suppose is much wrested about that point is it not Res. Yea very much For they that are against it heapeth up all the Scripture-places that possibly they can of the Saints failings of their expressions spoken in the time of their warfare and places of Scripture they produce which was spoken of men in their unconverted estate and these Scriptures they wrest pervert and doth add their meanings and conceivings unto them therefore it is that thousands hath so much to say against that point which they will as earnestly plead against as any other particular thing that is in dispute among men at this day Enq. What such men are they that do wrest the Scripture and differs so much in their inâ—â—rpretatiâ—ns which these People cryes so much against Res. They are such as are unstable and unlearned who errs not knowing the Spirit nor the guidings and leadings thereof but are truce-breakers and incontinent who seek to subvert whole Countries by their delusions which people are led into by giving heed unto their false interpretations which they give of the holy Scripture which is of no private interpretation and they are such as gain-say the truth being pâ—oud and presumptuous doting about questions and strife of words unruly and vain talkers such as teach things which they ought not for filthy lucre sake these such like do these people cry out against for each of them do wrest and pervert the Scripture to their own ends seeking thereby to confirm their erronious opinions which are contrary to Scripture and contrary to Truth so that these people have good reason to testifie against them being that the Name of God is so much dishonored by them and the holy Scripture sâ—â—â—taordinarily wrested among them by the different interpretations thereof Enq. How dâ— these people understand the Scripture Is there not strife and contenton aâ—mong them about the meaning of it Res. By the same spirit by which theâ— were guided that spoke forth the Scripture do these People understand it every one oâ— them according to their measures and the light in which they walk doth give theâ—â—â—he same understanding in the holy Scripâ—â—ure which they had that spake forth 〈◊〉 â—cripture although many among them 〈◊〉 â—rt of so large a measure as the Authors the holy Scripture had yet that underâ—â—ding which God hath given them by holy Spirit is the same which holy men God had in its measure so that they far from striving and contending about meaning thereof among themselves for 〈◊〉 which the light opens to one is not â—tradicted by them that are in the light â— therefore they are at peace among â—â—selves and in unity one with another Enq. It is reported of them that they go inâ—any Churches to disturb them and that â— speak before the Minister have ended and â—ieth themselves unruly in the time of his â—ed Devotion is this true 〈◊〉 'T is true some of them have gone inâ—any Congregations as Lambs among â—lves in obedience to the motions of the â—er of the Lord and in the Assembly 〈◊〉 have spoken that which was revealed â—hem while they stood by and he that â—ld have holden his peace who had first â—en left his matter in hand and cryed 〈◊〉 Constable or an Officer to take him â—y that begun to speak his Revelation 〈◊〉 the unruly speaker that should have â—en his peace and kept the people in orâ—â— beginning to be so â—urious and angry â—â—st the other this occasioned great disorder in the Congregation which 〈◊〉 have been prevented if the spirit of the Speaker had been subject to the spirit him that had the Revelation then mâ— the thing have been done decently anâ— order according to the rule of the 〈◊〉 â—stle I Cor. 14 30 32 40. And as toucâ— carrying of themselves unreverently 〈◊〉 is said of them because they do not their hat in the time of their Prayer join with them in their unholy devotiâ—â— which they are not free unto neither 〈◊〉 they bid them God speed because 〈◊〉 know that they are out of the Doctrinâ— Christ â— offering unacceptable sacrificeâ— which act these people will not be paâ—â—kers but for any of them to go purpoâ—â— with an intent to disturb any Congreâ—â— on I believe such a thing hath never enâ— into their thoughts for commonly 〈◊〉 they have gone upon service for the 〈◊〉 to such places it hath been in the crossâ— their own wills whose lives have beeâ— great danger in them houses called Câ—â—ches and much of their blood have 〈◊〉 spilt many bruises they have gotten most shamefully have they been intreaâ— handled in them places called Churcâ— by those that have resorted unto them this hundreds will witness and testifie 〈◊〉 â— been eye-witnesses of it â—nq It is a strange thing that they will not from such places then had they not better â—ill and quiet and molest none then so to â—ard their lives or at least to take other opâ—unities then when People are at Church â—es The thing is strange in the eyes of 〈◊〉 that they should so as it were haâ— their lives among unreasonable men seeketh to do them mischief but that â—er of the Lord by which they are moâ—o go to such places doth oftentimes â—culously preserve them and into his 〈◊〉 they commit their life who hath giâ—t them the which they could freely â—own for the truth's sake if therâ—unto were called Now if they should moâ—ny in their own wils by speaking their words to them they had better be still â—iet then to do so but if the Lord move 〈◊〉 to speak to any or to go to any place had better obey him then bear his â—emâ—nts for disobedience if the parâ—oken unto be one that cannot bear â—d Doctrine then will they be offended â—olested by him that speaketh like as â—ziah Amos 7. 