Joh. 4. 24 God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth and such the Father seeks to worship him Jesus Christ came forth from the Father for that end that he might gain a spiritual people to worship but your great work is to get in a natural people a carnal people the fleshly seed so contradicting the end of God in giving Christ upholding the Covenant made with Abraham and Moses so denying Christ to be come in the flesh I will not say at present for your own ends and interests The force of your first Argument being thus untwisted and its weakness and invalidity laid open I need not trace you in your Parallels what I have already written puts an end to your Parallels as far as you imagine they tend to uphold the strength of your Arguments I shall present another Parallel from what I have declared leaving it to the judgment of the judicious Reader to consider 1. The Covenant made with Abraham was an outward covenant and promise of the Land of Canaan Gen. 17. 10 11 12. 1. Ours is a spiritual Covenant and promise of in Jesus Christ the true spiritual Land of rest Heb. 4. 4. to 8. 2. That was made with Abraham and his natural seed Gen. 17. 7 8. 2. Ours is a Covenant made with Christ and all his spiritual seed Isa 59. 21. Gal. 3 29. 3. Circumcision was the seal of that Covenant Rom. 4. 11. 3. But the Spirit of grace is the seal of our covenant Eph. 1 â—3 4 30. 4. That was a Covenant that many most of those in it missed of eternal life Rom. 2. 27. 4 Ours is a covenant sure stedfast eternal everlasting to those once truly in it Isa 55 3. Jer. 31. 31 32. Joh 10. 28 29. 5. That was a Covenant that might be broken and had an end as all types end when the substance comes 5. Ours is a Covenant that cannot be broken nor shall ever have an end being the substance it self of the type Now to your second Argument from Circumcision The second Argument p. 13. Such as were circumcised under the Law may be baptized under the Gospel But the Jews with their Infants were circumcised under the Law Ergo Christians and their Infants may be baptized under the Gospel You confess that your Major is questioned as well it may be so I could give you several Arguments which you would not like as well grounded as this of yours but I forbear For proof of your Major 1. You say They are under the same Covenant That is denied and rased in my Answer to your former argument It is neither the same Covenant nor the same seal an outward seal to an outward Covenant an inward seal to an inward Covenant 2. You say There is the same reason for the one as for the other our children are born in original sin as well as theirs have the same need of the seal Oh unimaginable blindness was Circumcision or Baptism either ever given to seal up the pardon of original sin If it was then it must be pardoned or not pardoned if pardoned then sure else it is but the putting a seal to a blank But the truth is they were never given either of them upon that account or for that end to seal up the pardon of original sin And whereas you say there is the same reason for the one as for the other it is denied for the command of God is the reason of the one and of the other God commanded Infants to be circumcised he hath commanded Believers to be baptized and 't is reason that he should be obeyed as in the first so in the second it 's an unreasonable and wicked thing to contradict by contrary actions the commands of Christ 3. You say If Baptism succeed in the place of Circumcision then Baptism belongs to those to whom Circumcision did belong But Baptism doth succeed in the place of Circumcision Ergo c. I answer your Minor is denied 1. There is no Scripture that saith that Baptism was ordained in the place of Circumcision it 's your own invention never mentioned by the Apostles of Christ The Scriptures you mention Act. 2. 38 39. Col. 2. 11 12. have not the least hint in them to the thing in hand and are abundantly abused and wrested to that for which they were never intended as will appear 2. You confess that Baptism was in force before Circumcision was abolished Circumcision and Baptism stood both in force by a Law for some years at least 3 or 4 years Now if Baptism had come in the room of Circumcision then Circumcision must have ceased when Baptism came But Circumcision did not cease when Baptism came Therefore Baptism came not in the room of it If it be objected that Paul circumcised Timothy after the ascension of Christ I answer that was because of the Jewes for their weakness but it was in being by the Law of God untill the death of Christ So then I reason thus That which put an end to Circumcision came in the room of Circumcision but Christ put an end to Circumcision therefore he is come in the room of Circumcision That it was Christ and not Baptism that put an end to Circumcision is cleer Rom. 10. 4. Gal. 5. 2 3. So that Baptism did not put an end to Circumcision but Christ did therefore Baptism came not in the room of Circumcision 3. It could not come in the room of Circumcision to them that never had Circumcision but women were never circumcised the Gentiles were never circumcised and it could not come in the room of Circumcision to those which never were circumcised But you will say that women were virtually circumcised in the men c. And why are they not baptized virtually in the men too if you will take your rule from Circumcision let them be baptized in the men too 4. There is no parity but a disparity between Baptism and Circumcision as your self in some things have noted 1. In the action 2. in the time 3. in the subject 4. in the end First in the action that was the cutting of the foreskin of the flesh which occasioned blood this of Baptism a dipping into or under water Secondly for the time that was to be done at eight dayes old this of Baptism when the party desireth it professing faith and repentance to the satisfying of the Church be when it will Thirdly for the subject that was the Male only this of Baptism is to be administred on both men and women professing faith in our Lord Jesus and repentance towards God Fourthly for the end that is far wide as will appear in this ensuing Parallel 1. Circumcision set forth Christ to come 1. Baptism declares Christ already come 2. Circumcision represented the circumcision of the heart the cutting off of sin and self c. 2. Baptism declares the washing away of the guilt of sin and death and burial with
Jesus Christ 3. That was a seal of Abrahams faith 3. Baptism is no seal but the Spirit of Christ These things considered there is neither probability reason or Scripture for the coming of Baptism in the room of Circumcision First there is no Scripture for it when false Apostles went about to bring in Circumcision Act. 15. 10. Gal. 1. the Apostle never mentions Baptism at all if it had come in the room of Circumcision they might easily have stopped their mouths with this You have Baptism in the room of it what need you trouble your selves so much But they never made use of this as an answer therefore it s evident that it came not in the room of it 2. It was in being together 3. It could not be so to them that were never circumcised And 4. there being no parity between them I adde 5. If you will have it in the room of something why might it not come in the room of those Legal washings that were amongst the Jews as well as in the room of Circumcision there is a parity in the one and likelier in the end too but none in the other their Religion viz. the Jews consisted in divers washings Heb. 9. 10. so that if you must of necessity have it to come in the room of any thing why not in the room of those washings Yet I do not believe that it came in the room of this or any other legal Ordinance but that God gave what Ordinances he pleased to that ministration and Jesus Christ gave what Ordinances he pleased to this ministration not one Ordinance putting out the other but Christ being the end of all gives out new upon his own account But secondly put case what you say were truth that it were come in the room of Circumcision which can never be proved either from Scripture or reason yet what will this help you We are or profess our selves to be Christs servants then hearken to him and obey his voice receive the Law from his mouth for he is the Messenger of the Lord of Hosts Let Christ be King give but so much honour to him as to inform you who is to be baptized and the time when it is to be done the manner how and the controversie will be soon ended The truth of the business being thus considered your Assertion and yout Parallels I leave to the consideration of the understanding Reader and so pursue you to your third Argument The third Argument Where there is a command for a thing never yet countermanded or forbidden there that thing is still in force But there is a command for signing the Infants of believers never yet countermanded or forbidden Ergo It is still in force This Argument is easily answered only it 's stated confusedly if you intend by the command for signing Believers children that of Circumcision as I suppose you do then I think that is repealed and forbidden for the Apostle saith to the Galatians that if they be circumcised Christ shall profit them nothing at all And if you deny this truth we may well take the Apostles advice Phil. 3. Beware of the concision for we are the Circumcision who worship God in the Spirit c. If you by the sign intend Baptism you had done well to shew where it was commanded to Infants and if nowhere commanded then no need of repealing or forbidding If you intend that Baptism was commanded in Circumcision that hath been answered already and it is but a whimsie of your own head there hath not been any Scripture yet produced for the confirmation of it nor ever is like to be all you say in this is but the substance of what you have said already you dance about in a line and are gotten no further yet then in your former Arguments it 's just the old Proverb A great cry and a little wooll Truly if you did know and love the Lord Jesus you could not you would not dare to go back to lay the foundation of Gospel ordinances in Legal institutions but you would look to Christ and hearken what he hath said and believe it every one that refuseth to look to him shall be cut off from among his people Act. 3. 22 23. You say Let any man shew if he can when where and how this priviledge was abrogated I answer it was abrogated and repealed in Christ that as all the Services Ceremonies Covenants Canaan Natural seed and all was typical so Christ is the body and substance of all these services ceremonies c. and the spiritual people believers are the substance typed out in the natural seed So that as the natural seed were accounted for the seed that is repealed Joh. 8. 39 44. with Rom. 2. 28 29. and only the spiritual are accounted for the seed You talk much of priviledge as if baptizing of Infants were such a priviledge to them I answer 1. Our priviledges do not consist in externals but as the Covenant was made with the spiritual seed so the priviledges of the Covenant are suitable to it see Heb. 8. from the 6. verse to the end And truly it bewrayes abundance of ignorance in those that cry out so much about priviledge as if the priviledge of the Covenant of grace consisted so much in outside things What priviledge it was to the Jews to be circumcised I know not I mean to those who were never circumcised in their hearts or what priviledge it is to Infants to be baptized I wonder unless you will make it a priviledge to be in the form without the power and so to make souls think themselves Christians when they are none so deceiving and deluding them Certainly this will be but a sad priviledge one day when both teachers and taught must give an account together I could sometimes be freely willing to part even with tears of blood in sight and sense of those many thousands yea millions of souls deeply deluded with pretended priviledges who think themselves in a good condition and in a moment go down to hell For the wicked must be turned into hell and all those who forget God And the Leaders of the people cause them to erre and they that are led of them are destroyed Isa 9. 16. Is it not much better more safe and an act of faithfulness for parents to deal faithfully with their children and let them know that they are not in the Covenant of grace but that by nature they are children of wrath as well as others that so they may through mercy come to the sight of their natural condition and their need of Christ rather then to delude them with toyes and fancies meer imaginations of the fleshly mind vainly puffed up Oh the Lord will make you know one day what it is thus to lift up your selves in fleshly boasting and to make a nose of wax of the Covenant of grace turn it which way you please in one day and out another 1. Believers children in 2. All professing
