but they that come to witness a part in Christ Jesus the Light of Life they in his Light may come to perceive the Mystestery of the Resurrection but if Truth can be received and understood then it will appear that I do not deny the Resurrection for I do verily believe that the Hour is coming in which all that are in the Graves shall bear the voice of the Son of God and shall come forth they that have done good unto the Resurrection of Life and they that have done evil unto the Resurrection of Condemnation but to Fools that say that this Body of natural Flesh and Bones shall be raised I say that body which is sown is not that body that shall be but God giveth a body as it pleaseth him yet to every Seed it s own body Thus far G. F. junior by all which T. D. his slander is detected and his false spirit discovered as not fit to meddle with the Mysteries of God which are out of his sight and reach God will sweep away the refuge of Lyes and Lyars Some Observations upon John Owen's Book Entituled A Declaration c. including a brief Answer and Reply to the same AS We the People of God called Quakers are but little concerned in John Owen's Declaration we need concern our selves the less and let them that are chiefly concerned in his Accusations make him answer But in that he hath in some few places hinted and falsly insinuated against us as being one with the Socinians as he calls them or seduced into Socinianism Lest any should give credit to these and such like insinuations and thereby be prejudiced against us or the Truth professed by us meerly upon John Owen's overly Reports I judge it meet a little to appear in Truth 's Vindication and our clearness in answer to some particulars in his Book As first where in his Preface Pag. 6. he saith There is now a visible accession made by that sort of People whom men will call Quakers from their department from the first erection of their Way long since desertted by them Answ. We have not made any accession contrary to the Truth first received by us nor have we deserted its Way which so long since the Lord God by his Power gathered us into out of the corrupt Wayes Inventions Traditions and false Worships of the World to worship him in the Spirit and in the Truth wherein we have been gathered to be a peculiar people to God being delivered from the many Sects Wayes and Professions set up since the dayes of the Apostles AS to Socinianism as he calls it we are neither Discipled in it nor Baptized into Socinus his name neither do we own him for our Author or Patern in those things which we Believe and Testifie nor yet do we own several Principles which John Owen relates as being from Socinus and principally that of Christ's being God but not the Most High God pag. 54 55. It was never our Principle for though we do confess to his condescention humility and Suffering in the dayes of his Flesh wherein he appeared in the form of a Servant being made in fashion as a man but his being in the form of God in the Divine Nature of God wherein he was equal with God and being glorified with the same glory he had with the Father before the World began and his being God over all blessed for ever these things we professed and believed in the beginning and do the same still it never being in our hearts in the least to oppose or desert them therefore as to the Conjunction J. O. â—ell of betwixt both these sorts of men in opposition to the holy Trinity with the Person and Grace of Christ. Herein he hath charged a double falshood upon us first such a Conjunction and Opposition either to the Person or Grace of Christ which we absolutely deny neither is our opposing of mens corrupt meanings of Scripture and invented names and terms put upon the Deity any opposition either against God Christ or Spirit nor yet against the Grace or Love of either J. O. Pag. 6. However they may seem in sundry things as yet to look divers wayes yet like Sampson 's Foxes they are knit together by the tayl in these firebrand Opinions and joyntly endeavour to consume the standing Corn of the Church of God and their joynt management of their business of late c. Answ. I suppose he intends Quakers and Socinians wherein both his Accusation and Comparison are false and scornfull for there 's no such conjunction nor joynt endeavours between them neither ever was it the Quakers intent or principle in the least to endeavour to consume the standing Corn of God's Church as we injuriously are accused but such vain and false imaginations corruptions and perverting Scripture as J. O. and his Brethren are guilty of which have no growth nor reception in the Church of God for his Church is in him and led by his Spirit into all Truth which no Lye nor Deceit have any part in Besides as for Sampson's Foxes they were not set to destroy the Corn of the Church or Israel but of the Philistines neither can we believe that the Presbyterians and Independants are the true Church till we see better Fruit appear among them then is yet for look into their Assemblies and see what pride and vanity they are gotten into in their apparel behold also how gaudy in their habits their women are and what an example of pride and pomp they shew to the profane to the shame of their profession certainly God hath yet Viols of Wrath unemptied to pour down upon that proud and persecuting Spirit which hath so much shewed it self in many of them But what he means by those words holy Trinity he further explains in pag. 26 27. in these words viz. Now the sum of the Revelation in these terms is that God is one that this one God is Father Son and Holy Ghost that the Father is the Father of the Son and the Son the Son of the Father and the Holy Ghost the Spirt of the Father and and the Son Now had this Doctor Owen and his Brethren but kept to these and such like expressions and have left out their unscriptural scholastick terms and distinctions about Trinity distinct Subsistances and Personalities we should not need to have had such controversies with any of them about them but have taken their confession that God is one and that Father Son and holy Ghost are God and that the Father is Father of the Son and the Son the Son of the Father c. according to this great Doctors Relation who pretends very much to Scripture and makes many large Repetitions of Scripture to prove his matter counting them the Revelation but then being again not willing to keep to the terms expressions and phrases of Scripture but writes his own conceivings sences and meanings as men of his Coat and Fraternity use to do
to shew his Death till he came c. However T. D. construes this it doth not prove the figurative or outward part or sign to be imposed as of absolute necessity upon all Believers till some other coming of Christ not yet come for his coming in the Spirit T. D. owns not to be the end thereof but where then is the mystery and inward and Spiritual Grace signified by the outward Sign so much talked of in your Catechisms but its evident T. D. is ignorant of the Mystery of the Body and Blood of Christ and Cup of the new Testament in his Blood which the outward Bread and Cup was but the sign and figure of we oppose the Popish opinion of Transubstantiation And however as to the Corinthians at that time among them there was strife and division contention and disorder one being hungry another drunk another asleep one being of Paul another of Apollo another of Cephas which the Apostle reproved therein as being carnal walking as men so that he could not speak unto them as unto Spiritual but as unto Carnal 1 Cor. 3.11 16 17 18 20 21 30. Now suposing that wherein the Apostle might or did condescend to their low capacity as not grown to that Spirituallity so as to see through the outward Shaddows this their Example was not to be a President not could it in Reason or Truth be enjoyned to all other that succeeded who were come truly to know the glory of Christ's appearance in Spirit and Spiritually to enjoy the Communion of the body and Blood of Christ where none of these disorders aforesaid have any place Now Paul in his second Epistle to the Corinthians Chap. 13.15 bids them examine and prove themselves saying Know ye not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you except you are Reprobates So here was the Bread he then referred them to which indeed was always the intent and end of his Labour and Travel to bring those that were weak to a Living and Spiritual sence even of this Spiritual Bread however because of their weakness and low capacity he might condescend unto them as in some things he did And whereas T. D. pleading for his Ordinances as before saith Pag. 72. They do not cease as to our need of them because it is not to be supposed consistant with Christ's Wisdom to continue an obligation upon us to the use of a means when the end is obtained viz the appearance of Christ within that is a full appearance or state of Perfection saith he but we having proved that there is no such state attainable in this life then if those Ordinances oblige till we be arrived at perfection they oblige and so are of use during term of life Answ. Where observe first however he hath granted that they are not obliging where the end is attained or not continued by Christ as an obligation where this his appearance is Witnessed which brings to a state of Perfection Secondly T. D. having not proved that such a state is not attainable on this side the Grave but the contrary being proved before against him and all his Brethrens sinfull Pleas Doctrines and Arguments for Sin and Imperfection in this life therefore this Spiritual appearance of Christ brings man beyond all mens Traditions and outward Ordinances so called and indeed who do know a beginning in the Spirit ought to wait for this Spiritual Appearance and Coming of Christ according to the Spirit 's direction which is most perfect and not to turn back again into the Types Shaddows and Figures nor into the weak and beggerly Elements of the World nor yet subject themselves to mens Traditions carnal Commandments imposed Doctrines and Preceps but to wait upon God in Spirit to serve and worship him in the newness of the Spirit that thereby they may know the Spiritual Washing the Baptism into Christ's Death and be Baptized by the one Spirit into one Body and so come into the House of God and to feed at his Table and partake of the Living Bread which comes down from Heaven and to drink of the Fruit of the Vine with Christ in his Fathers Kingdom which Kingdom he promised to his Disciples should come with Power even in their Age or before some of them that stood by should taste of death Mark 9.1 Luke 9.27 And as for T. D's saying The Apostle calls the Doctrine of Baptism a Foundation these are not the Apostles words neither did he teach Sprinkling Infants for saith he but leaving the Principles or beginning of the Doctrine of Christ let us go on unto Perfection not laying again the Foundation of Repentance from dead works and of Faith towards Gods and the Doctrine of Baptisms c. Now if Perfection which was the end of those Baptisms was the thing they were to go on unto as he exhorted surely then it was attainable for the Apostles exhortation was in the Faith and did not oppose Perfection as T. D. erroniously hath done but directed and led them forward out off and beyond the Shaddows and Figures unto the Substance and preached to present men perfect in Christ. And whereas T. D. hath charged us yet further with a great Error which is that there is no Resurrection from the Dead and to prove us guilty hereof he mentioneth a Letter of one R. Turner which Letter I have not seen nor do I know the man as also G. W. in his late Answer to William Burnet and G. F. junior in his Books bound up together Answ. How apparently T. D. hath belyed slandered and abused us in accusing so positively that we hold there is no Resurrection from the Dead is evident in many printed Books of ours and he hath neither mentioned my words nor G. F's I say his slander and false accusation herein against me in particular may be plainly detected out of that very Book of my own wherein Pag. 67. I have expressed these very words But the Resurrection according to the Scriptures of Truth and Testimonies of Christ and the Apostles we do believe and own as Recorded in John 5.21 24 25 28 29. and Chap. 11.25 Matth. 