12 13. was molested Amos and therefore would he have â—im to have fled into another Land â—ot to have prophesied at Bethel because it was the Kings Chappel and Court as now several there are 〈◊〉 would not have these people to come their Churches because the congregaâ—â—on is disturbed by them like as the Kiâ—â— Court Chappel was disturbed by mos and the Synagogues of the Jews Christ and the Apostles and many 〈◊〉 perswade them to the contrary but 〈◊〉 perswasions of such they do no more gard then Amos regarded the perswâ—ons of Amaziah Enq. What go they to Churches then cause Amos went to the Kings Chapâ— and because Christ and the Apostles wenâ— the Sâ—nagogues as their manner was Res. O no if they had no other grouâ— then were they but wilful imitators 〈◊〉 like unto the false Prophets who run wâ— the Lord had not sent them but these 〈◊〉 are moved by the same power 〈◊〉 moved Amos to go the Kings Chapâ— by the same power I say are they moâ— to go to steeple-houses other place bear testimony unto the same truth 〈◊〉 Amos held forth the same
doth it not Enq. Well but it is a fashion which men â—ve and a token of civiâ— respect had they â—t better please men by conforming unto them 〈◊〉 this thing of small importance then to ofâ—nd them through abstaining from doing of it â—r we read that Paul became all to all unto 〈◊〉 Iews he became as a Iew c. Res. The fashions of this World will â—ass away but the Word of God endures for â—ver by which Word these people 〈◊〉 redeemed from the World so that theâ— cannot be conformable to it in its wayâ— worships customs and fashions all whiâ—â— will pass away and if they should seek 〈◊〉 please men then were they not the seâ—â—vants of Christ whose servants never 〈◊〉 such a token of civil respect as doffing 〈◊〉 the hat that we read of in the whole Scâ—â—pture and who dare call them his servanâ— that receive honor of men from their haâ—â— and are offended if it be not given theâ— surely they are not like unto him in the thing for he received not honor from meâ— neither did he seek it but said unto thoâ— that did How can ye believe that receiâ—â— honor one of another and seek not 〈◊〉 honor that cometh from God onely And although Paul became as a Jew uâ—â— to the Jews as without law to them thâ—â— were without law yea all things to all meâ— this he did for the Gospels sake not 〈◊〉 please men but that he might by all meaâ— save some therefore condescended he 〈◊〉 the simplicity in them speaking low thinâ—â— to their capacity and understanding the so by guile he might catch them and gaâ— or win them to the truth but who dare 〈◊〉 that he became an Idol-worshipper witâ— Idolaters If so how should he havâ— brought any from that Idolatry to have worshipped the living God Or who dare say that he became an opposer of Truth with opposers If so how should he have gained any of them to the truth but it was not so with Paul who shewed himselfe in all things approved of God â—n whose sight he commended himself to every mans conscience Enq. I am perswaded that if these People â—ere admitted to answer for theâ—selves upon â—ll occasions many would come to be satisfied 〈◊〉 things concerning them wherein they are 〈◊〉 inform'd Res. Oh yea but alas such reports are â—umored abroad of them by such as say â—eport and we will report it as is not fitâ—ng to be named among Christians and â—ese Reports being credited or regarded â—y simple people they become odious and â—espised among men and therefore is it â—at there is so much whooting and hissing 〈◊〉 them in the streets but if they might 〈◊〉 admitted to make their own defence in â—e presence of prudent and understanding â—en having their accusers face to face to â—ove their accusations that they have aâ—inst them I believe many would come to 〈◊〉 better satisfied the mouths of gain 〈◊〉 would come to be stopped and the ignorance of foolish men would come to be silenced but that is the policy and subtilty of their grand Adversary who was a Lyar from the beginning to make people believe all the horrid lies that can be spoken invented of them and thereby comes the minds of thousands to be evil affected against the precious truth which if theâ— were but rightly informed of the certainty of things reported they would either bâ— brought to the acknowledgement of the truth otherwise to lay their hands upoâ— their mouths and become silent if theâ— were not evil men and seducers and sucâ— thou knowest will grow worse and worsâ— Enq. Hath the truth of God been so dâ—famed blasphemed and reproached in othâ—â— generations as it is now in this age Res. Yea in all ages when the Lord appeared by his power to reveal his precioâ—â— Truth upon the face of the earth Satâ—â— who goes to fro in the earth hath stiâ—red up his instruments to defame blaâ—pheme and reproach it by whose blasphâ—mies the living Truth hath been much â—â—faced and so it is now at this day by 〈◊〉 multitude of lyes false reports and aspeâ—â—ons which are cast upon it by wicked aâ— ungodly men who cry out against such 〈◊〉 formerly have defamed blasphemed aâ—â— reproached the Truth and they themselâ—â—â— are blasphemers and reproachers like as the Jews did who exclaimed against their Fathers for killing the Prophets yet they themselves put him to death who was the Prince of Glory of whom the Prophets prophesied Enq. But I would yet ask something concerning these People Baptize they their children Or are they themselves baptized Res. Their children they do not baptize according to the course of the World for they find no Scripture that speaks of Infants baptism nor no example in the Scripture for the same yet they who are in the unity are baptized by one Spirit into one Body and so many of them as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death that they should walk in newness of life and this is the onely baptism which they do witness Enq But were