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A05090 A plaine refutation of M. G. Giffardes reprochful booke, intituled a short treatise against the Donatists of England Wherein is discouered the forgery of the whole ministrie, the confusion, false worship, and antichristian disorder of these parish assemblies, called the Church of England. Here also is prefixed a summe of the causes of our seperation ... by Henrie Barrovve. Here is furder annexed a briefe refutation of M. Giff. supposed consimilituda betwixt the Donatists and vs ... by I. Gren. Here are also inserted a fewe obseruations of M. Giff. his cauills about read prayer & deuised leitourgies. Barrow, Henry, 1550?-1593.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593. 1591 (1591) STC 1523; ESTC S104500 292,873 278

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therfore complained of all yt was but an error But wheras Gods word is imbraced and multitudes abhorr idolatrie and labour with sorowfull teares to be purged from their sinnes it is intollerable pride presumption of men to set themselues in Gods iudgment seate and to condempne all of wilfulnes and obsti●acie Let it be shewed that anie led by Gods Spirit haue dealt in this sort and especially in chardging them whom they condempne most falslie as shall appeare HERE you verie vehemently chardge vs with intollerable pride presumption intrusion into Gods iudgment seate to be voide of Gods Spirit to chardge and condempne you most falslie as you say shall appeare How iustly you chardge vs with these crimes and dischardge your self and these assemblies of these present transgressions vpon the scanne of your answere shall appeare In the meane time the holy Ghost sheweth vs what spirit you are led by at the writing therof and hath foretold how vvell you shall endure and reforme at the manifestation of your sinnes and at the powring out of the cuppe of the Lords indignation where he saith They shall drinke and be moued and be madd because of the sword that sha●l come vpon them And in another place And the fift Angel powred forth his viall vpon the Throne of the Beast and his kingdome waxed darke and they gnawed their tongues for sorowe and blasphemed the God of heauen for their paines and their sores but repented them not of their workes It suffised you not to cauill and spurne against the manifest truth of our former Articles but you must in this not only leaue out our words at your pleasure but abuse them that remaine after your owne lust Our Article speaketh of the assemblies as they generally stand in England You retort our words to Gods secret election which we acknowledg and daily see and praise Gods name for it Yet no multitudes but a litle poore remnant as the beries of a beaten Oliue tree the grapes after the grape-gathering one of a Citie two of a Tribe in respect And it is to be doubted those multitudes you speake of will shrink when they come to his ass●ye whose furnace is in Sion and fire in Hierusalem But if it should be so as you say the heauie wrath of God hāgeth ouer your heades that haue a people so redie and fit for the kingdome of CHRIST and suffer them to continue in this confusion false worship antichristian bondage euen the snare of the Deuil and not only not leade them out of it but not suffer thē that would to depart and thus slay them that should not dye Yea you smite the Phisitiā that seeketh to heale you and are enimies to them that shew you your trāsgressiōs iudging them voide of the spirit of God But if you had but considered that Prophets zeale as you remembred his error you should haue found him zealous ●eruent against Baalls Priests in Gods quarrell It were long to recite the number of Gods faithfull seruāts which are euerie where cōmended in the scriptures for their zeale diligēce herein Or againe the Lords iudgments not onlie vpon perticular men but whole Contries nations for the contempt neglect therof So then if it fall out that the lawe and word of God condempne you of these transgressions what are we that we should iustifie you in your iniquities nay rather proude hawtie and scornfull is his name that worketh in his arrogancie wrath c. To blazon your transgressions as they deserue requireth rather a quire then a shead of paper And to say the truth it is an yrksomnes vnto anie godly conscience either to heare or recite them Yet because ther is no cause so bad which shal not finde as bad a patrone we will only examine your answeres and brieflie shew their insufficiencie THE first fault is That we worship the Lord after a false maner because our worship is said to be made of the invention of man yea of the man of sinne erronious imposed vpon vs. I answere that our worship is the imbracing of the holy Bible by the doctrine therof we seeke to belieue in God to call vpon him and to doo all good workes Manie Ministers ther be in England which haue not approued the booke of common praier further then they are perswaded it is consonant to Gods word hor vsed anie thing therin which they iudge corrupt But you say all read prayer is idolatrie But you must bring better stuffe to proue yt then your spirituall fantasies so directly ouerthrowne by the holy scriptures howsoeuer they may be cauilled against with fond distinctions as the hereticks haue done in other matters THE first Transgression we chardge your assemblies with is That you worship God after a false maner your worship being made of the invention of man euen of the man of sinne erronious and imposed vppon