John who saw they was come said the Saints had the Anointing within them to teach them and they needed not any man to teach them but as the Anointing teacheth them and the Apostles brought them to the Light within them and the Law within them and Christ bid them not to follow the false Prophets but he would dwell in them and his spirit should lead them into all truth Joh. 14. and 2 Cor. 4. Heb. 8. 1. And whereas thou saist We have cryed against the Priests and Teachers as Hirelings and deceivers coveteus scandalous c. and their Hearers as ignorant superstitious formal and that every charge hath much of truth in it Ans Here thou art made to confess something to the Truth as the Devil did to the Son of God and hath judged thy self too for thou was one that we cryed against at Manchester and our testimony stands against thee as it did who professes what thou art not dost thou not remember Elizabeth Hulme John Abraham James Harrison and what a rage and madness thou was in when they came to thee to declare the things of God and how thou lift up thy Fist of wickedness against John Abraham and could not hold thy violent hands and the guilt in you all have answered our testimony and thou yet was never able to stand to truths face nor answer the truth if thou had thou would have answered the Queries e're now And we are not of them which cries loe here is Christ or loe there is Christ but as the Apostle saith Col. 1. 27 28. Christ in you the hope of Glory whom we preach warning every man and teaching every man that we might present every man perfect in Christ Jesus and Christ was not like to be found amongst you when you denyed the Light and they that were innocent that had received the Light quickly saw you and this Light hath and will stop all your mouthes that denies it and the Light is not a shew but the substance And thou would seem to hide thy self from the carnal proud professors as if thou wert not of them but they that knows thee knows what thou hast been and what thou art yet and all thy Congregations which thou hast gathered where hast thou left them now so that which thou who denies the Light hath been doing is but to beat the Air. And all that were sober and feared God seeing you persecuting us and reviling against the Light and against the Spirit and what unchristian actions they used against us was a cause through quiring into truth to cause them to forsake you who denyed the Light of Jesus who broke into confusion amongst your selves and biting at truth and biting at one another till you were consumed one of another And so the good meaning people that did not make Godliness a game as you did imbraced the Light of Jesus and came into the fellowship of the Light and the Gospel which is the power of God Rom. 1. And whereas thou saist The well meaning people easily fell into their Net to do homage to their new God in the mean while the ignorant rash Priests and people who dealt with them lost themselves and injured the truth and gave this people ground to glory over them Ans If the well meaning people fell to us then the ill meaning people staid with you and this manifests you are fallen from truth when the well meaning forsook you And whereas thou saist they did homage to their new God Nay it s that God and Christ which 〈◊〉 ever was and will be whom you for sook and denyed as thou denies still and mocked with your words like them that opposed the Apostles and called it a new Doctrine a setter forth of strange Gods Acts and so you did injure the truth as thou dost now and it is Christs Net which they were catched in which kept the good and threw out the bad according to thy own Words and as you have injured the truth so hath God brought his judgments upon you and thou hath given us as much cause to glory over thee as ever any did but our glorying was and is in the Lord God and his Son Jesus Christ who hath dearly bought us with his Blood and thou that denies the Light crucifies Christ afresh and puts him to open shame And whereas thou saist the right course to deal with us is to distinguish between good and evil Ans This thou hast not done as is manifest in thy Book but like one of the false Prophets who follows thy own spirit and sees nothing but puts darkness for light and light for darkness and thou hast manifested thy unrighteous dealing to us in all thy Book and thou dost not own the good nor imbrace it nor cherish it how canst thou when thou denies the Light of Christ for that which doth make manifest and reproves is light and all things is manifest by the Light and this Light thou hatest and chofest the darkness Ephesians 5. and loves it more then the Light John 3. And whereas thou saist Thou will joyne issue with us to bear witness against hireling Priests against Tythes against superstitious carnal Worship against swearing against corrupt worldly customes herein joyne with them are they at least in shew for the power of Godliness as well as the forme for worshipping in spirit and truth for justice for Righteousness sobriety mercy gravity and whatsoever is excellent in life and conversation so am I yea whatsoever they can make appear to be evil that I would east off with as much indignation as they and what further good they can shew that I have not learned that would I gladly imbrace Ans When did John Wiggan bear Testimony against Hireling Priests and Tyth-takers should not John Wiggan had Tythes at Manchester to make up his Wages and was not he a Priest at his Chappels where he put off his dark Ware denying the Light of Christ and now when John hath lost his Chappels he will cry against them and their formality now when he cannot get them Oh subtilty but would he cry against them if he had 100. or 200 l. a Year given him nay would he not bless them for it and how can thou worship God in spirit truth who denies Christ the Light spirit of God to be in every man Thou art a false Worshipper thy Worship is false the Lord moved us to cry against thee and that in thy high dayes and must thou talk of crying against corrupt Customs and be in them thy self for thy evil words hath corrupted thy manners and thou art not for the power of Godliness and thou art far from the modesty gravity or justice or righteousness thy language bewrayes thee as thy lyes and slanders with mocking scoffing reproachful words and thy sawey language to Friends and especially to Margaret Fells which shames both Learning and Breeding and that most excellent thing in life and conversation thou hast
day by the Scriptures of Truth but manifested thy self further in error and as for detecting our persons and carriages thou canst not but thy own carriage is detected and so thou maist take shame that pleads against Truth but God will honour his Truth and them that stands for it and happy would it be for thee if a place of repentance were found for thee though thou maist have had many Esaus Tears proceeded from thee through thy Agonies And the unsavory fruits thou speaks of is thy own by which thou deceives the Ignorant and the least that is simple in the truth discernes thee thy spirit and principle and are reclaimed from the error of thy way and that makes thee so rage against them And as for thy additional accompt thou hast given forth by discourse concerning the Light in every man and thy interpreting the Scriptures which indeed is perverting the Scriptures by thy addition as will be further manifested and proved And as for thy saying if any of them shall yet persist to maintain their error here you will find an offer further to debate the difference betwixt us before any person in Authority Answ It 's Truth we maintain against thy errors as we have done to all thy Brethren before thee till this day who are all come to nought who have made such havock upon us and our Goods we have maintained it and shall maintain it with our Lives to Death against thy errors before what Magestrate thou wilt as after will be manifest or when thou wilt or where thou wilt for its truth we stand for and suffer for And as for the perticulars that thou wilt suffer for as well as we and art not in the same Principle Bower and spirit as the Saints be in in that thou suffers but as an evil doer And whereas thou talkest of a measure of the Spirit of God given unto thee this is but to cover thy lies and errors and to deceive withal for if thou wert in the measure of the Spirit of God thy self thou wouldst not deny it in others and so in this thou art an enemy in thy Spirit to every thing that we stand for because thou art not in the Spirit And whereas thou sayest This is a relation of the occasion manner of a debate had in the Castle at Lancaster the 17. day of the 1. Moneth â—â—â—monly called March 1664. between me John Wiggan and George Fox John Stubbs and many other of the people called Quakers about the Light within Answ The dispute was not George Foxes nor John Stubbs but Thomas Curwens and William Wilsons but George Fox and John Stubbs liberty being granted George Fox hearing such gross errors laid down by John Wiggan he spake something to contradict them by Scriptures they being so gross and manifest and so this Book of Wiggans is not only a relation of that but of many other things of his own addition and private things sent-abroad by him and the truth of it all may be seen in the following answer And what I Tho. Curwen said to thee as thou passed through the great Hall thou being a deceiver of the people I bid thee leave of thy deceiving as yet thou couldest never clear thy self of being a deceiver nor hast not done in thy Book And whereas thou sayest thy answer was mild to this purpose said thou so Consider well what thou hast said and whether thou canst make good thy words and tell me as I come back whom I have deceived and wherewith I have deceived any or how thou canst prove me a deceiver Answ Here thou praises thy self of thy mildness if another had done it it had been better for thee what was thy mildness to me in thy Chamber when I came to discourse with thee of the things of God thou laid violent hands upon me and like to have torn my Coat off my back to haile me out of thy Chamber and this was not Christian like and whereas thou lyer bid me tell thee as thou came back that is a lye and thy voice I knew to be the voice of a stranger and now thou hast made it manifest who denies Christ the Light to be saving and whereas thou wouldest know whom thou hast deceived there came a Woman from London to thee to declare against thee whom thou hast long deceived And there came a Man from Stopphed whom thou had deceived to cry against thee and there came James Parke to cry against thee and to discourse with thee of thy deceivableness who saw thy deceit and turned away from thee when they came to the light of Christ Jesus which manifested thee and saw thee to be a Preacher against Christ the light and all may see herein what is the end of thy Preaching when thy work is to bring people from the Heavenly light of Christ Jesus within them and lead them into imaginations and whimsies and fancies of thy own brain and many others about Manchester which might be instanced which some of them hath been with thee here which thou long kept from the light of Christ Jesus within them who now praise the Lord that they are come from under the bondage and have found Christ their Saviour and Leader and Light which thou denyest And whereas thou sayest that I was rash my censures groundless in saying thou taught the way and know it not thy self Answ Thou hast manifested thou dost not know the way for there is but one way to God who is Christ the Light that doth enlighten everyman who doth enlighten the Gentiles is the glory of Israel and the Salvation to the ends of the Earth and Christ saith I am the Light and I am the way to the Father and no man comes to the Father but by me And this Light in every man thou denies to be saving which we say it is saving or condemning to them that love it it 's saving and to them that hate it it 's condemning and so it 's manifest that thou art a confesser of him and a teacher of him in words as other Sects are and the Devil could preach Christ in words without him and said thou art the Son of God as thou dost who denies him to be a Light in all men savingly and so doth all the Sects in Christendom that preaches Christ in words for an end and their gain as thou did at Manchester at thy Chapels and preached up thy Independant way and thou left the people in delusion didst thou know Christ then though thou preacht him in words and so doth all these before mentioned know Christ the way and such as held forth the Doctrine of Devils Commanding to abstain from Meats and forbiding to Marry who went about to deceive the Christians and people of Christ the way in words for some end but not in truth and Antichrists are not they such as pretend to preach Christ in words and yet knows him not who is a mystery Answer me plainly didst
thou ever hear Christs voice at any time or hast thou seen his shape for if thou hadst known him the way thou would not have deny'd his Light to be saving to the World And hast thou not read Collos of some that intruded into these things they never saw which neglected Christ the body and head who is the way and Light c. And whereas thou sayes it is not possible to teach the way and know it not Mat. 2. 4 5. 27 28. 12. the Pharisees and the Priests preached Christ to come to Herod and told when he should be born by the Scriptures and yet knew him not to be the way when he came but persecuted him when he came as thou may know by the Scriptures when Christ rose and yet thou knowest him not to be the Way the Truth and the Life but denies him to be the saving Light spoken of in Joh. 1. And my words was not harsh nor rash censure but in plainness and truth as thou hast made it appear And as for me William Wilson I know nothing else thou livest in but beggarly Rudiments who denies Christ to be a saving Light who enlightens every man who shuts up the Gates of Heaven against men and will neither go in thy self nor suffer others to go in And shew me by plain Scripture where Christ calls taking of Bread and Wine an Ordinance for we do drink of the Vine and and eat of the Bread that comes down from Heaven And my words were neither harsh nor rash therefore thou dost us wrong to say so and to blame us and exclaime against us These Queries as followeth were sent to John Wiggan to answer by me Thomas Curwen and are unanswered to this day and he complaines he wanted time and hath had them above halfe a year when such a man as he is looked upon might have answered them in halfe a day 1 Query Whether thy way never fell 2 Where be all the daubers 3 Whether all the Ministers of Adam's house in the fall daubed not with untempered morter 4 Whether a man while he is upon the Earth shall be made free from the body of Death and sin while he is on this side the Grave 5. And whether Christ doth not enlighten every one that comes into the World with a saving Light 6. Whether is Bread and Wine Christ the substance yea or nay 7. And how long hast thou taken Bread and Wine in Remembrance of Christs Death till he come 8. And whether or no when he is come thou will take it in Remembrance of him 9 And which is the nearest to take a thing in Remembrance of his Death or to come into his Death 10 And whether or no thou thinkest to come any nearer to Christs death then taking Bread and Wine in Remembrance of him 11 And whether or no doth thou think to come any nearer to Christs death then to take Bread Wine in Remembrance of his death and so keep alive in the old nature and is not this the deceiver 12 Hast thou known the death the pangs and the sorrow and art thou become a fool for Christs sake and is the wisdom of the world become foolishness to thee and in what place boundest thou thy own 13 And how comest thou to receive that which is foolishness to the world and how was thou awakened out of sleep and when did the Grave open and when did the Prisoner shew himself forth 14 And when did the tongue of the Dumb sing 15 And when was the tongue of the first birth silent 16 And when was thou come to thy wits end 17 And how hast thou watered thy Couch 18 And what is the tongue of the Learned 19 And what is the Gray Hairs 20 And what is it that Anti-Christ and the false Prophets ravened from and where was it 21 And when did the Keepers of the House tremble and the strong man bow himself 22. And hast thou the same power and spirit to baptize and give Bread and Wine as the Apostles had and hast thou heard the voice of Christ as they did 23 And seeing thou took offence at me for calling thee a deceiver what is the true way where is it whether all Mankind be enlightened by it and whether it be within man or without 24 And whether or no thou hast seen it or hear it or heard the voice of God at any time or seen his shape Answer these Queries in a Scripture way in writing and bring forth thy deeds to the Light or else I do intend to stick a Coppy of them on thy Door tomorrow From thy friend Thomas Curwen the fifth day of the first Moneth 1664. directed for John Wiggan these And these Queries were sent to John Wiggan to be answered by him and because I said if he would not answer them I would stick them on the door tomorrow he sayes he has but a short time and yet in this half year he hath not answered them but he hath published them in his Book to his shame without an answer manifesting his insufficiency to resolve doubts and Questions in weighty matters to shuffle them off to the Reader he calls them frivilous and they stand still unanswered by him for if he had told us that he had been uncapable or unable of answering them we would so have taken it but he being a man so much looked upon and professing such high things he was able to resolve doubts and questions which if he had been a man as he is looked upon he would have been ashamed to have published them to the Reader unanswered and we did not boastingly send the Queries to thee nor sought advantage against thee but that the plain truth might have been manifested by thee if thou hadst had it but its manifest to the contrary and the Queries are pythy and full and some of them Queries about mans Salvation but thou scornes and scoffes at them and calls them frivilous and sayest thou had some weighty matter which we do not know any thou hadst without it was to study something against the saving Light to preach to thy people which was not a thing of so great weight who runs one while to thee and another while to other Priests who are unestablisht like thy self And in thy Letter to my first paper thou seems to be offended because that I said that thou was offended for calling thee a Deceiver of the people c. it manifests thou art offended by thy speaking of it so much abroad And as concerning my saying thou taught the way to others and knew it not thy self that is answered before and I did speak forth the words of truth and soberness to thee as being often burthened with hearing thy strange voice savouring thee to be out of the Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures And for making it appear whom thou hast deceived that I have done before and whom thou hast deceived and how in drawing them from