â—hey never baptized with Elementary water Res. Some of them in the time of ignorance were baptized with outward Water supposing that it were necessary for salvaâ—ion but after they had taken up the Ordiâ—ance they took up their rest also in the â—ead form did apply the Promises whicâ—â—as due to Believers although little or no â—eformation was wrought in them yet â—hey were conceited in themselves that it was well with them until the Lord in his infinite love opened their blind eyes and then they saw themselves to be poor naked and miserable that that rest which they had taken up was not the rest which the Lord had prepared for his people neither was that baptism wherewith they were baptized the baptism which should save them by the resurrection of Jesus Christ neither did the Promises pertain unto them which they had applyed to themselves and that which gave them to see these things was the light of Jesus Christ in them bywhich they were brought afterwards to witness the baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire Enq. But are there none of them sent to baptize that so others being baptized by them might come to witness the one baptism also Res. The same command that Christ gave at the first he is with us to the end of the World which is Go teach all Nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father of the Son of the Holy Ghost but here is no outward Water mentioned and the everlasting Gospel they are sent to preach and they do turn people from darkness to light from the power of Satan unto God and so many as receive their testimony believe in the light which they are turned unto they come to witness the one baptism which is by one spirit into one body although they be never dipped nor sprinkled with outward Water and hundreds of these people are come to witness this
who have never been baptized with outward Water since they believed Enq. Own they the Lords Supper Res. Yea the Supper of the Lord they own and at the Table of the Lord which is richly furnished they sit and do eat abundantly to the eternal refreshing of their souls Enq. Well but do they break bread and drink wine at that Table like as professed Christians do Res. The Bread that they break is the Body of Christ and the Cup that they drink is the Blood of Christ but many professed Christians who talks of the Lords Table discerns not his Body and so eats and drinks their own damnation yet notwithstanding Christians in Christ breaks one Bread and drinks of one Cup they have unity one with another even as these people do witness with whom Christ doth â—up and to the substance they are come and therefore go they not by Imitation â—ike as many do who are called Christians who yet never came to eat the flesh of Christ nor to drink his blood and therefore have they no life abiding in them Enq. But yet there is something more in which I desire also to be satisfied concerning these People for many exclaims out against them for judging and condemning others Now pray thee tell me what do they judge in others any thing besides that which is condemned in themselves Res. Nay It is that onely to wit deceit and unrighteousness which the judgements of the Lord hath passed upon in their own particular and when they meet with such as pleads for that which is ordained of old for condemnation perhaps they may sharply reprove them if they judge not the deceit in them then the party reproved being one that cannot stand in the judgement exclaims out against them as if they were censorious Judges and horrid blasphemers when they have judged and reproved nothing but deceit in them and that which is to be eternally condemned even the very same that is judged in their own particulars Enq. Well but duth not Christ say Iudge not that you be not judged And Paul saith The man that judgeth is inexcusable whosoever he is Res. Yea those are the words of Christ and Paul by the way take notice of the following words did not Christ there speak to the hypocrite that beheld the Moâ—e that was in his brothers eye but considered not the beam that was in his own eye And â—ake Paul's words also as they are Thou art inexcusable O man saith he whosoever thou art that judgest for wherein thou â—â—udgest another mark wel thou condemâ—nest thy self for thou that judgest dost the â—â—ame things There is now the man that is â—nexcusable who judgeth another for that which he is guilty of himself and if thou â—or any man can tax these people in this â—hen say that they are inexcusable who are â—â—ound guilty in this thing Enq. There is another thing which men â—â—ath against them which is this They say â—hat they will not respect persons but to a Prince or Lord or whatsoever that he is they will say Thee and Thou to him and stand with â—heir Hats on in his presence as if he were a â—an of no reputation Is this true Res. He who is their God who hath â—ade of one blood all Nations of men for â—o dwell upon the face of the earth he is no respecter of persons and if they who â—are his people should have respect to persons they should commit sin and would be convinced of the Law as Transgressors and for them to have respect of persons that were not good and as for the properness of Thee and Thou I have shewed thee before And vvhy may not they stand vvith their hats on in the presence of the greatest man upon the face of the earth â—eâ—ing that they stand daily covered in the presence of their God vvhose Name is the Lord of Hosts vvho filleth Heaven and Earth in vvhom they honor all men vvithout the respecting of any ones person or the greatness and magnificency of any for vvhat is man but dust and vvherefore should he be adored by his Fellovv-creature as if honor pertained to him vvhich indeed is onely