you You answere your worship is the imbracing the holy Bible Thus begging the question you neither proue your worship by the Bible nor answere one of these 4 apparant reasons which we bring in our Articles whie yt is false contrarie to the Bible For the furder manifestation of your worship in perticular let that great Idoll the booke of your cōmon prayer which is so full of errors blasphemies and abhominations be examined by the word of God See if you can finde in the new Testament your Romish Fastes your Ember dayes Sainctes Eaues Lent or your Idoll Feastes your Alhallowes Candlemasse your seuerall Lady dayes Saincts dayes the dedicating of your Churches to Saincts your Comminations Rogations Purifications Tithe● Offrings Mortuaries your maner of visiting the sick housling them with the Sacrament your Absolution your blasphemous Diriges and funerall sermons ouer and for the dead your corrupt maner of administring the Sacraments your Font crossing in baptisme your Baptising by women Gossippings the blasphemous Collects you vse in this Sacrament your Bishoppings with all your hereticall Collects in that Booke which is a wearines to vs to repeate though not in you to vse tollerate and defend But all this geare must be swallowed vp This candle may not be lighted lest the people looke into the abhominable ingredients which you their antichristian Ministers giue them or rather sell them in the whore of Babilons Cupp to the destruction of their soules But you know some Ministers in the land which neither vse nor approue the Booke further then they are perswaded in conscience it is consonaut to Gods word But you know none that vse not the Booke You know neuer a Minister in this land which either is authorized by the state or standeth in puplique place which standeth nor vnder this Idoll or that hath throwne yt out by the power of the word or withdrawne the people from yt with al their preaching these 29 yeares but ioyne their Gospel to yt minister to that people that vse yt c. Neither can the conningest
funeral Sermons ouer for the deade You confesse a maner of visiting the sicke prescribed but you demande of vs where we haue seene it practized by or vrged at their handes which are able and diligent Pastors by these that haue the gouernment of your Church Wee answeare that it sufficeth to be commanded and prescribed by your seruice-booke vnto all your Ministers and Churches to the diligent obseruation wherof all ful Priestes are sworne Furder your Church-Wardens Sidemen are sworne to present all defaultes therin at the Arch-Deacons or Cōmissaries Courtes So that no marueyle though this booke be founde in the handes of the most diligent able Priestes reading yt ouer weomē at their Churching ouer the maried ouer the sicke ouer y e deade and where not And for Mr. Giffards satisfying we giue him to weite that as learned Priestes as he haue vsed this booke to the visitation of the sicke And nowe we would knowe of him whie these able Priestes should haue more libertie to pray by the the direction of the spirit for and with the sick according to their present estate thē they are allowed by those that ha●e the gouernment of your Church in the publique praiers of the whole Church according to the present estate therof To conclude we would knowe of him by what warrant in Gods worde the Church can prescribe enioyne such a forme of visiting c. As to their Absolution which Mr. Giffard so slilye would passe ouer without speakinh anie worde therof Let the Reader vnderstand that nothing can be more popish or blasphemous then yt is where a sacrilegious Priest taketh vpon him by the authoritie committed vnto him to absolue the sicke from all his sinnes Hath anie mortal man power to forgiue sinnes Or is it not the office of God alone Hath the Priest power to forgiue al sinnes such as are not made vnto him What horrible blasphemie is this To him that hath power to forgiue all sinnes to him we may make our prayers and supplications him only may we worship Hath the greatest Minister of the Church any more power to retaine or loose the sinne of the least member then the said member hath to bind or loose his sinne Doth not this rule of our Sauiour aswel extend vnto him as to the least in the Church If thie brother sinne against thee rebuke him and if he repent forgiue him Hath not the Church power to reproue and cast out their Pastor if he so deserue Is not al this binding loosing donne by the worde of God and not by anie power or excellencye of man Hath not the worde of God the like power and effect against sinne in the mouth of the least of Gods seruants as in y e mouth of the greatest Let this Collect then wherbie the Priest in their Leitourgie by the power committed vnto him absolueth the sick of al his sinnes remaine one witnesse amongst manie other of their Poperie and vntil more come of most high blasphemie Mr. GIFFARD taketh verie heinouslie at our handes this phrase of hous●ing with the Sacrament terming yt a false packing in vs and goeth about to purge his Church therof by shewing how yt denieth al y e wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrines of the Papists touching the Lordes Supper And also denieth that a man is of necessitie to receaue yt at his death Thus euer with his impertinent matters he vvith-draweth and shrinketh from the present question We must therfore still call him backe to the poynte and demaund of him what warrant in CHRISTS Testament their Church hath to institute a priuate Communion or to administer the