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A46775 A net for the fishers of men and the same which Christ gave to His Apostles Wherein the points controverted betwixt Catholiques and sectaries, are briefly vindicated, by way of dilemma. By two gentlemen late converts. J. C., late convert.; J. M'C, late convert. aut 1686 (1686) Wing J5B; ESTC R221649 17,198 131

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agree if not why hath it the Visibe Signe to wit the Penitents Confession and the Priests Absolution of an Invisible Grace which is the Remission of Sins according to St. John 20.23 Whose Sins ye shall ●●tain they are retained a●● whose Sins you shall forgi●● they are fotven 115. Extream Vunc●●on is a Sacrament or no● if it be then there a●● more then two Sacraments if not why then hath it the Visible Signe to witt the Priests Prayer and the anointing with Oyl of an invisible Grace whereof St. J●● speaks in the 5.13 14 15. Is any Man sick among you● let him bring in the Priests of the Church and let them pray over him anointin● him with Oyl in the Name of ●●●cur Lord and the Pray●●● of Faith shall shall save 〈◊〉 Sick Man and our Lord ●●●ll lift him up and if he 〈◊〉 in Sins his Sins shall be ●●●given him 117. Holy Order is a●●crament or not if it be then it is no vacuant ●●rimony if not why ●●en hath it the Visible ●igne to witt the words of the Bishop and ●he things given to him ●●at it ordain'd of an ●●visible Grace according 1 Tim. 4.14 Neglect ●or the Grace which is in 〈◊〉 very Prophecy with the imposition of the hands of the Priesthood 117. Matrimony is a-Sacrament or not if it be then it is not a naked Ceremony of the Popsh Church if not why then hath it a Visible Signe to witt the mutual consent of both Parties of an Invisible Grace and Supernatural Conjunction made by Almighty God St. Mat. 19.6 That therefore which God hath joined let not man seperate And again Ephes 5 31.3● There shall be two in one Flesh this is agreat Sacrament but I say in Christ and the Church 118. A Visible Signe of an Invisible Grace divinely instituted by Christ is the true Definition of a Sacrament or not if not then you deny the definition which your selves attributes to a Sacrament if it be how can you deny the above mentioned seven Visible Signes of Invisible Graces divinely instituted by Christ to be Sacraments 119. Baptisme and the Lord's Supper is more evidently said in Scripture then any of the other 5 to be Sacraments or not if not why then do you hould those two only and none of the other five to be Sacrament if they be then shews us in what Book Chapter or Verse is Baptisme and the Lord's Supper said to be Sacraments and none of the other five which you so obstinately deny THE APENDIX 120. THat the Sectaries of our Times have no lawful or continued Succession which we prove thus Your Church hath it's Succession from the undernamed Sects or not if not then you cannot have your Succession from any other visible in the World since Gregory the Great about whoss Time you hold the Romish Church fell from her Purity if she hath why do you not profess the sam● Articles with the undernamed Sects viz. with the Waldenses that Lay-Men and Women may Consecrate and Preach that Clergy Men ought to have no Possessions or Porperties and that Oaths was unlawful in all cases c. which absurdities were condemned by the third Lateran Council in the twelveth Century with Abbot Joachim who denyed the Father Son and Holy Ghost to be one highest Thing Essence or Nature though three distinct Person● Can. 3 which Heresy was condemned by the fourth Lateran Council in the thirteenth Century wi●● Bergardes and Beg●●ines who held Car●●a Lust to be done out of Temptation to be ●o Sin c. wich adsurdity was condemned by the Council of Vienna ●n the fourteenth Cen●●ry with John Husse 〈◊〉 Wicklif Hierome o● Prague that all Priests and Majistrates ●●ll from their Dignity by any Mortal Sin and ought no longer 〈◊〉 be obeyed that God must obey the Devil and that temporal Lords might t●ke away Church Liveings at their pleasure c. which obsurdities were totally condemned by the the Council of Constance in the fifteenth Century your Church had her Succession from the above mentioned Sects or not if you have then you must maintain the same most rediculous Tenets with the above mentioned Sectaries if not then you must have no Succession unless it be from the Antient Roman Catholique Church to the contrary 121. Luther and Calvin had their Mission from the Roman Church or not if not then they had no Mission if they had the Roman Church had the Spirit of God when she gave them the● mission or not if no● how could she give them lawful Mission not haveing the Spir●●● of God if she had how could she fall into Errors and why did they depart from the Spirit of God W●● insist further they ha●● their Mission from God or not if no● then it was from the Devil if they ha● why did they not confirm their Doctrine with Miracles ●s God did the unwriten Law Moses the writen Law and Christ Jesus the new Law 122. Luther and Calvin's Doctrine was manifested to be true by Miracles or not if it was by what Miracles did they ever confirm that which they preached if not then seeing you cannot alledg any Texts of sacred Writ to vindicate their Tenets you must of necessity run to your private Spirit for arefuge to the Contrary 123. The Apostles had the private Spirit or not if not then it is not Apostolical but rather Diabolical if they had why then did they call a Council Acts the 15. 