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A89832 Deceit brought to day-light: in an ansvver to Thomas Collier, vvhat he hath declared in a book called, A dialogue between a minister, and a Christian: but by his fruits hee is tryed and found to be neither. In which answer his lies are returned for the founder to prove; his errors laid open, read, and reproved, and he found to be the same in deeds which he accuses the Quakers to be in words. / Published in short for the souls sake, that the simplicity may bee preserved from the subtilty, lest any should believe lies, and so be given up to delusion, and bee damned, by a lover of truth, called, James Naylor. Naylor, James, 1617?-1660. 1656 (1656) Wing N269; Thomason E885_5; ESTC R202981 17,493 32

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should guide the tongue and thereto would limit God for ever as to matter of converting of people thou must needs cast out trembling who excludes the Word and in Isa the 66. 5. Thou mayest read thy generationand thy work and thy judgement also and what thou knows or trembling is seen by what thou knows of the Word It would be thy wisdom to stop thy mouth and speak not evil of that thou knows not thou may long read the letter and call that the word with thy lying spirit ere thou know what the trembling is of Gods people such thou hates as did thy generation in all ages Thou proceeds tell of great things in thy imaginations from the letter and tells of a state of general reconciliation which all the world is recovered to though not redeemed from any curse and tells of a twofold reconciliation and a twofold redemption and many such things in thy confused minde which the Scriptures knows not but knows not one redemption thy self but art a servant of satan in lyes and false accusations against the innocent such a redemption the Devil can profess as stands in words from the Letter without power and life had there been no Letter such a profession would have been as is your practice Thou goes about to describe who are the daughters of Babylon and thou concludes all who come in after the Jewish rites sprinking or dipping Infants being exercised in Romish Ordinances c. These are Rome's daughters though they cry Out Harlot against their mother I say go one step higher and take in your own tradition which is neither according to letter not spirit neither in call manner nor end as I have divers times proved and am ready to do as occasion is offered and as it is with theirs out of the true form so is it out of the true power of godliness and brings forth the same fruits with the world if not worse so that if any will own you for Saints onely because you have been two or three times dipped or sprinkled in the water more then others have bin then they may have such Saints enough who do make dipping so many times some twice some thrice as a god and ground of salvation and of union but further then that doth differ you from the world they shall never see any thing of a godly conformity and denying the world's customes or conscientious walking whereby you shall be known from other men unless it be that you have got more subtilty to oppose the truth being as the head of the image got a little higher then the rest but as enviously wicked and bloody as any is this day in the Nations and would as gladly stir up persecution had you but power as some of your prime Teachers have said to some in Authority that he had rather a Law was made to take away his life then that we should bee suffered and at this day are you scattered throughout the Nation by your letters to rake up what filth you can to cast upon the children of light And if thou say thou art clear then let this heap of lies out of thy book be witness against thee which were they true might serve to take away our lives by the Law of the Nation yea such a heap of wickedness as if hell had been raked to bring it up to cast upon us of which we are clear before God but you being a people who have declined your principle of a tender conscience above all others so you who have done it must needs exceed all others in mischief and hatred against such as retain God in their consciences and dare not sin against him casting all manner of evil report on tender consciences as because we cannot bow to your filthy pride and respect of persons and give flattering titles to the spirit of exaltation in a proud man or woman therefore by you we are accused as Pharisees and that we destroy relations and deny civil courtesie as in this thy Book when we deny but the devils pride and if we take heed to our words and by that which is pure of God in our consciences order them according to the sound words of Christ Jesus and the Scriptures then we strain at a gnat and swallow a Cammel so that to speak in the fear of God and in sound words such that cannot be reproved is a great offence to thee and the cammel we swallow is because we go not so often into the water as you do in observance to your tradition which is neither in power nor form of Iohn's ministration whom you would imitate when you that go into the water come out as full of pride envy covetousness and all manner of wickedness as you go in and the Devil hardned in many of you in lying against the truth onely thereby being conceited that your sins are washed away though when you are proved none more impudent and