22.30 31 32. 1 Cor. 15.34 35 36 37 38. and so on 2 Cor. 5.1 Many other places might be cited These very words and Scriptures are thus set down in my Answer to William Burnet after which are some passages of a Dispute I had upon the same subject with that busie yet sorry Contender Matthew Caffin the Baptist whose impertinencies and ignorance at the Dispute was fully manifested as others of his Brethrens have been when they have appeared in the same unprofitable work against us And as concerning what G. F. the younger saith in his Books collected clears him also from T. Danson's impudent slander of holding there is no Resurrection from the Dead for G. F. affirmeth the contrary in pag. 209 210. in these very words Touching the Resurrection it s a Mystery which the carnal mind can never comprehend
then sayes suppose as a subsistent or Person c. But which of these terms it is this Notionist hath not declared to us in his 13th page And this Notionist goes on in the said 13th page and sayes Nor can we say that the Notion of the Father as one Person in the God-head includes the Son nor the Notion of the Son as one Person in the God-head includes the Father Reader Didst thou ever hear the like This is but a Notion of the Father and a Notion of the Son indeed And are these Presbyterian Priests like to interpret Scripture with their Notions Conceptions and Suppositions no no. No one knows the Father but the Son and he to whom the Son reveals him Nor none knows the Son but the Father and to know God and Jesus Christ is Life Eternal and none can call him Lord but by the Holy Ghost And so this Knowledge is beyond all your false Conceptions Suppositions and Notions And if the Holy Ghost the Saints bodies be the Temple of it which Holy Ghost leads them into all Truth And if the Holy Ghost be a Person then have not the Saints a Person in their bodies And why did not the Apostle say That their bodies were the Temples of a Person according to your Doctrine and Rule the Holy Ghost is a Spirit and so let us see that Scripture which gives the Holy Ghost the Name of a Person And he speaks again in his 14th page of Three distinct Persons are one with the God-head Now Reader is not here Four to wit Three Persons and the God-head But Reader we charge him to give us Chapter and Verse for this Doctrine for we must order him with the Rule And then he tells us of a Notion of the Father and including the Son it 's but his own Notion for if he had known him he would have spoken in a form of sound words whereby he might not have been reproved And again the Presbyterian sayes the Three Persons are distinct and the Rule is to be understood that they are One among themselves only in respect of that wherein they agree not simply Answ. Reader take notice he sayes The Father and Son and Holy Ghost which he calls Three Persons doth not agree simply Is not this contrary to Scripture What agreement is this which is not simply What! separate distinct Persons not agreeing simply Come what is this agreement then if it be not an agreeing simply Tell us what it is by Chapter and Verse thou sayes the Scripture is the Rule Where doth the Scripture say That the Father Son and Spirit doth not agree simply Didst thou not say That God was so simple that he admitted of no parts what agreement is this if it be not simple What is it then tell us Dost thou not abuse the Father Son and Spirit and Scriptures clear thy self and make this good That the Father Son and Spirit doth not agree simply if not simply then tell us how and give Chapter and Verse for it out of the Scriptures or else acknowledge thy self to be of a Sandy Foundation Seeing thou sayst A Man is a Person and God is a Person and the Scripture saith God is a Spirit and Christ was conceived by the Holy Ghost the begotten of the Father Was Christ the Image of the Father as he was of the Generation of Abraham or David or Adam or according to the Spirit Whether of these was he the express Image of his Father's substance because thou calls the Father a Person And the Scripture sayeth He suffered according to the Flesh which he did not die as he was God and the Scripture calls him Son of Man and Son of God and he being the express Image of his Fathers substance see the Old Translations And dost thou not in thy 16th page of thy Synopsis bring the Greek Philosophers to prove the Persons Yes How now Presbyterian Priest thou hast run beside thy own Directory and Scripture both but the Greek Philosophers must be thy Rule and Leader surely People will not alwayes have their Eyes blinded by you Christ is come to open them And in the 17th page of his Book the Presbyterian saith that Hypostasis must be rendred Person or Subsistent or some word to that Effect he sayes So People see it must be some word but what it must be he knows not and so in this manner they are giving Names to Christ and God besides the Rule of Scripture we charge thee shew us a Verse in Scripture that speak such Language and where one word may be put for another by Metalepsis and so leave People in Doubts and Questions you are going beside your Scripture and Rule that at last People shall not know what to call God and Christ. So the Presbyterians and Independants must give us Scripture For we will not be satisfied with your Notions and Whymsies and false Conceptions which you have from Aristotle and the Greek Philosophers and the Papists and Cardinals We do command you to give us Scripture Chapter and Verse Presbyterians and Independants for these things plainly seeing you are of late perked up in a way of scolding against us not like the Holy Men of God Patient and Meek and apt to Teach as you may see in the latter end of your Brother Vincent's Book Is that the Language of a Christian No He hath declared what spirit you are of Rabshecha's spirit railing and speaking evil of the way of Truth he thinks to overcome by Railing and complaining not by Love nay the Lamb must have the victory Whether or no was Christ's Blood shed for All men and by it Justifies All men they living in their sins and not believing in it are they saved by their saying they believe in the Blood and not believing in the Light which Christ Commands and become Children of the Light and they say they believe and yet not pass from Death to Life and from sin that brings Death And whether or no any are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Christ but such as walk in the Light of Christ as in 1 Joh. 1. And so whether or no are those Justified who believe not in the Light of Christ nor passes from Death to Life nor walks not in the Light whether or no are those Justified by Christ's Blood and have not the Testimony of Justification in them as in the accompt to God Christ's Blood was shed for All men but for a man to come to partake of this Justification is it not to feel the Blood sprinkling the Heart and Conscience For the outward Jewes in the Figure had Blood sprinkled upon them in the outward Offerings Come answer us by Scripture Do not daub up People with untempered Mortar do you know the Mortar that is tempered Whether or no was Christ an Offering for the sins of the whole World and died for the sins of the whole World Whether or no all the sinners and ungodly of the whole World
are Justified by his Death and by his offering up once for all answer in plain words And whether or no you will make a Sect that he died for some ungodly and some sinners only for the sons of Adam were the sinners and ungodly But he that believes is born of God and they receive Christ and he gives them Power to become the sons of God and they know he died for them and have the Testimony of it and have the Benefit of his Death and Resurrection And what was the Light that shined in the Darkness and the Darkness comprehended it not What was the Spirit that the Wicked grieved vexed and quenched Where is it and what is the Spirit of Truth that reproves the World of sin Where is it that leads the Saints into all Truth Come we must have plain Scripture for these things What is the Law that God will write in the Heart and put in the Mind that all shall know Him from the greatest to the least that they shall not every one teach his Brother and shall all know the Lord What is that Light that shines in the Heart to give the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus 2 Cor. 4. What is the Word of God in the Heart the Apostle Preached and the People was to obey it and do it And what was that Rule that Adam had and all the Holy Men in the Old World And what was the Rule of Enoch's Faith by which he was translated And Abraham's Faith who obeyed God and forsook his Countrey Answer these things by Scripture because you say The Writings the Scriptures are the Rule of Faith And Presbyterians and Independants have you forgotten all your Petitions and Addresses you Petitioned and made to the other Powers against the Quakers If you have forgotten them read William Caton 's Book of your Petitions and Addresses gathered up and down the Nation What you said of Oliver and Richard and how the People of God in scorn called Quakers the first beginning of calling them so was at Darby by one Bennet an Independant about 19 year since and then when the People called Quakers were gathered together in divers places to Worship God then you said they were Plotting together against Oliver whom some of you called the Light of your Eyes and breath of your Nostrils to bring in King Charles and Oliver said We would not hurt a Mouse at that time though he did cast many of us in Prison through you after that and then you Baptized us in your Prisons by cruel sufferings Of all men you should hold your Tongues in bawling so against us seeing the Light of your Eyes and breath of your Nostrils is gone And what was it not through some of you That the Act against Sturdy Beggars came forth upon which Friends at that time could hardly travel