the matter thou undertakes to vindicate for as to the appointment or at least approvement of God concerning the sanctuary tabernacle temple and synagogues we do not deny but Christ is come the fulfiller of all figures and he saith neither at Jerusalem nor at this mountain shall men worship the Father but the true worshippers shall worship him in spirit and truth and thou sayest it was but the ceremonial part that was abolished but thou may know that it was the very place in which their worship was performed in that dispensation for Christ said concerning the temple that there should not be left one stone upon another which should not be thrown down which thing came to passe so that the place once appointed of God was thrown down and he did not command that it should be set up again for a place of worship and the true worshippers that followed Christ they worshipped in the spirit and they was not bound to time place or person but as they was ordered in the spirit so they was instant to serve God and worship him without regarding either pâ—ace or time so that it may be understood that there was never any particular place appointed or approved of God since that time as a place set apart onely for a place of worship and as for those places which are now called Churches they were never set apart by divine appointment for any such service as is practised in them and therefore the hearts of such as waits to be revived and comforted with the refreshings of Gods presence must turn away from them and turn to the light of Christ within where the streams of life runs sweetly for God is no other way known in that place which thou would have to be a Church nor in that worship which is there observed but by manifesting himself against them and when thou comes to be truly awakned in thy conscience thou wilt know that neither thy Church worship or ministry are either appointed approved or ordained of God Thou sayest do you count it your priviledge your perfection to throw off Gods publick ordinances with an admiration of your silent and dumb congregations in private must it not needs argue saidst thou a very sleepy not to say a benummed and besotted conscience thus to throw away the wholesome milk of the word in a disdainful pet and yet never complain of the hunger and thirst of your souls Answ Our priviledge and perfection is in Christ whom God hath ordained to be our salvation and he gives us the milk of his word and feeds us with meat in due season and that is our food in silence by which we are kept fresh and living unto God whilest all false worshippers are asleep in the first Adam and benummed and besotted in the earthly nature where they have no sense nor feeling of the virtuous springs and our tongues are not our own nor our wills at liberty and yet the Gospel is unto us committed and in the word of life we publish the glad tydings of it and though we do not speak words yet we feel the presence of God with us and that satisfies our hunger and refreshes our thirst and he answers all our complainings in secret but thou wouldst have us complain to such as thee and to buy thy words for food and to receive them for satisfaction which we turn away from knowing it is but a dry brest in which there is no vertue at all Thou saist a Quaker once told thee he got more good by their silent meetings then ever he got by hearing the Ministers in publick Answ As to thy publick Ministery his words might be true yet who are sent of God and preaches the Gospel of God we do get much good by their publick Ministery for thereby we are informed into the life and power of God which in silent waiting upon him we taste and feel and all our fresh springs are in him Thou seist God ordains not our immediate addresse to Heaven we must live by faith and not by vision but he commands us to use ordinary means Answ God doth ordain our immediate addresse to heaven and that in the work of our faith and we live by it and have the holy visions of God opened in it and by this means we find comfort to our souls and whether would thou have people to make their addresse if not to Heaven would thou not have them addresse themselves upto Christ and is not Christ in Heaven and what faith would thou have them to live by and what means would thou have them to use if they must not addresse themselves to Heaven for true faith and means goes to Heaven and all that lives by the faith â—f â—he Son of God and uses those means that he appoints them 〈◊〉 aâ—dresse 〈◊〉 selves immediately to heaven and in all their distresses and afflictions they finde grace to help them in their need â—nd by this faith we live in the power of an endlesse life Thou sayest well however Sampsons foxes may have their heads looking divers ways yet they are joyned together with firebrands in their tails and howsoever those that desert the publick means may tend some of them to prophanenesse others to a schismatical not to say an heretical separation many heresies going currently for new lights yet sayest thou this is the firebrand or rather the Devils dead coal Answ We are gathered in the unity of the Spirit of God in which our faces are turned Sion-ward and looks all one way and after the manner which thou calls heresie so worship we the God of our Fathers and thy words belongs to thy self and the sons of Adam in the fall who are looking some to one thing and some to another and yet the firebrand joyns your tails with which you would burn up the fruitful field and consume Gods heritage from the earth and this is a coal of Cains nature which the Devil blows up sometimes into a heat and sometimes into a flame and so thou may read the next Chapter which is the third to be thy own state in which thou speaks of Cains going forth from the presence of the Lord and sayest They which voluntarily leave Gods instituted worship and his commanded ordinances put themselves into a wandering condition Answ Yes they do so and therefore it must needs follow that they that forsakes the will worships and vain worships and comes to Gods instituted worship in his Spirit that they come into a stayed and settled condition and so it is thou and old Adam sons in the fall that are in Cains countrey sometimes wandring after one invention sometimes after another and this is your worship which God never instituted but the children of light are in covenant with God and rests in peace In the fourth Chapter thou sayest the sons of men which are of a mixt nature partly spirit and partly body are by their very being determined both to time and place in their rendring
