with all to deceaue all How do you obserue the politik ordinaunce of the Maiestrate in printing your bookes and publishing them to the Queenes subiectes contrary to the law made in that behalf your obedience câ—nsisteth in wordes but not in 〈◊〉 â—hâ—refore with more truth you might saye we will not be obedient to Maiâ—strates In that you coÌ„descend â—oâ— iâ— anye thing contrary to God c. Therin you say well but I would you were found herein true of your promise for then your HN. and hys doctrine with hys prophesies should not haue such credit amoÌ„g you as appeareth if his doctrine be not directly agaynst the Lorde our God and hys commaundementes I apeale vnto the iudgement of all God his Children that shall reade these conferences You accompt none vngodly but such as blaspheme the Lord and despise his most holy seruice of loue Whome you accompt blasphemers before is declared iâ— any speake aagaynst your HN. or your Family of loue Ipso faâ—to he is a blasphemer then all the worlde which doe despise your Familye are blasphemers your conclusion must needes fall out euen so whereby appeareth what reuerent opinion you haue of any and of al that are not of your Family if you learned this of HN. consider better of it for very shame of y worldâ— if no reuereÌ„ce nor feare of God can moue you You confesse that there is no man righteous vntill the Lord deliuer him froÌ„ hys vnrighteousnes but howe we are deliuered you wee greatly vary we according vnto the holy Scripture do acknowledge Christ to be our righteousnes which he hath wrought perfectly in him selse which by fayth wee apply to our vnrighteousnes hys obedieÌ„ce his loue his pacience c. we by fayth apply to our disobedience to our hatred to our impacience c. all what was in Christ is made ours by grace yet still wee in our earthen vessels are coâ—rupt sinâ—ull and vâ—yde oâ— anye suche vertues as the law requireth But â—ou on the contrarye affirme that by Christ working in vs by hys spirite we are made righteous and so clensed from our vnrighteousnes that we are chaunged into hys perfection so that in all our actions wordes and thoughts nothing can â—low oâ— pâ—ocâ—ede from vs but sucâ—e as procâ—ede â—rom Christ because we are guyded by the same spirite but whether you or wee speake truth let the holy Scriptures beare witnesse then may be say that the Lord is his righteousnes it is very true but how and in what manner the Lord may be sayd to be our righteousnes is to be vnderstoode we acknowledge y hee in hys owne person is our righteousnes and sanctificatioÌ„ but you will haue hys righteousnes wrought in you by his spirtie the difference coÌ„sisteth in the maâ—er we acknowledge in him all strength all piety all obedience and in our selues all weakenes all vngodlinesse and all disobedience but you will needes haue all in all to be in vs whiche to much blemisheth hys glory and triumph if we shoulde also in our persons triumph our triumph standeth not in doing but in beleeuing in him which did Therefore as you haue charged vs wrongfully to be aduocats for sinne so may we rightly call yâ—u Patrons for our corrupt rotten and earthen vessels Vitell. MOre you are offended at the confession of the Familye of Loue vnderstand the matter well that there is no man coÌ„pelled therevnto but if any one be wounded or trobled in his coÌ„science then he may to his coÌ„fort make his euel thoughts or els what manifest vnto a priest or Elder aâ—cording vnto the counsell of the holy scripture Also I thinke it is an ordinauÌ„ce in the Church of England that if any one be troubled in minde he shall come and aske counsell of the person or minister and I thinke he must then make manifest his thoughtes c. And the Catholiâ—k ReligioÌ„ holdeth thought word and deede but there are many that will compell men to deâ—lare their thoughts â–ª whiâ—h 〈◊〉 nâ—â—ther pâ—iestes nor Ministers of the â—ord Aunswere TOuching your coÌ„fessioÌ„ which â—ou acknowledge to be voluntary and not coaâ—ted I haue signified my dislyking your Auâ—thor HN. doâ—h say it is expedient that they of his Familye make maniâ—est all that hath bin coÌ„mitted both what it is wherevnto our nature draweth vs vnto here it apppeareth â–ª if you follow your Author directly he leueth the matter not so voluntary as of necessitye And this must be done as you say vnto a pâ—iest or Elder to please the Papitles I thinke you haue added this worde priest but we tell you that such manner of confession the scriptures allow not of if any be wounded in conscieÌ„ce he may to his comfort repayre to any godly or learned preacher â—o shew his griefe and to receaue counsell and comfort to his consolation by the scripture agaynst the prick of conscience or the law which troubleth many miÌ„s mindes but that of necessitye he must make manifest all thoughts all what our nature doth incline vnto there is no warrant what ordinaunce is in the Church of England you haue not shewed but that he must of necessitye make manifest his thoughts it is vntrue it is left frâ—â— onely by way of perswasion men are moued to repaire in such extremitye to their learned and godly pastors and by no ordinaunce but this appeareth that you accompt not your selfe as any member of this Church of England no maruell for you holde it more safe to professe HN. his Familye then to be an obedient child of Christ his Church Whereof England is a speciall part What the Catholick religion holdeth touching confession is no cloke to shaddow your dealinges with all for we tell both you and them that such a confession as both you and they hold is not agrâ—eing with trueth The Papistes vrge men and accompt them heretickes that deny it and you hold it as an expedient thinge neither haue you both any warrant so to doe Some doe compell men to declare their thoughtes which are neither priestes nor ministers as you affirme who they are you tell vs not yet I suppose you meane the coÌ„missioners who â—xamining your Familye touching their fayth and doctrine found them so suttle by your instructioÌ„s that in y end they required theÌ„ to declare their knowledge what they thought of their Author HN. and I thinke the Magistrate authorised by the Prince may in such cases require vs to maniâ—est what opinion we haue of any Author or what we thinke of him but you haue taught them to say we know him not and therefore to commend him or discommend him wee may not such sleightes you deuise wheÌ„ the Magistrats requireth a trueth at your handes and here is also declared your obedieÌ„ce to rulers your Elders are safe when the poore country people are brought before the Magistrates but when will any of you the â—lders come voluntarily and defend your doctrine and proue it good by souÌ„d argumeÌ„t it
scarce credible But at â—mden from that day to this opeÌ„ly he durst not be séene therefore some other matter was layd to his charge then professing a strange doctrine For his credite sake it had beâ— conuenient to haue geuen some reason to proue that he was accused for no other cause let the world iudge indifferently where is more probabilitye Vitell. ANd after there was iustice desired then they restored agayne his goodes vnto his children but there was much taking away by the vntrue officers for there was no inuitory taken therof but whether he went and where he had his abode that shall in tyme be manifest when as the Lord shall moue the hartes of the Magesâ—â—ates to desâ—re to know the ground of the trueth then shall it all be declared to them but the trueth thereof is yet vnknowen vnto you therefore you may be content and not trouble your selfe therwiâ—h Answere THe Magâ—strates you say redeâ—iuered hâ—â— goodes to his children therfore they were men that imbraced Iustice and so would they haue ministred Iustice to HN. If he would â— stayd but the safest way was to preuent the matter by flight you are very â—riuye to HN. and his doingâ—s that can so redely tell what was missing now the Magestrates here shall know the trueth where he is and where he hath made his abode euer since but sure it is little to be regarded where he is and I thinke the Magestrates doe hartely wishe that he had neuer ben borne nor you neither he for deuising your new familye and you for publishing the same to our countrye and translating tâ—e bookes which certainly was not done lyke a godly Christâ—aÌ„ nor a true â—nglish harted man For in â—eede as I am informed you are of the Dutch race your selfe and so appearâ—th by your vaine and curious hed salling froÌ„ one error to another as those countrymen are apt vnto â—f the boâ—kâ—s had remained in dutch our quiet Country should neuer haue â—in troubled with this new familye to the griefe oâ— God his childreÌ„ whiâ—h bewaile y state that you haue brought many vnto at this day veye well assured that although ye lurke in corners and send fourth your Libels you cannot escape his handes who seeth euery corner of our hartes And as HN. by slight would not abide the triall of his matter euen so doe ye follow the same course sayle rightly by his compas for stand to your doctrine nor come to conference you dare not but priuily insinuat your doctrine where your wordes are taken for Oracles The Magestrates would gladly that you should geue a reason more agreable to truth of your dealinges and doctrine as for HN. where he became or where he is they little passe and wheâ—e you say that to me the trueth is vnknowen it may be as you say neither will I trouble my selfe much therein but that you of his Familye might imbrace trueth is my chiefe purpose which cannot be in my opinion holding your selues captiue to the illusions of HN. Vitell. FVrthermore you say that he doth cal himselfe Restorer of al things whereunto I aunswere that there is no suâ—h word written by him and yet hath thâ— Lord accomplished according to his promises through the â—piriâ—â— of Christ in him all that he hath spoken through the mouth of his seruauntâ—s the Prophets more where you say that HN. cannot erre or miâ—â—e the right c. I know not how hee or any one should erre whiâ—hâ— is indewed with the holy Ghost led by the spiâ—ite of Christ which leadeth into all trueth Aunswere THat he doth so call himselfe I haue written therein as I â—inde it collected by the commissioners who delt specially in that matter but you affirme as much or more of him then I charged him with For you say that the Lorde â—ath accomplished through the spirite of Christ in him all that he hath spoaken through the mouth of his Prophetes and this we thinke to be very straingely auouched of you contrary to trueth the Prophecyes of such whome the Lord raysed vp to coÌ„fort the weake estate of his Church in the tyme of the law were fulfilled in their seasons especially such prophesyes as either touched the captiuitye of the Iewes or the destruction of their Citie also many of