crouch and bend to her and that he became Lord and master of all then did he among the rest of his requitals entertaine and command such part of the Dragons religion and Church-seruice as might giue him the best content and most aduance his owne temporall state of glorie So that hauing once obtained the Dragons seate and that all his heads hils and hornes were his he thought he might now do what he list fell to desolating of the true worship of God and to consuming of the Saints of the most high the remnant of the true Spouse the children of the woman before described and pulled downe the daily and spirituall sacrifice which they the spirituall house of God offered vp acceptable to him by Iesus Christ cast the truth to the ground as the Prophet had foretold of him brought in and set vp the abhominable and most execrable religion of the heathen compounding it and dignifying the parts practise and practisers of it the more to delude the world with the names and titles of God Christ holy Spirit the word of God his holy Church his worship Seruice his holy Sacraments and Saints And that he might haue all in obedience made such lawes by the aduice of his priuie councell that whosoeuer would not worship the Beast and this image of the Beast the idols and abhominations of the heathen and pagans should by the executioners of his will be taken and killed And because he would be sure to know his own and to find out all that would not submit caused all both small and great rich and poore free and bond to receiue a marke in his right hand or in his forehead and that no man might buy or sell saue he that had the marke c. Now when once things were come to this passe it was no longer time for any soule that would be saued to stay and for this cause it was that Christ commandeth saying Come out of her my people that ye be not partaker of her sinnes and that ye receive not of her plagues for her sins haue reached vnto heauen and God hath remembred her iniquities And these were the very reasons why at the first the Church of England separated from her and also why so many of other nations did forsake her When Wickliffe Husse Tindal Luther Cranmer Latimer and others forsooke the Church of Rome and came out of her they stood not to make question about their outward calling or ordination they had receiued before of the Church of Rome but God hauing called them now by a more speciall heauenly calling to preach his truth they staid not for neither did they look after another Nay if they had the truth might haue lien hid we might haue sat in darknesse vntill this day but they finding the approbation of God and his people It was enough Let me aske If God should vouchsafe to call the Bishop of Rome the Pope that now is and that he should forsake all those abhominations which he now liueth in and become such a Scribe Bishop or Elder as before we haue described who would condemne him or call him Antichrist for that he was once the Pope of Rome though he had neuer other outward ordination more then the approbation of God and his people or who would call the people that should imbrace him Antichristians doubtlesse not any of the children of wisdome Agiane presuppose that the state of all Europe were now as it hath beene heretofore all vnder Antichrist and his Church and that God should call one of the Bishops of that Church out from them and in due him with the knowledge of his truth by his word Spirit and that there be a necessitie as thou saist that he must haue another outward ordination before he can Minister the word of God vnto any people so as to be a Bishop or Elder vnto them whither wouldest thou haue him to goe for it or where wilt thou finde an Eldership to ordaine him In Europe there be none all are Antichristians Wilt thou haue Apostles againe to lay a new foundation and must they ordaine new Elders before their can be a true constituted Church with her offices and ordinances as thou termest them Is this thy iudgement It may be if it be not Nay it must be if thou hold thee to thy former It hath beene the opinion of some of thy predecessors that held themselues as wise as thy selfe whatsoeuer thou art as for instance there were among others three Brethren ancient Separatists from the Church of England liuing sometimes in the Cittie of London their names were Legat these held it stifly that their must be new Apostles before their could be a true constituted Church and they drew it from this their ground the one was called Walter Legat who about twenty yeares since was drowned being with one of his brethren washing himselfe in a riuer called the Old Foord Another of them called Thomas Legat died in Newgate about sixteene yeares since being laid there for the Heresie of Arius The third called Bartholomew Legat was burnt in Smithfield about ten yeares since being condemned for the same Heresie of Arius for they all held and stood stoutly for the same also These Legats had a conceit that their name did as it were foreshew and entitle them to be the new Apostles that must doe this new worke but you see what became of them There was also one Iohn Wilkinson another ancient stout Separatist who with diuers that followed him held the same likewise drawing it from the same ground as a necessary consequence thereof who also came to naught But if there be any yet that will needs haue new Apostles as no doubt there be for their carnall contentions worke still to that point then let me aske thee whence must they come who shall send them Christ is ascended and he doth not now appeare to call and send any as he did the Apostle Paul and Apostles must be such as