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A54912 Occasionall discourses 1. Of worship and prayer to angells and saints. 2. Of purgatorie. 3. Of the Popes supremacie. 4. Of the succession of the Church. Had with Doctor Cosens, by word of mouth, or by writing from him. By Thomas Carre confessour of the English nunnerie at Paris. As also, An answer to a libell written by the said Doctor Cosens against the great Generall councell of Lateran under Innocentius the third, in the yeere of our Lord 1215. By Thomas Vane Doctor in Diuinity of Cambridge. Carre, Thomas, 1599-1674.; Vane, Thomas, fl. 1652. Answer to a libell written by D. Cosens against the great Generall councell of Laterane under Pope Innocent the Third. aut 1646 (1646) Wing P2272; ESTC R220529 96,496 286

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his 9. and tenth booke of the citie of God all ouer and he will plainely discouer to what he there alludes to witt to the opinions of Trismegistus the Platoniques and after them it may be to the Symoneans who were sicke of the same disease as saith Tertullian in these tearmes The discipline of the Magicalart of the Symoneans ser uing the Angels is counted among the idolatries Who held that men were to goe to the supreme God by the lesser Gods or Angells hauing first vsed holy purifications or purgations As l. 10. c. 9. speaking against Porphyrius a Platonique For Forphyrius doth promise a certaine purgation as it were of the soule by him called Theurgia yet he doth it with a certaine hesitation and as one would say with a blushing kind of disputation and denyes that any by this Art is helped to returne to God so that one may discouer him wauering betwixt the vice of sacrilegious curiositie and a Philosophicall profession now putting one opinton now another For now he warnes vs to beware of this Art as deceiptfull and dangerous in the deed doing and prohibited by the law And soone after as giuing way to such as prayse it affirmes it conducible to the cleansing a part of the soule not the intellectuall part wherein the Truth of intelligible things which haue no corporeall similitudes are discouered but the spirituall part capable of corporeall images or resemblances for this part saith he is adapted and fitted by certaine Theurgicall consecrations which are called Teletae to the receipt of spirits and Angels wherby to see the Gods And ibid. ch 16. wheras therfore some Angells doe excite men to worship this one God and some againe excite them by working wonders to honor themselues with soueraigne worship Latriâ and so too that those forbid that these should be worshipped let the Platonique say to whom we should rather giue credit yea let what Philosophers soeuer say let the Theurgi or rather the Perurgi c. Nay lastly let euen men say if there be yet any sense of humane nature wherby they are created reasonable creatures in any measure left in them whether we ought rather to sacrifice to those Gods or Angells who command that sacrifice should be offered to them or to him alone to whom these command it who forbidd that sacrifice be offered either to themselues or to those others The 9. booke of the Cittie LEast any should East any should thinks he ought to follow them as good Daemones Angells by whose meanes or mediation as it were while he doth desire and studiously en deauour to be reconciled to the Gods which euery one beleeuees to be good c. he may wander far from the true God But that which I most admire is that you Mr. Cos. whom reports haue alwayes deliuered to vs for a learned moderate and ingenuous man should picke out such abstruse passages which being well looked into make nothing at all for you and endeauour amidst such darknes to wrest your will from a Father by forceing him to speake against what he hath dogmatically and clearly deliuered in so many other passages which you might with as much facilitie haue met withall as In the II. booke of the Cittie of God Chap. 31. BVt the holy Angels after whose societie and companie we grone in this most perilous pilgrimage as they haue an eternall permanencic so haue they a facilitie in knowing We are a●●●sted by them and a felicitie in reposing for without difficultie they helpe vs because they labour not in their spirituall pure and free motions Epistle 121. chap. 9. OR happily let them to witt our prayers be knowen to the Angels who are with God that in what manner they are to offer them to God and what counsell they are to vse therm T●●y offer our praters to God And what by his comand to witt Gods they know ought to be fulfilled c. they may bring vnto vs either openly or couertly for the Angel said to the man Tobic And now when thou and Sara didst pray I offered your prayer in the sight of Gods claritie In his 6. Chap. of his Annotations vpon Iob. HAue mercy on me haue mercy on me o friends heseemes to Welairfully pray to them bescech the Angels that they would become intercessours for him or at least the Saints that they would pray for a penitent The Cittie of God the 22. booke Chap. 8. I Had begun to dispute more diligently of the whole cause and behold while I disputed other voyces of new gratulations are heard frō the Martyrs shrine The publique practise of praying at the shrines of the Martyrs My Auditours turned and began to run that way for she to witt Palladia Pauls Sister as soone as the was downe the staires where she had stood she was gone to pray to the holy Martyr ad sanctum Martyrem orare to pray to the Martyr or at the shrine of the Martyr to witt S. Stephen as is plaine by these words following What was in the hearts of those that exulted but the faith of Christ for which Stephens bloud was powred out who as soone as she had touched the rayles falling as it were downe into a sleepe she rose sound A mirucle Wrought in S Augugustins sight While therfore we made inquirie what had befallen which had caused that ioyfull noyse they brought her sound into that part of the Church where we were frō the place where the Martyr lay Then both men and women made so great an admiting noyse that the bruite continuing with teares seemed to find no periode She was lead to that place where a litle before she had stood trembling c. The 7. booke and 1. Chap. against the Donatists LEt him S. Syprian of whom he spake helpe vs by his prayers in the mortalitie of this flesh A saint prayd to in particular as persons labouring in a darke cloude c. Vpon Psalme the 83. ALl the Martyrs which are with him Christ doe intercede for vs The Saints interceede for vs. Their intercessions are not ended saue with the end of our sobbings The 1. Sermon on the feast of S. Stephen SAint Stephen was heard that by his prayers Sauls sinne might be blotted out We counselled to pray to S. Stephen Let vs therfore cōmend our selues to his prayers For much more is he now heard for those that pray rightly to him In Psalm 88. Sermon 2. LEt vs celebrate the birthdayes of Saints with sobrietie Their birth-dayes celebrated that we may imitate them who went before vs and let them reioyce in vs who pray for vs that the blessing of our Lord may for euer remayne with vs. In the Citie of God 10. booke the 12. chap. When his Angels doe heare The Angels heare vs. he God doth heare in them as in his true temple not made by the hands of men Against Faustus the 20. booke the Chap. 21. CHristiā people doe