brazened in their wickedness then you are witness the heap of lies in thy book which the heathen that never had profession would be ashamed so falsly to utter as will be seen now when thou art put in plainness to prove them Nay were you not stark blinde and drunk with rage against the truth you might once look back see your selves and what you are doing and how you have dealt with the Lord who once had betrusted a measure of simplicity to some of you which kept you tender which you have betrayed above all people in the Nation was there not a time when you durst not have conformed to the world pride and filthy manners their fashions and customs now maintained their false worships was it not once with you that you could not use the worlds Language as to their corruption therein upheld and that out of tenderness of conscience Was there not once in you a principle against lying and false accusing and perfection for conscience sake Then was you hated of the world as you now joyne with the world to hate us and belye us nay what thing is it now that your conscience will strain at but you can swallow rather then suffer persecution reproach or loss of gain Have not you been witness against the Ministry of the Nations to be of the whore and their tythes and hire till a great part of the most eminent of you be got into the same living out of which you have thrust them let England and Ireland witness though I wil not say you are all guilty in this particular for all have not been proved therein but with what a face you can at this day call the Ministery of the Nations whorish and then take the benefit of it your selves or maintain it in others lest you should suffer the cross of Christ let all who have the use of a good conscience judge And you who can swallow all this and much more that might be named contrary to your faith as you call it and once contrary to your conscience
of Saints And this letter of the Scripture or Apostles writing I deny to be the man Christ Iesus and that it is not the Spirit thy self confesses in pag. 22. in these words where thou sayest to say that the Scripture is Spirit that discovers much ignorance and indeed such look upon it with an idolatrous eye and sayeth further that the Spirit of God is alwayes distinguished from the Scripture My own I prove thus The Man Christ Jesus ascended but the Letter of the Apostles did not ascend nor could before it was written for then it was no letter Again if the writings of the Apostles be the man Christ Iesus then we have part of him visible here on earth and part is lost which few will say Again the visible part of the Apostles writings is paper and ink but so is not the visible part of the man Christ Jesus more might be said which plainly proves that the Apostles writing is not the man Christ Jesus and thou hast confessed they are not the Spirit and yet thou affirms them to bee the absolute rule of Saints and way of conversion so as God may not convert any but by them which he hath said of nothing but Christ himself so that if thou have not set up an absolute rule that is not Christs's and bound God to work by and all people to believe in a way of conversion and salvation that is not Christ neither in flesh nor spirit as is cleerly proved let the truth in all consciences judge and see if the liar bee not fallen into the pit he hath digged for the innocent Further let the wise judge if thou have not hereby concluded all damned who have lived and dyed since the Apostles time and have not heard the Letter written by the Apostles for if all that have been are or shall be converted since the Apostles time must be by their writings then who hath not their writings cannot be converted nor brought to God Thus hath thou limited God to a Bible to convert by and condemned all that have not one or heard one and with such blinde stuff thou goes on to discover our errors but cannot see thy own blindness Further thou hast set up a new way of converting souls then by which Abraham and Enoch and the holy men of God was converted and hath bound God to it for they was not converted by the writings of the Apostles before they was or they that writ them and so art laying another foundation then was preached to Abraham and was the soundation of the Prophets and Apostles who was converted before the letter of the Apostles was and so art he thou tells on who art preaching another Gospel and accursed And now that I have proved thee one who art setting up another way to salvation that is not Christ setting up one to rule that is not Christ and so art Antichrist I shall charge thee therewith till thou repent and shall add this thy false doctrine to the rest of thy lies by which I deny thy spirit to be of God thy book thy lies thy confusion thy feigned words and thy antichristian doctrine and all thou sayest I do declare to proceed from the Spirit of the false Prophet the lyar and slanderer and one that goes about to set up a way and rule absolute which is not Christ and so another Gospel and foundation and no modesty can blame me for charging thy false doctrine upon thy head being first thus plainly proved and haddest thou thus proved before thou had slandered thou had shewed more of Gods wisdome and less of thy own wickedness but the lyar hath been thy tongue for lies like a bow with which thy bowels must be filled yet canst thou not enter the truth but thy arrows are driven back on thy own head And as that spirit of lies hath its enmity against Christ and would set up another so it doth oppose his light which is the light of the world and thou heaps up a deal of confusion to disprove the witness that Iohn bare of Christ Iohn 1. 