their prophesies concerned the comming of our merciful Messias the maner of his byrth passion death and resurrection Now to affirme that all these are fulfilled in â—â— is very horâ—â—ble and moÌ„strous but such is your vanitye that so you may extoll the dignitye of your Aucthor you care not what vntruthes ioyned with blasphemye you vtter the lyke speach HN. auoucheth of himselfe saying what God hath spoken â—hrough hâ—s holy Prophets what is written of Châ—ist should also in vs and with vs beâ—ome fâ—lâ—illed c. â—ow you are able by any shaddow of trueth to proue anâ— of these two sayinges true it had bin requisite that you should a shewed for they carry great absurdityes both in trueth and reason Whether doe you lift vp your Aucthor by such vntrue speaches it doth appeare very lamentable to all God his children this is proude bosting and exaltation such as S. Paule did warne the Church to take heede of such I doe much maruell that Christian men with any face can write thus presumpteouslye of mortall man although you would qualisye your saying that this is brought to passe by the spirite of Christ in him but this helpeth not neither doth it stand with the will of God reueled that any mortall creature should be so exalted For if we should demaund of you how we shall know this to be true then you aunswere by his workes which I thinke you meane his bookes Yf otherwise you meane some miraculous dealing which you are priuy of and not knowen it were necessary for his credit and your honesty not to hide it any longer but simply to manifest the same Moreouer you say that none can erre which are indued with the holy ghost c. We know that the spirite leadeth into al trueth yet those vessels hauing by grace such priuiledge doe often in shew and countenaunce appeare as though the spirite were queÌ„â—hed or as fire raked vp in ashes example here of Peter who hauing the spirite of God yet did thingâ—s contrary to trueth and therefore was rebuked by Paule and that worthely many in Christ his Church no dout haue bin guided by the spirite of God and yet sometymes haue shewed theÌ„selues humane creatures as wanting that excellent priuiledge appropriate to Christ which sayd I am trueth such is our condition we may not reach higher not to erre is a speciall title belonging to Christ our Lord and not to mortall man although lightened with the spirite we must rest conteÌ„t with such honor as it pleaseth him to graunt who is Lord of his creatures and not to reach so high as presumpteously to chalenge a title and dignity farre aboue our capacitye and not
agreing with our frayle condition and nature But such is our vanitye not guided by the spirite of God to aduaunce our state and calling aboue our degree and condition by the setting on of our enemy Sathan Vitell. NOw I doe maruell why you be so enuious agaynst that name HN. wil you not permit the Lord to geue names to his ministers according to the worke that he will accomplish by them or doe you think that the names are geueÌ„ to the outward creature then are you much deceiued No my beloued the seruauntes of the Lord are children of Loue ascribe no names of holynes as dew to the outward person For they know that they are but fraile eaâ—then vessels beare their names according to their vertues whiche God hath geuen them and submit them humbly and obediently as serviceable instrumâ—ts to serue the lord their neiâ—hbour therfore I would councell you to looke iâ—to your selues marke what 〈◊〉 good thinking spirites rule 〈◊〉 wherethrough ye blaspeme diâ—piâ—e dishonor the tâ—ple or tabernaâ—lâ— of the Lord. Answere AGaynst the two letters of HN. I am not enuyous only against such doctrine as he doth teach contrary to the scripture whereby you as an Ipocrite haue seduced the people and led theÌ„ into error and corrupt wayes to hinder the Lord of his purpose it resteth not in mortal man If HN. be a name signifiyng some office why hath neither he nor you manifested y same but plead ignorance that it signifieth some hâ—e misterye which you nor we know not now as HN. is a name geueÌ„ by the Lord as you affirme according to the worke that he will establish by him so doth his fellow Elder â—idelitas looke for lyke credit whose wordes I will repeate as they be written in his booke called A distâ—nciâ—e declaration of the requiring of the Lord c. In the First chap. 1â— seâ—ion â—e hath these wordes following but fire or bend alwayes all your sight oâ— me Fidelitas and consider how that the Lord hath choseÌ„ me euen froÌ„ my very byrth out of my Mothers wombe to the obedience of the requiring of his word For that I with you and yee also with me according to the requiring of the testimonyes of his gracious word should become vnited therein and so to growe of one vniforme being with ech other in the same c. You shew vs in the 29. sexion that through HN. his priestes office the Lord will receaue all men in mercy but for Fidelitas office as yet we know not what it is and in deede there were neuer any that would challenge such names as these elders doe affirme that they signifie their office and calling certayne players vpon stages would declare thâ—â—r names representinâ— câ—rtâ—ine â—eâ—â—ueâ— to seâ— out their matters somâ— wâ—â—e callâ—d truâ—th some hope some â—aithfulnesse but in sadnes to set â—owne such names to siâ—niâ—â—e 〈◊〉 which thâ— Lord as yâ—u affirme will accomplish by them is meere impâ—etie But where the Lord geueth names it appeareth by their calling and such aâ—e their workes and sayinges as geâ—eth testimony sâ—fficient to their vocation â—ut â—our HN. câ—n shew no sufficient markes wherby any but seduced persoâ—s should geue credite to his wordes onely a paâ—nted shew and barren heaping vp of woâ—des darkly appliâ—d without conclusion or sence sauing you and such lâ—ke that finde great misterâ—es in his sentences carying such credit among you as is not seeming Christians The Lord gaue names to sundry vnder the law as Isaack Sampson Iohn â—aptist c. But doth it follow that HN. is a name geuen by the lord Proue vnto vs that the Lord hath established his name your friuolous cauill that HN. signifieth 〈◊〉 will not serue such bables are scarce sufficiâ—Ì„t to meâ—k children therefore you must deuise some better 〈◊〉 Some of your Familye haue written that HN. signifieâ—h some greater matter then either you â–ª or wee can tell of such incertentyes hoâ— you auâ—uch of your HN. For vncertayne doctrine must haue certayne â—idden misteryes to amase the heares mindes or els no doubt â–ª the drift of doâ—â— me would easely be espied Therefore you must deâ—ise some hidden sâ—â—retes whereby to cary a shew of profâ—â—â—d mâ—tter That names are geuen by men in these dayes and not by God there is no doubt or question but you would sayne haue HN. to be a name geuen of God to signifie a calling you geue vs no reasâ—n so to thinke but woulde haue vs beleue it is so because you say so then were we vayn heads and vncâ—nstant mindes For we depende so stricktly vpon the scrâ—ptures of God that no spirite no 〈◊〉 nor no Angel teaching other 〈◊〉 can be a coâ—ted or beleued amongst vs so ceâ—tayn is our faith and so inuincible is that truth which by the Scriptures we held In that you tâ—e Children of y loue ascribe no names of holynes vnto the outward person it is a mistery we aâ—e ignorant of we simply geue names to our children in baptisme without signification of holynes touching the Inâ—ant the names may signifie holynes but that the person carrying the same name shall be indewed therwith that are we ignorant of If you haue such hidden misteries among you it were good the world should not be ignorant of it We commit the successe and euent of such hidden secrets to the lord Of enuyous good thinking spirites that rule in vs you councel vs to looke to without your councell God willing we meane to follow the councel of the Lord our God which willeth vs not to beleue euery spirite c. And yet I neuer heard before of enuyous good thinking spirits But such a grace you haue not only to forge new doctrine but new names of Spirits also In speaking against HN. you wold insinuate that we blaspheme despise and dishonoâ— the temple or tabernacle of the lord Doth it follow necessarily that they that speake against HN. blaspheme despise c. And is he the temple or tabernacle of the Lord vndoubtedly we are all deceaued then For I assure you we take him to be an erroneous spirit a fantastical hed possessed with pride of minde Sathan blowing the belowes The Lord working therby the exercise of his church If you haue other opinioÌ„ of HN. warrant or grouÌ„d so to do haue you none But beâ—ause you will not beâ—eeue the truth therefore are strong illusions sent whereby you might be deceaued Looke into the holy Scriptures with a more single minde and it shall be easily perceiued Vitell. MOrâ—ouer you say that the illuminat â—lders sin not I would you knew what you say forth you should vnderstand that they do lord and preuaile with God and Câ—â—ist ouer the sinne and haue no pleasure to commit sinne therfore they teach men the godly obedience whereby they might be frends with God but they that haue pleasure in sinne are the seruants of â—inne and are enemies to the Lord. Answere I Haue sayd that the
