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A74751 Queries of highest consideration, proposed to the five Holland ministers and the Scotch Commissioners (so called) upon occasion of their late printed apologies for themselves and their churches. In all humble reverence presented to the view of the Right Honourable the Houses of the High Court of Parliament. Williams, Roger, 1604?-1683. 1644 (1644) Thomason E32_8; ESTC R212639 13,716 21

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Government as in Augustus Caesars tax to send their severall Priests and Deacons for other spirituall Officers then Bishops Priests and Deacons you know we have not to reforme or forme a Religion c We pray you to consider Dan. 3. Daniels Image a type of State Religions if the golden Image be not a type and figure of the severall Nationall and State Religions which all Nations set up and Ours hath done for which the wrath of God is now upon Us We pray you also to answer in what part of Christs Testament is found that title The Title the Assembly of Divines examined The Assembly of Divines and whether it be not in English The Church of Godly ones And as we Queried your ground for such a Church so have we also cause to pray you to tell us Where Christ Jesus hath given you power to assume and appropriate such a Title to your selves which seems in Scripture to be common to all the Children of God Some expresse it in Print and pulpit That title the Assembly of godly Divines examined the Assembly of godly Divines we derogate not from the worth or godlinesse of any of them yet you know the Assembly of Saints or godly Divines is no other in English then the Assembly or Church of Saints or godly godly ones All that will live godly in Christ Iesus must suffer persecution We presume you will grant others to be Saints and godly too in that sence but Oh that that whole Assembly or Congregation were truly resolved by way of Eminencie to lead all the godly in the Land in such a Christian practice QUERIE II. Whereas you both agree though with some difference that the Civill Magistrate must Reform the Church establish Religion and so consequently must first Judge and Judicially Determine which is True which is False or else must implicitly beleeve as the Assembly beleeves and take it upon trust and so consequently is he the Head Root and Fountain of the Supremacie of all Spirituall power and hath the power of the Keyes of opening and shutting heaven gates c. Of which power upon a grudge as 't is said about his Wife King Henry despoild the Pope King Henry the 8. set down in the Popes chaire and with consent and Act of Parlament sate down himselfe in the Popes Chaire in England as since his Successors have done We now Querie since the Parlament being the representative Common-wealth hath no other power but what the Common-weale derive unto The Common-weale yea the world the head of the Church and betrust it with whether it will not evidently follow that the Common-weale the Nation the Kingdome and if it were in Augustus his time the whole world must rule and govern the Church and Christ himselfe as the Church is called 1 Cor. 12.12 Furthermore if the Honourable Houses the representative Common-weale shall erect a Spirituall Court for the Iudging of Spirituall Men and Spirituall Causes although a new Name be put upon it A new High-Commission yet whether or no such a Court is not in the true nature and kind of it an High Commission And is not this a reviving of Moses and the sanctifying of a new Land of Canaan of which we heare nothing in the Testament of Christ Jesus nor of any other holy Nation but the particular Church of Christ 1 Pet. 2.9 Is not this to subject this holy Nation this heavenly Jerusalem the Wife and Spouse of Jesus the pillar and ground of Truth to the vain uncertain and changeable Mutations of this present evill world Who knowes not in how few yeares the Common-weale of England hath set up and pull'd down The Parlaments of Englands wonderfull changes in Religion The Fathers made the Children Hereticks and the Children the Fathers How doth the Parlament in Henry the 8. his dayes condemn the absolute Popery in Henry the seventh How is in Edwards the 6. his time the Parlament of Henry the 8. condemned for their halfe Popery halfe Protestanisme How soon doth Queen Maries Parlament condemn Edward for his absolute Protestanisme The present Parlament would have been esteemed Hereticall in former times And Elizabeths Parlament as soon condemn Queen Maries for their absolute Popery 'T is true Queen Elizabeth made Lawes against Popery and Papists but the Government of Bishops the Common Prayer the Ceremonies were then so high in that Queen and Parlaments eye that the Members of this present and ever renowned Parlament would have then been counted little lesse then Hereticks And oh since the Common-weale cannot without a spirituall rape force the consciences of all to one Worship oh that it may never commit that rape in forcing the consciences of all men to one Worship which a stronger arme and Sword may soon as formerly arise to alter QUERIE III. Whether since you professe to be Builders The only true Matter for a true Church are living Stones you have not cause to feare and tremble least you be found to reject the Corner stone in not fitting to him only living stones 1 