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A57767 A reply to a scandalous pamphlet entituled A declaration against judicial astrology written by the quondam (most ignorant and weak) practitioner Mr. John Raunce. Wherein he is both stript of all his weak arguments, and confuted as altogether ignorant of the art. By William Ramsey gent qui est artium candidissimus amator. Ramesey, William, 1627-1675 or 6. 1650 (1650) Wing R210; ESTC R219039 10,643 16

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proofs either by reason and Arguments of his own or other bodies for what he writs against and not to content himself with a plain dico without either argument proof or reason In short I say thus much viz. c. and again I say the Rules and Precepts of Astrology c. But I say it is no matter what you say or can say or whether you say any thing or nothing except it be to more purpose You say it is the fictions and dotages of mans brain and I say your brains are doted and besotted therefore let me have better reason then one Doctors opinion I say more how is the Art proved to be the fictions of mans brain a whit the more for your saying so Where do you make it appear to be so Or that their rules have no foundation in nature we see that you have no foundation nor natural reason to condemn it for we see nothing but your own words against it Then I say that you might even as well have said nothing and then you might have been still thought wise for stultus tacendo dicetur sapiens and then you might also have gone for a Practitioner but now you have lost your credit both in the one and the other for none but stulti will condemn a thing they understand not nor can prove to be so neither can any man practise any Art but what he is vers'd in but this cavil of Mr. Raunce his is I conceive since his doting brains cannot comprehend the true ground and reasons of the Art to learn them by writing against them and so to receive instructions from the pen of the replyer But I know no reason any one should do him that favour since he is so openly malicious nor is any one bound to prove the grounds thereof except he could disprove them or know what they are which since he is ignorant of is sufficient to prove his cavil inconsistent either with reason or truth His words are And what are your houses which are in number 12 what are they and how cometh it to pass they signify thus and thus and what are those many significations that you give them are they any thing else then very Fables and fictions of an old Idolaters brain If it be not so let the Astrologers now stand up and prove their Art Stand up babes and sucklings and answer Mr. Raunce which asketh if this be not so and so and never proveth it so Mr. Raunce it had been your part in writing against this Art to have given your reasons and proofs not your conceptions which I know none are bound to answer and then you had done Practitioner-like and might perhaps have received an answer Now Mr. Raunce cometh to write of the planetary Angels and as he saith to tell you what they are The words of your Authors upon this matter are to this purpose viz. That from the beginning of the world there were 7 sperits appointed as rulers to the 7 Planets and every one of these spirits ruleth the world a certain time c. all which is true and I would very fain Mr. Raunce could in the least disprove it all that he can say is this Now these Planetary Angels what are they are they any other Angels or spirits then those very wicked spirits which are so often and most commonly the chief agents for the imaginations in their several operations and conjurations as it is well known unto him that hath been a Professor of Astrology and Student in the Magick Art I would very fain know how by these words Mr. Raunce proves or shews what the Planetary Angels are as he said he would he tells us only what the Practitioners in Astrology and the Students in the Magick Art know them to be he tells us nothing of his own knowledge who knows as little in this as in all his fore-going cavelling arguments but it seems it is his way of arguing to ask I pray what is this and that is it not so and so and is it not known or it is known by such and such to be thus thus never proving any thing yet condemning every thing meerly because he is ignorant thereof For otherwise certainly in his Arguments especially when it is his to prove and condemn he would shew all his skill and strongest reasons if he have any but as no body can answer till somewhat be propounded so neither can nor will I prove what Mr. Raunce knows not nor can disalow of Now seeing it is thus then saith Mr. Raunce as concluding upon no grounds of seasons neither any sufficient proofs we shall find Astrology that is thought by many to depend upon the Stars to have its being from no other thing nor ground then conjuration hath If this be Mr. Raunce his reason to conclude an argument without reason I must conclude it is like himself And to argue with one void of reason is to render himself no whit better then senceless or mad but as I said befo●e he had done very well to have proved his cavils that so he might have had an answer and not to content himself with the bare saying