to be consecrated unto the Lord in holinesse as well as the spirit and therefore saith the Apostle in the last verse of that Chapter Glorifie God with your bodies and with your spirits which are Gods This body must be kept clean for the Lord not defiled with fornication flie fornication every sin that a man doth is without the body but he who committeth fornication sins against his own body intimating that this sin leaves a greater defilement upon the body than other sins so that by body there cannot be meant the Church of God which are all the body of Christ and so that place is wrested by thee to the proving of the spotlesse perfection of every Member of Christ and yet in the Lord I acknowledge every Member is compleat righteous holy but look upon the Member it self there we finde it lyable to all manner of infirmities yea to sin too onely the Lord Christ the righteous one the root he is free from all sin And therefore Christ teacheth us to pray for forgivenesse of sin This I know will be looked upon as a low thing and yet it is a truth of God and should teach us all to hunger continually after more of the righteousnesse of sanctification and after a plainer manifestation too of the righteousnesse of Christ in our justification Thou sayest Repl. I am ghessing what the baptisme unto Moses in the Cloud and in the Sea should be and thou sayest I tell thee of Metaphorical that word thou deniest and tellest me my shifts are seen and my darknesse found Answ Did ever wretch in the world so plainly confute his words in his constant practice as thou doest who dreamest of persecution and yet hast nothing in all thy Paper appearing but vanity pride and folly Surely the spirit said not in vain A wise man feareth and departeth from evil but the fool rageth and is confident And the heart of the righteous studieth to answer but the mouth of the wicked poureth forth evil things And there is that maketh himself pure yet his heart is not cleansed from his filthinesse Look upon all these things in thy self But to return to thy reply wherein instead of answering something thou talkest of ghessing and carpest at Metaphorical But didst thou never read in Scripture a thing like this Look Gal. 4. 24. which things saith the Apostle are an Allegory The difference between these two it may be thy learning may ghesse for thou tellest the people thou art a Scholar and hast been a Priest and yet never sawest a Metaphor in Scripture But to go on Thou tellest me Repl. I darken counsel by words without knowledge Answ Whether this be thy practice or mine let all men judge who sometimes turnest all the Scriptures into an Allegory and deniest the truth of the Letter as in the Crosse of Christ the resurrection and the like and yet sometimes there must be nothing but Letter when thou seest thy self alive in the Allegory as about the name Master Father Lord and the like But see how thou art presently found in an Allegory ghessing at the baptisme of Moses and saying Moses as a servant in his house was faithfull But thou must be the Master not a servant and this makes thee unfaithfull in the house of God like a Thief coming in to steal and to kill and destroy And hence thou criest out and liftest up thy voice in the street against all but such as wear thy mark thou art flesh thou art damned thou art a witch a ravenous beast there 's no pity nor mercy nor anointing with Christs nature appearing in thee and all because thou art not content to be servant but must be Master of all mens faith Repl. But thou sayest Moses saw the Egyptians drowned in the Sea and over them he sang which thou doest not know Answ Here 's an Allegory indeed see the question is what is the baptisme unto Moses in the Cloud and in the sea Answer Moses saw the Egyptians drowned in the Sea and over them he sang And is not this a learned Metaphoricall answer coming from a perfect man But by good ghesse thou hast spoken a truth though besides the mark It is so indeed Moses saw the Egyptians drowned in the Sea and yet there 's one Egyptian still alive in thee and he prattles on and saith Repl. I am in the fruits of the flesh and act contrary to the light of my conscience and so am for condemnation with the light Answ What 's all this to the baptisme of Moses Seeing our answer was denied we looked to have had some satisfaction from thee but all that I hear of is I must be condemned with the light Here thou alterest the phrase of Scripture to make void no doubt all other condemnation and Hell but what is within from the light This is good news for the World and so thy Religion like to prevail much with the vessels of wrath fitting for destruction But I must be condemned with the light The phrase is not proper nor savouring of the light of God for it seems as if the light and I should be condemned together and so we are by this dark generation But thy meaning is the light shall condemne me because I act contrary unto it And yet I desire to stand or fall unto the light of the Lord not to the judgement of this wise generation who put darknesse for light and light for darknesse and so the wo is upon them Isa 3. 10. Repl. But I oppresse the just lay heavy burdens upon them who out of the house of bondage would go the living God to worship so that a rest there is but I and all Magicians who deceive people with liknesses no further than the Sea must come there must I and all my glory Perish Answ Here no doubt are some of the Egyptians mentioned which I never saw drowned in me yet Yet know friend that I am so farre delivered from these Egyptians that I cannot oppresse either the just or unjust it is against my nature I cannot lay heavy burdens upon them and not touch them with one of my fingers this is enough for a Pharisee Neither am I desirous to see any soul in the house of bondage longer than the appointed time of the Father All that ever I aimed at was this to let people know that God goes down with his into Egypt is with them in their forms and bondage where they will be and stay till the day and time of their redemption and freedom But thee I see not going out of Egypt the living God to worship but to make thy self a God so know though a rest there be yet thou and all murmurers against thy fellow-servants and contemners of the wise dispensations of God because he goes down with his into Egypt together with all thy Magick and enchantments images and liknesses of holinesse and purity when the bitter root of pride remaines undestroyed all these Persons and things must
The scornfull QUAKERS ANSVVERED AND Their railing REPLY refuted BY The meanest of the LORDS Servants MAGNUS BYNE Beware of false Prophets They come unto you in Sheeps cloathing but inwardly are ravening Wolves Believe not every Spirit but try the Spirits whether they be of God Because many false Prophets are gone out into the World LONDON Printed by William Bentley for Andrew Crook at the sign of the green Dragon in Pauls Church-yard 1656. To the READER DEar friend I speak to thy conscience in much tendernesse unto thy Soul Learn to fear the great God more and more For blessed is the man that feareth alwayes Wait upon the Lord and he shall renew thy strength Go unto him as unto thine exceeding joy Love all the appearances of his Son as the comfort of Saints in all generations Watch over thine own heart Stand in awe and sin not Let the Lord come into his Temple and Worship him alone Take heed of every gin and snare of the old serpent who is in a great rage because he hath but a short time Be sober and quiet in thy Spirit and hear the Lord speak His word is nigh thee within thee walk in the strength of it and this will keep thee from the paths of the destroyer Long in thy Spirit to see the new Jerusalem the new Heavens and the new earth wherein dwels righteousnesse Let thy moderation be known to all men for the Lord the desire of all Nations is at hand Stand still be calm be meek and thou shalt see his salvation Let thy Spirit groan and travel in pain with longing to see the Lord arising to work For men abused by the old Dragon seek to make void his Law And among all the vanities which I have seen under the Sun take heed of the two foolish blind mad generations of Ranters and Quakers The former of which I have seen the Lord scatter and appear in great wrath to consume rebuking the evil Spirit in them and laying them open to their shame among their enemies The latter of these I have had some dealings with and finde them more furious and raging than all that have gone before them and notwithstanding all their shew of holinesse wisdom humility temperance yet by a little dealing with them I finde nothing but impurity folly pride madnesse even to admiration and wonder in all their doting questions fowl mouthed answers vain janglings railing accusations even as if Satan had left all others and brought all his power along with him to fill their hearts and tongues with all manner of blasphemies and evil speakings against all others but their own deluded party And strange it is to see how Satan in them is divided against Satan Satan rails blasphemes and then to save himself cries out 't is Satan he blasphemes and and rails at in others The Devil mocks jeers scoffs rages in their filthy hearts and tongues and when he is seen and manifested by his carriage to be the evil one presently he condemnes himself and sayes 't is the Devil all my fury is powred out upon 't is him I condemne in men and women not the similitude of God the man or woman to whom I speak Thus the Lyar and the Murderer in these men raging speaks to excuse himself from his lying and murdering by perswading simple people 't is himself he aimes at And yet such a strong inchantment I finde in this mad carriage that some poor Souls are even overcome with their violence and have thrown away not the light and grace of God onely that once appeared in them in shew but even their reason and humanity too and subjected themselves to this carnal yoke for fear of being still condemned by the Devil Take one passage of a great Prophet of their own one Tho. Law-Cock who meeting at one Goodman Matthews house near me was called aside by the woman of the house of good report but almost turned a Quaker to whom the woman in kindenesse said Sir will you eat something which I have provided The Quaker replied What shall I eat with Devils and Dogs and pointing to a Dog There 's thy Companion thy fellow-creature of the same nature with thy self saith the Quaker and shall I eat with thee a Devil a Dog And was not this a good argument at the first meeting to perswade the woman to be a Quaker And when the woman began to reply something to excuse her great sin of asking this man of God as he calls himself to eat he opens his box again and calls her Whore and Harlot and was not this another good argument to perswade her And yet this woman and the man too begins to believe in the Quakers and to admire their light and power lusting after the painted image and innocent spotlesse religion which thâ—se poor deluded wretches have set up and made And as they have dealt with this woman so with some others whom I know prevailing with them and upon them even by the same Magical power of Satans workings in them Therefore it behooveth us all to look to our building upon the Rock to our interest in the holy one of God to our receiving and walking in Jesus Christ the Lord rooted and built up in him that so the gates of Hell may not prevail against us Further a little to lay open this blinde seer Lawcock at one meeting with some Baptists he was demanded whether Christ suffered and died at Jerusalem His answer was That Christ suffered but Christ did not die and yet it was not Christ who suffered neither but that which was born of the Virgin See here his contradictions of himself and his contempt and denyall of the death of Christ And yet afterwards at another meeting being in the presence I charged him with this and he presently cried out Thou lyest I acknowledge Christ both suffered and died and yet this man must be infallible in the midst of all these contradictions against himself Further at the same meeting when I was present and beginning to lay open his folly the Quaker exhorting to meeknesse and silence and the like but presently falling a railing cursing and roaring against Priests and hirelings I asked him in patience how these speeches could hang together we must be meek calm quiet but he must roar and rage At the first dash the man cries out thou lyest thou art a beast and the like and entreating the man to sit down and be meek according to his own speech he foams out his own shame still A litte after wondring at the madnesse of the Prophet at the trouble and torment of the evil Spirit in him I desired him to speak but two words of sense and reason and I would be silent the man roars again Thou art a belly-god thou art a beast And is not this a goodly Apostle Prophet Teacher Let all men judge that will not be like the beasts unreasonable Further desiring a Scripture to maintain something he spake against the
