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A01004 God and the king. Or a dialogue wherein is treated of allegiance due to our most gracious Lord, King Iames, within his dominions Which (by remouing all controuersies, and causes of dissentions and suspitions) bindeth subiects, by an inuiolable band of loue and duty, to their soueraigne. Translated out of Latin into English.; Deus et rex. English Floyd, John, 1572-1649.; More, Thomas, 1565-1625, attributed name. 1620 (1620) STC 11110.7; ESTC S107002 53,200 142

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GOD AND THE KING OR A DIALOGVE Wherein is treated of Allegiance due to our most Gracious Lord King Iames within his Dominions WHICH by remouing all Controuersies and causes of Dissentions and Suspitions bindeth Subiects by an inuiolable band of Loue Duty to their Soueraigne Translated out of Latin into English Printed at Cullen M. DC XX. To the Reader THE former Dialogue set forth vnder thi● same Title GOD AND THE KING the persons of the same being Theodidactus and Philalethes the first signifiyng One taught of God the other A louer of Truth did ●eed explication in diuers poynts aswell in regard of the verity of the discourse as also for the more safty both of Kings and their Kingdomes VVherfore it was thought good that in this present Dialogue two other persons should treate of the same subiect Aristobulus that is A good Coūsellour and Philanax A Louer of Kinges of which the one wisheth all good vnto Kinges the other suggesteth what he iudgeth best for their State And so in few wordes gentle Reader thou hast the scope of both Dialogues Farewell GOD AND THE KING Philanax YOv are well met Aristobulus your countenance and gesture import that your thoughtes are much busied What may b● the occasion of these Meditations Aristobulus I haue lately perused a short Treatise intituled GOD AND THE KING the Author whereof vndertaketh to shew the groundes foundations of royall Soueraignty and of the Oath of Allegiance Philanax Why should the perusall of the Treatise cause such admiration in you I am sure you b●ing a Professour of the Ghospell are no● of their number that seeke to depresse Kingly power or thinke much that Kings should oblige their subiects to them by Oathes Aristobulus My professio● and my deedes declare sufficiently my dutifull affection to Kings my high esteeme of their authority my detestatiō of all treason hollownes and insincerity towardes them I approue the doctrine of this Dialogu● that vnder the pious and reuerend appellations of Father and Mother are comprized not only our naturall Parents but likewise all higher Powers and especially such as haue soueraigne authority as Kings Princes who more expresly then any Gouernours represent the person maiesty of one God ruling the whole world and are his substitutes lieutenants euery one within his owne Kingdome The subiect may not touch his soueraigne with any hurtfull touch nor stretch out his hand against his sacred person nor a●fright nor disgrace him by cutting the lapp ●f his garment not hurt him in word no not ●o much as in thought He must discharge his ●anifold duties towards him by payinge ●ribute for his regall supporte by fighting his ●attailes with Ioab aduenturing his life with Dauid to vanquish his enimies Reuealing with ●eligions Mardochaeus treasonable designe●ents against him by powring out pra●ers ●nd supplications for his wellfare by esteeming and ●onouring him from the harte and out of conscience as the annointed o● the Lord Gods holy Ordinance and Minister and as a God vpon earth These doctrines I allow and these duties towardes Princes whosoeuer infringeth either by tumults or seditions against his state or by treacherous and violent attempts against his person deserue as violators of Gods will contemners of natures ●aw and enemies to the good of their Countrey to be punished persecuted ●o death by sword and fire Philanax Seeing then that the Treatise you ●peake of doth so fully declare the duty of Allegiance to the Kinge what ●roubleth you therein that your coun●enance discouereth disl●ke Aristobulus To commend allegiance in generall termes simply and playnly conceaued is most alowable necessary in these times But bold or rather desperate Treatises such as this is that disclose the mysteries of Regall Prerogatiue which as his Maiesty well noteth ought not to be searched into that ground the authority of Kings so necessary for mankinde vpon doubtfull curios●ties that moue questions about depositions both disgracefull to Maiesty and odious to the subiects such Treatises I say doe more harme then good and without doubt the first Authors of such conceipts be secret enemies to Kingly gouernment and by this stratageme would craftily vndermine what hitherto in vayne they haue assaulted openly Philanax I am persuaded the Treatise you mention was not written by any Papist nor that any of that generation ●ad their hand in it Who then may we think be these vnderminers of Monarchy you speak of Aristobulus I would to God it were hard to name them or that euery one could not point with his finger at that professiō which from her cradle hath euer been a mortall enemie 〈◊〉 Kings That the first planters of the Ghospell