and errours the rest of them Inventions falslely charged by him 1. That Infant-Baptism came from the Pope and the Devil The truth of this assertion I refer the Reader to what I have said before and there you will see the Pope very probably that brought it in Higinus in the second Century 150 years after Christ 2. That Christ hath abolished the Law that is as to Believers as a dispensation in the hands of Moses see 2 Cor. 3. 11. 13. And the pure Gospel is the only Rule What son of Belial dare to deny this for the Law is brought forth in Gospel and as given forth by Christ is the pure Gospel Rule therefore though the substance of the old Command yet is called new because given forth upon the new and true account 1 Ioh. 2. 7. 8. 3. A Socinian his Tenet is that all gifted persons may preach without Ordination This is according to the truth of Scripture 1 Cor. 4. 31. 34. Where all that have gifts may prophesie none exempted except women 4. He is a Familist approving of dreams c. Answ That is false I do not approve them yet neither do I altogether deny but God may manifest himself in that way if he please not that it is my experience neither would I limit God Against Vniversities Arts Sciences not in themselves upon the humane account but as they are set up in the room of the Spirit of Christ so the wisdom of the world is foolishness with God 5. He is an Antiscripturist denying the truth of Scripture c. Answ Another most abominable falshood who will be the lyar anon Thomas Hall but you prove it learnedly 1. Because I approve of such who will not permit you to draw any consequences from Scripture because you have so much abused them with your consequences 2. Because minding some of your consequences I conclude that they are as true as Scripture if the people would but believe it You infer then that these consequences must be true or the Scripture is false I say and I supposed that you had had wit enough to understand that I spake in your language or in your sence that you account these consequences as true as Scripture if the people would believe you 3. He saith that in his general Epistle to the Saints chap. 10. p. 28. the Scripure is not sufficient to teach the knowledge of God I Query of any one who knows the Lord whether the Scripture without the Spirit of Christ doth or can teach any one true and saving knowledge and that some make too much of it that is such as Thomas Hall who think it able without the Spirit of Christ to teach the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and if you could have told all you might have seen and said that I say there likewise that many make too little of it and that the substance of my Discourse there is to hold forth the truth and authority of the Scripture in the light of the Spirit that so souls by the teaching of the Spirit of Christ may come to a right understanding of them and that indeed its your selves that truly teach people to deny Scripture I own the truth of it and say that whoever denieth it must deny God Christ and all Religion and the truth is that your self it is that disowns it and reproacheth it too further then it stands with your own will 6. You say He is an Arian and Anti-Trinitarian denyes the Father Son and Holy Ghost are three distinct persons c. Answ I deny not the Trinity Father Son and Spirit but I deny any person in the Godhead at all that is a word or title given only to man and the Scripture you mention Heb. 1. 3. I am not altogether so ignorant of it as you would have me it is substance and not Person and this you know and abuse it not ignorantly but wilfully The same word Heb. 11. 1. is rendred substance 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 faith is the substance of things hoped for not the Person that would be nonsense you must produce some Scripture where that Prosopon which signifieth Person is attributed to God or that Hypostasis is attributed to man before you can have any colour to call God three Persons or one either for he is a Spirit and will be worshipped in Spirit and Truth 7. He is an Anti-Sabbatarian he is all for a Spiritual Sabbath Answ Because I write of a spiritual Sabbath doth it therefore follow that I am an Anti-Sabbatarian have you ever seen any thing written by me against the Sabbath have you not cause to blush at your weakness or wickedness because I discover the spiritual Sabbath therfore you say I am against the Sabbath 8. An Independent as to man and creatures in the things of God but only on Jesus Christ and is this such a dangerous thing to be off from every thing save Jesus Christ 9. Arigid Separatist Answ Never too rigid in separating from Babylons false ways and worships which is no other then the Synagogue of Satan a Cage of every unclean and hatefull Bird I say it again for all your anger I must be faithfull I may not pittie or spare you for that will ruine you 10. A Perfectist see his Generall Epist to the Saints ch 15. p. 52. Answ No other then is the duty of every Saint to be that is pressing after perfection I there declare that perfection is not attainable in this life till the body of flesh is dissolved nor till the Resurrection neither I say no more of this but refer the Reader to the Epistle it self where you may see how the Hall hath stored up lyes to reproach the innocent 11. He is an enemy to all Learning he oft calls it the language of the beast c. Answ Keep it in its place and do as much good as you can with it but let it once get in the room of the Spirit then it puffs up with pride then it s but the language of the Beast of the fleshly man the smoak of the bottomless pit of mans wisdom and that which must be destroyed That the Spirit and Scriptures are sufficient for the Ministers calling c. At this you seem to rage extreamly as if this were such a dangerous Heresie that deserves no less then a stake a faggot and a fire could Tho Hall have his will let the Understanding judge I am sure I have heard one of your brethren more famous then ever your self in the eyes of the people assert this that the Scripture was sufficient for the Ministers calling c. who left out the Spirit of Christ but it seems your abilities depend upon your good old books Popish Fathers c. 12. He is against Magistrates Answ No such thing only my desire is that Magistrates should not rule where its alone Christs Prerogative I desire to give to Caesar that which is his and to God that which is his 13. Against Ministry Ans
THE Font-Guard Routed OR A brief ANSWER to a Book written by Thomas Hall superscribed with this Title The Font Guarded with 20. Arguments Therein endeavouring to prove the lawfulness of Infant-Baptism WHEREIN His Arguments are examined and being weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary are found too light The most considerable of Mr. Baxters Arguments for Infant-Baptism being produced by Tho. Hall are here answered likewise To which is added A Word of Reply to Tho. Halls Word to Collier And another to John Feriby's Appendix called The Pulpit-Guard Relieved With an Answer to Richard Sanders's pretended Balm to heal Religious wounds in answer to the Pulpit-Guard Routed With an humble Representation of some few Proposals to the Honorable Committee appointed by the Parliament for Propagation of the Gospel Written by Tho. Collier If ye love me keep my commandments Joh. 14. 15. If ye continue in my word then are ye my Disciples indeed Joh. 8. 31. LONDON Printed for the Author and are to be sold by Giles Calvert at the Black Spread Eagle neer the West-end of Pauls 1652. Some few Proposals to the Honorable Committee for Propagation of the Gospel Honoured Sirs GOD having been pleased to bring us forth in such an Age of the world wherein we have seen through mercy not only his work of power in dethroning of unrighteous men but likewise in a measure the arising of the Son of Righteousness with healing in his wings and I trust to take to himself his great Kingdom and to reign The business committed to you by and next to the Supreme Authority of the Nation being of very great concernment and indeed that which relates to him who is the most Supreme He who is Lord of Lords and King of Kings Notwithstanding I find there have been many Proposals unto your Honours it might be altogether needless for such a one as I to propose any thing unto your Wisdoms yet not doubting your willingness to hear what the weakest may propound in this great business though by it nothing be added to you I providentially and occasionally coming to this City could not with good conscience depart from hence without presenting something unto your Honours as to the thing in hand If in it to you or any others I do appear a fool let me be excused I have performed in this my duty both to my Lord and you My desire is that the former presidents of miscarriages in changing times may be a warning unto us viz. The plucking up of one Form and planting of another by the Magisterial power Every plant that the Heavenly Father hath not planted must be plucked up My desire is not to be tedious but in a word out of tenderness to the honour of the Lord Jesus and the Authority of the Nation that there may be given to GOD those things that are his and to Caesar those things that are his have I humbly presented these following Proposals unto your Honours 1. Whether or no Jesus Christ be not the alone Spiritual King in and over all Cases of Conscience relating to Worship Psal 2. Rev. 15. 3 4. Act. 3. 22 23. Mat. 28. 18. 2. Whether he hath surrendred up any part of this Authority to any Civil Magistrate under the Gospel Jam. 4. 11 12. Rom. 14. 4. 3. Whether because the Jewish Magistracie according to the command of God took cognisance of such things they with all the rest of their Ordinances being typical in their anointing power and rule c. it being all swallowed up into Christ the substance he being the alone King of his people be any ground for Magistrates now to do the like 4. Whether to do the like be not to deny Christ to be come in the flesh and to deny his Kingly Authority 5. Whether the work of the Magistrate as a Magistrate do not primely relate to the bodies of men and things of this world that so they may be for the praise of them that do well and for the punishment of evil doers Rom. 13. 6. Whether it be not the work whereunto God hath called them to protect all that live peaceably and civilly in obedience to the Civil Law of the Nation and to encourage and protect the Servants of the Lord alike in the Preaching and professing the Gospel though differing in their apprehensions leaving the judgment of Cases of Conscience unto Christ as before 7. VVhether a State-maintenance for the Ministery of Christ be agreeable to any Rule in the Gospel 8. VVhether it hath not been and is a way to make men rather State-Ministers then Christs Ministers 9. VVhether this hath not proved dishonorable to Iesus Christ and the Truth having drawn so many into the worldly Ministery for love of gain 10. VVhether it be not the duty of the Magistrate to permit the Jews whose Conversion is promised and we pretend to expect it to live peaceably amongst us FINIS The Epistle to the Reader Reader I Having so suddenly and almost unexpectedly brought forth this Treatise to publique view Plainness and brevity thou mayst find in it though but little of that excellencie which mans wisdom teacheth yet something of the truth of Jesus mayst thou find there in the plain evidence of the Spirit and power of truth And whereas thou seest many differences in the world about the worship of God it behoves thee so much the more to querie after it for it is the duty of those who have an interest in Christ to do his will If ye love me saith Christ keep my commandments Joh. 14. 15. and that is the way to attain an increase in the knowledge of the will of God viz. a doing of what we know Joh. 7 17. I have here presented to thy view several Replies unto several Men and Things First to the Font-guarded wherein you have gathered up all the Arguments of former Writers especially Mr. Baxters and drawn into 20 Arguments To all which I have given a brief Reply and although brief yet I question not but with such plainness and clearness as that he that runs may read and in it through mercy thou mayst come to see the clear difference between Moses and Christ the Covenant of the Law and the Covenant of the Gospel the ordinances ministry and worships of the one and of the other and because God hath made me publike in the profession of his truth I judge my self bound in conscience and duty to Jesus Christ to vindicate that truth I profess every command and truth of Jesus being to a lover of the truth more precious then that of gold and although hither unto I have and may still expect to pass through many reproaches for the sake of Christ through good and bad report yet I weigh it not none of these things trouble me it was the portion of Christ himself and if they called the master of the house Beelzebub what will they not do to the servant I trust that notwithstanding the rudeness and rage of those