acknowledge themselues to be felow Elders with the Elder HN. and magnifie his office and calling abouâ— measure and protest with great vehemency that such wonderfull workes as are brought forth through the same HN. could not be wrought unles the Lord God were with him And these strange names of their Elders do maruelously astonish our English people Elidad as I haue learned is an Hebruâ— word and signyfieth dilecâ—us Dei. the beloued of God which is a proper title belonging to our Sauiour Christ. This is my beloued sonne c. And that we generally are in him and by him beloued there is no dout so is be still the beloued And that some of their Elders name themselues Fidelitas so others that belike are not come to so high degree name theÌ„selueâ— Amatores Charitatis It is a world to see how these men delite in such vayne shewes of piety and thinke to get credite by these coloured meanes which to the godly seemeth ridiculous and too too fond And thus much coÌ„cerning the bokes in latin by occasioÌ„ of the Dutch wherin note this Christian Reader that wheras the Italian Pope would haue all in latin this other Pope and dutch Antichrist would haue all in Dutch as a predestinate tongue to open his prophesies and misteries of that Lord. All the quotations of holy scripture that HN. vseth to proue that he is rysen from the dead to iudge the world do proue in deede that Iesus Christ hath rysen from the dead must they therfore auouch HN. his resurrection See good Reader the presumptuous spirite of Sathan so setled in these for â—orne â—dames â–ª that through the eating of that forbidden fruite wherethrough they would become as god that is deiâ—â—ed they are wholy become sathanified or diuilyfied Strange names I confesse but very significant propeâ— for such strange Christians Was not Christ Iesus mightely declared to be God by the resurrection from y dead If this resurrection were the mightyest declaration or argument proofe that Christ was God iudge Christian Reader â–ª if HN. maketh not himself not only God but Christ and so the promised séede And in deede you your selfe Vitell haue affirmed him to be a Prophet before in thiâ— place you cal him a priest geue him also the name of a king and then is he Christ a new Messiaâ— for by his resurrection he maketh him selfe god Such an Antichâ—ist â— thinke should neuer haue beene heard of if that the Children of God had not beene warned in the gospell that many false Christes should come into the world and such dangerous dayâ—s that if it were possible the elect of God should be deceaued But blessed be God whâ— euer is ready to preserue his electe by Christ sâ— that perish in â—ecoiuable wayeâ— they shall not such a care hath the Lord ouer his Now HN. and his â—â—istes office shall appeare where through the Lord will receaue all men O impudent wretâ—hes haue we not a deliuerer euen the Lord Iesus who doth not onely receaue vs but continually protect vs and minister to vs all thinges both heauenly and earthly which are expedient for vs but will you blasphemously open your mouthes that wee shall be receiued by the Priestes office of your HN. No godly Christian can heare this without griefe What â—erogatioÌ„ is this to our merciful Lord and Sauiour that now a wretched man possessed with a lamentable spirite shall take vpon him his office and calling where through we shall be receaued Oh manisefâ—st impietye Oh exeâ—rable iniquitye which no patience can beare Seing you publishe â—uch doctrine in writing with deliberation what doctrine doe you teâ—ch in corners to your Family where no maÌ„â—are open hiâ— mouth agaynst any blasphemy that you doe vtter â–ª In such credâ—â— are you â—â—ept but wo worth y hed that seekes to 〈◊〉 the simple with such horrible doctrine Your 〈◊〉 â—ayd that I know not HN. but as it was sayd to Serinthus the heretique I know him to be the first begotten sonne of SathaÌ„ But the Lord hath geuen his Church the spirite of trueth to direâ—â— them from all such vâ—yne boastes of iniquitye So lykewise O Lord geue thy holy spirit to the simple seduced in y Familye â–ª that they may behold the blasphemyes which their Elders in wickednes doe teach agaynst the son of God Christ Iesus Vitell. FVrthermore you write very vntruly of HN. where you say that no man be he neuer so learned or godly can vnderstand or interpreat the scriptureâ— for I am sure there are no such wordes written by him therfore I must needes say they are lyes and false iudgementes with wrong interpretatioÌ„s almost all what you write of him and of his workes and euen so are most of your interpretationâ— which you alledge of Christ and his Apostles doctrine For if so be they I meane HN. his bookes might be perused of vnparciall Iudges then your iudgement would be found euen lyke their iudgement which coÌ„demned Susanna but the Lord raysed vp Daniell which is the iudgement of God and deliuered the giltles vnto whome we commit our cause For he will iudge vprightly and reward euery one according to his deedes Aunsweâ—e WHat HN. hath pronouÌ„ced of all other mens vnderstaÌ„ding of the scripture I will here agayne set down that the reader may iudge who is in the lye Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deceitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminated men out of the imagination or of their owne knowledge and out of the learnednes of the scriptures bring forth institute preach and teach they preach in deede the letâ—er and the imagination of their knowledges but not the word of the liuing God. And in an oâ—her place â—o diuâ— â–ª codem cap. 〈◊〉 theÌ„ esteme themselues so holy as they will they are a false Christianitye and Diuells sinagogue or schole c. with many other places to lyke effect so that HN. still teacheth his Familye that it is geueÌ„ to the Familye of Loue to vnderstand the secretes thereof Now let the indiffereÌ„t reader iudge whether HN. exempt not all but him and his from the true vnderstanding of the scriptures all men which are not godded with God he tearmeth fleshly minded and earthly in cogitations and intreateth whole chapters of such men he sayth That a fleshly and earthly man out of his naturall and scripture learned vnderstaÌ„ding hath not any sight or knowledge at all thereof he iâ— so vtterly voyd of the same that he cannot vnderstand the smallest title thereof much lesse expound the same according to the trueth to an other c. So that it appeareth pâ—ayne that nono but HN. and his illuminat Elders can vnderstand the samâ— â–ª â—â—ccording to trueth You say if HN. his bookes might be perused of vnpartiall Iudges then should his case be found as innocent as Susanna Those vnparcial Iudgeâ— that you would haue are you and your fellow Elders in the Familye For I doe truely affirme that no
will not ioy nor rest in peace vntill all your errors be disclosed and â—ou and your fellowes be brought to â—umble your selues before the Lord without your HN. which the Lord bring spedely to passe Amen Vitell. NOw must I for want of tyme passe ouer and omit many thinges and submit my cause vnto the almighty desiring him of his goodnes for to try our cause in his ballaunâ—e of equitye euen with the Loue and trueth for so shall there then be expressed and testified by the light or Christ that Gods honour is declared with the Loues seruice most sincerely Aunswere THis Libel was not long enough but he muâ—â— oâ—â—t much matter and so as he sayth submit his cause vnto the almighty c. â—ut if you did as becoÌ„meth a true Christian you should not onely submit your cause vnto the Lord who in patience suâ—freth Ipocrites to trouble his Church but also submit your doctrine to be tryed and iudged by his holy word which is a iust iudge in all causes of controuersy For if your protestation shall be admitted without exception theÌ„ euill doers and blasphemers of God and Christ may haue liberty to referre their cause vnto the Lord but since almighty God hath in earth a knowen Church it is requisite that euery one being required should geue account of his fayth and hope as the scriptures doe teach you would haue your cause tryed in the ballaunce of equitye a truer ballance is not then his law which is without blot or wrinkle if you would abide the tryall thereof your doctrine and your patrone HN. should be found lighter then vanitye it selfe Where you adde with the Loue trueth the Loue you so often confound that you know not your selues the meaning thereof sometyme you wil signifie Christ by that name loue sometime a vertue procéeding sometyme a qualitye of the minde sometyme for the exercise which you priuately vse where to finde the exposition of this word Loue you leue it as vncertaine then it shall be expressed you say by the light or Christ that by you God his honor is declared with the Loues seruice sincerely here is Loue agayne ioyned with seruice which cannot meane as I thinke any thing â—lls but God his seruice I take it in the best part if you haue any other more secret misterye therein I leaue to your selues but touching any seruice you doe to God it is Ipocrysye so long as you serue him without Christ or with any other and Christ for he will admit no other to haue place in mens hartes but himselfe he made all he requireth all Vitell. OH what a dauÌ„gerous tyme is it presently in these last dayes and how vnrightly haue many vnregenerated men set vp themselues to geue iudgement with their good thinking For whatsoeuer euery one mindeth thinketh good and electeth â—ther falleth to that same prayseth and iudgeth he for the most best and for a righteousnes thereto also he wresteth the scripture according to his will for the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one euen as he is minded be it whatsoeuer to be high minded in pleasant lustes either to be debased in misery to be merâ—y or sorowfull with sighing either with thankes to be despised and persecuted or to persecute and despise one an other and many such lyke c. Answere OF the dauÌ„gerous tyme we are not ignorant of and more we tell you that you and your fellowes make the tyme much more daungerous and troublesome with your errors which HN. and you haue raysed vp Now you complayne that vnregenerat men haue set vp themselues you meane by vnregenerat men all others which are not illuminat nor deifâ—ed as your Elders are The children of God for whome Christ dyed whose names are written in the booke of lyfe are regenerate although as I haue sayd before you account none to be regenerat but such as haue no motions of sinne or sinne not but you say that the same vnregenerat men with their good thinking â–ª that same he prayseth and iudgeth for righteousnes but who might worse alledge the same then you who câ—mmâ—nd without reason or cause your Auâ—hor and his moÌ„strous doâ—trinâ— which hath in it such grosse absurdâ—â—yes and most contrary to God and his word and you are they that peâ—uert the scripture to set vp your Prophet and his doctrine and what is spoken of Christ doe you not wickedly apply the same to your HN. doe you not apply this place of Malarhy chap. 3. which our Sauiour Christ verefied to be propesied of Iohn behold I will send my messenger which shall prepare the way before me Againe Math. 11. he shall turne the hart of the Fathers to the children and the hartes of the children c. doe you not I say apply these places to signifye your HN. and that it is ment by him therefore there are none found such wresters of the scriptures as you And where as you affirme that the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one therein you shew what reuerence you haue vnto y same for although you such others do abuse the scripture contrary to y purpose of y holy ghost yet are the scriptures y wisedome of God reuealed to man and is a perfit law of righteousnes and not as you vngodly and vnreuerently tearme it seruiceable vnto euery one Your companions the Papistes haue as you doe called the scripture a nose of ware a shipmans hose c. but most wickedly and falsely to both your confusions it is the power of God vnto saluatioÌ„ Vnto them that beleue the sauour of lyfe vnto lyfe but vnto such as you are which so vnreuerently speake thereof it is the sauor of death vnto death the scriptures doe not maintayne pleasant lustes nor high mindes as you vnreuerently suppose but they are to comfort and lift vp the sorrowfull and broken mindes and to beate downe and correa the hauty and proud stomackes If vngodly men such as you are abuse them to other purposes the fault is in the persons not in the word Vitell. WHereunto euery one wresteth the scripture and defendeth his cause therewith insomuch that euery one thinketh that he for his part hath the most best Behold with such a misery is the man plagued such manner of good thinking and vnprofitable burthen hath he taken vpon him oh that we left all such and gaue ouer our vnderstanding captiue ether suffred it to be pluâ—kt vnder the obedience of the loue of Iesu Christ and followed after the coÌ„mon brotherly loue innocently or vndeceitfully and continued concordably in prayer vnto God â—l that God receiued vs to mercy released vs froÌ„ the sin of the ignorant knowledge and established his promise on vs to the laud prayse and honor of his holy name and to our saluation Aunswere YF euery one wrest the scripture where shall wee finde Christ his Church who is led by the spirite of trueth according to his promise thâ— greatest wresters of