124. Your privat Spirit is of God or not if not then it is of the Devil if it be of God why then are there so many disagreeing Sects amongst you 125. A Man endowed with your private Spirt can interpret Scriptures or not if not why then doth rude and unlitarated Mechanicks the meanest of Peasants and in fine all the Plebeian Sort presume to interpret the most difficult parts of Holy Scripture and distinguish the Canonical Books from Apocr if they can what need have you of Preachers or Teachers seeing no Man will believe any thing but what his private Spirit suggests unto him forged by those w●●● never could learn 〈◊〉 speak or write Truth 〈◊〉 if he doth we Faithfu●ly promise by the Gra●● of God to paint and also rip up all the Sores of Protestancy not by Imaginary Fancies or rather wilful Falcities as they obtrude against u● but even from Protes●ant approved History graphers and the present times which all the Impartial and clear sighted Eyes are witnesses of Wee of the Society of Jesus in obedience to the command of our superiors have perused this Book and finding nothing in it contradicting the Catholique Church are in hopes that it may be the Instrument of great good FINIS
shall be given for you and again Mathew the 26.28 This is my Blood of the new Testament which shall be shed for many for the Remission of Sins If it be why do you deny the real presence in the Eucharist 60. Christ gave his Body and Blood to his Apostles at his last Supper or not if not than you make Christ a lyer and the Scriptures false if he did why do you deny the real Presence 61. When Christ said this is my Body did he speak Metaphorically or not if not why do you deny the real Presence if he did prove the Metaphor out of Scripture 62. The blessed Body of Christ not being contained in the Bread can be eaten or not if not why do you maintain that you eat the Body that is not contained in the Bread if it can doth i● not imply a great contradiction seeing you hold the Body is eaten in the Eucharist and not eaten in the Eucharist LITURGIE In an unknown Tongue Vindicated by most sollid Texts in Scripture 63. THat which the Apostles practised is lawful for us to p●actise or not if not then you accuse the Apostles of doing that which was not lawful if it be why do you deny the lawfulness of the Liturgy in an unknown Tongue seeing the Apostles had their publick Liturgies in Hebrew Greek Syriack and Latin as is manifest in History 64. Seeing God hath commanded nothing concerning the Language of the publick Liturgy we ought to follow the Commands of the Church or not if not why do you deny that of St. Mat. 18.18 If he will not hear the Church let him be to the as an Heathen and Publican if it be why then do you deny the Liturgy in an unknown Tongue being the Church commands the same 65. The Man that Prays and gives Thanks in an unknown Tongue doth well or not if not why do you condemn that of Scripture 1 Cor. 14.17 Thou indeed givest thanks well but the other is not edified If he doth why do you condemn the Liturgy in an unknowu Tongue 66. That which is praised in Scripture and proved to be pleasing to God is lawful and expedient for us to practise or not if not then the Scriptures contain unlawful and unnecessary things if it be why do you deny Liturgy in an unknown Tongue seeing the Apostle says 1 Cor. 1.14.2 He that speaketh with Tongues speaketh not to Men but to God and again ver 14. If I pray with Tongues my Spirit prayeth but my Vnderstanding is without fruit and finally ver 30. To speak with Tongues forbid 〈◊〉 not Sacramental CONFESSION AND ABSOLUTION Vindicated to be Pious Good and Lawful by the most sollid Texts of Scripture 67. THe Apostles being made Spiritual Judges by Christ our Lord had power from him to bind and loose from sin or not if not why do you deny that of St. Mat. 18.18 Whatsoever ye shall bind on Earth shall be bound also in Heaven and whatsoever ye shall loose on Earth shall be loosed also in Heaven if they had why do you reject Absolution 68. The Laity is obliged to disclose their faults to their Judges or not if not how can they absolve them from what they know not if they be why then do you deny confession of Sins 69. Christ in speaking these Words Joh. 20. 