men who seek themselves yet God hath hitherto so kept and carried me that I may say truly I have endeavoured to keep a Conscience void of offence both before God and men And as to those Principles of Truth by me owned although judged by men yet my judgement is with the Lord and he knows the way of his People but the way of the wicked shall perish Though I pass under the censure of Tho. Hall whom nothing but Fire and Fagot can satisfie and under the ignominious reproaches of Feriby Sanders and a thousand more yet none of these things trouble me and let none think that I am besides my self because I thus profess and write for if I am it is to the Lord and for your sakes for whom my desire is that you may be made partaker of the truth and that as it is in Jesus not after the will of men but of God I have presented to thy consideration these two things First the insufficiency of all those grounds produced for Infant-Baptism wherein its weakness and inconsistency with the Gospel will appear and the continued practice of the baptizing of Believers cleared and vindicated 2. A brief Reply to John Feriby and Richard Sanders wherein you may finde a farther confirmation of the truth asserted in the Pulpit-Guard Routed viz. the lawfulness of the Preaching of Gifted Brethren I have likewise three things to desire of the Reader 1. To read and judge Read and consider what thou readest for I have endeavoured to compose much in few words and that because I judged it to be for thy profit large Discourses being sometimes not so usefull therefore I say be content to spare a little time to consider and contemplate upon what thou readest and happily thou mayest come to see all those strong Guards broken and disperst as the morning dew before the Sun 2. Read with patience and be not troubled at that which may seem to thee to be harsh language or contrary to thy understanding and this I assure thee considering the Spirits of those men with whom I have had to deal I have passed through with as much moderation as possibly I could without betraying the Cause and giving but a word of reproof to an insulting adversary 3. Read and judge impartially lean not to the right hand or to the left for affection sake but desire the Lord from an impartial unbyast heart to lead thee into the truth resolve not to follow the traditions of men or Churches but the written word of Truth which is able to give thee direction as a rule of life through the blessing of the Spirit of Jesus and to make the man of God perfect throughly furnishing him to every good work Tho. Collier THE Font-Guard Routed SIR IT S faln to my lot once more to encounter with you and why to me more then to others because not only the Truth of Jesus his Honour and his servants in the profession of it lieth at stake but my self likewise in a special manner being not only concerned in the case in hand but likewise being deeply aspersed by your Libellous Tongue and Pen in your succeeding word to one Collier to which I shall reply in its time and place But Sir by the way it seems you are become an absolute Souldier a grand Captain Leader But what 's the work To guard Pulpits and Fonts forsooth I suppose you 'l be cautious of suffering much in defence of your Cause if you had intended it you would not have set your guards about that which none intends to take from you that I know of But is it truth in good earnest that your Font is affronted 1. I wonder you had not had more wisdom and forecast in you at first and have set your Guard round about your Kirk so one might have served for the whole and have saved you much labour and expence of time but I suppose your wisdom lay in this You guarded the Pulpit first that so being routed there you might have a fair retreat to the holy Font and when routed there you might sound another retreat but whither I know not unless to the high Altar viz. the Communion Table so called or into the Belfrey to secure the holy baptized Bels In Pope Johns time the 14. began the vile superstition of baptizing Bels Simpsons History of the Church Cent. 10. Or to take the Church doors c. But whither am I wandring I say no more of this but leave my name sake Tom to his own choice 2. I wonder that a wise man as Tho. Hall should have so little wit or so much idle time to set up such a strong guard in defence of that which none intends to take from him we baptize in Rivers not in Fonts we do not intend to take them from you no we know not what to do with them unless c. But 3. Did you ever read in Scripture of the Font or of baptizing in the Font I know you have not I remember I have read in the Popish Histories of the holy Font in the first institution of Infants baptism from thence you had both as in its time and place I shall let you see Now to your Arguments for that is it I intend to fall upon letting pass all other things for if I rout you there as I doubt not in the strength of Jehovah whom I serve in my spirit but that I shall rout you in all your twenty Arguments so the Commands of Christ and practise of the Apostles may stand clear before the sons of men and the Churches practise in baptizing Believers vindicated in opposition to all gainsayers Now to your first Argument Page 8. From the Covenant of grace which God made with the Faithfull and their Seed they are confederates say you joyned together in the Covenant of God c. Your first Argument is this Page 9. To whomsoever the Covenant it self belongs to them also belongs the seal of the Covenant But the Covenant belongs to Believers and their Children Ergo The seal of the Covenant belongs to them also I answer First your Minor is denyed That Children of Believers are in the Covenant of grace and here lies the ground of your miscarriage ignorance and error in this particular We will therefore come first to consider the Covenant it self which is the foundation on which you stand Gen. 17 7 10 11. This Covenant it self is wholly outward and it consists of two parts the one on Gods part to be performed the other on Abrahams and his childrens part That on Gods is in ver 7 8. I will be a God to thee and to thy seed after thee and I will give unto thee and to thy seed after thee the Land of thy sojourning all the Land of Canaan for an everlasting possession and will be their God This Covenant is outward and consists of an outward promise The Land of Canaan c. and is not in it self the everlasting Covenant of grace
It s true there is grace in this Covenant yet it is not the Covenant of grace there is grace in this for it is grace for God declaratively to be a God to a People And secondly there was the everlasting grace included typically in this Covenant for it relates in the mysterie unto Christ as all outward Covenants Services and the Land of Canaan it self did Gal. 3. 6 Col. 2. 17. Heb. 4. from ver 3. to the 8. That it was an outward Covenant will appear 1. The thing promised in the Covenant was outward i. e. The Land of Canaan Object He promised to be a God unto them in an everlasting Covenant Answ 1. This was a promise in an outward Covenant as will appear Isa 10. 22 23. compared with Rom. 9. 29. Though the Children of Israel be as the sand of the sea yet a remnant of them shall be saved Now if God had been a God unto them in the Covenant of grace they must have been all saved and have continued in that Covenant unto this day but it being but an outward and typical Covenant relating to Christ the antitype and substance when Christ was come that Covenant was dissolved into Christ and is given forth upon the true spiritual account to the spiritual seed Gal. 3. 16. with 29. 2. It s said to be an everlasting Covenant either 1. because it was to continue its appointed time so called Everlasting as usually the old Testament Ordinances were so God promised in this Covenant to give the Land of Canaan for an everlasting possession yet they are and have been many hundreds of years turned out of it and if they had not yet that could but have been a poffession for them in their generations till the end of the world But the Covenant of grace reaches to eternity without end Psal 103. 17. Hence the Priesthood of the Law was called an everlasting Priesthood Exod. 40. 15. Num. 25. 13. Or secondly it s called Everlasting upon the account of Christ who was the substance and the Covenant it self when he came ending all other Covenants and Services Isa 42. 6. So Davids Kingdom was said to be Everlasting upon the account of Christ who was and is the true spiritual King of whom David was a type 2 Sam. 7. 16. Ps 89. 35 36. compared with Ezek. 37. 24 25. David was dead long before yet David viz. Christ must be their King for ever Thus it appears first from the Covenant it self on Gods part that it was not the Covenant of grace though grace was darkly and typically included in it only the enlightened renewed soul saw into it and partaked of Christ the substance But secondly it will appear likewise if we consider the second part of the Covenant on Abraham and his childrens part Every man-child shall be circumcised at eight dayes old v. 10. 11 12. Here is an external obedience suitable to an external covenant God promiseth the land of Canaan in lieu of this they must be circumcised which shall be a sign of their obedience and to God of his Covenant as the Rain-bow in another case 2. The Covenant being thus considered it followeth that notwithstanding this Covenant was to Abraham and his seed natural yet it is not to Believers now and their seed natural This denies your Minor and this Scripture produced by you doth not prove it Your other Scripture Act. 2. 39. I shall answer in its place when I come to your Argument drawn from it And whereas you say That there are some Infants in the Covenant of grace I deny it positively that there are Infants in the Covenant of grace upon your account viz. the account of nature because born of believing parents all fleshly boasting being taken away Rom. 3. 27. As the Covenant to Abraham and his seed was outward and typical so the Covenant of Christ or Christ the Covenant is to the spiritual seed and that only those who are of the saith of Abraham who do the works of Abraham they and they only are the seed of Abraham Joh. 8. 39. He is not a Jew that is one outwardly but he is a Jew that is one inwardly Rom. 2. 