AN Answere vnto a wicked infamous Libel made by Christopher Vitel one of the chiefe English Elders of the pretended Family of Loue Maintaining their doctrine carpingly answeringe to certaine pointes of a boke called the displaing of the Fam. Aunswered by I. Rogers AT LONDON Printed by Iohn Daye dwelling ouer Aldersgate Anno. 1579. Cum Priuilegio Regiae Maiestatis To the right honourable Syr Frauncis VValsingham chiefe Secretary vnto the Queenes most excellent Maiesâ—y and of her honorable Councell Grace and Peace in Christ our Lord. HAuing before this set forth a small tretise displaing a sort of men in this our countrey of England imbracing an Author vnder two letters H and N. about sixe monethes agoe I haue receaued since from the same persons sundry letters contayning matter against the doctrine publickly taught in the church of England and answering certain matters contayned in the sayd booke called The displaying of the Family of Loue which answeres some I haue put in print the rest remayn wherof this Libel is one of the chiefest and as the same doth witnesse is made and compiled by one of the chiefe of that sect and the only man which was the occasion that any of HN his doctrine became conuersant with our natiue Countrey people a thing greatly to be lamented The name of the party is Christofer Vitel sometime a Ioyner of London and infected with that infamous doctrine of Airius â—0 yeares agoe â–ª whose credâ—â—e among the pretended Family of Loue is very great and therefore I haue vsed more diligence in answering the same Being Right honorable unboldened to present the same vnto your honor vpoÌ„ vew and tast of your good inclination towardâ—s the true Church of Christ and the purging out of the same all disorders and discords that therin groweth or which blemisheth that beloued bride as much as in your honor lyeth And if herein I shall seeme ouer bold or presumptuous considering my rude and vnlearned capacity I haue many examples which may serue for my excuse For where should men publishing error seeke defence but vnder the name and protection of such as through the Lords dispensatioÌ„ and gift of singular wit doe vnderstand falshood at the first sight and haue authoritie to correct the same and hate error and corruption of a zeale to the glory of god and a care of true Religion and by rate goodnes of nature doe loue the truth and also sufficiently adorned with corage to defend the same Accept therefore most honorable these my rude labors in â—â—norable part and geue iudgement where trueth lyeth Accept my serâ—iceable hart to further the glory of christ his church and not the simple vtterance and smal skil with les learning as by the handling appeareth Also consider the prouideÌ„ce of our God which ruleth his childreÌ„ by his beck and hath appointed your honor as a speciall Patrone in his Church to heare the griefe and gronings thereof and to vnderstand and see that truth be not defaced troden downe or spurned at by heretickes or wicked Atheistes which the mixed Church is too too full of And as the Lord hath made your honor to feele the sweetnes of his sonne our Sauiour So I am perswaded that you bende your singular care and deep consideration that this our countrey of England might be free from hereticks deprauers of Christ his glory And if it might please your honor to consider the root and ground froÌ„ whence this strange doctrin grew the practises and meanes by which it is maintained and supported And by this litle sayd by me consider with all what might be sayd against this doctrine of H N. by men of knowledge and skill And finding the roote nothing els but singularitie ambition pride and carnall liberty The shore and pillers that vphold it wrong application of the holy Scriptures counterfaite shewes of piety c. your honor shall perceiue I dout not how litle true reason these men haue or sound argument to proue the particulars of their doctrine the body and substance being found in deede but a lumpe of olde worne heresies newly hatcht by H N. Fidelitas and â—lidad men come out of the cloudes as they would haue the world beleeue And as this doctrine hath increased and spred it selfe in many shires of this Realme So if I should declare what euent doth follow in many places it were scarce credible The fountaine or foundation thereof is the opinion that these men haue that they keepe the law of God in euery point as he requyreth â—er of commeth their doctrine of perfection attayned vnto in this life and as they tearme it the beginning of immortality then being made perfecte they imagine themselues to be Godded with God or incorporate to God I will vse their own tearmes with whom God in one being of his spirit is hommisied or become man. Now hauing once planted this doctrine what Sathan can worke with this perswasion is easily perceiued For when this doctrine is once beleeued that their Elders caÌ„not sinne and whatsoeuer they commit it cannot be sinne because they are guyded by the spirite And when all feare to offend or conscience of sinne is excluded to all boldnes and liberty to liue after our liking a very window is opened As there is no reason to maintayn this nor truth to vphold this So it is very necessary that the simple people should be warned to beware of this so suttle a doctrine which they like very well of because their teachers and Elders vnder preteÌ„ce of plausible precepts delyuered to the simple at the first taste of a godly life which asore any thing they must imbrace with many shewes of mortificatioÌ„ TheÌ„ must they grow to the manly oldnes in the loue which is that perfection which they dreame of But the secret part of their doctrine is hid from the most parte And all their bookes are not made coÌ„mon to all as containing to strong meate for weake stomaches therfore their glas of righteousnes few must looke into least their whole vanity and corruption should be espyed That booke therefore is a rare birde among this Family And this suttlety doth Sathan worke to deceaue the simple to keep certaine secret misteries and doctrine to worke admiration in the hartes of deceaued people Right honorable I haue set downe this part of their doctrine as a tast what other matters they maintayne by perusing this small treatâ—se shall easely be espied how their chiefe Elder HN. is exalted and called a Prophet and that his prophesies shal be proued true and also they account of HN. in office to be a priest and say that through his priestes office God will receaue all men to mercy so that our only Lord Sauiour is smally accounted of his offices are bestowed vpon HN. These thinges are too too absurd Right honorable and worthy to be buryed in silence had not SathaÌ„ raysed vp his impes to trouble his Church with these blasphemies agaynst which I
Fideliâ—as he would haue vs beleeue that Nâ— pronounceth and declareth the right state of all what is in heauen and vpon earth what is Gods and mans spiritual and heauenly naturall right and reasonable c. Belike he thought his bookes should neuer haue been perused by any but of such as are drowned in the drowsie dremes oâ— this fantastical doctrine One More of â—uâ—â—er in â—â—â—ng â—â—wardes dayes and one 〈…〉 of Manchester in this our Quéenes dayes tolde of such vayne and friuoloâ—s matters but they were punished as Lunatikes And whereas your Fidelitas sayth that no such works could be wrought by anye vnlesse the Lord were with him this is as strongly affirmed as the other part is monstrous and vngodly For I praye you examine what are the works that HN. hath so notably brought forth which doth manifest y God is with him His bookes peraduenture you meanâ— What his bookes are and out of what spirit they procéed is easely perceiued A simple wit hauing such a guide could deuise agaynst Christ his doctrine as fine riddles as HN. hath published should carry a more shew of truth then his bookes do For schollers and children are able to confute his follies sufficiently they cary such absurdities with them both against the Scriptures of God and against all common reason and nature The kingdome of Israell shal be set vp again the childreÌ„ of loue shall raigne therin you say but when shall this your prophesie take place you tell vs not In deede Dauid George tolde vs before the like propheâ—y that the true house of Dauid should be erected and the children of loue should raigne therin Why delite you your selues with such speaches For in this worlâ— these thinges according to the letter â—hall not happen but they are spoken to assure vs of the resurrection and to shadow the ioyes of the kingdome of heauen whereby our harts should be lifted vp with expectation of his promise Vitell. BEhold these be the causes wherthrough the lord hath moued me to minister the seruice of loue vnto other wherein I haue sought only the honor of God and the saluation of al people which hope in god and long for his righteousnes Also I haue through the goodnesse of the lord met with certan good willingnons which haue submitted them obediently and faithfully vnto the lord and his gratious word which also haue followed the couÌ„cel of christ to the clensing of their hartes and therin doth their light shine before men wherin they seeke the laude of the lord and the saluation of all meÌ„ Answere WHen you had séene dissention vprores contentioÌ„ c. in the world then the Lord you say moued you to minister the seruice of loue vnto others you toke the aforesayd â—robles as a fit occasion geueÌ„ you to begin your doctrine surely you bewâ—ay your selfe in your speach You thought it was good fishing when the waters were troubled and tooke occasion to teach false doctrine when you saw great broiles and tumults in the world But where you affirme that the Lord moued you to do this â–ª wherby shall we know that this your bare affirmation