24 Whose Sins ye shall forgive they are forgiven and whose Sins ye shall retain they are retained spoke true or false if false then you condemn the Author of Truth in Lyes if true why do you deny the Power of Absolution 70. That which the Scripture commands is necessary or no if not then the Scriptures command unnecessary things if it be why do you deny that of St. Jam. 5.16 Confess your faults to one another PURGATORY Vindicated by the most sollid Texts of Scripture 71. THere is a penal Prison or place of temporal Punishment and Payment after this Life or not if not why then do you falsifie that of Scripture Zach. 4.11 Thou also in the Blood of thy Testament hast let forth thy Prisoners out of the Lake wherein there is no Water And again Ma● 3. He shall sit as purging Fire and shall purge the Sons of Levy And again 1 Cor. 3.14 15. The work of every Man shall be manifest for the day of our Lord will declare it because 〈◊〉 will be revealed in Fire and the work of every one of what sort it is the Fire shall try if any mans work abide he shall receive a reward if any ones works burn he shall suffer loss but himself shall be saved yet so as by Fire And finally Mat. 5.27 Be at agreement with thy Adversary betimes whiles thou art on the way with him least thy Adversary deliver thee to the Judge and the Judge to the Gaoler and thou be cast into Prison Amen I say to thee thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing if there be why do you deny Purgatory 72. Those Souls which our Blessed Saviour and his Apostles raised from death they were in Heaven or Hell or not if not why then do you deny a third place if they were how could they return to mortality 74. Christs descention was into the Hell of the Damned or not if not then it was into the third place if it was then you Blaspheme 74. When Christ preached to the Souls in prison 1 Pet. 3.13 it was to the Damned o● not if not then it was to the Souls in Purgatory If it was to the Damned then you would have Christ to preach in vain seeing out of Hell there is no redemtion Mortal and Venial SINS Vindicated by most solid Texts of Scripture 75. ALL kind of sins robs the Soul of Justice and makes her guilty of Damnation or not if not then some sins are only Venial if they do why then doth Christ make three different sorts of sins of which the last only renders a man guilty of Demnation Mat. 5.23 Whoever shall be angry with his brother shall be in danger of judgment whosoever shall say to his brother Racha shall be in danger of council and whoever shall say thou fool shal be in danger of hell fire 76. All Sins are mortal and sufficient to break Charity betwixt God and Man or not if not then there must be some venial and not sufficient to break Charity betwixt God and Man if they be then the Apostles themselves were not in the Charity of God seeing it is said in St. Jam. 3.2 We all offend in many things 77. All Idle Words are mortal Sins or not if not then there must be some venial if they be how then can any hope for Salvation seeing no man morally speaking can avoid idle Words 78. All Sins are unto Death or not if not then there are some venial if there be then you make Christ a Lyar who said There is a Sin unto Death and a Sin not unto Death Joh. 5.16 The Invocation OF ANGELS AND SAINTS
A NET FOR THE Fishers of MEN And the same which Christ gave to his Apostles Wherein the Points contraverted betwixt Catholiques and Sectaries are briefly vindicated by way of Dilemma By two Gentlemen Late CONVERTS Mark 1.17 And Jesus said unto them come ye after me and I will make ye to become Fishers of Men. Printed Anno 1686. To Her Most Excellent Majesty Mary Queen of Great Britan. May it please your Sacred Majesty WHat in this little Book is contained being the Motives of of our Conversions to the amient Apostolical Catholique Roman Church we have made bold to Didicate it to Your Serene Majesty and also our Harts Blood and Life to the Service of your Royal Spouse Great James the Second We humbly beg Pardon for presuming to put the Products of so weak Brains under so Princely and Gracious a Patronage acknowledging a Matter of so great Moment not only far above our unlearned Capacities but that rather it required the Learning of St. Hierome the Eloquence of St. Chrisostome the Quick Witt of St. Augustine the Sobriety of St. Ambrose and sweet Stile of St. Barnard But Madam if favourably received by your Great Majesty our Adversaries who will undergo to answer it shall find that Children set upon the shoulders of so High Giants as the forementioned Pious Fathers were shall see farther into Heavenly Religion than he that proudly will not follow Scripture Councils nor Fathers but his own human Inventions and private Spirits after the creuel Example of the Tyrant Proclus who made Men of all Proportions fit the length of his Bed by cutting off him what was too long or by drawing him longer who was too short Most