this is so and so without proof which is not the part of a Scholar and such an one as is to prove an argument yet Mr. Raunce as great an enemy as he is to Astrology in his 4. page towards the latter end acknowledges the Predictions of Astrologers to be true yet out of a pernicious envy would fain buze the vulgar with a conceit that he neither doth nor can prove that the Devil brings it to pass O malicious Mr. Raunce that meerly because he is ignorant of Astrology shall without any proof or argument condemn Astrology to be Diabolical which opinion of his is sufficiently answered above so that in this place needs no more but to remember the reader that he take notice of the envy and malice of the most learned Practitioner Mr. Raunce And thus have you all his cavils set down to the full and answered For the conclusion of Mr. Raunce his discourse he makes a great profession of zeal and holiness admonishing all good Christians not to medle or have to do with Astrology because he cannot comprehend it and tells them that he was raised up to gain-say and withstand that wicked Art but not to prove it so I believe he is one of Mr Sedgwicks tribe and many others 〈◊〉 might name but for brevity sake which was also raised up to forthtell the day of judgement and to preach false Doctrine in sheeps clothing crac'd-brain people but I believe Master Raunces distemper came meerly by too much practizing Astrology when he was a Practitioner in the same And therefore like the Fox who because he could not attain to the full enjoyment of the sweet Grapes he so earnestly longed after went away and concluded they were not ripe nor perfect so Mr. Raunce because he could not dive into the grounds and reasons of the Art because it was too high for his capacity concluds it to be Diabolical and illegal c. he saith he knows that some will as soon as his learned Declaration appears shew themselves of what spirit they are for saith he they will be amazed and indeed well they may to see his ignorance and envy but especially of him being a Practitioner and yet ignorant of what he saith he sometime practiced But Mr. Raunce let me advise you to practice hence forward silence and Admiration of what you understand not and make not your self rediculous enviously to cavil and raile without either proof or reason against any Art or thing you know not And so I leave you to be reformed for I am heartily sorry to see your ignorance and weakness though you are unknown to me for ignorance is the root of all evil nay and enemy to all Arts and Sciences which is very unseemly in any man that will profess himself to be any degree above a Carter much more in a Practitioner in one of the most liberal Sciences at this time revealed to mortals viz. Astrology Vale. Will. Ramsey Die ♂ 20. Augustii 1650. Vesperi POSTSCRIPT I Would give Mr. Raunce here some Instructions in the Art and prooss to prove the mystery thereof to surpass his apprehension as in some Patet already as also to shew the verity and sufficiency of the Art for the better satisfaction of the curious reader as also of Mr. Raunce but that I leave it to the Practitioners in the art whom it far more concerns and belongs to yet since for my recreation I have had a little insight therein I could not for the well-wishes I owe to both the Art and Artists but write what I here commit to the publick view yet I make no question but they will take him in hand and put him hence forward to perpetual silence for in all his scandalous Pamphlet he proves nothing only runs on with an inveterate malicious railing speech grounded meerly on his own shallow apprehension and conceit wherefore I leave it to their consideration to judge it their part or no to justifie their Art not but that I would do it but it would be better and more seemly for them that are Practitioners therein since he openly challengeth them thereunto FINIS
on when as the Scripture in plain tearms tells us they are for days and times and years Gen. 1.14 but I would fain he would tell me why the immediate providence of God is not shown to alter from the course of the Moon the ebbing and flowing of the Sea nay the Thames here in England that every Waterman can tell him the just time by the motion of the Moon for it may be he never saw the Sea I could mention and instance many more effects of the Planets but perhaps they will seem Riddles to him and Paradoxes and so it may be will deny them because he is ignorant of them as he doth the whole Art but every common Water-man will convince him of this if he have not brains either to conceive or believe it but to come closer home to the purpose The influence of the Stars on mans body is so far from denying the providence of God that it clearly proveth it to be the more manifest for God worketh not immediatly neither doth he cause rain or snow or frost or faire weather immediatly but hath left the cause of all these to their influence according to the several aspects and positions of the Planets ordaining it so from the beginning neither doth he work any new work but what ever happeneth was pre-ordained to come to pass in its due time so that he doth now no work but sits and upholdeth all by his Omnipotent Omniscient wisdom and