9. who saith This is the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world and this light Iohn came to bear witness unto that all men through him might believe vers 7. and this he saith was in the beginning and Christ saith Iohns witness was true Ioh. 5. 33. but saith the lyar that is but the common natural light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world and is not able to lead to God and thus they who likes thy testimony better then Iohn's or Christ's they may believe thee and deny Christ and his Ministers blinde guides how are you like to tell what the light will do or not do who have been opposers of it ever since it was preached but hath not followed it to the end are you like to know whether it leads did you ever follow it at all if so what evil hath it led you to you confess it reproves and manifests sinne and doth not the apostle preach this for the light of Christ Eph. 5. 13 14. but you have an imagination that Christ is the light onely to inlighten you that call your selves believers but who must inlighten the rest Christ saith I am the light of the world he doth not say I am the light of such a form or such a people who are of a self-separation but I am the light of the world he that followes me shall have the light of life but you who never followed it saith there is not life in following it so your blinde testimony who were enemies to the light of the world stand against the testimony of Christ and the children of light John 8. 12. But saist thou if this be true that Christ lighteth every one that cometh into the world which light being taken heed unto will lead to God then Christ died in vain and in vain hath he said I am the way the truth and the life which is as much as if thou had said if Christ be the light of the world which lighteth every one which cometh into the world and leads to God in vain did hee come into the world to testifie the same in preaching and suffering without which it could not have been manisest and believed But your blindness hath been so cleerly laid open and the light proved even that which is the light of the world to be the way to the Father the truth and the life as I need not say much to thy blinde opposition onely take these two Scriptures and shame with thy blindness who would perswade people that the light of the world is not the way the truth and the life or that there is any other way but the light of the world Joh. 8. 12. Joh. 14. 6. if these be one then art thou blinde and if not one then how should thou speak truth who said I am the light of the World the way the truth and the life
when it was not seared Is it like that we should be owned by you in making conscience of every word or can you do any otherwise but abhor it who have thus made shipwrack in your selves and this is the fruits you have brought forth since you have set your selves against the Light of the Spirit which led into tenderness and have set up the Letter for the Light and so being become heart-blinde are you grown past feeling into open lying and wickedness as at this day it is seen and lamented And now do not say this is railing accusation and hard terms which is truth but let the light of Christ which you thus hate search your hearts and pass judgement upon you and own it before the Lord and all the world and give praise to the Son from whom the Light comes for you have nothing else will let you see your hearts and the desperate wickedness that lodgeth therein it 's the light that must search it out and reveal it to you and not the Letter you may read in the Letter what deceit was in other mens hearts but it must be within you that lets you see your own the eye of God it is must let you see and search the dark corners thereof which is desperate wicked and you know it not but by the light of the world which lets all the world see their deceits who doth but minde it which light is that the God of this world hates and above all would blind that eye for which end all his instruments are now at work as is manifest to make shipwrack of Faith that is held in a pure conscience and you in the head thereof of which you must repent and returne to you first tenderness wherein you was once growing out of the elements and rudiments of the world to be led by the spirit of the Lamb where ever he goes and not by shadows which are left desolate because of the wickedness of such as have lived therein and look upon circumcision for the continuance whereof the Jewes had more from the Letter then you have for your way of carnal water for it was said it should be a sign for ever but so was it not said of Water-baptism but the contrary and minde what a generation was left in circumcision when Christ led out by his Spirit from that Ordinance a company of envious murtherers lyars and false accusers who set themselves against the way and light of Christ to devour all that followed his light against whom they pretended the Letter and thought they did right and so do to this day and were you not wholly blinde you might read your selves herein and what hath befallen you since you set your selves