suffer then Christ did not so suffer If you flie to the purpose of the punisher which was different in Christ and his members and thinke there to succour your selfe you come to short the purpose of God in Christes afflictions as I haue shewed by the Scriptures was farre more fauourable and honourable in Christ then it can bee to any of the elect And therefore Gods purpose in Christes punishment will far der free him from hell paines then it will any of the faithfull The proportion of the pain which Christ suffered the inward peace of the sufferer will proue the same For where the paines of hell exceed the patience of men and Angels and are no way possible to bee suffered in the weaknesse of our mortall bodies the measure of Christes paine was so proportioned to the strength of his flesh that it neither ouerwhelmed his life nor his patience And though his sweate were like bloud in his earnest prayer and Agonie yet no Scripture decideth whether that were for paine feare or zeale and that dured but a while in the Garden where as after when his afflictions and paines were at sorest he shewed no signe of shrinking either at the torments of his body or at the affliction of his minde but as the Apostle saith For the ioy set before him endured the Crosse and despised the shame not wearied nor fainting in minde but with most perfect obedience and quiet patience persisting to the ende This conflict betweene paine and patience to serue Gods glorie and obey Gods will Christ proposeth to all his members on the same condition that it was offered to his humane nature To him that ouercommeth saith he will I giue to sit with me in my throne euen as I ouercame and â—…it with my Father in his throne As for the consequents of hell paines it is so brutish blasphemie to affirme them of Christ that I forbeare to obiect them I haue often named them and you say you abhorre such blasphemies as well as â—… doe that Christ so suffered hell paines But Sir you your friends must shew by the Scriptures that God hath seuered these consequents I meane reiection reprobation confusion malediction diction desperation and such like from the true paines of hell The Scripture proposeth them as necessarie and infallible consequents to the true paines of hell You will seuer them because otherwise Christ must either not suffer the true paines of hell which euerteth all your new Doctrine or he must also suffer these which the Scriptures annexe to the true paines of hell If you confesse the first that Christ did not suffer the true paines of hell the Question is well ended If you seuer these consequents from the true paines of hell shew by what authoritie of sacred Scriptures you doe it and then you may be excused from lewd and wicked presumption For if God by his word reuealed hath ioyned them together you doe or should know what sacriledge it is for your pleasure to pull them in sunder Let your Reader therefore iudge whether you can be quited from the one except you shew good warrant for the other which as yet you neither haue done nor offered to doe Your selfe graunt expresly that the wrath of God is hell indeede onely it causeth hell to be cruell yea you grant it to be sharper then hell So that we see hereby how vainely you say out of this proposition Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God for sinne I shall neuer conclude ergo he suffered the true paines of hell I haue here shewed you I trust that this followeth well seeing the wrath of God which Christ felâ—… in his spirit was his right and proper wrath albeit he suffered not all nor the whole wrath of God nor euery part thereof iust as the damned doe Here you see your full purpose is to conclude that Christ suffred for vs the true paines of hell though it hath beene your policie to conceale so much from the Reader all this while And indeede howsoeuer you dissemble it because you can no way prooueit The death of Christes soule and the true paines of hell or of the Damned are the maine markes which you shoote at though you closely carie it in other termes which are more generall and ambiguous as the wrath of God and the punishment of sinne to keepe your Reader from discouering your foolish reasons and reiecting your wicked deuices But cough vp your conceites freely and wander not thus about a wood of words to shew your contentious spirit or at least to hide your hatefull mysteries Here you haue shewed you trust that it followeth well seeing the wrath that Christ felt in his spirit was right and proper wrath You haue shewed vs what you intend but neither here nor else where doe you shew by what grounds of reason and trueth you can inferre it Christ suffered proper wrath and that in spirit you say You neuer went about to define or describe what proper wrath is much lesse haue you any way prooued that which Christ suffered to be proper wrath And now on the sudden you bend vp your bristles and boast you haue shewed that Christ suffered the true paines of hell But by what Scriptures I pray you haue you shewed it or by what Fathers Or if you haue neither of those to deriue your doctrine from what groundes of reason haue you produced for it You haue roued ignorantly confusedly and absurdly at the sufferings of mans soule you haue filled our eares with certaine new phrases of proper verie and right wrath and vengeance for sinne but first and last you haue proued nothing nay I see not so much as any offer of proofe but a bolde proiect of trifles and termes to support your errors But I grant expresly that the wrath of God is hell Hauing shewed by sundrie Fathers the verie page before that the wrath of God is often taken for the effects thereof and so for any punishment which God inflicteth for sinne I granted that hell and all the â—…orments there mightiustly be called the wrath of God because they are t the sharpest effects of Gods wrath against sinne What conclude you thence ergo euerie effect or degree of Gods wrath is hell If you clamper vs such conclusions you are fitter to ring a bell than to write a booke What shew of reason hath this illation of yours The wrath of God is applied to all the paines and punishments of sinne and so by consequent to hell as to the greatest vengeance that God taketh of men or diuels for sinne Will you hence inferre hell is the greatest punishment of sinne ergo hell is all the punishment that God inflicteth for sinne or whatsoeuer God inflicteth for sinne is hell By this Logike a rotten tooth a gowtie toe a broken head or a lame legge are the true paines of hell and all men liuing and dying are in the paines of hell But you will create vs
at his death as all his life long had both a body and a perfect reasonable and humane soule indued with all the powers affections and infirmities of mans nature saue sinne and the corruption of sinne yet is it no consequent with Ambrose that Christs soule was made of a woman as his flesh was nor that Christ died the death of the soule when his body died on the Crosse. Let them doubt saith Ambrose of that which the Prophet saith my soule hateth your new Moones and Sabboths This that is testified in the Gospel therefore the Father loueth me because I lay downe my soule to take it againe they can not refute to bee spoken of the proprietie of the soule when as it is spoken of the Lords death and resurrection The bodie of Christ could not die but by laying downe his soule as also it could not rise to life but by taking it againe So that both Christes death and his resurrection doe cleerely prooue that he had a true soule as Ambrose noteth which by his death was seuered from his body and by his resurrection was assumed againe into his body And yet that death was proper to Christs body and not to his soule though the soule felt the smart and sting thereof as well before as when it departed from his body Corpus est quod amit tit animam amittendo fit mortuum it a mortui vocabulum corpori competit Porro si resurrectio mortui est mortuum autem non aliud est quà m corpus corporis erit resurrectio It is the body saith Tertullian that looseth the soule and by loosing it dieth so that the word dead agreeth to the body Now if the resurrection be of that which was dead and nothing can be dead besides the body Resurrection must likewise pertaine to the body This death and this resurrection I meane of the body was found in Christ yours is very strange to Ambrose and to all the Fathers Per quam nisiper corporis mortem mortis vincula dissoluit By what other death saith Ambrose then by the death of the body did Christ breake the bands of death Thus haue you spent your great store of Fathers with small successe and though you dissemble where you borrowed them yet you dissemble not your excessiue bragging of them as if they were cleane against me and for you in the chiefest point of this question where indeede you doe but reach after a word in them here and there and that not rightly conceaued or not rightly translated from whence you would faine inferre your fansies saue that neither the grounds of trueth nor learning will beare you out in your conclusions That Christs sufferings did belong to bodie and soule the Fathers