Pet. 2. Of these living stones true Beleevers the costly Stones of the Temple were types and without true matter which as it is in all works in the World it is impossible to build a spirituall House unto God This matter the One of you confesse and practice the Other questions and mingles Sheep and Goats together contrary to the spirituall nature of the Lord Jesus and his true Pattern contrary to the nature of God who is a Spirit and will be Worshipped by Spirituall Worshippers contrary to the peace and safety of any naturall Soule and conscience hardned in a dream of Fellowship with God who saith to the ungodly What hast thou to doe to take my Covenant into thy mouth and hatest to be reformed Psal 50. QUERIE IV. Whether in your consciences before God you be not perswaded notwithstanding your promiscuous joyning with all that few of the People of England and Scotland Few of the people of England or Scotland living Stones and fewer of the Nobles and Gentry are such spirituall matter living stones truly regenerate and converted and therfore Whether it be not the greatest Courtesie in the world which you may possibly perform unto them to acquaint them impartially with their conditions and how impossible it is for a dead Stone to have Fellowship with the living God and for any man to enter into the Kingdome of God without a second Birth John 3. QUERIE V. Although the fame and sound is great of Reformation we Querie Impossible to reforme the dead in sin the spiritually living are only capable of reformation according to Christ Whether a dead soule is capable of any Reformation untill the first principle of Christianity Repentance Heb. 6.6 be found in him otherwise as a thousand severall renewed Forms of Apparell alters not the condition of a dead man or a thousand new Formes of Postures of an Armie
boast of the same against many Schismes and Heresies and doth try umph with wonderfull successe even against the Truth and the Witnesses of it according to Daniel and Johns Prophesies Dan. 11. Rev. 13. Thus it pleased God in his Providence to turn the scales of Victorie with a reliefe of their Armies to the Idolatrous Israelites and Edomites against the Moabites God sometimes gives great successe of Victorie even to Idolaters 2 Kings 3. and miraculously to deliver Idolatrous Apostate Israel from the mighty Armies of the Syrians 2 Kings 7. Thus he also rewarded hypocriticall Jehn for his temporall service in destroying Ahabs house with a temporall Honour to the fourth generation though himselfe and his continued in the Schisme Apostacie and Idolatry of the house of Israel We pray you also to call to mind how it pleaseth God out of the bottomles Ocean of his Goodnesse to cause his Sun to shine and his raines to fall upon the righteous and the wicked and time and chance saith Salomon happens unto all and one event It pleased the Lord to heare the Prayers of wicked Ahab God sometimes heares the prayers of legall cries of Idolaters and the Dwells themselves and to remit his temporall Affliction upon his temporall Humiliation Thus the Lord Jesus heard the prayers of the Divels themselves Luke 8. Upon the cry of the Idolatrous Mariners God mercifully provided to answer their prayers and cease the Storme by the casting out of Jonah Thus upon the external legall Humiliation of Ninivie it was reprieved and spar'd a season and Sodome had not been burned to ashes but had continued untill Christs time upon a supposition of their legall Humiliation Matth. 11. Thus although the Idolatrous Assirians feared Jehovah Iudgements taken off from the Assyrians upon the least shadow of Gods worship and served their gods 2 Kings 17. yet we hear no more of the Lions amongst them when the King of Assyria had taken order for one of Israels Idolatrous Priests to teach the Assyrians somthing of the manner of Gods service We Querie Whether all these Instances amount to more then Evidences of the infinite Mercies Goodnesse and Patience of God but are not proofs of their Worshipping of God according to his Ordinance that their Institutions were from him and their Reformations according to his Appointment Yea we further Querie Whether the power of godlinesse shining forth in persons may evidence their state and Worship good The power of godlines may shine in some persons living in great prophanations of Gods worship You both confesse the great profession of the power of godlinesse in England yet we beleeve the one of you acknowledge the Church of England as a Nationall Church not true and both confesse the Government Governours and the Common Prayer the Service and Worship of it to be abominable Yet it is confest that Englands false National Church with her Bishops Common Prayer ceremonies c. had more evidence of the power of godlines in her Children then was to be found amongst the Scotch French Dutch who pretend a Reformation purer It seems therfore evident that neither opposing of Heresies nor successe in Victories Deliverances nor power of godlinesse in some persons can evidence and prove their State and Worship to be right and pleasing unto God according to his Ordinance in Christ Jesus QUERIE XI Since you both seem to magnifie the Seales of Baptisme and the Lords Supper with a difference and excellency above other Ordinances We Querie where the Lord Jesus appointed such a difference and distinction