Sacred Madam what is promised if received into Your Majesties Protection which we most humbly beg may be the easier performed because the chast Spouse of the most High wanteth not a thousand Bucklers of Defence Again humbly beging Pardon for this Ambition of avowing our selves Your Majesties Most Humble Most Obedient and Most Loyal Subjects C. J. J. M'C TO THE READER SAcred Writ informs us that in the primitive Times our Blessed Saviour begining to lay the Foundation of his holy Church called Fishermen to the Apostleship and to those he gave a Net which was the Wisdom and Knowledg of the Eternal Father suitable for taking such Fish as swim in the Ocean of Apostacy Heresy and Schisme The Apostles after Experiencing the great good that did ●●●own'd to the World by the special benefit of this Net and the many Souls that were caught therein would not prejudice the Church 〈◊〉 robbing her of so ●agnificent a Gift ●ut bury'd the same in the Bowels of holy Scripture where we illuminated by the Father of Light finding so precious a Treasure though ●it to present it unto you Curteous Reader as a pledg of our affectionate Respects it being the only Motive of our Conversions hoping if perused with no more Passion prejudice or Interest then we did who had as great Aversion against the Catholique Church as you or any other can have that it may produce the same effects in your heart that it hath in ours If you acknowledg to be convinced in all Points saving these which we omitted for brevitys sake Viz. the unbloody Sacrafice of the Mass Communion under one kind the Works of Supererogation c. We hope to go Victorious out of the Field But if any will undertake to answer this little Treatise he shall not be the Instrument only of our Recantation but o● many more We with all Christian sincerity desire that if you can resolve the following Queries for to annex your Answer thereunto if not we Pray the devine Majesty of his infinite Mercy to iluminate you with the Beams of his holy and saving Grace which shall ever be the Prayers of your well Wishers in Christ Farewel C. I. J. M'C TO The Holy Wisdom of of the Glorious Trinity BLessed Everliving Wisdom Exellent and Supream Intelligence behold us prostrate before the Majesty of your Great and Divine Light to offer up the Hommage of our Persons and Book humbly acknowledging the Nothing both of the one and the other and with all the Powers of our Souls protesting to have neither Spirit nor Pen which is not of Yon and from You who are the Scource of all good Thoughts and Accomplishment of all Honourable and Praise-worthy Discourses A NET For the FISHERS of MEN. First GOD hath a true Church in the World or not if not then Christ left Man without a Medium to Salvation if he hath yours is that true Church or not if not than yours is not the true Christian Church if it be than your Church must have these following marks viz. Visibility Unity Universality and Sanctity which the Scriptures teacheth to be the Signes of Christ ' s Immaculate Spouse VISIBILITY Demonstrated to be a Mark of the true Church 2. THe House of our Lord shall be prepared on the top of Mountains or not if it be why then do you deny that the Church may be always visible if not why do you deny that of Isa 2.2 The Mountain of the house of our Lord shall be prepared on the top of Mountains 3. A City seated on a Hill can be hid or not if it can why do you deny that of St. Mat. 5 14. A City seated upon a Hill cannot be hid if not than the Church cannot be invisible 4. Christ founded a Church on Earth that all Nations may be edified therein or not if not why do you deny that of Isa 2.2 All Nations shall flow unto her 〈◊〉 again Psal 85.9 All Nations whatsoever thou hast made shall com● and adore before thee if he did why then do you say the Church may be invisible since all Nations cannot be edified in a Church unseen 5. A Man for not hearing the Church is tearmed in Scripture a Heathen and Publican or not if not why the● do you deny the wor●● of St. Mt. 18.18 He th●● will not hear thee Church let him be to the as an Heathen and Publican if he be how than shall a Man be termed an Heathen for not hearing a Church that was not visible or yet extant in the World UNITY Demonstrated to be a mark of the True Church 6. A Natural Unity and conection or the parts among thems●lves and to the head is necessary for the conservation of the natural body or not if not how can a natural body subsist if the parts be devided and torn from one another from the head If it be why is that natural conection proper to a natural body and not a spiritual conection proper to a spritual body 7. Christ promised that there should be unity in his Church or not if not why do you deny that of St. John 10.16 there shall be made one fol● and one Pas●o● if he did why do you deny unity 8. Unity is requisite in Gods Church or not if not why do you deny that of