affirme whether by Sympathie or without Sympathie they say nothing much lesse that Christ suffered in minde distinctly from soule or bodie Nazianzene saith he assumed mans mind at his incarnation that thereby he might sanctifie it besides him not one of your places so much as nameth the minde As for Gods immediate hand punishing the soule of Christ in his passion if you should fast till you find that in these or any other Fathers you should fast not fourtie dayes but yeares And as though these were not falsities enough to loade the Fathers with you hoyse vp the top sayle of vntrueth and flant it out that these Fathers say Christ suffered all these paines which els we should haue suffered and was spared in nothing plainely belying your Authors which say no such thing and out-facing your Reader as if his sight did not serue him to seuer your shamefull additions from the texts of those ancient writers Cyrill sayth Christ suffered all things that is all naturall and innocent infirmities and passions of bodie and soule as Cyrill explaineth himselfe in the same Chapter yea in the close of the very same sentence to whose words you adde of your owne WHICH els we should haue suffered Only you ioyned them at first so cunningly to Cyrils sentence hauing two parts that a man could not readily tell to which you referred this addition saue that now in the recapitulation of your proofes you apparantly tie them to the former For if you made Cyrill to say Christ suffered to free vs from all which els we should haue suffered that assertion is verie true onely these last words are yours and not Cyrils If you make him to say Christ suffered all which els we should haue suffered this hath neither trueth in it nor any colour in Cyrils text Ierome indeede saith Christ suffered that which we ought to haue suffered meaning what Christ suffered was due to vs and not to him but Ierome is farre from your all which els we should haue suffered Your sleight then in collecting your conceits from the Fathers sayings is woorth the obseruing Nazianzene sayth Christ in his incarnation assumed mans mind to sanctisie it Cyrill saith Christ SVFFERED ALL the infirmities and passions of mans nature Ierome sayth That which was due to vs for our sinnes Christ suffered for vs. And Tertullian saith God spared not his owne Sonne but deliuered him for vs that is God spared him not from deliuering Out of these foure places hauing different causes ends and respects for which to which in which they were written you clout this conclusion as common to them all which is repugnant to euery one of them that Christ IN MIND so saieth Nazianzene SVFFERED ALL so saith Cyrill WHICH VVAS DVE TO VS so saith Ierome WITHOVT SPARING so saith Tertullian By this order and manner of hudling and hampering different things and diuerse places together you may collect what you will when you will and out of whom you will and this is your cleare and plaine sense of the Fathers against the which you say I can take no exception After this you fal againe to your first trench more of termes and wandering a while about the phrases of Gods proper wrath the true and right punishment of sinne two countenances in Christ and the coincidence of his soule and spirit you would faine conclude if you could that if Christ suffered the wrath of God for vs he suffered the true paines of hell which I auouched you neuer should be able to doe Whether I or you abuse the Reader with ambiguous and doubtfull words I leaue to his iudgement that taketh the paines to peruse what is past and what followeth truely I disaduantage my selfe very much so precisely to diuide distinguish and prooue euery thing as I doe if I ment to slide away with generalities But you that neither can nor will specifie any parts nor bring any proofes of your chiefest assertions but keepe your selfe safe vnder the shelter of certaine phrases deuised by your selfe without any warrant of Scriptures or Fathers and neuer expounded nor defined in all your writing saue onely with AS IT VVERE and after a sort what meaning you can haue to handle so great
for saken of God whose cause to reconcile them 〈◊〉 then vndertookest and as a most skillfull Patron for seruants thou didest not disdaine to take the person of a seruant and SO FARRE thou didst compassionate the weake that thou wast neither afraid nor ashamed to be crucified and to dy leauing for a time thine owne higth and emptying the maiesty of thy glory that the dispersed might returne and the forsaken might take breath or comfort The forsaking which Cyprian here describeth in Christ consisteth in leauing of his diuine power and glory for a time and in abasing himselfe SO FARRE as to dy the death of the Crosse for their sakes but no farder And these wordes he saith Christ would haue vnderstoode to be a cause of their Reconciliation to God who had deserued for their sinnes to be forsaken of God and therefore he addeth presently f 〈◊〉 I consider thee Lord on that crosse where thou seemedst without helpe or forsaken how with an Emperiall power thou didst send the theefe before to thy kingdome by assuming of whom it is manifest how much thou hadst preuailed for those that were forsaken You would faine so wrest Cyprians wordes that he should say Christ vndertooke our cause and no more but he withall affirmeth that Christ tooke vpon him our person and that his carefull complaint were the wordes of his beloued If the wordes were spoken as well in our person as in our cause then we were indeed forsaken and Christ by laying downe his glorie for a time and obeying his fathers will did by those wordes declare that he reconciled vs to God when we were forsaken and in signe thereof with full power made the theefe partaker of his kingdome that had deserued and was condemned to die the death of a for lorne and forsaken malefactour g Defenc. pag. 109. li. 2. If you thincke they ment that Christ spake this by some strange metonimy naming himselfe but meaning his Church that can haue no good sense I shall not need to tell you The first sense of 〈◊〉 complaint on the Crosse. what I thinke let them speake themselues what they ment and when you haue heard their meaning out of their owne wordes you shall see how much you abused Cyprian to make him speake that he neuerment It is plaine enough which Athanasius saith h Athanaâ—…ius de incarnatione Christi Christ spake those wordes in our person for he was neuer forsaken of God and Austen is as euident i August epist. 120. why disdaine we to heare the voice of the body by the mouth of the head to me that is to my body my church and my litle ones So was it said why hast thou forsaken me euen as it was said he that receaueth you receaueth me No doubt we were in those wordes and the head did speake for his body And likewise Leo k Leo Serm. 16. de Pâ—…ss Dom. Christ spake those wordes in the voice of his Redeemed Neither are they alone in this opinion Theodoret satith l Theodoret. iâ—… Psalm 21. because Christ was the head of mans nature he speaketh for the whole nature of man So Bede m 〈◊〉 a in Psal. 21. Quare dereliquistime idestmeos ideo scilicet quia longè te fecerunt peccata esse à salute mea id est meorum Hec verbaplane innuunt caput non in persona sua hic loqui Quomodo enim derelictus vellonge à salute factus posset esse ille Why hast thou forsaken me that is mine because sinne did put thee farre from sauing me that is mine These words do plainly prooue that the head doth not here speake in his owne person For how could he possiblely be forsaken or remooued from saluation And Euthymius n 〈◊〉 in Psal. 21. The Lord taketh vnto him the person of mans nature as lincked to him and saith why hast thou forsaken me now a man that is the whole nature of man And Damascene o 〈◊〉 Orthodoxe fidei li. 3. ca. 24. Christ was neuer forsaken of his owne Godhead but we were those that were forsaken and despised Wherefore appropriating our person he praied in that sort And expressing what it is to appropriate or assume an others person he saith As when a man doth put on an others person of piety or charitic and in his steed vseth speach for him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which agreeth not vnto himselfe If then we take dereliction for the want of Gods fauour spirit and grace as these Fathers doe it is euident Christ could not so be forsaken and consequently these wordes in that sense which is proper to the Children of Gods wrath could not agree to the person of Christ though it were true in his members that they by nature were forsaken and destitute of grace till he reconciled them to God and diffused his spirite into their harts to make them partakeâ—…s of his holinesse And as for the strangenesse of the metonimy count you that strange which Christ vseth in one Chapter more then thirty times and find you no strangenesse in your conceits which are no where throughout the Scriptures either expressed or so much as coherent with the continuall speach and plaine rules of the Scriptures p Defenc. pag. 109. li. 5. That can haue no good sense For how can it be that we were forsaken of God when Christ was on the Crosse Nay euen then and