and misery and translated me into the Kingdom of his dear Son where I have righteousnesse peace and joy and that in power which makes these things in me unspeakable and full of glorie Quest Who baptized John the Baptist Answ Even he baptized him by his Spirit into his administration who sent him first forth to baptize with water he being the first who was called to that baptisme of water had no need of the baptisme of any other but of him who sent him Quest. Whether is Jesus Christ the end of all figures Answ Yea I look upon Jesus Christ as the end and fulfilling of all types and shadows he being the substance for whose sake all figures were ordained and when he is come the figure disappears or the shadow flies away Quest Whether Jesus Christ baptized any with outward water yea or nay Answ We read that Christ was baptized himself with water by John who was the Minister of water but Jesus Christ himself never baptized or administred water in his own person John 4. 1 2. Quest Whether John was a Prophet And whether Iesus Christ be the end of the Prophets and prophetical figures yea or nay Answ Iohn was a Prophet nearer the more clear Revelation of Iesus Christ than the rest and therefore more in the light for a greater Prophet than Iohn hath not risen and yet as other Prophets he was one rather upon the account of the Law than the Gospel For he who was least in the Kingdom of God or administration of the Gospel was greater than he Matt. 11. 11. Now Christ is the end or fulfilling of Iohn and the rest of the Prophets and their shadowish ministrations and all the Lords people under the ministration of Christs reign within are made Kings and Priests and Prophets unto God in their own persons Quest Whether he whose Commission is in Ink and Paper without him be not a Minister of the Letter and not of the Spirit one that walks by tradition and imitation and not by command and so shut out of the true ministerie Answ Such an one I look upon as a Thief and Robber because not entring in by the door of the Spirit within into the sheepfold And though these men speak the words of Moses of Christ and other holy men of God yet having no experience of the truth and enjoyment of what they speak within hence they can be but Lip-Ministers and make but Lip-Christians being rather mockers of Christ and his Spirit in the Saints than Ambassadours from Heaven to awaken Christ in mens consciences and to set him up to reign as King and Lord in mens Spirits which is the end of the Lord by the Ministery of those whom he sends Quest Whether Iesus Christ who sent forth Disciples sent them to spread abroad Iohn and his Ministery who was a Prophet or himself who was the end of the Prophets greater than Iohn who baptizeth with the holy Ghost in whom alone is salvation yea or nay yet who owns him sets every thing in its place time and season Answ The end of Christs sending out to preach was that thereby the Nations might be baptized not into the name of Iohn or Peter or Iames or Paul but into the name of God that they might understand and know God and Iesus Christ whom he hath sent that men might become the Lords Disciples and not the Disciples of men and so we finde the Apostles not preaching up themselves but Iesus Christ the Lord and themselves servants Apostles men sent to minister as they had received And the main drift of their preaching we finde was to declare the Gospel glad tidings of grace and peace through Christ unto the Sons of men to open the mystery of Christ which was hidden from former ages and to entreat men through Christ to be reconciled unto God to bring to a receiving all from Christ and to a placing all in Christ who of God is made unto all his wisdom righteousnesse and redemption and that by way of Spirit and power working all these in their Souls In brief Christ sent out his Disciples to declare himself to preach salvation in his name and to perswade the vvorld to faith and meeknesse and love and self-denial c. through their taking in Christ to work all these in their Souls And yet they were to give every outward person and ordinance God was to make use of or had made use of before its due respect plate and season Quest Whether the baptisme unto Moses in the Cloud and in the Sea was outward yea or nay Answ The baptisme unto Moses in the Cloud and in the Sea I take not to be literal but metaphorical and a typical baptisme The Cloud typically holds forth the presence of God overshadowing protecting and defending them from their enemies And their passing through the Sea on dry ground when their enemies were overwhelmed and drowned holds forth the wonderfull power of God in their deliverance and defence These were two great Declarations of Gods power and providence towards that people by which they were baptized unto Moses that is confirmed in the truth of his administration and so taught to believe God and his servant Moses whom he had sent by a strong hand to bring them out of Egypt into Canaan Quest. Whether the one baptisme which Paul spake of who was not sent to baptize was with outward water or with the baptisme of Christ who is greater than John Answ The baptisme which Paul cals one is the baptisme of Christ upon all his whereby they are baptized spiritually into an onenesse of nature with himself as their faith is one so their baptisme one Quest Whether that baptisme which Peter witnesseth to have which was not the putting away this filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ was with outward water yea or nay Answ This baptisme the Apostle here speaks of must needs be an inward thing wrought in the soul by the resurrection or appearing of Christ there in spirit through whose coming the conscience comes to be cleansed from guilt shame and fear and so the soul can go unto God cheerfully and safely as one saved through the baptisme or spiritual work of the Son of God within Quest Whether that cup of which Jesus Christ sayd that henceforth he would not drink of the fruit of the wine till he did drink it new with them in his Fathers kingdom was an outward cup yea or nay Answ This cup and drinking in the Fathers kingdom must needs be a spiritual cup and drinking for in the Kingdom of God there 's no eating and drinking of earthly fruit all is heavenly and Paradisicall there 's no eating and drinking of any thing but what flowes from the nature and spirit and fulnes of the Father Quest Whether any outward cup be drunk in the Kingdom of God yea or nay Answ There 's no carnal sensual cup
judged out of thine own mouth to speak contrary unto thy own light And though thou wouldest infer from the Apostles words 2 Pet. 1. 19. That there is a light which shines in the creature before Christ come yet that light thou art faine to acknowledge doth proceed from the Son and lead unto him so that Christ is still the Fountain and first cause of light and by the light of Christ within we come to see and know that the Scriptures are the sure Word of God and so we are led into the pure Religion according to what is written in the Scriptures of truth and the end of this Scripture is again to turn us unto Christ who is the spirit and truth of the Scriptures and so Christ is still the first and last in all the discoveries we have of God he is all the light we have by night and day and though the Scriptures are a precious light yet all the light that is in them is but borrowed from the Son and if we see them not know them not in his light and through his light they may shine long enough before the day will break in our hearts but when Christ leads us into the meaning of Scriptures and brings us to live in the power and truth of them which is himself then by degrees it becomes day with us and this day still leads us into the pure Religion according to what is written within and without and when we wander in the least is as a voice behinde us saying this is the way walke in it this is the old way And this voice of Christ alone hath such power in it both to begin and perfect us in Religion that without it all we do is not well done and so is but the sacrifice of the wicked which is an abomination And so to sum up this know 1. That ye cannot know the meaning of the Scriptures without Christ 2. Ye cannot live the life of the Scriptures without Christ lead ye into it 3. Ye cannot be in the pure Religion without Christ first work it and bring it into being and light in the heart 4. Ye cannot be in the volume of the book in a clear reading of what is written much lesse in the life and body of the book which is Christ the substance without Christ himself manifested in you And so thou who seemest to be Religious learn to bridle thine own tongue otherwise thou doest but deceive thine own heart and all thy Religion is vaine and learn to know thine own light who in thine answer to my ten queries about the light that is in heathens and the light that is peculiar to the Saints of God sayest that the light of Christ is the only guide to them that follow it and besides it there is no guide to Jew or Gentile And so if this light of Christ be the onely guide surely it must be the onely guide into all pure Religion and so the first principle of that which is pure And thou who criest out O shame art judged out of thine own mouth to be shamelesse impudent in scoffing at the first principle of pure Religion to be the Son of God dwelling in us Repl. In mine answer to thy second Question thou deniest the Fathers work and will to be the yoke of Christ and tellest me That I who am a stranger to the first principle of pure Religion from me is the yoke of Christ and the burden of Christ hid and so I am coming about the thing in words but the thing it self is hid from me c. Answ The Pharisees were full of questions and in their fastings disfiguring their faces sad countenances outside holines great abstinence vain repetitions striving and contending against every thing but what themselves did or spake were a fit figure of this questioning generation Thou dark Pharisee thou lookest so much upon thy questions thou canst not look at all upon the answer If thou speak of the Person of Christ the Mediator which thou deniest his work was to glorify his Father on earth to finish the work which he gave him to do If thou speak of Christ the manifestation of the Father in his Children his work is there likewise to do the will of his Father by subjecting the creature to the yoke or will of God that God may be glorified so that the Fathers work and will is Christs yoke which he was contented to be subject unto And this is the Christians yoke that Christ teaches the soul wherein he lives to put his neck under and be subject unto And so the yoke of Christ what was it and what is it but to be subject to his Fathers will Not to be his own but his Fathers I came not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me But what was the work of God which Christ had to do Answer It lay in two things 1. To bear our griefs and carry our sorrows to be smitten wounded and grieved for our