And whether there was not as full Communion practised by the first Christians in the Word Prayer and Communitie as in the breaking of Bread Acts 2.42 Further we Querie since Baptisme is one of those Fundamentalls Heb. 6. and every one that will be saved is bound to prove his Faith and his Baptisme true Mark 16.16 he that beleeveth and is baptised shall be saved We Quere how a Baptismes or 2 Great Seals can be true in the Kingdome of Christ Jesus any more then 2 Great Seales can be true in the Kingdome of England And whether a Christian Commission Pattent Pardon Writ can be truly seal'd as is maintained from Rome any more then a civill Commission Pattent Pardon or Writ can be truly Sealed at Oxford To insist upon a late instance since the Bishops power and Calling is condemned as Antichristian how can we evidence the Seale of Baptisme true which we have received from them Furthermore since a true Baptisme giveth Right to all the Ordinances of Christ Jesus we Querie how any Protestant or Papist whose Baptisme you acknowledge to be true can be denied Communion in the Supper also according to 1 Cor. 12.12 By one spirit are we all baptized into one body and consequently into the participation of the Ordinances therof and if so we Querie how farre off Rome and the Pope himselfe is from our bosomes QUERIE XII Since you both professe to want more Light and that a greater Light is yet to be expected yea that the Church of Scotland may yet have need of a greater Reformation c. we Querie how you can professe and Sweare to Persecute all others as Schismatiques Hereticks c. that beleeve they see a further Light and dare not joyn with either of your Churches Whether the Lambes Wife have received any such Commission or Disposition from the Lamb her Husband so to practise Whether as King JAMES once wrote upon Re. 20. it be not a true mark and character of a false Church to Persecute It being the nature only of a Wolf to hunt the Lambs and Sheep but impossible for a Lamb or Sheep or a thousand Flocks of Sheep to persecute one Wolfe we speak of spirituall Sheep and spirituall Wolves for other VVolves against the Civil State VVe professe it to be the Dutie of the Civill State to persecute and suppresse them And lastly whether the States of Holland who tollerate though not owne as you say the several Sects amongst them which differ from them The States of Holland in permitting other consciences obey the Command of Christ of permitting the Tares are of another conscience worishp whether or no they com not neerer the holy Pattern commād of the Lord Jesus to permit the tares to have a civill being in the field of the world untill the harvest the end of it Mat. 13 VVhether those tares can possibly be taken for Hipocrites in the Church or Scandalous persons in the Common weal but are most properly false worshippers and in especiall and punctually intended by the Lord Jesus Antichristians the Children of the wicked one opposite to the true Christians the Children of the Kingdome VVhether for this very Truth which those States professe Noctate for the time bath been blest by God as that to admiration beyond either England or Scotland it hath not pleased the Lord to prosper the State above any other State in the word for the time since such their wise Permission Whether there can possibly be expected the least look of Peace in these fatall Distractions and Tempests raised but by taking Councel of the great and wisest Polititian that ever was the Lord Jesus Christ in this particular VVe know the Allegations against this Councell the head of all is that from Moses not Christ his Pattern in the typicall Land of Canaan the Kings of Israel and Iudah c. The danger and mischiefe of bringing Moses his Pattern into Kingdomes now since Christ Iesus his comming We humbly desire it may be searched into we beleeve it wil be found but one of Moses shadows vanished at the comming of the Lord Jesus yet such a shadow as is directly opposite to the very Testament and coming of the Lord Jesus Opposite to the very nature of a Christian Church the only holy Nation and Israel of God Opposite to the very tender Bowels of Humanity how much more of Christianity abhorring to poure out the blood of Men meerly for their Soules beliefe and worship Opposite to the very Essentialls and Fundamentalls of the Nature of a Civill Magistracie a Civil Common-weal or combination of Men which can only respect civill things Opposite to the Jewes Conversion to Christ by not permitting them a civill life or being Opposite to the civill Peace and the lives of Millions slaughter'd upon this ground in mutuall persecuting each others Conscience especially the Protestant and the Papist Opposite to the Souls of all Men who by persecutions are ravished into a dissembled Worship which their Hearts imbrace not Opposite to the best of Gods servants who in all Popish and Protestant States have been commonly esteemed and persecuted as the only Schismaticks Hereticks c. Opposite to that Light of Scripture which is expected yet to shine which must by that Doctrine be supprest as a new or old Heresie or Noveltie All this in all Ages experience testifies which never saw any long liv'd Fruit of Peace or Righteousnesse to grow upon that fatall Tree FINIS Errata Pag 6. line 13. dele Peter p. 9. l. 12. r. yeares since l. 26 r. have not been