Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	true_a	truth_n	word_n	7,456	5	4.2077	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A89880	Independencie no schisme. Or, An answer to a scandalous book, entituled, The schismatick sifted: written by Mr. John Vicars. Which may serve also for a reply to Master Edwards his Gangræna. Wherein is discovered the vanity of those unjust slanders cast upon the dissenting brethren, whom they call Independents. With some hints added about gospel-government. / By M.N. med. pr.	Nedham, Marchamont, 1620-1678.	1646 (1646)	Wing N391; Thomason E344_24; ESTC R200974	10,956	18

Apologists confessed the Parochial congregations true churches of Christ but now that Independents forsake them 5. That the Apologists promised nor to preach or print any thing in vindication of themselves or their opinions 6. That Mr. Philip Nye is a notable Independent Polititian and nimble Agent for the schismatical Church way That Mr. Nye got the writing out of Mr. Calamies hands wherein it was agreed by the Presbyterian and Independent Ministers and subscribed that neither side should preach print dispute or otherwise act against each others way till both sides in a full meeting did declare the contrary Answer To the first That whosoever loves to laugh at a sermon let him go hear Mr. Peters take heed you do not blow a trumpet to draw company after him to that end in expectation of sport rather than doctrine wherein Mr. Peters is able to appear serious and sound as he lately approved himself in that his excellently penned Thanksgiving Sermon upon the reducing of the West And who knows not that we owe much to his sermons for encouraging the Souldiery in that admired and auspicious Enterprise Your idle Pamphlets sir are things to laugh at not his Sermons To the second that Mr. Iohn Goodwin wrote an unsavoury treatise called Cretensis I say Cretensis was a fit title in answer to such an unsavoury treatise as Gangraena which may one day prove a fretting Cancer within the breast of the Author The Cretians were alwayes lyars as he that takes all by hear-say from the world must needs be since he who is Prince of the world is also the Father of lies To the third that the Apologetical Narration was attested by the Authors only to paint out their own piety but that it betrayes double dealing and that their banishment was but pretended The end of that Apologie was only to quit themselves of many fictions falshoods and scandals secretly dispersed against them wherein nothing was mentioned but in order to a just and necessary Vindication therefore let none take with the left hand what they offered with the right And pray tell us how their Banishment becomes more pretended than the rest of Gods people which wandred out of the Kingdome for their Conscience sake to unknown habitations while you and others warmed you selves with as much content under the sun-shine of Antichristian Prelacie as now under the Presbyterie the templer of such Professors varies according to the constitution of the State where they live they had rather shift Religion a hundred times then their Climate once To the fourth that the Apologists confessed Parochial congregations to be true Churches I answer in Mr. Saltmarsh his words upon the same objection You are not to prove what others confesse or hold you to be but what you are indeed according to truth Nor shall I contend with those that hold you so but with you that hold your selves so as the Spirit to the Laodiceans Thou sayest thou art full c. but behold thou art poor c. To the fifth that the Apologists promised not to preach or print any thing c. But did they promise to sit still and see a Government set up which they cannot allow of and hear Persecution preached and endeavoured against all which approve not of that way Doth not such a course force them to it unlesse they will betray themselves and the truth of God For Zions sake we cannot hold our peace To the sixth that Mr. Philip Nye is a notable Independent-polititian an Agent for the schismatical Church-way and got away the writing from Mr. Calamy I say Mr. Nye is better known by his sound doctrine and integrity of conversation than to be blasted by the pen of any Not all your Ink can stain his Robes of innocence This was the High-Priests strain concerning our Saviour We found this fellow perverting the people And shall the servant expect better Luk. 23. 2. than his master No they said so too of Paul We found this man a pestilent fellow a mover of sedition c. Act. 24. 5. Touching the VVriting of agreement wherefore was it made was it because you doubted the strength of that Building intended by you when another Platform should be offered you were sure ye thought of having the countenance of authority to your work only it seems you were afraid it might be retarded upon more perfect discoveries by your Brethren and therefore thought all would be sure if their mouths were sealed up and their hands manacled by a circumventing agreement At that time when this agreement was made it might be requisite in regard of the mutuall interest of both parties against the common enemy and the necessity of laying aside differences in Opinion for a time But I hope Mr. Vicars will not say it was intended for a snare to the Brethren that now when the War is drawn to a period when a Government is erecting pretending an absolute conformity to the Word which they cannot be perswaded of and minaces and persecution denounced both in presse and pulpit against them as hereticks and schismaticks if they submit not thereto that now I say they should betray themselves and the truth by silence If this were the end of that agreement as it seems to be the obligation is unlawfull and voyd as being contrary to the intent of the Brethren and further manifestation of the truth of God Mr. VICARS 1. That Independents did not so cry up the Parliaments power in matters of Religion heretofore as now 2. That a Book called the Peace-maker sayes the Assembly of Divines have nothing to do therein but so far only as the Parliament pleases to use or refuse them 3. That Mr. Iohn Goodwin hath practised for his own factious ends these many years and that Mr. Walwyn who whispered in Mr. Edwards his eare is a pharasaical whisperer 4. That the author of the last warning to London is an Independent 5. That Mr. Saltmarsh his Smoke in the Temple is foggy and choaking and that Mr. Ley of the Assembly hath shewn him his failings that his Groans for Liberty are full of misapplied paralels and unsavoury comparisons that his treatise of Free-grace is subtile and deceitfull and very much dangerous drink of errors to be found therein as Mr. Gataker sayes That Mr. Saltmarsh his exceptions at Mr. Edwards are injurious because he once speak well of Mr. Edwards when he heard him preach Answer To the first that Independents did not cry up the Parliaments power in matters of Religion heretofore as now I say shew us an exact platform according to the will of Christ and then we shall soon see who are to be impowered therein in the mean time be not angry if we allow the Parliament chief power in the Government now claimed which is meerly Prudential in the main parts of it and so undeniably of Humane cognisance Touching the second that a Book called the Peace-maker sayes the Assembly have nothing to do therein but so far