under a feigned humility and now is brought to light Praises to the Lord God for ever for thy disputing is against Christ the Light c. to be saving so thou art not like to be a true Preacher of Christ And Thomas Curwens second Paper wherein he shewes John Wiggan he has not answered his Queries and how that he would come into his Chamber to discourse about one Query which John Wiggan had chosen out that Query which speaks of Christ being the saving Light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the World and this Christian way of discourse John Wiggan denyed though before he had spoken of a meeting betwixt him and our Friends when and where a meeting might be had in a quiet way and when we came into his Chamber he having put it to us before when and where which we looked upon his own Chamber to be the best and civil'st he contradicts his own words and again challenges us down into the Shire-Hall and thou disputing about this Query did not satisfie me concerning all the other I stuck the Paper on the Door according to my word which thou hast neither answered in Writing nor word to this day and my word is made good to thee or any rational man Concerning such as get the form of Godliness and preaches Him and knowes him not and thou geting the Apostles words and out of their life and power thou art he that wrongest the Apostles and whereas thou sayest the Apostles useth no such words that is cleared before And my second Paper which was brought to thee was not with that purpose to disturb thee but that thou might have seen thy self if thou would not have shut thine eyes and here I clear things over again to thee if thou wilt not hide thy self from the Light thou may see and that I neither wrong the Apostles nor thee but am one with the Apostles against such as thou art And whereas thou faith thou art not inclined to multiply words to occasion strife and yet thou contradicts thy self and multiplys many words to no purpose against the saving Light of Christ and which is saving who said he would give for a Covenant of Light and is the peace between God and man and that which thou multiplys is against him which occasions nothing but strife and confusion and not peace for the Peace is in Christ the Light which thou canst not abide to hear on that every man has a saving Light because it marrs thy trade and thy great Diana would be taken away to wit thy Gain for preaching Christ the Light mar'd the great Diana and all the Workmens Gain as thou may read in the Acts And thou said thou would meet us in a spirit of Love and meekness but it proved otherwise when thou appeared at the dispute And whereas thou sayest in thy Answer to Thomas second Letter that thou wouldest treat with Thomas about the Light and any other point and saith I was over confident in saying I was mistaken if thou thinkest I should leave it to thee to appoint time and place and had left it to me before both when and where as may be seen in thy Letter and here is thy contradiction and when I had appointed the Meeting when and where according to thy own Challenge when now thou say'st after thou had left it to me when and where and we appointed thy own Chamber then thou deny'st us coming there except thou hadst invited us thou camest often into our Chamber without inviting and thou denyed us for appointing the place and said we were over confident and so forsook thy own proposition and appointed another place and so this is no honour for to publish abroad such things and this is thy seeking after truth which was but a pretence and not in reality and friends did meet with thee and did discourse with thee and when the day came thou stood not to that neither but found some excuse and when thou didst come Friends spoke to thee concerning thy own words and promises and how thou didst not stand to thy words promises and time in thy Challenge but shuffled and altered and as thou sayest falsly that thee was challenged by us first that is false for the Queries was sent to thee to answer in Writing or else we would stick them on the Door and thou vapoured and challenged and left it to us and then denyed it again said this day and the other day and brake thy own word and promise which caused many to come out of the Country to see thy own folly and thou was the occasion of the Dispute for we would have discoursed with thee in a Christian way which thou denyedst it in thy Chamber which we would have granted thee to have come into Ours if thou hadst desired it and all thy dayes work was to stand in opposition against Truth Christ the Light that enlightens every man and instead of bringing people to the Light thou turns them to darkness from the Light And whereas thou say'st because I did not set thy Letter by mine upon the Door therefore I savour of a fleshly spirit in divers Circumstances That which thou has particularized I answer for not setting it upon the Door because it was not an Answer to my Queries therefore thou savours more of a fleshly spirit who did not answer them nor convinc'd me wherein I had done wrong And whereas thou sayest Thomas Curwen and William Wilson when we came to conferr with thee about the Meeting according to thy former Challenge which thou villifies us and sayes we came to provoke thee and with many heavy censures as John Cowert can witness now ye people of Lancaster may see what a sufficient witness he hath brought to be a witness for him who is a common Drunkard this you may judge what spirit his Book came from for thou at that time in thy Chamber didst lay down for Doctrine and Principles that the Scriptures was the Author of thy faith who art ignorant of the Scriptures and of the Ministers who taught the Christians that Christ Jesus was the Author and finisher of their faith and as for hard or heavy censures we deny them for we speak the truth in plainness and thou wouldst not meet according to thy own Challenge but puting us off from time to time that was the occasion of our coming unto thee to thy Chamber but thou should have set down thy own carriage and behaviour in envy and malice towards us in thy Chamber who sweld and puft and bid us go out of thy Chamber why did we come there after thou had challenged us for we came to thee about thy Challenge and the Meeting and thou in a fury cryed get you out get you out of my Chamber what do you do here As though we could not be admitted into thy presence thou was so high and scornful and for thy saying thou was forced to intreat us to go out of
thy Chamber thou was past intreating thou had like to have laid violent hands upon me as thou didst afterwards and if thou hadst not given us a meeting being thine own Challenge how could we judge otherwise but that-thou dar'st not stand to thy word it 's a lye in saying we provoked thee to it it was thy own Challenge and then thou speaking with R. C. and R. J. about the Meeting and appointed when the day and hour should be and that thou was willing to give Thomas Curwen and others a meeting according to thy former Challenge and thou would dispute about Christ the Light that enlightens every man that comes into the World by the Lords assistance but this Lord failed thee for poor old Henry Wood a labouring man that cannot read a word on a Book gravelled thee so that thou was not able to answer him and as for R. C. and R. J. what language dost thou give them now who accounted them sober men before thy mind is soon altered and changed John Wiggan disprove that Christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the World with a saving Light or that the Light where with every man is enlightened is not saving Mark people the Light in it self is not saving and then the insufficiency is in the Light according to his judgment but we say there is sufficiency in the Light for God saith my Grace is sufficient which none can deny but that the Grace is this Light and secondly that Christ the Light which doth enlighten all c. that that is not saving is contrary to the Scriptures which saith Christ is the Salvation to the ends of the Earth Christ saith I am the Light John 1. 8. 12. and this Light Christ is sufficient to save and to give the knowledge of God Cor. 2. 4. but as Christ saith in John 3. 20. Some hates the Light and as Job saith some rebell against it in whose steps John Wiggan thou art found And whereas thou sayest first that nothing be asserted but what may be proved by Scripture and that nothing be determined but according to the Scriptures in thy Answer thou could make nothing good that thou didst assert against the Light of Christ which thou opposes for that which thou didst assert was against the plain Scripture and the words of Christ in which thou confutes thy self whose determination if it had been possible was to oppose the Scripture instead of asserting by Scripture what thou did'st assert Secondly Whereas thou sayest that the Meeting may be peaceable and quiet without railing or reproachful speeches and that the whole dehate may be carried on with a spirit Love and meekness Answ John thou and thy people quickly broke this order dost thou not remember what a heat and passion thou was in cocking up thy Hat like a Ranter and thy people of such a heat that John Berley was fain to stand up and reprove one of them and G. F. often bid you be sober for the things of God was weighty and should be spoken of in the fear of God and that he should not be so rash and hasty Thirdly The Meeting may be orderly and without confusion that is that one may have as much time allowed to speak as another and that but one speak at once and that none disturbe him that is speaking Answ I wonder John Wiggan that thou shouldest not be ashamed to publish such things in the sight of men for thou was the first man that made a disturbance that spake when another was speaking to wit William Wilson and afterwards when George Fox was speaking and afterwards thy people ran into the same and so broke your own order and run into confusion and when thou should have answered to the people to the matter thou fell a preaching to the people and when I Thomas Curwen would have stood up and have spoken thou would not let me so that I see thou art nothing but a man of fair words so thou didst not give time but thou brakest the time and therefore was we forced to cry for order so oft' amongst you 4ly And whereas thou sayest that the Meeting may continue three houres and at the most not exceed four because of the occasions of friends afterwards if these be concented unto let him that is appointed to treat with me subscribe his name c. and what we could not agreed to R. C. R. J. let him know Answ Most of this was done according to his desire and let him take what time he would to oppose Christ the light which lightens every Man that comes into the World and though he had his will granted all he did was to no purpose And all people may see whether this was a rational Letter or no and how that we would not limit the truth to an hour as he did before for the Spirit of truth is not to be limited though that we let him take his own proffer and go away when he would and thou should not have spoken of points wherein this paper differed from thine but thou should have perticularized them that the Reader might have seen them and whereas thou saidst we said that thou durst not meet us therefore thou sentest another paper why if thou had said thou would not have met us thou might have said so for it was thy own Challenge at first and not ours and thou should have named them that said so for no Man put thee upon it at first to speak against the light of Christ but thy own mind and thou sayest in thy next Letter about the third hour in the fore-part of the Day which I call the ninth hour and Jo. Wiggan was it but three houres since it was Day to the ninth hour I pray thee answer me these natural things for thou hast not answered me the spiritual And so afterwards when thou hadst denyed thy first Proposition to us that we should appoint time and place we left it to thee to appoint time and place and so took thy own who had contradicted thy former who would not grant to us that which we granted to thee and whereas thou sayest my friend and I urged thee to dispute against the Light of Christ thou say'st not true for it was thy own Challenge for we but bid thee make good thy Challenge and that which thou had so boldly asserted against Christ the Light And as for thy saying thou would maintain in the strength of the Lord thy assertion to wit that Christ did not enlighten every Man that comes into the World with a saving light neither that the Light wherewith all Men is enlightened is saving and this neither thee nor all thy people with all the strength you had could do but that which thou did maintain was to your own shame And whereas thou sayest thou would do it through the strength of the Lord that was false for all thy strength was to fight against the Lord who is the Saviour
of all men especially of them that believe so saith ahe Apostle 1. And whereas thou say'st over and over again that all things should be proved by the Scripture and thou proves nothing to the matter 2. And whereas thou say'st again and again that the Meeting may be peaceable and quiet and thou was the first man that disturbed it And whereas thou say'st the words were left out as railing and reproachful speeches we thought thou would call the plain truth rayling and thou hoping that the thing would be so carried on it was so on our part but thou and thy people brake out into disorder and scornful speeches that thou was often reproved for thy immodesty and as I said before thou was the first man that was disorderly as thou speaks on over again as also thou was the first man that very uncivilly brake the order of one speaking at once neither didst thou observe it and as for limiting time and hour that is answered before and seeing the Meeting was put off with a pretence by the Jaylor as thou sayest we met with thee another day according to thy appointment and we know thou didst make an Oration before the meeting and then propounded that which thou could not maintain That Christ doth not enlighten every man with a saving Light that comes into the World c. And I John Stubbs stood up and told thee that Christ did enlighten every man that comes into the World with a saving Light and Richard Cubban did not alter what thou had spoken and written as the Reader may see in thy Book and why dost thou say that I Richard Cubban was perswaded with much ado for when thou would not stand to what thou had written and spoken then I stood to what thou would agree to and this was but a shift from thy own words we lookt thou should have made every word good thou had writen and spoken but thou shifts from thy own words and therefore we let thee have what words thou would stand to And whereas thou sayest I John Wiggan proceeded to prove premising first that the Question was not whethere there be some Light that comes into the World nor whether Christ do not enlighten true Believers with a saving Light forasmuch as I denyed not but did affirme there was some Light in every man that comes into the World and true Believers was enlightened with a saving Light Answ In thy assertion there was no mention of unbelievers as all may see in thy Book but thy assertion is Christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the World with a saving Light then Believers are not according to thy words for thou sayest the Light wherewith every man is enlightened withal which we say is the Light of Christ is not saving and yet again thou contradicts thy self and saith Believers are lightened with a saving Light but and if Believers be enlightened with a saving Light and unbelievers be not how are they then condemned for their unbeliefe this Question neither thee nor thy people could answer For thy proof that Christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the World with a saving Light thou sayest that Christ doth not enlighten no man but by his Spirit but Christ doth not give his Spirit to every man that comes into the World therefore he doth not enlighten every Man that comes into the World with a saving Light These words proves nothing at all but thy own ignorance of the Scriptures for God saith by his Prophet that he would pour out his Spirit upon all Flesh in the latter dayes And the Apostles saw those dayes come in their time as in Acts 2. and so this being proved that God pours out his Spirit upon all Flesh then he enlightens every man that comes into the World with a saving Light according to thy own assertion and so this overthrows thy opposing assertion And the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal 1 Cor. 12. 7. Now thou contradicts the Apostle here the true Minister he saith every man but thou gives him the lie and saith not every man God gives his Spirit unto but we say with the Apostles and the Prophets that God hath given his Spirit to all as in Joel 2. Acts 2. 1. Cor. 12. and they that do not profit in the Spirit are such as grieves it and quenches it and rebells against it as in Nehem. 9. and many other Scriptures which might be mentioned and as for the many Scriptures thou hast quoted they are to no purpose And thou sayest that thy first Proposition is clear from Isai 59. 12. this contradicts thy Proposition this speaks of the New Covenant Christ and in the 60. Chap. ver 3. and the 11. 12. how that the Gentiles that wicked people should come to the Light speaking of Christ and this quite makes against thee that saith Christ doth not enlighten every man with a saving Light and John 4. 16 17. but thou shouldst have read the 16. of John as well as that where thou may read they have the same Comforter the spirit of truth which leads the Saints into all Truth and how can thou or the World receive this Spirit which will not believe in the Light but hates it so this proves that all men have the Spirit and overthrowes thy assertion and Christ the Corner-stone breaks thee to pieces who opposes him and the plain Scripture which all people may read and leaves out that which makes against thee and Ephes 1. 17 18. because the Saints had the spirit of Wisdom and the eyes of their understandings was enlightened this thou brings to oppose Christ the Light and the Apostles Doctrine and Testimony that Christ did not enlighten every man that comes into the World and his Light is not saving which thou might as well deny Christ and say he is not saving who is the Light for none of these Scriptures doth say that Christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the World with a saving Light and John 16. 13. makes nothing for thy purpose and whereas thou sayest Neither is there any other way by which Christ doth infuse a saving Light into any man but by his Spirit 1 Cor. 2. 10 11 and 12. vers Answ I pray you all people read this Scripture over and see whether there be any such word as Infusing a saving Light into any man but by his spirit you may see how he wrongs the Apostles words with his own words and wrongs John's words also for we know that the natural man knows not the things of God but by the Spirit they are understood for the Natural man quenches and grieves the spirit of God and so walks despitefully against the spirit of Grace therefore this is no proof that he hath it not because he cannot discern the things of God for the things of God are opened to him as he obeyes the Spirit of God And thou saith the assumtion
