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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76085	The second part of that book call'd Independency not Gods ordinance: or the post-script, discovering the uncharitable dealing of the Independents towards their Christian brethren, with the jugglings of many of their pastors and ministers, to the misleading of the poor people to the detriment of their own souls, and the hurt both of church and state, with the danger of novelties in religion; proving that Independency, is one of the most dangerous sects, that ever appeared in the world, since mortality inhabited the earth. In the which also there is a satisfactory answer given to the principall cavils of him that writ that railing pamphlet, stil'd The falshood of Mr Will. Prynnes Triumphing in the antiquity of popish princes and parliaments. With Doctor Bastvvicks just defence against some calumnies in way of preface. / By John Bastvvick, Dr in Physick.; Independency not Gods ordinance. Part 2	Bastwick, John, 1593-1654.	1645 (1645)	Wing B1069; Thomason E287_9; ESTC R200091	93,218	111

vers 18. he saith That the sound of the Gospell went into all the earth and their words meaning of the Apostles unto the end of the world And in the 15. chapter and vers 18 19. he affirmeth That Christ so wrought by him as he made the Gentiles obedient by word deed through mighty signes wonders by the prower of the Spirit of God so that from Jerusalem and round about all Illericum he had fully Preached the Gospell and that he had so strived to Preach the Gospel not where Christ was named least he should build upon another mans foundation And in his 1. Epistle to the Thessalonians vers 8. He teacheth That from them the Word of the Lord sounded not onely in Macedonia and Achaia but also in every place saith he your faith to God-ward is spread abroad so that we need not to speak any thing Here we see whol Cities and Countries were converted and became Christians And in the Acts of the Apostles there is frequent mention of whole Cities and Countries converted by the miracles and Preaching of the Apostles who the people thought of and looked upon as gods come down from heaven so that all Asia in a short time was converted by the Apostles Ministery for the people seeing the Apostles raise the dead and cure all diseases and that by their very shaddows and by touching but the garments and handcarchiefs or any thing that came from the sick and observing that they were by and by restored unto their former health and beholding their godly life and holy conversation and hearing them preach nothing but those things that tended to make them eternally happy they came in in mighty multitudes through Cities and whole Countries to beleeve the Gospell and were made Christians dayly so that by some one of their miracles they converted more then could meet well in any one Congregation to partake in all acts of worship and to edification and there was still dayly increase upon increase of Christians through both Cities and Countries as both the Scriptures and all the Ecclesiasticall histories relate so that all reason dictates unto any intelligible man that in a short time there must of necessity in every City and through the severall Countries be many Congregations and Assemblies and many Presbytors ordained over them for the ruling and governing and dayly instructing of them and for the building of them all up in the holy faith for all these the Scripture speakes of were such as were really converted or at least made profession of the saith as Simon Magus and were therefore admitted into the bosome of the Church and into the fellowship of the Saints And all good reason will teach men that the Apostles and those Primative Ministers had a more excellent faculty of converting men then our Independent Pastors teachers by whose Ministry yet I never heard of any that were converted for their Congregations al of them consist of such as were converted to their hands but if a few of them without miracles have been so powerfull through City and Country to gather so many congregations and severall Churches here in London and through all the Cities and Towns where they have been preaching their Novelties shall we be so blockish and stupid to think that all the Apostles together and so many other famous Ministers as were for many years alwayes resident in Jerusalem they could all convert no more Christians then could meet in one place or congregation and that at Ephesus and in the other Cities and Countries where the Scripture relateth that there was such infinite multitudes dayly converted and additions of new beleevers upon new beleevers added to the Church that they might ever meet in one Congregation and in one Assembly to communicate in all the Ordinances no reason will perswade this to any man that hath not promised to himself to beleeve nothing but what he seeth with his own eyes But that I may again return to the Church in Jerusalem the pattern of all Churches for government I affirm that in that great and