come from the presence of the Lord and haue seene him For which cause Saint Paul saith in the defence of his Apostleship Haue not I seene the Lord c. And he that was to be in Iudas his roome must be one that had bin conuersant with the Apostles the time of Christs being then on earth an eye witnes to publish that which he saw and beleeued So that Apostles thou canst not vpon any good ground expect If thou saist the Church may ordaine nâ—â— Elders I aske whence came that Church who plant 〈◊〉 first can there be an Orchard of fruitfull trees and was there not a husbandman that planted it Can faith be without preaching or can there be a Church without faith If thou hast found a true Church find but out him that planted it that first preached the word of God vnto it whereby it beleeued and became his Church thou hast found an Elder feare it not thou needest not make further
A DISCOVERY OF THE ERRORS OF THE ENGLISH ANABAPTISTS As also an Admonition to all such as are led by the like spirit of error Wherein is set downe all their seuerall and maine points of error which they hold With a full answer to euery one of them seuerally wherein the truth is manifested By Edmond lessop who sometime walked in the said errors with them PSAL. 40. 1. I waited patiently vpon the Lord and he inclined vnto me and heard my crie He brought me also out of the horrible pit and mirie clay and hath set my feete upon the rocke and ordereth my goings And he hath put in my mouth a new song of praise vnto our God many shall see it and feare and trust in the Lord. Therefore haue I not hid thy righteousnes within my heart but haue declared thy truth and thy saluation and haue not concealed thy mercie and thy truth from the great congregation ver 10. LONDON Printed by W. Iones for Robert Bird and are to be sold at his shop in Cheapside at the signe of the Bible 1623. Their principall points which are handled in this Booke viz. 1 That God did predestinate all men to be saued vpon condition that they repent and beleeuè the Gospell 2 That God did not elect before all time to grace and life any particular persons but in time he doth elect qualities as faith and obedience and then finding these qualities in men he doth elect their persons for the qualities sake 3 That all men haue free will in themselues as well to repent of their sinnes to beleeue the Gospell and obtaine saluation as they haue to remaine in hardnesse of heart and vnbeliefe and in the estate of damnation 4 That the stedfastnesse of mans iustification and saluation doth depend vpon his owne will in continuing in the act of beleeuing and works of righteousnesse and that such as haue faith in Christ Iesus regenerate persons hauing their names written in the book of life may fall away from all may become vnregenerate and haue their names rased out of the booke of life againe and perish and that God doth alter and change his purpose and promise and come to hate and reiect such as he hath formerly loued and iustified 5 That there is no Originall sinne but that all children of all maner of people in the world as well heathens Infidels Idolaters worshippers of Diuels all kind of blasphemers fornicators vncleane persons whatsoeuer as of the faithfull are free from all pollution of sinne both in the conception and birth and dying before they commit actuall sinnes are saued 6 That none ought to be baptized but such men and women of yeares onely as haue attained to true repentance and iustifying faith being both in the account of the Church and in the sight of God regenerate persons and that the baptisme of children vsed is no baptisme at all but is the marke of the Beast spoken of in Reuelat. 13. 7 That the Church of England is a false and Antichristian Church and ought to be separated from As also a touch of the errors of the Familists 8 And that a King or Magistrate cannot be a true Christian except he giue ouer his kingly office or Magistracie AN ADVERTISEMENT to the Christian Reader WHereas Beloued there hath risen and sprung vp from amongst vs many dangerous and erronious opinions in these our last dayes about the subiect of Religion let it not therefore seeme strange vnto you being the Spirit of God did not onely foresee but also foretold of the same long before they did appeare euery one being diuided into sundry and seuerall factions all pretending to worship the true and euerliuing God in spirit and in truth speaking peace vnto themselues when as the most of them do yet lie wallowing in the puddle of iniquity and cradle of securitie being not purged in heart all which doe rise two sundry wayes being branches of one stocke deriued from one principall head namely the spirit of error The first is in that they contemne or so little or lightly esteeme that meanes which by Gods prouidence is affoorded vnto vs vnder our peaceable dread Soueraigne Lord the King Secondly they being selfe conceited or as Saint Paul speakes aduancing themselues in those things they neuer saw rashly puft vp with carnall mindes supposing they know some thing more then others vnderualuing all and ouerualuing themselues the conceit whereof causeth them to fall to Schisme and seperate from all others when as indeed and in truth they being examined by the word and Spirit of God it will appeare to the godly wise that as yet most of them know nothing aright or as they ought to know if euer they expect the saluation of their soules For if they were but possessed with the true knowledge an liue of God in Christ and so were of a sound mind at Saint Paul exhorts all to be it would rather cause humiliation then exaltation which would truly