are baptized and made to drink into the one spirit and doth the Apostle say to every Saint and every one that is baptized into the spirit and not to every man that comes into the World doth the Apostle say these words but are not his words every man and not every Saint and for the same words used in the 11. of Corinthians makes nothing for thy purpose that all men have not the spirit for that is spoken to them that came together into one place there the Apostle distinguishes his own words what shifts art thou put too for to pervert the Truth And whereas thou sayest this is said to every man of them and not every man that comes into the World and now people see whether the Apostle saith the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every one of you only and see how he contradicts himself with the Scriptures he brings and would pervert it for the Apostle saith the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man and not to every one of you 1 Cor. 12. 7. and it s given to them to profit withal whether they do or not and Gods spirit is poured upon all flesh and so this Scripture makes nothing for thy purpose And as for Exodus 19. 5. this doth not oppose Gods pouring out of his Spirit upon all Flesh Acts 2. and Nehem. 9. was brought how that God gave his good spirit to such as rebelled against him which thou affirmed that wicked men had not the Spirit of God and we know that the Jewes was called the Church and people of God though many of them fell for their wickedness but these that rebelled against it had it that were wicked people which thou denyed and said that no wicked people had the Spirit of God which after thou confessed and so hast overthrown thy Assertion and so thou saith and unsaith Secondly Thou saith though it be said he gave them his good Spirit it will not follow that every particular or individual Israelite had this good Spirit but such as were Israelites indeed Ans Thou hast confessed that the Righteous hath the Spirit of God so thou art to prove that the wicked hath it not and in Joshuah the first there is nothing spoken in that Chapter that God doth not pour out his Spirit upon all Flesh and that wicked men hath not the spirit there is nothing at all for his purpose all that reads it may see And as for Romans 2. 28 29. this confounds thee all that reads it may see for this brings people to the spirit of God in them that they may be Jewes in the spirit and the Romans its known they had been Heathens and wicked people yet they had the Spirit and all being not Israel that be of Israel Rom. 9. 6. we know that neither are all true Christians that saith they are Christians but are such Israelites and Christians that quench the spirit as thou dost but thou denies that all men have it and so opposes the very Doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets And whereas thou say'st that saying in the 9. of Nehem. must be reserved thus Moses had that good Spirit and God promised to take off that good spirit that was upon him and put upon the seventy Elders Numb 11. 17. thus Joshuah was a man in whom was the Spirit Num. 27. 18. and had another spirit than many others had and was fitted thereby for the conduct of the Congregation Numb 27. 16. but it cannot hence be inserted that all or any of the fleshly seed of Abraham or such as were born after the flesh had the spirit but such onely as were born after the Spirit Gall. 4. 23 29. Ans This is Wiggan's conclusion and meaning upon these Scriptures which he hath brought to prove that every man that comes into the world hath not the Spirit which are not to that purpose at all and doth the 9. of Nehem. speak that Joshuah had the spirit and Moses and that it was put upon the Elders and was these them that Rebelled and slew the Lords Prophets and turned against him what Prophets of the Lord did they slay because thou sayest that in Nehem. must be reserved that Moses had the good Spirit c. and they after the flesh or any of the fleshly seed of Abraham or such as were born after the flesh had not the spirit but such as were born after the spirit c. and Nehemiah said generally he gave his good spirit unto them not only to Moses and Joshuah but such as turned their backs on the Lord which thou cannot prove that ever Moses or Joshuah slew the Lords Prophets c. and that God deliver'd them into the hands of their enemy to be vexed and troubled and as for Numb 11. 17. doth not prove that the Children of Israel had not the spirit of God nor Numb 27. 16 18. for that saith God is the spirit of all flesh that proves against thee for the Children of Israel had heard the voice of God and knew the power of God when thy came out of Egipt and knew his Law and so he was called their God and so they knew the things of God which they could not have done but by the spirit of God and Moses said they were the Children of God and were a holy people Deut. 14. and they were to hearken diligently to the voice of God c. and he had set his people the Jewes the seed of Abraham after the flesh above all Nations of the Earth Deut. 28. and yet thou fayest all Israel nor any after the flesh had not the Spirit and Gall. 4. 23 29. doth not prove that Israel after the flesh had not the Spirit because they were not born after it for those that persecutes them that are born after the spirit grieves the spirit of God in themselves as Christ said the Kingdom of Heaven was in the Pharisees that persecuted and the Jewes that stopt their Eares and shut their Eyes and would not hear nor see least they should have been converted and healed and that which they stopt their Eares and shut their eyes too plainly appears it was the Spirit else what did they backslide and erre from and quench and grieve so it is evident that all these Scriptures thou hast brought is to no purpose to prove that all men hath not the spirit And whereas thou brings Gall. 4. 6. of such as were Sons of God they may and oft do grieve the spirit of God it doth not say they may and oft do grieve the Spirit in the Ephes 4. 30. but this thou brings that the Sons of God grieves the Spirit of God and quenches it and not the wicked was there ever the like heard for we say and the Scriptures saith it is the wicked that grieves the Spirit of God and thou sayest it is the Sons of God and as for Acts the 7. 5. which we alledge which speak of their rebelling vexing and resisting
as be without God in the World and strangers have not the spirit of God in themselves to grieve and vex thou saith for that which may be known of God was manifest in them and when they knew God they did not glorifie him as God but became vain in their imaginations and changed the truth of God into a lye such becomes strangers to the life of God Rom. 1. so these Scriptures overthrowes thy assertions and proves that wicked men grieves the spirit of God in themselves as well as in others And whereas thou saist Joh. 16. 7 8. if I depart I will send the Comforter c. thou saist by this promise Christ makes is to send the holy Ghost after his departure it is evident enough that this Scripture can be no proof of thy assertion to wit that every man that comes into the world hath not the holy Ghost for if every man had him when he came into the world what need was there he should be sent to them after Christs Ascension nay rather this shews they had him not before he was sent and so not till after Christs departure which destroyes thy opinion yet thou grants the holy Ghost is come after Christ ascended to the Apostles and to reprove the World so by this thou hast overthrown thy own opinion and assertion and we say that Christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the World and is a Saviour and the Light is saving and the holy Ghost is given to reprove the World and lead the Saints and it s proved before that the wicked resisted the holy Ghost before Christ came in the flesh and the holy Ghost was given to the Disciples after Christ was ascended and he should reprove the World but thou denies it and sayes they have it not and so demes plain Scripture and perverts our Words for our Words is That Christ doth enlighten every Man that comes into the World and sayes believe in the Light and the holy Ghost reproves the World for their unbelief in the Light which leads the Saints unto all Truth Secondly Thou sayes this promise is made particularly to the Disciples of Christ I will send him to you and not unto the World Answ Why dost thou wrong the Scriptures doth it not say when he comes He shall reprove the World of Sin Righteousness and Judgment of Sin because they believe not in him was he sent then only to the Disciples and not to the World read Iohn 26. 7 8 9 10. over again and see thy own ignorance and darkness and it s sufficiently proved that the wicked resisted the holy Ghost before Christ came as also they that killed the Prophets and also it s proved that Christ did send the Comforter to his Disciples after his Ascension which Spirit should reprove the World and though the Disciples were led into all truth by the Spirit by which they was to preach the Gospel to all Nations that the name of Christ might be spread over all this doth not disprove the spirit of reproving the World which thou in thy ignorance brings to prove that the World hath not the spirit to reprove them and in the 17. of John Christ saith that they all may be one as thou Father art in me and I in them that the World may believe that thou hast sent me Now how can the Worldbelieve if they have not the Light and the Spirit in them to believe in seeing Believers hath the witness in themselves and as for Christs Miracles and signes which some believed and some gain-said for some said he did Miracles by the Prince of Devils such stop their eares and closed their eyes least they should be converted as Acts 27. And thou sayest the holy Ghost was poured upon none but who repented and believed this is thy saying who art ignorant of the Scriptures which saith God would pour out his Spirit upon all Flesh Acts 2. Joel 2 Joh. 16. and such as repented and believed received the holy Ghost and others resisted it and quenched it so that here is a difference betwixt the Believers and Unbelievers for the one receives it the other rejects it though it be powred out upon all as Christ saith The Word was sowne in the Field which is the World it was sowne upon all Grounds upon the Thorney the Bryrie the High-way and the stony Ground but who brought forth fruit but the good Ground Mat. 13. and this sufficiently proves that the spirit is powred upon all flesh and Heb. 6. which speaks of such as were once enlightened and had tasted of the Heavenly gift and was made partakers of the Holy Ghost and tasted of the good Word of God and if they shall fall away it were impossible to renew them again to repentance seeing they crucify the Lord of Glory the Son of God afresh and put him to open shame and now Priest Wiggan sayes these wicked men had not the spirit nor was not enlightened yet they crucifyed Christ afresh and put him to open shame and thus with his wisdome he abuses the Scriptures though he hath long made a Trade of them And whereas thou makes a preamble upon our words wherein we replyed to thy assertion to wit that no wicked man had the spirit of God but only the Saints and thou did affirm that Balaam had not the spirit of God and we proved that Balaam had the spirit of God and heard the word and voice of God as Numh. 24. and now thou hast overthrown thy own assertion and confesses that Balaam and Saul had the spirit of God which thou confesses was wicked men and thus thou hast split thy self upon the Rock and overthrown thy Foundation for before thou affirmed none had the spirit of God but believers and Balaam prophecyed of great things to the Jewes and God spoke to him and we know there is a difference betwixt those that grieves the spirit and those that walks in it and before thou was ignorant of these Scriptures as Balaam and Saul having the spirit of God and now thou confesses that wicked men may have it upon some occasions but sayes all wicked men hath it not read over again Joh. 16. Acts the 2d That the Holy Ghost should reprove the World and God would powre out his spirit upon all flesh which before thou would limit only to Believers with thy dark imaginations and how darest thou preach the Scriptures which are the things of God to wicked people who sayes they have not the spirit of God and here again thou overthrowes thy assertion and thou sayes it is the spirit of God in the Ministers of Christ that must convince the World and when as we bid thee who lookes upon thyself to be a Minister of Christ convince us of any evill we have done thou shufled it off and said God must convince us and so confuted thy Assertion and whereas thou wrests and perverts the Scriptures and sayes Balaam did not see the Starr
of Jacob which it is said at a full stop by Balaam there shall come a Starr out of Jacob and a Scepter shall rise out of Israel Now how could he prophesie of it if he did not see it and this overthrowes thee and thy Assertion who never saw so far as Balaam did And whereas thou sayest they shall see him when every eye sees him by this thou confounds thy own assertion for none can see God or Christ without the Light of the Spirit and thou confesses every eye shall see him and we may help thee a little further for every tongue shall confess and every Knee shall bow at the name of Jesus if thou knew what his Name is then thou mightest know that the Light of the body is the Eye which sees God And whereas thou brings Job who said when I see for my self and with my eyes and this thou brings to prove that Israel and Balaam should not see till the latter day and thou maist read Job and confute thy self Job 42. who saith I have heard of thee by the hearing of the eare but now my eye seeth thee here Job was a true Prophet for before he said he should see him now he sayes he did see him and thus thy ignorance knowes not Scriptures appeareth and we know what the Believers saw and are satisfyed and we believe thou hast not come so far as Balaams Asse nor heard the voice of God as he did though thou would sit as a Judge of the World and in the Saints conditions And whereas thou sayest that the Spirit of God dwelt no more in Balaam then the Angel of the Lord dwelt in the Asse and one of thy people said which thou say'st is no Baptist that Balaam had no more spirit then his Horse he was one of thy followers and took thy part and thou didst not gain-say him then and now thou say'st in effect the same that he did And that the spirit of God dwelt no more in Balaam then the Angel did in the Asse then let all people read Numb 22. Numb 23. Numb 24. did Balaam's Asse praise the Tents of Jacob and bless Israel and prophesie to many people and will God bring Balaam's Asse to Judgment as he doth Balaam for Balaam erred from the Spirit but thou cannot say his Asse did so and loved the wages of unrighteousness and hast not thou been there to run greedily after the error of Balaam for gifts and rewards does not thou remember a difference bewixt 40 l. and 100 l. for preaching about Manchester and who should have had this John and God testified against the error of Balaam but not against the Asse as in Jude and here it s proved Balaam had more spirit then his Horse as you called him which overthrowes the assertion of thee and thy fellowes And whereas thou makes a great transgression because we said he was a Baptist if thou be a Baptist he maintained thy Principle and was one with thee and why dost thou deny him now And whereas thou sayest there is a Light or Law in every man which convinceth and reproves of sin and this made Judas bring the money back again and this thou sayest doth not reprove of unbeliefs Judas was made a partaker of the Ministry and had he no more then a natural man is this according to thy knowledge of the Scripture did this which convinced Judas not reprove him of his unbelief did it not make him confess he had sinned in betraying the Innocent blood did he not see his unbelief and wickedness here Mat. 27. and to prove thy assertion thou brings Rom. 2. 14 15. which sayes the Gentiles that have not the Law do the things contained in the Law shews the work of the Law written in their hearts their consciences bearing witness c. and if thou read the 16. vers thou may see that this witness speaks in the day that God shall judge the Secrets of Men by Jesus Christ hereby it plainly appears that in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ this spirit which lead the Gentiles to do those things contained in the Law will justifie them and this uncircumcision the Apostle saith shall be counted Circumcision as vers 26. and doth not this Light which judges the secrets of all hearts by Jesus convince of unbelief so here thou hast belyed the Apostle and whereas thou sayest this was before that promise in the 16. of John we know that and whereas thou sayest that this spirit of truth was to convince the World of Sin as in the 16. of John and unbelief here thou hast overthrown that which thou asserted in the publick meeting for therein thou asserted that none had the spirit but Believers and this Scripture was to convince thee for that which convinced the Gentiles was within by which they knew God and was not that by the Spirit else how came they to be baptized in the spirit and circumcision in the spirit and thus one while thou confesses and another while denies and so is in confusion and goes about to bring one Scripture to overthrow another to thy own destruction for when the Holy Ghost was come when the Apostle preached to the Romans and the Gentiles which he spoke of and preached to was become the true Circumcision in the spirit and the Holy Ghost was come then which was promised And in all thy Answers it doth not disprove the Scripture which saith the World hath the Holy Ghost to reprove them but Christs words which is our assertion stands and thou and thy assertion by thy former arguments is shaken and so it is proved that the wicked and unregenerate hath the Holy Ghost which thou confesses is the spirit of Christ though they grieve it and all the Scriptures thou brought proves nothing to the contrary but overthrowes thy assertion and John 14. 17. is answered before for the World and thou art unlike to receive the spirit of truth when you reject and oppose the Light and will not receive it which you should believe in for if you receiv'd it it would not reprove you but you would have fellowship in it why dost thou judge the World hath it not when thou confesseth thou hath it and is in the same nature of the world in envy malice and revenge and Rom. 8. 9. proves nothing to thy assertion but saith the Saints was not in the flesh and they that quench and grieve the spirit of God and will not have the spirit of God but it reproves them for their sin c. how can they be said to be Christs when they will not have the spirit of Christ to lead them and Jude 19. is clear against thy assertion which speaks of such as had the spirit and erred from it and so became like Sodons and Cain and Core and Balaam these thou brings to prove that wicked men has not the spirit of God over and over Balaam had the spirit