to this work every day hardness and more blindeness till you be much more mad in mischief then they was and more blinde for they fought against the Light because it led out of their traditions which was after the letter but yon oppose the light when it leads to the sound words in the letter and calls it Pharisaical and self-righteousuess or any filthy Name to make it odious and abhors it if it be but done in following the Spirit so that to follow the spiritual Light of Christ is abhorred by the devil and his instruments though it be in that which they confess is proper and used in the letter which they say is their Word witness thy 57. and 58. pages And yet with all this wickedness and blindness and much more the like unchristian carriage in your fore-head would you binde all to fall down to your tradition you have set up and worship that or else no Christians nor salvation but all the filth of hell must be raked up and cast upon their godly conversation for no other thing but because we cannot cry up that for salvation which cannot save you witness how you are saved from these wickednesses who worship before it further then in your imaginations believing that obeying that Ordinance as you call it you must be saved from hell when you are dead but to be saved from these wicked wayes while you live you never believe nor doth your god teach any such faith so they that are blinde may deny the leading of Christ in Spirit and follow your shadow which can neither save you nor them But if you would have all to worship what you have set up your called ordinance let it appear to all men what is therein mighty to save Is there some betterness betwixt being a captive to the devil in sin under your water and being a captive to sin under the Parish-Teachers water being both out of the true way declared in Scripture only yours a little nearer in the letter but both one in Spirit Power led captive at his wil who rules in them you who are disobedient to the spiritual Light of Christ wil your water save you more then theirs when you both are unwashed from your sin and live in rebellion against God doth your Ordinance then save you But doth it not appear to all the children of light that you are in the state of the Jews who cryed the Temple the Temple when God was deparred then they that was left in it was become abominable to God that which was the house of God formerly was then become a den of thieves and murderers and liars yet was they as zealous for their Ordinances as you are for your water and had as plain Scripture yea and their Ordinances was in the right form and call whereas yours are not as any of the Saints did ever practice in Scripture declared so if you be not stark blinde read your selves and repent and think not to say The Ordinances the Ordinances when you are both out of form and power for if we must believe you for so saying why not the Priests also who cry the same with you both taken on without true form life or power this we may not do who have heard and learned of Christ But this I say to thee and the rest that are joined with thee herein If he be a God you would have us all to bow to let us see what a God he is whether it be the God of Righteousness or the God of this world and Deceit first let us see that by your Ordinances thou thy self be led to repentance and to confess all thy damnable heap of lies thou hast cast on us in thy book in envie against the light and that as openly as thou hast slandered also repent of thy false Doctrine I have proved which thou hast published and decline thy errors therein And all the rest of you deny your selves and the world and conform to Christ leave your filthy pride and covetousness and abominable conformity to men of corrupt mindes for advantage respecting mens persons and maintaining their abominable worships and worshippers therein And you that say you are Ministers prove your selves in all things as the Ministers of Christ in
watchings in fastings in wandrings hunger and nakedness having no certain dwelling place in tumults often in necessities in stripes in whipping mocking stoning and imprisonment c. Let us see if it be your manner to dispute in the Idols-Temple against their Idols-worship that deceives souls and preach in the streets and markets daily c. and all this freely without hire These are the Apostles wayes and this is the Apostles word let us see if you be converted according to it and that your God is the same theirs was and will carry you forth in the same way and work and that you dare trust him therein And as we see you in the Apostles works so we shall be engaged to believe that you are converted by their Word which was before the letter was and the light thereof in all consciences will confess to you and that this is the living God whose wayes is righteous that you preach for all to worship and then we shall own you and the Apostles words will own you and your practice but where you are now we cannot nor can we worship with you that for God that which cannot save you from that wicked lying spirit that acts you nor lead you into the same work that it hath done all his Ministers in all ages for we know that God whose Word is Righteousness and his wayes Truth and what Ordinances he sets up that will we worship in for those Ordinances are spiritual and have life in them wherein God dwells and in them by him we shall