Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	true_a	worship_n	worship_v	7,455	5	9.1341	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B09776	The Anabaptists meribah: or, VVaters of strife. Being a reply to a late insulting pamphlet, written by Thomas Lamb, merchant, intitulled, Truth prevailing against the fiercest opposition; or, An answer to Mr. John Goodwins Water-dipping, no firm footing for church-communion. Wherein the impertinency of M. Lamb's answer, and the validity of M. Goodwin's Water-dipping, &c. are manifested by I. Price a member of the Church of Christ, whereof the said Mr. Goodwin is pastor.	Price, J., fl. 1656.	1656 (1656)	Wing P3332A; ESTC R182056	87,699	107

which you say he hath after used of such splashy Reply shallow watry thin and barren argumentation either pro or con than the writing of seven such boo●s as this is which we now implead You speak much of your findings but if you have found any such place in all his writings namely where he hath denyed that true proper and natural consequences from granted premises in the Scripture are not to be admitted as the truths of God I believe you may rejoyce in it and eat the morsells thereof your self alone having no partner with you therein in any part of the world whereof the Sun in the firmament is Overseer But this is onely to give Mr. Goodwin a running-rap but you could not reach him You procee 8. Mr. Lamb. I found the unregenerate world naturally falling in with childrens baptism which is a shrewd sign is a de●ice of her own the world loveth her own c. SECT XLVIII YOU finde the unregenerate world no more naturally falling in with childrens baptism Reply then you found it naturally falling in with the profession of Christ For they are baptized and do baptize their children in no other name nor into the profession of any other Saviour then Jesus Christ And is not this a shrewd argument that this Doctrine of the Messiah the unregenerate world so naturally falleth in withall is a device of her own the world doth love her own Your 9th particular is summ'd up in this Mr. Lamb. infant-Baptism is unlawfull because baptism being the initiating Ordinance into the Church it letteth in a sort of Members which the New-Testament knoweth not namely such as cannot worship God inspirit God now seeking onely such to worship him The whole bedy must be fitly framed together and every part must effectually work And can these things be affirmed of children SECT XLIX First you affirm that baptism is the innitiating Ordinance into the Church I suppose you mean not the Church generall but dejure it is the initrating Ordinance into particular Churches If that be your meaning Baptism not proved to be the initiating Ordinance into Church-fellowship this then is such a conclusion as you can hardly make good no not by any ifs may-bee's and why-nots gatherable from any place or places in the Holy Scriptures that is to say that baptism did make any person ipsosacto a member of any particular Church But it is proveable that many and many were baptized of whom it is impossible to prove that by baptism or any other way they were ever immembred into any particular Church And it is a difficulty too hard for you or I or any other in the world to undertake namely to prove that all and every particular member of particular Churches were ever baptized at all 2. It is true Gad seeketh such and onely such now to worship him as can worship him in spirit and in truth Iohn 4.23 that is as I conceive according to the context Now the time of reformation approacheth God will be worshipped and obeyed neither in the Iudaicall rites consisting in external performances as some among you so much contend for nor according to the Samaritans false worship who worshipped their Idol Gods together with God 2 King 17.26 27 28 29. but in a pure spirituall manner extending to the very heart such as was typified by those shaddows and the Son of God comes now to draw all men unto this way of worship from the Iudaicall from the Samaritan way This text indeed with severall others renders men uncapable of Church-worship in an acceptable manner that content themselves only with outward forms and yet leading a vitious life But what is this to the exclusion of children As for them here is the grace of the Gospell that he accepteth of little children and would not have men forbidden as you do to bring them to Christ He accepteth according to what any person hath and not according to what he hath not 3. Again God was alwayes a spirit as well as now and he did alwayes seek for such to worship him as should worship him in spirit and in truth as well as now He alwaies loved-truth in the inward parts he alwayes required of all his Sons to give him their hearts in his worship he alwayes commanded the Jews to love the Lord their God with all their hearts and minds and soul and strength Did this under the Law any way hinder that children might not be admitted members of the Iewish Church because they could not perform inward heart-worship and spirituall service did God upon their circumcision accept of them as if they did perform all those spirituall services and