of God that is proved in Numbers and in Genesis it is proved that Cain talked with God and heard his voice and he could not do that without the spirit and Core knew the power of God that brought him forth of Egipt and was not he of the tribe of Levie that ministred in the Priests office and was he like to medle in the things of God without the spirit though these err'd from the spirit as in Jude and so became sensual And thou had more liberty to hold forth thy errors then others had to hold forth Truth and as the Serpent led Adam and Evah from Righteousness and Holiness to the Tree by which they fell so thou his Messenger leads people from the spirit of God within them to something without them Whereas thou say'st in thy second Argument whom Christ lighteth with a saving Light into their hearts he causeth the Glorious light of the Gospel to shine 2 Cor. 4. 4 6. but he causeth not the Glorious light of the Gospel to shine into the hearts of every one that comes into the World for the Gospel is hid to some to whom the God of this world hath blinded the mind of them that believe not c. Ans This doth not follow nor prove that all are not enlightened with a saving light because the God of this World hath blinded the minds of them that doth not believe nor it does not overthrow the promise of God who said he would give Him for a Light to the Gentiles to enlighten them who was the Glory of Israel Luke 2. 32. and he should be Gods Salvation to the ends of the Earth Isa 42. 49. 6. and Isa 52. 10. where the Lord said Is it a light thing that he should be his servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and restore the preserved of Israel but saith the Lord I will give thee for a Light to the Gentiles that thou may'st be my Salvation to the ends of the Earth and when Christ came he said I am the Light of the World and he that followes me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of Life Joh. 8. 12. John which came to bear witness of the true Light saith That that was the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the World and he sayes that all men through him might believe and Christ saith in the 12. of John Believe in the Light and he that believed is saved so this proves that the Light is saving and though some be darkness and the God of the World hath blinded their eyes because they do not believe yet this Light shines in darkness and the darkness comprehends it not Joh. 1. 5. so this clearly overthrowes thee and thy assertion to be in the darkness and not to comprehend the Light which shines in thy darkness for he that believes in the light is saved by it and he that does not is condemned and Christ who is the Light is the Saviour so this proves that the World is lightened with a saving Light though they neglect their Salvation and God is just in judging of them and the Saints that believe iâ— the Light and becomes Children of the Light it shines in their hearts and gives them the knowledge of the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ 2 Cor. 4. but them that hate the light John 3. comes to be darkened and does not know the Father and the Son as the Saints do for they become haters of their Salvation and as thou and the Pharisees hating the true Light and seting up your own wisdom instead of the Light then if the Light which be in you is darkness how great is that darkness when you stop your eares from the true Light of Christ in your selves and set up your own way and denies Christ Jesus the Light to be the way and Ephes 4. 18. nor Math. 6. neither of these places sayes that the Light in them was darkness but saith Ye were sometimes darkness but now are you light in the Lord c. and Christ saith If the eye be single the body is full of light but if it was double or evil it was full of darkness and to the double or evil eye he questions if that light that is in them be darkness how great was that darkness and this shewes there was two eyes and the double went from the single eye which would fill the body full of light but the double fills it full of darkness and then calls darkness light and denies the Light of Christ as thou dost Isai 5. 20. so all the Scripture thou brings and perverts is to no purpose for they do not disprove the light to be saving And whereas thou sayes again Such as are lightened with a saving light are new Creatures and are Regenerated and such as the light is such is the life and it is implanted in them and they have eternal Life but Christ doth not quicken Regenerate make new Creatures and give life to every man that comes into the world but some are in the flesh born and are created in sin have not life yea die in their sin Ans Here thou goes about to lay the fault upon Christ that men are not regenerate and hath not life c. when the Scripture plainly tells thee that it is because they do not believe and they that do believe are regenerated born again and have Eternal Life and do know the effects of the Light and such as the light is such is their Life but they that doth not believe in the light does not become Children of the Light but remaines in the flesh and the birth of it in an unregenerated state without life hating the Light so hating the life not because they have not a saving light but Christ saith Believe in the light while you have it shewing they have it before they are children Joh. 12. Heb. 3. and they that dyed in their sins poor man were in thy condition they did not believe that Christ the light was he to believe in and all the Scripture thou brings is nothing to oppose the light of Christ to unbelievers which was spoken to the Saints which thou perverts for we know what was spoken to Believers and what to unbelievers and Joh 8. 24. where it 's said if they did not believe that he was the Christ they should die in their sins and the Apostle said all was gone astray both Jewes and Gentiles that God might have mercy upon all Rom. 11. 32. and so this mercy of God to the World thou denies and God respects no man's person as in the Acts c. And whereas thou brings many Scriptures to prove that the Saints by the Light had faith had gift to trust in him had power to become Sons of God and had Christ dwelling in them by his Spirit and by Faith c. Ans All these is nothing to the matter in hand for the Dispute was not about the
thee that thou hates the light and when thou said the Plagues of God was upon Thomas Curwen this is not rayling with thee and said the spirit of the Devil spoke in him when he spoke truth to thee and this was thy fury and madness who art not fit to talk of the Saints conditions and so it is manifest thou knows not what spirit thou art of who dost not know the light of Christ to be saving neither hast thou shewed forth the fruits of the spirit of Christ with its workings And whereas thou would know where any of the Ministers of Christ or Christ called any strange birth of the flesh c. it seems thou art ignorant of the Scriptures as well as others as long as thou hast been a Merchant for did not Christ tell the Pharisees they were of their Father the Devil Iohn 8. and the Apostle said to Elimas the Sorcerer thou full of all subtilty who perverts the right way of God as thou dost hindering people from believing in the light Ioh. 12. Acts 13. and so we speak truth to thee as thou art we do not falsly accuse thee and now see thee where thou art who long deceived us but praised be the Lord we are come to Christ the saving Light which thou denyes and its manifest what thou art and what thy suffering is in the darkness against the light and thou proves thy self a Thief and a Robber who enters not in by the door Christ the Light but climbes up another way and therefore the sheep knows thy voice to be the stranger Iohn 10. and we know what thy compassion is but thou wants power thou hast manifested in this Book and the Letters thou hast sent up and down to Manchester and Stopperd and thy deeds are manifest in the light which thou hates so much and the Lord is rebuking the evil spirit and judging it and thou wilt feel the weight of his hand for thy maliciousness to his people and it is thou that hath mislead and misguided the simple who brings forth arguments to no purpose to strike at the Corner-stone Christ the Light it being fallen upon thee therefore thy Arguments is manifest to be to no purpose and therefore thou art thus tormented and whereas thou savest our Corner-stone being struck at then the building must needs fall to the ground but I say our foundation is Christ the Light Ioh. 8. which we know that thou and all the Generation of Priests have struck at till you are all tumbled down your selves but Christ our Corner stone and Foundation and Light never fell but thine is fallen and therefore thou ragest And we do affirm in our words and printed Books that Christ who says he is the Light in Joh. 8 he is the Dore Joh. 10. he is the quickning Spirit and he is the Corner stone which God hath laid in Sion he is the Truth and he is the All and in all and above all according to Scripture and to be believed in And hath enlightned every man that comes into the world and he is the Redeemer and the word and this thou denyest Christ the Light the Quickning Spirit the Way the Truth the Corner stone the Word the Foundation the Redeemer and the All And here indeed thou hast denyed the Corner stone and Christ Jesus which the Prophets Christ and the Apostles testified of so thou hast manifested thy self against them So never take their words to make a Trade of any more And thou canst not call Christ the Light a Quickning Spirit the Way the Truth the Word the Foundation the Corner stone the Redeemer this thou canst not call the True Jesus thou sayst We do believe thee and that thou art an Enemy to him and them that walk in his light are manifest and therefore have I Richard Gubbam proved thee a false Prophet and Antichrist according to thy own-words and we are come to Repentance and the knowledg of the Truth and thy ways be detected whereby many simple hearts be turned from them and so now we are many of us undeceived from such deceivers as thee who calls Christ the Light the Word the Way the Truth deceiving but the Lord rebuke thee who strives to keep Ignorant simple people from the Light and in darkness thou wouldst aspire up as a Judge of all conditions and knows not thy own to be miserable blind and naked Rev. 1. yet thou tell'st the Reader what the Light is and what it can do and what it cannot do and of what use it is when thou in the darkness cannot comprehend it And whereas thou tellest us of the Light of the first Adam and the Spirit of man is the Candle of the Lord Proverbs 20. and Genesis 2. Adam was made a living soul 1. Cor. 15. and thou sayest this Candle of the Lord or Light in every man is inferior to other Lights and is lower than the Angels and is limited and bounded c. And now would not this Light have justified the Jews and Adam and the Candle of the Lord would not that have directed them in his way and did not David call the word of God A Lanthorn to his feet and a Light unto his path And is this thy Spirit which is under the Bonds and Limits for where the Spirit of God is joyned to there is liberty and we do not tell thee of the Light of Adam thou art gone from the matter but we speak of the Light of Christ Jesus the second Adam the Lord from Heaven For our dispute was not about the earthly Adam the Spirit of a man but our discourse was about Christ the Light of the world the Saviour and thou tel'st us of the Light of Adam this is thy dark Wisdom and like thy knowledge and experience of Christ And whereas thou say'st the Spirit of a man or Light in every man is understood to be the Reason or the understanding of a man whereby he is adopted to know his Creator viz. who made him according to David Psalms 59. 6. Answ Here thou hast confuted thy self for can man be adopted to know his Creator with his own Spirit and Reason and his own Light which thou call'st Natural For the Natural man knows not the things of God and the Spirit of man knows the things that be of a man even so the Spirit of God knows the things that be of God and if all Nations must know the Lord God that made them and serve him and they are his people and the sheep of his Pasture and they must worship and kneel before the Lord their maker and keep his Laws then they should have the Spirit of God for natural men cannot discern the things of God nor hear his voyee nor worship him as thou said'st before so these Scriptures over throws thy assertion Psal 95. 6. And whereas thou say'st of this Light we may understand Christ to speak Mat. 6. 23. Therefore if the Light in thee be Darkness how
Cor. 12. and this thou brought before and is this created light the Law of works do this and live and is this created light the spirit of man that leads him to horror and amazement Nay it is a divine Light that lets a man see himself and all those Scriptures doth not speak of a created light or a Candle light which is the spirit of a Natural man leading him to know something of his Creator and of his duty to him when the Scripture saith the Natural man knowes not the things of Gods how ignorant and carnal art thou was the Law of works the created Light springing up with the Natural man for that was the Law of God which is spiritual which saith do this and live as in the Romans And how was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world if Adam had no more but a natural light springing up with man and is the Image of God Righteousness and Holiness which he was made in a Created light and the Candle and Spirit of the Natural man as thou saist formerly in this thou manifests both thy ignorance and contradictions For that of God in all men by which they knew their Creator and the things of him it is by his spirit by which thou hast said they may know their Creator by a Created Light and by a Candle which is the Spirit of a Natural man And thus thou hast overthrown thy own Assertion and opposes the Covenant of Light Christ Jesus and art contrary to the Scriptures Cor. 2. 11. and what is this to the purpose as all being concluded under sin we know that and we know that the Law is spiritual and what it can do but we own Christ the end of the Law for it served till Christ the seed came who gives Life And whereas thou saist the Light which thou called natural and making no distinction in this place betwixt that which is natural and that which is spiritual but saith the Light flowes from the principles of Nature rightly called natural and not spiritual and this thou would set up in opposition against Christ the Light for the Apostle spoke to the Romans how they were from the Light and from the Law and while men be in that which flowes from the Natural Man they know not neither the Law that is Spiritual nor the Light of Christ and Men obeying the Light of Christ or the Law of God it is not by that which flowes from nature but from that which gives them a spiritual understanding for the natural man doth not know the things of God and all those Scriptures in the Romans Galatians and Corinthians is nothing to the matter of thy purpose concerning the Light of Christ that doth enlighten every man And whereas thou sayest This Light knowes nothing of the pretious Gospel ministry hid in God nothing of Redemption by Christ nothing of Gods good pleasure and purpose of Grace nothing of the Law of faith the tenour whereof is this c. This all may see how thou hast contradicted thy self by thy former words for thou sayes that this Light is able to seek or feel after God his Creator and is in a capacity of knowing much of Him as a Creator at least his Eternal power and Godhead and can this Light let them know the Eternal Power and Godhead and nothing of Christ who is the power of God and nothing of the Gospel which is the power of God and can a man know something of the Creator and nothing of his Favour for is not his grace his favour and they that lived in the Law was justified and they that were obedient saw Christ the end of the Law and came to him who is the end of the Law and beyond the Natural man's spirit which thou talks of so fast to no purpose but manifests thy confusion For to know God is Eternal Life Joh. 17. 