there we were purchased vnto God not forsaken by God Doth any man vse when he would make reasons for his opinion to refuâ—…e himselfe as you doe we were purchased you say on the Crosse vnto God you must adde by the bloud of his sonne which was also God for that Saint Paul in the plâ—…ce which you cite nameth as the true and right price of this purchase God purchased his Church with his owne bloud and not by the direfull paines of hell as your braine hath lately broched Now if we were purchased on the Crosse then till we were purchased we were enstranged from God and so forsaken of him And what hindreth this complaint or prayer of Christs to beare witnesse that we were now reconciled and purchased vnto God which before were forsaken and separated from God For those words doe not imply that we still continued forsaken but that formerly without Christ we were vtterly forsaken and now by him restored to fauour And the goodnesse of this sense I doe not thinke but any man of meane capacitie will soone conceaue and iudge it more fruitfull for vs to know that by Christs mediation and oblation on the crosse we are now no longer strangers vnto God nor forsaken of him as before we were for our sinnes then that Christ suffered the direfull and infernall paines and death of the damned in his Soule before we could be freed from our sinnes For of the first there can be no question and of the second you neither haue nor euer shall be able to bring one
vs. In this sense all that the Scripture intendeth by wrath in God is most proper and naturall to God namely his holinesse abhorring sinne his iustice proportioning punishment to it and his power performing whatsoeuer his will and councell decreeth for the repressing or reuenging of sinne For which respect Zanchius a very moderate and considerate writer of our time and one whom amongst others the Discourser iudgeth no way inferior to the best of the Auncients setteth downe this for one of his Resolutions which he calleth a Thesis Ira eo sensu quo scripturae dant illam deo veré proprié ei attribuitur Anger in that sense in which the Scriptures giue it to God is truely and properly ascribed vnto him And his resolutions ensuing vpon the former are not onely that God is angry he meaneth truely and properly as his first Thesis affirmeth with all sinners as well elect as reprobate but that maior grauior est ira dei aduersus homines etiam electos propter peccata quam existimari possit ab ipsis hominibus The anger of God against his elect for sinne is greater and greeuouser then they can conceiue A second signification of proper may be that this wrath which the Scriptures attribute to God is proper to him and common to no creature els Men and deuils haue wrath but that is tumultuous or vitious and hath no communion with Gods wrath which is righteous and holy The Saints and Angels in heauen no doubt detest all iniquitie but they are no fit discerners esteemers nor rewarders of sinne The secrets of the heart they know not whose vncleannesse is open onely to the eies of God The waight of sinne they cannot truely balance he onely that is offended and cannot be deceiued rightly knoweth how farre euery sinne should displease and what euery sinne deserueth As they cannot fully ponder offences no more can they iustly proportion punishment to the demerits of euery sinner and least of all ordaine and arme meanes temporally to afflict or eternally to reuenge the bodies and soules of transgressors he onely that is all-wise all-holy all-iust and allmightie can throughly discerne perfectly dislike euenly reward and powerfully represse sinne by repentance or vengeance as seemeth best to him and therefote he onely is the righteous Iudge of the world and capable of that wrath which is proper to God A third meaning of Gods proper wrath may be this that as euery thing most rightly deserueth his name when it hath in 〈◊〉 permixtion of the contrary to alter his nature so Gods proper wrath may be that which is wholy and onely wrath without any temper of mercie or loue to diminish the heate and hight of wrath That is most properly light that hath no darkenesse trueth that hath no falshood good that hath no euill in it And since Gods iustice against the wicked admitteth neither loue to their persons nor mercie to their miseries that is also Gods proper wrath which is fully and wholy wrath without any fauour or pitie towards them that are the vessels of wrath appointed to destruction Of their damnation S. Iohn writeth The smoke of their torment shall ascend for euer and they shal haue no rest day nor night Wherby it is euident their iudgement shall be mercilesse their worme neuer dying and the fire neuer quenching And how can it be otherwise since they are both haters and hated of God Iacob haue I loued saith God and Esau haue I hated Thou hatest saith Dauid to God all those that worke wickednesse Yea the wrath of God saith Paul is reuealed from heauen against all vngodlinesse and vnrighteousnesse of men For as they regarded not to know God so God deliuered them vp into a reprobate minde to doe vnseemely things Neither is there any greater wrath in this life then for men to be left to the lustes of their owne hearts that they may be full of all vnrighteousnesse wickednesse maliciousnesse haters of God inuenters of euill voyde of all loue fidelitie and mercie and here receiue in themselues a meete reward of their errour to prepare them for eternall vengeance with diuels in the world to come This wrath of God against the wicked hath in it neither loue nor mercie but is wholy wrath proportioned to their desires which are sinnefull and their deserts which are hatefull before God and so they feele the iust and full recompence of their affected ignorance and wilfull disobedience Of this wrath the elect doe not taste they are freed from it in Christ their Redeemer and Sauiour by whose spirit their mindes are lightned and renued and their hearts perswaded to the obedience of faith and by whose death they are wholy deliuered from the wrath to come Of the two former they often taste specially when they neglect continuall and serious repentance to which free remission of sinnes is offered in the blood of Christ Iesus or when through the rebellion of the flesh against the spirit they are caried backe to the desires of their former corruption In which cases the Lord with sundry and sore afflictions letteth them sharpely feele what it is to prouoke the holinesse or abuse the goodnesse of so gracious a Father and neuer leaueth scourging them till they see and acknowledge their vnrulinesse and lament and leaue their vncleannesse taking hope and hold through faith of his mercies promised them in Christ Iesus If it can not be truely sayd of the elect that in this third sense which you vrge they taste of Gods proper wrath because of the loue which God beareth and sheweth them in Christ his sonne how much lesse may it be auouched of Christ himselfe that he suffered all Gods proper wrath on whom nothing was layed for our sinnes but with so great loue fauour and honour considering the cause which he vndertooke that God in each and all Christs sufferings declared him to be the best pleasing sacrifice and most sufficient recompense for sinne that heauen could yeeld or God would haue For whether wee looke to the choise of the person to the measure of his chastisement or to the reward of his labour wee shall see the exceeding and admirable loue and fauour of God towards him albeit the iustice of God kindled against our sinnes did not quit him from all paine yea that very chastisement by which he yeelded and learned obedience did not onely witnesse but also increase Gods loue towards him And where you Sir Discourser cast your eyes onely vpon Gods seuere and implacable iustice against sinne when you speake of Christes sufferings to serue your owne turne and to tole in hell-paines with some pretence of piety all the godly may perceiue and must confesse that God in satisfaction for sinne had greater regard of his holinesse despised by mans disobedience and of his glorie defaced by Satans triumph for our fall than of the rigor of his iustice prouoked by contempt of his commandement For