power so that it adds to his glory that when he made those heavenly Bodys the Planets to rule all sublunary things and times that he fore-knew the events dispositions of men alterations of Kingdoms Commotions Plenties Famines Plagues Healths Sicknesses Wars Peace and what not by their effects Neither let this seem strange to Mr. John Raunce who is so well acquainted with the Scriptures that he brings proof against what he understands not for Christ saith Come ye blessed of my Father inherit the Kingdom prepared for you before the beginning of the world Matt. 25.34 and Paul to the Ephesians chap. 1. v. 4. proves us to be predestinated and chosen before the beginning of the world so that it is cleared that what ever shall happen from the beginning of the world and before to the end was pre-ordained to happen so that if a man by the position of the Planets at his birth be ordained to be according to natural causes a theef a murtherer or the like what can Mr. Raunce say that will become of that man by this immediate providence of God but destruction if God doth not mercifully shew his goodness towards him this doth no wise certainly derogate from the providence of God who hath ordained such and such accidents to happen to every man from the beginning of his life to the end He comes then with his inveterate malicious railings which becomes an Oyster-wench far better then a Schollar who ought to prove rather their arguments by reason and sence then envious names without proofs or indeed reason at all for saith he And now for horary questions what are they are they any thing less then satanical delusions as is the vest of that wicked Art Certainly there is no judicial impartial eye but will rather think him to be inclining to diabolical practices then Astrologers and also so judge him to belye so publick an apparent truth as Astrology is as before I shut up my full discourse I shall satisfy him it is to call it Diabolical and no wise prove it so which is as false as all his frivolous arguments against it and lyers are Diabolical I am confident since the Devil is their Father and the more Diabolical and apparently he shews himself to be the Child and Instrument of the Devil by his envy to rail in such gross tearms against truth which his Father the Devil hath ever in all ages strived to eclips by such ignorant instruments and Children of his as John Raunce and let him not be angry if I should here also call him dunce since he tells me in his Title-page he was sometimes a practitioner of the Art and is yet so ignorant as to call it Diabolicall but indeed his weak shallow brains could no wise apprehend ●or attain to the knowledge of it a learned man or a wise man would rather have admired what he could not understand then presently to raile against it and not able to prove it so and this serves very fitly to prove him really a dunce or at least a fool to condemn what he understands not in the least manner for how can he prove this Art Diabolicall which depends only on the true and perfect knowledge of the Starres that hath no affinity I am confident he will say himself with his Father the Devil and their influences which are but natural things And by knowing natural and earthly things Paul saith we shall know heavenly things the better much more then by knowing the Stars which are above us when the knowledge of what is beneath us made Aristottle that some time attributed all to nature at last confess there must needs be a Deity and a God-head and Moses saith the Stars are signes and David The Heavens declare the glory of God Certainly then no wise Diabolical yet this impudent ignorant envious dunce who thinks his own words he is so self-conceited a fool is sufficient to condemn an Art and such an one as that his shallow Cox-comb can no wise obtain which is the ground of his envy doth not stick to contradict him that tells us truly what the Heavens declare and what the Stars signifie without any proof but his own word which is as vain and empty as his brain and too light by many ounces to prove his Argument yet wants light to make a judicious impartial eye see that dark ignorance whereof he dreams and with it the Scripture though he saith shew me in what place of the Scripture the Art of Astrology is upheld or justified when it will puzle all his learned brains to shew me any one place though he saith there are many and sets some down which I shall make clear to him do no wise serve for his purpose that doth really condemn or disallow of it but he must know that the divine word was written wholly for our instruction to salvation not to decide the legallity or illegality of Astrology or other Arts yet what is above said is enough to any gallant spirit of the lawfulness of his study and insight therein since they declare the glory of his Creator I know not how then learned M. Raunce will prove it either Diabolical or illegal or contrary to the Scripture since it tends to so good an end that the knowledge thereof is the declaring and manifesting the glory and greatness of the omnipotent Creator of both us and them But to come to his proofs of Scripture he imagins condemns Astrology His first is Deut. 18. his second Esay 47. his third Dan.