one Pardon me that wrong I would haue hid your folly but you will not suffer me Howbeit I refuted the one and left the other as worthie none other answere then that where in the Scriptures the diuels confesse Christs word and presence did torment them you without Scripture haue found the diuels tormented Christ. k Defenc. pag. 85. li. 4. That can be say you no other way then by Satans verie possââ¦ssing of those soules Which grosse and infernall speculations of yours for trueths you can not make them I vtterly leaue to your owne discussing Are your fansies become so fine that what the Scriptures teach of Satans possessing mens soules or bodies must be grosse and your inuentions without wit or reason must be spruice What sayd I in any of these things which the plaine words or maine grounds of the Scripture do not confirme That the diuell can not worke but where he is Will you giue him more then an almighty power to worke where he is not or will you affoord him an omnipresence equall with God that he may be euery where to the end he may worke euery where as God doth Satan may torment the soule you will say and not possesse it The diuels that could not worke on swine but they must first l Matth. 8. enter them before they could make them runne headlong into the sea can they worke in men before they enter and possesse them The Cananite that intreated Christ to haue m Matth. 15. mercie on her daughter who was m Matth. 15. miserably vexed with a diuell receiued at length this answer n Mark â⦠For this saying goe thy way ââ¦he diuell is gone out of thy daughter The father that brought his lunaticke sonne to Christ confessed o Mark 9. he had a dââ¦mbe spirit which did teare him and cast him often into the fire and into the water to destroy him and Christ confirmeth his words in