due to his Creator vvho formed him of the dust to vvhich he must return and then his honor shall be laid in the dust vvith him Enq Well but hear these people say that they are moved of the Lord to do this and the other and that they are sent of God to publish his truth now if this were true they should turn many from their wickedness should they not Res. The truth they must acknowledge whether they before whom it is acknowledged can bear it or no the which truth hath been often rejected by such as resist the Holy Ghost by the which these peoâ—le have been often moved to declare unâ—â— the sons of Adam their sin and to shew â—hem their transgression and to exhort â—em to repentance amendment of life â—nd many have been turned from darkness 〈◊〉 light from the power of Satan unto God by those among them that were sent 〈◊〉 publish his Trâ—th and to preach his eâ—erlasting Gospel unto the Spirits in Priâ—â—n yea thousands are converted turâ—ed from iniquity and wickedness and are â—rought to serve God in purity and holyâ—ess in his own Temple and therefore they â—ave not run as uncertainly or without â—â—â—ding neither have they fought as one â—â—at beateth the air for they who are turâ—ed from wickedness by them are the seal 〈◊〉 their Apostleship in the Lord Enq. It is said that they permit women to â—eak or prophesie among them Is not that exâ—esâ—y against the Scripture For did not Paul 〈◊〉 that he would not permit a woman to speak 〈◊〉 the Church And where do they read of any â—omen in the New-Testament that prophesied Res. For Women to prophesie upon â—hom the Spirit of the Lord is poured out â— not expresly against the Scripture but a â—â—â—filling of the Scripture for the Scripture â—ith That is shall come to pass afterward â—â—at I the Lord will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh your sons your daughters shall prophesie Now the fulfilling of this these people do witness who will noâ— permit a Woman upon whom the spirâ—â— of the Lord is not poured out to speak in the Church but notwithstanding every Sister in Christ upon whom the spirit of the Lord is poured out who by that spirit is moved to prophesie they forbid not foâ— the same Paul that did not permit a Woman to speak in the Church he wrote unâ—to the Church that they should not quench the spirit nor despise Prophesie neither do we read that he nor none of his company did forbid Philip's daughters to prophesie Acts 21. 8 9. who were Virgins and four in number upon whom the spirit of the Lord was poured out who wil say that he would have quenched the spirit in Phoebe if she had been moved by it to prophesie in that Church of
The Moderate ENQUIRER RESOLVED In a plain description of several Objections which are summed up together and treated upon by way of Conference concerning the contemned People commonly called QUAKERS who are the Royal Seed of God and whose innocency is here cleared in the Answers to the many Objections that are frequently produced by their Opposers Which may be profitable for all to read that have any thing against them and useful for all such as desire to know the certainty of those things which are most commonly reported of them Written in the behalf of the brethren in vindication of the Truth by VV. C. The way of the wicked is as darkness they know not at what they stumble Prov. 4 19. The simple believeth every word but the prudent man looketh well to his going Prov. 14. 15. London Printed for Thomas Simmons at the Bull and Mouth near Aldersgate 1658 TO THE READER My Friend For as much as many of these People have tâ—ken in hand to set forth large declarations of those things which are most surely believed among them even as they have received them from the Lord it seemed good to me also having had perfect knowledge of the things herein contained to publish them to the view of many people accordingly as they were laid before me in the light of truth that all such as are inquisitive to understand the certainty of those things which are usually reported of these People might be further informed satisfied and resolved Moreover Reader if certain strange things have been brought to thy ears concerning these People and that thou art desirous to know the truth of them as the Athenians were to know what Paul's new Doctrine meaned then this small Booke is very suitable for thee and if thou looke it over with patience moderation and sobriety I shall account thee more noble in that particular then they that should reject it and account it not worthy of reading as they have â—one others of the writings of theâ—e People who have written most excellent things according to the wisdom given unto them in which writings there are many things hard to be understood which ev l men terms error and blasphemy but be thou wise unto that which is good and simple concerning evil THE Moderate Enquirer RESOLVED Enquirer I Hear great rumors and reports of a People called â—uakers which should be risen up in these last dayes Canst thou tell me what a People they are When they arose By whom they were raised And to what end Resolver I do believe thee that great Rumors and Reports thou hearest of them but know this that the generality of the Reports which are reported of them are mixed with untruths Therefore have patience a little and by the Lords assistance I shall endeavour rightly to inform thee so far as I am allowed of God shaâ—l also seek fully to resolve thee concerning them but thy first demand cannot in a few words be answered but afterwards it may more fully yet in a word or two I say They are a People that fears God above all the Families of the Earth and that do worship him in his ovvn vvay viz. in spirit and in truth they do also love God above all and