be kept And the clear water we know wherein our bodies are washed and the blood of cleansing and the bread of life which was broken for us and is given to us by which we live and own the Apostles practices to follow Christ in our measures for which we are counted the off-scouring of all things unto this day and till then think not that we shall worship your tradition which brings forth a lye that cannot save the Founder for that wherein God dwells not is but a likeness empty and so your practice proves your way whereof it is Surely in vain do you setup Idols the Lord is risen your carved Images are lighter then vanity All the idols of the heathen are void of Righteousness truth is wanting in their inward parts they have deckt them with colours they have covered them with words they cry Come bow and worship but doth not consider that a lye is in there right hand there is none that considereth once to say in himself What is this that I am doing What profit is there in that to which I fall down is this the living God for whom I am thus contending that is not able to plead for himself and defend himself with righteousness with judgement and equity to plead against his enemies in their own hearts that cannot strike thorow the loynes of his adversaries cover me with innocency and peace while he covers his Enemies with confusion Is this he whose Word endureth for ever from generation to generation who hath left me to seek counsel in the Letter and without his Spirit and to consult with men how to keep up his Ordinances and to go to carnal weapons to avenge him on them who cast down his Altars who cut down his Groves and declares against the way of his worships Oh foolish people is this he that pleads the cause of his people who cannot plead for himself in Judgement nor for you in Righteousness Let him put spiritual weapons into your hands let him fill your hearts with Righteousness and your wayes with equity let him cover you with innocencie and preserve you in patience till he have made your light to shine in darkness that therewith he may confound his Enemies let him cause truth to spring in the earth and faith to bud and blossom that righteousness may cover you from the storm and the effect thereof may be peace then shall all your Enemies be ashamed and confounded before you for his power shall pass before you to make the earth to tremble at his presence whom the carnal sees not let it be proclaimed before him The Lord our righteousness gracious and full of mercy whose eye goes thorow the world and who will by no means clear the guilty And if this be the Name of your God let it be written upon you let the Zeal thereof be as a mark in your fore-heads and his sighteousness upon you as a Brest-plate that all may say this is the Lord bow before him there is no other who maketh his people lights in whom he holds forth salvation and healing to the Nations Surely this is the Lord and this is work and to him shall the world bow and his Saints confess his Name for ever Verily in the Lord our God is salvation strength Righteousness is thy right Name Judgement goes before thy face to confound thine Enemies thy light is as a fire to consume the wicked and by the same is thy Word declared therewith thou sends the rich away empty but the poor thou satisfies with goodness everlasting thou hides thy way from the subtil that thou mayest set the Prisoner out of the Pit that he may possess the gates of his Enemies and go in and out and feed in safety thou makes him strong that was feeble but strikes through the loins of the wicked thou dries up the depths of the sea that thy ransomed ones may pass over Our enemies sees and are troubled rage hath seised upon them in travells they are with mischief they are pained to bring forth and their birth is a lye Their son cannot save them they have brought forth darkness and folly Counsel and peace is not in him therefore they stagger in Judgement but thou Lord God gives us light as in the beginning the ancient of dayes is our stability things of many generations hast thou set before us the foundation that is unmoveable is discovered therein thou hast set us as upon a Rock so that the Floods of the ungodly cannot move us thou hast lifted up an Ensigne and the Heathen are angry the pride of the Nations hath gathered against thee thou hast set up judgment against them in the streets of wickedness and hath sent out the Lamb amongst the Beast of the field upon his head thou hast placed a defence thou hast covered him with righteousness as with a garment thou hast covered thy Enemies with thick darkness and their Armies with a cloud they grope at noon-day thou hast smitten the horse with blindness and his rider with madness they have risen up against thee they are confounded they are driven back their arm hath failed and thou savest thy people with a mighty salvation the meek sees it and rejoice it glads the soul of the innocent to see thee Praise our God in the beauty of holiness all that are come to the peaceable habitation Sing unto the Lord a new Song you people of good understanding who knows the root of righteousness where it springs and are fed with the dew of heaven whose hearts the Lord hath opened for himself that he may fill you with goodness that you may bring forth as a watered garden that the Lord may take delight in his own and dwell in you for ever The End