mighty city there were more beleevers than could meet in any one or a few places to communicate in all acts of worship and that there were many Congregations of Christians there in the Apostles times and many years after And besides the many reasons I have in the foregoing Treatise specified for a further demonstration of the truth of that Assertion I shall here adde a few more And amongst other that out of Paul in the first of the Galathians which I onely touched in the foregoing Tractate where he signifieth to the Galathians that he received not the Gospell from the Apostles but from Jesus Christ himself that they might the more cheerfully imbrace it and give credit unto it For saith he I preached the Gospell in Arabia to the heathens before I saw the Apostles and had continued my Ministery three years before I went up to Ierusalem to them Indeed after three years saith he I went up to Ierusalem to see Peter and aboade with him fifteen dayes but other of the Apostles saw I none save Iames the Lords brother not that they were absent and therefore I received not the Gospell from them but from Christ himself In the which words we have not onely a singular Argument to confirm the Preaching and writing of the Apostle Paul to be the Word of God against the Papists but we have also an excellent reason against the new opinion of the Independents to prove many congregations in the Church of Ierusalem for Paul was a diligent frequenter of the Synagogues and Assemblies of the Jews and Christians wheresoever he came as it is often specified in the Scripture where he Preached the Word and Gospell unto the people and it is also cleer and evident by the same Scripture as in the Acts of the Apostles and in the Epistle of Saint Iames and many other places that Synagogue and Church were Sunonymaes and are often taken one for another as Bishops and Presbyter are for the ordinary Ministers and Preachers of the Word Now by the very light of reason all men that have not resined their understanding will gather That if there had been but one meeting place or one congregation of Believers in the Church of Jerusalem that Paul remaining there fifteen dayes in all that times he would have frequented the Assembly of Believers at lest if he had not preached unto them who was so diligent both in hearing and in preaching in al other places were he came and if there had then been but one meeting-place in Jerusalem and but one congregation without doubt the Apostles would daily have been at their imployments which were to pray with the people and preach unto them for they never were idle nor deserted not their charge Now when they were alwayes imployed in their severall ministeries it is manifest that there were severall assemblies or congregations of Believers in Jerusalem that hindred the

listen after it The same may be said of all the former Christians and Martyrs in Ages past and of all our glorious Martyrs here in England some of which were haled before King Henry the eighth and others in Queen Maries dayes before all the Tribunals before the Judges and Rulers of the Land by which means as they gave evidence unto the truth and sealed it with their blood so it was one of the principall causes of first propagating the Protestant Religion through the Kingdome and of afterwards establishing of it here whereas if they had never been questioned for their consciences by all likelyhood it would only have remained in some corners of the Kingdome and in some private Families and never have been publickly authorized For the confirmation of all I have now said the places above cited and Christs own words might sufficiently evince But it will not be amisse to hear Pauls testimony concerning this point whose witnesse I conceive is more to be credited then all the Independents put together much lesse then this Bablers He in 2 Tim. chap. 2. vers 9. speaking by the Spirit of God concerning persecution saith Wherein I suffer trouble saith he as an evill doer unto bands but the Word of God is not bound and in 2 Tim. chap. 4. vers 7. The Lord stood with mee and strengthned mee that by mee the preaching might be fully known that all the Gentiles might heare c. Out of the which words we may observe two things First that the Apostle suffered for his conscience not for evill doing Secondly that his suffering notwithstanding hindred not the preaching of the Gospell to all Nations for he himself affirmeth the contrary saying That by his bonds the Word of God was not bound and by this his questioning and persecution the preaching of the Gospel was made fully knowne that all the Gentiles might hear c. I refer it therefore to the judgement of any learned and intelligible man whether we ought rather to believe the Spirit of God speaking in Paul or this Chatter of uncircumcised ears and lips And Paul in Acts 20.22 23. saith And now behold I go bound in the Spirit unto Jerusalem not knwing the things that shall befall me there save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every City saying that bonds and afflictions