three or four miles from their own Houses but they were Whipped men worth three or four-score pounds or an hundred a year were Whipped for Beggars and Vagrants And then did you not get another Act That we must not speak to you in going or coming from a Steeple-house And how Friends were thronged in Prison up and down in the Nation by you Answer these Queries And thus you may see what a Havock you made in your Day but when Persecution came you durst hardly look out with your heads your selves And was there ever the like known or seen how your Brethren turns from North to South and from South to North and there they can turn and chop and change And yet you could tell us then That the Common-Prayer was Hell and Egyptian Bondage And we could hardly have a Meeting but you were incensing the Rulers against us That we were Plotting to bring in King Charles and how many in those dayes were put in Prison upon that account by you because we went to Meetings We can tell you we have a List of them And yet the Quakers were House Creepers said you when you had gotten the Mass-houses and Tythes and your Easter-Reckonings and Midsummer-Dues and straining our Goods for your Bread and Wine And who are become the House Creepers now Then you had gotten the old Mass-houses Oh! your filthiness comes to be made manifest to all men and you have made your selves ridiculous who are fighting against an innocent People that wishes hurt to no man but the good of all men And do you think that the Lord will nor remember and reckon with you for all these things Dare you look into the Book of your Actions and Consciences and see what is written there and see if they be not Recorded How now Presbyterians High Priests What is this your Doctrine that you now Preach up for your Hearers to go to a Bawdy-house as Thomas Vincent speaks What Liberty here do you give to Youth and your Hearers who sayes It 's worse to go to the Quakers Meetings than to a Bawdy-house You pleaded for a body of sin as long as you live but now it 's com'd out indeed when you plead for a Bawdy-house rather than Quakers Meetings it 's like the Presbyterian Priest knows where they are it appears as if he thought more of a Bawdy-house than of Christ and Vertue So it 's clear here you are Them that turn the People to Vice and from the Lord and his Truth Ellimas like seeking to pervert For the Quakers Meetings are in the Fear and Power and Spirit of God who meet together in the Name of Christ Jesus so it 's like you love Meetings at Bawdy-houses more then the Meetings of the People of God who meet to Worship God And if this be your Doctrine then you must enlarge your Brothel and Bawdy-houses as they do at Rome Legorn and Venice and other parts in Italy and then they will give you Tythes and Easter-Reckonings and Midsummer-Dues For have you not called Bawdy-house People good Church Members And have you not taken Tythes of them And would you not say The Peace of God to them for paying you Tythe Who would have thought that we should have had such Unvertuous Expressions from the Presbyterians that this stinking savour should have lyen covered under their Weeds Well the Quakers must Declare against all your Bawdy-houses which thou Vincent sayes Thou hadst rather thy People should go to than to the Quakers Meetings where the Word of God is Preached And so Presbyterians if this be your Doctrine to your People to send them to Bawdy-houses rather then to send them to a Meeting of the People of God we utterly deny you and your Bawdy-house too And is it not a shame to put in Print to tell the World That thou wouldst rather have thy People go to a Bawdy-house than to a Quakers Meeting For it 's like if thou wilt set up that House thou mayst have a yearly Revenue like thy Father the Pope out of your Bawdy-houses it 's like if you were there you might
named amongst them as becometh Saints Eph. 5. And how corrupt and grosse is T. V's reason for his wicked and unsavoury Doctrine before in saying Because the defilement of the Soul is more deep and more hard to be washed off than the defilement of Whoredom or Adultry As if they did not defile the Soul but the Body only this is a Doctrine that may gratifie Whoremongers and Adulterers and not only to reject the wholsom Warnings and Reproofs against all such Wickedness which both in their own Consciences and in our Meetings is declared and Preached against but also it tends rather to incourage them to go to Bawdy-houses than to our Innocent and Godly Meetings wherein the Truth Righteousness and Power of God which cleanseth and frees from sin and unrighteousness is exalted and born witness to T.V. having so manifestly discovered his Spirit he had now better go and sit down under the Common Prayer and confess himself a miserable Sinner among the rest and not remain in a separation with his whewling and whineing Prayers feigning himself as one more Holy and Humble than they What sober People could have thought that such foulness should lie under these Presbyterians coverings as is mentioned before and after And T. V. further adds to explain his gross corrupt Doctrine these words viz. I told her if there stood a Cup of Poyson in the Window I would rather drink it than drink in their damnable Doctrines because poysoning of the Body is not so bad as poysoning and damning the Soul By which the Reader may further see how his prejudice and envy hath blinded him thus to imply as if Persons might commit either Whordom or Murder upon their Bodies and their Souls not be defiled or damned thereby and then what actual wickedness may not People commit and their Souls not be damnified nor prejudiced by it from this Doctrine whereas the wicked slayeth his own Soul lifteth up his Soul to vanity the Peoples lusting after evil things caused leanness to enter their Souls tribulation and anguish is to come upon every Soul of man that doth evil And it is only the Power and Life of God which purifies the Soul sanctifies the Creature throughout in Body Soul and Spirit and so leads into Righteousness and thereby saves and brings the Soul to God and gives it Life and indues it with the Image of the Heavenly But after this T. V. hath uttered such corrupt Language and Doctrine as before he is so bold as to justifie himself in these words viz. I am sure I neither did nor spake any thing unbecoming a Minister of the Gospel That I refer all modest and sober Readers to judge of Whether T. V. hath spoken Truth herein yea or nay and whether or no it had not been more prudence for him to have studied quietness and quietly to have followed his Devotion with thankfulness for the Liberty they are permitted to enjoy then thus to have shewed himself in outrage with clamorous reproaches and reviling against us who mean him no harm to the great disgrace both of himself and his Religion and them that adher to him therein And as for his accusing me with confused Discourse and indirect Answers to his Arguments and with filling my Mouth and the Peoples Ears with a multitude of words wherein was so much ambiguity and obscurity that the sentiments of my mind were not easily to be perceived as he saith Wherein I have as much cause to complain of not having direct Answers from him as he seems to have against me whilst he was so puzled and put to it with what I said though I answered them in plain Scripture-language And wherein their Questions or pretended Arguments were either indirect or in terms which accorded not with Scripture-language I did not judge my self ingaged so far to admit of the stating their matters as being infallible in the manner and terms of them as to be tyed to Yea or Nay denial of Major or Minor without further scruple Their Arguments appear hereafter And whereas T. V. pleads for using some words in explaining Scripture which are not in the Scripture saying That the Quakers in their Books use many words which are not in the Scripture I Answer We neither contend with words or matters which are not contrary or do not tend to vail or darken the Truth 's or simplicity of the innocent language contained in Scripture neither do we go about to impose one manner and form of expression upon others or limit them therein whilst they speak the Truth or what is in or according to Scripture We are not of Kin to the narrow Spirit of the ridged Presbyters that will count a man a blasphemous Heretick Socinian Arian and what not if he can't repeat his Creed of the Deity or Father Word and Spirit in their invented School-terms although he really believeth and confesseth according to Scripture unto the only true God the eternal Word and Spirit or the Father Son and Holy Spirit and that they are One and in Unity inseparable And whereas T. V. saith That W. P. puts forth the sting of the Serpent in tearming his Prayers strangely affected Whines what more opprobious terms saith he would the Damn-me Blades of the Times have used c. Answ. To which I say That he did not only use a strange affected way of Whineing in his feigned Praying but also therein most falsely accused us for Blasphemers in telling God That we compared Him and his Son and Holy Spirit to three finite Creatures which more justly was charged upon himself and his Brethren from their distinction of Persons in the Deity T. V's lye to God was so apparent in this matter that some that were by said The next time he Prayed he had need to ask God forgiveness for telling him that Lye for our comparison was to evince the natural consequence of their own distinction and the gross tendency of it as further is mainfest and not to represent the infinite God like unto man or finite Creatures as they have done about their Personalities And his comparing W. P's words to such tearms as those use he calls The Dam-me Blades of the Times he should rather have began at home and judged himself for his own wicked opprobious terms in saying It was worse to go to the Quakers Meetings than to a Bawdy-house what more gross terms could the Damners and Sinkers have used but evil words corrupt good manners And as for his Confidence that it is a falshood that they did use such words as impudent villain that there was striking among some of T. V's Hearers There are Persons of repute and credit who can testifie both against them and to my knowledge an honest sober Women did affirm That one of his Hearers thumpt her on the Breast when we were about that Dispute with them besides the malice envy and rudeness that appeared amongst them in clamouring railing and reviling us like the Billings-gate folks though