is true onely because you say so but the holy Ghost hath warned vs not to geue credit to such Ier. 14. ver 14. sayth The Prophetes prophesie lâ—es in my name I haue not sent them nether did I commaund them nether did I speake to them but they prophesie to you a falâ—e vision diuination vanity and deâ—eitfâ—lnes of their own harts Also Eze. 13. ver 3. Wo be to the foolish Prophets that follow their own spirit haue seene nothing We may not beleue euery spirit but try the spirit whether he be of God Iohn 4.1 The Lord moued you not to leue your arte calling and to minister a strange doctrine to the people but the spirit of pride and vaynglory and a desire of singularity puâ—t vp your mind Like as in time past you did as eagerly maintayn other strange monsterous opinions The causes that moued you to spred your doctrine are not sufficient you haue thrust in your selfe into a function and calling nether allowed of god nor ordayned by mâ—n and thiâ— your ministery is disobedience to God and the publick magistrate neither hâ—ue you herein fought the honor of God â–ª saluation of al people as you afâ—irmâ— If you had sought God his honor your voice should publickly haue been heard and not in corners In that you haue met with certayn good willing ones which haue submitted themselues c. therin we beshrew you lament that any simple soules are deceiued by your perswasions and in deede it seemeth some such there are that geue eare to your sugred wordes For the poyson of aspes is vnder youre tongue Psal. 14. Why come you not â—orth to mayntayn such doctrine as you haue taught why proue you not your doctrin by the holy Scripture Why suffer you your schollers to be troubled and imprysoned but for your selfe you are saâ—e inough and when they should render a reason of their hope and faith then they vtterly deny your doctrine It séemeth that such a principle you haue taught theÌ„ to affirme and to deny only keeping their conscience secret Now where you say that your good willing ones or schollers their light hath shone before men wherâ—by you would heare vs in hand that your pupilâ— be men of excellent life as you set them out so do they your life as appeares by their letters so one of you commeÌ„deth and prayseth another anâ— so must you â—éedes do when you want good neighborâ— y best way iâ— to praise your selues Vitell. ALso I haue geuen forth certayn bookes which are translated word for word as neare as we could out of the bokes of HN. and some of them haue come to the hands of enuyous persoÌ„s which are diuilâ—ed with the deuill either diuelishly minded for they be slaunderers and liâ—rs and also blasphemers whilest they haue â—laâ—phemed thâ— holy Ghost and hiâ— most holy seruice of loue Moreouer they hauâ—â—ayled at â—euyled condemned despised and blasphemed the Lord his elected minister HN. If this come not out of enuy although they say nay then I know no enuyous spirites And although there be many enuiors of the loue and her most holy seruice yet are theâ—e two horryble blasphemers of late rysen vp whose bookes arâ— come to my hands The one is named Steuen Batman the othâ—r I.R. But they might both be named with one name Tertullus if they coÌ„tâ—nue in their lying wherof I must wryte although I haue no pleasure in such workers of wickednes Aunswere THat the bokes of HN. were translated out of Dutch by you we knew before but in distributing them to the Quéenes subiects without any allowance of the magistrate contrary to law therin we tel you you haue not dealt liâ—e a â—rue subiect nor a christiaÌ„ you complayned of disobedience to magistrates but you your selfe are the most disobedient of
you seeke to intrappe God his children to make them be partakers of your manifest impieties but the Lord will preserue his euermore Vitell. MOreouer wheras you writ the life of HN â–ª of his birth you writ mo lyes then truth therefore it appeareth you know not where he was borne neither was he euer at Mâ—ster as you sayd nor any man for him For he was euer against all rebellion and disorder of life and that can be tryed by his works and alo testified yet in Amsterdam for the Rulers permitted him to deale with those sectaries for to see if he could perswade them because they saw the Lord had geuen him wisdome and vnderstanding But euen as it chaunced to our Lord Iesus which was iudged to be a companyon of Publicans and sinners also a wine bibber and a drunkard Euen so do they say of his minister HN. all such things hath hee borne in the patience of Christ c. Answere IN wryting the life of HN. I haue done it by the tâ—stimony of his honest neighboures who knew hun better then you lâ—nger then you and before you knew him Their testimony wil stand for truth although for his crâ—dite sake you wil not beleue it and account it lyes I neuer sayd he was in Munster I affirme that he went about to ayd his brethreÌ„ in Munster as was supposed you say it appeareth by his works that he is against all rebelilion and disorder of life but how doth it appeare by you hiâ— Family to teacâ— a secret doctrine in corners against the law and stir vp the people to imbrace the same â–ª What wisdome and vnderstanding was geuen to him whereof you boast â–ª Little is shewed either in him or you He is a wise man that coÌ„tenteth himself with the simple truth taught in the scriptures anâ— seeketh not by strange deurses to pâ—blisâ— doctrine contrary thâ—runto Wâ—sdome is shewed in humilitie and not iâ— vâ—rne ostentatioâ— and boasting of the spiâ—ite of God and of secret reuelatiâ—â—s wher of your Author is full A wise man delyteth not in singularity neither thinketh speketh nor boasteth of any wisdome in him If God haue bestowed any excellent gifte in man let it appeare to his glory without ostentation â—ou make your compaâ—â—sons vnequall because Christ our Lord vntruely was accused to be a wine bibver a drunkard c. So likewise his minister HN. which he is content to beare in the patience of Christ. What patience is in your Author I know not but if we may discern the patience of the master by his schollâ—rs then I can testifie of many of â—our â—npatience What wordes and blasphemies you haue charged me with bâ— this your libell appeares and whâ—t taunts and vncomely speaches mired with manifest slaunder in your letters appeareth Besides what private letters and threates I haue receaued at your hands of the Family I coulde here declare but that you are so patient as you affirme your HN. is I finde it not The Lord geue vs all patience that in seeking his truth we may imitate his patience which sayd Learn of me c. Vitell. NOw you say he nameth Iohn Caluin Marten Luther the Papistes and the Anabaptistes to be 4. castels whiche is also false For there are no such names mencioned of in all his bookes neither is there anye such bookes of his therefore Adrian Gisling hath tolde you a lye and you haue fortefied iâ— Answere I Sayd in the displeing of the Family that one Adrian Gisling had read in a book called the glasse of righteousnes of 〈◊〉 Castells vnder the same mens names mencioned nowe this man is sure HN. neuer writ any such booke and therefore must needes be a lye I am credibly informed that HN. hath written 27 smale treatises and â—pistles and this man hath seene all as hee sayth but let the thing be true or false the matter is not great the party that told me is liuing and of honest credite and may as well be beleued as you I pray you are there no bookes called the glasse of righteousnes for he compiled ii of that title I neuer saw any of those bookes in deed but if there be no such then HN. hath mocked the Family for he still in his bookes referreth hys reader vnto the same booke called the glasse of righteousnes And in deede I doubt that book doth vtter more of your Aucthors secret doctrine then his smale paÌ„phlets Fewe or none in the Familye haue it that I coulde euer learne if you haue seene all the Authors works then you haue also seene that and you keepe it secret least your Family should not or could not well brooke the doctrine conteined in the same Let the booke be seene and keepe it not hidden it standeth you vpon nowe to let the worlde tast the doctrine which you haue affirmed Princes kingâ—omes afore this tyme should haue imbraced Vitell. MOreouer you sayd he maryed his daughter Mary to a younker that is true but not at EmdeÌ„ also you say that HN. abused a womaÌ„ that is a false report so to report of him for he neuer abused any woman neither taught he any other doctrine concerning the immortality but the doctrine of christ For Christ saiâ—h he that beleeueth in me though he were dead yet should he liue and who so liueth and beleeueth shal neuer dye neither was he accused to the Rulers for any such matter but he was complayned of by certayne enuiouâ— persoÌ„s which affirmed that he was one that taught a strange doctrine and thâ— Maiestrates gaue credite vnto the false witnesses thereupon sought for him and because they founde hym not they delt extreemely with his Family and caried away his goodes Aunswere THat his daughter Mary was maryed to a yonker you affirme Therefore not all are lyes which are by his neighbors reported of him as you sayd before why may not all the rest be true onely you speaking contrary some of these persons were at the mariages which haue testified their knowledge I thinke at that tyme you were not acquainted with HN. nor his doctrine and therefore your bare denyall is onely heresay but these are no great matters to stand vpon you confesse that he could not be found being sought for then was he fled before his accusation was for strange doctrine and not for a woman as you auouch But certeynly If the Magistrates should cary away his goodes â–ª for an accusation of strange doctrine then were they not indifferent neither can I be brought to credit your speach nor thinke so vnreuerently of any Magistrates but why sied he if he were not guilty of any crime In â—mden men know that many Religions had peaceable habitation without gaynsaying of the Magestrat If the spirite of God were so mighty in him as he sayth it is why did he not stay to render a reason of his doctrine before the Magestrate â–ª the perticulers being examined your simple denyall agaynst so many witnesses is