abide me The same also was foretold unto him by Agabus in Chap. 21. vers 11. Yet Pauls bonds neither in Jerusalem nor in any other City and his being questioned for matters of conscience about the Resurrection before Foelix King Agrippa and Festus hindred not the propagation of the Gospell to all Nations as this Jangler would infer for Paul himself testifying the contrary in his Epistle to the Philippians chap. 1. vers 12 13. But I would ye should understand Brethren saith the Apostle that the things that hapned unto me speaking there of persecution have fallen out rather to the furtherance of the Gospell so that my bonds for Christ are manifest in Caesars Court and in all other places By this testimony also of Paul it is evident that the persecution for cause of conscience rather furthereth the preaching of the Gospell to all Nations then hindreth it as is yet more manifest through the whole story of the Acts as for one instance chap. 8. vers 4. where it is said That they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the Word And all Ecclesiasticall histories testifie the same so that by this that I have now said and many more evidences that might be produced it is clear that persecution for cause of conscience imposes not an impossibility that by it the Gospel should be preached to all Nations For persecution is the Bellowes of the Gospell driving every spark of truth into a flame So that all judicious men may see the vanity and invalidity of this Cavillers first assertion And this shall suffice to have been spoken of that Now I come to prove my second conclusion viz. That persecution for cause of conscience hindreth not the growth of grace and knowledge in the Saints yea it is so far from hindring Christians from growing in knowledge and from one measure and degree of faith unto another as this fond Babler in his second assertion would inferre as it every way improves their graces and knowledge as we may see in those in Heb. 11. concerning some of which the Lord giveth this testimony vers 34 35 c. Who through faith quenched the violence of the fire escaped the edge of the sword out of weaknesse were made strong waxed valiant in fight turned to flight the armies of the Aliens And others were tortered not accepting deliverance that they might obtaine a better resurrection And others had triall of cruell mockings scourgings yea moreover of bonds and imprisonment They were stoned they were sawne asunder were tempted were slaine with the sword they wandred about in Sheepskins and Goatskins being destitute afflicted tormented of whom the world was not worthie they wandred in Deserts and in Mountains and in Dens and Caves of the Earth and all these having obtained a good report through faith received not the promise c. All these thrived rather by their afflictions and persecutions and increased in grace and out of weaknesse were made strong if we may believe the Scripture The same is also affirmed concerning afflictions persecution for conscience sake in Rom. 8. where Paul saith Who shall separate us from the love of Christ Shall tribulation or distresse or persecution or famine or nakednesse or perill or sword as it is written for thy sake we are killed all the day long we are accounted as sheep to the slaughter nay in all these things we are more then conquerours through him that loved us By this witnesse of the Apostle persecution which has been the lot of the Saints all the day long that is to say in all ages is so far from hindring the increase of grace and the degrees of faith that it makes them more then conquerours through him that loved us And Peter writing to his counntrey men that by persecution were scattered and dispersed through Pontus Galatia Cappadocia Asia and Bithinia affirmeth the same who in chap. 1. vers 5 6 7 c. saith That they were kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time wherein meaning persecution ye greatly rejoyce saith he though for a season if need be ye are in heavinesse through many temptations that the triall of your faith being much more precious then that of gold that perisheth though it be tried with fire might be found unto praise and honour and glorie at the appearing of Jesus Christ who having not seen ye love in whom though now ye see him not yet believing ye rejoyce with joy unspeakable and full of glorie receiving the end of your hope even the salvation of your soules And in chap. 3. vers 14 15. But if ye suffer