their neighbour as themselves â— They were raised up from death to life about eight or nine years ago and since the year 52 they have much multiplied and encreased for the blessing of the Lord hath been and to this day doth rest upon them and by him who causeth them to multiply were they raised up for this very end and purpose to praise and magnifie his Name in the earth who is God over all blessed for ever to publish his living Truth abroad that his salvation might be known unto the ends of the earth therefore hath he manifested his eternal power in them by which the world shall be overturned Enq. Thoâ— speakest strange things oâ— them which if I knew that thou spake the truth I would become one of them for unto such a people I desire to be united Res. Thou novv seemest to vvonder but if a third part of the dealings of the Lord vvith them vvere declared in thy hearing then thou vvoulst stand astonished to hear vvhat the Lord hath done for them but peradventure thou art one of them that cannot believe it though men should declare it unto thee and vvhereas thou â—aisâ— â— If thou knew that I spoke the truth thou wouldst become one of them for unto such a people thou desirest to be united c. But consider it is not an easie matter to become one of them in truth to be united to them in the spirit yet it is an easie matter to come among them and to conform unto them but before thou become one of them united to them thou must be turned from darkness to light from the power of Satan unto God and then thou wilt become as they are and where they are thou wilt be also then thou wilt come to receive the desire of thy soul as they have done Enq. Thou thy self giveâ— a good report of them â—ut I hear otherwiâ—e abroad in the world where one speaks well of them there is a hundred that cryes out against them and their errors and blasphemies and dâ—mnable doctrines Reâ—f My testimony is true which I give of them for I am one that hath perfect understanding of the dealings of the Lord with them and am very frequent among them and far be it from me to extend beyond the truth in any particular or â—o fall from my testimony which I could â—eal with my blood â—f thereunto called And what if thou hear thousands in the world controuling of them exclaiming out against them esteeming them not fit to live upon the earth this may the more confirm thee that they are of God for if they were of the world the world would love them and if they spake of the world the world would hear them but because the Lord hath chosen them out of the world therefore doth it hate them and cry out against their doctrines and opinions and doth suppose them to be erronious blasphemous damnable but their censuring supposing of them to be so doth not make them so for the Jews supposed Christ to be a blasphemer but he was not the same generation supposed the Apostles to be movers of sedition pestilent fellows but they were not and at that time they were by more condemned then owned as many examples might be produced but I believe thou thy self art not ignorant of this Enq. No no but I onely tell thee what I hear of this People I my self do not say that they are such but I would gladly be informed of the truth of the things reported of them for it is a good sign to me that all men speak evil of them it is so much the more apparent that they are of God for his people was always hated of the
world Res. This is but words springing forth of â—heir persecutors and back-biters will not say the same to their face when they are present to answer for themselves and for the Truth But tell me couldst thou with Mâ—ses rather sâ—ffer affliction with such a people to wit Imprisonment spoiling of thy Goods loss of thy good name and reputation and be bitten with the Priests mouths to be deprived of thy liberty estate to be seperated from thy wife and children kindreds and relations wouldst thou suffer this for the truth's sake as these people are ready to do when they are thereunto called Would not this cross fall on thee heavy this way prove to thee strait and this gate narrow Wouldst thou not rather chuse to enjoy the pleasures of sin the delights and vanities of the world the pleasures and renown thereof while that thou livest in the same thou maist enquire after the certainty of the reports which are reported of those that are redeemed from those things in which thou livest and confess the truth of that which they possess and thou thy self be out of it Enq. That is true but I hope we need not be so severe and strict so wilâ—ul as to leavâ— our wives and children and callings for dost 〈◊〉 not know that he that doth not provide for his Family is worse then an Infidel Res. Thou canst not be too strict and severe in godliness but thou waist be too wilful peevish and perverse in wickedness too faithless in trusting God to provide for those that he hath given thee in that particular thou maist be as an Infidel thy self or as one of the Gentiles which seeketh after things pertaining to this life saying What shall we eat or what shall we drink or wherewithall shall we be cloathed but by taking of thought they cannot add one cubit unto their stature Now if thou come to the light wherewith Jesus Christ hath enlightned thee it will bring thee to the faith of Gods elect by which the ust doth live and then thou wilt come to provide things honest in the sight of all men to be diligent in the creation serving the Lord in thy place calling wherein thou art to abide and not voluntarily to leave thy wife children without providing for thy Family that which is honest decent and fitting otherwise thou wilt be condemned by the light in thy conscience which is a swift witness against all wilfulness peevishness and perversness