Supper of the Lord in anie other place thē where y e church is assembled This if he can doe then indeed we haue faulted in caling yt an Housel But if he can shewe no warrant for this priuate domestical Communion then we must still blame this action as popish superstitious and irregular what doctrines soeuer they hold of the Lordes Supper besides Againe though they exhort and perswade the sick person that this Sacrament is not then of necessitie Yet if he be so superstitious to require it the Priest then is bownde of necessitie to deliuer yt him though there be no more to receaue then they two And what is this but to nourish superstition or to make the Sacrament so deliuered of great value proffit vnto them Thus iugleth toyeth your Church with the holy things of God at her pleasure THe Papistes you say that invented the Purgatorie had also their blasphemous diriges prayers for the deade But we are more then impudent in lying to terme the prayers which you vse at burials such seing your Church denieth the Purga●orie prayers for the dead c. We will not requite you with euil wordes but let the proofe of these matters declare who is a lyer and impudent We would therfore first knowe of you where you haue learned to make the burial of your deade an ecclesiasticall action part of the Pastors office and to make it an especial part of your worship if not of the POPE Then where you learned to burie in your Hallowed Churches and Church-yardes as though you had not fieldes and grounde to bury in with a special Dirige and leitourgie with praiers Singers Ringers Mourners Beades-mē c if not of the POPE It were too longe to shewe the originall and processe of this superstition with the great aduantage that cōmeth to the Priestes therbie It were needles also to shewe howe this your Leitourgie Dirige and prayers are fetched and peiced out of the POPES Portesse It were curious to relate the watching preparing arraying crossing dressing the corps to the graue also the array of the Mourners with all the superstition of the Heraldes the attyre of the Priestes aud Clarckes with their tymes and place when and vvhere to receaue vvhen to rest when to singe to reade to praye when and with what wordes to cast on the first shouel of earth by the hand of the Priest the graue being made easte and west c. Onely this in general we say that all these deuises seing God no where commandeth them in his worde are vayne superstitious and fond as whereby Gods name is highly taken in vayne prophaned and abused yea his holy spirit most impiouslie blasphemed despighted For whilest the whole land is of their Church and they bury all that dye in their Church of their natural death after this maner with this Leitourgie but such as dye of any violent death how christianly soeuer they vouchsalf not thus to burye pronouncing in the Collect they vse whilest earth is casting on that God in his mercy hath taken to himself the Soule of that their deare Brother or Sister departed they therbie iustifie the most wicked gracelesse impenitent vvretches Atheistes blasphemers Idolarours Papists Anabaptists Heretickes Coniurers that dye in their sinnes as though such could haue anie benefite
you here take my answere that vve deny these parrish assemblies to be true Churches or to haue anie power or aucthoritie to cast our any according to Christes ordinance so that wee cannot reason vvith you as to make the controuersie of open sinners in the Church but as a confused assemblie not being euer gathered vnto Christ or guyded by his ordiances We know that in the true Church are shalbe opē sinners yet ther are rules lawes by due censure to bring them to repentance or els to cast them out if they remaine obstinate in anie open grosse sinne of which things we wil not enter into discourse with you denijng you to haue eyther true Church or power to redresse abuses in your parrish assemblies And where he demandeth vvhat order of discipline wee haue obserued in our separation We haue learned that no other censures belong vnto the false Church then powring forth the vialls into the ayre waters sunne c. For this wee haue the direction and commandement of God Reuel 16. 18. 6. Againe where should we finde your Synod of Pastors in the whole tayle of the Dragon you haue no such order as you prate of vnskilfully your L. Arch-B or Ordinatie can teach you otherwise then plead for Synods of Pastors For anie Christiā or equal triall either in free conference by the Scriptures or triall by the cōmon law we haue vpon the dispence of our lyues long sued for it and cānot obtaine anie as vvee haue said and finde nothing but furor dolus tumulius amongst your broode Now after his former discour●e he will from poinct to poinct proue vs to agree with the Donatistes First saith he the Donatistes did accuse and condemne the Churche and ministerie of the Churches most falslie And I say saith he the Brownistes are as false accusers as they and condemne as iniustly in all crimes Here are bold and sore chardges but Mr. Giffards bare word wil not stand The Donatistes cause was not about the orderly gathering of a true Church but for the casting out of the vnworthie not about the office entrance or administration of the ministerie but about the sinnes of such as were in that office So that if Mr. Giffard would looke againe of the cause he should finde no cause to keepe this stirr as vpon a stage to no end or edifijng Wee haue often told him in our former writinges that our matter is not about offenders in the Church