teach euery one how to dâ—meane carry himselfe about so weighty a subiect The neglect hereof doth bring them into a labyrinth of errors following after a forme of godlinesse through the wisdome and knowledge of the braine onely without the power thereof contenting themselues in the out side of religion blessing themselues in what they can doe and measuring the loue of God to themselues by their owne doings as of old their predecessors the Scribes and Pharises did following shadows insteed of substances dreaming of a kind of felicitie in this forme and in that seeking peace and rest to their soules where it is not to be found which condition of theirs I cannot but condole desiring with the Prophet That my head were water and mine eyes a fountaine or well of teares that I might weepe day and night for their misery And in speciall for them who are neere and deere vnto me in the bonds of nature For poore soules they couer their spirituall misery with Adams fig tree leaues or with the spiders web striuing for an outward separation in the flesh when alas it is much to be feared that with many of them there is litle or no care at all for a separation of the soule from sin challenging and assuming vnto themselues soundnes of religion and assurance of Gods loue euer measuring themselues by themselues and not by that eternall wisdome which is Iustified of her children being blinded through selfe-loue not willing to iudge themselues and so become low in their owne eyes that God might be all in all but contrariwise iudging and condemning all but themselues after this maner doe they follow the vision of their owne hearts deceiuing and being deceiued running and flitting from one opinion vnto another being vnstable in all their wayes Which practise of theirs may well be compared vnto certaine flies feeding on the backe of a gald horse which is euer flitting or remouing from one place to another vntill at last they come to sucke so much
of Iudas and of his fellow disciples who could not relish the words of eternall life which Christ spake saying Except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood ye haue no life in you and the case of those Antichrists and of those vnfaithfull euill hearted draw-backs as it hath been the case of many thousands more and is still at this day yet the case of Peter of Iohn and the rest of the Apostles was far otherwise as is now also the case of all regenerate true hearted Christians they beleeue to the sauing of the soule they eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood spiritually by faith and haue eternall life abiding in them they dwell in Christ and Christ in them they are borne of God and therefore draw not backe sinne not to perdition for the seed whereby they are begotten remaineth in them neither can they so sinne because they are borne of God nay they are sealed by the holy Spirit of promise vnto the day of redemption they ouercome the world endure and keepe his words and works vnto the end they are the liuely stones of Gods temple built vpon the chiefe corner stone who are made a spiritual house to offer vp spirituall sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ his Church against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile they are the good ground spoken of the good trees which cannot bring forth euill fruit but good only the euill which they doe at any time is not their fruit because it proceedeth not from their hearts but is done vnwillingly through weaknesse for in their hearts they serue the law of God The Scriptures account that to be a mans fruite which cometh from his heart whether it be good or euill because thereby the nature of the fountaine which is the heart is knowne as the nature of trees are by their fruite So that the nature of a good man I meane that which is borne of the Spirit not his fleshly nature is now to bring foorth good fruite only as Christ testifieth saying A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth foorth that which is good We can do nothing against the truth saith the Apostle A good tree cannot bring forth euill fruite And whereas the Scriptures speake so often after this maner If ye hold fast vuto the end If ye continue Him that ouercometh and keepeth my words and works to the end then are ye his house then will he approue of ye then shall ye be saued And on the contrary He that looketh behind him He that endureth not If any draw backe or fall away c. he is not meete for the kingdome of God My soule shall haue no pleasure in him There remaines no more sacrifice for sin The drift of the Spirit of God is to informe vs of the different estates and conditions of Christians of the danger of the one estate and of the well being and safetie of the other that so we seeing the difference and being forewarned thereof might not depend vpon that which is so dangerous but striue vnto that wherein there is safetie And where it saith of some Let them be blotted out of the booke of the liuing I will put his name out of the booke of life The meaning is not that God will put any mans name out of the booke of life that is written therein but his meaning is that such desperate and wicked persons as blaspheme his truth and Spirit shall be set down as it were with a blot cursed vtterly excluded and pronounced against for such as there is no hope or place for repentance as was Iudas and others of his companions of whom it was foresaid Let them be blotted out of the booke of the liuing let them not be written with the righteous c. for they persecue him whom thou hast smitten they talke to the griefe of those whom thou hast chosen