heart-duties untill they came to an actuall and personall capacity actually and personally to perform the same And will he not now accept of children baptized as if they did actually and personally perform those services unto him which under the Gospell he requireth untill they likewise come to an actuall and personall capacity so to do And then wil he accept or reject them as they are found faithfull or unfaithfull in these things 4. Whereas you say that the New-Testament knoweth us such member of Churches as infants c. I answer that tho I will not say or deny that the New-Testament knoweth not any infant-members of Churches yet the New Testament knoweth and hath taught others also to know that children are due subjects of Baptism And that it never knew not taught any to know where ever they were or ought to be rejected and denyed the participation thereof Our controversie is not about infant-Church-member-ship but infant-baptism Your tenth Argument for your beliefe in the business of Baptism viz. against Infant-Baptisme and for your separation Mr. Lamb. c. is taken from your observation of the righteous hand of God who causeth the sharpest and most able Adversaries to you in this point to let fall such expressions as justifie what they go about to oppose and condemn as Mr. Richard Baxter saith the aged are 1. the most fully capable subiects 2. the most excellent subiects 3. the most eminent subiects 4. of whom Scripture fully speaketh 5. the greater part of the world when Baptism was instituted who were to be partakers of it But on the contrary for infant-baptism he Mr. Baxter acknowledgeth it so dark in the Scripture that the controversie is thereby become not onely hard but so hard c. SECT L. YOU needed indeed to have written this in Capitall Letters that every one that runs may read the profundity thereof Reply The aged are the most capable subjects of Baptisme Ergo Children are no subjects thereof The aged are the most eminent subjects Ergo Children are no subjects Mr. Lambs miserable inferences from Mr. Baxters words the Scripture speaketh fully of them Ergo not at all of Children The aged were the greater part of the world that did partake of Baptisme Ergo Children were no part of the world that did partake

and most judicious Christians the true spirit of God doth not use to compell that is your own word to the Reader the more weak injudicious the milk-sops or babes in Christ as you must give me leave to judg you to be in comparison of those you contend withal viz. Mr Goodwin M Baxter to rise up with that majestick confidence in Mr Lamb a child of under standing in comparison with M Goodwin and Mr Baxter against whom he writes and of their own strength as if they could make the mountains of arguments levied against them to skip like rams and the little hils thereof like lambs in the presence of their even of their mighty pens and parts as if they were able to thrash the mountains and make the hils like chaff before the breath of their mouth and that all difficulties contradictions and the most able strong and fiercest oppositions should be as dust unto their sword and driven stubble unto their bow And my proof should be Rom 12 3 And I say through the grace given unto me to every man that is among you not to think of himself more high●y then he ought but to think soberly according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of Faith and the like Philip. 2 3 Let nothing be one through strife and vain-g ory but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better then themselves The confident and conceited man in doubtful cases hath seldome the truth on his side With the low●● is wisedom grace is given to the humble bashful shame-faced that thrust not themselves into observation The odoriferous Violet grows low to the ground-ward hangs its head downward hides it self with its own leaves and the spirit of God is not a spirit of compulsion in doubtful cases but of illumination But to proceed As pure Conscience at first separated me from that society whereof he Mr Goodwin is Pastor M Lamb to the Reader so now it compelleth me to make Answer to that Book not only to defend the truth cs SECT V. I Think here you speak more true then you are aware Reply Error of judgment often called by the name of purity of conscience for by what light law or rule from Gods Word is that Conscience guided that compelleth men to separate themselves from the societies of the Saints where they have often seen the face of God viz. the light of his countenance received daily and constant refreshings from his presence where the visions of life and immortality have been brought to light where they have had most excellent experience of the presence of Christ in the midst of them and have been rapt up as it were into the third Heavens receiving and partaking of joyes unspeakable and glorious I say where is that Conscience instructed from the Oracles of God to withdraw and separate from such a Church and society of Saints and that meerly because they durst not sinn against the light of their judgments and consciences M Lamb seperated from the Church because they keep in a good conscience