fetch your wood to nourish hell fire and see whether it make no more for the one then for the other Against Senacherib that proud and blasphemous king of Assyria the capitall and cruell enemie of Gods people and Church the Prophet denounceth vengeance in this wise The Lord shall cause the glorie of his voice to be heard and shall shew the stroke of his arme with the anger of his countenance and flame of deuouring fire with scattering and tempest For Tophet is prouided of olde it is euen readie for the King God hath made it deepe and wide the burning thereof is fire and much wood the breath of the Lord doth kindle it as a current or riuer of brimstone Tophet was a place built by hand in the valley of Hinnom nere to Ierusalem made deepe and wide to containe whole Pyles of woode which the Priests of Molech with their deuices and prouisions could readily kindle and raize to huge and mightie flames to inclose and consume the children that were presented to their Idole To this place and vse the Prophet alludeth when he threatneth the King of Asshur and to comfort the Iowes that God had care ouer them he assureth them that Gods Tophet was prouided of olde and readie for the King of Asshur that it was deepe and wide to receiue him and all his retinue and the burning thereof as the fire of much wood the breath of the Lord kindling it as a flood of brimstone That Tophet was a place in the valley of Hinnom a part of Gehinnom BVILT HIE of purpose to burne children in the fire appeareth by Ieremie The store of wood heaped there and the rage of fire kindled there is euident by Esays comparison when he sayth The burning thereof is fire and much wood the breath of the Lord as a Riuer of brimstone kindling it fire and much wood is the fire of much wood to which he compareth the burning of hell for wood without kindling maketh no fire And so the Chaldaie paraphrast expresseth it A flame of sire is there in hell kindled LIKE AS in much wood And to euery man meanely seene in the Hebrew tongue it is a knowen Rule that Caph the note of similitude is often vnderstood in the Scriptures and then specially when it is added to one part of the Periode for example Flie to your mountaine a bird that is LIKE a bird Zion shall be plowed a field that is LIKE a field A Lyons whelpe Iudah from the pray shalt thou ascend that is LIKE a Lyons whelpe All flesh is grasse and the glory thereof is as the flower of the field that is all flesh is LIKE grasse And in this place of Esaie it is so the rather because the aduerbe of similitude is expressed in the next member where it is said the breath of the Lord LIKE a streame of brimstone doth kindle it which argueth that the former part must likewise be vnderstood the burning thereof is A s a fire of much wood which in effect is a mightie flame This then being a comparison what reason haue you Sir Discourser to pronounce that the Scriptures shew no more true fire in hell then much wood since fire was the maine respect why hell was likened to Tophet wood was not and without fire hell is no more like to Tophet then it is to a bodkin which if it be thrust into a mans body will raize paine enough And therefore these amplifications must either vtterly be voyde and import nothing knowen to the Iewes or else there must be fire in hell as there was in Tophet and that like the fire of much wood which is violent and raging and as a torrent of brimstone which flameth all with fire if it be once kindled And since Christ called hell Gehinnam for the resemblance it had to the flames of Gehinnom as is before prooued what maruaile if the Prophet speaking by the same spirite compared hell to Tophet which was the place in Gehinnom where the mightiest fires to burne men were made in his time Or if we follow not the Chaldaie paraphrase to make wood a comparison but leane to the later writers who make it a metaphore and referre it either to the continuance of hell fire or to the sinnes soules and bodies of the wicked feeding and nourishing the fire of hell as wood doth our common fire what gaine you by that If one word in the sentence be figuratiue will you conclude all the rest to be figuratiue so may you as well anouch all the Articles of our faith to be allegoricall because sitting at the right hand of God is a plaine allegorie And are there no moe places in the Scriptures mentioning hell fire besides this of Esaie Or if there be as there be exceeding many which haue no similitudes nor metaphores in them will you allegorize them all because this place of Esaie hath one similitude or metaphore in it whether this haue any learning reason or sense in it let the Reader iudge And because I haue mentioned the opinion of the latter writers making wood a metaphore in this place of Esaie and yet confessing the fire of hell to be a true substantiall aud externall fire I thinke it not amisse to let the Reader see what diuerse of them in true religion and learning not inferior to any of our time haue professed touching either of these points Peter Martyrs iudgement of GEHENNA we heard before who maketh Tophet all one with GEHENNA and saith of Tophet Esaie in his 30. Chapter calleth that place of Gehenna Tophet and fire vnquenchable as hauing much wood and brimstone to nourish it The Prophet also setteth downe the breath wherewith the fire is blowne that it may flame the more siercely Munster in his Annotations vpon the 30. of Esaie saith Gehenna is here called Tophet Dicit habitaculum illud esse igâ—…eum That place or habitacle the Prophet saith is all fierie to let thee vnderstand that the torment there is euerlasting For the vncleane lustes of the mind which here are not purged by faith shall be the nourishment of that eternall flame IN STEEDE of wood and coales And also the conscience within shall afflict the wicked as a kind of fire Hell is perpetuall because the Spirite and will of the Lord giue euerlasting force of fire to it Bullinger in his 90. homilie vpon the same Chapter Our Prophet calleth hell Tophet as our Sauiour called it Gehenna And indeede Tophet or Gehenna did burne and flame with perpetuall fires deuouring their children which seduced with a diuelish error thought they offered them vnto God when they offered them vnto the diuell As then in Tophet wretched men were skorched with fire so in hell all the wicked are tormented with euerlasting fire Therefore hell is rightly called Tophet and Gehenna whose inside or burning is fire that is if thou aske what is in hell there is fire and burning or
the exceeding loue and admirable honor wherewith God accepted and aduanced the death of his Sonne for mans saluation seeme to any sober man verie wrath true vengeance or the proper punishment of sinne prouided and reserued for reprobate men and angels It was not for correction you say What then ergo for vengeance Who being in his right wits would so reason God afflicteth his Saints often times for probation for perfection for coronation as the Scriptures auouch and not for correction May a man thence conclude by your Logick that these afflictions of the Godly are true punishment and proper vengeance Your selfe most withstand it Why then since Christes afflictions had in them a cleere illustration of Gods wisdome power and loue towards man somewhat blemished and obscured in mans fall by Satans craft and a full recompence to his holinesse and iustice neglected and irritated by mans vnrighteousnesse besides the obedience sufficience and preualence of his Sonne thereby declared why should I say those afflictions of Christ great and small during his life and at his death seeme to any man that is well aduised the true wrath proper vengeance and right punishment that was prepared for sinners Yea since the proper vengeance and right punishment of sinne must be common to sinfull men with the sinfull Angels in as much as they both sinned and shall both receaue the due wages of sinne how can the corporall afflictions of this life wherein the diuels can not partake with men be called the proper vengeance and right punishment of sinne And who but you hearing our Sauiour pronounce that euerlasting fire is the full payment and proper punishment of wicked and accursed men and Angels would labour with such loose and lewd collections to bring Christ Iesus within the compasse of the full punishment and proper vengeance due to sinne Wherefore take backe your riotous and irreligious termes As they are not prooued by any Scripture so are they not to be suffered in Christian Religion because they are but cloudes to cloke the fantasticall frame of your new hell In the sharpnesse of the punishment exacted by God on the manhood of his owne Sonne for our sinnes though farre different from that which the wicked doe and shall feele and which the Scriptures call the wrath to come wherein the diuels shall haue their portion euen in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone God would haue vs learne how much he detesteth our sinnes how easie all the plagues which we suffer in this life are in respect of that we deserue how infinite the loue and mercy of God was towards vs to lay the burden which we could not haue borne on the shoulders of his onely Sonne who for his dignitie innocencie and euery way sufficiencie was able to quench that wrath that euerlastingly and intolerably would haue burnt against vs to our finall and perpetuall destruction of body and soule For if Gods owne Sonne though he did recompence our sinnes with his infinite humilitie obedience and sanctitie was yet pursued vnto death in most painefull and reprochfull manner for our sakes before we could be quited from the guilt and load of our sinnes had we appeared in the iust iudgement of God to receaue the reward of our manifold iniquities what could haue beene the end thereof but a most dreadfull damnation of body and soule to hell fire for euer with the desperate and damned spirits This God would haue vs obserue in the death of his Sonne though there be many other points of Gods wisedome power and loue towards Christ himselfe which the Scriptures inclose in the Crosse of