28 29. where as the outward Covenant so the natural seed are cut off and only the spiritual stands And whereas you say there is an outward being in this Covenant c. Ishmael was circumcjsed I say so too for in it self it was wholly outward this and all other Covenants and services were outward and typical except the first promise Gen. 3. The Covenant of grace now in the dayes of Christ is wholly spiritual Those then that were enlightened which were but few saw and enjoyed the substance in the shadow and form We first the substance and with it the form They were first brought by works to Christ we first to Christ and then to works as fruits of faith And whereas you conclude Baptism to be a Seal of the Covenant of Grace you are as much besides the truth in this as in the Covenant it self Because you have heard others say it therefore you affirm it too as children use to speak by tradition but where is your Scripture for it Did you ever read of any New-Testament seal besides the Spirit of Christ Ephes 1. 13. ch 4. 30. But I suppose because that it 's said Rom. 4. 11. that Abraham received the sign of Circumcision a seal of the righteousness of his faith which he had before he was circumcised that therefore Baptism is a seal of the Covenant of grace Oh gross mistake Abraham believed God when he first promised him the land of Canaan and commanded him to forsake all and go into it and that he would keep him and bless him Gen. 12. Here Abraham believed God and obeyed and went out not knowing whither and v. 17. God gave him Circumcision a sign and seal to confirm his faith which he had before in this promise And as Circumcision was given a seal of Abrahams faith in Gods promising him the land of Canaan so the Spirt of grace is the seal of faith to every believer of his interest in the spiritual land the substance of the outward the Lord Jesus So you are lost both in Covenant in Seal in the Subjects of the Covenant and all You mention Gal. 4. 28. I say upon the Gospel-account its truth as Isaac was heir to that Covenant so all true believers are heirs of the true promise and none else Whereas you say pag. 11. in way of answer to an objection That theirs is old and ended c. you answer That to make that old none but carnal Anabaptists will do it Your mouth is wide but let it pass I answer To make that Covenant which was of an outward land the same as ours which is of a spiritual land to bring in the natural seed upon that account when it is only to the spiritual seed none but a carnal and blind generation of men dare to do Christ saith
Christ in though never so wicked 3. Bastards in all in and all as soon and as well as any See pag. 5. I must tell you and that from the Lord you will have a sad account to give to the Lord one day if mercy prevent not for your abusing the Covenant of grace and thrusting a fleshly generation upon the Lord when he is seeking a spiritual a holy seed to worship him and I would have you to know that those you so often and with so much contempt and reproach term Anabaptists are not so simple as you would perswade the world to believe they are able through mercy to see into your forgeries and delusions and to discover them too in a measure and to distinguish between Law and Gospel Covenant and Covenant not confounding things together so denying Christ to be come in the flesh I shall in a word give you the difference The Covenant of the Law either that with Abraham or with Moses was a Covenant without them and the mysterie or substance was hid from all though all was in it unless those few taught of God The Covenant of the Gospel is wholly spiritual and none are in it but the spiritual seed viz. true believers though hypocrites may come in to the outward profession yet they have nothing to do to be there for there is no outside in the Covenant of grace That which you call the outward Covenant is but the outward profession of the invisible grace and that is proper only to those who are in it although the Disciples did and we may admit those that may prove hypocrites yet neither did they nor may we admit any by baptism into the visible profession of the invisible grace but those we judge by the rule of truth in this particular to have true faith and if any come in that have it not to their own peril it will be Therefore if this be truth as I am sure it is what account will those give to the Lord who bring in the natural seed to the profession of the spiritual Covenant and so make them hypocrites A day will come when the sinners in Sion shall be afraid and fearfulness shall surprise the hypocrite Isa 33. So I conclude that Infants are not in the Covenant of grace nor were ever commanded to be baptized therefore have no right unto it The fourth Argument Christians ought to be baptized But Infants of Christians are Christians Ergo They ought to be baptized Answ 1. If this Argument were truth it were a very easie thing to be a Christian Born Christians by nature no need of Christ the Gospel Spirit Regeneration any thing it makes void all the whole Gospel of grace and peace a doctrine of Devils indeed Do you not remember that Paul saith If any man preach any other Gospel then what he had preached he should be accursed Gal. 1. But you have found out another Gospel Christians by the natural generation and birth Cursed be all such soul deceiving and soul destroying Doctrines You pretend to prove your Minor with much clearness As all the parings of Gold are Gold so all the children of Christians are Christians The parings of gold are true gold and the children of Christians by this account are true Christians pared out from the spiritual man being of the same nature oh high priviledge Christians can beget Christians Saints can beget Saints by natural generation Certainly if one of the preaching brethren had laid down such an assertion you would have counted him an illiterate Ignoramus one altogether unmeet to have medled with the Scriptures or to have spoken of the things of God You would have accounted him no less then a blasphemer and worthy to be burnt with his Books Well but you proceed As all the Children of the Jews were Jews by birth Gal. 2. 15. And all the Children of the Turks are Turks by birth so all the Children of Christians are Christians and have a right to Baptism Answ 1. The Jews were all in an outward Covenant and so they were born Jews viz. in that Covenant but believers are in the Covenant of grace as hath been already proved and none are born in that Covenant by natural generation and birth so that although Jews were Jews by birth yet Christians are not so by the natural birth for that which is born of the Spirit is spirit But secondly the Jews were so by birth as a distinguishing title from other Nations so the Turks are Turks and the Spaniards are Spaniards and the French are French and the English are English by birth but they neither of them are Christians by birth But you seem to mend all in answering an Objection Then we should be born Christians and not made Christians we should be born children of God and not children of wrath You answer Parents cannot convey grace to their Children but a right to Church priviledges c. unheard of nonsence and confusion miserable bald shifts men make to patch up their own inventions 1. Christians yet no grace a right to Church-priviledges yet no grace Members of the Church yet no grace page 23. Nay members of the Church Christians a right to Church priviledges holy c. and yet have no grace are the children of wrath page 23. these are like to be goodly Christians Church Members c. Yet you dislike with the Anabaptists for not taking notice of this distinction c. A strange kind of distinction to make them Christians yet no Christians Members of the Church yet children of wrath I suppose you would learn to distinguish a little better were it not to please the vulgar sort of people that so they may please you in feeding you with the Tythes A sad thing when you shall lead along souls blind with the name of Christian yet children of wrath and if mercy prevent not are like to perish eternally for all the name of Christian Thus are souls deluded by their Teachers called Christians made Church-members and yet Children of wrath c. Alike children of wrath as Heathens page 10. The fifth Argument From Christs command and commission to his Disciples Mat. 28. 19. and from the Apostles practise answerable to that command thus your argue That which is both commanded and commended that hath both precept president and promise for it may lawfully be practised by the Ministers of Jesus Christ But Infant-Baptism is both commanded and commended for it there is both precept president and promise Ergo. Well said namesake Tom Prove this and thou hast done the deed that never yet was done Prove this and I will lay down my Arguments and practise too Had you a good cause you its like would be very bold that you dare be so bold in asserting such an Argument in such positive terms when there is never a word in Scripture of either precept president or promise to the thing you are pleading for so that your Minor is denyed You pretend to prove it
to consider whether it be from above or from beneath c. You say Page 5. There is in my Book Page 19. enough granted for your Purpose T is because you do in this as in other things take but Part of what I say For though I say that none can preach according to the intention of that Scripture Rom. 10. 15. for the working of Faith and Converting of souls yet it doth not follow that every Gifted Brother may not Preach But you leave out that which follows viz. for every Gifted Brother is sent to preach according to the measure of the Gift recieved And the Mistake lieth in the word sent thinking that none but men in Office are sent of God to convert souls when Gifted Brethren are sometimes sent though not in Office Acts 8. 4. with 11. 19 21. All you say in Answer to that that gifting is sending c reacheth not the business in hand For 1. It doth not appear in those Scriptures you mention Isa 6 8 9. Mat. 10 1 5. that they were first gifted then sent Go tell them saith the Lord to Isaiah Gods putting the word in his mouth was the gifting Yet 2. I deny not in the ordinary way of prophesying and preaching gifting to precede sending first to those who are authoritatively sent by the Church or secondly to those who preach only by gift according to the measure of the gift received It is sending and they may and ought according to the measure of the gift both in the Church and out of the Church viz. in the world as occasion is offered God in those occasions calling them to it accordingly to administer Secondly you say that he is very unhappy in confounding ordinary and extraordinary Cases I answer first that extraordinary Cases make not that lawfull which in it self is unlawfull unless in cases of necessity for preservation of life then I will have mercy and not sacrifice unless it be in the bearing up of the name and truth of Christ then he that will save his life shall lose it Witness Vzzah 1 Chro. 13. 9. 10. for putting his hand to stay the Ark was smote with death So that your so often mentioning extraordinary cases helps you nothing for it s not the extraordinariness of the case that justifies the thing if it be in it self unlawfull so that you do indeed condemn the practice of the Saints recorded in Scripture for our example in Acts Chap. 8. and 11. with divers others and all for the keeping up your own Ends and Interests I am sure if you stood in the counsel and truth of Jesus the preaching of the Brethren could not would not trouble you As for what is said from pag. 8 to 10. I refer the Reader to the clearness of the assertions in my Book Pag. 9. You say The Gentleman Pretended Servants for so the word Minister signifies yet Gentle men-Masters Servants ruling over their Masters having said that the Holy-Ghost commends Learning he Replyes pag. 41. Holy Ghost is there any such word in the Scripture as Ghost You say How now which way went the Spirit of God from him what immediately inspired yet ignorant of this hath he forgotten Mat. 28. 20. c Ans Nay Sir he hath not quite forgotten it but have you indeed forgotten or else did you never learn it that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifiyeth spirit not ghost and so it is translated and read in all other languages except the English and sometimes it s truly translated in English too and the word ghost is an old English Popish ugly word which indeed if rightly considered is not so fit to be given to the Holy Spirit As for the interpretation of I. Cor. 14. 