So that whereas men may seeme to haue a place among the Saints in the Church of God and to be in as good an estate as they by reason of some gifts of the Spirit which they may receiue and some alteration the word of God may worke in them yet being neuer sanctified in heart by the faith of the Sonne of God in time they discouer themselues to be in heart euill and aduersaries to the truth and such as God doth by his word exclude and pronouuce cursed children twice dead and pluckt vp by the rootes such as neuer had nor shall haue their names written with his people in his records of life which before their discouerie might seeme both to themselues and to others to haue and therefore it is said And from him that hath not shall be taken away euen that which he seemeth to haue which seemeth also to be an improper speech for how can that which a man hath not be said to be taken from him He had something may some say and it is true he had heard and receiued the word with ioy but not in deepenesse of root not in a good heart his heart was neuer sanctified by faith like vnto his that brought forth fruit he was enlightned and had tasted of the good word of God and of the powers of the world to come but he seemed and made shew to haue more he presumed no doubt that his name was written in the booke of life which was more then that he had receiued could warrant him This his pretended shew is now also taken from him and his name is openly by the iust sentence of Gods word put out of all hope of being or euer to be written in the book of life and he is now like the earth which bringeth forth nothing but briars and thornes neere vnto cursing it is impossible he should now be renewed For nothing is secret saith the text that shall not be made manifest nor any thing hid that shall not be knowne and come to light Therefore saith he take heed how ye heare For whosoeuer hath to him shall be giuen and he shall haue abundance and whosoeuer hath not from him shall be taken away euen that which he seemeth to haue But what is the booke of life for peraduenture it is a secret to some doubtlesse It is both Gods secret and reuealed decree or will concerning such as shal be saued by that which is reuealed the secret is made knowne His secret decree we haue in the first beginning of our writing shewed which briefly is this That God before the world was foreseeing the fall of mankind did chuse in Christ a certaine number of them to life and saluation which were all foreseen and knowne of him and recorded by his decree in the roule of Christ before they were his reuealed will or decree which we haue before also at large exprest is briefly this namely the speciall promises and testimonies of
of the Lord though they be inlightned and taste as much of the good word of God as either Cain or the Iewes did God vseth threatnings oft times to bring that seed which he promised to call to repentance he giueth them repentance he promiseth grace to the repentant in a speciall particular maner he giueth them faith also to receiue it he promiseth likewise saluation absolutely to these beleeuers he admonisheth them because they of themselues are apt to fall yea and would fall and perish if they stood by their owne strength if God did not sustaine them and had not ordered and disposed of all things for their safetie and wel being he commandeth them to watch and to pray and he giueth them his Spirit which helpeth their infirmities without the which they know not what to aske and it maketh request vnto God for them with sighs and grones which cannot be exprest not because they may yet perish but because they should not perish and for that they are weake and apt to fall and grieue the Spirit He also chasteneth them not for their hurt nor in his wrath but that they should not be condemned with the world And because God hath appointed them to be holy and so to saluation therefore he hath appointed all these things For as he before the world was purposed to saue them so likewise did he determine of the way and meanes whereby to saue them and the meanes is as certaine as his decree And Gods promises concerning life eternal to speake properly are not vpon any conditions though he doth seeme so to propose them to the world but they are absolutely free without any condition of our parts It is true God will saue none but such as repent and beleeue his Gospell bring forth fruite endure to the end c. yet these are not conditions for God giueth all these things to his elect as freely as he gaue Christ vn-them he conformeth them hereby to the image of Christ else grace and saluation were of due debt by desert which to teach is erroneous and Antichristian And although God did elect men in Christ from the foundation of the world yet did not the Elect fall from their Election in the fall of Adam neither did Adam himselfe lose his Election by his fall as they would infer thereupon for Gods Election was not of man considered in his innocencie but of men 〈◊〉 foreseene fallen and therefore they are said to be chosen in Christ who was to be a reconciler and mediator for sinners and not for innocent persons So that the obiection of them which say if the Elect cannot fall out of Gods fauour then did not all fall in Adam If the elect cannot fall from their election then haue not all sinned is very carnall and wicked much like vnto that of the Saduces which said Whose wife shall she be in the Resurrection who like fooles knew not that in the resurrection they neither marry nor giue in marraige So they being ignorant of the wisedome and foreknowledge of God giue out If the elect cannot fall from