as Iohn did saying Come out of her my people yet the Devil would beg leave to be a lying spirit in the mouths of some to brand them for schismaticks To the second That since they cry out for liberty of conscience it is more lawfull for him to use liberty of speech with christian moderation Then let your moderation be known to all men leave off your nick-names and by words of your brethren Truth gains nothing by ill language I wish all of your mind would consider it and not let this liberty of tongue in them become a stumbling block to any or grieve the hearts of their Brethren Ye which look for Peace and Truth must first use Moderation were there but any Christian moderation there would be neither cry nor groan for Liberty To the third that Independencie is a most dangerous schisme and hangs upon two hinges hope of impunity and the good opinion which some Presbyterians have of them of that way I would fain have some of these Furioso's tell us wherein Independencie as they call it deserves the name of schisme If Luthers departing from Popery was no schisme if the first Reformation in England was no sohisme if the Presbyterians late departing from the Prelacie was no schisme but were all degrees of Reformation in their times how comes it then that this more spirituall Church-way of Independents which aims at a yet more perfect reformation should beare an imputation of schisme more than the other At present Satan may endeavour to blast it with the name of schisme as he did former Reformations which succeeding years may acknowledge for the right way And truly it hath pleased God to stir up mens hearts wonderfully at present to search the Scriptures themselves to take upon them to question reason cases and try spirits and not to pin their soules and understandings upon Presbyters sleeves now as they were wont to do upon the Prelates And if this course were a little more usuall among Christians all well-meaning Presbyterians would soon have a good opinion of that way and then what Hinges soever Independents hang on 't is probable others may be quite off the Hooks To the fourth That they love to live Salamander-like in the fire of hot disputes Better so than Salamander-like in the fire of persecution As long as there is Scripture-reason truth will never want a champion I do not mean in vain logical or philosophical reasoning which is meer foolishnes in reference to the things of God though yet in that way we dare hold up an Argumentative buckler against the most Mercurial Sophisters of this age Mr. VICARS That Independents preach sound doctrine yet intermixe the unsound leven of false opinions witnesse their pleas for a toleration of all opinions and liberty of conscience Answer If to teach that variety of Opinions ought not to break the Vnity of the spirit be unsound leven why then doth the Apostle presse this duty notwithstanding outward differences But as for a toleration of all opinions I suppose no discreet man will charge this upon their Brethren for we yield not to errors in Gospel-principles only we can see no reason why mens consciences should be burdened with outward ordinances or that they should be bound to this or that opinion in carnal formalities which they cannot be perswaded of and perhaps can alledge evidence from the Word for the contrary as the case is with those they call Anabaptists Independents Seckers c. Mr. VICARS 1. That Scripture discipline is the hedge wall or fence of Gods precious garden or vineyard 2. That Mr. Edwards in his Gangrana hath set forth many damnable doctrines and erronious opinions of Independents 3. That Independents and the rest of the Sectaries are like Sampsons Foxes tyed together by the tailes 4. That they pretend holines of life as the Scribes and Pharisees and afterward the hereticks did of old Answer To the first that Scripture-discipline is the hedge c. If the garden of the Church be so precious in Gods eyes then 't is sit the fence and hedge should be according to his own appointment no gardiners or guardians placed therein but of his own choosing will he not be angry if we take upon us to thrust in whom we please to order the people which are Gods husbandry after our own humour and put in such husbandmen of our own that if God send a servant or two of his they will perhaps deal with them like those in the 20. of Luke beat them wound and cast them out Certainly this will not be pleasing to the Lord of the vineyard To the second that Mr. Edwards hath set forth in his Gangraena many damnable tenets of Independents Mr. Edwards indeed has been raking in the kennel but he hath fouled himself most Mr. Edwards is a very credulous man and hopes every man else will be so too and I know would have the world think all that he reckons up belongs to Independents Is this your way of conquest to accuse the Brethren this is Satans practice I suppose Mr. Edwards looks to rise as high in renown as the old Heresiographers Augustine and Epiphanius But did they after they had cast up the heresies of old asperse them upon any one party as Mr. Edwards endeavours upon the dissenting Brethren on purpose to render them odious to the people This is a weak shift to support the Government he layes claim to To the third that Independents and the other sectaries are like Sampsons foxes tyed together by the tails Indeed this is the designe to present Independents and the rabble of lewd and unwarrantable Opinions all under one whether they be tyed by the tailes it matters not much their heads are distant enough and the world sees it till Mr. Vicars prove the contrary all whose books have neither head nor taile neither premises nor conclusion but upon his own bare word and authority To the fourth that they pretend holinesse of life as the Scribes and Pharisees and Hereticks of old Do all so or some few tell us next time how many and their names lest the whole suffer for some few Do you and Mr. Edwards resolve to take all on trust Are you able to judgd of the inward man How does this agree with the new commandement which Christ Jesus received of the Father and left as his last legacie to his Children that they should love one another By this sayes John we know that we are of the Truth Not by slandering the Brethren Woe to them by wh●m scandals come Judge not that ye be not judged Mr. VICARS 1. That whosoever loves to laugh at a sermon let him go heare Mr. Peters preach 2. That Mr. Iohn Goodwin wrote a late unfavory treatise called Cretensis 3. That the Apologeticall Narration was attested by the Authors only to paint out their own piety but that it betrayes double dealing and that their exile or banishment out of England was but pretended 4. That the