actual worship unto God Answ The mixture is in the fall but who are regenerated and born again they live in the spirit and knows both time and place to render actual worship unto God in the order of his spirit and yet are not determined to time or place by limittation Thou saist if the God of this world would have all Professours enjoy a total immunity from the Law of God and all manner of licentiousnesse allowed without check of conscience let him then make an every day Sabbath Answ Christ is Lord of the Sabbath and Christians enjoyes an every day Sabbath in Christ of whom the Jewes Sabbath was a figure and they are in his righteousnesse and doth not allow any licentiousnesse for their rest is holy and they lie down in it without check of conscience Thou saist publick worship speaks a joint concurrence of several worshippers for the performance of the same action of religious worship so that the very light of nature saist thou gives it clear suffrage for the necessity of convenient places of meeting for the performance of the publick worship and service of God Answ Christians do jointly concur in the spirit in which they have unity and that in the same action of religious worship but Apostates cannot do so and though they meet together in one place yet not having unity in the spirit they cannot jointly concurre in the woiship of God and so the place and worship which thou calls publick being set up in the apostasie and not after Christ the Christians cannot own them for light and darknesse hath no communion together Thou saist is not this to cry up inward light and yet plainly to live in darknesse Answ This is to cry up inward light and to live in it and therefore it is that we deny all false worships which is set up and practised in the darknesse Thou saist I have neither faith to believe nor any reason to see that there is any Separated I adde and Consecrated places for divine worship any such legal or ceremonial kind of holinesse which renders duties performed there more acceptable unto God then if performed by the same persons and in the like manner in any other places Answ Thou hast all this while been pleading for that separated place to be the Church and hast been holding forth a special presence of God in that worship which is there performed and now thou saith that duties performed there are no more acceptable unto God then if performed in any other places and if thou have neither faith to believe it nor reason to see it as thou saist then thou might have spared thy pains in writing thy Book for thy chief aim is to bring people to conform to the worship there observed as the worship of God in his Church which if duties be no more acceptable unto God which is there performed then if performed in any other place then such as withdrawes from it may perform duties as acceptable unto God in other places according to thy own faith and reason so it is not a true Church nor a true worship for the worship and duties performed in the true Church which is in God are only accepted of God and in no other place or places whatsoever and here thou hast pulled down thy own building with thy own hands Thou saist here then arises that ample provision that Christ hath made for his special presence in the places of religious worship viz. from the Communion of Saints meeting in convenient separated places for publick worship and from the promise annexed thereto and not from any peculiar holinesse in those places where they thus meet to worship God Answ The Communion of Saints is in the light of Christ and so saith John If we walk in the light as he is in the light then have we fellowship one with another and this is not the state of Adam in the fall neither can his Sonnes and Daughters perform a religious worship unto God and so no Church either by Communion of Saints or the place it self and therefore such worshippers have not the promise annexed In the fifth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the special presence of God in publick worship by his Train or Retinue of Angels to which I answer generally Answ That God is present in his publick worship which is performed in his spirit was never yet denied by us but thou hast not proved thy worship to be the worship of God and therefore we say that Gods presence is not in it to the comfort of the worshipper and this may answer all thy Jumblings about the Angels for thou art not come to the Angelical Ministration In the sixth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the practical inferences drawn from the presence of angels in the places of publick worship Answ When he bringeth forth his only-begotten Son into the world he saith and let all the angels of God worship him and this is a full answer to this whole Chapter In the seventh Chapter thou seems to hold forth Gods presence in publick worship by his word with some other particulars relating to that matter which I might mention and answer if I did intend largenesse but finding the whole matter of thy Book to lye chiefly as to Church worship ministry and practice as they generally now stand I shall not make needlesse repetitions by answering the same thing over and over yet this I say unto this Chapter that Gods presence by his word is in his worship and all that worship him aright he teaches them by his word but that thy preaching is the word of God or that the word of God is in thy preaching or his presence by his word in that publick worship through they preaching that thou hast not any where proved and