both in Jew and Gentile Enq. Well these things doth pertain to oneâ— own particular â—hich indeed are good in themsâ—â—ves but I woulâ— be further informed â—oncernâ—â—g these people called quakers in general I would have thee tell me how they came to have that name and who gave it them Res. To speak of things which concerns ones own particular is commonly the most beneficial but it is the property of fools to be busie in other mens matters but let us come to thy question how they came to have that name the which I intend to declare unto thee if the Lord will After that the Lord had visited them in his everlasting love and convinced them of his eternal truth then did he manifest his eternal power in them which made the strong man to bow himself and the keepers of the house to tremble by the operation of which power the bodies of some of these people came to be shaken like as David's was and this being apparent unto many spectators who despised and wondred at the workings of the power of the Lord these despisers and wonderers who were also scorners did from hence give these people this Name so that thou may take notice that it was the generation of scorners that gave them it Enq. Now I understand it but thou hints David as though he had been a quaker 't is true fearfulness trembling came uâ—on him but was there any other of the holy men of God that quaked if so why then do the people think it so strange now Res. The work of the Lord was eveâ— strange to the world for when David quâ—ked trembled and roared all they thaâ— saw him laught him to scorn so that hâ— was a reproach of men and despised of the people and his words do the scoffers and scorners oâ— this generation read and sing and reproacheth and despiseth them thaâ— tremble quake at the Word of the Lord as he did There were other of the holy men of God that were quakers as for example Moâ—es he was one that did fear and quake and the Prophet Haba kuk his lips quivered his belly shook and rottennesâ— entred into his bones and that was strange to the men of his generation like as David's quakings and roarings was strange and wonderful in his dayes and several more examples might be instanced by which the ignorance of this generation might more fully be understood and manifested Some of which hath not been afraid to call the power of God which hath made thesâ— people to quake and tremble Wiâ—chcraft and to say that it was of the Devil but they were such as spoke evil of Dignities and did erre not knowing the Scripture which speaketh of quakers nor the power of God which causeth the fleshly man to quake and the keepers oâ— the house to tremble the which these people do witness Enq. But as touching their Worship or the manner of it what is it Read they sing they or pray they in their Meetings Or deny they singing and praying as is reported of them Res. Their manner of Worship doth differ very much from the world and they that are of the world can neither take pleasure nor delight in it for when they come together they wait upon the Lord in his light it may be sometimes two or three hours in silence and sometime it hapneth that in less space then one hour some of them may be moved to speak more or less to the edifying of the rest in the mosâ— holy Faith but their Worship consisteth not in words but in spirit and in truth and in the light of truth they read their own conditions which light doth open unto them the misteries of the kingdom And for singing and praying they do them both with the spirit and with understanding but the formal singing and praying of the world which is not in the spirit nor with understanding this they do deny for they see that God is not honored by it and that which dishonoureth God they disown but that which honoreth and exalteth him alone to that their souls are united and dearly they do it own Enq. But this doth seem very strange 〈◊〉 me that they should sit some hours together silence had they not better read pray anâ— sing that they might thereby get the motionâ— the spirit by exercising of themselves in sâ—cred devotion Res. It seemeth not strange unto theâ— alone but unto thousands more who canâ— not apprehend that which they are
madâ— partakers of in silent meetings in the vvhich they vvitness the workings of the povver of God vvhich raiseth the life thaâ—â— is immortal in them upon vvhich theâ— feed and by which they come to be nourished up unto eternal life so that the motions of the pure Spirit of life they feeâ— daily which is not obtained by bodily exercise vvhich profiteth little neither by self-performances vvhich availeth not but by waiting in the light of life there are the motions of the Spirit of the Lord known and there is the sacred devotion which is acceptable unto the Lord and that devotion vvhich is out of the light is not sacredâ— but imperfect and unholy Enq. Thou speakest so promisâ—uously when thou speakest of the light of life that I do not comprehend thee wilt thou therefore tâ—ll me if it be the same light of which these people speak so much and shew me what that â—â—ight is and where that I may find a measure â—of it for I would willingly comprehend it Res. If my words be obscure and promiscuous to thee when I speak of the light of life it is because thy understanding is dark for my words are words of plainness and of truth yet nevertheless I shall endeavour to speak to thy capacity and understanding that I be not as a Barbarian to thee that so our reasoning together might not be in vain neither would I willingly multiply words to no purpose which doth not tend to edification for there is enough of that abroad in the world wherefore let us come to the thing it self viz. To the light of which I spake vvhich is the self-same of