because they cannot submit unto such practises as parts of Gods instituted Worship and service whereof they see not the least hint or glimmerings of light in the holy scriptures for their justification because they do that viz baptize their children which they judg themselves bound in conscience to do and forbear to do that viz submit to re-baptization or to be baptized again they supposing themselves baptized already which they believe in their consciences they should offend their Lord and master Jesus Christ if they should do And is not this our very case you cal us holy and be l●veà Brethren of like pretious faith with your selves a Church and yet you are compeld in Conscience to withdraw and separate from us and why not because you question our Saintship Gods love to us our love to God not that you think the effectual grace presence and spirit of God is not with us in our assembling together from day to day not that you think that the truth as it is in Jesus at least in respect of the great things of faith and love is not amongst us or that the blessed endowments and gifts of the spirit are not vouchsafed unto us but meerly because we wil not deny our Insant-baptisme and submit our selves to be baptized again in your way both which we profess in the presence of Almighty God who knoweth our hearts we dare not do as fearing we should offend against his majesty and provoke his Jealousie against us not having as we conceive upon serious perusal of his holy Word and several mens writings of piety ability of different apprehensions in the subject in hand the very least ground of the truth to justifie our selves if we should do so And we likewise call Heaven and Earth to record that in the study of these things we have renounced all hidden things of dishonesty all carnal and worldly considerations byassing us in the least herein as if it were to avoid the cross or to share with any earthly interest which steers us in our Judgment or practise and that it would be a vision of much peace satisfaction and contentment unto us if we ate out of the way to be better instructed and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who is blessed for ever more The Church frō which M. Lamb seperated could allow him his liberty in the business of baptism but he wil not allow them theirs knoweth that we lye not This is our case we that are the greater part of the Church by many degrees can bear with you and permit you to enjoy your own liberty but you cannot bear with us but have rent and torn your self from us and entitle the same unto the Word of God as justifying you therein These we shal examine when we come to your allegations of those Texts urged by you having already perused them again and again and the third time also and see not the least breathings of the spirit of God therein for your justification in your separation We find the great Apostle Paul in his writing to Churches cals them The beloved of God called to be Saints to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus Mr Lambs sepeperation against the current of the scriptures to the Saints in Achaia to the Saints at Ephesus to the Saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi to the Saints and faithfull Brethren in Christ at Coll●sse I say we find the Apostle writing to these provokes them to love to good works to edifie one another to frequent the assembling of themselves together to bear with one another in love to watch over one another to be knit together in love to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace to take heed of rents divisions and separation● one from another c You judg us or else why have you written us the beloved of God a Church of

Goodwins eigth consideration is summarily what you have said viz. that withdrawing upon this account is a Schismaticall practise and a Sin of a high nature To this you answer first Scripture schism is a sin but that 's not your schism your schism is commanded not prohibited in Scripture But by your favour it is sub judice and every mans cause is right in his own eyes and your separation hath been sufficiently argued and proved to be such a sin as requires your repentance and reformation whether you see it or no. But say you Shew us a rule from Christ to gather Churches without baptism then our mouth will be stopt I reply What is this to infant baptism what to dipping the Church from whom you have separated was and is a baptized Church 2. Shew us where in all the Scriptures baptism is made an essential part of Church-fellowship sure I am in respect of Scripture evidence you are here as mute as fishes 2. You add VVhy should our separating from you be sinfull in us any more than your separating from Parish-Churches sinfull in you This we have already answered Sect. 52. You add You say 3. As the fatall apostacie from the pure Ordinances of Christ and primitive worship was graduall so is the recovery of the primitive purity gradual also c. This is nothing to the consideration and therefore I have nothing to say unto it Mr. Goodwins nineth consideration that baptism with water is but a ca●●all ceremony so acknowledged by one of the gravest Authors