to and obey is the Light of Christ which witnesseth against all sin against all Idolatry and unrighteousness and leads us in the Doctrine of the true God which we receive in the Light and not mens Traditions and corrupt Doctrines and Inventions whereby People have been kept in the dark by such perverse and prejudiced Spirits as thus blasphemously deem the Light within an Idol of our own brains whereas it is the Light and Life of the Eternal Word which enlightens every man that cometh into the World that we testifie unto against all the dark opposers and gain-sayers whose wayes are dark and crooked as thine W. M. is who thus falsely and blasphemously hast represented the Light within like those that put Light for Darkness and Darkness for Light And now let the Reader judge Whether such dark envious Persons as thou herein hast shewed they self are fit to be Judges in these things of Controversie about such high matters touching the Three that bear Record in Heaven viz. The Father The Word and The Spirit when thou in thy earthly sensual wisdom never camest there neither canst thou till thou countest it loss unto thee and com'st to loose it that the Babe's state that enters the Kingdom be known in which the Light and Life of the Son of God is manifest which discovers the hidden things of darkness and reveals the Mysteries of God's Salvation to them that obey it but not to such as count it an Idol and now what may we expect but darkness from such an one as calls the Light within an Idol and they that look into thy following work against us may see the gross darkness thereof yea darkness that may be felt W. M. By their three Persons you mean the three increated Persons of the ever blessed Trinity the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost Three increated Persons are thy own words and terms but the Father Word and Spirit we really own and bear witness to both as mentioned in the Scripture and as knowing the absolute Testimony and Eternal Power thereof manifested where that which may be known of God is manifest even within both in creating begetting and quickening us again to God out of death and darkness And these Three which are One which bear Record in Heaven to wit The Father the Word and the Spirit as I could not own the title of Three distinct and separate Persons to be put upon them as thy Brother Erroniously did being not Scripture-language so it was never my intent nor Principle to compare them to three Apostles or finite Creatures as most falsely and injuriously thou accusest me But to endeavour to make the People understand both the grosseness and falseness of Tho. Danson's and Tho. Vincent's Principles of three distinct separate Persons in the Deity you naming each Person God which renders them Three Gods whilst but One God by shewing the Consequence of this your Principle After I had from Scripture shewed how inseperable the Father and the Son were and the Oneness of the Father Word and the Spirit but if I had simply compared them to three Apostles who were distinct and separate Persons then had I owned your own Terms and Principle and then the Controversie had fallen between us But instead thereof I am accused for opposing your Doctrine of distinct separate Persons and thus you confound your selves in wronging of me for were not the three Apostles Paul Peter and John three distinct separate Persons did I ever deny that they were how like then to finite Creatures doth your own Doctrine render the Eternal God his Word Spirit which to shew was my end in instancing three Apostles for we never believed the Eternal God to be like to corruptible man since we knew any thing of his Divine Power But T. Danson in his Synopsis pag. 12. plainly instanceth three Apostles Peter James and John as also his instance of David and Solomon for their Trinity or three Persons in one nature Was not this an instance of finite Creatures and such an indignity put upon God as I never intended How can such men but blush for charging that on others which so evidently they are guilty of themselves Madox We call the Father Son and Holy Ghost Three Persons or Hee 's according as they are held forth in the Scriptures Answ. Nay had you stood to Scripture-language there had not been any Controversie between us therein but it would not satisfie you but you must obtrude your Popish unscripture-like terms and distinctions or rather worse in telling not only of distinct but separate Persons which being plainly refuted from Scripture you may remember I several times called to T. D. and T. V. to confess their Error I shewing how inseparable the Father and the Son were reflecting chiefly on the words separate Persons which how you come off about will appear hereafter And as for their being Three Hee 's thou W. M. durst not keep to any Argument from thence or to make that any Cause or Reason why we must own them to be Three Persons though here thou seem'st to make the terms equivolent viz. Three Persons or Hee 's so then it appears that either will serve if the Three that bear Record in Heaven be but own'd under the Name of Three Hee 's it will serve instead of Three distinct Persons but then are all Hee 's or Males Persons and all Shee 's or Females no Persons What strange Logick is implyed here And where doth the Scripture mention three increated Persons thou tell'st of are they three distinct increated Persons If so then mayst thou not as well say they are three distinct Infinites three Eternals and so three Gods Where is now the blasphemy and blasphemer And Christ's speaking of another Comforter which was the Spirit of Truth Joh. 14.16 was not another Person distinct from him for that Spirit was then in him neither doth he use those words for the same Comforter or Spirit was in him and was that divine Life that then spoke in him when he was personally present with them He doth not say he would send them another Person to Comfort them but speaks more spiritually for though they had been Comforted in his outward Presence and Ministry yet his spiritual Presence was that other Comforter for ever to abide with them for in that Joh. 14.17 Christ speaking of the Spirit of Truth or that other Comforter saith he that dwelleth with you shall be in you vers 18. I will not leave you comfortless I will come unto you which clearly explains his former words which to say this Comforter was a Person distinct from Christ is all one or as absurd as to say the Spirit or Life that was in him was a distinct Person from him or that he was a Person distinct from himself for I will not leave you comfortless I will come unto you or were it not gross to say That Christ in his People is a Person distinct from Christ or
thereby being to his satisfaction how can men continuing in their sins truly plead they are fully acquitted at once without them and they onely in the implicite belief thereof received from the ridged Presbyters rest satisfied in their sins all their life time And where doth T. D. prove his Doctrine of Christ's being holy by a true inherent righteousness of the humane Nature pag. 25. what Scripture hath he for this or these Expressions was not his Righteousness from the Divine Nature and was it not Everlasting but is not that which is humane Finite And T. D. saying that the Socinians vomit the Quakers have now lickt up pag. 27. herein hath he spoken scornfully and falsly against us which will not at all tend to convince Socinians if they were as bad as rendred but to that they can answer him And his saying the Elect whilst Sinners in state where proves he this that the Elect are Sinners in state seeing the state of the Elect is a sanctified and chosen state out of the World and its wayes chosen in Christ through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth 2 Thes. 2.13 the impossibility of deceiving the Elect is signified Matth. 24.24 where the Calling and Election is made sure they shall never fall 2 Pet. 1.10 And that Christ was made surety of a better Covenant Heb. 7.22 And came to do his Fathers Will Hebr. 10.7 And that his being a Surety is an Act of Grace pag. 28. This we confess and own more then you that contend for Sin for the Will of God is our Sanctification and the better Testament and Covenant which Christ is the Surety Mediator and Establisher of is that of Righteousness Life and Peace wherein Sins and Transgressions are done away and wherein true Believers live to God And as for T. D. his so often comparing God to a Creditor Christ to the Surety and Sinners as the Debtors telling of God being considered as a Creditor and as a private Person pag. 32. But where doth the Scripture so call him Reply He does not speak from a true sence of God or Christ or of Gods Covenant but a Notion he hath learned by Tradition and as to Sinners their case is worse then meerly Debtors they not onely owing obedience to God and Christ but are disobedient and rebellious as the case of Fellons Traytors and other Malefactors is worse then that of Debtors yet Christ is our Surety Mediator and Intercessor to make agreement between God and man and to deliver man from the Punishment and Wrath to come by delivering from Sin the cause of it and destroying the Devil the Author of Sin not for us still to live in Sin and daily both contract more Debt and incur tribulation and anguish upon our Souls Howbeit the Wayes of God extend beyond T. D's comparison his Wayes are not as man wayes nor his Thoughts as mans thoughts for as the Heaven is higher then the Earth so are my Thoughts higher then your thoughts saith the Lord whose graciousness also to poor deceived lost man for his restoration is infinitely beyond mans legality and exactions as the Lord said I will not execute the fierceness of mine Anger I will not return to destroy Ephraim for I am God and not man the Holy One in the midst of thee Hosea 11.9 But is there not perfect obedience now for men to perform must they all live in Sin and Imperfection tearm of life and say all our Debts is paid and if all their Debts be paid why are they not out of Prison Are not all that are in Sin and Bondage of Corruption in Prison and would it be glad Tydings to tell them that though Christ has paid all their Debts and procured their release and ransomed them that they must not expect personal freedom out of Prison nor out of their Chains and Fetters so long as they lived here or if one should tell the Slaves in Turkey that they are ransomed and yet they must not expect personal freedom from their Vassalry and Slavery so long as they live here would this be glad tydings no sure but rather sad news and is just like these Presbyterians and Independants preaching to people and the tendence of their Gospel and pretence of Satisfaction Redemption Ransom c. whilst they hold none of them in Truth nor Righteousness nor in the same Spirit that gave forth the Scriptures of Truth and Testimonies of Christ or his Apostles T. D. pag. 29. He is satisfied and the debt paid too by his Intercession which being grounded upon his Satisfaction supposes it to be what it pretends full and compleat Observ. Here it is to be observed that notwithstanding this his Assertion of the Satisfaction both by payment and punishment being compleatly made and the debt fully paid yet he confesseth to Christ's Intercession but what does he ever live to make Intercession for if all be fully done paid satisfied at once by Christ's personal subjection and obedience must there ever be an intercession for that which is already so fully and dearly paid for as they reckon Christ hath done and God hath granted how will this hold consistent But then it appears it supposes it to be what it pretends full and compleat saith T. D. pag. 30. So here is now supposition and pretence put upon Christ's Intercession and Satisfaction what sorry shallow work is this but it appears But to proceed from one that hath followed his own conceptions notions weak judgement and humane understanding as also one that by his Logick and Traditional borrowed Notions and Doctrines goes about to make People to believe that from him that he hath no Scripture phrase for as that of God being a private person and other things And therefore like a Lawyer is fain to patch up his work as well as he can though in many things it be very inconsistant and repugnant to it self And whereas our confessing Christ both in Life and Suffering to be a perfect and real Example is so much struck at by these Priests and Professors we still withal confessing both to his Power and Living Effects through all and of all his Sufferings Afflictions Death and Life which we reverently esteem touching which I testifie in the Lord that if Christ be not really owned and confessed as he was a real Example both in Life Conversation and in Patient Suffering neither the Fellowship of his Suffering nor the Power thereof is truly known or experienced for they who would partake of the Benefit and blessed Effects of Christ's Death and Sufferings and yet will not own him for their Example shall never enjoy him therein seeing that Christ also hath suffered for us leaving us an Example that we should follow his steps who did not sin neither was guile found in his mouth 1 Pet. 2.21 22. Again Forasmuch then as Christ hath Suffered for us in the Flesh arm your selves likewise with the same mind for he that hath sufferred