their election then haue not all sinned And are as bould and thinke themselues aswell armed hereby against the certainty and continuance of Gods election as the Saduces thought themselues against the resurrection when they came in scorne thereof to pose Christ But I omit their friuolous obiections as not hauing any collour of reason because also we shall haue occasion to cleere those things hereafter Thus as we haue said God first publisheth his Gospell and all doe enioy some benefit thereby many are inlightned by it and are made partakers of some common gifts of the Spirit but few are made partakers of those which are speciall and peculiar And this is the order which God doth vse for the calling sanctifying and sauing of his elect First after they are inlightned to know his truth he calleth them in a speciall maner to repentance then in the second place by a more excellent gift of the Spirit he iustifieth the repentant soule from his sinnes and sanctifieth his heart and then thirdly they being now ingrafted into Christ their head doe bring forth fruit in him as before we haue described And these are the plantation of God the trees of righteousnes which the Scriptures speak of God is the husbandman and this is the maner of his husbandry And thus hath he seuered and distinguished his plants from all carnal vnregenerate Christians vnder what name or title soeuer they passe or in what outward estate or Church soeuer they liue And blessed is that man that hath part with them in those speciall gifts and treasures of life for on such the second death shall haue no power Thus haue we proued that whosoeuer is borne from aboue of water and the Spirit Iustified by faith in Christ whose names are written in the booke of life frō the foundation of the world shall neuer fall away nor haue their names razed out of the booke of life againe And that God doth neuer alter his purpose or promise but that all his decrees and promises shall surely come to passe Their fift point That there is no Originall sinne but that all children of all maner of people in the world as well heathens Infidels Idolaters worshippers of Diuels all kind of blasphemers fornicators vncleane persons whatsoeuer as of the faithfull are free from all pollution of sinne both in the conception and birth and dying before they commit actuall sinnes are saued Answ THe truth is though to our shame and sorrow it may be spoken that sin hath taken hold of all the whole posterity of mankind and all are corrupted by a perpetuall seed of generation orignially from Adam so that euery child of man that is borne of flesh as well of the faithfull as of the vnfaithfull is by nature the child of pollution and wrath and dying vnregenerate perrisheth from the glory of God and from the ioy of his presence for euermore This we neede not now to stand to argue for besides the manifold testimonies of Gods word which testifie against vs long and lamentable experence hath sufficiently proued it and doth dayly proue it vnto vs so that we haue more need to mourne for our selues in regard of the euill that is sowne in our natures thereby and to weepe for our children also which are bred and borne of vs as Christ charged the daughters of Ierusalem to doe for themselues and for their children then to stand to dispute the points or once to question whether it be so or no. Neuertheles to stop the mouthes of such as doe deny it we say that when Adam sinned all sinned together with him because all mankind were then in him and therefore when God cast Adam out of Paridice he cast all his posteritie out of Paracice with him and when God cursed the earth he cursed it not to his person alone but all that were to come of him as well
the heart by faith So then if they both aimed at one thing or end as shall appeare they did then it will euidently appeare also that by vertue of what precept the one was practised by vertue of the same precept the other is to be performed and practised It is also said that whosoeuer did omit the practise which that precept required was to be cut off from among the people that is to say that such a person ought not to be acknowledged as one in the outward estate of the Church then vnder the law so proportionably it will follow that what person soeuer yong or old that is not baptized he is also to be cut off that is not to be accounted or numbred in the outward estate of Christians now vnder the Gospell May such beleeuers as are not sanctified in heart be baptized as before is proued and may not the children of beleeuers be baptized Why are the children of beleeuers said to be holy the children of vnbeleeuers throwout the whole Scriptures are neuer said to be holy doubtlesse it is because they are in heart holy or else because they being the children of the faithfull haue some promise as touching the inheritance of life belonging to them as the children of the faithfull had formerly and so haue right to enter into the Congregation where the wayes of life are taught as they then by circumcision so these now by baptisme that they may be informed in the wayes of the Lord else would there be no difference betweene the children of the faithfull and the children of infidels So that to this end is the vnbeleeuing husband said to be sanctified to the beleeuing wife and beleeuing wife to the vnbeleeuing husband because otherwise if the vnbeleeuer in this regard were not sanctified to the beleeuer then were their children vncleane that is to say as the children of infidels that haue no promise belonging to them but rather a curse and therefore are vncleane and may not enter It is therefore meete