them lyes resist the Spirit of God for the Lord has againe and againe commanded all his people to shun such men as in Tim. 1. chap. 6. vers 5. From such saith Saint Paul to Timothy and in him to all Ministers and people in all ages to the end of the world withdraw thy selfe Now if an Evangelist so learned a man so well grounded a preacher as Timothy was to withdraw himselfo from all such as taught otherwise than Paul Christ himself the other Apostles had taught how much more now ought all Christians that come so far short and are so inferiour to Timothy for all indowments and graces of knowledge to beware and take heed of all such as bring in their new-born truths their new-Lights and all their new wayes when especially we are commanded to enquire for the old and good way which will indeed bring rest unto our souls Jer. 6. And to omit innumerable places to this purpose that of Saint Iohn in his second Epistle to the Elect Lady should ever be in our memory where Saint Iohn in expresse words forbids that Lady and her family and in them all other Christians To receive any that bring not the doctrine of Iesus Christ into their houses or bid them God-speed and gives a reason of this his prohibition For saith he he that bids him God-speed is partaker of his evill deeds Now all these new doctrines are not the doctrines of Jesus Christ and therefore whosoever bringeth them ought not to be received into our families nor their doctrines into our hearts no more then stolen goods into our houses and closets for God hath both forbid it and set down the danger that will ensue upon it for by that means we make our selves equally guilty and partakers with them in their evill and therefore all such as shall still notwithstanding whatsoever God hath spake unto us by his holy Prophets and Apostles follow those new teachers and those new truths by their so doing in conclusion they will be found fighters against God and partake with them in all those punishments the Lord hath threatned against all such as will be led about with every wind of Doctrine which will be the ruin of themselves and others and if people will be disobedient and obstinately go on to make Schisms and rents slighting Gods threats and menaces and cast his word behind their backs then it belongeth unto all Magistrates Ministers Fathers and Masters of Families that are Christians for I speake not of such as are without the pale of the Church seeing what already these new Sects have with all their Art and cunning invented contrived and with unwearied paines and ungodly policy brought forth into the world that the Magistrates are counted intollerable to the people wives are taken from the bosomes of their husbands or so alienated from them as they repute the● a burthen unto them the Husbands from the Wife Children from their Parents and Patents from their children and the Servants from their Masters and Mistresses Friends from Friends the Ministers from the people and the flocks from their Pastors and that all the lawes of God and Nature by these means are violated I say in all these regards it is high time if they will prevent those evils that are comming upon the Land by these fractions and divisions now to quit themselves like men not caring for all the reviling languages of Seducers who yet never spake well of any but of their own party for it is against the nature of Sectaries to give any a good word but their own complices and therefore it concernes them all to goe about the work as men of courage and in the fear of God And truly if men think it as it is indeed an unsufferable thing to tolerate those Men-stealers who they call Spirits or a new generation of Fayries to seduce and carry away their children and servants then much more it is an unsufferable thing to tolerate those that steale away not only the bodies of men and children from Magistrates Ministers Parents Masters and Mistresses Friends c. but their very hearts and affections and are no better in so doing then a company of spirituall Plunderers and are to be looked on as so many enemies of the Church and kingdome Neither is there any breach of charity in speaking truth with love and an unfained desire of their reformation for if they be not reformed nor their New-lights extinguished and put out they will in short time dim and darken the truth it selfe and provoke the Lord to give us all over to error because we imbraced not the truth in the love of it 2 Thess 2. But I must confesse I look upon many of the Independent Ministers as the most dangerous Sect that ever yet the world produced in respect of the consequences of their doctrines and the sad effects they have brought forth already wheresoever they have spread it For they carry themselves more cunningly then any other Schismaticks or Hereticks that ever yet appeared since mortality inhabited the World For all other Sectaries tenents are recorded in all the severall Councels and in the Monuments of the ancient Writers so that every man knowes their opinions and doctrines but what these men hold besides their whimsey of Independency and the manner of their gathering of Churches wherein they doe not all agree neither no man knoweth nor never shall know for they intend to set up many other New-lights but yet with a reserve never to be constant to any thing what they either say or write for this I have received from the mouthes of their Disciples and followers That if that which seemeth a truth to them to day do to morrow appear otherwise by some new light were it any Article of the faith and they be convinced by that light that they were in an error before they are to relinquish their former tenent