now he beginneth to be knowen and by the great credit and admiration you haue him in the more detestable will he be reputed as a seducer of such men as cannot content themselues wiâ—h such trueth as the scriptures containe but must haue a Prophét raysed vp out of FlauÌ„ders a banished man and one that dare not shew his face in any countrey openly and you had rather imbrace his noueltyes then the wholsome doctrine conteyned in the olde and new testament Vitell. NOw concerning his bookes they be of such Aucthoritye as he affirmeth them but where as you say that he sayth all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught c. marke wel what he writeth and adde nothing thereto and it shall be found true what he writeth more where as you say he commendeth the Pope and Cardenalls with the Masse and other ceremonyes there is none commended but in their right order if you marke the matter well Answere HIs bookes I affirmed that they were in crâ—dite amongest the familye of equall auâ—horitye with the scriptures and that they were written with the same spirite to this you auÌ„swere that they are of such aucthoritye as he hath affirmed thereforâ— note well what you say for neuer any since the Apostles tunes had so impudent a face as openly to publish such a detestable lye if this come not from the spirite of pride I know no proud bosting spirites all the Fathers in the primitiue Church euer reuerenced the holy scripture and submitted all their bookes thereunto Austen desired not to be credited or beleued but as his workes might agree with the holy scriptures all men in generall haue euer acknowledged themselues in their writinges to be subiect to error onely the scripture to be without blemish but this man will haue HN. and his bookes of equall aucthoritye with the scriptures written with the same spirite thus doe you runne from one impietye to an other and in the highest degree of blasphemye But I pray you looke vpon the matter better before you say he is a prophet now his bookes are of equal aucthoritye with the scripture whether will you lift vp your HN. aboue all condition of fraile man the higher he is exalted the more greuous will be his fall without repentaunce it is Luciferian pride thus to attribute vnto mortall man but you make HN to be a name of office and not of a creature such misteryes requireth falced where trueth and simplicitye imbraceth playne dealing Now you say that HN. doth auouch all to be false whatsoeuer is taught by any other therefore heare his owne wordes and then discerne and sée God his trueth and his godly and heauenly workes are vnknowen vnto all fleshe and vnto all fleshly and earthly men but it is geuen to the children of the kingdome the comminaltye of the Loue to vnderstand the secret misteryes thereof You say it will be found true what he writeth If none but the comminaltye or Familye of Loue doe vnderstaÌ„d the scripture then it was not rightly vnderstode before there was any mention of your Familye Now for commendatioÌ„ of the Pope Cardinals and Masse he sayth hee commendeth none buâ— in his right order this speach is ambigâ—us in his right order For simply I thinke none of them haue any shaddow of right order neither is their callinges nor doctrine grounded vpon either right or good order Your Author belyke alloweth the Masse or els he would not haue taken such paynes as to explicat euery ceremonye therein in his booke called A declaratioÌ„ of the Masse but thus with subtiltye of speach you would faine say somewhat to defend your Author be his sayinges neuer so monstrous Vitell. FOr in that booke named a ioyfull message of the kingdome of God Christ though ye deâ—idingly call it his gospell is declared that â—Papa signifieth an olde Father in the holy vndeâ—standing Now althogh he be not indued with the holy vnderstaÌ„ding yet is the name not the worse in it selfe For the Lord hath ordeined gouernours spirituall and temporall and they represent the maiestye of God although now certayne gouernours gouerne not according to the rule of righteousnes yet is not therefore the name euerthelesâ—e of reputation because it is an ordenance of God therefore let vs despise no name that belongeth to gouernours neither yet also any gouernour nor any man els for we haue all sinned haue neede of the grace or mercy of the Lord. Answere THe booke in lattin is called EuaÌ„gelium Regnâ— gospell of the kingdome but this man is the translator thereof and hath qualified it calling it a ioyfull message of the kingdome the title is arrogant and presumptuous the doctrine therein worse as will appere in print ere it be long the pope hath found among manâ— enemies one freÌ„d although his doctrine is spokeÌ„ against euery where yet this maÌ„ would gladly képe and retayne his bare name belonging to a gouernour in office we coÌ„deme not the name his doctrine not agrâ—â—ing with the word is by the same word condemned so is yours For significations of names â–ª wâ—e will not contend a part of your deuinity lyeth therein neither do wee despise any name but is euell doctrine be shadowed or vnder any name cloked then wee inuey agaynst the doctrine vsing the name as wheÌ„ inuectiues are made agaynst the Pope or HN. it is not ment of the persons but of the doctrine And surely the Pope did neuer exercise so great a Popedome in the West Church as your HN. a new Pope doth among you of his Familye and as the papistes which tooth and nayle seeke to maintayne euery absurd and senceles part of the popes doctrine with all their power witte and skill EueÌ„ so do ye of his Family maintayne your Nâ— and whatsoeuer vnsauery doctrine he teacheth it maâ— not be discredited nor he cannot therein erre or misse the right in such reputation haue you placed mortall man. You say we all haue sinned haue need of y grace or mercy of the Lord y all haue sinned you truely confes but that all doe dayely sinne you cannot beleue especially you the â—â—ders of the holy vnderstandinâ— but in humilitye of spirite you and wee ought to coÌ„fesse not onely that we haue sinned but dayely and hourely do sinne and haue neede not onely of his grace but his mercy also although you speake of grace or mercy but wee craue his grace and mercy his grace to guide vs and his mercy to deliuer vs. Vitell. MOreouâ—r you are greatly offended because hee sayeth that none shold take iâ— haÌ„d to teach or preach but the illuminate elders whiâ—h arâ— Godded with God or incoâ—poâ—atâ—d to God and with whom also God in one being and power of his spirite is hominisied or become man And those you call proud speaches and because â—N vseth them ye despise him althoughe they be no strange words or speches in thâ— dutâ—h language â–ª therfore in so doing you despiâ—e the
some thinges yet so as hitherto vntouched of you except we should take your bare word agaynst many witnesses Vitell. FVrther you write of two men which weâ—e before a worshipfull Iustice Anno 1561. which you affirm to be of the Fam. of loue what they were that is that but of HN. his doctrine at that time they knew not also you affirme you knowe what but seeing you will â—eedes slaunder vs we will in the patience of Christ beare thâ—t and hâ—pe â—pon the goodnes and mercifulnesse of the Lord desiring him to geue you a better minde Aunswere TOuching two meÌ„ examyned before a worshipfull Iustice I haue collected that they were of the Family of loue you answere the doctrine of HN. at that time they knew not but this is certain one of them is liuing knoweth you but to well and is a welwiller to your Family and scoller of Allin but what they were you aunswere that is that Such suttle aunsweres are fittest for men of your profession you know what they were it seemeth and in deed they were of your hatching although for further increase of knowledge â–ª Allin their neare neighbor did more instructe them and lead them forward into your error Plain dealing would haue put men out of doute seeing you know what they were But since they haue bewrayed your doings â–ª in secret you regard them not For some of your Familye haue aunswered that by compulcion and threates they made their confession others say playne they were not of our Family you are ashamed of them now that they haue disclosed your secret conference You say I affirme I know what I thinke you meane touching your owne person wherein I haue vttered you to be y onely man y hath brought this wicked doctrine of HN. which lay hidden in the Dutch tongue among our simple English people to their euerlasting destruction except the Lord in mercy open their eyes that they may see into the wicked monstrous drift of your Author HN. and repent theÌ„ and so turn vnto the Lord Iesus from whome they haue departed following a stranger an enemy to Christ and his gospell set vp by Sathan who enuieth the prosperitye thereof The Lord geue you hartes to vnderstand and also geue euery one of you a better minde Vitell. COncerning Christopher Vâ—tell of his aâ—t or his small skill in learning he knoweth it also neither doth he make any boast of any thing that he â—aÌ„ for he knoweth if he haue any goâ—d whether it be godly or maâ—ly that â—t commeth fâ—om aboue for all goâ—d coÌ„meth from the Father of light with â—home there is no variablnes â—eiâ—her is he chaunged into daâ—kenes but all what is neither gâ—dly â—oâ— manâ—y that commeth out oâ—â—he â—lâ—sh of 〈◊〉 or â—lâ—shfly wisedon◠〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 gâ—od thinking his 〈…〉 â—hiâ—h bringeth 〈…〉 holyâ—â—s a counterfaâ—te riâ—hteouâ—â—es as also many manner of religions or chosen God seruices sectes or errors c. Aunswere TOuching this Christopher Clitel in Latten Vitâ—lus or Vitulus I haue sayd he is a ioyner by occupation a wauering minde and vnconstaÌ„t delighting in singularitys alwayes held hereticall opinions almost this 36. yeares wise men haue noted 3. euills being once rooted in man are seldome or neuer voyd of some spice of y same disease that is Lunasy Ieolously and heresye and it so falleth out by this mans example who in king Henryes raigne was vnconstant in king Cowardes raigne a dissembler and in Queenes Maryes raigne a playne Arryan and now in this our Princes raigne a chiefe teacher of the Familye of Loue now he hosteth of nothing surely there is no cause but rather to sorrow that many poore people by you are deceiued and abused and their simplicitye caryed away by your suttle speaches You say what so is godly or manly that is from aboue the phrase is somewhat difficult I think you mean spirituall and earthly But where you adde what is neither godly nor manly y coÌ„meth of the flesh of sinne c. Here is a distinction more scholasticall then meane wittes can attaine to if by godly and manly you place manly as contrary to godly then is manly taken in the euill part and so not from aboue excepte you will haue euell thinges from aboue which cannot be The thirde distinction is ambiguous for of our corrupt nature wee bring forth fleshly wisdome imaginations c. And herevnto are we by nature subiect if the Lord by his grace doe not guide vs and lead vs and deliuer vs yea and so deliuered if he still doe not protect and gouerne vs we shall be ready to fall agayne and agayne therefore we dayly craue at his handes saying deliuer vs Lord from such euels as by our owne corrupt nature we are subiect vnto Here are also 2. phrases I thought not good to let pas vntouched the one the mans