in this age rooted the same in rebellion and in hatred to Monarchy neitheir wee nor any of their best frends can deny Our late Arch-bishop excuseth them that their zeale was very greate the light of the Ghospell sayth he then first appearing vnto them so dazeled their eyes that they did not well consider what they did Without doubt so it was and so it will euer be where the pure light as they call it of this Ghospell shineth and zeale therof feruently burneth there can be no assured allegiance to the Prince This I confesse is no small blemis● to the Religion which I would conceale did not loue to his Maiesty force me to speak And the reason why it must needes be so is euident A true spirit zealous in Religiō can neuer be quiet in the busines of s●luation and in questions and Controuersies of Faith ●●ll he find some ground infallible whereon he may rest The Papist holdes that the Popes sentence specially in generall Councels is the infallible decider of Controuersies vpon which he repo●●th his conscience And by submitting euery one his priuate iudgment to the sentence of a supreme Iudge they gayne peace and v●ity among themselues and their Iudge still when he defines being as they pretend assisted by Gods spirit they are secured from errour An easy and sweet way to end Controuersies had it pleased God to haue appointed it wherein verity and charity m●et Iustice doctrine I say iust with Gods word kisseth with peace and Christians might haue enioyed what S. Paul so highly commendeth charity of ●●uth But our Authors constantly affirme that since the Apostles God gr●unted no such priuiledge to any Pastor nor wold bestow so great blessing on his Church as to haue perpetually such a visible gouernour to decide her doubtes nimium vobis Romana propago visa potens superi propria haec si dona fuissent W●erfore by the consēt of the Churches which we call reformed the spirit of God deciding Controuersies which Papists tied to the Pope and his Councells was giuen to euery man that should attend to the spirit speaking in Scriptures A course which pleased much the common people in the beginning persuading them that they had been blinded and wronged by the Pope taking from them
together with the vse of Scriptures their authority to iudge definitions of the Church by Scriptures The deuisers of this way seemed to haue great zeale of the truth but were not carefull to prouide for peace And so in practise this deuise begot a multitude of Sects and Religions one against another that many weary of all began to thinke it were better men should be vnited in error then thus mortally diuided in Truth A meane was deuised to decide Controuersies by nationall Synods that are confessed may erre but the Ciuil magistrate as our chief Deuines teach as being President in them is to compell his subiects by the sword to imbrace those doctrines that be determined be they true or fals For this course say they was appointed by God who thought it better in the eye of his vnderstanding that sometimes an erroneous definitiue sentence should preuaile then that strifes should haue respite to grow and not come speedily to some end Heere desire of peace concord may seeme to haue made these men lesse zealous of the Truth then behooued them So it opened a gappe specially in England to prophanes irreligiosity which is to be iust of the Kings Religion whatsoeuer it be or rather of none A salue for this sore hath been inuēted that subiects ought to obey their Princes Lawes and definitions when they haue only probabilities against them not when they haue necessary and demonstratiue reasons which discharge the conscience and giue liberty to resist This caueat and salue for Truth sets the wound of dissention againe a bleeding Sects in the world are now allmost infinite for number amongest which not one is found that pretendeth not cleere and euident demonstration and proofe from holy Scripture for their contrary and repugnant opinions And who shall iudg in this contradiction and confusion whose reasons are necessary and demonstratiue The arguments which we think demonstrati●e moue Papists nothing at all and arguments which we iudg of no force Puritans as Archbishop Bancroft writeth of them take to be so vrgent that if euery hayre of their head were a seuerall life they wold giue them all in the cause This controuersy therfore whose reasons are demonstratiue and whose are not is the greatest of all others nor is there any way to decide it in our churches besides the sword of the temporall Prince Princes therfore for conseruation of peace must keep the spirit in awe practising power infallible in deedes which they dare not challenge in wordes This is the cause of the secret emnity betweene power of Kings and feruour of our Ghospell The Prince can neuer be assured of our Gospellers by the Principles of their Religion that their zeale to the Truth will not trouble the peace of his Kingdome nor Ghospellers of the Prince that his loue of temporall peace will not compell them to trust to his deceaueable definitions Whence it is manifest that so longe as the one shal be zealons and feruent to follow and preach what by light of the spirit they conceaue to be in Sc●ipture occasions cannot be wanting to