iniquities to bear our sin and all the sorrow grief and Hell due unto us for them 2. His work was likewise to make reconciliation and peace manifest unto the World and to work mens hearts into a belief of what he hath done and wrought for them to bring about their deliverance and salvation Wert thou rightly acquainted with this work and the meeknesse and lowlinesse of the person who wrought it thou wouldst soon see this to be a great yoke and taske to come under and do But this is History and to shew thy self wise this is trampled under thy feet and of no account with thee and so thou deniest the Lord that bought thee and in thy dark fancie leapest into the mystery and sayest I see not that which turns the creature into the work and will of God Here thou art upon the light within and thâ—s thou art still dreaming of though thou know not what it is nor whence it comes for this would never move thee to slight the letter the History the bloud of Christ without but would bring thee into a rejoycing in all the Fathers work and will which the Son lived in Repl. Further thou sayest The yoke of Christ is where the work and wil of the Devil is lived in for Christ is the true light Answ And so say I too The work and will of God ought to be lived in by that man who wrests his neck from the yoke and scorns to be subject unto God as his father And thus the light tells me it is with thee thou livest in the nature which spurns off the yoke living in pride and high conceit of thine own worth in haughtinesse envy and strife and this makes thee fancy thy self to be a Christ and God and so instead of judging thy self and confessing thine own vilenesse and nothingnesse thou must speak evil of thy brother and condemne all besides thy self Nay God and Christ and Scripture and light within must all concurre
deceitfull above all things and knoweth nothing by nature of the spirituall things of God If thou hadst the Lord the just Judge in the midst of thy spirit quickened he would have shaken thee out of thy earthly heaven and digged up that root of bitternesse out of thine heart which springs from the bottomlesse pit in thee which root hath been spared through thine own indulgence to thy self as that within thee beares thee witnesse Repl. Thou tellest me The crosse is foolishnesse to me Answ It is so to reason in me but to faith it 's the power of God and the wisdom of God to thee indeed it is foolishnesse who instead of beleeving in the crosse of Christ makest nothing of the bloud of Christ shed at Jerusalem and so art fondly prying into the mysterie before the foundation be laid Repl. Thou sayest When I am searched into I am found an Alien to the ground of truth and yet through the pride of mine heart I said to such as I had formerly bewitched through my lies in hypocrisie that the questions were low and simple things Answ Thou I say art not capable of discerning either the truth or an Alien from it who hast no other ballance but thine own weak reason and dream to weigh things with As for my bewitching any through my lies let them speak and shew me what errour or sin or mischief I ever perswaded them unto If they came to me they were welcome if they are nearer to God 't is well if further off that 's ill I never did much glory in their company since I found them carried about with winde and fables As for thy questions thou seest I make a sober answer without bitternesse or railing though some of them I found alike and some of them I know not what This I know will grieve thee to see thy glory stained and slighted never so little seeing thou art the Pharisee that gloryest in thy questions Repl. Thou sayest The least measure of the life of the kingdom is hid from me Answ The life of the kingdom begins in the crosse of Christ since this hath had it's power in me to my crucifying and slaying in any measure I have found the life of the kingdom springing up and in this kingdom I have some measure of righteousnesse peace and so it is not altogether hid from me But thou rebellious wretch where wilt thou begin to enter into the kingdom where life is who lookest upon the crosse of Christ as a foolish thing and makest his sufferings and crucifyings in the flesh no crosse no part of his crosse and so swine-like tramplest under thy feet the precious bloud of the Son of God and makest it veil to thee so knowest not where life begins though the crosse of Christ without in the flesh and history thou mayest read and learn exactly too and yet not begin the life of the kingdom without the vertue and power of it crucifie thy self and flesh and arm thee with the minde of Christ to empty thy self of all thy glory and to humble thee at the feet of God to death as Christ did Repl. But thou sayest I use my tongue and say the Lord sayth when I have nothing but the letter and harlot-like trim my self with it and sit in an high seat in my imaginations even above the seed which by the fowls of the aire is devoured Answ The letter of the Scriptures being a declaration of the minde and love of God to man I look upon as one of the choice vessels of the Lords sanctuary and the flesh body and sufferings of Christ to purchase and make peace for us I look upon as a vessel without which the Lords sanctuary cannot be furnished with the Oyle of life or the beginnings of salvation This letter concerning Christ especially together with all the rest of the Scriptures I look upon as a precious mercy and light unto the Sons of men And yet all this without the meaning and fulfilling of Scriptures in us and to us by the anointing of the spirit availes nothing unto our salvation and inward consolation so that letter and history joyned with the spirit of the Lord opening and sealing the meaning and substance to my spirit is the Word of the Lord to me And friend this tongue of mine which thou sayest I use was given me to this end to use against all such as shall no lesse than commit fornication with the letter when it seems to favour their weak imaginations and formes but yet cannot endure to unite with the meaning and mystery couched or vayled under the letter And thus it is with the Quakers in their carnall tremblings Cattle of Tythes Priests the word Master Father the titles of thou you yea nay and the like In these things their souls are drunk with the letter and made they are against all interpretations and meanings put upon the letter though by the Lords spirit but in the great things of Christ and resurrection and judgement and heaven and hell after this life here the letter is prophanely trampled upon slighted abused contradicted and their fancie meanings and sensuall interpretations must be all the Scripture in such matters and so sometimes they are glorying in the letter but cannot endure the meaning and fulfilling at other times they are glorying in the mysterie and meaning but cannot endure the letter See here friends what a nose of wax as the Papists call it ye make of the Scriptures of truth and how they are wrested by you as by all other dark forms and professions onely to uphold your golden image that your own fingers have made This I cannot passe by in you with silence neither that high seat ye seek to creep into even the seat of God crying out lo here lo there I am Christ I am wise I am perfect without all spot All this is so manifest against both letter and meaning of Scriptures that though I should hold my peace the stones in the street would cry out against you And so thou who sayest I harlot-like trimme my self with the letter take heed how thou harlot-like trimmest thy self with Gods glory that others may ignorantly worship thee for God who art a poor broken idoll And take heed how by talking of a light within which I own in it's place thou prophanely despisest what is written in the letter seeing that also is a light that shines in a dark place and so to be owned of us too And take heed how in thy high-flowen lofty spirit thou be not found in that which thou condemnest in another viz. among the fowles of the ayre seeking to devour all the precious seed of God that is sown in any form or people besides thine own Repl. But I would deceive such thou sayest who are going right on their way Answ If by way thou understand a following of Christ in the way of life such I cannot deceive for no man can pluck such out of Christs
hand he and his father are greater than all and sufficiently able to preserve all theirs from all delusions and pollutions of men If thou mean by their way mans way or thy way which is a way of sense and reason and flesh such as are going in this way my desire is to undeceive But in any way of God be as strict and holy as the will or rather as the grace of God shall teach you to be onely have a care that ye begin not in the spirit and end in the flesh and so stick in the washing of the cup or platter or out-side when the heart is proud and lofty and doth all it doth to justifie it self with the proud Pharisee Repl. But thou sayest again I know not the Crosse which is the power of God to them that are saved and the bloud of his Crosse who makes peace I know not and so am unwashed in the bloud of the Lamb a Sow wallowing in the mire that 's my figure I wallow in pride and covetousnesse c. Answ Through the bloud of the everlasting covenant I have seen and believed the love that God hath to me and I own the bloud of his Crosse who hath made peace for me This through faith in it becomes the power of God to save me and this Crosse having its efficacy upon my Soul becomes the ruin of Satans Kingdom in my flesh And now I am not ashamed to tell thee I know no mire I wallow in but that of scandals reproaches accusations slanders from Satan and his Spirit who rules in the dark world and yet through the power and vertue of the Crosse am I freed from fear of this mire and this power carries me forth out of the mire of corruption and teacheth me to die dayly to live more to him and in him who is my life and Saviour And this I know is accepted according to what I have And now who art thou that condemnest It is God that justifies and sets me free from the reign of sin and death though I finde still enough in the flesh within me to keep me humble and low yet thou who wilt needs be my judge know that in the midst of all Satans railings and accusings and condemnings of me by thee I can sweetly behold the Lord causing all these things to work together for my good and easily making void thy condemnations Repl. Further thou tellest me I take upon me to tell what the flaming sword is and ghesse one thing and another thing Answ Here thou art still in the image of thy father either railing or scoffing when thou knowest not what to reply or say It seems thy questions were so deep in thy conceit that none could answer them but by ghessing and so they might be in thy double doubtfull sense Didst thou ever hear of the Oracles of old among the Heathen whither people resorting to ask the event of things the subtle Devil alwayes gave forth his answers in a double doubtfull sense and by this trick he kept up his credit in that blinde generation Just like his answers then are thy questions now alwayes taken in a double sense and when they are answered in the Letter then thou flyest unto the spirit and when they are answered in the spirit then thou flyest unto the Letter and so like thy father between both thou seekest to maintain thy credit among thy blinde friends for that 's thy God thy credit and yet it may be God may open thine eyes I can but ghesse at it seeing thou hast so willingly denied the Lord that bought thee But to thy reply that may be doth not make mine answer a ghesse but lets thee understand that the flaming sword is a real thing in both those senses I named And with this sword God will confound and destroy all proud persons and things for ever And though thou see it not yet my joy is that this sword of the Lord hath kept me from the forbidden Tree and put me in minde of the new and living way of coming to the Tree of life which is by the bloud of Jesus Thus the Law