3. and that is beyond thy Natural Man's Light and we do know that they that believe in Christ Jesus the Light which thou opposest shall have Eternal Life and we know that the Law of Faith is not natural nor the Light of Christ that doth enlighten every man nor the Law of God nor the promise of God with all the rights held in the Faith and the seed Christ shall bruse the Serpents head and he is come a Light and Salvation to the ends of the Earth that enlightens every man and we know the Law of Faith is Spiritual and whereas thou say'st the Law of Works springs up with Man's Nature and the Law is Spiritual and then this Natural springs up with the Spiritural Why how now John where finds thou this in the Scripture the Law is receiv'd from God and not springing up with man what non-sence and confusion is this what a Mechanick man art thou And thou saist the Law of Faith was added because of Transgression and out of mere grace was founded on Christ in the gracious promise Gen. 3. c. Answ We say neither the Law of Faith nor the Law of God sprung out of mans nature And the Law which was added because of transgression was not called the Law of Faith so thou errs and art as wide in this as thou art about the Light of Christ I believe thy brother Price would not say that the Law which was added because of Transgression was the Law of Faith and so thou art the vain man that would be wise as thou say'st which is born like a wild Asses Colt Job 11. and Gods thoughts are not as thine but are as far different as the Heaven is from the Earth And whereas thou say'st Man is not able by all his Candle-light to know Christ and yet thou said before he could know the Eternal power and Godhead by this Candle light and now thou sayes the Natural man cannot deserâ—e the things of God because they are spiritually discerned and before thou said he might know much of his Creator and of the Eternal power How now John dost thou not think the least babe seeth thee here thou needs not an Aoster to discern thee And whereas thou say'st that this Light is not able to discover or convince man of unbelief in Christ and yet thou sayes this light will shew the Eternal Power and Godhead which fulness of the Godhead dwels in Christ and we know that the spirit of truth doth convince the World which thou opposeth the Comforter and he is come and why dost thou tell us of a natural Light or Created Light or Mans Spirit which it manifests thou knowes no more but Heathen like or Athist like for it is the Light of Christ Jesus the new Covenant which farre exceeds thy natural Lights and created Lights and Man's Spirit and thy meanings and Acts 13. 47. I have set thee to be a Light to the Gentiles that thou should be my salvation to the ends of the Earth And this overthrowes thy Principles for he the Light is the salvation to
not fit to take them into thy mouth for thou hast made a trade of them too long and the Light Christ Jesus who ends the Law And where doth the Scripture speak of a Natural light and a Created Light from the word Creator springing up with people in their Creation for a Natural light makes him but a Natural man still by which he cannot know much of his Creator who is Spiritual as thou saist nor seek and feel after God nor know his Eternal power and Godhead For the natural man perceives not the things of God but they are foolishness to him for they are spiritually discerned but it is Christ the true light which Iohn came to bear witness of which thou calls natural which men are to believe in so thou leads people from the true light Christ Jesus and so to hate Christ And so thy self and them both into Condemnation Ioh. 3. And the light will be thy condemnation fight against it as long as thou wilt for it is the Saints Armor For Put on the Armor of light saith the Apostle to the Saints And whereas thou writes to thy people to keep them from the Light Christ Jesus which light thou art afraid of coming to but many is come to it And further thou tells thy people of trembling nay they are far off that thou and thy people are rather in scorn against the Light of Christ and calls it natural And whereas thou saist How destructive and pernitious will the light of Christ which we speak of and Iohn bore testimonie of prove to pretious souls And thou saist Admit this grand lye for the Corner stone and the whole superstructure will consist of lyes Answ This is thy Envy against Christ the Light and foundation which destroys the Lyer and Lyes for there is no lie of the Truth And thy foundation consists of nothing but lyes against the truth for thou and thy Generation of Priests has long prophesied falsly against Christ our Rock and Foundation and that we should fall untill you be all tumbled down your selves And many of your Merchants are turned Bankrupts Oh that thou wert but in Authority thou wouldst shew other weapons against them that walks in the light of Christ But God has broken thy horn and Truth remains the same as ever and shines over all your heads Glory to the Lord God for ever And thou saist Open this as the first door of entrance as they do and it leads into a Babell of Confusion and Errors no sooner is a man entred in at this deadly Gate but he is in the City Tohn where first if his eyes be anointed with Eye-salve by the true Iesus he may behold this Image of Iealousie viz. the light that is in every man that comes into the world Answ Thou calls the Light of Christ which Iohn came to bear witness and testimony of an Image of Jealousie that leads into the City Tohu and into a Babell of Confusion c. What doth Iohn come to bear testimony of such a light as this is that people was to believe in as he saith Doth the Scripture speak any such words in John 1. 9. What railing expressions is here against the true Christ Jesus who enlightens the Gentiles and the Glory of Israel This is just the Jews who said He had a Devil Might not Margaret Fell justly call thee a Blasphemer And what dost thou talk of the true Jesus and Eye salve when thou deniest him the true light who is the door Ioh. 10. But you are all seen who deny the light to be gone into Tohu and confusion and the least in the light of Jesus sees your Images of Jealousies fall down one after another And you are also faln with them in darkness who denies the light with the earthly wisdom And whereas thou saist Set up and worshiped in prayers and praises all the Honour and Attributes due to the true Redeemer alone being ascribed to it which is an Idolatry so much worse than that of Ieroboams and the Papists by how much it is the more Mysterious and in shew the more spiritual and so less diseernable whence it comes to pass that multitudes are insnar'd by it according to that in 2 Pet. 2. 2 Many shall follow their pernicious ways The falling down to this Image is that whereby every particular Person is matriculated or Registred into their Society of Friends for now and not before as they say he hath received the truth and notwithstanding many defects is accepted as a friend Ans Here thou hast manifested thy lyes Envie and Malice not only against us but against Christ the light and the Prophets and Apostles testimonie for it is God we worship in the Spirit and in the Truth And God is well pleased with us in him Christ And they that followed Christ the light was his Friends And so we which believe in the light and walk in the light are children of the light And because many is come to walk in the light and have fellowship in it this makes thee to rage against us and our fellowship in the light and in it one with another And what are the defects thou slanders our Friends withall for we can call all people Friends but they that be in the truth are friends in the truth Christ who is the Redeemer And thus to pray to Christ thou saist is an Idolatry and worse than that of Ieroboams and of the Pepists Mind the spight and envy and malice of this man and what mischief he utters forth against the Light of Jesus and them that pray in the light in the spirit to Christ God as the Saints did and this is become an Idolatry with I. VV. worse then that of Ieroboams the Papists he saith this leads people into pernitious ways but that is false and an error for Christ the Light leads none into pernitious wayes but thou art deep in them who causeth the way of Truth to be evil spoken of and speaks evil of the right way and makes lyes thy Refuge and art compassed with a Cloud of Error fighting against the Lord and the Lamb but he will have the victory for we matter not what thou can speak against us but when thou speaks against the Lord we are bold and valient to declare against such who art promoting thy permitious wayes against Christ the Light the way who is a mystery to thee and whom thou saist is a pernitious way because many goes in at it was there ever such error uttered but it will fall upon thy self and this makes thee to rage because Babylon is fallen and she is loosing some of her Children And because we praise God in the Truth and will not follow the Priests but followes Christ the Light and honours the Lamb this thou calls an Idol and worse then that of Jeroboams c. And as for Papists dost thou not know that two Baptist Preachers in Essex are turned Papists who were Railing
speaking as in Tim. c. How ignorantly dost thou apply the scripture and wickedly but this Manifests thy Judgment of them but thou art more ignorant than some of the Baptists for some of the Baptists would allow women to speak but thy envy hath eaten out thy sight and the least of our Disciples sees thee to make lyes thy refuge and who lives in the truth sees thee And whereas thou saist We say the Scriptures are not a rule of Faith and Conversation to walk by hence it is that Christs Water Baptism and Supper and his Censures are rejected Ans If the Scripture be thy rule for thy life and Conversation then why dost not thou obey it For if the Scripture be thy rule then thou must burn offerings and sacrifices and if but part of it be thy Rule why didst not thou set down what part it is But we say Christ is our rule which doth also the Scriptures Math. 2. 6. Where it is said he shall rule the people and he is the author and finisher of our Faith And give us that Scripture that saith the Scripture is the Author of mans Faith and mans rule And as for thy Bread and wine and outward washings thou knowst little more than that nor hardly that for if thou didst thou would'st have answered my queries but thou darest not confess to the power the Apostle was in And we look at things that be Eternal 2. Cor. 4. And not at the things which are seen And such as are risen with Christ seek those things that be above Col. 3. And as for the outward things we know them where they be and do not deny nothing in its place but our life is in Christ but thou shelters thy self in outward things to keep alive in thy old nature out of the Baptism into the Death of Christ Rom 6. 3. And as for thy Censures you have censured one another till you are broken to pieces And where doth the Scripture speak of Christs Censures And Christ being within he is the Rule and Ruler and King this is Scripture within the Saints 1 Col. 27. Christ in you 2 Cor. 4. Canst thou not see this Scripture within but thou hast made a trade of them so long that thy gain hath blinded thee and was not all the Scriptures given forth from the Spirit of God within by inspiration of the Spirit 2 Tim. 3. and is not the new Covenant the Law written in the heart the Scripture within Heb. 8. Jer. 31 30. and this Scripture within thou makes a mock and scoff at And the same Gospel as ever was the power of God we own and are not ashamed of Rom. 1. 16. VVhich Gospel of Christ is the power of God to Salvation And Christ saith the spirit of truth should lead them into all truth And was not that their Rule and if the Scripture be the Rule what was the guide into the Rule to know the things of God for thou sayest the Natural man know not the things of God for they are spiritually discerned then the Spirit must be the Rule and they that are the sons of God are led by the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2. and Joh. 14. And is not the Law written in the heart the perfect Law of liberty the Law of Love the Law of faith in the heart dost not thou see this is a Scripture Jam. 5. 25. Heb. 8. Rom. 3. 17. And is not this faith within to be obeyed Rom. 10. dost thou not here manifest thy darkness to all people and is not this faith held in a pure Conscience which the just lives by 1 Tim. 1. 19. Thou mightst be asham'd to scoff at the practice of the Saints and at the Scriptures but in thy dead faith thou calls Light darkness and darkness light as in Isay Who makes such an outrage against the Light because we say the light is in the heart and the Spirit of God to guide us is within according to Scripture which speaks of the Rule of Faith Let Christ Rule in your hearts by faith Thou hast put him out of his place preferred the Scripture before him And what Rule had Abraham and the Saints in the old world before the Scripture was written And whereas thou speaks falsly accusing and speaking untruths and persecuting with the tongue and Acts of injustice and thou sayes this we do in obedience to God and to our Guide Ans Thus thou further vents thy lies and malice for the Lord God who is pure and Christ our Light leads us to no such thing but we speaking truth to thee and tells thee what thou art without flattery therefore makes thou thy complaint of persecution with the Tongue but thou hast the persecuting tongue and when thou proves thy other slanders against us then may thou have a further Answer for we own no injustice And whereas thou saist we say the Light in every man is the object of faith and a common sufficient Light that it is Salvation to all that obey it and that we teach free Will c. Ans Here again thou adds lye to lye perverting our words as thou dost the Scriptures and speaking thy own for we say Christ is the Light of the World and his Grace is sufficient for all and hath appeared to all men Tit. 2. and believe in the Light saith Christ Joh. 1. 8 12. and Christ the Light is the Author of faith and we say it is not he that wills or runs but that God shews mercy which none is to abuse And whereas thou saist We teach and set up an inherent legal Righteousness denying the imputed Righteousness of Christ wrought in his own person without us that Christ fulfilling the Law in us or his spirit mortifying or sanctifying and fulfilling the Law in us is Justification therefore no coming of Christ but that within and so deny the 2d coming of Christ contrary to Scripture these many more Arminian Popish long since profligated errors is laid upon their sandy foundation Ans Here thou adds more lies for Christs second coming we do not deny and he the Righteousness of God we own and never denyed and it is a false slander of thee to say otherwise and our foundation is Christ which thou wickedly calls Sandy Isai 28. who is a tryed stone 2 Tim. 2. and the legal Righteousness is thy own it s none of ours 1 Cor. 1. and the Righteousness of Faith which saith the word is nigh thee in thy heart and in thy mouth we own which thou enviously calls an inherent legal Righteousness Romans 10. And that which Christ wrought and did in is own person and suffered without the Gates of Jerusalem for Mankind we own and never denyed which thou maliciously slanders us with the contrary and he is revealed within us and that makes thee to rage and all our Books which thou speaks of are according to the Scripturea of Truth and to Christs and the Apostles Doctrine but thy