Christ. That then Gods wrath and displeasure against our sinnes appeared in the Crosse of Christ I doe not deny speaking of wrath after the manner of the Sacred Scriptures But that any wrath or vengeance proper to the wicked was therein offered or executed on Christ or that he suffered the iust and full punishment allotted to others for sinne Saue that his sufferings were in his person the full price of our Redemption I meane a most sufficient satisfaction and recompence for all the sinnes of the world I find no mention made thereof in all the Scriptures nor see any iust cause or proofe thereof alleaged by you in all your writings For since you will not endure that any thing executed on the godly shall be truely called wrath it is euident that the wrath which you imagine Christ suffered must be proper to the wicked before it can be rightly called wrath because the godly feele no part of Gods wrath litle nor great as you suppose Now that Christ suffered the wrath of God prouided for the sinnes of the wicked only and no way common to the godly this is both a false and a wicked proposition of yours though you euery where vrge it you no where prooue it but boldly as your fashion is affirming it you thinke the world bound to embrace it I find by the Scriptures that the wrath which Christ suffered in Soule and Body differed from that which is proper to the wicked as well in the Nature and measure of the paines as in the purpose of the punisher and inward peace of the sufferer and in all the consequents of the paines themselues In this world the wicked find subtraction of all grace and fauour confusion and desperation in the world to come exclusion from glorie Malediction and damnation wholy and euerlastingly light on them none of which may be transferred to Christ without intolerable blasphemie Yet paine you thinke Christ suffered and more then paine the wicked and damned doe not suffer Were that true which is most false that the damned suffer no more then pain though indeed in hell cuery thing doth paine them yet all paines are not of the same nature and kind and no paines felt in this life come neere the paines of hell whereof this mortall life and flesh is not capable The paine of fire we see doth presently cut of this life and some diseases so much heate the body that they doe the like and yet the paine and force of this naturall fire or of any sicknesse is nothing comparable to the fury of hell fire for which the bodies of the wicked must be made immortall before they can endure it All aches and agues doe paine the body all feares and sorrowes afflict the soule and spirit of man Shall we thence conclude that all men at all times when they are pained or grieued suffer the paines of hell because it is paine which the damned doe suffer It is more then prophane abusing and deluding the terrible iudgements of God against sinne to suppose that all paines of body and soule are hell paines in nature and kind which you wrap vnder the fold of proper wrath and right punishment of sinne because they are paines Wherefore they must either be the selfe same paines that God in his iust and fierce wrath inflicted on the damned or you
a new compasse of hell that shall containe all that the wicked doe suffer in this life or elsewhere be it neuer so little If you will fall to creating of new helles shew your commission otherwise you may create your selfe a woorse condition than you are ware of Thinke you that any wise or godlie Reader will rest himselfe vpon such inuentions or such conclusions as these be Who can say how little or how small the paine was which Christ suffered You onely can tell how great it was for you say Christ suffered a sense of Gods wrath equall to hell it selfe and to all the torâ—…ents thereof For this if you would spare vs as well proofes as words we might at length perhaps beleeue you meant some trueth Why presume you to determine a iust equalitie in Christes sufferings to the very paines of hell vpon your owne head What Scripture teacheth you so to say Nay who can say you declaâ—… or comprehend the infinite greatnesse of it You haue comprehended and declared the iust measure of it for you make it equall with hell And yet as constant in this as in all other things you presently adde that Christs anguish might very well be and was no doubt infinite euen in those bodily stripes and wounds whose paines otherwise were finite Where if you take infinite for great or aboue mens reach and knowledge as sometimes the word is vsed then speake you nothing to the purpose For Christes paines may be great and intolerable to vs though nothing neere the paines of hell But if you take infinite as contrarie to finite which you do in this place by opposing it to finite then infinite indeed is more than hell for the paines of hell are finite in degree though infinite in hauing no end Howbeit in the meane while you wrong the Godhead of Christ in whom nothing is infinite besides his Diuine Nature and the force thereof So that if Christ did suffer paines truely infinite his Godhead must suffer which is infinite blasphemie by reason his manhood being a creature could not nor might not suffer but that which was finite both in waight and end Such speculations you broach out of your owne brest without any likelihood of trueth or concurrence with the sacred Scriptures and then you aske Who can limit or measure the furie of Gods seuere iustice against sinne As if God who is truely infinite as well in power as in all other points did his vttermost against Christ and the creature in Christ were able to beare the brunt of the most that Gods iustice and power could inflict vpon him Such desperate vntrueths well become your sobrietie who will say any thing so you may haue some shift of words to shrowd your selfe vnder but the Scriptures will teach you that Christes sufferings were of infinite price in respect of the person who was God and man not of infinite paine which exceedeth the power and strength of all creatures I aske do you grant that Christ suffered Gods wrath in spirit as the Apostle 1. Thess. 5. distinguisheth the spirit and the soule I answere do you heare that you grosly mistake the Apostle if you make the soule and the spirit two seuerall substances in man otherwise if they be but one your question is very childish For the immortall substance of mans soule suffereth whether it be by her sense affections vnderstanding or will And this is no Sophistrie deceiuing you with the word soule but it is the recalling you to conceiue rightly of the soule of man which is an immortall and spirituall substance subiect to paine as well by her vnderstanding and sense as by her affections and will and by what other meanes soeuer it pleaseth God to punish her As for the wrath which you would haue suffered in Christs spirit when you tell vs what you meane by wrath whether the apprehension of Gods wrath against our sinne or the absolute impression of paine from the immediate hand of God or the due consideration of the case wherein Christ stood when he suffered for our sinnes which might iustly breed feare care and sorrow in his soule besides the affliction of bodily paines and anguish which his immortall and humane spirit must needs discerne and feele you shall receiue a fuller answere Till then holde vs excused if we spend not time to guesse grope after your blinde and hid fansies Howbeit whatsoeuer Christ suffered in his soule it was religious and meritorious in him I meane euen the feare sorow and smart which hee humbly obediently and patiently suffered as from the hand of God whosoeuer were the meanes and other wrath than that you shall neuer be able to proue was inflicted on Christs spirit or soule Who can say but that this was as hot and scorching as hell fire it selfe We see then your forwardnesse to haue it so but withall your foolishnesse that daunting all others as vnpriuie to Gods secrets and Christes sufferings you only take vpon you to tell vs out of your casting boxe how great and how hot the paine was which Christ suffered in soule euen as great and as hot as hell fire it selfe What dreames be these to mocke men withall and to fraight the Christian faith with As if you had of late receiued some Reuelation from heauen that Christes paine was full as hot as hell fire I will not diminish the paines which the Sonne of God suffered for our sakes but am well content to aggrauate them to the highest so farre as the Scriptures giue me any light or leading but you that extenuate his paines described in the Scriptures and deuise other paines for him as hot as hell fire no where testified by the Holy Ghost what defence can you bring for your doings Who can say no Nay who can say yea that doth not rush headlong into Gods secret counsels as you doe Be these the proofes whereon you pinne the paines of hell suffered in Christes soule Who can say they were not as hot and scorching as hell fire it selfe Frie in your follie I wish you no worse fire if I knew not your vaine I should thinke you sicker than you are I haue no doubt but Christes paine on the Crosse was proportioned to his patience which God meant to proue though not to ouerpresse otherwise the measure of his paine saue that it exceeded not the strength of his manhood as I do not know no more doeth any man liuing except hee will deceiue himselfe with his owne dreames as this Discourser doth For though we may by nature in some sort coniecture how grieuous it was for Christ to hang three houres by the woundes of his hands and feet all his bones being vnioynted yet know we not how farre the power and iustice of God made way to that paine who can by any meanes as well as without all meanes increase paine to what degree he will For my part therefore I will not meddle with