and the fiercenesse of the wrath of God which cuts me off every way from entring into life through mine own power and merits puts me upon the way of the Gospel and free grace which is to enter into life by believing on him who justifies the ungodly and so to be saved by the power and merits of Jesus Christ And though thou tell me of deceit guile covetousnesse hypocrisie doubtfulnesse which the sword takes hold of Yet I tell thee again the sword of the Lord in me hath cut down the Tree where these things grow and I am risen from their power and covet dayly to finde the power of the Crosse to crucifie these things in me more and more that so I may be more freed from all these works which the sword takes hold of and so Jacobs portion even the Lord is still mine for ever notwithstanding all thy ghessing at my pride covetousnesse c. Repl. Another great fault thou findest with me is that I am called of men Master which Christs forbids Answ Sometimes thou art in the meaning and deniest the Letter as in the Crosse of Christ here thou art low in the Letter but deniest or else knowest not the meaning and therefore art thou found in the thing and power of the name Master but grudgest another the form or name outwardly of Master Thou sayest I am called Master and so I am through mans courtesie without any affectation of mine But thou thy self lovest to be the Master and Father of anothers faith the Christ the high one which Christ forbids though thou art a poor drop a worm defiled with errours blindnesse and sins like others of the sons of men Repl. But thou sayest I am telling of the 3. principle of the elementary world of the strong word and much more which I received from the mouth of the Germane vvriter I. B. not from the mouth of the Lord. Answ As for my using an expression which sets forth the life of a truth what matters it whose the words were If I had borrowed an answer out of Behemen I should soon have heard thee set down the place which had been something indeed though I know it as lawfull for me to use another mans words and speeches so as I am made one with the thing in mine own spirit as it was with Paul to use the saying of an Heathen Poet. Repl. But thou tellest me I am telling of the language of Egypt and in the same thing I witnessed against am I found Answ Here thou seemest to confesse contrary to the minde of thy father that I speak a truth yet to save thy credit because thou thy self art guilty of the language of Egypt thou sayest I have got the language of the Israel of God but the Egyptian speaks them Is not this a brave come off But stay notwithstanding this fine
judge any thing in thee but what falls under the condemnation of the light and truth of God and though thou pretendest to a fulnesse of light and knowledge yet I finde thee low and dark by thy frivolous answers which thou givest to what the Soul is what the two witnesses are what the first and second resurrection is what the day of judgement heaven and hell are and many other things propounded to thee which I finde thee unable and unwilling to make out the truth of and therefore art thou angry that thy weak building is so much as questioned And yet thou knowest the Apostles counsel is to us all that we should be alwayes ready to give answer of the hope that is in us with meeknesse and fear but thou having no hope but in this life thy heaven and happinesse here art judged of all men to be most miserable according to what the Apostle saith If in this life onely we have hope in him we are of all men most miserable And so thou miserable wretch art loath to be questioned though thou send questions by the scores to other men Repl. But thou seest mine intent thou sayest I would not have my deeds of darknesse reproved Answ If thou hast received wisdom and power to reprove in the name of the Lord do it as sharply and bitterly as thou canst for let the righteous smite me it shall be a kindnesse let him reprove me it shall be an excellent Oyl which shall not break mine head But to thee I say have a care thou take not the name of God in vain for the righteous one I do not finde in thee reproving seeing thou canst not do it in the patience and meeknesse of Jesus Christ. But thou sayest Repl. Is not that the honour which is given to all the Saints to execute judgement upon the Heathen Psal 149. 6 7 8 9. And all that know not God are Heathen and he that sins hath neither seen God nor known God 1 Joh. 3. 6. That which cleanseth man leadeth man to see God The pure in heart see God and Canaan was a figure of the spiritual rest c. Answ Friend wert thou in the meaning as well as in the Letter of these Scriptures thine eyes would be in thine own head not alwayes abroad like an Heathen in the ends of the earth and so thou wouldest judge and excute vengeance upon the Heathen or carnal man in thy self and then be in a fit posture of wisdom to judge the Heathen or carnal men without bearing witnesse against all their railings and revilings both in thy words and deeds But to look a little upon the places noted by thee This honour have all the Saints to execute the Lords vengeance by the two edged sword of his Spirit upon all the Heathen But thou art found to thy dishonour judging the Sons of God and the Daughters of God to be Heathen and so thy sword is drawn against the Lords anointed ones not against the Heathen And as for the binding of their Kings with Chains and their Nobles with fetters of Iron which shall be the honour of the Saints to do I finde this Scripture not yet eminently fulfilled in spirit and power some outward binding I have seen fulfilled in our own land but the firm real strong binding and limiting that shall be by the reigning of Christ in power and great glory in his Saints this shall asswage the malice and rigour of the Kings of the earth against the Church and make them stoop and bend and be willing to bring all their glory to her because they shall see and say the Lord is in you of a truth This day of the Churches power through the presence of the Lord in her in much wisdom knowledge righteousnesse and love to binde the Heathen and their Kings I finde dawning and the desire of all Nations is not far off But yet through the Saints violence and rage one against another in their several forms and imaginations evâ—ry one making hast to have the Crown and Honour of the day to himself â—â—â—t looking so much to the coming of the Lord as to his own advancing above all others of his brethren watching rather upon one anothers infirmities than upon the appearing of the Lord in one another through this weaknesse of the Saints and too much indulgence to their forms I finde the great day of binding to be retarded and prolonged yet the Vision is for an appointed time he that shall come will come and will not tarry And had we but a little more faith patience and quietnesse in our spirits we should soon see the Lord and his salvation Therefore stand ye still and be silent O all flesh wait upon the Lord and he shall bring forth thy righteousnesse as the light and thy judgement as the noon day It is his nature his power in the Saints that must bind Satan and all the wicked ones of the earth If man onely binde and kill and slay this worketh no deliverance no settlement no peace as we see at this day But when the Lord shall binde and slay and put in prison our enemies then we shall have rest and joy and quietnesse in our habitations Therefore as Bellarmine said when he came to die after all his study and labour to advance free will and mans merits that it was the safest way onely to rely upon Christ so say I after all our vain study and labour each to draw Disciples after himself to make his name and side great and strong the best and safest way will be for every one to rely upon the Lord and to think soberly of himself according as God hath given to every man the measure of truth and faith and then we shall begin to Judge the Heathen indeed and not thus shame our selves before them by our envy and railing and evill speaking one against another Repl. Further thou sayest all that know not God are Heathen and he that sins hath neither seen God nor known God Answ And so say I all that know him not in some measure of light and love are heathens and he that is in bondage to corruption that sins freely and willingly he hath no true sense nor saving knowledge of God upon him or in him and yet through infirmity temptation and weaknesse a Saint who hath a sweet taste and sense of God may be found in that which is sinfull though this man will by no means allow or approve of sin As Paul saith the evill which I do I allow not Repl. And thou sayest that which cleanseth men leadeth man to see God the pure in heart see God Answ All this is truth That which cleanseth and purifieth and leadeth to a sight of God is one power one pure spirit and by cleansing out what is contrary unto it self and making it self plain which is pure it leads the soul according to it's discovery into the spirituall rest where it satiates and fills it self with
the fatâ—â—â—e and fulnesse of God who is it's center and rest of which Canaan was a figure Wert thou in this rest thou wouldst cease from tine own works from the best as well as the worst as they are thine own and so thou wouldst learn to justifie thy self in the Lord and make him and his works thy rest and joy Repl. Thou sayest Isaiah bare witnesse against such who sought gain from their quarters Isa 5. 10 11. as I do witnesse my taking Tythe of two Parishes Answ Know friend that Isaiah witnessed this when Tythes were commanded and taken so that it was not Tythes but the greedinesse after gain that Isaiah rebukes in the watchmen calling them greedy Dogs which can never have enough though they were blinde ignorant dumbe sleeping dreaming taking no care to feed the flock or instruct the people yet they were greedy after the wages and gain This is that Isaiah condemned of old not the taking of Tythes moderately for their maintenance And this is a thing I am as ready to speak against as thy self knowing full well that the blindnesse and dumbnesse and lazinesse and formalnesse and covetousnesse of many of Englands watchmen hath brought all this reproach upon the ministery at this day Yet all this is no ground for thee and others to destroy the righteous with the wicked and to make the righteous as the wicked which have been a light to thee formerly though thou lye and shamefully deny it now to maintain thy pride and scorne against the best as well as the worst of Englands watchmen When thou canst tax me justly of being greedy after gain and of being blinde dumbe lazie as those were that Isaiah complains of then tax me for taking Tythes as if that were the end of my ministerie I could tell thee of the dumbe meetings of Quakers who when they are assembled by scores and hundreds which they glory much in and are all Prophets Diviners and Teachers as they dream yet are for want of vision half a day together dumb mute and silent and so go all away as wise as they came having never a dream to tell or word to speak because they have seen nothing And are not these dumb meetings of yours silent discoveries of the hand of the Lord against your great professions of light and perfection When your eyes are opened you shall see it to be so and be ashamed for your envy at the people of God Repl. Thou sayest further Jeremiah cried out against such who bare rule by the peoples meanes Jer. 5. 30 31. Answ Here thou art found perverting the very letter putting in peoples instead of Priest surely this was out of thy great love to the Priests or else thy Father to spare none hath opened thy mouth against both people and Priests but this is one of thy moates or small ones therefore I 'le by it passe Repl Thou goest on to say Jeremiah cals it an horrible and filthy thing and none so filthy as I who take Tythe of two Parishes and Micah cried out against such as taught for hire Mic. 3. 