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A44834 An answer to a declaration put forth by the general consent of the people called Anabaptists in and about the city of London which declaration doth rather seem a begging of pardon of the Caveliers then [sic] a vindication of that truth and cause once contended for : I seeing so much wickedness ... / from a true lover and owner of the people called Quakers ... Richard Hubberthorn. Hubberthorn, Richard, 1628-1662.; Burrough, Edward, 1634-1662. Answer to a declaration of the people called Anabaptists. 1659 (1659) Wing H3218; ESTC R16813 19,429 25

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will not have any Person Tolerated that worships a false god what must be done with their Persons But what difference is there in the Ground or Cause of Toleration between those that Worship a false god or they which Worship the true God in a false way and if the Persons of neither of those should be Tolerated then the Toleration would but reach a little Compasse But who must be Judge of that Blasphemie Contempt or Reproach spoken against the Lord Jesus Christ Was it not Blasphemie in the Apostles dayes for one to say he was a Jew and was not Revelations 2. verse 9. And is it not as great Blasphemy now to say that he is a Christian or a Believer that is not And must not any person be tolerated that speak such works And must not such a Person be tolerated that denies the Scriptures to be the Word of God then it appears they must not be tolerated that faith in the beginning was the Word as John 1.4 Nor that say that Christ is the Word and that the Scriptures are they which testifieth of him as Joh. 5. And if we search out your toleration to the bottom it will be reduced into this compasse That none shall be tolerated but those that say as you say and professe what you professe and you among your selves are as a Kingdom divided that cannot stand and you are not they which are fit to Rule in the Nation to prescribe Liberty nor give Toleration but if you had been of Christs Spirit you would have professed Toleration and not destruction unto all Persons in matters of Religion and then they that have the Gospel of Christ may minister it freely among those that worship a false god and among those that worship the true God ignorantly and minister it among the Papists Episcopal Presbyterie Heathens Turks and Pagans which are all out of the way and so to convince the gain-sayers so that all the wicked impositions cruelty Persecution and killing one another about Religion would cease and then the Gospel of Peace which is the power of God would Rule over deceit and Truth and Righteousness would increase and spread over the Nations but you have appeared to be of a Spirit of Confusion and Contradiction for when you have spoken against Tolerating the Persons before mentioned Yet you say in Contradiction to it you are not against Tolerating Episcopacie Presbyterie or any stinted Form provided they do not Compel any others to a Compliance therewith or Conformitie thereunto c. Now consider and let even your own foolishness correct you Is not the Papists which ye have excepted against a stinted Form And are not those that worship a false god a stinted Form And are not the Sadduces that deny that there is either God Christ Angel Resurrection or Spirit a stinted Form And is not the Jewes a stinted Form although they speak contempteously of the Lord Jesus Christ which before you have said you will not Tolerate their Persons because they speak contempteously of the Lord Jesus Christ and now you say you will Tolerate because they are a stinted Form How must the Jewes be Converted who have spoken contempteously and reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ calling him a Deceiver a Blasphemer and that he ●ad a Devil seeing you will not Tolerate their Persons until they be Converted And how shall the Heathens that worship false gods be Converted seeing their Persons must not be Tolerated And what must be done with those many hundreds of Congregations in England which worship God in the Spirit and yet do deny the Scriptures as Words and Writings of the Old and New Testament to be the Word of God but do confesse them to be a Testimony of the word and of him who is the Beginning and End of the Words in whom and by whom they all come to be fulfilled to the Saints What must their Persons be done with seeing they must not be Tolerated But you may say That those things was spoken in your haste or at least in your fear whereby you were surprized in the Vproar of the rude Boyes and Apprentices of London but a little fear entering into the Hypocrisie doth try your Spirits and cause you to bring forth the intents of your hearts as in your Paper is manifest To the Last you say Forasmuch as we are Charged to Murder and Destroy those that Differ from us in matters of RELIGION We do not only abhor and detest it as a cursed practice but we hope have approved our selves both in this City and the Nation to the contrary notwithstanding the great provocation of some who have endeavoured our Ruine For that we desire is just liberty to men as men that every man may be preserved in his own just rights and that Christians may be preserved as Christians though of different Apprehensions in some things of Religion in the prosecution whereof our lives shall not be dear unto us when we are thereunto lawfully called The Designs of our Adversaries in these Calumnies are to mis-represent us to some People fearing God and also to incense the rude Multitude against us purposely to provoke them if possible to destroy us Answ. In what you have before expressed you have more given then taken away the occasion of this Charge against you by your instancing the not Tolerating of such persons before mentioned for if you did as you say desire the just Liberty of men as men then every man without respect to Apprehensions Perswasions or Worships as a man and person should be Tolerated that those who are Christians might inform them of the true God when they worship false gods and hereby you give great occasion unto those that seek occasion from you when you with a general Consent cry against Tolerating the Persons of so many sorts of People about Differing from you in Religion and as for some of them whom ye would accuse as Irregular many by experience can witnesse That neither Weapon nor Tongue formed against them can prosper and the time may come when you may be glad to be upholden with a little of their strength and not to Reject those whom God hath doth and will own for his People in the middest of their Enemies for God hath made them even as Eyes to behold the Spirits of men and the Changings of their wayes and to give them a Reproof in due season when they darken wisdom and confound their matter by words without knowledge in false fears and haste when they are out of Patience and out of Faith in God as the Baptists here have done and the fearful and unbelieving cannot accomplish the Righteousnes of God neither will he bring forth his intended Work by them but such as are of a true Spirit that looks onely at the Glory of God and setting up of his truth who are come to the spiritual weapons doth not wrestle with flesh and blood but with the powers of darkness and with