the English Translation to be openly reade in the Church confirmeth not the Marginall appositions which may not be read in the Church though they may be receiued so farre as they haue manifest coherence with the Text or consequence from the Text in respect rather of their veritie then Authoritie For these notes at first were not affixed and in sundry editions they haue been altered increased as the Corrector liked euen this note which you alleage somewhat differeth from the Geneuian notes whence this and the most of the rest were taken The words of the Geneuian edition vpon this place are these The word Agonie signifieth that horror that Christ had conceaued not onely for feare of death but of his Fathers Iudgement and wrath against sinne The Printer of the great English Bible or his Corrector ouer against those words of the Text he was in an Agonie setteth this obseruation in the Margine He felt the horror of Gods wrath and iudgement against sinne I refuse not those words as if they gainsaid the Doctrine which I defend but I see no farder ground in them then ghesse when they ayme at the cause of Christs Agonie which the Scripture suppresseth Howbeit let the words stand in their full strength though by no meanes I acknowledge either Authentike or publike Authoritie in them they rather euert then support your opinion The vttermost here ascribed to Christ is HORROR that is a shaking or trembling feare of Gods Iudgement and wrath against sinne which all the godly finde in them selues when they enter into the serious cogitation of Gods holinesse displeased and his Iustice prouoked with their sinnes but this is farre from the death or paines of the damned except you make the vengeance of the Reprobate all one with the repentance of the faithfull This therefore is like the rest of your proofes no way tending to your purpose The feare of Gods wrath against sinne which is common to all the godly in this life though not at all times hath no fellowship with the feare of the Reprobate much lesse with the torments of the damned The one is a religious and godly sorrow for sinne which worketh saluation and yet agniseth with feare and trembling the iustnesse and greatnesse of Gods wrath against sinne the other is the beholding of the terrible and eternall destruction of Body and Soule prepared for them without all hope of ease or end In Christ there might be a double cause of this horror conceaued or felt by him as affections are felt in the Nature of Man the one touching vs the other touching himselfe Christ might tremble and shake at the terror of Gods Iudgement prouided for vs which was euerlasting damnation of Body and Soule in hell fire and the more tenderly he loued vs the greater was his horror to see this hang ouer our heads euen as we naturally tremble to see the desperate daungers of our dearest friends present before our eyes And if Paul said truely of him selfe we knowing the terror of the Lord meaning the terror of the Lords Iudgement against sinne how much more then did the Sauiour of the world know the same the cleare beholding of which might iustly worke in him a manifest horror to teach vs to take heede of that terrible Iudgement at the sight whereof for our sakes he did tremble in the daies of his flesh An other cause of that horror might concerne himselfe For since the wrath and Iudgement of God against our sinne was so terrible to behold that Christ in his humane nature trembled at it how could it but raise an horror in him to know that he must presently receiue in his owne Body the burthen thereof and make satisfaction therefore with his owne smart which how farre it would pearce his patience the weakenes of our flesh in him might well feare and tremble though his spirit were neuer so resolute and ready to endure the most that mans nature in this life could sustaine with obedience and confidence So that either the sight of Gods wrath against sinne due to vs or the satisfaction of the same which Christ was to make might vrge his humane nature to that feare and trembling for the time which these notes obserue and yet neither of these come neere the feare of the wicked or paines of the damned Besides that religious horror and feare is nothing lesse then the paines of hell inflicted on the Soule by the immediate hand of God which is the deuice that you seeke to establish Thus my Text of Scripture is also iustified that Christ gaue himselfe the price of Redemption for vs WHICH ELS VVE SHOVLD HAVE PAYD If wresting adding and altering may be called iustifying then is your sense of that text iustified indeed otherwise there is nothing yet alleadged that any way approueth that meaning of the text which you would inforce The price of our redemption Christ payd not the same which els we should haue payd had we not beene redeemed for so Christ must haue suffered euerlasting damnation of bodie and soule which was the payment exacted of vs but he payd a PRICE for vs that more contented his displeased Father than our euerlasting destruction could haue done You dallie therefore with the doubtfulnesse of the word PAYD which sometimes signifieth the enduring of punishment sometimes the yeelding of recompence The Price of our sinnes which we should haue payd that is the punishment of our sinnes which we should haue susteined was eternall destruction of bodie and soule in hell fire and other payment we could make none This payment due to vs or punishment which we should haue payd the person of Christ could not suffer it is most horrible blasphemy so to speake or thinke but he payd a price for vs that is a SATISFACTION and AMENDS for our sinnes which by no meanes we were able to pay And so much the word ANTILYTRON noteth euen a Price Recompence or Ransome in exchange of the punishment or imprisonment which the captiue should suffer This Price you will say was himselfe I make no doubt that Christ gaue himselfe to die but NOT TO BE DAMNED for our sinnes as we should haue beene Neither can the common custome of redeeming captiues inferre any more than the giuing of a price for the Prisoner And therefore I did iustly aske Who told you that the Scripture here speaketh after the common vse of redeeming Captiues taken in warre And where you answere the nature of the word ANTILYTRON importeth so much which is properly vsed in such cases you vndestand neither the nature of the word neither the maner of our redemption rightly For first the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whence Antilytron commeth properly signifieth a mutuall redemption of ech other as Aristotle obserueth and so we should redeeme Christ as he redeemed vs. Wherefore the word is heere improperly taken and signifieth no more than LYTRON without composition Againe the common vse of
Fathers haue duely obserued so much out of the Scriptures c August ad Simpli â—…anum li. 2. quaest 1. Vâ—…itur Deus ministres eitam malis 〈◊〉 ad vindictam malorum vel ad bonorum probatioâ—…m God vseth as his ministers euill spirits saith Austen to reuenge the wicked and to trie the good Saint Ierom. d Hierony in Ioâ—…l cap. 2. Non solum homines ministri sâ—…t vltores ira eius sed etiam contrariae fortitudines quae appellantur furor ira Dei. Not onely men are Gods ministers and reuenâ—… of his wrath but also the contrarie powers which are diuels are called the wrath and displeasure of God For e 〈◊〉 as the Babiloâ—…ans punishing Ierusalem are called Gods armies so wicked angels are called Gods hosts and camps whiles they execute the Lords will I 〈◊〉 sâ—… Basile f Basil. â—… Psal. 3â—… Euill spirits which execute punishment on the wicked and the powers that serue 〈◊〉 in that sort are called the Anger and wrath of God And that this was a receaued opinion amongst Christians Ierom giueth testimonie where he saith g Hierony in 〈◊〉 cap. 30. Plâ—…rique 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…am â—…uroris Domini Diabolum interpretantur cui tradimur ad puniendum The most of our men interpret the wrath of Gods furie to be the diuell to whom we are deliuered to be punished And to that end this office is assigned the diuell and his angels h Idem in 〈◊〉 cap. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to mentis praepositi sunt Wicked angels are appointed to inflict or execute torments Wherefore this resolution is learnedly and truely made by Zanchius i Duâ—… ad summam sunt officia ad qua Damones omnes sunt a Deo destinati There are summarâ—…ly two offices to which all the diuels are appointed of God One that by their tentations the godly elect may be exercised in patience and humilitie and so their saluation more and more â—…urdered the other that God by them as his ministers and executioners 〈◊〉 spirituall and corporall punishments on thâ—… wicked reprobate k Ibidem Id quod maxime 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fine seculi c. Which shall most be seene in the end of the worlde when God shall perfourme that the diuels shall be tormented themselues and torment others in the place of eternall punishments You take the diuels office from him and impose it on God himselfe making him the tormentor of damned soules with his immediate hand to which incomprehensible punishments as you call them you subiect the soule of Christ on the crosse without ground or grant of holie Scripture and as if this were not desperate impreâ—… enough with obstinate impudencie you say CERTAINLY it was so l Some God himselfe immediatly inflicted some he inflicted by meanes and instruments but 〈◊〉 his hand principally which did whatsoeuer was done vnto him You told vs not twelue lines before that Gods owne hand inflicted on Christ whatsoeuer he suffered now you tell vs some God himselfe immediatly inflicted some by meanes and instruments but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The first is a notorious and presumptuous vntrueth no way 〈◊〉 by any Scripture the next is a trifling cauill or a pestilent blasphemy for 〈◊〉 you meane no more then that God was the principall 〈◊〉 and Appointer how in 〈◊〉 and his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should haue power ouer Christes bodie so God is the principall Agent not only in all the â—…usterings of Martyrs and Innocents but the supreame and 〈◊〉 Director and Disposer of all things done by angels men or diuels A thought can not rise in the heart a word can not proceed out of the mouth the hand can perforâ—… 〈◊〉 act without the power and will of the Creatour In n Acts. â—…7 him 〈◊〉 moue and 〈◊〉 â—…ur being and so haue the Angels all whose power commeth from him and 〈◊〉 him But if you meane that God by his reuealed will or publike ordinance sâ—…t the Iewes and the diuell on worke to kill his Sonne then you must either excuse them by Gods authoritie or charge God with the same iniquity o Defenc. paâ—… 82. li. 27. You can not say that Christes punishment was Gods meere and bare permission onelie What you meane by meere and bare permission I know not it proceeded I say from the 〈◊〉 kinde of will and power in God whence all the trials of his saints and deaths of his 〈◊〉 come though this were of more moment then all theirs in that it touched a greater person and tended to a greater honour then men might haue p Ibid. li. 2â—… Nay 〈◊〉 punishment was God written and reuealed will his expresse and publike ordinance and most 〈◊〉 appointment from the beginning of the world God in his written and vnwritten decrees in his publike and priuate ordinances is equally wise iust and holy that is he is alwayes like himselfe Wherefore this farre set Preface hath in it no strength to 〈◊〉 the whole 〈◊〉 of Christes sufferings to Gods immediat hand Did not God expresly by his Prophet denounce to Dauid what he would doe against 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wise and deuouring him with the sword And yet I trust you will not impute 〈◊〉 ambition rebellion and incest to Gods immediat action What q Matth. 24. affliction and tribulation the Church shall suffer towards the end what r 2. Thess 2. strange illusions and lying wondâ—…rs shall leade them to beleeue lies that receiue not the loue of Gods trueth what s â—… Tim 4. heresie and t 2. Tim. 3. iniquitie shall abound in the latter dayes the written and reuealed will of God his expresse and publike ordinance doth appoint foretell and assure Shall we therefore ascribe all these persecutions delusions and transgressions to Gods immediat action Except you be madde you will be of another minde In decreeing ordering and effecting all these God is most iust pure and holy and yet these actions in their immediat authors perswaders and approuers are most vniust impure and vnholy Wherefore this prating of Gods meere and bare permission will nothing helpe your false and wicked collection But God you say appointed Christes sufferings from the beginning of the world As if any thing were new and lately remembred with God From the beginning of the world all his works were knowen to him little or great all are alike decreed appointed and setled with him u Defenc. pag. 82. li. 33. The whole suffering of Christ was Gods owne and most proper action Most proper is that which is more PROPER then all other or at least as proper as any If these words of yours be true then all that Christ suffered in bodie was as properly Gods action as the creation of the world the renouation of mans minde the infusion of grace the mission of the Holy Ghost and glorification of his Elect. And consequently Christ suffered nothing at the hands of men but all that is reported in the Scriptures of his outward
the worst the damned feele Haue the true paines of hell no more in them but a feare thereof Is it possible for men in this mortall flesh and life to endure the true paines of hell and of the damned If you so thinke you new stampe vs a strange but an easie hell in respect of those terrible iudgements which God hath ordeined for the wicked in the world to come Will you flie to your metaphors and say that hell paines are taken for great and exceeding Then play you with figures and phrases as your fashion is and come nothing neere to the substance of the cause So that the one is a sensible vntrueth the other is a shifting trifle brought in to lengthen the tale when matter faileth And when all is sayd so much is sound as I forwarned at first that x Conclus pa. 286. li. 29. fearing doubting or distrusting lest God will for our manifolde sinnes cast vs from his presence and condemne vs to hell commeth in vs from the guiltinesse of conscience and weaknesse of faith and hope which in Christ neither had nor could haue any place My next proposition which you left vntouched is that y Defenc. pag. 85. li. 28. Christ our Redeemer suffered for vs as deeply yea deeper then any of vs here do suffer or can suffer This proposition no way helpeth your intent and besides wanteth both parts and proofs for if the whole were granted as you offer it you can neuer thence conclude that Christ suffered the true paines of the damned till first you shew that all the faithfull in this life do likewise suffer the true paines of the damned which were a monstrous miscreance meet for your new made hell Such desperate and reprobate assertions as haue no touch of proofe nor taste of trueth you place in the foreward of your fanseries But Christ you say suffered as deepely as euer any of vs heere doth or can suffer Then did Christ by your doctrine not only doubt and distrust but euen despaire his owne saluation for so haue many done that after were recouered and restored by grace and so you wrappe the Sonne of God not onely within the guilt but within the verie sincke of our sinnes inherent now not in the temptation but in the perswasion of the heart for therewith haue many of the Elect beene grieuously afflicted for the time This it is for a man of your vnderstanding to wade in waters aboue your heigth and to finde no bottome till you come to the depth of all impietie which you do not intend but can not auoid by the consequence of your positions Two lines and lesse in my Conclusion euen where you complaine for want of answer would haue eased you of all these frantike imaginations had you but soberly considered them or aduisedly sought to disproue them Christes z Conclus pa. 286. li. 10. faith I sayd admitted no doubting his loue excluded all fearing his hope reiected all despairing Which of these doe you or dare you denie Whether doubting be infidelitie S. Iames sayth a Iames 1. Let a man aske in faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nothing doubting or staggering sor let not such a man thinke that he shall receiue any thing from the Lord. That condition our Sauiour addeth vnto saith b Matth. 21. If you shall haue faith and not doubt for doubting as Paul writeth proceedeth from infidelity Abraham c Rom. 4. doubted not of the promise of God through vnbeliefe but was strengthened in faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being fully assured that he which had promised was able to performe it Therefore Christ sayd to Peter d Matth. 14. O thou of little faith why didst thou doubt and to all the rest e Matth. 