10 11. Answ All this being in a time when Tythes were lawfull as thou hast said I wonder how thou canst bring it in against the lawfulnesse of Tythes The Priests taught for hire and the Prophets did divine for money this indeed concerns all those who teach for coveteous ends and hire not any that teach faithfully what they have received from the Lord though they go not to warfare at their own charge but take Tythes as maintenance for their labour But all this I see proceeds from the old root of bitternesse in thee which teacheth thee to apply Scriptures after the manner of the world against all such who reprove sin in the gate Repl. But Christ thou sayest bare witnesse against such who are called of men Masters Answ And so do I against all such Quakers or others that would faine be Masters or Fathers of all other mens faith and light neither did I ever desire another to be Master and Father over the conscience but Jesus Christ the Lord For who is Paul or Apollo or Cephas but Ministers of the faith of Saints not Fathers and Masters of their faith But thee I see loving the thing Master and the thing Father and therefore all are condemned by thee that pin not their faith upon thy weak imaginations this was the sin that Christ condemned in the Priests and Pharisees of old For further answer read Mr. Baxter who hath said enough in this matter to give full satisfaction to the wise Repl. Further thou sayest Paul called such evill beasts and lyars who taught things they ought not for filthy Lucre Tit. 1. 10 11 12. so am I for filthy Lucres sake holding up the first Priest-hood and their wages c. Answ I know a necessity is laid upon me to preach the Gospell and this that I desire to teach in all meetings where I finde people met together and made free to heare and this I am ready to commend upon all occasions to every mans conscience in the sight of God And this Gospel I know itching ears cannot endure to heare And thou who criest out I teach for filthy Lucre I bring up the first Priest-hood and their wages none so filthy as I I take Tythe of two Parishes to thee I say thy wisdom hath made thee erre and hardened thy heart against the fear of God thine eye is put out by the God of this World and so like other dark forms thine envy is poured out chiefly against the Ministers and their Tythes and they are all Priests and Tythe-mongers all so and yet not all that 's but the old man in thee that saith so the lyar that never told truth nor loved any out of himself he hath taken from thee the understanding heart and so thou canst not see that here and there is a Minister that stands up in the gap that mourns for the Nations pride and beseecheth men to be reconciled to God though such an one be usually hated persecuted and that maintenance he hath be coveteously kept from him by the World And this is the man is most railed at by thy generation that stick in the Letter now and then when it seems to favour them though in other things they abhor the Letter and the meaning too What Scripture there is for Tythes and in what cases a Minister may take it as from God and man and yet oppresse none me thinks they might see who usually scoffe at the Letter for being called the word of God and pretend to the meaning to the spirit to be the chief thing in the word as indeed it is What Scripture there is for Tythes or maintenance thou shalt see afterwards and so for the present I 'le let thee alone to murmure and rail till the Lord rebuke thee Further in Canaan I said old things are passed away and all is become new and here thou criest out
of the flesh I live and so my latter end is worse than my beginning Answ Though thou say so yet know that I have found out sin by sin and it was well that God did awaken me though by sin It may be thine eyes see not what this means though thou art the seer Further know though I am vile in one sense yet not guilty in the sense of the world neither acquainted with many of those things which they falsly lay unto my charge where I am guilty I have grace in me to trouble me to humble me to groan in me for deliverance to make me more vile then thou canst make me and yet to keep me from returning into Egypt again but to wait for a full power to sin no more which if it might be in thy sense I should be glad but in the sense of the Scriptures I know it shall be made good and what that is thou canst not learn but by enjoyment Repl. And the baptisme in the death of Christ thou tellest me I do not witnesse neither a planting into the likenesse of death for the Crosse of Christ thou knowest not neither doest in it live by which thing this baptisme into his death is witnessed Answ 1. I finde thee still full of condemnation and yet Christ saith he was not sent to condemne the world Joh. 3. 17. but that the world through him might be saved 2. With me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of thee or of mans judgement yea I judge not my self but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 3. Thou Hypocrite first cast out the beam out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the moat out of thy brothers eye 4. Remember the death of Christ the Crosse of Christ when thou passest under thou wilt finde work enough at home but thou hast spared thy self pitied thy self slain the just one that thou mightest live and reign thou hast cried out let him be crucified that I may live in his stead and say I am he Where the Crosse of Christ hath had its power there the first man is condemned flesh withers the poor Soul is ashamed of his works and sins But thou art full and rich and high and sayest I am not the man I never Crucified the Lord of glory Judas thou knowest suspected not himself and in this Traitor see thy self and know thy own spirit 5. If I am not as I long to be yet I see the bloud of Christ cleanseth me from all my sin the Crosse of Christ makes me not to spare my self or sin I have Jesus who was dead but is alive in me making void all my glorying in flesh and bloud and he is bearing witnesse to my Crucifying and to his resurrection which is my glory And though thou a man charge me with folly yet he the true God declares me just in himself and he goes on Conquering and to Conquer and what he sees amisse in me he will tame subdue and bring under and tell thee to thy face thou art a Satan is not this a brand plucked out of the fire Therefore friend do not thou fansie a perfect knowledge of the Crosse and yet remain a stranger to the Crosse by living out of the vertue and power of it which makes all flesh as grasse and to wither as the flower of the field It is Christ in me that is my glory and his life in me springs out of his death and mine and makes void all my glory and he by his bloud and power sets me free from the condemnation of sin and the Law and he keeps me alwayes in his eye and he searches my errours and failings out to nail them to his Crosse As for that place thou quotest 1 Joh. 1. 5 6 7 8 9. look upon it better and take the tenth verse too in thy minde and see how thou canst have sin and no sin for so the Apostle saith plainly in all the Saints there 's no sin and yet there 's sin in all otherwise we make God a lyar and his word is not in us Neither is this to plead for sin as thou sayest for there 's a vast difference between saying such a thing is and such a thing out to be That the Saints have sin is a truth written in Scripture and in every mans conscience for there is not a just man upon earth that doth good and sins not But that the Saints ought to have sin this the Scripture cries ought against and calls upon us to purge out more and more therefore be not alwayes catching and snarling this is not a Christian practice but let thy sin go thy exalting of thy self go and it may be thou mayest finde out the Crosse of Christ a little more exactly yet and learn better what it is to be Crucified with him and so mayest eat of his flesh and drink of his bloud Thou tellest me Repl. I know not the one baptisme which by the Spirit is witnessed which baptizeth into one body 1 Cor. 12. 13. in this body is no sin into it no deceit enters every sin that is committed is without the body Answ Thy prating words cannot make void my glorying in the Lord to thee I say the one spirit I have which witnesseth the one baptisme which is one in all the Sons of God bond or free The spirit is one the baptisme one the body one but the Members are different and have all need of one another and therefore ought not to murmure or make a rent because every one is not an eye an hand a tongue as thou doest and so sinnest within the body and committest fornication with thy self but a Member against the rest of the body making the body a Monster even all one Member not all the Members one body that thou thy self mightest be head and Members and all and so thou who makest a rent from Christ and a rent from his Members what doest thou but make a division in the body and commit sin within the body crying out of one Member he 's a Baptist of another he 's a Presbyter of another he 's a Prieâ—t And so thou ownest not every Member in its place and lookest not upon that baptisme which is one in all the Sons of God But when thine eye is open to see this thou wilt own a Member though low and weak and love a Member whoever he be and thou wilt seek to draw him indeed more into the Unity to rejoyce more in the Lords works than his own and yet thou wilt leave him in the variety to be usefull in his place to other Members of the body But all this thy great wisdom comprehends not And whereas thou makest as though every Member of Christ were free from all spot and sin because every sin that is committed is without the body 1 Cor. 6. 10. By body in that place is meant the outward Fabrick of every man in particular which ought
persecuted outwardly knowing that it is judgement and misery enough for God to send such strong delusions as that men should believe a lye Repl. But my heart is in the earth thou sayest Answ In the earth is not my treasure I finde all here vanity and vexation of spirit But in the Lord have I righteousnesse and strength and so my treasure being above mine heart and affections are also above Repl. But my compleatnesse is in darknesse Answ Here indeed is the compleatnesse of the world but the Lord is arising to discover this delusion and in him his light and grace is my compleatnesse fulnesse and glory Repl. But to the light which comes from the corner-stone I act contrary and fall not upon it so upon me shall it fall and grinde me to powder Answ Had thy building been upon the corner-stone thou wouldst not in disobedience have denied him to be thy foundation but wouldst by this falling upon him have been broken all to pieces and never thus weakly been sodered up again to act and work for life in thine own power and merits and so to be a Christ a Saviour unto thy self making thy self whole without the bloud of the Lamb which takes away the sins of the world But be sure for this thy disallowing of the stone which is elect and precious thou shalt stumble and fall and be ground to powder for thy disobedience whereunto also thou art appointed As for me let me alone to live and walk in the light of the Lord to be all I am in the grace and righteousnesse of Christ Jesus In my self I am broken indeed my glory is gone and I am nothing But in Christ I am whole and well and need none of mine own power and merits to save me In him I feed upon that which is good upon substance upon the best upon fatnesse and he being my foundation without and within I have an everlasting covenant of grace even the sure mercies of David This I know because he is faithfull Repl. But thou tellest me I am out of the Vnity in the one spirit in the number of the beast the number of a man who professe the Letter declared from the life which life knits the Saints in one peace and thee shall eternally torment who livest in vanity and deniest the way of peace Answ Once more look home to thy self that thou even thou be not found in this number of a beast of a man that art compleat in thy form in thy observations drawn sometimes from the Letter