therefore it falls of it self In the eighth Chapter thou seems to hold forth practical inferences that teachers of the word must not corrupt the word of God and that it must be owned as Gods word and received and mingled with faith and practised in obedience Answ I answer generally that they who are born of the word which is immortal they do not corrupt it but are true and faithfull ministers of it and many have received it as it is indeed the word of God and they mingle it with faith and practises it in obedience and such are doers of the word and are blessed but thy tongue must learn silence and thou must know a new birth and a new tongue before thou can truly minister the word of God In the ninth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the presence of God in his worship by his ministers and that the truths of God must be heard though from ungodly preachers and that ministers are Gods Embassadours and stewards of the mysteries of God and that God and man works together in the conversion of souls and production of saving faith Ans Thou said even now that teachers of the word must not corrupt the
word then how can an ungodly man preach it and not corrupt it and this matter being reduced out of thy general terms and stated particularly into such as it doth properly belong then we can truly say that Gods presence is in his worship by his ministers and that they are his Embassadours and Stewards of his mysteries but we dare not say that so it is with ungodly men or that the ministry of ungodly men doth work to the conversion of souls or production of saving faith Some few particulars of this Chapter I shall answer Thou sayest it is so certain a truth that if the minister be bad yet if he preach the pure word of God we must receive the word because we are not so much to regard the man preaching as the word preached Answ No lye is of the truth for it is as possible that the East and West should joyn together as for a bad man or an ungodly man to preach the pure word of God for God doth not make use of such men to be his Embassadours or Stewards neither can such work together with God in any service for him because it is inconsistent with the pure nature of God to be a co-worker with an ungodly man for an ungodly man is against God and God is against all his ungodlinesse and these cannot possibly work together in man being that they are contrary in nature one to the other and yet thou fears not to go about to prove this ungodly assertion from the ministry of Iudas and saith that of all of them Christ said he that receiveth you receiveth me and yet one of them was Iudas Iscariot who also betrayed him Then thou sayest we may plainly see by Christs own words we may receive Christ by the ministry of Judas a traytor nay sayest thou I might say a Devil Answ Thou art gotten into high prophanenesse for when Iudas was sent forth with the rest he had part in the ministry but when treacherous thoughts did rise in him and that the Devil stirred him up to act his treachery he was never a minister of Christ after that and it may be read in the first of Acts where the Disciples prayed and said shew which of these two thou hast chosen that he may take part of this minisâ—â—y and Apostleship from which Iudas by transgression fell mark it and consider thy assertion Thou saist that every Saint should have their garments died white in the bloud of the Lamb much more Christs Stewards they should be cloathed with the white robes of sincerity to act unfeignedly for God Answ These are only words as if one proud man should bid another be humble or one drunkard bid another be sober and tell them it should be so but view thy self and the rest which thou looks upon to be stewards and see if thou can find it so indeed and if not then you are not as you should be by thy own confession and if Christs Stewards should have their garments so died then surely no bad man or ungodly man can stand in that office neither is it possible that any such should act unfeignedly for God but who are his Stewards indeed through the sanctification of the Spirit they are cloathed with his righteousnesse and are approved in his sight In the tenth Chapter thou seems to hold forth practical deductions from Gods presence with his ministers and saith God is affronted by any indignities that are offered to his ministers and how can any have so impudent a face sayest thou as to pretend they are sent of God who makes railing and reviling of others to be their work Answ This is the work which thou art found to be in who calls the ministration of the Spirit canting language and Christs Ministers Foxes and Hereticks which surely are great indignities and in the highest manner of railing and reviling by which thy practical deduction is found to be out of Gods presence and railing and reviling of others were never our work though we do give righteous judgement against the Seed of the evil doer In the eleventh Chapter thou seems to hold forth Gods presence in his worship by the holy spirit and saist the word and the spirit goes together and thou saist thou shall begin with the Evangelical Prophet Isaiah As for me this is my Covenant with them saith the Lord my spirit which is upon thee and my words which I have put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy Seed nor out of the mouth of thy Seeds Seed saith the Lord from henceforth and for ever Answ This was the word of the Lord unto the Prophet and he had the spirit in the word my spirit which is upon thee mark here was the spirit upon him and the word spake in the spirit and the word put words into his mouth mark again and the word said my words shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy Seed mark again the word was in the Seed and was not to depart out of the mouth of the Seed nor out of the mouth of the Seeds Seed from henceforth and for ever saith the Lord and this is the word that lives and abides for ever and it is in the mouth of the Seed and from the Seed are the words of the word spoken and there is the