of the Antipcedo baptistical saith and therefore it ought not to make a partition-wall between the godly party of believers c. To this you say 1. That though the said Author calleth it a carnall ceremony yet the Holy Scriptures have not so styled it SECT LXIV SUppose the Scriptures have not so called them are they not so● Is water any thing else but an outward thing is it a spirituall thing Is dipping washing sprinckling spiritual or carnal actings was there any need that the Scripture should teach believers such things as these 2. You say Mr. ● calleth it a carnal ceremony onely in respect of the outward act not in respect of the spirituall design No more doth Mr. Goodwin or any other man and all the ceremonies of the Law were of the same nature had not they a spiritual design of God in them 3. You give us for your third answer what you do believe concerning its giving a man right unto Church communion Well I know your faith in this point but what is this to the consideration propounded Mr. Goodwin tenth consideration is thus Ignorance in some things among the Saints appertaining to the knowledge of God and Christ rend●e●h them not unclean one unto another nor is it a just ground of dividing one from another c. To this you grant that ignorance in many things of that nature is no ground of separation of m●n from Churches but ignorance in this point viz. of baptism is such as it just●f●eth such a separation because say you I have proved that for unbaptized persons to joyne in Church-fellowship is disorderly First you talk apace of your proving that which was yet never done and thereby prove indeed your own confidence but not hing else 2. You have said nothing in this kind but you have had better proof to the contrary than you brought with you SECT LXV 11. Consideration tendred by M. Goodwin Baptism is no constituting principle of a true Church therefore separation upon the account of this or that manner of baptizing is not warrantable there being nothing but suppose a mistake about it c. To this you say again you have proved it but where who can tell Mr. Goodwins 12th consideration is to this purpose That the Scriptures making mention of persons that are unmeet for Church-fellowship or christian communion they mention fornicators covetous idolaters railers drunkards extortioners disorderly walkers but never persons of a holy and blameless conversation whether baptized or unbaptized c. You answer 1. Paul writ to Churches who were all baptized 1 Cor. 12.13 he saith we are all baptized c. SECT LXVI BRother take heed of handling the word of God deceitfully where doth the Scripture say we are all baptized with water it is true it saith we are all baptized by one spirit into one body take heed of Legerdemain in the things of God is this good arguing we are all baptized by one spirit ergo we are all baptized with water I confess it is an inference of the same kind and kin as it were of the same flesh blood and bones as severall the rest of your inferences are Do we deny that any believer mentioned in the Scriptures as members of Churches were not baptized with the Spirit Do not you judge your holy and beloved brethren c. baptized with the spirit though not baptized as you count baptism 2. What if it be granted that they were all baptized would Paul have them rejected in case they were holy and worthy men and durst not be baptized for fear of offending God their consciences being weak in that point for want of light would he have reckoned them among fornicators covetous idolaters railers drunkards extortioners You reply I make little doubt but he would I tremble at your saying is this like that sweet and blessed nature of the father of mercies that pardons the ignorances of his people and judgeth of man according to what a man hath and not according to what a man hath not What to number a believer with the vilest of sinners fornicators covetous idolaters railers drunkards extortioners c. and to banish him with them out of his house from his Ordinances and this meerly because that either he will not be dipt and baptized again having in his judgement and conscience been baptized already or because he is ignorant that it is Gods mind it should be so and there durst not Is this consistent with that great love of God professed in Scripture to them that are one in union and fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ But what is your reason of this representation of God 1. Because Christ was so full advising the Disciples to punctuality in point of order 2 Coll. 16. 1 Cor. 14.40 Reply Let us examine your Texts 1 Cor. 14.40 1 Cor. 14.40 2 Coll. 16. Let all things be done decently and in order 2 Coll. 16. Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holy day or of the new moon or of the sabboth dayes ergo children are not to be baptized ergo the manner of baptizing must be by dipping Ergo if persons be not thus baptized and at age they are no more fit to make members of Churches than fornicators covetous idolaters railers drunkards extortioners and evill workers Ergo Iesus Christ was full advising to punctuality in order viz. of baptism I have read of one Orietes that