the other that will force him to vse his power to curbe their liberty Which power so long as he shal vsurpe so long as he will be Prince and Protestant he must needes vsurpe let him neuer expect that Ghospellers can loue his gouernment though they may flatter in outward shew Those men had no doubt the pure spirit of our Ghospell who professed that except they might haue the re●ormation they desired they would neuer be subiect to mortall man Looke vpon the first erecting of our Religion in Germany France Flanders Swe●eland Denmarke and Scotland you shall find that the Ghospell went not so fast vp but Kings and their authority went as fast downe What Bullenger writeth of Anabaptist● was the true course of our Reformers They began with Bishops pulling them from their seates they ended with Kings casting them frō their Thrones Books haue been written of this argument by no Papists that shew their practises and doctrines to be in the highest degree iniurious to Kings Luthers inuectiues I omitt not to pollute your eares Caluin is more modest yet so bould with Kinges as to write that when they resist the Ghospell they are not to be obeyed but rather we ought to s●it it in their faces This is nothing to that which Hottomā Beza Goodman Knox Vrsinus Buchanan to forbeare the naming of others innumerable haue writtē wherby they make Maiesty subiect to the peoples pleasure no more sure of his state then wethercocks that must turn● with the wind Vt sumat vt ponat secures Arbitrio popularis aurae What thinke you of these their propositions following Yf Princes be tyrants against God and his Truth their subiects are freed from their oath o● Allegiance The people are greate● then the King of greater authority The people haue the same power o●uer the King that the King hath oue● any one person The people haue right to bestow the Crown at their pleasure As the patient may choose the phisitiā he like●● best reiect him at his pleasure so the people in whose free choice at the beginning it was to be vnder kings or no may when they be weary of their bad gouernment cast him from his Office into prison into irons put him to death and set whome they please to gouerne in his place Kings haue their authority from the people and the people may take it away againe as men may reuoke their letters of Attorney Yf kings without feare transgresse Gods Lawes they ought no more to be taken as magistrats but be examined accused condemned and punished as priuate transgressors When magistrats do not their duties God giueth the sword into the people● hand from ●e which no person King Queene 〈◊〉 Emperor is exempt being Idolater 〈◊〉 must dye the death These and the ●●ke positions haue been inuented by ●●e zealous professors of our Religion ●he same or worse were renewed and ●ttered by the feruerous reformers that ●roue for discipline in Queene Eliz. ●ayes that as a worthy prelat writes All the Popi●● traitors that hither●o haue written and all the Gene●ian Scottish Reformers come not neere ●hem for malicious and spiteful taunts ●or rayling and bitter tearmes for dis●aineful and contemptuous speaches ●gainst Prince Bishops Counsailors ●ll other that stand in their way Their ●ecret practises to set vp by som meane ●r other sweete or violent the said ●isciplin haue neuer been interrupted ●r remitted as he doth particular●y relate beginning at the yeere 1560. ●o the yeere 1591. when was practised ●hat most blasphemous and barbarous ●reason of their counterfait Iesus-Christ Hacket and his two Prophets ●f mercy and vengeance who would ●aue planted the discipline by depriuing the Queene and murthering th● nobles that stood against it of
whic● the cheefest Pretendents in that refor●mation had notice at loast in confu●● and in generall as the said Archbisho● affirmeth and did secre●ly conniu● thereunto fauouring no doubt in ha●● a popular state where Church-doctrine and discipline is receaued reiected by voices In which gouernment these fiery Ghospellers as hi● Maiesty calleth them beeing com●monly men of sharpe wits and ready tongues high minded and of working spirits might beare great sway euery one rule as King and Pope in his parish Since that time these men haue been in shew both for doctrine practise more moderate specially ●ince his Maiesties happy raigne and that some of them haue been aduaunced to dignities Now they are become the forwardest in shew ●or defence of Allegiance they speake most against the Papists that hold Kings to be deposable in some cases They extoll Royall authority aboue the skyes I can i● Charity beleeue that some of them meane as they professe yet wisedome giues leaue to feare rec●nciled emenies Poison no where lurketh more securely then in hony Their present doctrine carrieth outwardly a shew of friendship to Kings but ●o will ●ooke into the ground shall finde it dangerous to them and more pernicious then the former of Caluin Goodman Beza Knox Buchanan and others ●heir predecessors and Maisters The ●umme of this their doctrine is con●eyned in the Treatise intituled God ●he King The Authour whereof had ●o reason to tearme himselfe Theodi●act that is Taught of God seing he spea●eth diuers thinges that the spirit of God could not suggest vnto him He ●ndertaketh the