true ministry if thou hast an ear to hear and here is the word and the spirit joined together which is the word of the Gospel that we preach Thou saist all Gods children shall be clearly taught by the spirit of God Answ Then is man laid wholly aside in that work and why art thou so offended at silent meetings when thou saist all Gods children shall be clearly taught by his spirit and if clearly then it doth not admit of any conjunction in its teaching Thou saist mans preaching may fill the head full of notions but the spirits teacbings must fill the heart with real motions of grace and goodnesse towards God Answ Then let all flesh be silent that notions may die and wither and that the heart may come to be exercised towards God in his spirit and then people will not be alwaies learning as now they are amongst notions but will come to the knowledge of the truth in the spirit and so come to the joy of Gods salvation Thou saist take a Christian without faith and you unchristian him Answ Every true Christian lives in the faith and therefore cannot be taken without it and so cannot be unchristianed as being without it In the twelfth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the spirits teaching five wayes 1. by removing impediments 2. by suggesting Gospel truths to the soul 3. by enlightening the mind 4. by strengthning the soul 5. by raising truths Ans Thou art quite beside the matter for these particulars do not so belong to the spirits teaching as to its working only the third particular is as to its
manifestation for to remove suggest strengthen and raise is a work of the spirit but the teachings of the spirit is in checking reproving and convincing and as the obedience is yielded to it so it teaches to deny the evil which it doth convince of and reprove for and teaches to live in that which is good that comes from God and so it teaches to deny ungodlinesse and teaches to live soberly mark it well Thou saist concerning the enlightning of the mind that all the lights in the world is never able to make us see divine truths savingly till we are enlightned of the Lord. Answ Then why art thou contending against the light of the Lord seeing thou saist that none can see divine truth savingly till they be enlightned by him would thou keep people from that which will let them see divine truths but divine truths may be seen in the light and yet not savingly for salvation is not in the sight of truth but in the union with it for there may be much seen to be truth and yet the error not forsaken Thou saist none are truely enlightned but those that are in Christ Answ The light of Christ doth enlighten every one that comes into the world and yet every one that comes into the world is not in Christ but as the light which is manifest from Christ is obeyed so it worketh death upon the old man and raise up life and immortality and regenerates man into the nature of it where he becomes a new creature in Christ and is light in the Lord. Thou sayest There is no true light that leads to salvation but what comes from Christ the Son of righteousnesse Answ Then to preach that light is neither canting nor delusion as thou had termed it for it is the light which comes from Christ the Sun of righteousnesse which we preach and we know that there is not another name given under heaven by which any can be saved Thou sayest let others therefore sit down and embrace that so much mired darling of an inward natural yet saving light in all we know saist thou that it is but a changeling and not the genuine off-spring of the spirit Answ Thou hast said no light for salvation but from Christ and now saith the light within is a changeling and this is not agreeable with the Apostles doctrine who said the light that shines in our hearts gives us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus and thou cryes inward natural yet saving light in all and that it is but a changeling but we say the inward natural as it is of man is not saving to any but the inward spiritual light as it comes from the nature of Christ is saving to all that believe in it but the condemnation of such as believe not and therefore we say that the light of Christ within is not a changeling but the Alpha and Omega yesterday and to day and the same for ever In the thirteenth Chapter thou seems to hold forth the qualification of the spirits teachings by teaching fully pleasantly seasonably certainly and profitably and that it brings in no new lights objective and thou saist what makes souls to quit their comforts in this life their friends their estates their liberties yea their lives themselves rather then part with those truths the spirit hath taught them Answ Why this is the reason that makes them do all those things because they love Christ more then all and prizes the truth which he hath taught them more then all the world but that thou art of the number of those that are so given up to God and loves his truth doth not any way appear for thou enjoyes thy friends thy estate and liberty and life thou hast fulnesse and art at ease thou art not come to travel in hunger and cold and perils to make known the glad tydings of the Gospel thou art not in bonds and prisons for the truth of God and the testimony of a good conscience these things comes not near unto thee but thou art reviling the innocent who have received the teachings of Gods spirit and loves the truth above all the world or the enjoyments of it for which cause we suffer as to our libertie and estates and our lives are in jeopardy yet in the comfort of truth we have our rejoycing though thou adde afflictions to our sufferings Thou saist we have no foundation for such gradual teachings as to expect the spirit should teach more truths afterwards then are written in the word of God Answ The spirit of God is not limitted as to what may or may not be in mans expectation for God manifests the truth by his spirit according to his own pleasure and in his own time and the spirit opens the Scripture in fulfilling of them and also manifests