evident that they were troubled condemned and reproved by his Witness in their Consciences or else how should they say depart from us if he never came nigh them nor ever touched their Consciences or why should they say we desire not the knowledge of thy Wayes if the knowledge thereof was not tendred to them And further If so be that the Gentiles as confessed were those in whom that which might be known of God was manifested and shewed unto them from the Creation to the being of God and his Eternal Power which discovery did leave them without excuse what was it that brought them to this understanding of the Eternal Power and Godhead from and through the Creation was it Spiritual yea or nay surely this clear sight and discovery in them did rise from that which might be known of God that was manifest in them and if this had not a sufficiency in it to save how were they left without excuse surely the fault was not to be laid upon God nor on his Light in them but to and upon themselves for disobeying it and not liking to retain him in their knowledge And seeing Christ is confessed page 63. to be set for a Light to the Gentiles Isa. 49.6 which saith T. D. is but a Prophesie of the Gentiles mercy in the time of Christ's actual exhibition in the Flesh. However this Mercy is of a large extent and for ever to be prized as in the fulness of time it is more manifest then before and now especially since it is thus openly declared and manifested it ought not to be thus opposed and slighted by men of corrupt minds which affirm it is an error to say that Christ enlightens ever man that cometh into the World and yet at length are forced to confess it as in these words viz. That it is Supernatural the Light of the Gospel of the Messias c. And thus they are confounded and broken to pieces and their wisdom turned backward by this convincing Light this stumbling stone this Rock of offence which they cannot avoid stumbling at and falling upon and breaking to pieces who set themselves against it and bring forth their vain imaginations to eclipse its glory as too many of this Generation hath done And now touching the Scriptures being a Declaration of the Word of God but not the Word nor the only Rule of Faith and Life which T. D. sets down as an Error wherein he hath no less then accused the Scriptures themselves with being Error For first we in calling them a true Declaration we call them what they call themselves Luke 1. as also that they are Writings given forth by the holy men of God and that which they call the Word we do also the Word was in the beginning with God John 1. and his Name is called the Word of God yet both the Doctrinal part and Historical part of the Scripture contained in the Books of the Old and New Testaments we own and never sleighted nor denied yet if we should look upon them as the only Rule of Faith and Life this would exclude the Rule and guidance of the Spirit for the only Rule must be infallible certain incorruptible obvious c. which leads into all Truth as either not sufficient so to guide or not to be owned as the Rule of Faith and Obedience to God c. and this would be contrary to the Testimonies of the holy men of God concerning it who followed it and directed others to it and to walk in this Spirit and therein they knew their several attainments and measures and herein was the Rule of the new Creature who worshipped not in the oldness of the Letter but in the newness of the Spirit Rom. 7.6 2 Cor. 10.13 14 15. Phil. 3.15 16. Gal. 6.15 16. And we know that without the guidance of this Spirit of Truth men can never come to a right judgment nor understanding of the holy Scriptures or Spiritual things And how then doth T. D. go to prove the Scripture to be the Word and the only Rule of Faith and Life whilst he hath granted that to bring a testimony of Scripture concerning it self were petitio principii a begging the question and were insignificant for their conviction which deny its Divine Authority What course then will he take to convince such seeing he himself doth but follow his notions conceivings and humane understanding while Divine Revelation and immediate Inspiration are laid aside and opposed in these dayes by such as he Pag. 65. he saith he will give a taste of our Arguments and leave our tenents to the judgment of the understanding c. What understanding and what Judgment must be the Guide and Rule of mens judgements and undertandings if the Light within must not be the Rule for after he hath asserted the Scriptures to be the only Rule of Faith presently he hath put himself upon a Hanck and shakes his own Foundation in confessing the Scriptures insufficient for the conviction of such who deny its Divine Authority otherwise it s but a begging the question to go to prove the Scriptures by themselves and now what he will erect as a Rule instead thereof for the conviction of such whilst he hath opposed the Light within and asserted the insufficience of the Scriptures shewing them not to be the only Rule is questionable whether he knoweth himself if he doth let him tell it to them that desire it And Pag. 66. It is to be observed one while he tell us of the Judgment of the Vnderstanding another while the matter contained in the Scriptures was the Rule before it was committed in writing and that the Gospel was preached to Adam And again when they affirm the Scripture to be the only Rule its intended to them who have the Scriptures and not to them that have them not Pag. 67. And presently after we must understand this point with connexion with the former the Light within So do but mark what confusion here is First 't is his own confession that the matter contained in the Scripture was before it was written Secondly That to them who have not the Scriptures something must be the Rule and what is it the Light within having no other way as he saith Now if the Light within and the matter contained in the Scriptures be a sufficient Rule to them which have them not in the Writing surely its sufficiency is not diminished by the writing but rather testified unto neither is it the intent of the Scriptures to draw people from either the matter or Light within which opens them nor to set up Scriptures as the only Rule instead thereof But then saith T. D. that very Scripture Rom. 10.8 speaks not of the Light within but of the Scriptures Answ. It speaks of the very same Word which Moses and the Prophets spake of which was before the Scriptures were written in Moses's time much of them was unwritten and yet he directed the people to
of the Godhead or Divinity of Christ or his Spirit we never denied nor scrupled Therefore for J. O. to require any that except against their terms and inventions positively to deny the Unity of the Deity is both sad Doctrine and unreasonableness as also shews an imperious lording spirit though its probable among the Independants and Professors he can make a shew of more humility then he did formerly for he now wants Cromwel to promote him However he and others of his Fraternity might by this time have in reallity learned more lowliness and humility then yet appears in them towards such as cannot be screwed up to their way and method of expressing the Invisible things of God which are Heavenly Divine and Spiritual as his being and properties are absolutely above the comprehension of J. O's reason as is confest pag. 128. We cannot by searching find out God we cannot find out the Almighty to perfection And yet vain man would be wise and imploy his natural reason and fallen wisdom both to find and set out God to evince him and his things unto the natural reason of others which still falls short both of any true knowledg and spiritual understanding for vain by nature is every man and ignorant of God It is the spiritually minded who are begotten to God who are spiritually and immediately taught by his Spirit that have a true and spiritual understanding of Divine Matters and Mysteries Pag. 118. J. O. Every person hath distinctly its own Substance But then in contradiction he adds for the one Substance of the Deity is the Substance of each Person but each Person hath not its own distinct Substance Reply A strange Riddle and invention that each person hath distinctly its own Substance and yet not its own distinct Substance what Scripture hath he for this Critick and nice distinction how is a person then an individual Substance of a rational nature that is not upheld by another if it hath not its own distinct Substance whilst yet it hath distinctly its own Substance but the Divine Substance of the Deity of the Father the Word and Spirit is but one as often hath been granted so then the Holy Ghost though confessed to be a Substance pag. 101. yet I say not a Personal Substance distinct from the Father and the Son as there is ignorantly asserted But then J. O. to tell us pag. 118. That all Divine properties such as to be infinite is belong not to the Persons on the account of their Personallity but of their nature c. Observ. Then it appears they are not three Infinite Persons but one Infinite God and yet those Persons are the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost were it not both Blasphemy and contradiction to say they are finite and what better have our Opposers said but at other times they are Eternal God Eternal the Eternal Son and Eternal Spirit and thus they wheel about and say and unsay Answ. It were better for them nakedly to apply themselves to the plain