proofe of foure pro●ositions The first is That Kings haue ●uthority immediately only from God the Church and people not being any thing in the ●uist thereof This is the fundamentall ●●one whereon is built the second ●hat Kings haue no superior on earth to cha●●ise and punish them The third is That ●either Tyranny nor Heresy nor Apostacy can release subiects of their Obediēce The fourth That Kings may neither be deposed nor resisted but by teares and prayers though they should be so tyrannous prophane as to endeauour to oppresse the whole Church and Commonwealth at once and vtterly to extinguish the light of Christian Religion Philanax These speaches may be disgustfull to Subiects and sound vncou●hly in their ●ares but doctrine that doth so magnify Kings I see not how it may be thought pernicious to them Aristobulus Kinges are not to regard so much how great and glorious as how grounded be the titles that are bestowed on them seeing incredible praises giuen to men do oftentimes abate the credit of their deserued commendation Some Ghospellers as a iudicious Protestant complaines attributing to the holy Scripture more then it cā haue the incredibility of that hath caused euen those things which in deede it hath most aboundantly to be the lesse reuerently esteemed The same we may ●are will happen to the authority of Kinges And the danger of such flat●ering speculations as this Dialogist ●each●th is so much the greater to the Soueraigne whilest they extoll him ●boue measure to the state of absolute Lord God vpō earth as it is hatefull ●o the subiect to see himself abased to ●eruile abhorred ●●ptiuity put to ● more miserable condition then the ●ondage of slaues For slaues to speak nothing of humane lawes that haue ●ppointed limits to their miseries ●aue some rightes and liberties by the ●aw of nature inuiolable which if ●hey be able they may defend by force ●gainst euen their owne Maisters that shall violently and vniustly inuade ●hem● Such liberty they haue to marry ●nd propagate humane kind to enioy ●ife so longe as they haue done no●hing worthy of death but principally ●o worship God their maker and su●reme Lord. But this new doctrine of Princely absolute Soueraignty set ●owne in the Treatise mentioned ●akes the Common-wealth so mise●able and the people such bondmen to their Prince that they may not defen●● their nationall freedomes how iust necessary soeuer nor the liberties an● rightes that nature hath bequea●●e● euen vpon slaues But that if th● Prince wanton in cruelty should kee● men by force frō marrying so to bring the Common-wealth to vtter de●olation in one age ●r if not hauing pati●ence to attend that lingring consump●tion of the state he should daily sen● mē by multitudes like heards of sheep or oxen to the slaughter or if out o● a desire his subiects may perish eternally he should seek vtterly to extinguish the doctrine of saluation within his Realmes In these cases I say o● the like of extreamest necessity and most hostile inuasion according to th● doctrine of this Dialogist they may not lift vp so much as their finger against his attempts nor ioyne with any power vpon earth that would releeue them Philanax I see plainly that this doctrine is very odious in it self and you set it forth to the vttermost Aristobulus I say no more then his owne wor●es import nor haue described tyrāny ●ore truly then he hath done in his Dialogue And I know so well there is ●o cause to feare the practise of this ●octrine by his gratious Maiesty that I would not haue said thus much but to ●hew how odiously ●nemies of Royalty may and will exagitate this Conclu●ion when such discourses shal be for ●he aduantage of popularity Now ●hey write and cause Treatises to be ●ublished by authority which when ●ime shall serue they may vse to make ●is Maiesty hatefull By the like stra●ageme the Puritans of Scotland ouer●hrew his Maiesti●s Mother When ●hey had barbarously slayne the Kinge ●er husband they importunely vrged ●e● alledging it was necessary for the maintenance of her state and life to marry with the Earle of Bothwell ●oncealing from her that he had been ●heef actor in the murther The mar●iage was no sooner concluded but ●hey diuulged the hatefullnes therof● thence seeking to persuade the world she had been consenting to her husbands death And so what with defa●matory libells abroad what wit● their turbulent declamations at hom● they made her odious they tooke from her the Crown● they tossed her frō mi●sery to misery till finally they brough● h●r to lay her head on the blocke to b● cut off by the comon Executioner ● hope his Maiesties happy raygne shal● neuer see commotion in this state ye● if any such tumult happen and human things are vncertain I do not feare to be found a false Prophet in saying tha● this doctrine wil be bitterly exclaime● against and this Treatise I speake of● produced to witnes what desperate allegiance Princes exact and vrged no● only against his Maiesty but as a caus● sufficient to banish Kings out of th● Land The late Lord of Canterbury complaynes that in his dayes cantonin● of Kingdomes was in many mens mouthes tha● men did talke what a notable thing it is to liu● in Venice● where euery gentleman liueth wit● as great liberty as the Duke