31. 32. Let the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets though I deny not what is mentioned v. 29. that the Prophets speak two or three and the others judge for the Church is to judge of the doctrine taught in it yet it s evident to any whose eyes are not shut against the truth that the interpretation of v 31 32. is in v 33 for God is not the author of confusion but of peace See his Brother Richard Sanders confuting this in his Balm to heal religious wounds pag. 202. he saith The spirit of the Prophets was subject to the Prophets that is the Spirit of Prophesie was not so violent on them but that they had power to contain themselves and to stay one for another and so to speak in order c. Here Richard Sanders confutes John Ferriby let the Reader judge As to what you say in the rest in way of Reply there being no weight at all in it I pass by it referring the Reader to the examination of that Book you pretend to Answer Where I make no question but that the clearness of the truth asserted will appear to the satisfaction of any unbyassed and impartial Reader As for your reproachfull terms which is indeed the sum of all your Answer I pass it by as unworthy taking notice leaving the controversie betwixt both you and us unto the righteous Judge who will in his own time bring it forth to the light and put a difference between those who serve the Lord Jesus and those who serve their own bellies To him and with him I leave the controversie who undoubtedly will plead his own Cause and Truth in his own Time AN ANSWER To a Book written by one Richard Sanders of Kentishbeer entituled A Balm to heal Religious wounds Called An Answer to the Pulpit-Guard Routed written by Thomas Collier SIR MEeting with your Book the Title bespeaks what I find not in it 1. You call it A Balm to heal Religious wounds c. But when I came to take a view of it I found it far from the nature of its name but it rather tends to make the wounds deeper and the breach wider your book being stuffed with as much rancor almost in every page as any I have read except Tho. Halls who writ the Pulpit and Font Guards So that if what you say of mine were a truth you have ballanced it on the other hand down to the ground viz. with reproachfull terms and as for that you call harsh language in mine it is no other then what hath been given by the servants of the Lord in Scripture upon the like occasion 2. You call it An Answer to the Pulpit-Guard Routed Two open and cleer untruths in the Title First A Balm to heal Religious wounds when it is far from it Secondly An Answer to the Pulpit-Guard Routed when you scarce come so neer as to meddle with it unless with railing and reproachful terms and if that be a sufficient answer you have done it to the purpose Or secondly in passing by the material and substantial things you have culled out some few particular things calling them Colliers Errors when they are undoubted truths unless those which are abused by you changing the terms in which by me
they were asserted as will appear in its place I pass your Epistle and come first to your five serious Questions 1. Qu. Whether such an uncharitable censorious proud disdainfull inveterate calumniating spirit as works in this man and others of the same lump doth ever shew it self in Scripture Ans 1. If not then you have declared your self to be as far from the spirit of a Christian upon the same account as the Collier whom you so much reproach witness this very question propounded and almost every page in your book witnesseth it but I desire not to scrape them up together And secondly The truth of those titles mentioned by you pag. 6. I leave to the Reader to judge and if I am become your enemy for telling you the truth I am contented through mercy to pass under your censure Your 2. quest Vpon what ground think you should he and men of the same temper and spirit with him use such bitterness against the Ministery c. Ans 1. We never used such bitterness against the Ministery of the Nation as they have against us We never desired to get an Ordinance from both Houses of Parliament to have them burnt in the forehead with the letter B. to have them imprisoned without Bail or Main-prise c. Though this is no ground to retort bitterness again in way of revenge but rather to pitty them 2. It is not their persons but their destructive Principles against which I write the Lord who knoweth all things knoweth that I lye not I should rejoyce in their conversion and do not question but that there are many that are honest and godly of them yet in Babylon and their duty is to come forth and till then blame us not for our dealing faithfully though sometimes ruggedly with them And I would have you to know that it is not a power to persecute them we look for no I had a thousand times rather Thomas Halls desire were granted to him that I with my books were burnt together then to have a hand in the personal persecution of Tho. Hall your self or any other for any principle or practise you hold in Conscience though it be known to me that it is contrary to truth Your 3. Quest Whether this open enmity against the Ministery of England which these men proclaim to all the world inveighing against them as Antichristian be not a thing abhorred of all gracious hearts For proof of this you produce Mr. Tho. Goodwyn Mr. Philip Nye Mr. Sidrach Simpson Mr. Jeremiah Burroughs Mr. William Bridge Apol. Nar. p 6. Ans The honesty of these men I question not Yet first what they say proves not the truth of what you desire for it is not the testimony of men but of God in the Scripture that will justifie both Ministry and Church And if that would do it I could produce others of the same way I suppose none will deny but that they were equal with them for godliness and learning who say the contrary Ainsworth Smith Robinson You seem to propound a strange Querie pag. 14. Whither would these men transport and carry you Not only off from Presbytery but Independents c. Ans In the light and power of truth we would carry them to the Lord Jesus that so they might know and obey him and worship the Father in him in spirit and in truth and this is the utmost that we desire And truly this is that which is my principle and practise 1. That we are justified freely by grace And 2. that this Justification where it is in truth enjoyed works over souls to a holy and humble walking with the Lord and obedience to him in all things That it is the duty of Believers according to the command of Christ and practise of his servants in the Primitive times to be baptized and so come into Church fellowship walking as with the Lord so one with another in love performing all duties of brotherly love as becometh souls made one in so high and heavenly a calling And hither it is we would transport and carry every soul that knows the Lord and this is a journey that you who call your selves Ministers cannot endure to undertake nor suffer those that would Your 4. Question is Were such things heard of in former times among the old Puritans c. Ans They were not sensible of those delusions in that way which now appear and many of them are made sensible of it and are departed from it Gods people cannot but depart out of Babylon when once they see themselves there and hear the Lords voice saying Come out of her my people partake not of her sins lest you partake of her plagues Those that have seen themselves in Babels confusion in respect of worship being delivered cannot but discover and lay open to others the mysterie of that iniquity though all the men and Ministers of the world dislike it c. Your 5. Question Hath it not been an old trick of such as have designed the shaking of the Christian faith first to begin with the faithfull Ministers c A. Though it hath been the design of the enemies of truth so to do yet 1. That justifies not you to be the godly Ministers And 2. The servants of the Lord may not neglect their duty in reproving sin where they find it because enemies to truth oppose the Ministers of Christ And 3. We give grounds from Scripture for what we say and do Justifie your selves to be the Ministers of Christ by your works according to Scripture and we have done till then forbear giving such language as you do to the servants of the Lord for their impartial publishing and professing of truth You 'll one day be ashamed of it So you say you come to his Errors which are many His first Error That the life of Ministers and Schollers educated in Schools of Learning is an idle life Ans 1. There are no such words in my book neither is there any truth in what you say but that which I say is that God hath always in all ages made use of men of Callings to be the Ministers of his mind unto the people and I desired you to produce any example in the Scripture that God made choice of any to be the Ministers of his mind unto the people who were bred up idly all dayes of their life without a Calling I do not say that the life of the Ministers of Christ is an idle life no I know the contrary but that which I say is that you can produce no example of any that were bred up idly without a Calling called to be Ministers yet you will have Idlers and none but them by your wils and God must have them or else he must have none at all You say o confirm this he sayes A Calling is that in and by which men in the sweat of their face get their living You answer O brave definition of a Calling c. Ans I wonder you
as any president for it you would feign presidents for sprinkling of Infants if you could but you endeavour to overturn Presidents of preaching Brethren that they should not be usefull to us let the people judge of what Spirit you are of And the reason I judge is this your own standing depends so positively upon it that unless you can uphold the one and suppress the other you are like to fall together Observ 4. That in my pleading for a general liberty of Preaching in a constituted Church I do not inform how far I extend it Whether it be with the consent of the Pastor and people or whether he may Preach whether they will or no Answ I leave the truth of this likewise to the Reader to judge whether it be not often asserted in my Book pag 29. The Churches freedom or desire is Call enough if the party be gifted to it all lawfull Calls to Preach either within or without are sutable to the Gift pag. 30. The Church hath power to Call forth a gifted Brother to do service for the Church and in the Postscript at the end it is thus written In what I have written I intend that only Brethren that have Gifts may exercise them in an orderly way that is with the desire or consent of the Church as any man might easily understand so there is no truth in your observation Obser 5. That in most of his Answers he doth not reply to the Scripture reason alledged against him but declining that as a little too hard for him That I leave to the Reader to judge whether I have declined a positive Answer to all both the Arguments and Scriptures and who hath declined the Argument and Scriptures most I in my Answers to Tho. Hall or Rich. Sanders in his answer to mine So you come you say to open several Scriptures from giving any countenance to that Babel and the two first that you will speak to is Act 8. 4. and Act 9. 20 but in this you will ohserve two Rules 1. That in weighty things of God a Christian must have a certain Rule or warrant for his practise c. I like it well and if you held firm to this truth you must deny all your own practise 2. That Arguments drawn from examples in Scripture are of credit according to the credit of the persons whose examples they are c. This I own for truth likewise But you say Those examples are of men not infallible c. How prove you that dare you question it and doth not the Scripture say the hand of the Lord was with them yet dare you question the spirit by which they were guided Acts 11. 21. All the rest you say to this is nothing at all therefore I say no more but refer the Reader to what is at large answered in the Pulpit-Guard Routed as for the second Scripture Act. 9. 