and sometimes from thy fancie in the mystery and yet neither Letter or meaning is any more direction to thee than will stand with thy dark minde and form Therefore see and know that the life the Scripture the Christ the peace which thou art in is not the life out of the original in the one spirit but the life and Christ and peace of form of fansie of man and so notwithstanding all thy pretended Unity and holinesse thou regardest lying vanity and art in a weary land without water As for me my endeavour is to keep the Unity of the spirit in the bond of peace with all lowlinesse and meeknesse and long-suffering forbearing all my brethren in love I know the body the spirit the calling is one the Lord the faith the baptisme is one and that there is one God and Father of all who is above all and through all and in us all A sense of all these constrains me to love the Saints in all this onenesse though in their wayes and walkings without they are divers yet in the substances of things they are all one and of one And upon this account could I freely and faithfully have communion with them preach and pray and enter into fellowship with them though by reason of their too much indulgence to their bodily exercise and outward wayes of walking they are for the most part against communion with any out of their own modell and way and so too much spirit of God I own it as a witnesse and Declaration of the Lords will and mind to man This I professe not out of the life and light of the spirit knowing that that is the living word the kernel the substance which quickens all the body and knits the Saints altogether in that one peace of God And this spirit declared in the Letter is that which keeps me from vanity and frees me from the Law of sin death and condemnation And now to the businesse of Tythes Thou sayes Repl. In my corrupt reason I am scraping up reasons to maintain Tythes but shew no Scripture Answ Here thou art at thine old trade prating and slighting but shewing little reason and yet thou goest on to teach and say Repl. To the Sons of Levi was Tyth paid for their service and the relieving the fatherlesse widdows and strangers Ans And why must not the Ministers of the Gospel have maintenance too for their service Doth the Gospel afford lesse than the Law But to let that passe Thou hast spoken a piece of truth to which I add Thou mayest finde even Levi himself paid Tythes in Abraham Heb. 7. 9. and so Tythes were paid before the Law and Levi were in being as to the Letter so that the payment of Tythes extended further than to the litteral Tribe of Levi And if Abraham and Jacob payed Tythes as it appears they did before the Law Gen. 14. 18 19 20. and Gen. 18. 22. surely they did it by a light within and this light was their Law and this is thine too sometimes though very seldom especially when to part with something from thy self and therefore art thou covetous to rob others of all their glory in inward things to advance thy self and of their property too in outward things and so thou art greedy to keep the tenth of all But to proceed Repl. Thou sayest When Christ came he put an end to that service and to the wages due to that service and that he continued Tythes to the Ministers of the Gospel by a Law that thou bid'st me prove by Scripture command or example Answ That Christ put an end to the Levitical priest-hood that I deny not But that Christ put an end to the priest-hood so as to set up no teaching in the room thereof that I deny But what or who hath he set up Answer Ministers not of the Letter but of the spirit But are your Ministers such Answer those whom Christ anoints and ordains are such for the rest I plead not But where have you Ministers that are such if the thing should be granted any command example or practice for Tythes Answer we have the light within written in the hearts of all Nations which teacheth them to pay Tythes or maintenance unto their Priests at this day this is the light of our Nation to pay Tythe unto their Ministers And this is of as much force still where it guides and rules to teach men what to do as it
the Scribes and Pharisees that these things ye ought to have done Nay that the morality ceased and a grieving part of our substance according to Gods ordination unto those that attend upon the preaching of the Gospel this thou findest to the contrary too 1 Cor. 9. 7. to 15. here then is an approbation and an ordination and yet both not sufficient to satisfie men unreasonable Further after a little more prattle thou criest out thou dark minde in the time of the first Priest-hood Tyth was not payed nor received as by any command from Caesar or from any man whatsoever but by commandment from the Lord and in this time who payed not Tythes robbed God Mal. 3. 8 9 10. here is no telling of Caesar nor any man but God himself whose the earth is and the fulnesse thereof Repl. Here thou seekest to perswade the Magistrate not to meddle with Tythes intimating he had no finger in it under the Law indeed I know that the most high ruleth in the Kingdom of men and giveth it to whomsoever he pleaseth but by whom do's he give out Laws rule and govern the world but by his own will in Magistrates and so in all ages there has been polity and government in all Nations and Magistrates chosen by men according to Gods secret instinct and direction in the hearts of men and this choice cloathed with Majesty and Authority from the Lord to maintain Laws and peace in the earth and this power under the Law was for the punishment of all offenders of the Law and so surely for the punishment of those who robbed God in any thing but what this robbing is thou canst not tell and that the Magistrate had no hand in requiring obedience to and observance of the Laws statutes and judgements of God this lies upon thee to prove which because thou canst not do therefore thou must deny the Scripture and say all the complaint was to be made to God in case of injury and oppression under the Law and so none at all unto the Magistrate yet in case of injury the Magistrate is set up thou seest for a refuge to fly unto in the earth and whereas thou sayest he who payed not Tythes robbed God the same may be said of every other command he who kept it not robbed God and the Magistrate was to require recompence or to punish for all this robbery but thy drift is fain thou wouldst have the Magistrates stand for a Cypher and take no eognizance of all the robbery that is done unto God in the Nation of all the blasphemies and unrighteousnesses of men men are not to complain to men but God and so the powers of the Nation must stand still and let all the Laws of God and man be levelled and every one ride upon the Throne of his own will this is the worlds desire indeed because they love not to be governed but all must be governours and the rule and Law must be their own will and power see here where thou art friend in the midst of the vilest and worst of the sons of men fain thou wouldst have none but God to meddle with men and with their actions dreaming though foolishly that if thou couldst escape the authority and punishment of the Laws and of the Magistrates thou couldst easily escape the authority and punishment of God but God sees what every one do's in the dark in the Chamber of his imagery and what are we or what are the Magistrates your murmurings are not against us but against the Lord he sees all the pining and fretting of every one in all this untoward generation and how 't is his goverment they shake of and a King they must have to govern them like all other Nations which is their own dream and will see where thou art and remember thou owe no man any thing but love no Rent no Custome no Tribute no Tythes love will teach thee these things are due therefore cover not anothers portion owe him nothing but love for the earth is the Lords and the fulnesse thereof Quest 4. What is that double honour which is due unto the Elder that rules well and what is the Elder and his ruling well 1 Tim. 5. 17. Answ The Elder that rules well is he that rules in the authority of God over his own will in that spirit which is contrary unto the will of the flesh and that spirit is honoured of God and all good men to whom its due and double Repl. Here 's a Christian Elder a spiritual Elder and I like him and his ruling well as one who begins in the spirit and ends in the spirit and thus the Saints are called Elders Rev. 4. 4. and 5. 5. 8 and these I finde resigning up themselves and all they have unto the Lord falling down and vvorshipping him that lives for ever casting their Crowns and all their choicest Jewels at his feet saying thou art worthy to receive glory honour and power but besides these there is a preaching Elder one anointed to be an officer and servant of the vvord of God in the Lords house and unto this Elder all both high and low that will not rebell against Christ the master must yield obedience and this Elder is mentioned and what his ruling ought to be 1 Pet. 5. 1. 2 3. and 1 Tim. 5. 17 19. and such Titus was to ordain in every City Tit. 1. 5. and this Elder is called a Bishop or Overseer Tit. 1. 7 8. how he must be qualified we there read 1 Tim. 3. 1. to 8. and thus its usual with the Apostle to call such who were to rule over the spirits of men by the power of the Word Bishops Overseers Preachers Elders those were the rulers well that laboured and took pains in the Word and Doctrine not giving heed to fables and Genealogies which minister questions doting much upon their questions and answers to their doubtfull questions whereof comes envy strife railings and evil surmisings the Elders of the Lord must be of another spirit than this questioning generation sober grave wise apt to teach nourished up in the words of faith and of good Doctrine and of good life the Elder that thus rules well though the world own him not love him not rob him accuse him condemne him yet he 's worthy of all due respect and maintenance this Elder thou art willingly ignorant of and no such thing canst thou finde in Scripture because against him and his maintenance thou art filled with indignation as being some stop to thy Kingdom and reign in the dark world Answ The rest of the answer unto this query is like the former all overspread with accusations telling me I am none of the Elders he has mentioned who am covetous conforming to the world its wayes fashions customes inventions abusing my body with cuffs ribbons unnecessaries at which my high big ranting minde may scorn c. Repl. But stay friend whence comes all this from the