but about the beeing or not beeing a Church In the meane time he handsomly layeth vpon their owne filthines saying companies and swarmes of drunckardes gluttons whoremasters couetous worldlings greedie vsurers extortioners oppressours bribers defrauders lyers backbyters and sclanderers envious hateful and contentious persons swearers and cursers are suffred and admitted to the Lords Table this saith he in manie or in most of their parrish assemblies And many of their ministeri such Where admit them a Church in his owne cōceit let him ad now this more which is as true that they haue no power to redresse these euils by due censure for that they thus cōtynue after they haue bene long oftē reproued for this sacriledge and we are bold to pronoūce the Priest as the people a dēne of theiues a cage of vncleane spirits as the harlot that receiueth all commers cast together into Iesabels bed Hee further confesseth that the threatnings of the Prophets against Israel are due vnto them Whereby hee confesseth these assemblies not to be the Churches of God For all the Prophets that prophesied against Israel in the defection pronounce her not to be the Churche of God reade Hosea 1. 2. Ieremie 3. Ezechiell 23. But saith he might not the Donatistes haue pleaded that there were manie wicked people wicked Ministers in those Churches from which they separated We answere that is not questiō For first we denie you to haue anie Church orderly gathered vnto the ordinances worship gouernment of CHRIST which they did not And againe we haue not to reasō what they might haue excepted against those assemblies or ministers but what they made the cause of their separation wherein you trouble but your self and with odiouse names deceiue the ignorant to make anie shewe of agreement betwene our cause and theirs It wil be demanded saith he whither Cyprian the rest of the godly did worship together with those open sinners in their dayes ioyning with them in prayer and in the sacramentes c. No the question shalbe Mr. Giffard Whether if they did communicate with the open transgressions of the lawe in their time they did wel and lawfully therein or no for I trust you will graunt that the Church hath alwayes power to cast out the obstinate offenders reade then the ● of the 1 to the Corinth a litle more cōsideratly and tel vs whether they faulted not in keeping in their fellowship the incestious person and for not purging out the leauen from amongst them for what saith the text Now I write vnto you that you companie not together If anie that is called a brother be a fornicator or an Idolator or railer or a drunckard or an extortioner vvith such an one eate not Where the words me synanamignysthai be not together commingled and after vvith such an one eate not sheweth a plaine inhibition of communicating with the open prophane or impenitent offendors For where is this commixture or commixion if not in that holy banquet and coniunction in the communion and supper of the Lorde and if Mr. Giffard could discerne the spiritual things he might see the outward signes of bread and wyne to be tokens not only of our vnion with Christ and benefit of his death but also of our communion vvith the members of his bodye spiritually as the holy Ghost reasoneth saijng The cup of blessing vvich vvee blesse is yt not the communiō of the blood of CHRIST and the bread vvhich vve breake is it not the commanion of the bodie of CHRIST for vve that are manie are one bread and one bodie because 〈◊〉 are partakers of one bread For vs then to come together in this banquet and spiritual reioycing with the members of CHRIST to our iudgment we haue true comfort one with another But with the open prophane or obstinate open knowen transgressor ther cā be no good reioycing fellowship or communion for besides the vvicked Priest that presumptuouslye blesseth where God curseth and committeth sacriledge in delyuering the signe of Gods Couenant with his people in CHRIST to the treaders vnder their feete of his body and blood so the whole Congregation and euery one that participateth with those open wicked transgresse in not admonishing casting out the leauen against so manie rules as command admonition excommunication by due order and partake with y e wicked against God by their reioycing with them as bretheren But as I haue stil pleaded with you we know better order then blinde separation in pride for the sinnes
the hearing of the publick doctrine prayer of y e Church but to enter Cou●n●t or be receiued a member it is to be done by doctrine faith and repentance Neither did the kinges of Iuda compel the Priestes to receiue anie vncircumcised or Idolatours into y e fellowship of the Church Faith is the gift of God wrought by his Spirit word The Prince may cōpel to the meanes therevnto but not enforce faith The Donatistes resisted the Magistrate so far as they durst saith he and whē Iulian the Apostata shewed them fauour their circumcelliōs made reuel in companies walking with clubbes staues did spoile beate such as lighted in their hands c The impatient heare of Brow●istes is not vnknowen c. Let this lawlesse man shewe where euer anie of vs haue resisted the Magistrate or spokē euil of the ruler of the people or gone about to reuenge our selues by any violence or vnlawful meanes As for his prophesie what we would be if we had power it layeth open himself to be a malicious false Prophet to incitate the Magistrate with lying dreames Let him better consider and he shal find that this Antichristian Prelacie