which these people speak and that of vvhich they speak is the same that Iohn the Baptist bore witness of and the same of which the Prophets by whom God spake unto our Fathers prophesied and foretold and he who is the light of the vvorld acknovvledged it vvhen he vvas come into the vvorld vvhose Name vvas Immannel vvhich by interpretation is God vvith us they that desire to see the presence of the Lord to be vvith them they must come to the light vvhich cometh from him vvhose Name is called Immanuel and they that believe and vvalk in his light shal come to have the light of life a measure oâ— which thou hast in thy conscience which shews thee thy sin transgression which separates from God and if thou turn thy mind to it thou wilt find it a swift witnesâ— against thy lusts and earthly desires and vile affections and against all manner oâ— evil whatsoever But this I would have thee to know that it is in vain for thee to go about to comprehend it for it shineth in darkness reproveth the works of darkness but the darkness doth nor comprehend it Enq. Is there not great contention and much dispute betwixt these People and busie-minded men about the light which I suppose is tedious and weariâ—om to this people is it not Res. Yea for they meet with many of these busieminded men that seek to intrude into the knowledge of high things who by their sensual wisdom seek to comprehend this incomprehensible Light and the more they strive the more they puzzle themselves and although they be puzled confounded in themselves yet they wil not cease from propounding frivolous questions about the light many of which have been fully answered according to the folly of these unruly and vain talkers lest that they should be wise in their own conceit but the truth is these people vvill many times avoid the questions and geneologies of these unreasonable men because they see them to be unprofitable and vain and that doth very much torment them Enq. Why are they not given to disputing for if the truth be on their sides they might thorow disputing overcome their opposers and instruct them that wilfully oppose themselves and so do much good thereby might they not Res. There is so much disputing in the World vvhich is altogether unprofitable that it is a mercy that they are no more inclined to it for what good can there be brought forth by it seeing that by the generality of Disputers the holy Scripture is not a little wrested perverted the Name of God too much dishonored and many precious hearts disturbed grieved and wearied by the tedious disputing which is among men and by reason of it much strife and contention is brought forth in which these people have no pleasure nor contentment for they have not so learned Christ neither do they seek by way of disputing to overcome their opposors whom they with meekness do instruct when they wilfully oppose themselves but to that of God in the consciences of their opposers they seek to be made manifest that by that they might be overcome which will convince them of the Truch which these people hath on their sides by turning people to that of God in them they do much good for as men come to be brought to that they come to be brought off from disputing to the life of that which Disputers dispute upon Enq. It is very true the Scriptures are much wrested by Disputers but pray thee tell me what do these pâ—ople hold of the holy Scriptureâ— it is reported they do deny them is that true Res. No they do not deny them but doth read peruse them above all books and they do affirm that they are able to make a man wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus and that they which were given by inspiration of God are profitable for Doctrines for Reproof for Correction for Instruction in Righteousness c they also hold them to be a true Declaration of those things which were most surely believed among the Saints of old who were eye-witnesses and some of them Ministers of the Word of God of which the holy Scriptures do testifie And further they say that the holy Scripture was written for their learning that they through patience and comfort of the Scripture should have hope this with much more they affirm of the Scripture the life of which they witness manifested in them Enq. All this is good but is there any man now that hath the same Spirit the â—postles had Or is the same light life and power now to be enjoyed which the Saints in former ages witnessed Res. I tell thee whosoever hath not the same spirit by which the Apostles were guided and lead they are none of his whom the Apostles served and owned to be their Lord and Law-giver Jesus Christ who is the same to day yesterday and for ever they that are his of his Fold and of his Priesthood they have unity in his light in which the Apostles had fellowship they are lead and guided by the same spirit that revealed things which had been hid from all ages and generations unto the Apostles and Saints and they are preserved in that power which gave the Saints victory over the world and they