though all the Members be living in him and Elected in him yet he without them is no compleat body and so no full Election and therefore as the Election takes in Christ so all the Saints of God and whereas thou sayest all that receive him wherein the Election is in him are Elected this is true if thou understand it of the manifestation of Election to us so our receiving of Christ declares to us that we are Elected and adopted of God but if thou understand it à priori of the cause and ground in God of our Election as if he had therefore Elected us because he foresaw such and such would receive Christ then thy speech savours of an old errour for this builds Election upon the foresight of merits faith and power in man to receive Christ and so it destroyes the grace of God for if Election be by grace meere grace then it is not at all upon forseen faith and works otherwise grace is no more grace read Rom. 11. 5 6 7. And so though we receive Christ because we are Elected in him Eph. 1. 4. Yet we are not therefore Elected because we do receive him all being according to the Lords good pleasure to the praise of the glory of his grace and so as 't is in the outward world there was the image or idea of every thing first mente divina in the divine minde before it came forth in the creature not first in the creature and then in the minde of God that could not be seeing the creature was not so in the spiritual world the Church things were first in God as in their ground not first in the creature and then in God and so the idea of our Election was first laid up in the Lords minde counsell grace and good pleasure not in our acting believing and receiving Christ his beloved for this no man can do till it be given and so this building Election upon our receiving Christ is a building upon the sand upon something no man where it is not not upon the Rock which is the grace and good pleasure of God and so it makes voide the nature of grace and our Election though vain man that would be wise and something cannot receive this Quest 7. What is the Covenant of works and the Covenant of grace and how ye were led out of the first and established in the second Answ The Covenant of works is that which man doth from the letter thereby to get life and the Covenant of grace is that written in the heart where Christ is the Light Life and Law-giver and by him the Law is fullfilled in us who walk no more after the flesh but after the spirit and by his light were we led out of the first and by his life were we established in the second Repl. This being a sober answer I could wish it were written in thine heart and proceeded from the life and power of that Covenant where all is written and sealed within And friend if it did so though the Letter would not be unto thee as the life yet it would never be slighted by thee being a witnesse unto the life Joh. 5. 39. much lesse would so much of the Kingdom be placed in some of the lesser observations of it when the weightier are neglected though none that live in the Kingdom will account any command of God small and much lesse yet wouldest thou make the commands of God of none effect by thy traditions neglecting the Law of faith of meeknesse of love and peace because thy ceremonies and traditions are neglected by others if you ask wherein ask thine own conscience and let that be thy witnesse and testimony in all which thou art found still walking more after the flesh then after the spirit Quest 8. What is the state of sin and wrath which all men are in and under by nature and how ye were led out of this estate Answ The state of sin is a state of condemnation and wrath from God separated in which all are by nature but by that light which is contrary to nature are we led out of this estate for he 's given to be a leader Isai 55. 4. Rep. What can poor fallen Adam or man do till God comes quickens him by a word of promise given in a spirit of power for I find the state of nature is a state of sin deadness darkness as to the things of God and the life of God wherein there 's no power to believe nor light to turn us towards God and in this estate there 's a departing from God still through unbelief and a wandring in the dark after the desires of the flesh and minde and so a separation from God and a coveting to hide our selves from his presence amongst the things that are made because we finde nothing due unto us by reason of sin and nakednesse but condemnation and wrath and so we are by nature children of wrath till the Lord in mercy and great love quicken us and raise us up through the second Adam revealed in us to live in him who is our light and life and so the onely leader of lost man out of the former state of sin and wrath and so he 's given to be a Leader and Commander by being an inward witnesse of love to us and all to free us from the Law of sin death and condemnation Quest 9. Whether any in this life are totally freed from the remnants of sin and darknesse seeing Paul saith now we know but in part and he prayed for an increase of knowledge in the Saints and Peter exhorts to grow in knowledge and Paul complains of a body of sin of a Thorn in the flesh of the lusting of the flesh against the spirit and James said in many things we offend all and John if we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us Answ In the life wherein thou livest is no redemption from sin for that is it which cannot bear good fruit Repl. To which I say I know that in me that is in my flesh dwells no good thing for the flesh is flesh still and sinfull still and cannot bring forth the fruit of God which springs from a new birth but in the life of Christ in me or that life which springs from the new birth there is redemption from sin and this is that which brings forth in me fruit to God Answ Further to the death of the Crosse must thou subject and obedient be else not know that life and birth which is free from sin Repl. What I am I am through the grace of God and this grace abounding towards me has brought over my flesh that Crosse whereby I am in measure Crucified and so have tasted and known that birth which is free from sin Answ The life of the new man who witnesses is free from sin Rom. 6. 6 7. and 18. 22. Repl. All the freedom from sin which this
Crosse both within and without is the same as he was hated persecuted crucified so are we according as 't is given unto us from our heavenly father as he was dead to his own will and alive to his fathers so are we according as we have power and life from the father given to us in all these and the like there is a similitude between Christ and his Church they are of his bone and flesh one every way so far as he and his father are pleased to lead them forth into it and this was that which Christ prayed for Joh. 17. 21. 22. and Paul spake of Rom. 8. 29. and desired to live in Phil. 3. 8. to 15. and this Iohn witnessed when he said as he is so are we in this world behold your likenesse friends all ye the Lords portion and challenge as much as ye will or can in this matter so as it flow from light and truth accompanied with humility and the fear of the Lord and ye cannot anger the Lord his spirit nor his son but withall be not high proud lofty there is a dissimilitude to as well as a likenesse between Christ and his Church First He 's the father of all God over all the fulnesse of the God-head dwells in him bodily This is no where said of the Saints though they partake of the nature of God and of the fulnesse of God according as their being can receive yet they are not the father they are not the God-head neither in fullnesse nor part no friends away with such blasphemies this is a Babylonian that sayes I am and there 's none else besides me a false Prophet that cries out I am Christ an Antichrist that sits in the Temple of God as God away with this conceit we are creatures still poor nothings drops of the bucket compared to the incomprehensible Majesty Further Christ was anointed with the Oyl of gladnesse above his fellows above measure but we are anointed in measure according to the gift of Christ we have no more than we receive by the grace of God I am what I am Further Christ knows our thoughts afar off and is acquainted with all our wayes there is not a word in my tongue but loe thou knowest it altogether Christ knew from the beginning who should betray him and he saw the thoughts and carnal reasonings of the carnal dark world but what do's poor man know though the Quaker is bolder then all his fore-fathers he knows a man as soon as ever he sees him and whether he be a Saint or a Devil though the man discover not himself by word or action yet the Quaker knows him and all that he may be as Christ is and yet the Apostle sayes what man knows the things of a man save the spirit of man which is in him 1 Cor. 2. 11. and the Apostles knew not the Traitor but they were low then and so art thou friend in this thy dream for Christ sayes ye shall know them by their fruit and ye shall know my Disciples by their love so that our knowledge of others is by observation fruits and appearances of things in the outward man or by special revelation and discovery from God otherwise all other mens spirits are in the dark to us we have not a vision of their hearts afar off we know them not before they are born we know not the way of God in their spirits till it be written upon their fore-heads and so are not as Christ is in this respect Further Christ â—lwayes spake the truth was alwayes free from errour never in the least errour nor in the least deceived where 's the man besides that can challenge this unto himself who can understand his errours though so far as we are lighted by the Candle of the Lord so far we are led out of errour and all delusions but he 's the original truth and we receive from him as he is manifested so we have the truth no farther for he 's the truth lo still a difference which should teach us all to be humble meek and low Further Christ created all things all things were made by him and without him was nothing made that was made and Christ preserves all things by him all things consist and he upholds all by the word of his power where 's the man that can appropriate this power unto himself hast thou an arm like God canst thou make a new body or quicken an image with a Soul and make life appear canst thou retain the spirit of man or beast when the Lord commands it away I know there are that will attempt miracles and wonders but all vanishes still nothing is for ever but what the Lord do's let this teach us to fear before him knowing that 't is he who made us and not we our selves we are his off-spring and by him we have life and motion and all things Further Yet Christ was the onely begotten son of God the first-born his son by nature begotten by his power and brought forth by a Virgin but we are the sons of God by grace if we speak of the Saints nature do's not make us sons but the new birth the regeneration without which there 's no entring into the Kingdom of God Further Christ he 's the husband we the spouse and though the husband and wife be one yet the head of the woman is the man I speak of Christ and his Church he 's the man the root the head still and he 's the King we the subjects he the vine we the branches he 's the Lord and Master we the servants he 's the fountain we the streams he 's the father we the sons he 's all in all we are nothing in all this I hope I do not lessen the glory of Christ the Lord nor of his Church his Saints neither do I sad the Souls of any but such as are lifted up to forget their Saviour therefore come away friends glory as much as you will and can in your greatnesse and glory there is a likenesse between Christ and Saints that they be filled with joy and rest and abundance of consolation yet withall there 's an unlikenesse to Christ is infinitely more above us all than all the men in the world above the lowest creature therefore away away with somethingnesse self-glorying this is enough for the world to be proud and high-minded but let all the Lords people be content to lose their lives themselves their excellencies gifts Crowns throw all down at the feet of the Lambe saying thou art worthy O Lord to receive glory and honour and power for thou hast created all things and for thy pleasure they are and were created and thou high big flesh that sayest thou art as Christ in this present world without the least darknesse the least sin when thou knowest not the ground why he was and could not but be without sin and no man so as he whilest in this house of clay he was