8. Why are you fearefull ô you of little faith So that faith is a full and constant perswasion of Gods promises without all feare or doubt that we may be deceiued or defrauded Then must there in Christ be either no doubting or small faith And if vnbeliefe in vs be sinne what was it in Christ after so many and so cleere euidences of Gods owne voice and oath vnto him f Psal. 89. I haue sworne to Dauid my seruant Thy seed will I stablish for euer And againe I haue sworne once by mine holinesse I will not faile Dauid his seed shall endure for euer And likewise g Psal. 110. The Lord sware and will not repent Thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedech After these oathes promises and speeches of God from heauen to the manhood of Christ all doubting and distrusting is most hainous and horrible sinne which if any man attribute to Christ he is worse then a Iew or a Turke For they know him not we doe know him to be the Sonne of God and Trueth it selfe Set this downe for an infallible rule in Christian religion as indeed it is the foundation of all our saith for if Christ might be a liar and a sinner we are but deceiued in trusting to him and none of these inward torments or deepe sufferings which you desperately dreame of can be fastâ—…ed on Christ. So long as Christes heart and spirit stood fixed and immoued in the graces and promises of God no such strange doubt or feare temptation or torment as you talke of could afflict him No force of Satan no sting of sinne no storme of wrath could confound him or amaze him In vs these things are possible because the corruption of flesh and want of grace often pinch vs with remorse of conscience and remembrance of sinne committed but in Christ there could be no such thing And all your drifts to make him like vs in our sinfull affections and conflicts with confusion and desperation as they haue no ground in the Scriptures so are they weake and wicked in that you measure the fulnesse of Christes graces and his freedome from all sinne by the faithlesse and fearefull assaults that sinne and Satan make on the corrupt and irregenerate parts and powers of our soules Wherefore as I first resolued so I now reiterate by reason of your importunitie that h 1 Iohn 4. perfect loue in Christ did cast out feare and i Rom. 5. reioycing vnder hope made him with patience to expect the performance of Gods promises and with all obedience to endure whatsoeuer the counsell of God had soredetermined to be done vnto which must be farre from Christ Is Infidelitie and distrust no sinne with you that you make it common to Christ with vs or are doubting and fearing no parts of infidelity or what feare or doubt of his saluation could incomprehensibly torment the soule of Christ except his heart did first encline from faith to feare and so apprehend the griefe of Gods fauour lost or in imminent danger to be lost You haue giuen vs three variations of this incomprehensible and infinite paine and griefe which should torment the soule of Christ and yet you
Christ meerely and alone without the merit of his soules and mindes proper suffering our whole ransome were payed The chiefe merit of Christes obedience and patience I referre to the soule of Christ since the body of it selfe hath neither will nor sense much lesse vertue or merit and the sufferings of Christes soule by affections of feare and sorow I haue often affirmed I neuer dâ—…ed The death of Christs soule I vtterly disclaime to haue beene any part of our redemption and so doe the ancient Fathers before me with one consent That you keepe close as it were confession and beare men in hand that I vpholde the meere sufferings of Christes flesh alone without any communion of his soule or minde What tricks you containe in those termes of the soules proper suffering I little regard when you proue that which you pretend by more then saying I will take the paines to refute it with more then denying o Defenc. pag. 89 li. 7. As for our comparing the paines of Christes suffering with the paines euen of the reprobate in this life I sâ—…e not that you or any man liuing can finde fault therewith onely set aside their sinfull suffering which alwayes I testifie that Christ was most free from It is well that not the Scriptures but you compare the paines of Christes sufferings with the reprobate whereby the Reader may perceiue that the first foundation of your new faith is your owne fansie and the best bulwarke you haue for it is the presumption of your owne braine whereto you leane without if not against the Scriptures Then Christ yet at last shall be alwayes and altogether free from all sinfull suffering and then how might his soule or mind apprehend any doubt or feare of Gods fauour towards him or any the least distrust or staggering of his saluation or our redemption his faith and hope standing sure and vnshaken as also the full perswasion of Gods loue towards his person and acceptation of his obedience 〈◊〉 and wholly possessing his heart what feare or sorow common to him with the reprobate can you imagine in the soule or spirit of Christ Tell vs what Christ apprehended or conceiued that should torment his minde with equall anguish as it doth the reprobate Your generall phrases of Gods proper wrath and of the extreamest spirituall punishments are but hiues to hide your poisoned honie in expresse particularly your conceits that we may know whether they sauour of trueth and faith or of errour and infidelitie p Defenc. pag. 89. li 11. Yea I doubt not but we may compare Christes sufferings in his agonies euen with those of the 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 Neither doe I doubt of your boldnesse in this and all other caâ—…s but if you will speake of the Christian faith you must shew vs what Scripture teacheth you to compare Christes sufferings in the Soule with the reprobate or with the damned They be great aduentures to vndertake of your owne head to torment the soule of Christ with diuels in like maner as the damned are or to giue him the same 〈◊〉 of Gods wrath vpon himselfe that the reprobate and damned haue For either of which if you can shew any Prophet Euangelist or Apostle that sayd so before you we will holde you excused q Tertull aduersus Hermogenem If it be not written feare the curse appointed for those that augment or diminish the word of God For my part I haue learned to say with S. Austen r Aug. contra literas Petilia li. 3. ca. 9. In any thing touching our faith if an Angell â—…om 〈◊〉 teach otherwise then we haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospell let him be accursed For Hilarius dâ—… Patris filij essentia of Gods matters there is no speech or doctrine left vs besides the word of God So that if the Scriptures make these comparisons and resemblances we easily admit them if you take vpon you to deuise them as new points of faith we as heartily detest them And if I be not deceiued you will hardly make either of these comparisons good by the sacred Scriptures For you were euen now very busie with certaine places of the Apostle which to my iudgement proue the plaine contrarie Christ t Hebr. 2. must 〈◊〉 like his brethren in all things and consequently in all his sufferings But neither the 〈◊〉 nor the damned are Christes brethren His sufferings therefore were not like theirs And how could Christes sufferings be glorious if they were like the reprobate or the damned Haue the reprobate or the damned any glory in their 〈◊〉 as Christ had in his Father sayd he the houre is come glorifie thy Sonne speaking of the houre of his pasâ—…on By his sufferings then Christ was glorified and declared to be the Sonne of God which if you attribute to the reprobate and the damned you must new alter the whole course of God counsels and iudgements Desenc pag. 89. li. 16. Touching the vehemencie of the paine Christ suffered 〈◊〉 as â—…terly and as sharply yea I may say in nature the very same as the damned doe It must be the selfe same in euery point afore it can be as sharpe and as bitter as theirs Had the damned but one kinde of paine the comparison were the sooner examined but they haue exceeding many both outward and inward and all these must be common to Christ with the damned before Christes paines in sharpnesse and vehemencie can be equall with theirs The griefe of reiection confusion and desperation they inwardly feele the worme of conscience the horror of darknesse the paine of fire breedeth them intolerable torments Yea what one thing doth the Scripture specifie of the paines of hell which with any religion you may attribute to Christ Your generall refuge of Gods wrath will doe you no good not onely the Scriptures but your selfe now at last acknowledge the faithfull feele a taste of Gods infinite wrath who yet I trust feele not the sharpenâ—…sse nor bitternesse of eternall damnation If then Gods wrath in some sort be common to all the suffâ—…rings of men iust and vniust in this life and the next what sequence hath your supposall that because Christ felt Gods wrath in some measure he therefore felt the very sharpnâ—…sse of hell paines x Defenc. pag. â—…9 li 20. If you say the extreamest paines of punishment can not be where sinne is not that is true neither indeed can the least paines be where there is no sinne You be likely to vnderstand weighty matters that so much mistake ordinary points of speech That Christs suâ—…ings must be void of all sinne inferreth not only the integritie of his nature and puritie oâ—… his actions but the sincerity of his affections which could not be distempered in â—…im by any excesse of feare or sorow but as in minde he did apprehend the trueth and not erre by doubting of Gods fauour towards him so in feare and sorow