principles are according to the old errors thou speaks of But thou saist thou hast done with our Principles thou needs not enlarge upon our Hay Wood and Stubble being assured the removing of our Foundation which thou saist thou hast done will bring down our whole building Ans We are Gods building 1 Cor. 3. And we have a building of God Ephes 2 and Christ is our Foundation which remains and stands sure 2 Tim. And we are built upon the Foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Christ himself being the head Corner stone the Lord hath laid our foundation and no other foundation can any man lay 1 Cor. 3. 11 12. Zach. 8. 12. Eph. 2. 2. Tim. 2. And as for hay wood and stuble it is thy own and will be burnt up who has denyed Christ the Light the foundation and called him a natural and created Light and Idol but thy foundation and building is down together it 's hard to know where it stood And where are all your Builders and Daubers and now after all thy slanders and raylings thou wouldst make people believe thou lovest our persons And when thou hast uttered all thy lyes and malice thou in hypocrisie and feigned humility would make people believe thou pittiest us But we know what thy pitty is But we are come to the true Jesus who takes pity of our souls though thou long deceived many of us I believe that few people would hardly have believed that there had been so much poison venom in thee thou hast denyed Christ the Light the way truth life calls him natural and created and so art in the error thou speaks of and thy bowels is the belly of Hell Jonah 2. And what hast thou to do to take the Lords name in thy mouth and hates to be reformed But thou art one of them that uses thy Tongue saying Thus saith the Lord when he never spoke to thee Jeremiah 23 Thou saist Thou hast born thy Testimony against us in that which appears in us against the mystery of Christ crucified Ans Christ Jesus which was crucified which thou slanderously saist we deny but him we own it is thou that denies him to be crucified in denying his Light for we preach Christ crucified 1 Cor 1. 23 2. Cor. 2. And him that the Jews crucified who were in the same envious Spirit with thee against the light Jo. 1. Mat. 20. 19. and Mark 15. 13. Luk. 23. 23. Rev. 11. 8. we are crucified with Christ Gall. 2. 20. And if thou hadst written fewer errors it had been better for thee but praised be the Lord God thy deeds are brought to light and this is a poor shift for thee to come off so after thou hast laid down thy assertions and cannot maintain them nor canst not make them good for our questions was learned questions and tended not to strife and yet stands on thy head unanswered and thou and all which thou hast declared hath been against God and Christ so that thou art one that bears false witness against him not for him And thou hast manifested the error of thy judgment for thy understanding is error Psal 19. Mat. 22. 22. 1 Tim. 6. 10. and that which thou hast done hath been against Christ the Foundation of the Prophets and Apostles and thy Commendation of us is reviling and slandering for it is manifest thou hast a double tongue unbridled Jam. 1. Tim. 3. 8. and with thy tongue thou thinks to prevail Psal 12. but a lying tongue Prov. 12. 19. is but for a moment and he that uses slanders is a fool Prov. 10. 18. but we cannot walk with slanderers Jer. 6. 20. And thou saist Our principle hath had its growth and advantage from these means from the pride covetousness formality idleness and cruelty corrupt oustomes Idolatry superstition of Parish Priests and the generality of their Hearers Ans And John Wiggan Trencher Chaplain shall be put in amongst them And thus when you were in your wickedness as thou speaks of before and mocked God with your Religion as the end of it hath manifested it self God hath overturned it and stained your glory and your pride which went before your destruction Prov. 16. 18. then the Lord had compassion upon us in your day when no eye pittied us and revealed his Son in us who is our Shepherd and leader and Salvation Ezekiel And thou with the rest Railed against us in your idleness and pride and carnality and who was mader against Truth then your separated Congregations in railing against the Light and Spiritual Teaching and who were taught of God and Christ and followed him and would not follow your pernitious wayes and when we prophesied to you of your down-fall both in your Towns and Cities and Army you abused us prisoned us and persecuted us though all the things is come to pass upon you which we then spoke and yet thou in thy envy and malice art railing against the Truth the Light Christ that it should spread but thou had rather the evils before mentioned should spread Idleness and Pride c. And our Testimony was born against your pride and hypocrisie in the truth and spirit and power of Jesus against all your false Worships and Churches and Teachers which God hath thrown down according to our Testimony and you were found treacherous to your own Principles in all things for we faithfully bearing our Testimony for the Lord God to you as he gave to us and for standing faithful to him we were prisoned and had our Goods spoyled by you and now you are murmurers against us because truth stands and your foundation is fallen to the ground and thou wickedly termes the true Christ who is Light to be Antichrist And whereas thou saist Antichrist doth never oppose Christ more then when he appears in a mystery when he comes in the name of Christ and pretends to be all for Christ reproving much that is evil and pleading for many commendable things thus our Saviour tells us many false Christs shall arise Mathew 24. 24. in Sheeps cloathing Mathew 7. 15. in so much that if it were possible they should deceive the very Elect. Ans This is directly thy own condition who appears in a mystery to oppose Christ the Light but we cannot say of many commendable things thou hast done or sins reproved and neither Mat. 24. nor Mat. 7. saith that Antichrist shall do many commendable things or reprove sins for that which reproves sin is the spirit which Antichrist is gone from Christ said Antichrist and false Prophets should come to the Disciples and John saw they were come 1 John 2. and they went forth from them into the World and as in the Revelations the whole World went after them and they inwardly ravened from the Spirit and so keeps people from the Spirit and Light within them as thou dost and these have the Scriptures the Sheeps Cloathing and if it were possible would deceive the very Elect but
denyed which is the Light of Christ Jesus and if thou would cast off thy evil cast off thy lying slanders reproaches mockings scoffings and if ever thou wilt learn or imbrace good thou must imbrace the Light of Christ Jesus which hitherto thou hast reproached and wilt thou learn of us which thou callest Antichrist thou manifests thy self this is but one of thy flattering scorns And whereas thou saist Through the Riches of Grace having cast out those Beams which dims the eyes of many I can better discern the meates that lyes deep in the bottom of their eye Answ Thou denying the Light of Christ Jesus and not owning the grace which brings salvation which hath appeared to all men as in Titus Thou art far off the Riches of the Grace who calls Christ the Light an Idol and instead of casting out Beams and Moats thou art fighting against Christ the Light Truth and Covenant and Salvation to the ends of the Earth And whereas thou saist Being of equal ground with them can tell them that all their sair pretences and high expressions are found to be a covering too short to hide their nakedness and deceit Ans It is Truth we hold forth and fair pretences is thy own condition in words but out of life and so thy nakedness is seen to all that fear God and thy deceitful covering which is now taken off and thou art manifest and thou art not upon equal ground with us who denies Christ to be the Light And whereas thou saist While they call others Deceivers they themselves are the more subtle Deceivers Ans In this thou hast declared thy own condition for we are saved by Christ and hold him forth and declare what we have heard and seen Iohn 1. 3. and declares aginst all such Deceivers as thou art who is an Enemy to Man's Salvation Christ Jesus the Light John 8. And whereas thou saist While they call others Babylons Merchants and charge them for selling Christs the Prophets and Apostles words they themselves do the some and that none sells more Babylonish then they nor at higher rates then they as might be instanced in several Persons that I forbear to mention Ans We are come cut of Babylon where thou art and all your confusions and have recived the Lord Jesus Christ whom we declare freely as we have received without money or price and we do abhor thy lyes and slanders as to declare Babylons Merchants and such as makes a Trade upon Christs the Prophets Apostles words then to do the same things our selves which no honest man can charge us justly with such things but such as thee who sells thy self to work wickedness and the Lord will rebuke thy spirit for charging that upon his innocent Lambs which they are not guilty of and we do charge thee to mention those particulars and their Names that hath sold such ware at so great a rate and what was the rate and who and what are their Names that bought it And whereas thou saist while thou endeavours to discover their deceits thou intends not to hurt any thing that 's good in them Ans It is the good in us that thou strikes at and in that thou hast discovered thy own deceit as may be seen all along in thy Book together with thy contradictions And thou saist Hosea 14. 9. who so is wise and he shall understand these things prudent and he shall know them for the wayes of the Lord are right and the just shall walk in them But John wiggan hath fully discovered his foolishness and that he walks not in the way of the Lord which is Light for Christ saith I am the Light I am the Way the Truth and the Life and this Light he hath denyed A POSTSCRIPT How hath thou lived in sloath and idleness that thou hast not convinced those that turned from thee which was thy Heareis all these many Years that thou begins but now alack for thee they are on a Foundation above thee and so thy Sandy Foundation and darkness and enmity and making gaine of the Apostles and Christs Words has been thy own condition and keeping People alwayes in Teaching that they may alwayes be Paying thee And now that thy Goin as gone thou grumbles and mutters against those that be innocent and judgeth them in the practice of thy self and so measureth them with by own Earthly Spirit and judgeth them with Earthly judgment which cometh not near them Something in ANSVVER To JOHN WIGANS APPENDIX Wherein he Compares the Evil Language of the Quakers with the False Prophets Answ TO tell a man he is a Lyar if he find him so is not a Mark of a false Prophet for Jeremiah did so Jer. 23. And the Apostle was no false Prophet when he told them they spake lyes in hypocrisie 1 Tim. 4. And Jeremiah was no false Prophet when he said They bent their tongues like a how to speak lyes Jer. 9. Nor David was no false Prophet when he said They turned aside after lyes Psal 40. And the Apostle was no false Prophet when he said Satan had filled their hearts Act. 5. as he hath done thine else would thou not have uttered so many lyes against us but we are not afraid of thy Reproaches Psal 51. 2. neither do we matter thy mocks for fools make a mock at sin Prov. 14. 16. And knowing that mockers was to come in the last times Jade 18. Though we have undergone the trial of cruel mockings but God will not be mocked with thy Religion and vain words Gal. 6. for what thou sowest thou must reap and our words that are spoken to you are truth who makes no distinction when the truth speaks to the wickedness and unrighteous state of man which the wicked may get the words as thou dost and throw upon the righteous And whereas thou compares us to the false Prophets and the unclean spirits in the Revelations which came cut of the mouth of the Dragon and were proud boasters false accusers and incontinent fierce despisers of those that are good Answ John this is thy own condition thou hast directly read it yet before thou said thou would learn of us and thou said they were the better meaning people that came to us thus thou foamest out thy own shame like unto the raging waves of the Sea And whereas thou saist We boast of persection and sinless life and are the servants of corruption Answ This is false the Lord rebuke thy spirit for our perfection is in Christ the crown of our rejoycing who thou saist is an Idol and Christ we serve and not corruption And see if any of our Friends have spoken such words to thee as thou hast spoken against the truth and thou denying the spirit and Light in men by which they should see their salvation thou can be no otherwise but as a wave of the Sea as a Well without water and a Cloud without rain as in Jude manifest to be in the
him is no darknesse at all 3ly Thou saist I said Thou hast manifested thy self to be out of the first step that leads to Christianity and art a Priest of Darknesse These words are true upon thee for the Light Christ Jesus the VVord which thou hath denyed is the entrance into life and Christ is the VVay the Light and the Truth and the Dore which thou hast denyed and so by Christs own words thou art a Thief that enters not in at the Dore the Light but climb'st up another way Jo. 10. And so thy Prayers and all thy fleshly performances must need be abhominable who art without the Dore Christ the Light amongst the Theeves and Robbers and of thy commiting Sacriledge that is proved before sufficiently and also thy blaspheming against the holy Spirit of God There needs no more to be said to that it is sufficiently proved before And in my second Letter thou saith 1. I said thou begins with a lye and ends with the Devil and sets J. W. next to him Thy own Letter which thou sent to me which I sent thee back again will testifie that to be true as it is there written And is thou offended that I should mention thy own words to thee art thou ashamed of them now and art thou offended at me because I writ of that which thou had writ with thy own Pen thou art so muddeld that thy own actions torments thee 2ly Thou saist I spoke of thy black defiled heart and conscience Answ They are so and blackness and darkness thou art filled with who doth deny and gain-say the Light of Christ in thy own conscience and that is the cause thou art such an inveterate enemy against Christ the Light in every man but his witness in thy own conscience will be a Worm that will gnaw thee and Fire that will never be quenched one day though thou make slight of it now but did not thou say in a Letter to me thou had received my blacke Lines not that I writ these words to thee rendering railing for railing but my words are true upon thee in thy present condition 3ly Thou saist I said thou was a Child of darkness what hast thou to do to take the name of God and Christ in thy mouth thou enemy of God Answ My words are these Thou enemy of God that knowes him not whom none knowes but the Father and none knowes the Father but the Son and whom the Son reveales him to and thou that hath not a Revelation of him art a Thief that takes his name in thy mouth but the cause of my writing these words was that thou had writ in thy Letter to me That I ought not to judge before Christ Iesus be revealed 4ly Thou saith I said Thou art no Believer in Christ thou art yet in thy sins c. Answ But my words are these thou said thou was in the light of Christ that enlighteneth all Believers and my Answer to those words was Thou art no Believer of Christ that abides not in his Doctrine for they that believes abides not in darknesse where thou art but is past from death to life which thou art an enemy to and therefore do not deceive thy self for thy hope will perish and thy faith is vain thou art yet in thy sins and art thou offended because I said thou art yet in thy sins and is it not thy Doctrine that none can be free from sin while they are upon the Earth and art thou not a sinner that 's proved a blasphemer against God 5ly Thou said I said Thou was a man separated from God Answ By his Light which thou art an enemy to 6ly Thou sayes I said Thou never knewest nothing of the worship of God Answ My words were these God is not worshiped but in his spirit which reveales him and so thou that has not the Revelation thou never knew the worship of God 7ly Thou sayest I said Thou envious poysenous heart Answ But my words are these And for thy uncivil termes that thou has invented out of thy envious poysenous heart as calling me the VVhore of Babilon and a Woman drunk and Iessabel with many other such like termes as these and so now the Reader may see thy deceitfull and theevish dealing though thou would hide and cover thy self this manifests thee to be a Child of darkness indeed Thou art ashamed of thy own words and conceales them for these forementioned termes Thou writ to me in thy Letter when thou was drunk with fury and takes mine in peeces and perverts them and belyes them if thou had had any dram of honesty thou might have set some of thy own foule words down which thou writ to me or at least have set mine down in order as they were writ to thee but to wrest and pervert and lye for thy own ends and advantage has been the Trade thou has followed all thy life time with the Scriptures 8ly Thou saist I said Thou art under the Chain of it it is over thee a fighter against God and his Truth and the Reward thou will be sure to have and never look that that which is cursed will be blest But thou hast left these words out and thou hast preached another Gospel then the Apostles did this thou hast left out Thou art accursed and no other portion can thou have and this is Scripture and Truth to thee In my third Letter thou saist I said Thou can do something in writing a Book of thy own Dreames and thy Imaginations and brain studies and telling of lyes which thou hatcheth out of darkness but thou art a meer sot and Ignoramus thy evil and unclean heart thy malitious darke envious spirit thy weakness inability and ignorance in the things of God But my third Letter began thus J. W. Thou has now made a poor end of thy boasting words and thy Assertion thou hath very meanly proved Thus far and thy way of Answering thus far for what is written to thee manifests thy weakness and ignorance and darkness sufficiently thou can do something in writing a Book of thy own Dreames and thy Imaginations and brain studies and telling of lyes and stories which thou hath hatched out of darkness when there is none to contradict thee but to Answer any thing which is plain Truth and Scripture thy spirit and doctrine and practice is so contrary to the truth and the spirit of God that gave forth the Scriptures in this thou art a meer sot and Ignoramus and so framed thy Answers of lyes scandals and reproaches and foule language which comes out of thy evil unclean heart for if any man should but read my two Papers which I have written to thee and thy Answer of them they may thereby read thy malitious darke envious speeches and also thy weakness inability and ignorance of the things of God And again thou saith I having told her that if she called the Light that is in every man that comes into the