revealed them unto babes and the election has obtained the promise but the rest are hardned this is an hard saying who can bear it but the true seed and yet foolish wise man will teach God what to do thou hast indeed power to lose thy Soul but power to save it without grace and the new birth thou hast none and thou vain man who art loth to fell all away to lose that part of thy life and self which lies in the dream of thine own power to believe and freedom to embrace grace as well as to deny them now thou art in the way to lose thy life and Soul for evermore and yet still I say there 's so much power given the Creature as shall leave him inexcusable I know he who believes is led to Christ his Redeemer and the saving of his Soul is by the springing up of his life and grace in his Soul who is a vvell of water springing up into eternal life and he who believes not is a stranger to Christ the Redeemer of his Soul and this saving and losing is everlasting but still the power to believe and be saved is of God Eph. 2. 8. by grace are ye saved through faith and not of your selves it is the gift of God and as for the saving and losing of the Soul for ever if it be thy faith and thou canst bear witnesse to it as a truth thou hast seen of God why then doest thou hide thy self and mince the truth as if it were not a thing to be owned by the sons of men the rest of that answer is spent after the old form in accusations by the accuser thy father Quest 17. What is the difference between the Soul and the spirit which Paul prayes may be sanctified Answ As the spirit is received which sanctifies the difference is brought into unity and they are perfected to serve the Lord in one with the whole heart and Paul was a Minister of the word which pierceth even to the dividing asunder of Soul and spirit Heb. 4. 12. Repl. Still thou art dark about the soul or unwilling to discover thy darknesse and so thou canst say nothing or that which is little unto the question when the spirit is received which sanctifies thou sayest the difference is brought into Unity and they are perfect in one yet still to us there 's soul and spirit and this spirit in us is not the spirit of God which sanctifies as thou dreamest as if the spirit Paul speaks of were the spirit of God which sanctifies the soul of man and so brings the soul into Unity with it self no friend Paul speaks not of Gods spirit which is holinesse it self but of a spirit which needs sanctification and between this spirit in man and the soul of man it seems there is a difference and therefore he prayes that both may be sanctified but this difference thou knowest not I know the soul is a spiritual thing and cannot be divided into parts and powers as being one single entire essence but unto us there 's the understanding part the minde the eye of the soul the seat of reason and light and the will which is the observer of the minde looking to be taught by it as a power obedient and willing to act as it directs counsels and commands and there 's the inferior parts the appetite desire affections which are as perturbations and motions in the soul leading it out into love joy anger peace fear or the like all these as sanctified by the Lords spirit are brought into this Unity to be all servants unto his minde and will and this spirit of the Lord as 't is received more or lesse so it more or lesse ends the quarrel between God and us in the lusting of our spirits and souls against God and makes peace and brings all into Unity and so is that word which pierces even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit this drives away the ignorance vanity weaknesse and enmity which is in the highest and purest part of mans soul his minde which is usually taken for the spirit called the spirit of the minde Eph. 4. 23. and called the eye and light of man the spirit of the Lord opens and heals this of all its blemishes and distempers and so gives an eye to see and an heart to understand by enlightning the eye of the minde which is called the spirit as that which looks over all and over-rules all in the soul of man Further the word or spirit of God takes away the stubbornesse frowardnesse and hardnesse of the will and bowes this to follow the light sprung up in the minde and so heales that power too which I look upon as belonging still to the spirit of the Soul Further the Lord likewise rectifies the judgement and the conscience and takes away by degrees all erroneousnesse wandring and fear and guilt here too and so gives a sound judgement and a clear conscience and the Lord takes away the sottishnesse foolishnesse sinfulnesse and manifold distempers of the thoughts and imaginations that spring up in the fancie of man and of the desires and longing after earthly vanities that spring up in the appetite which is an inferior power in the Soul and of the affections which are the motions and goings out of the Soul into love hatred delight sadnesse pleasure grief hope despair fear boldnesse anger and the like all which as common to man and beasts more sensible unto us are usually called the Soul and taken for the Soul I say these inferior faculties which are usually taken for the Soul as being the discoverers of the Soul more sensibly unto us all these these the Lord heales makes holy and pure for himself by his word and so separating things that differ and uniting all in an onenesse with himself he makes unity peace and harmony in all the higher and lower powers of the Soul and so to summe up things and a little farther to discover this noble power of the Soul 1. There 's the mind that 's the seat of light reason and understanding 2. There 's the will that 's the seat of action obedience and doing either good or evil 3. There 's the judgement that 's the seat of discerning and trying things 4. There 's the conscience that 's the book of all the good and evil we do 5. There 's the memory that 's the seat of Arts and Sciences of all that we so discern feel and know 6. There 's that which they call the common sense as a power which has an influence upon all the outward senses and carries as it were from the Soul seeing hearing tasting smelling and touching into all the five senses 7. There 's the fancie that 's the seat of all the innumerable thoughts and imaginations that spring up in the heart of man and this is the seat of all the Quakers dreams and high thoughts of themselves and mean thoughts of others and of many the precious
and is at a losse in himself then Christ begins to be seen and then Christ is sweet and then he 's the onely Tree out of which life grows and so the Souls feed upon him who is that meat which perisheth not sealed by the father Further thou sayest the Tree of life comes down from heaven which is the hidden Manna and is the new name which none can know but he that hath it Repl. The Tree of life thou sayest comes down from heaven then he is not surely in the natural maâ—â—s thou sometimes dreamest if thou have this Tree in thee this liviâ—g Tree in thee why doest thou not declare him and tell us how hâ—â— the Manna and what the eating is Thou must answer nothing new no reason of thy faith hope but if these things were written in â—â—y spirit in deed and truth thou wouldest surely know that one maâ—â— end why they are given is that we might declare them Furthâ—â— thou sayest the hidden Manna the white stone the new name onely such as overcome have fed on read and know Rev. 2. 17. And yet thou in thy busie minde must needs be enquiring about it thou who art in the bondage of corruption scraping up Scriptures for sin darknesse to remain in man whil'st he is upon the earth that art an enemy to Christ the Tree of life who scoffes at yea and nay his doctrine c. Repl. All this surely do's not declare what Eden is or Paradise is or the Tree of life or the hidden Manna or the white stone or the new name unto all which thou wouldest fain pretend a peculiar interest by thine own overcoming yet canst not declare thy self surely friend if thou sawest the Lord and didst indeed abide in his presence thy foolish nature would not thus appear still in power wert thou in the light and joy of Paradise feeding upon God in thy self and upon God in every thing that is made surely thou couldest not scoffe at any truth of God and call it a scraping up of Scriptures because the Scriptures shew man his manifold errours and infirmities and so thou couldest not deny plain light written in Scripture and every mans experience that knows himself Didst thou know the Tree that the overcomer eats of surely thou wouldst not thus lye down to the Serpents power didst thou live in the Lord and feed upon the Lord who is the Paradise and Tree of life both surely thou wouldest see God in thy fellow-servant and not smite him or murmur because the Lord bears another company besides thy self for surely there 's enough in God for us all And did'st thou know the hidden Manna eat of it this would surely sweeten thine heart make thee forget the bitterness that comes through thy lips didst thou know the pure image the divine nature didst thou see this springing up in thee as a seal of life to thee surely thine heart would not thus retain the old hardnesse the old language having nothing written upon it but the name of the old man though the poor old man know it not or will not see it and so to summe up this and to leave a word or two with thee The Garden of Eden is every where where the Lord is manifested Paradise is the fulnesse and joy that grows up out of this manifestation the Tree of life is God in Christ manifested seen and know the eating is the feeding and living in our spirits upon the verâ—â—â—â— and excellencies as of God who bids all his friends eat and drink abundanâ—â—â— and the hidden Manna is the sweetnesse and inward nourishment the souâ—â—inds in God and the white stone is the purity and reality of the divine naturâ— in us and the new name written upon the stone is the Name of God the natuâ—â— minde will judgment of God the fullnesse of God let out according to oâ—â— measure into our hearts which shews to us the things that are freely given to â—s of God declares us in our experiences to be his Sons Daughters all these things are one in substance in the root being but the new man sprung up in us to bring us into Paradise and joy onely unto us thereis a variety of operations and administrations all which as we overcome so we are acquainted with Quest 25. What is the bottomlesse pit and the smoake that arises from thence and the darkning of the Sun and aire by the smoake and the locusts which came out of the smoake which John saw Answ When thou art come to the sound of the 5. Angels then thou wilt know see the bottomlesse pit out of which comes all the Sorceries Witchcrafts and Enchantments which deceive the Nations Repl. It seems thou hast heard the sound of the 5. Angels and yet hast not seen the Star fallen from Heaven unto the earth and so hast not heard the right sound if thou hast declare it neither hast thou seen the bottomlesse pit and so beholdest not the Sorceries Witch-crafts and Enchantments which come from thence neither the infatuations and strong delusions which God in wrath has given yee up unto and all your brethren in all other dark forms and superstitious vanities those delusions errours idols sins wickednesses abominations which spring up in such a variety abroad in the Nations hast thou not seen neither how all these grow up out of one original the bottomlesse pit of the angry wrathfull Kingdom of Lucifer thy father who has still been soaring up to Heaven but is still cast down unto the earth and the elect seed he cannot he must not deceive totally and finally and yet ought they alwayes to be upon their watch waiting upon their Bridegrom as knowing their own pronenesse unto evil but all yee who are secure and lofty perfect in your observations and imaginations that yee have never so much as a wandring thought prevailing much lesse sin appearing either in your lives or tongues even like your forefathers the Ranters whom yee own not in words but yet in spirit as they are pure holy undefiled in all things so are yee as they are reconciled to all things so are yee and as all that they speak is righteous altogether so all that comes from your idle lips and so yee as they are totally free from all remnants of the old Adam even ye poor wretches are thrown down into all the saddest and strongest â—â—â—usions of the evil one being down as it were at the bottom of the botâ—â—â—lesse pit perverting betraying and deceiving your selves and others with the dream of your high knowledge wisdom righteousnesse 〈◊〉 gifts high lights perfect attainments being found in all the steps 〈◊〉 the Pharisees Jews Priests Elders and Rulers of old who denied and crucified the Lord of glory And when yee pretend most love to Christ within and his light within even then ye most deny and grieve him trampling under your feet the Lord that bought yee making but a