20. you confess That he Preached before he was solemnly set apart to be an Apostle to the Gentiles 2. You say he was sent by an immediate voice to Ananias that he should tell him what he should do but Ananias did not bid him preach but arise and be baptized c. You minde what you have from Sauls own mouth ch 22. 14. Ananias saith to him Thou shalt be a witness to all men of what thou hast seen and heard ver 15. This was no setting of him apart to the Office he told him that he should be a witness c. but did not Ordain him unto it and upon your account Saul should have been silent till he had been ordained but he was not as before and Act. 26. 16 17 18. Gods immediate sending him was nor the outward Office as you pretend You say the other Scripture he often urges and why not having often occasion 1 Pet. 4. 10 11. Rom. 12. 6. 7. These you say are far fetcht consequences Answ They are no consequences man but plain Scripture Precepts Christians must administer their gifts therefore they must be publick Preachers c. Why not publick do the Scriptures make a difference And what you say further to these Scriptures hath been answered already therefore I say no more The ntxt Scripture is Psal 145. 10 11. All you say to this is very learnedly As though this hath any relation to publick preaching when he saith they shall make known to the sons of men his mighty Acts and the glorious Majesty of his Kingdom but this you have left out you durst not put it in your Book lest the Reader should see your folly The next Scripture is 1 Cor 14. 31. This you pretend to prove was extraordinary Prophesie and not ordinary as the Pulpit-Guard Routed sayes And you say That your great work shall be to prove that prophecy 1 Cor. 14. 31. was extraordinary and not ordinary as the Pulpit-Guard-Routed sayes 1. You say You read p. 60. that the reason why prophesie was extraordinary in the Law and this ordinary 1 Cor. 14. 3. is because its a speaking to edification exhortation and comfort c. The substance of what you seem to answer to this is 1. Because such as were prophets did speak to edification therefore those who speak to edification are prophets In this you say is some Sophistry c. But give me leave to shew your Sophistry and that first in pretending an Answer when t is nothing to the purpose the end of my using these words was to present the Reader with the difference between the Prophesie of the Old Testament which was to foretell things to come and this of the New this 1 Cor. 14. is an ordinary way of prophesie for the building up of the Church that so all may be instructed and all may be comforted 2. I answer that those Saints that can speak to edification c. are prophets nay all the Lords People are prophets therefore your Sophistry nor yet your Logick will not hold for though the ground may be wet without rain yet it is not often wet without water and if a Saint a Member of the Church can speak to edification exhortation and consolation he is a Prophet if he have the Testimony of Jesus he hath the Spirit of Prophesie 2. You say The Prophets under the Law spake to edification I answer There is none questions that but that their prophesyings had that end in it and it s so to us at this day when we come to understand them but the prophesying mentioned 1 Cor. 14. was a common and ordinary prophesying in the Church for the edification of the Body That in the Law was a foretelling of things to come and therefore written to be kept on Record to posterity this not written because ordinary and as Thomas Hall confesseth it was such a prophesie as in it they might err c. So that I say again they under the Law took not their denomination from this kind of prophesying viz. an ordinary speaking to build up souls in the present knowledge
of God but from their receiving their prophesie immediatly from God discovering things to come Whereas you say They were not called Prophets in the old Testament from the matter of their prophesie but for the manner of receiving it 1. I answer it was from both matter and manner too 2. If what you say be truth see a clear difference those 1 Cor. 14. are called Prophets not so much from the manner as the matter He that prophesieth speaketh to edification exhortation and consolation as if he should say if you would know a Prophet it is such a one as speaks to edification c. and whosoever speaks not to edification c. is no Prophet for the Apostle doth not only direct them in the manner of prophesie but in the matter too it s a word to edification and truly you either miserably contradict your selves or else do of purpose to keep souls in the dark for Thomas Hall whom you pretend to vindicate applyeth that Scripture 1 Cor. 14. 32. The spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets viz. to the probation and examination of the Presbyterie and he hath no other Scripture to prove the Presbyterian examination and probation but that yet afterwards both with him and you that prophesie is extraordinary and yet you confess that Presbyterie was an ordinary office what contradictions are these and what will you not say for your own ends You seem much to harp upon one thing and that of little consequence to the thing in hand That the extraordinary way of Revelation did denominate their sayings to be prophesies and not their foretelling things to come I say that not only that but the matter of the prophesie as well as the manner as a blind man might see or understand for if any prophesie and the matter of the prophesie proved not true he was no true Prophet therefore that the people might know a true Prophet under the Law they were to look at the matter of the prophesie not the manner of receiving it Isa 23. 26. How long shall this be in the heart of the Prophets to prophesie lies ver 28. The Prophet that hath a dream let him tell a dream and he that hath my word let him speak my word faithfully c. So that it was the faithful and true speaking of the word from whence they had the denomination of Prophet and this in substance you confess page 101. contradicting what you say p. 100. It was the extraordinary way of Revelation here it s the manifestation of their prophesie because they manifested to others by divine inspiration things past present and to come So that now you confess its the manifestation by revelation of truth that made them Prophets not the ordinary way of speaking to edification c. mentioned 1 Cor. 14. 3. As to all you say to Rev. 19 10. page 103. I may truly retort your own words I am afraid the devil hath taught you to play the Sophister for when the Text saith The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesie you say immediatly and extraordinarily inspired Doth the Text say so or is it your own invention I leave to the Reader to judge And as for your distinction from Chap. 1. ver 2. The word of God and the Testimony of Jesus it s one and the same in substance or at most the Testimony of Jesus is but an explanation of the word of God He was banished for the word of God even for the Testimony of Jesus so the Greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must of necessity sometimes be understood As Col. 2. 2. the Apostle manifesting his earnest desire for the Saints that they might come to the Knowledge of God and of the Father c. which must be rendred even of the Father a word rather to explain the former then distinguish c. So that John doth not so distinguish as if he had been more excellent then the rest of the Apostles in the testimony of Jesus c. but for that it was he was banished and the truth is that the Testimony of Jesus though not so eminent as the Apostles yet if by the same spirit according to the rule of truth and according to the measure received it is the spirit of prophesie As for what you say to that Scripture 1 Cor. 14. 37. Every spiritual man is a Prophet All the Saints are spiritual Therefore all Prophets What you with so much contempt say to this doth but discover of what spirit you are and you might know that when I say the Saints are not all Prophets page 21. I intended that they had not all the same gift of prophesie to speak to the edifying of the Church and upon that account they are not all Prophets Yet secondly they are all Prophets upon a common account and are able to speak something of God and Christ as occasion is offered this God promised and hath made good that he would pour out of his Spirit upon all flesh c. So that the truth holds clear That every spiritual man is a Prophet and that according to the measure of the gift so he may and ought to speak though all are not Prophets viz. able to speak in the Church to edification exhortation and consolation yet all are Prophets and may speak occasionally to edification though not in the Church Some of the grounds you pretend to answer As that these Prophets were such as needed direction from the Apostles c. therefore not extraordinary You pretend to answer this first Because there were extraordinary tongues and the Apostle directs them and why not direct extraordinary Prophets too Answ 1. If by ordinary and extraordinary you mean the one common to all the other more then ordinary so not common to all that I alwayes have granted and shall as in the case of prophesying So of tongues All have the Spirit of Christ that is ordinary to all If any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his Rom. 8. 9. yet all have not the gift of prophesie to speak in the Church as before So in those tongues there was that speech of the things of God that was ordinary to all and that of tongues which was proper to but some as Prophesie yet not so extraordinary as to be either 1. infallible therefore needed direction or 2. passing for the Apostle spake with tongues more then they all And secondly that this of tongues was not such an extraordinary business as you pretend is clear and that first from the Apostles disswading them from it as you may see at large in the Chapter and that from the unprofitableness of it both to the Church and to the world too ver 2 3. and 23 24. 2. He saith ver 5. Greater is he that prophesieth then he that speaketh with tongues and the reason is rendred because he that prophesieth edifieth the Church c. You say there is yet one reason more page 87. Praying
and Prophesying are put together 1 Cor. 11. 5. Was it extraordinary praying too You answer You will put in that too for his Learning 1 Cor. 14. 14 15. If I pray in an unknown Tongue c. Is not here extraordinary praying Doth the Scripture call it extraordinary anywhere and may we not say truly as the Apostle saith of Prophesie greater is he that prophecieth then he that speaketh with tongues and the reason is because he speaketh to edification so say I greater was and is he that prayeth in a known tongue then he that prayeth in an unknown tongue and the Apostle upon the same account disswades them as well from praying or praising in an unknown tongue as from speaking in an unknown tongue and if that prayer had been extraordinary surely he would not have perswaded them from it for I think that prayer is most extraordinary that is most prevailing with God and that is the prayer of Faith not of an unknown tongue You now come to give your Reasons why this Prophesie is extraordinary 1. Because it is joyned with extraordinary gifts 1 Cor. 14. viz. The gift of Tongues Ans 1. Those gifts as hath been already shewed were not so extraordinary as you pretend For greater was be that prophesied then he that spake with tongues But 2. Were what you say truth that that Prophesy in this Chapter were intermixed with extraordinary gifts as that of tongues for which you say its unlikely that Prophesy should be ordinary I say were what you say in the first place truth yet the second doth not follow For in Scripture its ordinary to place or intermix those gifts or offices which you call ordinary and extraordinary together And I wonder you had not so much in you as to see it That might have saved you the labour of setting down this Reason See 1. Cor 12 29. Are all Apostles are all Prophets are all Teachers are all Workers of Miracles c You affirm Apostles Prophets Miracles are extraordinary and Teachers placed in the midst to be ordinary or by way of ordinary office So Rom 12. v. 6 7 8. v. 6. he speaks of Prophesy You say that it is extraordinary yet it s joyned in with that you call ordinary Teaching and exhortation v. 7 8. you parallel with it for your proof Ephes 4. 