differ from you and why not to the Quakers is it enough for any man to believe that they are irregular because you say so without any proof or dare you not mention wherein you judge it so least they should disprove you but you say there is not any they have expressed more contradiction to in matters of Religion then against you Answ. That is false for they have more contradicted the common Priests of the Nation as their books and sufferings will witness although they have according to truth contradicted you and also have more of your contradictions and confusions to declare concerning you which is not yet published but what do you account their irregular practises is it because their yea is yea and their nay is nay in all their communications and yours not so or is it because they cannot swear at all or is it because they cannot have any mans person in admiration because of advantage or because they cannot respect the person of the rich nor honour the person of the mighty is it because they do unto others as they would have others to do unto them or because they speak the Truth every one to his neighbour without partialitie or hypocrisie or is it any thing relating to these things above named if not in your next mention in what or else the wise in heart will judge you to speak onely from your imaginary conceit but what is your end in so secret smiting them do you think to excuse your selves by accusing them and who is it that doth charge you with countenancing the Quakers in their practises either Regular or Irregular I know none that hath any ground so to charge you but to men of understanding who can see beyond words you rather appear to be begging a pardon of the Episcopal and Presbyter and the wilde Boyes and Apprentices of London by accusing the Quakers as hereafter will appear and that fearfulness and unbelieving is entered into your hearts and so your spirits is betrayed into a slavish fear but if ever you be accepted or owned of God you must own that for your strength which the Quakers live in and if ever any Rule for God in this Nation they must own that light life and spirit which they are guided by and then they will not despise but have unitie with the Quakers To the fourth you say Whereas we are further charged with endeavouring an Vniversal Tolleration of all miscarriages both in things Religious and Civil under pretence of Liberty of Conscience it is in both respects notoriously false And we do before the Lord that shall judge both quick and dead yea before Angels and Men declare our utter detestation of such a Toleration for in matters Civil we desire there may not be the least Tolleration of miscarriage in any much lesse in our selves Nor do we desire in matters of Religion that Popery should be Tolerated the blood of many thousands of the people of God having been barbarously shed by the Professors thereof or any Persons tolerated that worship a false God nor any that speak contemptuously and reproachfully of our Lord Jesus Christ nor any that deny the Holy Scriptures contained in the Books of the Old and New Testament to be the Word of God and yet we are not against tolerating of Episcopacy Presbytery or any stinted form provided they do not compel any others to a compliance therewith or a conformity thereunto For whatever composers of any form of worship may possibly err it is derogating from God and his Holy Word and injurious to men to compel any to the Practise thereof Answ. What confusion is here and contradiction both to your selves and to the example of Christ as to Religion you will not tolerate Popery because the blood of many of the people of God have been barbarously shed by the Professors thereof neither will you have any persons tolerated that worship a false God nor any that speak contemptuously and reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ nor any that deny the Holy Scriptures contained in the books of the old and new Testament to be the Word of God And yet you are not against tolerating of Episcopacy Presbytery or any stinted form why will you not tolerate Popery as well as Episcopacie hath not the Professors of Episcopacie murthered and slain and do labour to murther and slay the people of God as well as the Papists and why will you tolerate the Common Prayer among the Episcopacie and not the Mass among the Papists seeing that the Mass was the substance out of which the Common-Prayer was extracted hear is nothing but partialitie to tolerate one thing and not another of the same kind and why will you not tolerate the persons of those that worship a false God nor the persons that deny the Scriptures to be the word of God nor the persons of those that speak contemptuously nor reproachfully of the Lord Jesus Christ An. If you will not tolerate their persons then you will murther or destroy their persons and herein you have proved the accusation against you to be true that you have a design to murther and destroy those that differ from you in matters of Religion as for instance those that worship a false God they differ from you in maters of Religion and you will not have any of their persons Tolerated then their persons must be destroyed for differing from you in matters of Religion and they that deny the Scripture that is the writings to be the Word of God that is to be Christ whose Name is called the Word of God you will not tolerate their persons then you will destroy them because they differ from you in matters of Religion and those that speak reproachfully of Jesus Christ you will not tolerate their persons then you will destroy their persons because they differ from you in matters of Religion and thus having contradicted your selves you have also contradicted the example of Christ for he came among those that worshipped false Gods even Stocks and Stones and Graven Images the works of mens hands and he was not against tolerating their persons neither came he to destroy mens lives because of such things but had a Gospel to Preach unto them whereby they might learn to know the living God and turn from dumb Idols and those that spoke Reproachfully against him and said he had a Devil yet he was not against Tolerating their Persons but Preached the Kingdom of God to them and did bid them seek it and the Righteousness thereof and told them that the Kingdom of God was within them and he was among such as denyed that there was a God or Christ Resurrection Angel or Spirit and this is more then to deny the Scriptures to be the Word of God which indeed is words and not the Word And Christ was not against Tolerating of any of the Persons as you have express'd your selves to be and so shewed forth a murthering Spirit but seeing that you