hath bene not only the procurers but shedders of much innocent blood vsurping ciuile power And how they haue behaued themselues towards their soueraigne Kings Princes let y e Records be searched in your Church are found dayly treasons bloodshed c and most plentifull in your mother Church of Rome This then is but the false report of Sanballat and Tobia to hinder Gods Temple Nowe admiring Mr. Giffards clearing of the Donatistes of errour affirming they differed not from the other Churches in doctrine as also manifest or al least protest our innocencie from these and all other errours in the perticular course handled or els where to be found I will set downe three or fower grosse errours before him which we detest in the Donatistes as That he which or deineth a Minister as it seemeth they allowed ordinatiō by one mā is the head of him ordeined yea the fountaine and the other the riuer therfore if the head be holy the other is therby made holy and so on the contrarie if the first be wicked That the conscience of him that gyueth may wash the conscience of him that receiueth That when hee which baptiseth is manifest a good man hee gyueth faith hee is the original the roote the head of him that is by Gods spirit renewed That those which are baptised by a wicked man though in a lawfull office ought to be baptised againe That it is lawfull in some respectes to kill themselues That the Magistrate cannot compel vs to that which is good That we haue free wil after regeneration I wil not now iustifie Mr. Giff. explaining of their mindes whether in these or anie other wee handled I take al in this matter from his record which I hope hee will not affirme to be false As for his learned Fathers how they haue wrasted the scriptures new Testament and old in more then twenty false expositions and flat contradictions of the scope of the whole Canon of the worde to iustifie opē iniquitie by slightes and tollerat it in the publicke assemblies with all their doctrines of separating in heart and not in bodye at comon meates and not at holy communion that all nations should be the apparant Church c wee leaue them al denying to enter controuersie with dead men wishing Mr. Giffard to spread such deceites in other mens names no more but to come orderly to some christian triall by the Booke of God In the meane tyme hee seeth wee neither hold of Donatistes nor of Augustine but followe faith in a pure conscience to our knowledge readie to be instructed wherein wee erre And when hee hath made such a lardge discourse to proue vs Anabaptistes Montanistes Arians Pelagians Nicolaitans c we shal in stead of conflicting with a beater of the ayre and vnconscionable sclanderous rayler demand the end and vse of his labours and nowe leaue him to his accompt for his defacing and blaspheming of the truth wishing all men to beware of such methodes of imposture I. G. FINIS A FEWE OBSERVATIONS OF Mr. GIFFARDS LAST CAVILLS ABOVT stinted read prayers and deuised Leitourgies HAving heretofore written an answere to Mr. George Giffards pretended defence of stinted read praiers deuised Leitourgies and since receiued an emptie replie wherin he doth nothing lesse thē yeild to any sound reason alledged but vngodlily cauilleth at and peruersly wrasteth the sence of so much as he toucheth I seeing no cause of further strife his former convinced to intermedle againe with perticular handling of his chaffe smoke his reasons in effect the same before answered haue only thought it my dutie to illustrate vnto the Readers some few brief poincts abused by him that they may the better be able to iudge of the former writings wherevnto with these few helpes following I refer the trial WHERAS I alledged out of the 8. to the Rom. and out of the 4. to the Galath that in the verie time action of our prai●ng to God the spirit of God was the only instructor and the only help no other help mentioned or that can be collected in the Scriptures Mr. GIFFARD hauing granted that reading prayer is not praying doth now answere that how soeuer the Scripture doth extol magnifie outward helpes meanes yet when they are compared with God which worketh all in all by them or when the scripture will set forth the efficacie worke to be his alone they are either not mentioned or els if they be mentioned so cast downe as if they were nothing God buyldeth his Church saith he by the ministerie of men yet Paul is said to plant Apollos to water but God to gyue the encrease 1 Corinth 3. and therfore to gather from those places Rom. 8. Galat. 4. that there neede or may be no outward help or meanes in the verie action and instant of praying is far awrye In which answere it euidently appeareth he is so bent to turne away all truth raise new strife as ther can be no expectation of agreement There is no sequence neither doth the Scripture alledged proue his owne reason so that nothing hangs togeather No man doubteth but that sometimes and in some places of Scripture the outward meanes of begetting and encreasing faith is only recited and sometimes the secret work of Gods spirit only sometimes both when yet they are not diuided but goe together and all of God both inward worke outward meanes though in way of cōparison I neuer so read but rather the one repeated for both For shal I say that whē the word of God preaching therof is ●hewed to be the power of God vnto saluation that the inward worke of the Spirit is therfore not mentioned because the other is of God thē both inward outward meanes being of God Gods owne worke