seeing God hath put difference betweene the children of the faithfull and the children of infidels that they should be distinguished from them by some outward signe concerning the same And what can they haue lesse then baptisme which can giue to no man any more then the outward name of a Christian as circumcision did the outward name of a Iew. It doth neither confer nor confirme grace to the heart of any no more then circumcision did It proueth that a man is a Christian outwardly and it teacheth that he should be so inwardly and so did circumcision It proue a man to be a Iew outwardly and it taught that he should be a Iew inwardly yea a Christian inwardly to speake fully as the truth is for euery true inward Iew was a true inward Christian And to be circumcised in heart was to be baptized or purified in heart by faith through the Spirit as also to be baptized in heart by faith through the Spirit is to be circumcised in heart for so doth Saint Paul in plaine words affirme writing to those Christians whose hearts were sanctified by faith saying And ye are compleate in him which is the head of all principalities and powers In whom also yee are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sinnes of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ buried with him in baptisme wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God who hath raised him vp from the dead In which words I say he setteth downe expresly that the baptisme which saueth the baptisme whereby we put on Christ the baptisme whereby our hearts are purged and sanctified and the sinnes of our flesh done away whereby we are buried with Christ and doe rise with him euen that which is through the faith and operation of the Spirit is one and the same with the circumcision of the heart which he therefore calleth the circumcision made without hands the circumcision of Christ whereby also it appeareth clearely and beyond all contradiction that the circumcision or the cutting off the foreskin of the flesh was a signe and true representation of the doing away of their sinnes of the clensing of the heart by faith as now the doing away of the filth of the flesh with the baptisme of water is for which vse and end it was also giuen to Abraham at the first as this Apostle also declareth in an other place saying And he receiued the signe of circumcision a seale of the righteousnes of the faith which he had being vncircumcised that he might be the Father of all them that beleeued though they be not circumcised that righteousnes might be imputed to them also Where he I say fully declareth that the circumcision of the flesh was giuen not to that end and purpose as the carnall corrupt Iews imagined to teach righteousnes to be by the Law which was to make the promise voide which is to be attained onely by faith and not by workes but is taught and directed to the righteousnes which is by faith through the promise in the circumcision of the heart which Abraham had and which all their seed of whom God made him the Father were to haue and that the circumcision of the flesh was a signe of and did teach the circumcision of the heart if any yet question it the same Apostles words a little before proueth it where he saith For he is not a Iew which is one outwardly neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh but he is a Iew which is one within and the circumcision is of the heart in the Spirit not in letter whose praise is not of men but of God Where we see that there was a Iew outwardly and a Iew inwardly a circumcision outward in the flesh and a circumcision inward of the heart in the spirit The outward had but the name and did onely signifie and teach what should be inwardly in the heart and that in the heart was the thing it selfe All these things being now thus cleere we reason thus That if children might once receiue the signe of circumcision of the heart after the old forme of the Law then may they now after the new forme of the Gospell But they might once after the old forme of the Law Therefore also now after the new forme of the Gospell That they might once after the old forme is past all question And that they may now after the new forme we proue thus That which was once for good ends in the time of the Law appointed and is not by the Gospell disanulled it is lawfull still But it was appointed for good ends that children should receiue the signe of the circumcision of the heart and it is not by the Gospell any way disanulled Therefore it is lawfull now still But these men obiect and say that there is no plaine commandement nor example in the new testament
enquiry from whence he came or who ordained him he could not doe such a worke except God sent him though he came from Rome If thou saist Euangelists may preach the Gospell to the people and ordaine Elders as Timothy and Titus did It is true but where be they who shall ordaine such and send them to doe this Apostles we haue none If thou saist disciples may preach as the seuentie did c. I aske still who made those disciples Didst thou euer know a field beare good wheate that was neuer sowne If thou hast found good disciples doubtles there was one or other that did first informe them So that thou mayst see thou art still in the same case thou wert in and that of necessitie it will follow that if there can be no true Church till there be a new outward ordination then there will neuer be a true Church Wherefore we conclude against thee and against all that are of thy iudgement that as you erre greatly in all your former points so in this and as many of the former do agree with the ancient errors of the Antichristian