Language of Scripture and keep to it to lay aside and avoid confusion and absurdities about distinct finite personallities which the Scripture does not put upon the Infinite God in whom there is neither finiteness nor variableness I am God I change not saith he the Lord is one and his name one from Everlasting to Everlasting he is God unchangable And the Father Son and Holy Ghost being one Divine Infinite Substance are one Infinite God Away with your vain babling and invented erroneous distinctions of finite Persons in him who is infinite you are not worthy therein to talk of God nor to take his holy precious and pure Name in your mouthes who are in your sins and pollutions corrupting your selves in your carnal conceptions and imaginations about those things that you know not who are gone a whoring after humane inventions invented words names terms and distinctions such as neither the Holy Ghost nor the Scriptures ever taught you Pag. 117. And as for them that will keep to their Cavils and Sophisms about terms and expressions I know not who J. O. may intend hereby but if he intend us called Quakers because we do not own but oppose his and their dark unscriptural terms and expressions which darken both counsel and knowledge we do reject his Accusation and Charge herein for Cavils and Sophisms are rather his and his Brethrens who have been trained up in Sophistry and School-craft in order to be furnished to a Trade of Preaching to make a Trade of the Scriptures corrupting them by their dark meanings and School-terms and Philosophick distinctions by which poor people have been kept even learning that they might be always paying them Pag. 117. But then J. O. addeth against such as he supposeth will keep to their Cavils and Sophisms That all further debate or conference with them may justly and ought both conscientiously and rationally to be refused and rejected Reply If herein he may intend us as it s probably he may as well as others among whom he has numbred us though unrighteously as his debating or conference is of little value or esteem with us whilst it proceeds neither from a sence of God's Divine Power nor from any Living experience of God or his work within but from humane inventions and traditions So J. O. and his Brethrens work in these matters whether they go on in it or stop from further debate it will be of very little weight to us since we see to the far end of their subtilty and beyond their spirits and confusion however J. O. laying it as their duty not to debate any further with such as he censures as before he hath brought himself and those that own him under a Law and Limitation that if they further contend with us they must either not accuse us with Cavils and Sophisms or else not debate nor contend any further with us for if they do so accuse and censure us and yet further debate or contend with us they transgress their own Law so strictly here urged by J.O. and by the same reason when he and they are found guilty of Cavils and Sophisms may not others as much slight him and them therein But however he or they judge or censure us I hope we shall not be backward nor negligent to vindicate the Truth and clear our innocency from reproaches and scandals of men of perverse and envious spirits when we have occasion given us thereby J. O. These sacred Mysteries of God and the Gospel are not lightly to be made the subject of mens contest and disputations Observ. It is very true that sacred Mysteries of God and Gospel are not lightly nor yet slightly to be made subjects of contests nor yet ought they to be medled with by light airy minds nor by perverse and prejudiced spirits which are apt to bring forth perverse disputes as it is too common to men of corrupt minds who are destitute of the Truth But why then do
little Storm or Persecution comes to try you its probable the Back-doors Back-wayes Closets Cole-holes Garrets or Cock-lofts with the Back-leads c. may stand you Professors in some stead as they have done many of you otherwise if there be no such By-wayes to make an escape and run away the Table spread with Victuals or Beer and Tobaco may stand for a colour and pretence in your Meetings as they have in some of them to delude those that shall oppose you and make them believe a lie and discover what spirit and religion Independants and Presbyterians are of W. M. * See his shuffle here for neither Nature nor Man simply can be called Three distinct separate Persons as Peter James and John were and as they say the Father Word and Spirit are Contradict * That was not Christ. * Where then is the Impossibility in him for it see Matth. 19.26 Luk. 1.37 Contr. to the former * Not upon his beloved Son Christ. All which Contradict their Doctrine of Imperfection and prove our Principle and then their filthy Raggs of self-Righteousness and best Performances which are sinful are shut out of both Union and Intimacy with Christ as not proceeding from any true dependance upon him or that Spirit and Truth wherein the True and Living God is Worshipped by all such as are of the true Circumcision In the Margent are J. Owen and T. Danson 's Doctrines [a] Jo. Owen For the term of Satisfaction the right understanding of the word it self depends on some Notions of Law that as yet we need not take into Consideration pag. 150. [b] J. O. He Christ bare our sins or the punishment due unto them pag. 160. He answered the Law and the penalty of it pag. 161. T.D. The deliverer undergoes the evil in kind which he that is delivered should have undergone pag. 24. Obs. Here is as much opposition between these men and Dr. Still as if J. O. should say It was the very same punishment c. but E. S. Nay It was not the very same c. [c] T. D. Christ when he suffered was not Innocent and when God required satisfaction of him it was due from him c. [d] J.O. God as supream Ruler dispenseth not with the Act of Law but the immediate object and substitutes another Sufferer in the room of them who are principally lyable unto the sentence c. [e] J. O. The Son of God was upon the account of the Dignity of his Person able to Answer the Penalty which all others had incurred [f] J.O. That God did so lay our sins in and by the sentence of the Law upon him c. pag. 166. [g] T. D. God admits of what Christ did on our behalf as if it had been our personal Act as the Creditor Cancels the Bond le ts the Debtor out of Prison and gives him as Legal a Discharge upon the Sureties payment c. Observe T. D's words below whereupon 1. I ask if refusable Payment how then is God bound to take Vengeance in T. V. his sense 2. If another thing be paid How agrees this with J. O? For [h] T. D. Supposes That Satisfaction to be Solutio recusabilis Refusable payment dum alius solvit aliud solvitur When another Person then what was obliged makes payment another thing is paid then what the Law required * As J. O. T. D. T. V. they being the Mistakers [h] T.D. That Christ made a Compensation to God for the Injury done him by our sin which may be both by doing and suffering Justice that is Vindictive * For which see their railing Language as Black-mouthed Blasphemers hiddeous Blasphemers with Socinian and damnably Heretical Opinions c. used by T. V. They may receive a Check from Dr. Stillingfleet to the Reader viz. It may be some will be dissatisfied that I give our Adversaries no harder Names but I never found any men convinced by ill Language and those we have to deal withal are too subtile not to distinguish between loud Clamours and Demonstrations I leave that Method of Confuting them to those who have greater Abilities in that way I think it very Incongruous for us while we Magnifie the Patience and Meekness of Christ in his Sufferings to discover our Passion in Disputing about them [a] T. Danson Christ when he Suffered was not Innocent and when God required Satisfaction of him it was due from him Christ was guilty of our sin when he Suffered for it Synopsis pag. 36. Christ was made sin by Imputation therefore so are we made Righteous pag. 40. [b] T.D. A state of freedom from sin is not attainable in this life No man ever did attain a state of Perfection viz. none of the eminently Holy Persons in the Scripture pag. 55. Yet Perfection is commanded Be ye therefore perfect as your Heavenly Father c. Mat. 5.48 Such Commands are the measure of our Duty not of our Attainments pag. 57. [b] T.D. A state of freedom from sin is not attainable in this life No man ever did attain a state of Perfection viz. none of the eminently Holy Persons in the Scripture pag. 55. Yet Perfection is commanded Be ye therefore perfect as your Heavenly Father c. Mat. 5.48 Such Commands are the measure of our Duty not of our Attainments pag. 57. [b] T.D. A state of freedom from sin is not attainable in this life No man ever did attain a state of Perfection viz. none of the eminently Holy Persons in the Scripture pag. 55. Yet Perfection is commanded Be ye therefore perfect as your Heavenly Father c. Mat. 5.48 Such Commands are the measure of our Duty not of our Attainments pag. 57. * His tasting Death was not the Revenge that the Wicked have incurred neither is Grace Revenge
extends whether to enjoyn to the perfect obedience of Faith yea or nay seeing sin and corruption is so prevalent amongst you and so contended for surely where the excercise of the true and living Faith is experienced there is obedience to the Law of it or else what doth it signifie whilst persons remain in disobedience Further T. D. confesseth that we have an immediate dependancy upon God in our operations John 15.5 without me ye can do nothing Siorsima me separate or apart from me It s well he hath at some time assented to the Truth but how doth this contradict the greatest part of his own and his Brethrens work elsewhere in their pleading for imperfect obedience and their imagined imputation of Righteousness and Justification to the unrighteous and unjust for those operations which have a relation to an immediate dependence upon God which he that is in Christ doth experience and bring forth do accord with the mind and will of God which is the Sanctification of those that believe and with that most holy Faith which purifies the heart and these are not imperfect nor to be slighted as undeserving according to the vain notions of Priests concerning Faith its works and inherent Righteousness as they term it Pag. 47. T. D.. Their dependancy upon Christ in all the good they do is as near and intimate as the Branches upon the Vine by vertue of their natural union in bearing Fruit. Answ. This is also a Truth that grants a perfect obedience in them that have such a near intimate dependency upon Christ as the Branch hath that grows upon the Vine by vertue of the natural Union thereof this also contradicts their pleading for imperfection and sin in all obedience and works which also shews that they do not flow nor spring from Christ the true Vine as also that they have not union with him nor are Branches of him and indeed how they have not immediate dependency upon God in Christ whilst they deny Immediate Teaching Revelation and Divine Inspiration to be