live in the life of immortality which was made manifest in the Saints of old so that the same light life spirit and power is now made manifest among the Saints and to the truth of this these people can set their seals who are made partakers of the same according to their measure Enq. Have they then revelations now by the same Spirit Or is there any miracles wrought among them by the same power Res. Yea they have revelations by the same spirit which revealed the myâ—teries of God in former ages to the Saints for if they had not revelations how should they come to the knowledg of the Father whom none knows but by the revelation of the Son and by the mighty power of God miracles hath been wrought amongst them and miraculous things hath been brought to pass in a mystery which is hid from all vulterous eyes living and they are privy to these things who are witnesses of the power of God which hath wrought them but from scoffers scorners dispisers and wonderers these things are concealed Enq. But such would have a sign that they might believe and be convertâ—d also would they not Res. Yea but none must be given them but that of Ionah for they are of the adulterous generation that seeketh one saying Shew us a sign or work us a miracle that we may believe that your God is the living God and that he hath sent you c. Now they that will not believe and be converted without a sign would no more believe be converted if one were shewed them then they would have been perswaded to have repented by one that had been raised up from the dead when they rejected Moses and the Prophets Luke 16. 31. Enq. But thou spake of miracles being wrought among these people do they all work miracles Is the gift of prophesie given to all Or have they diversity of gifts Res. They do not all work Miracles neither do they all prophesie for they have differences of administrations but the same Lord diversities of operations but the same God who hath given to one by the Spirit the Word of Wisdom to another the Word of Knowledge by the same Spirit to another discerning of Spirits so that they have received diversities of gifts but the same Spirit Enq. Have not every one of them receivedâ— according to their ability and are they not in several states and conditiâ—ns Res. Yea some of them have received one talent some two some five and they boast not of that which they have because they have received it from him who is the giver of every good and perfect gift their conditions are also divers for there are fathers young men and babes among them and some there are who do not yet witness the birth brought forth which is begotten by the immortal Word of life noâ—v he that is the strongest among men will bear with the weakest and he that is the greatest among them will become servant to the least and when one among them is overtaken with a fault they that are spiritual doth restore such an one with the Spirit of meekness for sometimes they that are weak among them doth that which the witness of God in them alloweth not to the witness they consent wch convinceth them of the evil that they do through weakness which their soul hates and a law in their members they find which warreth against the law of their mind by which they are somtimes brought into captivity to the law of sin so that they cry out as Paul did in his warfare O wretched man that I am c. yet herein they find comfort that with their minds they serve the law of God though with their flesh in which no good thing dwelleth the law of sin these are such as are not yet come through the law nor to the end of the warfare but finds daily the flesh lusting against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh Enq. Well is not that a good condition Did ever any Saint come further in this life Or are any of these people made free from the law of sin by any other law Res. The time of the warfare must be known and passed through by as many as comes to be made free through him who is the end of the Law for righteousness sake and he that is faithful to the Lord in the light which brings to the warfare the same will bring him through the warfare yea to the Law of the spirit of life by which some of the people are made free from the law of sin and death in Christ Jesus and this the Saints witnessed in whom the righteousness of the Law was fulfilled through which they are come unto him who is the end of the Law and the Prophets by whom they are made free from the Law that being dead wherein they were held and they become dead to it by the body of Christ which was made a curse for them to redeem them from the curse of the Law so that they are now no more under the Law but under Grace Enq. But what do they expect to be perfect or free from sin in this life What ground have they for this in Scripture Was such a state ever commanded or witnessed by any of whom the Scripture doth speak Res. That which is perfect is manifested in them and by that they wait to be perfected for perfection is that which they earnestly press after and have hope to attain unto the fulness of it for they do believe that God would not command and require that of men which could not possibly be attained for he that said Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father which is in heaven is perfect he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified and among such as were sanctified and perfected for ever did Paul preach wisdom their perfection he wished who had not then attained to it but were pressing after it as many of these people are now who expecteth to be made free from sin as the Saints were Rom. 6. 18. and by the blood of Jesus they hope to be cleansed from all sin that being throughly sanctified and cleansed with the washing of water through the Word they might be presented to him a glorious people not having spot or wrinkle nor any such thing but that they might be holy perfected for ever but this seems incredible unto many who are not yet come to the godly sorrow for sin which worketh repentance but these people whose eyes the Lord hath opened do see a possibility in the thing they are not without faith but that they shall obtain it and therefore go they on unto it and will proceed if the Lord permit who hath manifested that in them which is perfect by which he will bring them and hath brought some of them to the perfection of purity and to the beauty of holiness where Halelujah is sung unto the Most High Enq. The Scripture I