whatsoever it were and to follow that new light that God hath appeared to them in And this doctrine is taught by all the Independents I ever saw or heard of Yea they count it a great honour unto them to be thus uncertaine in their opinions as we may see in a rayling and rediculous Pamphlet not only against Mr. Prynne but against the Parliament lately set out by an Independent call'd The falshood of M. William Prynnes Truth Triumphing where pag. 16. Sect. 2. in these words You accuse the Independents saith he as believing most things with a reserve according to their present light with a liberty of changing as new-lights shall be discovered unto them but did ever man so overshoot himselfe saith he certainly this is so high a character of the Independents compleatest posture ensuing or growing stature in the Schoole of Christ as could be applyed unto them wherein they glory not a little and place it as the only ground work and foundation without which they cannot grow in grace from one degree of faith to another untill

Reformation thus long Ye see saith he that a little handfull of Independent Ministers in the Synod have given three Kingdomes imployment these two yeares so that they can do nothing and boasted of this wicked act as a matter of vantation and triumph So that if men well consider the whole negotiation of the Independents in the Reverend Assembly it is to hinder the work of reformation then the which there cannot be a more diabolicall designe And then they spread it abroad among the people that they have not liberty to speak when it is most notorious that one of them speaks more than half a dozen of the other Ministers And they have published it also all over the Town that the Presbyterians durst not let their reasons be set out in Print to the view of the world for they knew very well that as they were unanswerable so that all the people would forthwith have been of their judgement and by this their babble it is incredible how they have strengthned their Faction and gained disciples for their followers beleeve all they say as Gospell And truely if there were nothing but these their under-hand dealings and malicious practises and rejoycing at evill it were enough to make all men abhor their wayes but the truth is they have no certainty in any thing they beleeve to day and by their practises they contradict all their doctrine and tenents And that all men may be yet a little better acquainted with the Independent Ministers juglings I thought good to insert here these sixteen Observations sent me by a learned and godly Gentleman who is very well verst in all their doctrines and manners They are these 1. THey hold themselves the principall Labourers and Pillers of faith when as they professe that their present judgements shall not binde themselves for the future but that they beleeve all things with a reserve to alter their thoughts faith and judgements upon new or better Light 2. They pleade for liberty of conscience yet will impose a Covenant upon every mans conscience they admit into their congregations else exclude him 3. They plead against toleration of any corrupt members c. in a Church and yet plead for a toleration of all Religions in a State under the notion of liberty of Conscience 4. They plead against the Magistrates Coarsive power in matters of Religion and yet banish men in New England and expell all out of their Congregations that are not of their way 5. They pleade against Synods and yet they professe themselves members of the present Synod 6. They speak against Parochiall Congregations as against the Kingdome and Law of Christ and yet some of them accept of such and yet will neither Baptize nor administer the Lords Supper to their Parishoners though they take their tithes 7. They write against Tithes as Jewish Popish c. yet some of them take them and sue for them as greedily as any others 8. They condemne all set formes of Prayer or Preaching and yet themselves plead for a set forme of Church-Government Jure Divino in all particular circumstances whatsoever 9. They condemn non-residency and pluralities yet many of them have divers Livings and Lectures of good value and yet are resident and keep hospitality at none of them 10. They call some Presbyterians Lord Bishops because they ride now then on horse-back by reason of age or infirmity to the Assembly yet many of them ride thither in Coaches and some of them can ride 6. or 7. miles on the Lords day in a Coach and 4. horses to Preach an afternoon Sermon which Christ and his Apostles never did and no Presbyterian practiseth 11. They condemn Presbyterians of harsh language and bitternesse in their writings against them yet none are so desperately Libellous Satyricall and scandalous in their writings as many of them against Presbyterians 12. They professe nothing but truth and yet many of their writings savour with malicious mis-informations scandals forgeries untruths invented by themselves to defame their innocent Christian brethren 13. They pretend themselves the onely propugners of the Parliament