attainable in those dayes But seeing without or apart or separate from Christ men can do nothing how then can they be any thing without him as righteous or acceptable or justified For men must be something in that Relation before they can do any thing acceptable and it is the Spirit and Power of Christ which sanctifieth and maketh just and bringeth into the true Obedience Works and Righteousness of Faith and to live by Faith as the Just doth Pag. 48. But Faith as a work is not opposed to nor excludes it self as T. D. saith because in one sence it is opposed to the deeds of the Law for true Faith as a Work is the Work of God which is not opposed to it self besides it being the work of God to believe in Christ this hath not relation to those deeds of the Law that the Jews wrought out of him and out of or besides that Faith wherein they fell short of the Righteousness of the true and living Faith and of the perfect Obedience or Righteousness of the Law Now seeing he confesseth pag. 49. to a righteousness bestowed upon men by Faith I ask if that man is not a partaker and enjoyer of that righteousness by Faith Surely Faith and its Righteousness are not separate nor divided Also he confesseth Faith in God through the Messias is called a walking humbly with God Micah 6.8 To this I say whilst he thus considereth Faith as such a walking were it not very gross nonsence and contradiction to say that it excludes it self as before or that those works or effects of Faith viz. Walking humbly with God were opposed to the Faith it self which is the Root thereof But this is even like T. Vincent's affirming Faith to be opposite not only to the works of the Law but to its own Works Pag. 51. I find T. D. upon James 2.24 doth not distinguish betwixt the Works of Faith and the Works of the Law and so talks like an ignorant blind Guide with his vain babling and perverting of the Scripture to exclude perfect Obedience and Perfection from the Believers And seeing he granteth that Justification imports the Absolution of Sinners and the Approbation of a Believer which he distinguisheth betwixt Then it is to be minded that a Believer that is approved of is absolved being Justified and what from if not from Sin and Transgression Otherwise Faith that stands but in a bare profession without a living work of purifying the heart overcoming the World c. is but a dead Faith as T. D. in fine confesseth And we are Justified by works as our Faith is made perfect by works James 2.22 but these are not the works of the Law but the Works of the Living Faith which manifesteth Fruit to God and demonstrates the nature of the Living Faith But his telling of a Sinner being Justified in the sight of God where doth the Scripture say so he quotes Rom 3.23 to prove it but it doth not but only that a man by Faith is Justified without the deeds of the Law which deeds of the Law a man may be Justified without and yet not a Sinner nor without the Obedience Works or Righteousness of the True and Living Faith which Purifieth the heart and Justifieth from all those things from which they could not be Justified by the Law of Moses And as to his saying That we are made free meritoriously by the Law of the Spirit in us from the Law of Sin and Death The word meritoriously he addeth But the freedom of the Law of the Spirit in us from the Law of Sin and Death we do confess and that it is the same Law of the Spirit of Life that is in Christ and the Saints according to the Apostles Doctrine the Freedom of which we testifie is of Everlasting worth for that it is not wrought by our selves but by Christ and his Law and Spirit Pag. 52. T. D. saith That we observe that the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in the Persons of the Saints Indeed we do observe it believe it and experience it and do not wholy put it off from us to be fulfilled in the Person of Christ as T. D. and some of his Brethren have corruptly done though we do confess that the Righteousness of the Law was fulfilled in Christ's Person but not therefore to exclude it out of us since that he was a faithfull Example to be followed as well as a Captain and Leader to guide in all the Wayes of Peace and true Holiness Pag. 52. And as we do observe that the Righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in the Persons of the Saints contrary to T. D. and his Brethrens observation and thereupon not only suppose but really assert a state of Freedom from Sin attainable in this life we do not place the Merit of Justification upon the Creatures imperfect obedience or works but origionally on the Spirit of Truth and its perfect work in which
Spirit Christ perfectly obeyed offered up himself a Lamb without spot to God and we know that it is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ that makes us free from the Law of Sin and Death Romans 8. which Freedom is effected with in Pag. 53. If there be a connexion between Justification and Sanctification and that the same Christ Jesus that Justifieth by his Blood Sanctifieth by his Spirit as is confest from Calvin c. in Loc. 2. then men are not Justified whilst in an unsanctified state seeing that it is also evidenced by a holy life but then herein T. D. seem doubtfull as rather enclining to lay it upon the active obedience of Christ but then is not he that is Sanctified and Justified being in an holy life a partaker of Christ's Righteousness Obedience and Subjection in the Spirit of Life and the pure Law of it seeing that makes free from the Law of Sin and Death But then he wavers again to the understanding of some who suppose the end of Christ's coming into the World is that God's Righteous Laws might not be absolutely contemned but might be observed though imperfectly by Believers others saith he of the Imputation of Christ's Surety Righteousness c. This imperfect observation of God's Righteous Laws is that he would fain center in and which indeed the tenor of most of his discourse amounts to though it be not the end of Christ's sending into the World nor yet the work of the Spirit and Law of Life within for the end thereof was to destroy sin and to work mans perfect freedom from it which they that experience are only the true and real subjects of Christ's Righteousness and know the true imputation thereof and effect and real benefit of his being a Surety of the new Testament wherein the Promises of God are fulfilled to and in man and man brought under the obligation of that Law and Covenant which tends to the exaltation of Truth and Righteousness in the Earth and the bringing the Creature into a perfect and peaceable subjection unto its Maker So Christ's being both our Surety Advocate Intercessor and Mediator betwixt God and man is to make both Unity Reconciliation and Peace betwixt them a Mediator being not a Mediator of one but betwixt two c. to bring into mutual agreement T. D. Our good and our evil works are not perfectly contrary for our evil works are perfectly evil for malum fit ex quilibet defectu any one defect make our works evil but our good works are but imperfestly good Answ. If good works and evil works be not perfectly contrary where and what then are the good works whilst defect and imperfection is pleaded for which makes them evil Surely good and evil are perfectly contrary but by this man's consequence there is no good works whilst defects and imperfections remain in them and then why doth he call them good works It appears he gives them that name which is improper to them but if good works be really acknowledged as we know they are in Scripture and that they that are truly so are wrought in the Light and so in God these are perfectly contrary to evil but such T. D. his Brethren with their sins and imperfections are strangers to whilst they shew themselves to be out of the Light wherein the good works are wrought and as to the condignity he speaks of or worth as with relation to the infinite reward we do as before place it in that Heavenly Image Spirit and Life which brings forth the good works which were ordained of God and it is that Spirit which leads its Followers to the infinite reward of Life and Salvation Arg. 4. Rom. 2.13 Not the Hearers of the Law are Justified before God but the Doers of the Law shall be Justified to this T. D. saith The words give a reason of the Jews perishing who had the Law viz. the old Covenant Reply The reason of their perishing was their Disobedience unto the Law but this of the Doers of the Law wherein both the Just and Justified state is intimated according to the Gospel verse 14 15 16. relates to those Gentiles which had not the Law outwardly and yet did by nature the things contained in the Law which the Apostle renders as a reason and proof of their Justification who shewed the Work of the Law written in their hearts which Law was pure and Spiritual converting the Souls and here it is also evident that the matter or things contained in the Law they had both in Power and Operation who had it not in the Letter of it but the extent of this is and hath been much opposed by T. D. and such as he who have grosly perverted the Scriptures for their own sinfull and corrupt ends to their own and others destruction And now that a state of Freedom from sin is attainable in this life this T. D. erroneously sets down as an Error and argues against it as followeth Arg. 1. If no meer man ever attained to any such state then it is not attainable but no meer man ever did c. Answ. His term meer man is his own and not ours what he means by meer man is a question for it may be taken variously as first he may be deemed a meer man that is without God Christ or the guidance of his Spirit who lives to himself in which state we never said that freedom from sin was attainable by any meer man for without Christ we can do nothing Secondly if meer man be taken singly as purus homo or man purely or intirely without mixture of those things which are either contrary to him as Man or not proper to his being Man as sin and transgression were improper to him for so he was in his first Creation in Innocency and primitive Purity as so considered to deny him Perfection or Freedom from sin were to deny him that which God did invest him with whilst he was in his Maker's Image which was proper to him and to which Christ comes to restore man again out of the Fall But then T. D. explains what he means by meer man viz. such as the eminently holy Persons in the Scriptures whom he denies to have ever attained a state of Perfection by which he has accused all the holy Men of God at once as but meer men in the worst sence and such were they that were carnal and walked as men 1 Cor 3.3 and he hath therein both opposed God's Commands Promises and Works as also the end of Christ's manifestation which was perfectly to restore man out of sin and unrighteousness unto God see Gen. 3.15 Rom. 16.20 Deut. 6.5 and 10.12 and 11.1 and 13.18 and 19.9 Matth. 22.37 Mark 12.30 Gen. 17.1 Deut. 18.13 2 Sam. 22.33 Psal. 18.32 and 37.37 and 119.1 2 3 4. Isa. 1.16 John 13.8 Isa. 4.4 and 60.21 Ezek. 36.25 26 27 33. Jer. 33.8 Hebr. 8. and chap. 10.13 14 15 16 17. Zeph.