11. which Scripture makes as much against you as any I know when rightly understood For 1. these are not extraordinary offices as is discoursed at large in the Pulpit-Guard Routed But the ordinary standing gifts and offices in the Church of Christ And Secondly if otherwise upon your own account Apostles Prophets Evangelists which you say are extraordinary are reckoned up with Pastors and Teachers which you say are ordinary and continuing offices in the Church of Christ And 3. I wonder how you dare to divide and with Tho. Hall to pick out what you please and to call one ordinary and another extraordinary when the Scripture presents them all as standing in the Church upon the same account gifts given forth by the Spirit from Christ to the Church And you would take some and leave others so rob the Church of Christ of those gifts orders Priviledges and Officers that Christ hath given to it but no wonder for you own neither Church Ordinances Gifts or Officers according to the mind of Christ but what you have received by Tradition from Antichrist You say that he sayth Apostles are not extraordinary and as for Evangelists he hath nothing to say of them c. Truly had you not been blind or forgetfull there is enough said of them It seems I must say it again Pag. 70. An Evangelist is not an extraordinary but an ordinary work a cryer or publisher of glad tydings which is proper to all the servants of the Lord that preach glad tydings to men and as for Apostles they are not extraordinary but ordinary I say it again and I wonder you durst to oppose so clear a truth those who are sent of God to preach the Gospel for converting souls and gathering Churches are Apostles viz. sent ones and the Twelve Apostles did not take their denomination from their extraordinary gifts of the Spirit but from their mission from Christ to do his work so that notwithstanding none are so sent as those Apostles were 1. immediately or by an immediate mission from his own mouth 2. So immediately inspired and abilitated from above nor 3. to do the same work in every particular though the same in substance viz. to be the first Planters of the Gospel to establish it by signs and miracles c. Yet there is the same in truth and men sent for the gathering of Churches are as truly Apostles as they were as the sons of God are as truly the sons of God as Christ himself though not filled with the same fullness And that you may see there were more Apostles then those Christ was the great Apostle Heb. 3. 1. and he sent the Twelve and other Apostles it s more then probable there were Rom. 16. 7. the Scripture saith that Andronicus and Junias were of note among the Apostles 1. It s probable that they were Apostles c. else how should they be of note or reckoned among them 2. That there were Apostles there and it could not be of the Twelve For Paul was the only Apostle to the Gentiles and the others of the Circumcision they were of note among the Apostles of or belonging to the Church in Rome But Secondly It s apparent that there are or shall be both Apostles and Prophets at the Fall of Babylon which work I believe is now begun and the Lord hath his sent ones abroad in the World in and by whom he will effect his work who shall rejoyce in the fall of Babylon Rev. 18. 20. Rejoyce over her ye holy Apostles and Prophets for God hath avenged you on her So that notwithstanding all your scuffling shifts you make to help your self and to keep up your honour with the people yet know that God is truth and every man that opposeth him shall be found a lyar and that he hath left these ordinary standing gifts and offices in his Church Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors Teachers c. And whereas you say that I argue against it p. 70. that those scattered brethren Act. 8. were not Apostles though sent to gather Saints c. That I say is as a blind man may understand that they were none of the twelve Apostles for they tarried at Jerusalem in answer to Tho. Halls assertion that they might be Apostles whereas it is said that the Apostles tarried at Jerusalem but that they were Apostles viz. sent forth by the Lord not in a common way though not of the twelve Apostles The second Reason Because this word Prophet hath been alwayes used to signifie a person extraordinarily inspired of God when taken in a good sense c. Ans 1. Because Prophets were ordinarily taken in this sense
it is of God not a wolf but a sheep not a false but a true Prophet speaking to edification exhortation and consolation they may with comfort hear and approve the speaking of such in the Church Your fourth Argument is If to appoint to the office of a Minister and the work of a Minister be all one then no man is appointed to the work of a Minister but he that is appointed to the office But to appoint to the office of a Minister and the work of a Minister be all one Ergo. Ans Your Minor is denied A man may be appointed to the work of a Minister yet never be appointed to the office For 1. Richard Sanders himself in his own practise shall confute this Logick for he saith That he Preached a long time before he was Ordained c. but he mends the matter It was in order to the Ministry But in case Richard Sanders had died before he had been ordained then Preaching and the Office of the Ministry had not been one there had been a great deal of Preaching without Office So that in this your practise you contradict your reason and you allowed your self in the thing which you condemn 2. Were these Act. 8. 4. appointed to the office they did the work but the office you read not of And those 1 Pet. 4. 10 11. they were commanded to the work but not to the office for then every one must have been officers c. 3. You have given your Argument but never a Scripture to confirm it but you endeavour to confirm one Reason by another without Scripture Take heed Richard of outing Scripture with your Reason be content to fall down under the power of truth let God be true and all fleshes wisdom so far as it opposeth God be a lye You now come to his 7. Error That Humane Learning is no way necessary to the Ministry of the Gospel and that I affirm p. 38. 39. 41. Pulpit-Guard Routed that the power of the Spirit of Christ in Saints is sufficiently able to make them to divide the word aright and to convince gain-sayers And dare you deny this Truth Is not the Spirit of Christ sufficient dare you derogate from the Holy Spirit and do you find any other Ministery or Teacher then the Spirit in the Scripture 1 Cor. 12. Joh. 14. 26. 16. 7 8. But you seem to help this again you deny not the ability of the Spirit but you question the will or if he please to do it I think that needs not be the Question but rather whether you are in the Scripture directed to any other way for the attaining of the minde of God then the Spirit and the Scripture but you question pag. 126. Whether the main and principle Doctrine of the Scriptures be so plainly laid down as that a Christian may attain unto the knowledge of the same without humane Learning you grant that if he have a Translation he may and have not we a Translation in English and is it not true but false then the Translators have done wrong but is it not true in the substance is there any material fundamental mistake if not then an English man in the English Translation may understand the minde of God as much and more if he have a greater measure of the Spirit then an Hebritian and Grecian can understand in those Languages 2. I answer that I do not quarrell against Tongues but at the abuse of them to make an Idol of them I know you may come to the knowledge of the Letter of Scripture in an ordinary way more fully with it then without it but it is the abuse of it that I quarrel at because you set it up in the room of the Spirit as if none could understand Scripture but those that have Tongues then the Faith of all others must be an implicite Faith built upon the credit of men which would prove very weak in the end 3. It s the use of Philosophy in the things of God as some of you affirm that there is a necessity of studying Arts Sciences Logick Rhetorick c. to make them Ministers as Tho. Halls Pulpit Guard make use of your tongues bring forth the truth of the Original to the people help those that want it and make not an Idol of it c. You proceed to produce some Scriptures A good account of which cannot be given without the help of humane Learning Answ In this you shew so much weakness that I would not say a word unto it were it not for one or two of them and I shall say but a word or two 1. Is there any thing material in any of these Scriptures Put case a man knew not the Emphasis of the Original as Rich. Sanders cals it Is any thing laid open by him material or 2. if so it s that which may be easily attained But to the Scriptures the first is Apostolos and what if a man never knew that it signifies Sent why might he not understand as much as your self in it for every man that knows any thing knows that the twelve Apostles and Paul were Apostles and you know no more you do not know that all that are sent of Jesus Christ are Apostles viz. Sent. The second Scripture of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Rock you seem to give a learned interpretation as if Christ intended to build his Church upon Peter so much is clearly hinted in what you say I trace you no farther in this I leave the weight of what you say concerning those Scriptures to the Reader because I am in haste As to that you say concerning Ghost I perceive you know well what the word is in the Greek and what if it were alwayes so translated in English and I think it is one of the greatest wrongs to our English translation the mispronouncing of words in pronouncing Hebrew and Greek instead of English Messias from Mesha instead of Anointed Emmanuel instead of God with us In Greek Christ from Christos instead of anointed Jesus instead of Saviour Apostle instead of Sent Baptize instead of Dip or Wash c. and Ghost instead of Spirit though that 's no Greek word Why do you not reform these things with your learning unless it be done on purpose to keep people in ignorance But you have something farther to say it seems and that very learnedly page 134. and you have much to say to this particular That there is not any Scripture understood by spiritual Christians the grammatical sense of which a man that hath not the Spirit of Christ may attain unto and page 135. That Scripture is sufficient to discover its own sense to all men diligently improving the outward helps afforded by God and that if it be the Spirits work to discover the sense and meaning of Scripture then the Spirits work is to make Notionists c. Answ And is this your spiritualness indeed That a natural man without the Spirit may understand the mind