Priviledges and Jurisdiction yet none more oppugned them in the hight of opposition as they 14. They professe themselves more estranged from and mortified to the world yet none more covetous oppressive ambitious of honours preferments and hunting after all manner of gainfull Offices and imployments as they nor none more unfaithfull unconscionable in them then some of them 15. They pretend the Scripture to be the onely rule of their way and Discipline and yet can produce no one Text or Example of Scripture for any thing their Church warrants or they hold wherein they differ from the Presbyterians 16. They dare not undertake to binde themselves for the future by any thing they held or concluded touching Church government much losse any of their party therefore it is vaine to dispute with or receive any thing from them in matter of government or discipline who will neither be bound by their own mother-judgements or practice but hold and practise all things only duranti bene placito Out of all the which as out of my former discourse it is easie for any man to gather that of all the Seducers that have yet appeared in the world these are most to be taken heed of whatsoever seeming holinesse they may make shew of to the people But that I may now draw to a conclusion of this my Postscript leaving the narration of many other passages of theirs till their Answer comes out which their followers say is ready for the Presse let me say this to all such as desire the knowledge of the truth in sincerity and that love peace that all men may see how fair we offer the Independents and all such as are affected to their novelties whereas the Independent Ministers have perswaded the people that their Arguments by which they have laboured to prove That in the Church of Jerusalem there were no more Believers then could all meet in one congregation to partake in all acts of worship were unanswerable and have affirmed withall that if it could be made evident or proved unto them That there were more Christians in the Church of Jerusalem then could all meet in one Congregation that then they would relinquish their opinion of Independency I and Mr. William Prynne Esquire my Brother in affliction who the Independents have causelesly maligned and reproached not to take the work out of any learned and godly Ministers hands who we honour for their singular erudition and worth and far prefer before our selves for all sufficiency and accomplished learning shall with all humility undertake to maintaine and make good these ensuing Propositions The first That there were more particular Assemblies and Congregations of Believers in the Church of Jerusalem then one The second That all those severall Congregations made but one Church The third That those severall congregations were all under one Presbyterie The fourth That the government of the Church of Jerusalem is to be a patterne of government to all succeeding ages The fifth That the gathering of Churches after the Independent way together with their Church-covenant and all other their proceedings wherein they differ from the Presbyterians hath neither precept nor president in the whole Word of God All these positions we undertake to make good against all the Independents in the Kingdome not out of any contention for victory but truth and that in the spirit of love and not in our own strength but and in the Name and in the Power of the King eternall immortall the mighty Potentate the Lord of Hosts And if we shall not by the grace of God and his blessed assistance be able to make good what we undertake we shall not refuse to undergoe the greatest censure for this our temerity But if we make good our tenents and evince and prove their Independency and the manner of the gathering of their Churches to be but their own inventions and meer novelties all the persecution that we shall then wish may be exercised against our Brethren for the great distractions and breaches they have made among us is this that we shall desire all the godly people of the City to be humble petitioners with us unto the great Councell of the Kingdome that as they lately made a pious and a godly Ordinance for the silencing of all such as undertook the ministery without sufficiency of abilities and a lawfull call so they would now silence all these novelties and command the Independent Ministers hereafter to preach the Gospell purely and sincerely to the people without those mixtures of their own traditions annexed to it by which they shall bring a great deale of glory to God honour to themselves and procure if not peace to the whole Kingdome yet love amity and unanimity amongst the people which ought to be the prayer of all those that wish the peace of Zion and the salvation of their Brethren and the welfare of the Nation My request to the Independents in behalfe of the Expectants and Seekers LIghts Lights Gentlemen-INDEPENDENTS hang out your Lights your New-lights there hang out your Newborn-lights there That the poore Seekers may finde a Church amongst you Imprimatur Ja. Cranford FINIS