the mind of God in what he will further reveal and make known Thou saist though the spirit teaches in the word that there can be no absolute perfection in this life telling us in the words of S. John that if we say we have no sin c. and yet saist thou the spirit teaches the soul gradually to breathe after perfection Answ The word and the spirit is perfect and all born of the spirit are perfect and the words of John in that Scripture doth not relate to the birth born of God for when he comes to speak of that birth he saith whosoever is born of God sinneth not c. and that which sinneth not is perfect and what good doth thy ministry if thou do not bring people to that which is perfect or where would thou have people to be perfect if they die imperfect surely thy message is sad to that which breathes after perfection and thou hast not received the gift from Christ which is for perfecting of the Saints and so thou art teaching another doctrine then the true Ministers teaches who labours that they may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus I now come to thy last Chapter wherein thou seems to hold forth practical deduction from Gods presence by his spirit and thou saist coming unto God in a way that God never owned nor prescribed is a direct turning away from him Answ Christ is the way unto the Father and there is none can come unto him by any other and they that walk in this way are preserved 〈◊〉 all by paths but they that walks in their own way they turn directly from God and if thou truly try thy self thou may find it so to be with thee Thou saist Gods Spirit teaches none to continue in the practice of known sins he doth not allow them to sin and then teach them that is to be spiritual to deem nothing sin that we possibly can commit Answ The Spirit of God teaches to deny all sin and all that obeys the Spirit they come to the Crosse which crucifies to the death the sinning nature and so brings into righteousnesse and
holinesse of life for the birth of the spirit sinneth not neither doth the birth of the flesh work righteousnesse and so he that commits sin is of the devil and doth not yield himself a servant to the Spirit of God Thou saist he that is taught by the Spirit by that knowledge is carried out to purifie himself and that the office of the Spirit is to sanctifie the soul impurity of life saist thou is no livery for the disciple of Christ to wear Answ He that purifies himself from sin by the power of the Spirit he doth not live in sin and he that doth not live in sin is perfect but thy livery hath not the shew of a true disciple of Christ but the children of light are cloathed with his righteousnesse and follows him in the daily Crosse Thou saist we may hear how excellent a thing it is to hear no ministers at all but to sit still in silence and to expect heavenly raptures as if all were possessed with a dumb devil Answ We hear Christs ministers and yet are taught of God to wait upon him in silence where we feel his presence with joy and are gathered into the heavenly raptures of peace and blessednesse but thy tongue is unbridled by which we know whaâ— is at liberty in thee who shoots thy arrows against the righteous Thou saist the martyrs that submitted their necks to the block and their bodies to the flames yet never suffered for those things which thâ—sâ—â—bstinately mâ—â—â—tain who have fâ—llen from hearing the word and hâ—ve left the oâ—â—â—nanâ—es which we hâ—ve good ground saist thou from the word of God 〈◊〉 braâ—d as eâ—roâ—â—â— and grosse delusions Answ The martyrs of Jesus havâ— ever suffered for his names sake for they have always â—ad a sâ—re testimony in the truth against all deceit and false worshâ—â— for which they suffered and for the same and no other thing do â—â—bâ—nds and afflictions betide us this day so that we have good ground to brand the persecuting spirit as a spirit of errour and grosse delusion Thou saist that they that are taught of the Spirit of God are taught love both to God and men they then love God for himself and men for Gods sake t is true saist thou love not envy nor malice nor reviling nor hatred nor backbiting and slandering others that are not just of our opinion that is the fruit of the Spirit of God Answ Then behold from what spirit thy fruit is made manifest for thy own work bears witnesse against thee that thou art not in the love of God without which none can truly love him nor men for his sake for thou that calls the light of Christ within delusion thou loves not God and thou that would have men hunted and taken and destroyed thou dost not love them but art in envy and hatred and malice against them and thou that calls them foxes and hereticks thou rails and reviles them and all this because they are not just of thy opinion but we are in the love of God and have fervent love to him and one another and we do pity all people that abides in darknesse and though by such we be evil intreated yet we cannot render evil for evil but overcomes the evil with good and herein we bear good will to all men as our lives do sufficiently manifest and so having briefly cleared the truth and the innocent I shall shut thee up in thy own conclusion desiring that thou henceforth may be warned and do so no more for certainly the hand of the Lord hath dealt gently with thee and his love hath covered a multitude of faults and for what thou hast done amisse I desire thou may be truly humbled before the Lord for it and come to repentance that he may pardon it and remit it who still waits that he may be gracious and herein my love is to thy soul though I have borne a clear testimony against thy spirit and in the power of God do judge it and condemn it and shakes it off as a wanderer in the earth and so in the seed immortal of God I go over it for the Lamb reigns in his dominion and the glory is his for ever W. S. THE END Some few faults escaped the Reader is desired to correct pag. 9. line 19 read of after out p. 11. l. 22. for them r. then p. 12. â—2 for narive r. native l. 26. read swift for swft