of God for if he understand the sense and meaning of the Scripture then he understands the mind of God and this is contrary to the Scripture For the natural man doth not understand the things that are of God neither can he understand them 1 Cor. 2. 14 But we have the mind of Christ 2. If this be truth that you affirm then what is the reason that you with all your humane Learning do not yet understand the sense and meaning of the Scripture and that first in common and ordinary things as that the Covenant made with Abraham and Moses c. is not the same as the Gospel-Covenant when the Scripture saith plainly that it is not the same but another Covenant not such a Covenant as the first was but established upon better promises c. What is the reason that you do not understand that Command of Christ that it is Believers that are to be baptized and not Infants and that you understand not that when Christ saith That upon this Rock will I build my Church he means not Peter but the Rock of Peters confession viz. Christ Jesus who is so often in Scripture called The Rock or foundation stone of Sion but Pope-like think it s meant of Peter And are there not many Prophesies and much of the Revelation which is yet a sealed mysterie to you and John saith expresly Rev. 5. that the Scripture viz Christ the mysterie of God in Scripture is a sealed book that none could open it but the Lion of the Tribe of Judah Yet you say that a natural man can do it I leave it to the Reader to judge of the truth of this And 3. Whereas you say if the Spirits work be to teach men the sense of Scripture it is to make them Notionists I answer first then upon your own account your humane Learning doth but make you Notionists for you say that helps you to the knowledge of the sense of Scripture It s no wonder then that you are so far from the power of truth for you confess that with all your learning you are but Notionists at the best and truly you are but bad Notionists neither for there is much of the sense of Scripture that you are not acquainted withall You say Knowledge puffeth up Answ True fleshly knowledge such as you are pleading for but not the true saving knowledge of the Spirit of Christ for the Scripture saith expresly That without knowledge the heart cannot be good and for want of knowledge the people perish And that its life eternal to know God and Jesus Christ whom he hath sent and the more a soul knows of God and Christ of God in Christ the more he comes to abbor himself Isa 6. Act. 9. And whereas you are so much upon this That the Scripture expressions are plain and express their own meaning page 137. Else they cannot be a perfect rule and if men must understand them by or in the light or teaching of the Spirit what were this but to make the Scripture a nose of Wax as the Papists do plyable to any sense c. Answ 1. It s true the Scripture expressions are plain and express their own meaning yet not so plain as you pretend that every one may attain the sense of them for you confess that there is need of means and help to understand them Then I querie which is the likeliest means to help us to understand the meaning of the Scripture in comparing Scripture with Scripture the Spirit of Christ or humane Learning Who best knows the meaning of the Scripture that Spirit by which it was given or that humane spirit so much pleaded for that never did nor never shall know the Lord 2. The Scriptures are no perfect rule to ignorant and carnal men or hypocrites it s a perfect rule only to such who by them know the Lord and his mind by the teachings of the Spirit and so walk according to it for if it be a perfect rule then it s so to those who know it You say a naturall man may know it then a naturall man may have a perfect rule and if he walk according to it he must be saved for who so walks by a perfect rule and answers it in his walking must be justified by that rule Now the Scripture is no perfect rule of justification of life to any but the Saints not that there is imperfection in the Scripture but none comes truly to know it but those who are taught from above 3. To say that the knowledge of the mind of God in Scripture by the teachings of the Spirit is to make it a nose of Wax c. is a fond imagination For first though its true upon this account men that have not the Spirit of God may abuse it thinking they have the Spirit of Christ when they have it not Yet 2. The Spirit is truth and is at unity in and with it self and speaks but one thing I mean he doth not contradict himself though there are contradictions amongst the Saints yet it is not from the Spirit who dwels in unity but from the worldly spirit not yet subdued in them and I thought you had known at least the Scripture Zeph. 3. 9. that saith God will turn to his people a pure language that they may serve him with one consent it s not the work of fleshes wisdom but I will do it saith the Lord and how think you if not in helping them to know his mind c. And 2. Doth not your humane wisdom indeed make a nose of wax of the Scripture do you not wrest iâ— and turn it which way you please and is it not for want of the clear teachings of the Spirit there are such rentings and divisions amongst us at this day Is it not about the sense of the Scriptures all the differences in the world are at this day And do you seek to God to guide you into a oneness in the understanding of the meaning of it or to your humane Learning Oh be ashamed for ever so much to undervalue Scripture and overvalue mans wisdom as that its sufficient to find out the meaning of the Scriptures When you have joyned up all together yet notwithstanding all your Learning yea and the Spirits teaching too you have not yet attained to all the sense of the Scriptures if you had there would not be division but unity not that I question the sufficiency of the Spirits teaching in its own time but certainly you are very much to blame having gotten that which is able to teach you the sense and meaning of the Scripture with your own endeavour yet to know so little of it as you do you must needs be very sluggards or else able to resolve infallibly any place of Scripture you having that which is able as you say to help you to understand it and you think you have the Spirit of Christ besides these two being by you joyned up together in you
the least of which is able to help you to the infallible sense c. What then hinders that you are not infallible and yet that you are not infallible is clear for what need a difference then between Papist and Protestant yet both Learned between Episcopacie and Presbyterie yet both Learned Presbyterie and Independency yet both Learned Independency and the Baptists yet some of both Learned between them all and those that deny both Church and Ordinances yet some of them Learned too Oh be ashamed for ever of these Fopperies and let all who know the Lord look to him for the teachings of the Spirit that so we may come to know his minde and will that so we may worship him with one shoulder and let all that love the Lord Jesus say Amen This shall suffice at present as an answer to what you say of your humanity I deny not the use of means but the abuse of it I leave it to the Reader to judge You come to the 8. Error That the Ministry of England is Antichristian Answ This is a dangerous one with you it seems but because I have said so much to this in the Pulpit Guard Routed I shall wholly wave it in this place seaving both Tho. Halls assertions my answers to him and yours again to mine to the judgment of the Reader a word to the wise is enough it s a word that you cannot yet well bear therefore I shall at present forbear only give me leave to minde you with two words 1. You answer but one of my six Arguments to prove them Antichristian the rest you pass by as if the naming of them as Tho. Hall said in contempt were answer enough to them if it be I leave it to the Reader I am satisfied 2. In that which you pretend to answer what do you more or less then say the same that I have said You confess 1. It came from Rome but you think to mend it with this because the Scriptures came from Rome but if by the hand of Gods grace the Scripture was kept pure in Rome and not defiled then the case is altered but they were so kept Ergo that it is so I prove If the Scriptures preserved by the Romans have sufficient in them to overturn the very practise and Religion of the Romans then they had not a power to corrupt it for their own ends But the Scriptures preserved by the Romans have sufficient in them to overturn all the Religion of the Romans viz. Papists Ergo. The Minor I prove Those who use to corrupt Scripture do it for their own ends and interests but the Papists have not corrupted it for their own ends and interests Ergo. I mean in the Hebrew and Greek which I suppose must necessarily be that which you intend for you say the Scriptures as well as Ordination was very much corrupted by the Papists p. 169. but among us hath been restored by degrees now our Work hath not been to restore the Popish Translators but to Translate out of the Greek and Hebrew Copies which I do not believe were or are materially or substantially corrupted so that by this you teach the People to deny the Scripture and at best to take it upon the account of man reducing it from corruption I must tell you if the Collier had written as much as black as you make him he must have expected to have had all the black-Coats in the Nation about his ears and that justly too So that the Case is altered now the Scripture in its essence was kept pure but the very essence of Ordination was Antichristian and how you could bring a clean thing out of an unclean I leave to the Reader to judge As to the Argument you confess the truth of it that the Calling came from Rome but you restore it by degrees Now which is better to come to the Scripture for Ordination Ordinances c. or to retain that which is Antichristian I leave to the Reader to judge as for Austin the Monk you confess what I say only you think you mend the matter in saying that Monks were not so bad then as now and that Rome was a true Church then the truth of this I leave to the judgement of the wise these things considered 1. When Austin came into England here was some that owned Christ as History relates for as you say the Gospel had been preached in England before both by Joseph of Arimathea and afterward Lucius King of the Britains desiring it not Elutherius as you affirm but Fugatius and Damianus being sent by Elutherius Pope or Bishop of Rome they Preached and Baptized in England that King being the first King that History mentions that was Baptized in England but when Austin came those Bishops you mention with the People because they would not submit to the pride of Austin were by him persecuted and brought to ruine by this you may judge a little of the truth of Romes being a true Church and Austin a true Minister 2. Whereas you say You hope Rome was then a true Church I say you have but little ground for it for I do not believe that ever Rome was a true Church My Reason is because I do judge that never a Nation Province or City was a true Gospel-Church its true there was once a true Church in Rome but the Scripture never calls Rome a Church for a true Church of Christ are a People gathered out of the world by the power of the Gospel to believing in Christ and professed obedience to him but this was never any Nation Province or City therefore no true Church of Christ Rev. 5. 9 but such Churches were at first and so it hath hitherto continued gathered by the authority of the Civil Magistrate compelling all to come in or else they must not live under their Authority fulfilling in a measure Rev. 13. 17. by which means the true Church in Rome and all other true Churches in Relation to Form Order and Worship have been extinguished so that I say Rome was never a true Church since it became a Church nor any Nation in the World besides its inconsistent with the true Church of Christ who are a People gathered out of Nations as before c. But to draw to a conclusion The other five Arguments you pass over as having no weight in them c. I leave it to the Reader to judge if there be no weight in them I say no more only aword to your Postscript You say There is another dangerous pestilent blasphemous Book of this Colliers against Ordinances c. which you heard of but never saw it Answ I suppose you did but dream a second time and this proves false too give off dreaming or lying for shame for I suppose none dare lye so grosly as to tell you so though you dare dream a lye and publish it but there is a hand of God in it that the world may know what you are My Books are not in private if there were any such it might be gotten assuredly let this satisfie I do declare that I never writ any such Book and if any have done or do gather from any passage that I deny Ordinances though I know no passage in any from whence any can draw such a positive conclusion I do affirm that I never writ any thing in which I denyed the Ordinances of Jesus Christ and it is my judgement and practise to walk in the use of them Thus at present have I done leaving the Premises to the publick view and censure of those to whom it comes desiring the Lord to give understanding c. FINIS