Henry Wood and William Holden not before the people to make good thy Assertion that thou boasts so much on which thou hath no cause to boast on but to be ashamed of for this is manifest of thee already in that thou hath not Answered Old H. W. Queries yet nor cannot do and what dost thou talk of G. F. meeting thee there are thousands in England that would turn and overturn thee and thy Assertions and thou art grieved that old H. W. and W. H a Blacksmith should engage with thee to Answer thy Challenge for I believe they are of ability for did not old Hen. W. stop thy mouth before the people that thou could not answer him and now thou goes and calls for G. F. to shuffle it of thee thou sure thinks that would be an honour to thee and by that thou thinks thou could shuffle of answering H. W. and W. H. of making good thy Assertion it 's an easie matter to overthrow thee and thy Assertion any babe in the truth may soon manifest thee that never was in the truth and so never mention G. F. coming to thee before thou has done with others that thou art engaged with for there is a cloud of witnesses against thee all the Saints in the Scripture bears testimony against thee and all that knows truth or ever will know it doth and will witness against thee and all of thy spirit and principle and before thou make any more boasting see if thou can clear thy self of what is here charged against thee and proved upon thee and by the Scripture of truth that is to say 1 of being a Blasphemer against the Holy Ghost 2 of being a minister of darkness 3 of being an Idolater 4 of being an Antichrist See if thou canst cast this of thee before thou talk and boast that thou chiefly desires to deal with G. F. and such others as say they are Apostles that their Doctrine and deeds being brought to the light it may be truly known whether they be true Apostles indeed or false Answ Poor conditioned man what wilt thou try with with thy dim dark Natural created light thou art tryed and proved already and weighed and found too light and so thy trying is little worth the false Apostles know more of the truth then ever thou did and yet thou art so impudent that thou talks of trying true Apostles but this is like thy former folly but all has been to manifest and bring to light thy rotten hypocrisie with which thou has deceived people but thou will proceed no further thy folly is so manifest and thy filth is so uncovered that now people will see thee and thy deceitful wickedness that with thy lying tongue can speak of Regeneration and new birth and of trying true Apostles and false with many other words which thou has stoln out of the Scriptures or else thou could not have spoken them who denies the first Principle of truth Christ Jesus the Light of the Truth and the life and the way to God and therefore he stands upon thy head thy condemner for ever for I have heard many Ministers and Teachers and seen their Works but I never saw nor heard such a humble jumble confused piece as this of thine of dividing God and Christ and such distinctions of the Light and Word but proves nothing of what thou intends but leaves it confused like thy self and sits as Judge upon the Son and sits as Judge upon the Saints and sits as Judge upon the World c. And now J. W. since thou has taken upon thee withal thy might and main to push with thy horn against the Lamb and his Followers and has engaged open war with him and has boasted as though thou would remove him out of his place and that in a publick testimony let us now prove and try thy foundation and let us see how thou will demonstrate thy strength and manifest thy ability to performe this that thou has undertaken that is to say to wit to remove our Foundation or we thine which may be manifested to the Reader by thy Answering these following Queries 1st Query Whether the Light that is in thee be not darkness but thy asserting to wit that the Light in every man is not a saving Light as also considering what is here proved before for the confuting of thy Assertions 2dly Whether thy eye be not evil and so thy whole body full of darkness since that Christ hath said that the Light of the body is the eye and by thy Assertion thou hast denyed that eye and put it out 3dly Whether dost thou believe that thou thy self has the Light of Christ in thee since thou has asserted that he has not inlightned every man yea or nay 4ly If thou have the Light of Christ in thee how comes thou by it or where had thou it more then other men and if thou was one of the World and now is not how came thy change and when and where didst thou receive that which makes thee to differ from other men 5ly Thou has taken upon thee to teach people how was thou called to it or by whom was thou made a Minister didst thou ever hear the voice of God hast thou the Revelation of Jesus as the Apostles had 6ly Dost thou turn people from the Darkness to the Light and from the power of Satan to the power of God art thou no Minister of the Letter but only of the Spirit as the Apostles were 7ly Where is thy Flock that thou has gathered from the power of Darkness unto the marvelous Light as the Saints in the Scriptures were is thy Flock in unity and fellowship with all the Saints in Light how is it then that thou denyes Christ Jesus the Corner Stone and Rock on which all the Church of God is built 8ly And how came thou and thy Flock to be Saints since yee deny Christ Jesus the Foundation which is the Stone is laid in Sion and how came you to differ from the rest of people since God is no respecter of Persons and what has made the difference betwixt thee thy Flock and the rest of all other people of the World shew it and manifest it forth wherein yee differ and how yee came by that which makes yee to differ 9ly Thou saith in thy Book thou would have us to return to the true Christ and thou lookes upon our Christ to be an Idol and has left us without direction to the true Christ thou speaks on so my Query is where this Christ is thou calls the true Christ and what he is since thou has denyed him to be the Light 2ly Thou has denyed him to be the New Covenant and Law written in the heart 3ly Thou has denyed him to be the Word in the Beginning 4ly Thou has made a separation betwixt him and his Father so what is this true Christ of thine being thou saith who worships all these before mentioned worships an Idol being thou
lead them this way Ans Those three or four sheets was most of them particular Letters sent to thee by many persons so as I said before thou shouldst have published the whole Letters not part of them and let them have spoken themselves to the Reader and thy errors are sufficiently manifest in thy Book and thou would have a sheet of Paper written to thy Book five sheets in a few dayes time which concerns several friends 60. miles distance one from another this was Wiggan's policy and his peoples to get the Book again and to boast that it could not be answered And thy next words concerning Antichrists fair speeches and allurements while there is hope to make merchandize of them is directly thy own condition for now thou being stirred up and opposed rages who did appear to ignorant people like a Lamb but thou was known to us before for now thou art loud and clamorous and falsly accusing when thou canst not get thy will about like to the Whore in Proverbs 7. and Josephs Mistress Genesis 39. and 2 Pet. 3. And whereas thou speaks of owning Preachers not sent but denyes the Lord that bought them and preaches not the same Jesus and Gospel as Paul did such thou saist thou ownes not but denies Ans Then thou denies thy self and thy own Assertion for the Apostle preached that Jesus which said he was the Light of the World Joh. 1. and Joh. 8. so thou art the man that Christ never sent Rom. 10. 15. and Jer. 23. 32. and thou art proved the Antichrist that denies the Lord that bought thee 2 Pet. 2. and Jude 4. and so art one of them that crept in unawares who preaches another Jesus another Gospel then Christ the Light And whereas thou saist we boast of gifts c. and that it s reported to thee that G. Fox had the gift of Tongues and by such like pretences we gain a multitude and it is a certain Character of Antichrists last coming that many shall follow their pernitious wayes Ans Our boast is not in gifts nor tongues as knowing they begin at Babel but our rejoycing is in the word Christ Jesus and in his Light Truth and Spirit and we would have all men and women come to the same in themselves which thou denies by which they might know the Lord by which a multitude is come to follow the Lord and to walk in his way the Light which thou enviously calls a pernitious way and a mark of Antichrists coming and thou Antichrist like would draw people from the Light and spirit of God within them to thy own way but God hath overthrown and is overthrowing thy pernitious wayes and many who have been followers of thee now comes to follow the Lord and that makes thee thus to rage Mathew 24. 5. 1 Pet. 2. 2. and our way is Christ and he is our guift of God And after this thou sends 12. Queries abroad and thou thy self couldst not answer my Queries nor Wood's is this the part of a man of Wisdom or Reason Nevertheless I shall not let thy Queries pass unanswered though these Queries are not to us chiefly Thy Queries are as followeth 1 Query Whether it can be found in all the Scriptures that any of the true Prophets or Christ or his Apostles ever used such language as is before mentioned in any person professing Repentance towards God and Faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ or whether it be not clearly the spirit of an Antichristian spirit as hath been hinted Ans Thou that has denyed Christ Jesus to be the Light of the World and calls him an Idol and hath denyed Christ the Light to be saving contrary to the Scriptures Luke 2. 38. thou hast denyed Repentance and Faith in Christ for thou hast denyed that which thou should believe in and therefore thy words bears the mark of Antichrist 1 Joh. 2. 18 22. Joh. 4. 3. Joh. 2. 7. And what we speak of thee is true upon thee and the Apostle used such language to such like as Acts 13. 10. where the Apostle called Elimas an enemy of all Righteousness a child of the Devil which perverted the Deputy from the right way of God as thou dost people And read Timothy and Titus and there see what words the Apostle gives to evil beasts and slow bellies Titus 2. 1. 2. Query Whether there can be any other gain in the aforesaid censures then to cast an odioum upon and to cause a disesteem of the persons opposing them and whether this was not the practice of the false Prophets and false Apostles thereby to gain more credit to their own cause Ans This is thy own condition for what gain is it by all thy former slanderous words which thou cast both upon Christ and us that Christ should not be believed in and that we should be of disesteem among people that holds truth forth to all people that they might believe in him who enlightens them and this was the work of the false Prophets and false Apostles to disesteem of Christ and the Apostles that people should not believe in him nor receive their Doctrine as Mat. 28. 12 13. and 2 Cor. 10. and did they not say Christ deceived the people read Mathew and did they not say Jeremy deceived the people but the false Prophets and false Apostles could get the true Christs Prophets and Apostles words but was out of the life and not being in the spirit the true Apostles alwayes judged them as thou art now 1 Peter 2. and Jude 3. Query Whether it be not a manifest abuse of the Scriptures and a presumptuous introduction into the office of Christ positively to affirme that the sins of any man shall never be forgiven in this World nor in that which is to come meerly because he denyed the Light that is in every man that comes into the World to be saving in as much as the Scripture no where saith thus that the Light is saving Ans Thou doth not only deny Christ the Light to be saving but thou denyest the Holy Ghost to reprove the World c. And Christ saith all sin may be forgiven but that which is against the Holy Ghost and thou dost also blaspheme and sin against him not as he is a man but as he is the Light and spirit Mat. 12. 36. and whereas thou saith the Scripture no where saith that the Light is saving the Scripture saith Christ is the Light and he is the Salvation John 8. and the Lord shall be to thee an Everlasting Light and the Lord is the Saviour of his people And Joh. 12. I am come a Light into the World saith Christ and he is a Saviour And Psal 27. 1. and David saith the Lord is my Light and Salvation And here thou lyes against that which the Holy Ghost hath said in saying the Scripture saith no where the Light is saving and in Isai 49. 6. where the Lord speaking of Christ saith I will give thee for a
Light to the Gentiles that thou mayest be my Salvation to the ends of the Earth and God is Light and he is a Saviour and here thou may see how thou denies the Scriptures 4. Query Whether this people do not censure all Men and Women in the World as well as the Author of these Papers to be out of the first step that leads to Christianity to be Infidels and to be accursed if they deny the Light that is in every man that comes into the World to be saving and whether is not this as much as to say that they only and none besides themselves are Christians and whether is not this a great appearance of pride in them thus highly to esteem themselves above all others Ans There is few people of the World will deny that the Light of Christ which enlightens every one that comes into the World is saving but thou and such Priests as thou art who contends against the truth and it is not pride to confess Christ the Light to be saving and deny them that denies it and say they are out of the first step for Christ being the Light Life Way and Salvation thou and those that denies him to be saving are out of the first step to God for Christ is the way to him 5. Query And whether are not all those censures directly contrary to the Saints and such as make them lyable to greater Judgments Mat. 7. 1 2. Jam. 3. 1 2. Answ That which hath been spoken to thee hath been truth and Mat. 7. speaks to thy own condition who judges unrighteously of Christ and us and thou art in that condition where many masters is Jam. 3. 12. from the one Master Christ Mat. 23. 6. Query Whether do not these clamorous and evil speakings for which there is no Scriptural warant manifestly flow from bitterness anger wrath and malice as the Apostle intimates Eph. 4. 31. Ans We do not know of any that hath spoken more clamorous and evil speeches against Christ and his people then thou hast from thy Earthly sensual devillish wisdom below Jam. 3. 16. Eph. 4. 31. in the malice wrath envy clamor and evil speaking that thou art in against Christ the saving Light c. 7. Query Whether any wise experienced Christian can judge of this people to be in a perfect sinless state who appears with these open sinful railings cursings judging in their mouthes nay since this they boast and glory in this their shame whether is it not evident that they are the servants of corruption Ans Railings Curfings Boastings and Glorying and such like we deny but we speak the truth to thee as in Rev. 22. as the plagues added to them who adds to the Scriptures and our rejoycing is in the Truth and the Apostles did not Raile when they told such false Teachers as thee 〈◊〉 what was their properties and its manifest by thy Railings against us that thou seems corruption 8. Query Whether this hath not been their manner all along to strive to overcome with these carnal weapons threatnings censurings cursings revilings c. and since no Scriptural weapon is yet imployed in the management of their cause supported thereby Ans Our Weapons are Spiritual and by Scripture weapons we have overthrown thy Assertion as may be seen in the Book and the rest of thy fellow Priests And censuring and revilings c. hath not been our Weapons to overcome with but Truth hath been our weapon by which we answer that of God in every one but railing revilings and persecutions hath been your weapons against us the Nation knows it when you were not able to resist the Light of Chrisi Jesus and the Spirit by which we spoke And here thou belyes us in saying we use no Scripture weapons but it hath been by the Scripture and the Spirit of God all along we proved you to be deceivers our Writings and Bookes will witness against thee 9. Query Whether it be not abominable wickedness to father all their evil speeches upon the Holy Ghost and to say where they curse raile revile speak falsly and frothily that it is by his inspiration and command Ans This is thy own condition when Christ and the Apostles spoke to the Pharisees they did not flatttr them nor smooth them up as the false Prophets did Ezek. 13. 14. and the Holy Ghost leads us to speak truth to every man according to their conditions without flattery read how many woes Christ pronounced against thy generation in Mathew 23. so in this thou hast wronged us and belyed us as thou hast done before 10. Query Whether can any man rationally conclude that these people bear any true love to that person whom they judge to be the enemy of God and accursed and whose sins shall never be forgiven in this world nor in the world to come or rather when they profess love and say they desire his welfare is there not just ground to believe they speak lyes in hypocrisie as its said Apostates should do in the latter times 1 Tim. 13. Ans Our love is to all Mankind and we would not have had thee to have run into such sins against the Holy Ghost telling thee plainly what would come and relating to thee the portion due to thy condition as in Rev. 22. And herein stands our love as from the Lord who rains upon the just and unjust and causes his Sun to shine on both and herein we do shew the Mark of our Father and that we are the Children of our Father which is in Heaven and so our love is not partial like thine which thou enviously and maliciously termes to lyes in hypocrisie which was spoken for loves sake to thee But bray a fool in a Morter and he will not forsake his folly as Solemon saith and 1 Tim. And an enemy to God thou hast proved thy self and for that cause we cannot flatter thee Acts 13. 2 Thes 2. 3. Phillipian 3. 18. Psalm 7. 5. Psalm 80. 6. 11. Query Do they not plainly discover a persecuting spirit in the aforementioned reviling and may not any man in reason conclude that whom they judge an enemy of God and accursed they would use as such if that they had power Ans Cain is afraid where there is no fear and thou being in his spirit manifests the same for when did any of us lay such violent hands upon thee as thou didst upon Thomas Curwen and John Abraham when they came to discourse with thee of the things of God so that hath been spoken to thee in love and kindness as was told thee before that thou might have turned from thy wickedness that was the cause why thou thus accuses us and as for the persecuting spirit and reviling that is thy own 12. Query And last I leave it to be considered by such as will take the pains to read the account which I have given of the Light within whether they do not speak all this evil of me meerly because