good thinking and this is taken in the Family in the euill parte If his thought be good it is from aboue why despise ye it The other is chosen God seruices If it be a seruice of God then you doe not well to place this phrase with sects and errors But these men haue a delite to publishe strange Religion and to set it forth with strange phrases also For so they may speake like their Author they care not how vnlike the holy scripture they write Vitell. ANd all these come hereout because the man will iudge the â—orkes of the Lord with his naturall wisdome or lernedenes And heâ—out namely out of the wisedome of the flesh sprang all Christopher Vitelles errors but not out of any other maÌ„s councell or bookes Answere ALl errors sectes and couÌ„terfaite righteousnes as this man saith come of this that man will iudge the worâ—es of the Lord with his naturall wisdome lewdnes Touching man simply which S. Paul calleth Ammalis homo the â—leshly minded man knoweth not the things that are of God yet it is also affirmed that no man can say Abba Father without the spirite of god This man would perswade that there is now some secret teaching froÌ„ God by reuelation which is proper to this Family and therein they haue a speciall gifte they litle regard the ordinary way and meane to attayne knowledge and the true sence of the holy scripture It is not to be denyed that almighty God hath taught his children by his holy spirite in reuelations extraordenary but that now the sonne of God is come into the world eâ—en the wisdom of the Father with an vncouered face shall we now in this light looke to be taught by reuelations or inspiratioÌ„s he hath by his wisdome established an ordinarye way of teachinge in his church wherunto we must stand obâ—dyent except we will deny his ordynance Faith commeth by hearing of the word of God If we haue faith we shal not want other excellent vertues she is neuer alone but loue charitiâ— humilitie patience c. waite vpoÌ„ her as handmaydes Hath not the Deuill deluded many
vpon your perfection integrity he commeth to such a as terrible Iudge to your confusion where on the contrary we reioyce in his mercy still acknowledging our sinnes our wantes crying calling vpon him all the dayes of our lyâ—es with the Prophet Dauid and saying if thou O Lord looke straightly vpon our sinnes Lord Lord who shall abide it c. Correct vs O Lord but yet in thy mercy not in thy fury least we should be consumed c. thus we still call vpoÌ„ the Lord for our deliuery acknowledge our continuall transgressions which are euer before vs as prickes to prouoke vs forward to doe therein our duety that is to aske mercy of the Lord our God who willeth vs to call vpon him in the day of our trouble Vitell. FVrthermore coÌ„cerning Christophers being at Paules Crosse and the cause why he came there that can my Lord Byshop doctor Grindall declare best For he knoweth he found me in no error and so he there sayd neither had he any law to compell me to come theâ—her but he desired me to come coÌ„fesse that I held no such opinioÌ„ or error wherby the false brute might be stayed which went of me so I accomplished his request therein albeit I coÌ„fessed that I had in some poyntes bin deceiued by certayne straungers c. now I wish that you would inquire of my Lord doctor Grindall for I thinke he will testify the matter euen as it was Answere COncerning Christopher Vitells being and recanting at Paules Crosse there are many yet liuing that were preseÌ„t doe verefy what I haue sayd touching my L. of Cant. whom you appeale vnto if y case be so as you haue affirmed then is he worthy great blame to desire any maÌ„ to recaÌ„t which is in no error â— come to such a famous place as Paules Crosse is Before in the 35. section you confesse that out of the wisedome of the flesh sprang all Christoffer â—itells errors and now you affirme that you were in no error agayne in this tractation you confesse that in some poyntes you had bin deceaued by certayne straungers and in an other place you aâ—ouch that by no other mens counsell or bookes you were deceiued such a gift you haue to say â–ª and vnsay to affirme and to deny but the trueth is that you were prisoner in the counter in woodstret by commaundement of the Byshop that then was and there is your name regestred and your comming was not voluntary as you vntruely affirme but coacted by the law Magesâ—rates vse not to desire men to come to publick place to confesse their heresies but the law it selfe doth vrge it and you according to the law for your releasement out of prison did recant at the Crosse and named your error to be Arrianisme whether you did it from the hart that the Lord God knoweth Now consider this man for his credit sake among his deceaued Familye would perswade that such a péece of iniustice was shewed vnto him as he sayth but he is proued a lyer not onely in this but in many other matters verefying the olde prouerb mendâ—cem memorem esse oporteâ— a lyer had neede to haue a good memory And where as you so confideÌ„tly affirme that you were in no error wheÌ„ you were at the Crosse the contrarye whereof is manifest I will put you in minde of the disputations and confereÌ„ce that diuers meÌ„ had with you in Queene Maryes dayes M. Ro. Crowley a reuerent and godly preacher yet liuing who affirmeth that seueral times he disputed with you concerning the blasphemy of Arryus and you coÌ„tinually denyed Christ Iesus to be God equall with his Father and immoueably you remained all her raigne of that minde and this M. Crowley is redy to auouch agaynst you whensoeuer you or any for you will require to be certafied Also one Ione Agar an olde mayde which wayted on those in office for the Cittye as Mayors and shrieffes did declare to M. Fulkes the Elder and others that you Christopher Vitell whome she named to be hyr cosin had taught her playnely that Christ was not God but onely a good man and a Prophet and that there were men that shee did know liuing that were as good and as holy men as he was and further that Maister Latimer Maister Ridley and others which gaue their lyfâ— for Christes cause were starke fooles and did not well in suffering death such wickednes haue you bin the Aucthor of yet now to hould your credit with your Familye you would haue the world beleue that you were in no error but you are worthy the reward of a lyer which is that when he speaketh trueth he is not beleued This man is chosen and found to be the aptest person to be an illuminat Elder in HN. his Family of greatest credit among those deceiued soules a fitter instrument to beare record of HN. and his doctrine then to declare the ioyfull message of Christ our redeemer whome he hath blasphemed denying his diuinitye worthely are they deluded that follow such a deceiuer That man that once hath made shipwrack of fayth good conscience and is possessed with error it is hard to reclayme him but that some spice of that maladye will lurke in him or a worse as is proued true by you you confessed then you were deceaued by certayne straungers and haue you not as great cause to suspect your selfe deceaued now by HN. a straunger in nation and estraunged from God and Christ in his doctrine published contrary to his will reuealed in the holy scriptures if you would consider with indifferency you were neuer so notably deceiued then as you are now for looke into all the workes of HN. what doe they tend to but that he is a prophet raysed vp by God and an elected minister a priest in office by whome God wil receiue all men in mercy With such lyke testimonyes doth he vtter of himselfe and his Familye doe beleue the same I would his credit were not so great with you but that you could coÌ„pare his saâ—ings with the scriptures and haue an eye vnto â—s collections of the same and how he followeth the grossest â—raslation of the Bible delighting in that most specially and his allegations applyed so farre from the sence of the holy ghost that a man meanely exercised â—n the scripture may playnely see his corruption Many brutes haue bin of you touching your erronious spirite and in deede they that haue truely noted your disposition doe affirme that you could neuer lyke of any publick doctrine which was taught but had alwayes a desire of singularitye such a troubler of Christ his Church haue you bin but blessed be the name of y Lord who hath made manifest your herâ—sies although you will not scarcely acknowledge theÌ„ so that the simplest among many thowsandes is sufficieÌ„tly assâ—sted by the Lord to bewray and display your manifest impietye and the Lord hath in store of his Church that
good but forasmuch as your doctrine is false wicked and fantasticall therfore your prayer is corrupte and abhominable and to be despised and all princes that fear the Lord wil become vtter enemies to you â— your doctrine and seek diligently to amend if it be possible your corruptions and I doute not but the Lord hath in his Church men of zealous mindes who will not see the glory of our immortall God nor the death passion and resurrection of Christ Iesus our Lord so defaced darâ—kned and shadowed And that his Church may be purged of such corrupt weedes which spring vp séeking to destroy that good corn which is sowed already O Lord God we humble sinners abiding in the vnity of thy holy Church doe most humbly hartely pray thee eueÌ„ for thy sonne our Sauiour Christ Iesus sake that thou wilt in mâ—rcy looke vpon thy poore afflicted Church and the members thereof that by no malice of Sathan no pretence of collored speach nor no vanity of minde any of thy children be caryed away as straying from thy fould but that O Lord they may agayne be ioyned to thy flock so that so many as pertayne vnto that good shepherd of our soules Christ Iesus may laud and prayse thy name with one voyce and O Lord we most humbly beseech thee to clense thy Church from the filthy dregges of doctrine which wicked meÌ„ through the malice of Sathan haue deuised to disquiet thy peaceable Sion conuert thou them O Lord wée beseech thee mollify their stony hartes which haue set vp a Prophet whome thou O Lord hast not sent let them O Lord behold how farre they haue declyned from thy wayes and followed the doctrine of deceaueable men let them see from whome they haue departed to whom they cleaâ—e fast And although we O Lord by our offences and the manyfold transgressions wherwith we prouoke thy merciâ—ull goodnes who doe know thy will and yet are so slow performerâ— therof wherby thou O Lord doest punish our offences so that wicked men now set vp theÌ„selues against vs accusing vs and that worthely of the breaking of thy holy lawes So O Lord although we haue thus sore prouoked thy goodnes by our offences yet we beseech thee consider thy sonne our Lord and Sauiour whose obedience righteousnes to thy will â–ª thou hast by promise made it