Church of Rome so doth this for they deny Gods predestination and election of some particular persons in Christ to grace and life from the foundation of the world and so doe you They teach free will and falling away from the best grace and that the certaintie of mans saluation doth depend vpon his acts of faith obedience and continuing therein and so doe you They teach that outward ordination and succession doth make constitute and proue a true Church and so say you in part if not in the whole That whereas you charge others to be of Antichrist and his Church it is euident you are more neerely allied to her by these deceitfull doctrines of hers then they can be with the things ye charge them with Nay they may notwithstanding be free from her when you shall by this meanes be found children of her If outward ordination and succession in that kind doe make constitute or be an Argument sufficient to to proue a true Church a Church wherein Christ dwelleth against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile to which Christ hath giuen the keyes of the kingdome of heauen and power to bind and to loose to remit and to retaine sins which is the pillar and ground of truth which hath the spirit of truth which Christ promised to be with vnto the end of the world and that wheresoeuer two or three of them should be gathered together in my name he would be in the middest for all these treasures and many more do belong to the true Church which is the body and spouse of Christ then the Chuch of Rome hath as good ground for the proofe and confirmation of her selfe to be the same true Church as any Church else whatsoeuer nay better ground then any other can shew And therefore her children which stands for her and doe pleade her cause take this to be and doe vse it as the strongest and most inuinciblest argument they haue to proue their Church to be the onely true Church this day extant and that all Churches and Christians ought therefore to come vnder her gouernment to be taught and nurtured by her to submit to her counsels ordinances canons decrees doctrines of faith rules for manners ceremonies censures and whatsoeuer she shall impose because what such a Church which hath those forenamed priuiledges shall agree vpon teach or command is truth and may not be questioned or opposed and therefore it is said For it seemed good vnto the holy Ghost and to vs. But we vtterly deny any such ordination or succession to make constiture or to be an argument sufficient to proue such a true Church and affirme that a Church may be false and Antichristian notwithstanding the same For although there be such an ordination and succession a Church against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile as the Lord himselfe declareth saying And vpon this rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it to which all those former priuiledges do belong and are to continue with vnto the end of the world yet we denie that kinde of ordination and succession to be it or to haue any of those priuiledges belonging thereunto but that it may be notwithstanding an vtter aduersary to the true succession and to all those her treasures which wee proue thus That kind of ordination and succession which haue opposed the word and truth of God that haue persecuted and murdered his seruants from time to time for the preaching and maintaining of the same truth and word of God is not nor can be that ordination and succession or church against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile nor to which any of those treasures do belong but may be an aduersary both to it them But the outward ordination and succession in the roomes publique offices and seates of the true Elders and Priests of God which is the best ordination and succession the Church of Rome that now is hath or can pleade for her selfe and which the separations doe contend for haue opposed the word and truth of God haue persecuted and killed the seruants of God which preached and maintained the same his word and truth and for the same cause Therefore the outward ordination and succession in the roomes publique offices and seates of the true Elders and Priests of God is not nor can be that ordination and succession or church against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile or to which any of her priuiledges do belong but may be an vtter aduersary both to her and them And that such an ordination and succession as the Church of Rome and our Separatists pleadeth and contendeth for haue done and may doe all these euils against the truth and true seruants of God is euident by those Priests Elders and Scribes of the Church of the Iewes who had their outward ordination and succession from the former Elders and Priests yea from Moses and Aaron and sate in their seates and supplied their places and yet neuerthelesse were the great opopposers of Gods word and truth and the persecuters and murderers of the Prophets and righteous men of God which preached the same his word and truth from time to time as Christ himselfe often affirmeth to their faces and foretelleth them in a parable that they would be the betrayers and murderers of him also which shortly after came to passe And the Church of Rome for her part hath shewed herselfe in enmitie to the truth and bloody proceedings against the maintainers thereof for aboue a thousand yeares not onely to equall but to out-strip Ierusalem and to be euen the perfection and full accomplishment as it were of all abhominations cruelties against the truth of God and his Church according as Christ by the ministery of his Angell vnto his seruant