I have told them the truth and not for any other cause c. Ans That which thou hast spoken hath been against the truth and is lyes and the Reader may see thou calls Christ an Idol a natural Light a created Light and spirit of a Natural man contrary to the Scripture and so thou being against Christ the Scriptures and Gods people therefore have we writ to thee and spoken to thee being according to thy own Challenge in love and in a Scripture way and it is for Christs sake thou hates us And whereas thou speaks of another sheet that thou will present to discover the mystery of iniquity Bring out all the strength thou hast for it will further discover thy own iniquity and thou shalt not find Christ Natural or Created nor an Idol but in his strength we shall answer thee And whereas thou saist to the inquirer and weak Take heed of the Religion that begins with a lye for it is certain a great judgment of God to be given up to believe lyes 2 Thes 2. 10. and that the first step to this peoples Religion is an abominable lye and that every one is taught and required at his enterance into this Religion to believe this lye I have shewed in my former Paper Ans It is thy own Religion which is begun with a lye therefore all people are to take heed of it who denies Christ the Light Joh. 1. 8 12. and art given up to believe lyes and utter the same 2 Thes 2. And whereas thou maliciously saith To turn people from the darkness to the Light of Christ being our first step is a lye Ans In this thou hast proved thy self a false Minister and contrary to the Scripture and the Apostles Ministry which was the same which is the first step in this thou hast manifest thy envy as all yong people may see who enquireth after the Lord Acts 2. and the abominable lye is thy own and little else but lyes in thy Book and so thou may expect the judgment of the Lord to be thy portion And whereas thou bids them take heed of that spirit that denyes Christ come in the Flesh least they be partaker of his evil deeds by biding him God speed Answ This is thy own condition thou art the Man who denyes him to be come to enlighten all Men and denyes his Light to be convincing and so has denyed John's testimony a Man sent from God John 1. And so none that feares God can bid thee God speed in thy evil work therefore thou art offended and we shall not be partakers with thee of thy evil deeds for no other Christ do we own but he who dyed at Jerusalem above sixteen hundred years since who sits at the right hand of God and is revealed in us according to his promise who saith I will come and dwell in you as in Joh. and the Cor. 1. Cor. 3. 16. Act. 3. 20. and Collo 1. 26. 27 28. and all who are called Christians confess Christ to be come but deny the end of his coming to destroy the Devil and his works 1 Ioh. 3. 68. and to take away sin but they must have sin while they be upon the Earth this is your general Doctrine and denyes Christ to be come a Light into the World according to both the Prophets and Apostles And whereas thou saist Take heed of that people who have no better weapons then censures cursings judging threatnings Answ Our weapons are spiritual and we have related over to thee thy due according to the Scripture as the Scriptures threatens thee and pronounces these Plagues to be due to thee who addes to it and we teach that people might follow Christ Jesus the Light of the World and not follow thee who saist he is a natural Light and an Idol and a created Light and James 3. 9. is thy condition and so thou art the Man that deceives people with vain words Ephe. 5. 6. and with fair speeches the hearts of the simple Rom. 16. 18. And as for giving satisfaction thou art not likely who denyes the Light Christ Jesus and any who reads thy confused Book may see there is no satisfaction given in it though thou hast perverted many Scriptures and as for thy further debate upon thy assertion we tould thee we were ready and tell thee so now again who hast challenged us twice in this thy Book to meet us before the Sheriff which thou might have spared this Challenge in thy Appendix for we had given thee an Answer before we would meet thee to wit Thomas Curwen Husbandman William Houlding Blacksmith William Wilson Taylor and Henry VVood a dayly Labourer Seeing thou art the Man who hath challenged us we shall in the strength of the Lord meet thee when thou wilt and appoint a time and place for we were the Men whom thou hadst first to deale withall in this place and what dost thou scoffingly put Shoo-maker in which was not in which is a word of thy own forging as though thou was not able to Answer us or durst not stand to thy own assertions but shuffles from them And one would have thought John Henry VVood had given thee disputing enough before when thou was so gravel'd and stopt thou fled away from the Table and now it seemes thou hast put it of till the Magistrates call us out as though they had nothing to do but to medle with thy Antichristian wayes Nevertheless it stands on thy head and do not say we provoked thee for it was thy own Challenge for thou hast taken that in hand thou canst not make good by the Scriptures without adding or diminishing we know that before hand And whereas thou saist He that saith and affirmeth the Light in every man to be Christ is a deceiver and an Antichrist Ans The Light that lighteth every man that comes into the World he that affirmed this was no Antichrist Joh. 1. who said As many as receives him he gives them them power to become the Sons of God and here thou hast shewed forth thy malice against Christ and against the Apostle who bore witness of him and in plain words calls him an Autichrist and against us who are in the same Doctrine and teach the same thing and thou hast proved thy self to be an Antichrist 2 Joh. 9. for Christ is the Light and Salvation to the ends of the Earth who doth enlighten euery man that comes into the world Joh. 1. Joh. 8. Luke 2. 32. And thou saist what feeble shifts are those my Assertion striks at their very foundation and before they make that good they would run into other matters they seem to be weary of their cause but I must hold them to it till their Corner-stone and mine be so thorowly tryed that it may evidently appear whither of us be of the true Rock Christ Jesus Ans Thy Rock which thou so calls is tryed and found to be no Rock but confusion who denies Christ Jesus
William Houlding Blacksmith and Henry Wood a daily Labouring man who cannot read on a Book and Thomas Curwen Husbandman and William Wilson Taylor who in the strength of the Lord desire to give the said John VViggan a meeting before the Sheriffe as he hath challenged us and hath sent his Challenge into the Town and not to us with many villifying and slanderous words in the said Book which he hath sent amongst the people so let all the wise in heart judge of this man whether he hath carried himself like a Rational man yea or no. The Assertions are as followeth 1. For John VViggan to prove and make good out of the Scriptures of truth 1. that Christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the World with a saving Light contrary to John 1. 9. 2. That the Light wherewith every man is enlightened that comes into the World is not a saving Light 3. To make good that which thou hast laid down that there is some men that comes into the World hath not the spirit contrary to Iohn 16. 8. Acts 2. 7. 4. That Christs blood was not shed for all men contrary to the 1 Epistle of Iohn 2. 2. 5. That Balaam had no more of the spirit of God then his Horse and which was held forth in the dispute against us contrary to Numbers 24. 17. 6. That Balaam did not see the Starr of Iacob contrary to Numbers 24. 17. 7. And that wicked men hath not the spirit of God nor the Holy Ghost contrary to Gal. 2. Neh. 9. 8. That the Light before faith is not pure contrary to Rom. 7. 12. 9. And that Christ the Light that lightens every one that comes into the World is an Idol contrary to Ioh. 1. 9. 22. 13 46. 10. That the Grace of God is an Idol contrary to Ephesians 2. 5 8. 11. And that there is no mercy with God contrary to Psalm 13. 6. 12. That Christ is not the Word contrary to Revel 19. 13. 13. That the Light is a false Christ contrary to Ioh 12. 33 46. 14. And that Light doth not shine in darkness contrary to Iohn 1. 5. 15. And that God who is the Word doth enlighten every man that comes into the World is not saving 16. And that the Light Christ that enlightens every man that comes into the World is a Natural Light 17. That some are in the flesh and hath not the Spirit This is he to make good and prove how they can quench it and grieve it that hath it not 18. That some that comes into the World have not a saving Light 19. Some there are that are in the flesh and never had the spirit contrary to Rom. 10. 20. That the time must come that men must break their Plow-shares into Swords and Speares which his brother Price justifies in a Book and John Wiggan was offended because we marked it out for error and these things we would have the said John Wiggan to stand to and make good before the Sheriffe as he challenged by plain Scriptures of truth in the New Testament For both the Scriptures and Common-Prayer testifies against thy Principles Some more of John Wiggan's Assertions which are not many of them in the former above written 1. THat the Light in every man that comes into the World is not the Door nor the Mediator Saviour nor Redeemer nor the Way Truth the Life the Lord that bought them nor the Corner-stone nor the infallible spirit 2. That it is not the true Jesus but an Idol the Light wherewith every man is enlightened or the Light that lighteth every man 3. To follow Christ the Light is to follow a pernitious way 4. That the Light was natural and spirit of a natural man and was that in Adam which let him see his sin 5. That Light which is darkness spoken of in Math. 6. 22 23. le ts man see his Creator 6. And this Light looketh upon every thing done or to be done of man and yet this Light maketh not any thing that is done to be good or evil and yet this Light sheweth the Creator and this Light in man will render God Righteous in his Proceedings against man 7. That Christ doth not give his spirit to every man that comes into the World 8. That they in Iude spoken of as Cain and Cora and Balaam had not the spirit 9. And this Light with which every man is enlightened is Natural and its gross to say that the Light which enlightens every man is Christ 10. That the Light in every man is but the spirit of a man the Law written in the heart 11. That who so worships that Light that enlightens every man that comes into the World as Redeemer worships an imaginary and fictious Christ and an Idol denying the person of the true Jesus 12. That whosoever saith that he that is the Light in every man is Christ is a deceiver and an Antichrist and Iohn Wiggan will prove them so 13. And it is the subtle deceiver and adversary Satan that saith the Light which doth enlighten every man that comes into the World is the Lamb and the Lord and the object of faith 14. And the Light that doth enlighten every man is the Word and before he said it was the Natural man's spirit and an Idol c. 15. That the Light the word God which enlightens every man is natural and man by it knows nothing of Christ though he confess by it he knows the Eternal power and God-head the fulness whereof dwells in Christ bodily 16. And the word God the true Light which doth enlighten every man that comes into the World he saith is darkness Mat. 6. 22 23. 17. And the word God doth enlighten every man that comes into the World by setting up a Light and spirit in man which is called the Candle of the Lord and writing a Law in his heart and the Light which doth enlighten every man is not the word which was in the beginning 18. And Christ came a Light into the World not to enlighten every man that comes into the world and this light is able to seek and feel after God his Creator and by it man may know his Creator and the Eternal power and Godhead it is a created Light a great Light it is but a Candle Light but it discovers man's transgressions and this Light springeth up with mans spirit and this Light is the Spirit of a Natural man which doth not know the things of God and this Light discovered Adam's sin and this Light is Natural and not Spiritual 19. But this Light knows nothing of the Gospel mystery hid in God nor Redemption by Christ nor of Gods good purpose and Grace nor of the Law of faith 20. This Candle-light to wit that Light wherewith every man that comes into the World is enlightened is not able to discern the mystery of God in Christ And so make good these things by Scripture or stop thy mouth for ever
the things of God l. 28. f. ligh read light p. 66. l. 36. f ligh r. light p. 73. l. 36. f. is r. his p. 78 l. 4 f. game r. gaime l. 15. where ever is twice blot out the one p. 87. l. 9. f. overshipping r. overskippng p. 88 l 31. f. Luke the tenth r. Luke the first p. 103. l. 10. f. sad r. said p. 105 l. 23. f. without r. with our p. 130 l 34. blot out deserves line 36 for seems read serves THE END Some Scriptures which overturns Wiggan's Assertions GOD so loved the World that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting Life I have no pleasure in the death of him that sinneth I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked If any of you lack wisedome let him ask of God who giveth to all Men liberally and upbraideth no Man God hath made of one blood all Nations of Men perverse disputings of Men of corrupt mindes Evil Men shall wax worse and worse 2 Tim. 3. 13. Christ is a Light to lighten the Gentiles Luke 2. 32. Salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles The grace of God which brings salvation hath appeared to all Men. Titus 2. 11. They turned the Grace of God into Lasciviousness The Worlds were made by the Word of God By the Word of God the Heavens were of old As many that corrupted the Word of God In Christ dwells all the fulness of the God-head bodily The true Light which doth enlighten every Man that comes into the World I am the Light of the World saith Christ so Christ is that Light which shines in darkness and the darkness comprehends it not God commanded Light to shine out of darkness and shined in our hearts to give us the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ I am the Light of the World saith Christ they that fellowes me shall not abide in darkness but shall have the Light of Life believe in the Light while yee have the Light that yee may be the Children of the Light Such as Rebels against the Light Men love darkness rather then Light Every one that doth evil hates the Light neither doth he bring his deeds to the Light lest his deeds should be reproved And every one that doth truth brings his deeds to the Light that he may see whether his deeds be wrought in God but Jo. Wig. saith the Light is not salvation contrary to David Psal 27. The Lord is my Light and my Salvation who then shall I fear Jo. Wiggan saith the Light doth not reprove the sin of unbelief contrary to Paul to the Ephesians who saith whatsoever is reproved is manifest in the Light and so this is plain that unbelief is manifest by the Light But there is a spirit in Man and the Inspiration of the Almighty giveth understanding The dust turn to the Earth the spirit to the Lord that gave it They also that have erred in spirit shall come to understanding they that murmured shall learn Doctrine Thus saith the Lord he that created the Heavens and stretched them out he that spreadeth forth the Earth and that which cometh out of it he that giveth breath unto the people and spirit to them that walk therein Gods saving health among all Nations let all people praise the Lord let all people praise the Lord let all Nations praise the Lood and sing but Jo. VVig speaks contrary to David how can Gods saving health be among all Nations when they have not the Saving-Light Look unto me all the ends of the Earth and be saved for I am God and there is none else but Jo. Wiggan saith they have nothing but a created Light that is darkness Mat. 6. 22. Oh Jerusalem wash thy heart from wickedness that thou maist be saved how long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee All flesh shall know that I am thy salvation but how can all flesh know his salvation when they have not the spirit as J. Wig. affirmeth This is good and acceptable in the fight of God our Saviour who will have all Men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth but Jo. Wiggan saith God denyes faith to some Men and so gives God the lye and saith Christ doth not enlighten every Man that comes into the World with a saving Light And with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness in them that perish because they receive not the truth in the love of it that they might be saved But how can they obey the spirit and truth when they have it not may Jo. Wiggan say I will that Men pray every where lifting up holy hands But were thy hands holy J. VV. when thou laidst such violent hands upon me Tho. Curwen and thy spirit of God Turn yee at my reproof and I will pour out my spirit unto you I will put my spirit within you I will put my spirit within you and will make you a new heart and a new spirit Such as vexes the spirit The flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh But Jo. VVig maniests that he knows nothing of this warfare who saith some hath not the spirit to war with he that soweth to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption but he that soweth to the spirit shall of the spirit reap life everlasting Jo. VVig that would not have the spirit in every Man its plain he soweth to the flesh not to the spirit for he saith it is not within them Quench not the Spirit They erred in Spirit They have erred from the faith And Balaam erred from the spirit Shall receive a Recompence of their error Rom. 1. The spirit of the Lord came upon Balaam The Spirit of the Lord came upon Saul 1 Sam. 10. The Spirit of the Lord came upon the Messengers of Saul And so this overthrowes VViggan's Assertion who saith wicked Men have not the spirit All the while my breath is in me and the spirit of God is in my Nostrils Christ is the Saviour of the World and giveth unto the World My flesh I will give for the life of the VVorld Joh. 6. 15. Go yee into all the VVorld and preach the Gospell Mark 16. They that believe shall be saved but they that believe not shall be damned I am the Light of the VVorld I am not come to judge the VVorld but to save the VVorld Ioh. 12. That the VVorld may believe that thou hast sent me God was in Christ reconciling the World unto himself 2 Cor. This is condemnation that Light is come into the World and Men loved darkness rather then Light because their deeds are evil I am come a Light into the World Joh. 9. Done despite against the Spirit of Grace Hebr. 10. But they rebel'd and vext his holy Spirit therefore the