ours so that beloÌ„ging to thy sonne we are shadowed vnder his righteousnes and couered vnder his winges in safety from eternall destrucâ—ion But such is thy goodnesse O mercifull God to try thy children here in earth how stedfast we will bid battaâ—le against Sathan and his impes and how constant we will abide therein so that no blast nor inuation of enemies shall I hope shake that foundation of faith that thou hast plâ—nted in vs which we most humbly desire thy maiesty to increase and that we may perseuâ—re and continue in the vnity of thy holy church in this life and after we may inioy tâ—e fruition of thy godly maiâ—stye and sing prâ—yses vnto thee world without end Vitell. O Lord let vs finde grace before thine eyes and heare ouâ— humble sâ—pplication which we make vnto thee in the sorrowfulnesse of our haâ—ts For a broaken hart and a sorrowfull spâ—â—ite wilt thou O Lord not despise â–ª for euen there wilt thou enter 〈◊〉 and therby mâ—â—e thine habitation and sanctifie thy name from genâ—ration tâ—â—enâ—â—â—tio◠〈◊〉 in euerlastingnes It is very true Answere O Lord we bâ—seech thée turne the harts of thesâ— deceaueâ— people and graunt them thy holâ— sâ—irit y they may discern thy truth tauâ—ht in thy holy word and not geue eaâ—e vnto anâ—e which teach coÌ„trary therto ouerthrow their deuices brig to light their deâ—â—â—ts for thy holy names sake That we thy childreÌ„ may reiâ—yce ouer their tâ— uersioÌ„ so together with one voice magnifie praise thy glorious name â–ª and that those straying shâ—â—p may be brought in to thy fold again 〈◊〉 it be thy blesâ—â—d wil Reueale vnto them O Lord we beseech thee the office and death of thy sonne our Lord and Sauiour that they tasting the swetenes thereof may â—orsake the confidence they haue in their perfection and that we may all acknowledge onely Christ Iesus to be perâ—ite and we our selues dust and dung and whatsoeuer is vile let nâ—t Sathan lead theÌ„ captiue but O Lord we besech thee pull them out of the Lyons mouth and conioyne them to thy holy Church out of which they haue wandred ouer long in doctrines of men Let thy strength appeare O Lord and let our weakenes be made open to them let the effect of thy Gospell breake into their hartes of stone that they may tast féele how swâ—ete the Lord is in mercy towardes sinners and how seuere to such as iustify theÌ„selues And if it stand with thy good will pleasure thus to coÌ„uert theÌ„ at the sute of our earnest prayers we shall for the same geue thankes in thy Church euermore But if thy Churche shall haue thereby their tryall made knoweÌ„ to the world herein O Lord kéepe thy children and such as loue thâ— Lord Iesus embrace the ioyfull tidinges of the Gospell in thine owne bosome that they be not led away with any pretences of pietye into error or corruption but defend them as thou hast promised that what pittye a Father hath ouer his childreÌ„ lyke pittye thou O Lord wilt shew vnto theÌ„ which we besech thee graunt vs for thy sonne Iesus Christ his sake to whome with the holy ghost be honor land prayse power and dominion from euerlasting to euerlasting So be it The state and condition of a regenerate man by the rule of holy scripture compared with the state of a regenerat man by the doctrine of HN. in the Familye of Loue. I Being in my creation at the first in most excellent state and happines hauing by diuine prouideÌ„ce in my selfe frée choyse will to choose the good and refuse the euill described by fire and water I willingly and of mine owne accord gaue place to euill and so worthely by iustice brought vpon my selfe the heauy hand of my God and the dexteritye of his law â–ª with maledirioÌ„ cursse where in â— had remained euerlastingly had not the Lord my God in mercy and of his speciall grace beholding my woeâ—â—â—l â—ase without any desert of mine prouided and promised a deliuerer a Sauiour eueÌ„ the Lord Iesus which in â—ulnes of time came whome the Patriarches hoped after whome the Prophets foretold of which died for my sinnes and rose agayne for my iustification who put out the hand writing of the law pronounced agaynst me â—astened it to his crosse who suffered for me y I might raigne with him who left me an example that I should â—ollow his steppes And which is more without coÌ„dition promisâ—d me eternall lyfe which by the onely sacrifice of his death he hath obtayned and by his paynefull
God â—nd one man and they were one and had in al one order being and nature For God was all that the man wâ—s and the man was â—l that God was c. Thus man became God at the beginning For God looking vpon man looked vpon him self as the same cleerâ—nes of his liuing Godhead Also the man looked vpon his God his gentle cleane and vnspotted manhode in all fulcomenes in all honesty and fairenes in all fashion and being according to the same Godhead And this was also all one God and the man c. God gaue the man in the beginning none other Lawes Institutions Iudgements nor Commaundements but to liue with ioy naked or vncouered before him and to looke vpon all the works of God for good and not for euil should neuer tast or féele euill death or condemnation But as the man turned â—way the eyes of his flesh from his â—od saw vpon him selfe that he was not the hyest Godhed it selfe but that he was also man â–ª then was he vndersought or tempted to the knowledge of good and euill to be therethrough as God. Then came a blindnes ouer man and estranged him or seperated him from his God wherethrough he could not beare the word or voice of his god nor shine before him with his naked manhoode Man did acknowledge none other God saluation nor kingdome of heauen but through the knowledge that the man had takeÌ„ on to him self which was nothing els but the deuill hell and condemnation Through this knowledge of AdaÌ„ the generations of men haue inherited a consumeable inheritaunce wherethrough men that were made or shaped to be one with God and ought to be one with another are fallen into many contrarieties and hinderlike knowledges Thus man being fallen away altogether destroyed in his vnderstanding and from the liuing Godhed and from the kingdome of heauen straunged might be brought agayne to his vpright estate in his God through his loue according as he had promysed to the saluation of the manly generation he made one new man after the same likenes or similitude of his Godhead and named him Iesus Christus which doeth signifie vnto vs the safemaking oyle of God sauing being the same is gone out from God and hath shewed himselfe vpon earth He is gone into the knowledge of men and found all their man knowledges and their scripture learnednes in all in all that they wist false and lying This false knowledge siting she vnderstandeth not Gods truth aright through her wisdome and Scripture learnednes hath Christ rebuked and taken captiue the knowledge of men and made it through Christ foolishnes to make them frée and deliuer them in this to coÌ„ming day of his Lordlines from all their foolish knowledge Euen so hath Christ done by y sin and the righteousnes of men He is also gone into the death of men and hath borne therby one death namely his death of the crosse and so through his death hath taken captiue the death of men because that he in y last day in his comming againe may set vp the man from death through the death of the cros and make him aliue that he may bring him in his vpright estate to his God. But now hath Iesus Christ the might and Lordship ouer all destroyed things which burthened the men and the destructions which were takeÌ„ captiue and through the death of the cros had brought all vnder him Euen so is he with his might and Lordship risâ—n agayne from death ouer the destruction and through the declaration of his resurrection hath he shewed to his frends and disciples which belâ—eued in him and hath made it knowen vnto them the might home to get y ouer winning against al y destroyed things wherewith the maÌ„ was incaptiued God hath ordayned a day which is the day of loue in which he will iudge the earth with righteousnes through one man he hath concluded it which holdeth beliefe before euery man seing that God hath awaked him againe from the death Hetherto the doctrine of HN. taken out of a booke called Mans falling away his Lordlines and comming agayne THe heauenly being of God and God his vpright righteousnes is become mortall in vs but yet not for euer but for a certaine season till the man shew forth vpright fruites of repentaunce The man in his youngnes is subiect to sinne vntill he haue attayned the manly oldnes in the Loue and the vpright fréedome then is the new couenaunt of perfection ereâ—â—ed and all is fulfilled which is written by Moyses or that God requireth through his Prophets or what is euangelised of Christ. And if there chaunce any temptations by our Paramours which we in tymes past haue loued to come and assault vs c. but if they lay hould on vs with force and violence and that then although we cry there commeth not any power or helpe vnto vs for to withstand them in their force and violence and that they euen so rauish vs agaynst our will so are we guiltles of the transgressinges for wee haue cryed for to be released from the tyranny of the euill and there is no helpe come vnto vs of which guiltles transgressinges the law witnesseth where it sayth a woman that is violently taken in the field c. The regenerat man from his new byrth is exercised in all well doing and for that cause also he cannot bring fourth any thing els but all good and Loue. The true or vpright fredome is this that the man through the ministration of the gracious word c. his hart spirite and minde is wholy released purged and purified from all wicked nature which hath raigned ouer him that there dwell liue nor rule any other thing in him namely in all his spirite thoughtes minde soule but alone the true Godhed with his louely being of the vpright Loue and so to be wholy replenished with all y vertues of God that there flowe nothing els in him namely in all his spirite and minde but the spirituall heauenly â–ª and liuing waters Man regenerat doth veare costly treasure in earthen veâ—sels is of one minde with the thrée godly witnesses that heare witnes in heauen Of which thâ—ee godly witnesses the onâ— is the Loue which is God the Father himselfe The second witnes is the trueth which is the word of God the Father Iesus Christ himselfe And the third witâ—es is the holy spirite of Loue or of God of the truâ—th of Iesus Christ which is the euerlasting lyfe and the inheritaunce of all spirituall and heauenly goodes Consider where God with his Christ and spirite hath his dwelling iâ— any one and bringeth forth 〈◊〉 secret treasures of the heauenly goodes thereout euen there is then truely his wisedome to be found and also the couÌ„cell of God according to the trueth