could suffer pag. 55. Contrad T. V. It being impossible for any finite Creature to make plenary Satisfation to the infinite Justice of God which requireth an infinite Satisfaction pag. 54 55. If Christ had not been God as well as Man the Sufferings and Satisfaction would have been but finite Obs. First This Person that should make satisfaction by suffering and death it seems now is counted a Creature which yet as such could not satisfie infinite Justice as Contradictorily is confessed But as before it 's said He was the Eternal Son of God proved to be God equal with the Father but now in Contradiction again it was as God and Man that he satisfied whereas it was not as God that he suffered and died but we confess that God was in Christ reconciling the World to himself T.V. Christ did bear the punishment of our sins viz. the curse and punishment our sins deserved that he might give Satisfaction unto God's Justice pag. 57 58. Obs. Query But did God undergo that punishment surely nay Or did Christ as man undergo that eternal Punishment Death and Curse due to sinners Could Christ's Death or Temporal Sufferings be Eternal Yet still we confess That God both had and hath still full satisfaction and pleasure in his Son Christ the Anointed the Lamb that was offered without spot to God a Sacrifice for sin though your abuse of Christ confusion and darkness in stating your Matter we cannot own as proceeding from any sence or savour of Christ either as a Sacrifice or Saviour T.V. His Righteousness obligeth him to take vengeance upon all that have transgressed his Law pag. 54. Our righteousness are as filthy Raggs Contrad T. V. He doth Exercise his Justice freely as he doth love his Image in his people freely pag. 65. Obs. Then your filthy Raggs cannot cover you from his vengeance for therein you are not in his Image which he loves freely in his People and yet you would be accounted his People where you are it 's high time for you to Repent and no longer cover your selves with such Raggs polluted Garments For God will lay you bare and naked 3. Of Justification T.D. There is no need of inherent Righteousness for Justification Contradiction But yet there is need of it to make us meet for Heaven Col. 1.12 pag. 45. Contrad Inherent gives us a fitness for the injoying of it it lying in Communion with God without likeness of disposition there can be no liking of each other pag. 46. Obs. What then are persons in a Justified state while they are neither meet for Heaven not fit to enjoy it nor yet partakers of that which makes like to God and brings into Communion with him Which is this inherent Righteousness of Christ as it is called which T.D. hath shut out as not needful for Justification contrary to plain Scripture 1 Cor. 6.11 Rom. 2.13 Jam. 2.21 Heb. 12.14 T.D. Satisfaction is a compensation or recompence made to God for injury done him by sin which may be both by doing and suffering Vindictive Justice Contrad T. V. Godliness is enjoyned upon all pag. 67. Obs. How then did Christ undergo infinite Wrath from offended infinite Justice that sinners and sin deserved when he never sinned For here every one is to obey and answer the pure Law of God viz. by Godliness and if Godliness be enjoyned upon all I ask must all remain in a sinful ungodly state and Commands to Perfection be construed but as the measure of our duty according as T. D. saith pag. 57. who formerly affirmed also That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us was meant in Christ and not in our persons so then must we look on Christ as his being Godly Righteous Obedient to Death for men fully to satisfie and take off the Righteous Injunction laid upon them to Godliness perfect Obedience c. That it is to be meant Christ must be perfect for us he is to be only the subject of all those Commands enjoyning perfect Obedience Righteousness and Holiness and not we which is as absurd and all one as to say That when God Commands us by his Grace not to sin but to be perfect or perfectly to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live godly soberly c. That he all this while intends his Son Jesus Christ as the subject of these Commands And whereas he never said Son Jesus Christ Do not thou sin be not thou ungodly do thou deny worldly lusts live thou godly soberly be thou perfect for all and it shall satisfie me fully instead of Perfection or Righteousness in men seeing none can be perfect or free from sin in this life c. But this absurd Course is the current tenour and intent of our Opposers Doctrine And yet they must confess That Christ never sinned nor could sin neither was there guile found in his mouth so their presenting him only as the subject of perfect Obedience and not Men or Believers is all one as to say That all those Commands directed to us for that end was only intended to Christ for T.D. construes his Satisfaction and Payment in men's stead to consist in both Doing and Suffering viz. Both in Christ's Obedience and Subjection to the Law and God's Precepts as also to its Penalties and Curses pag. 19 20. But T. V. layeth it upon his Death in their room and thus they manifestly Contradict themselves whereas God was alwayes well pleased or satisfied in Christ both in his active obedience and also in his passive subjection to suffering death as man even in all his whole Conversation Ministry Life and Death for Mankind he being a perfect Sacrifice for sin but God is not therefore satisfied with man out of Christ or out of obedience to the Law of his Spirit but as he comes to be found in Christ having and possessing his Righteousness within and the Life and Effects thereof which doth not admit of sin and imperfection term of life seeing as is Confessed by T.D. and T.V. That God loves his Image in his People freely and without likeness of disposition there can be no likeing of each other And surely the Image likeness and disposition of God in his People is pure and perfect which sin and imperfection bears no resemblance of T.V. No persons being the subjects of Gospel Justification but as ungodly that is as having sinned Contrad T. V. Where he removeth the guilt of sin he also removeth the filth of sin Justification and Sanctification being unseparable Companions Justification is never without Sanctification Obs. See the apparent Contradiction here in this latter to the former for here note then That no Persons are the subjects of Gospel Justification as ungodly or as in their sins but as being sanctified and the filth of sin removed so then justified not in sin but in the Truth and Righteousness of Christ they being washed cleansed and sanctified and only such are they that are Justified in the Name
of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 6.11 T. D. Satisfaction is not a Scripture phrase but the thing is found there to wit a Compensation made to God for the injury done him by our sin which may be by doing or suffering or both Justice that is Vindictive pag. 19. Contrad T. D. Those places that speaks of the turning away of Divine Wrath by Christ's Obedience which Wrath is but an Inclination to punish pag. 22. Christ's Obedience cannot properly work upon God's Will Contradiction again Contrad T.D. The Deliverer undergoes that Evil in kind or equivalently which he that is Delivered should have undergone pag. 24. Obs. What Evil was it that sinners deserved or should have undergone do you not confess it was the Wrath and Vengeance of God Hell Everlasting Damnation and Punishment from his just hand And did Christ the Deliverer undergo all that What a strange Object is he here rendred and yet he was both God and innocent Man But how doth this hold with that before That it was but an Inclination to punish What apparent Ignorance and Contradiction is here And is this the great Glory Power Soveraignty Divine Love Mercy and Goodness that you ascribe to the infinite God to lay such a limit upon him as that he could not forgive pardon or pass by former offences without exacting not only full Payment but Revenge and Punishment upon the Surety viz. his innocent beloved Son even the same in kind due to the Transgressors whereas the Scripture saith The Chastizement of our Peace was upon him which is not the same with Everlasting Wrath and Vengeance from the immediate hand of God which I cannot believe was so laid on Christ whose Mercies are over all his Works and particularly mankind but his Wrath is revealed against all ungodliness T.D. Upon actual Faith he layeth aside his anger quite and becomes our friend pag. 33. Obs. Then it appears his Anger is not quite laid aside nor Friendship with him obtained till Actual Faith How has T. D. overthrown and given away their Cause herein Faith and Repentance must be Experienced or else Anger is not quite laid aside T. D. Though the thing be true and owned by us viz. That Christ could not satisfie God's Justice as Man or as God singly p. 34. Obs. Could not God satisfie himself What a strange limitation is here laid upon the infinite God And surely as God-Man as your term is he was not under the same Evil Wrath or Everlasting Punishment which was due to the Transgressors For God did not deal so with himself but he commended his Love to us in that while we were sinners Christ died for us he died for our sins but was raised for our Justification it was Christ that died yeâ— rather that he is risen again T. D. The Father's gift of the Son for our Redemption depends on nothing but himself Our Doctrine represents not the Son kinder than the Father The Father and Son as God are equally kind to man and equally angry at man's sin p. 36 37 38. Obs. If equally kind to man then why did T.V. lay such an Impossibility on God of freely pardoning But then doth T. D. think he amends it by considering God as a Creditor and so as a private Person pag. 32. Where proves he this in all the Scriptures And if the Father and Son be equally angry at man's sin then man must Repent and forsake his sins before their anger be wholly removed or either fully pleased or satisfied concerning man For where was there a third Person substituted to pacifie the Anger of both Howbeit God was well pleased and fully satisfied in Christ and concerning all his Works Sufferings and Sacrifice in order to man's Salvation and we are accepted in the Beloved of God for whose sake and in whom we have received Remission Righteousness Life and Peace with God having received Christ the Righteousness of God for that end T. D. A state of freedom from sin is not attainable in this life and yet commanded Matth. 5.48 and that no man ever did attain a state of Perfection pag. 55.57 T.D. Christ was not ashamed to call us Brethren Heb. 2.11 that is fellow subjects for being one in nature with us he becoms one with us in an obligation c. pag. 20. J.O. Christ gave himself for us that he might Redeem us from all iniquity 1 Pet. 1.18 pag. 160. It would altogether unbecome the Holy God to pardon sinners that continue so to live and die in their sins p. 179. T. D. That Mystical Union betwixt Christ and his People by their dependance upon him in all the good they do is as near and intimate as that of the branches upon the Vine by vertue of their natural Union in bearing fruit pag. 47. Some Passages out of Edward Stillingfleet's Discourse of the Sufferings of Christ which are evidently Contradictory to John Owen and Tho. Danson PAges 269 270. The state of the Controversie hath been rendered more abscure by the mistakes of some who have managed it with greater zeal than judgment they have shot over their Adversaries heads and laid their own more open to Assaults It is easie to observe That most of Socinus his Arguments are Levelled against an Opinion which few who have considered those things do maintain and none need to think themselves obliged to do it which is That Christ paid a proper and ridgid Satisfaction for the sins of men considered under the notion of Debts and that he paid the very same which we ought to have done which in the sense of the Law is never called Satisfaction but strict Payment Against this Socinus Disputes from the Impossibility of Christ's paying the very same that we were to have paid because our penalty was eternal death and that as the consequence of inherent Guilt which Christ neither did nor could undergo If a Mediator could have paid the same then the Gospel had not been the bringing in of a better Covenant but a performance of the Old pag. 271. But if there be a Relaxation or Dispensation of the first Law then it necessarily follows That what Christ paid was not the very same which the first Law required for what need of that when the very same was paid that was in the Obligation But if it be said That the dignity of the Person makes up what wanted in the kind or degree of punishment this is a plain confession That it is not the same c. Besides if the very same had been paid in the strict sense there would have followed a deliverance ipso facto for the Release immediately follows the payment of the same and it had been Injustice to have required any thing further in order to the discharge of the offender when strict and full payment had been made of what was in the Obligation But we see that Faith and Repentance and the Consequences of